Western Standard - November 04, 2025


Campaign to Stop Independence Movement Accidentally Sets Referendum in Motion


Episode Stats


Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

178.0378

Word count

2,252

Sentence count

136

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

The Alberta Prosperity Group has enough signatures to trigger a referendum on independence from Canada. Is this a good or bad thing? And what does it mean for the future of Alberta as a sovereign country?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
00:00:00.000 All right. Well, speaking of fights in Alberta, we're headed to a referendum on independence.
00:00:08.920 I don't know how to say it otherwise. So this goes back. The Kennedy government brought in
00:00:17.020 Citizens Initiative legislation, had an extremely high bar to set on being able to get the signatures
00:00:23.220 to trigger it. It was unreasonably high. It's obviously theoretically possible to get it.
00:00:30.000 I didn't think these guys would do it. It appears prima facie, they have got the numbers.
00:00:36.100 So it's called Forever Canada. It's this group led by Thomas Lukasik. The media like to call him the
00:00:40.480 former progressive conservative premier of Alberta. And then they neglect that he's actually been an
00:00:45.260 NDP supporter provincially and a liberal supporter federally ever since. He was from the hard left
00:00:50.900 wing of the old progressive conservatives when that party was around. So he's never actually been a
00:00:56.860 united conservative member in Alberta. He's never been a member of the conservative party of Canada,
00:01:00.260 as far as I know, at least. But the media like to try and portray him as a conservative,
00:01:04.320 even though there's not a single conservative who would take ownership over this guy in Alberta.
00:01:09.760 So he wanted to preempt the independence movement from going out and triggering a referendum on
00:01:16.880 independence, which would have words that meet the Clarity Act requirements for a constitutionally
00:01:24.980 valid referendum. The wording that had been proposed by the Alberta Prosperity Group was
00:01:31.240 something to the effect of, should Alberta become an independent and sovereign country?
00:01:38.440 Something like that. And that should, I think, meet the Clarity Act definition. These guys wanted to
00:01:43.260 get, they wanted to frame the question differently. Should Alberta remain in Canada? I think,
00:01:48.820 is that the question or? Yeah, it is actually, you know, but still by asking Albertans whether the
00:01:55.960 province should remain in Canada is one step closer to being voted. So that would give them more
00:02:00.560 favorable wording, I guess. But the implication is if people then voted no to that, is that Albertans
00:02:09.300 then voting to become independent. So these guys have triggered, these guys went out and they've,
00:02:14.800 they've triggered a referendum, it seems on, on independence. Now it's not a hundred percent
00:02:19.940 sure yet. Uh, they have, they got over the threshold required for the number of signatures,
00:02:24.760 but these signatures now need to be validated and checked against eligible, uh, the eligible
00:02:29.100 voters list. So you, you need some margin of error. So it's possible that they actually fall short a bit
00:02:35.000 if, uh, if they don't have enough signatures that turn out to be valid, but prima facie, let's just say
00:02:41.260 they, they, they, they've got the signatures now. Uh, Corey, does that mean that the, the referendum
00:02:46.620 question that goes forward is exactly this one? Or I feel like regardless of what side you're on,
00:02:53.700 the question should be as neutrally worded as possible. Like if you want independence,
00:02:57.480 the question should not be, should, you know, the kick-ass land of the free Alberta be the coolest,
00:03:05.840 richest, most amazing country in the world and leave those dirtbag freeloaders of Canada?
00:03:12.260 You can't, that's not a fair question. Um, you know, I, I, I, a fair question here should be,
00:03:17.140 you know, if you wanted to word it from their side, should Alberta remain in Canada or should
00:03:23.020 Alberta become an independent country? I think that would be a very, that'd be fair. And I'd still
00:03:28.620 ask the question with the yes on their side, the no, the no on the independent side. Um, is there
00:03:34.060 any opportunity, like, is the question as is, is that it or no, it's no. It has to go to the
00:03:39.560 legislature and that's where the referendum, if it were to be called, gets called and they can
00:03:44.660 rejig the framing of the question. So if they're staying true to the question, I mean, if they,
00:03:49.500 you know, made it a question about something completely unrelated, that would be violating
00:03:54.260 the basis of the thing, but they could change it to, uh, you know, should Alberta become an
00:03:59.700 independent province? It's the same question. It's just asking a different way, uh, which would put
00:04:04.620 it into the more positive yes end of it, but it's still a referendum on independence. The other thing
00:04:09.080 is too, it seems like Lukasik's already backtracking a bit. He's saying, no, no, no, no, I, this, I wasn't
00:04:13.120 trying to trigger a referendum. We're, we're trying to just have the question go to the legislature, but
00:04:18.020 his own initial paperwork says, no, you're going for a referendum. Hold on. Let's play that clip
00:04:22.740 from Danielle Smith at the press conference where, uh, okay, just roll. I don't want this
00:04:27.600 operates. Um, Mr. Lukasik's vote is, um, uh, yes, no question. It is a separatist referendum. He may
00:04:35.340 be trying to characterize it differently, but if you ask people, if you want to remain in Alberta,
00:04:40.080 yes or no, there are implications if people answer no. Okay. So, so Danielle Smith says, uh,
00:04:46.080 all right, thanks for coming out, Tom. Uh, you just triggered an independence referendum.
00:04:49.520 He's like, no, that's not what I'm meant to do. He's like, well, that's what you did do.
00:04:54.240 Yeah. And then, hey, you know, the father of Alberta independence found his father of
00:04:58.920 Alberta's Republic, Thomas Lukasik. Well, I mean, to the credit, you know, that was quite an effort.
00:05:05.160 400 some thousand. They did more than I would imagine. That was a sign of good organization,
00:05:09.620 but it comes right down to careful what you wish for Fabio, because you just got it. And, uh,
00:05:15.000 the campaign will begin, uh, sometime next year. Yeah. Uh, at least, uh, I, I don't know how much,
00:05:20.640 you know, this, this, this clown or not, but, uh, I do. Okay. I didn't think they could do it. Uh,
00:05:26.900 I, I, at some point, someone's going to check the tape to when this started. And I was like,
00:05:32.340 you know, Bob's my uncle, if they can actually get the signatures, because it credit where it's due.
00:05:37.440 That's a lot of signatures to get. And it may or may not be valid after they verify every single
00:05:42.260 name on the voters list. They've hired like a ton of staff to go through it. Um, but yeah, um,
00:05:47.680 we, we've got this guy here, who's just on the side of every single left-wing cause. He never
00:05:54.180 appears on the conservative side of anything, but the media can try to portray him as a conservative
00:05:57.780 because he was a progressive conservative under Alison Redford. That's like saying I was a moderate
00:06:02.060 in the Bolshevists at some point, you know? Um, uh, but yeah, uh, I, I don't know, just your
00:06:09.100 reaction that we've got a hardline left-wing federalist in Alberta who just seems to have
00:06:14.940 woken up to the realization that his referendum is a referendum on independence.
00:06:21.100 I, this was what I never understood about him. I mean, I understand that he's a, um,
00:06:26.860 Edmonton coattail rider. So that's how he was in the PCs. He knew he could win. Um, and you know,
00:06:33.340 he's from Edmonton. Um, but you know, I, that's what I never understood about him. And I, I don't
00:06:39.500 tangle with him because there's no point, there's no point in calling him out on Twitter, but it was
00:06:44.620 very obvious to many of us conservatives in BC. And I think, uh, federally as well that it seemed
00:06:49.660 counterintuitive. But as I said to one former wild rose MLA, uh, Nate, did he need a job? And he didn't
00:06:58.860 seem to think so because he has a whopping pension, um, from his time at the Alberta legislature. So
00:07:05.420 I didn't understand it. And I didn't understand that he didn't understand it.
00:07:09.980 No, uh, Alberta MLA's, uh, haven't had a pension since 1993.
00:07:13.980 Oh, there were something called transition allowances that were brought in.
00:07:17.260 That's what I'm talking about. Yeah.
00:07:20.940 They're, they're a temporary thing. It's not like a lifetime pension the way, say,
00:07:24.540 members of the federal parliament. It's not quite the same system.
00:07:28.300 Yeah. I, we were speculating on what he did with that money and it doesn't matter. It's his money.
00:07:33.500 It's his business, but it seemed really like make a job for him. And then when you were,
00:07:38.620 I was inundated with his Instagram posts and I don't know why this is showing up in my feed,
00:07:43.260 but I thought it was just so creepy. I mean, he did the bedroom files from his RV, uh, you know,
00:07:49.340 and PJs with his hand on his, you know, with his legs kicking up at the back. And I just thought,
00:07:54.380 this is a sexual harassment case waiting to happen. Uh, you know, I could not unsee Fabio
00:08:03.020 lay in there. Uh, you know what I'm talking about? Like, you know, Oh, and I, I just felt
00:08:10.060 like he needed something. And I just thought, you know, his wife was once a respected CTV news anchor.
00:08:15.260 And I thought, is she even in the picture anymore? Because a good wife would just literally take the, 1.00
00:08:19.820 you know, the, the cane and pull him off the stage. Um, because he's made, he's,
00:08:24.700 he's so foolish and so embarrassing, but you know, there are Albertans that really believe in staying
00:08:30.940 in the, in the knitted into Canada. But I think we also, and I'm sure you guys would agree. There are,
00:08:36.780 are Alberta Albertans that do support staying, but there are, it's conditional. It's not,
00:08:42.860 hey, the relationship is awesome. Let's throw a party. If we win, it's, it's not about that.
00:08:47.660 But all of us were sort of waiting for, for Thomas to understand his own punchline to all of this,
00:08:53.980 that you're going to trigger a referendum. Uh, but again, I think just as it always is with Thomas,
00:08:59.340 it's about his own bank account, his own image, his own social media and building out what you might
00:09:05.260 be further contracts or opportunities to show his mug off. Yeah. Uh, look, I, I don't know what
00:09:11.660 the guy does for money, but, uh, as far as I could tell, the guy doesn't really appear to have had
00:09:16.860 much in the way of gainful employment since he, uh, lost in, you know, since he was done from cabinet
00:09:24.380 when Alice Redford went down and then lost his seat in 2015. Uh, he does not appear to have done
00:09:30.940 anything other than like rant against conservatives on Twitter since, I guess, a decade now. It's been
00:09:37.580 a decade for God's sakes. Well, he was a menacing caucus. He was a menacing caucus too.
00:09:43.340 Yeah. I know in the caucus, like the guy, um, he's, I don't know. I think he saw this as his
00:09:48.380 way of trying to be relevant again. Now I do. I, I don't doubt that the guy's a hardline
00:09:55.420 federalist that he believes he's actually believes in what he's doing, but I mean, it was a way of,
00:09:59.500 uh, I don't know. I think most people, setting himself up. Yeah. Most people who are out of
00:10:05.660 politics want back in the main reason I don't want back in is because I get my fill of politics
00:10:10.940 doing what I'm doing and I don't have to deal with most of the bullshit of actually being in politics.
00:10:14.860 Fabio hasn't been relevant in any way. He's just got like, you know, he just gets a tweet into the
00:10:21.180 dark and it doesn't lead to anything. Um, I don't know, but maybe he tries to see this as an on-ramp
00:10:28.060 to become a part of the NDP caucus at some point. I don't know. Uh, but, uh, the, the end of the day,
00:10:34.460 Nigel, uh, captain, uh, Canada here has, I mean, are, are we going to erect a statue one day to, uh,
00:10:44.300 general Fabio as you know, our George Washington who led us to independence?
00:10:51.660 You know, we opened the program talking about Doug Ford and what a windbag he was.
00:10:58.780 That was my phrase, not yours, but I think there was a consensus leading that way that, uh, he swung,
00:11:05.340 he missed and you ask, why does he do it? And the answer is it puts him in the headlines.
00:11:13.100 The news media are generally favorable to those kinds of gestures.
00:11:18.220 And as we get into the last minutes of the program, bless my soul, we find ourselves talking
00:11:24.940 about Mr. Lukasik who is also making these wild, uh, patriotic gestures. Um, as Derek said, I dare say
00:11:36.780 he believes in what he is doing, but do you know, the common thing between Ford and Lukasik and so
00:11:45.260 many other people who have yet to be in the headlines, they don't have any solutions. You know, you can make
00:11:51.980 a little tiny fest and wave it and, uh, say I'm proud to be Canadian and I want to, you know, I will,
00:11:59.820 Alberta will stay and we got to stand up to the United States. How? In what way exactly do you want
00:12:06.780 us to do that? And you contrast that with genuine conservatives and our own premier would be obviously
00:12:13.580 in Alberta, the one to call them on, who actually have ideas and are driving ideas that change things
00:12:21.100 and will make Canada a better place. So I have to wonder why Mr. Lukasik gets the ink he does.