Canada Cannot Be Fixed
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Summary
In this episode of the podcast, I am joined by two of my good friends, Dr. Michael Brown and Dr. Ted Byfield, to discuss their new book, "Time to Leave: The Case for Alberta Separating from Canada."
Transcript
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Thanks for coming on to join me today, Michael.
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Okay, great, because I didn't know if I needed a headset.
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And as I was saying, with the gridlock going on in Parliament right now,
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kind of shows a little bit of that with the system being broken,
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And your other book, I mean, this is a really nice look,
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But Canada, Standing on Guard for the, a really nice looking book.
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So with the time to leave, I mean, you've written, I'll let you explain it.
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You've written on independence and sort of implied that it's time to leave for a while anyways.
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What's new in this one to make the case a little better to people?
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Yeah, well, I wrote my book, No Other Option in 2021,
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I got written a history of the Alberta independence movement in 2009 called Alberta Separatism Then and Now.
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But that wasn't an advocacy book so much, at least not explicitly, more subtly.
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So in 2021, I wrote No Other Option to make the explicit case for Alberta independence.
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But so many people would say to me, you know, Alberta should become independent.
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And after we've tried to reform Canada, if that doesn't work, then we'll try to become independent.
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But for me, that was a frustrating argument because so much of our history for the last 40 or 50 years
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And so, you know, I wasn't expecting to write another book advocating Alberta independence.
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But I really had to counter the argument that we still need to try to reform Canada
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because there are many things I talk about in Time to Leave in more detail than in No Other Option
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And like the two biggest ways in which we tried to do that was, you know, number one, the Reform Party
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And we started on Senate reform, you know, in the late by late 1970s.
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So there are things we worked on for that many good Albertans worked on for many, many years.
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And so I'm saying, you know, we have tried to reform Canada.
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And since none of these efforts we've tried over the decades have worked,
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we really have to go now for the independence referendum.
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That's the only thing we have left that we haven't tried.
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And, you know, when I talk about Senate reform and the Reform Party,
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Like, it's not a matter of we can do these again and do better.
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We had the very best people, you know, in the Reform Party and advocating Senate reform.
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And if our very best people cannot achieve it, you know, doing their very best,
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then, you know, those are not viable options for us.
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And as you mentioned earlier, you know, it's a system that's broken.
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And Central Canada benefits from the system, so they do not want it reformed.
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And so our only, the only thing we have left now is the independence referendum.
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And so Time to Leave is different from No Other Option in the sense that it really focuses
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specifically on, you know, showing how we've tried so many things that haven't worked.
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And so, you know, all these books cover the same time period in a sense,
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because, you know, from the 1970s up until now.
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But they're not covering, they're using, there's different information.
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So you're not, if you buy one of the, two of the books, you're not getting the duplicated
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No, and I understood that, you know, in reading it, but I figured it best for you to explain
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that so people don't realize you didn't just slap a new cover on an old book and sell it
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There's something different and a different approach to things in the new ones.
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And then I saw you recently at the Ted Byfield event in Edmonton.
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And of course, you know, he was an amazing Albertan and, you know, he came from elsewhere
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And a little while ago, I read actually Ted Byfield, one of his books.
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And it reminded me once I read your, you know, standing on guard for V on the unapologetic
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social, conservative, and Christian stance, which is fine.
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And I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that.
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Not so much on the, I mean, we will talk a bit about the content of your book, but you
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see where somebody like myself, I'm very much not on the socially conservative side
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or, or, or a person of faith, but we have a big commonality in supporting individual
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And that's how we can sit in the same room and, and respect each other.
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And, and if we could fix the system, that's how we could all be satisfied.
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And, you know, for me, you know, I write about, um, as you mentioned that, that book
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that's being redone, that's about, um, Christian political activism.
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And one of the main people in that, like, there's three key people I identify in that.
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And then when I write about Alberta independence topics, very often the key person again is
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Like he, he really, um, brings together both of those elements, but yeah, I mean, uh, like,
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well, there's a, there's a term I've used in, in one of my other books that I call
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by field conservatism and by field conservatism is, you know, there's three principles to it.
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One is free enterprise economics, you kind of libertarian side of things.
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Uh, one is, um, you know, defense of Western regional interests.
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And one is, uh, defense of, you know, social conservative ideas like traditional morality.
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But, you know, so those are kind of the bedrock ideas of what I call by field conservatism,
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But yeah, there, there is so much in common in terms of the individual freedom thing,
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And, and, you know, that's why, you know, say a party like the UCP has elements of both
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and they can work together, you know, um, in terms of, uh, like opposing the NDP.
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And I mean, I think that the common enemy we always have is authoritarianism, whether it's
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right or left, if it's too far, then, then we can't stay in the room.
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I saw just today, yet another one of those common type of court challenges there's down
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I guess somebody had demanded, uh, I think it was in Colorado, a trans cake, a cake, you
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know, uh, to celebrate, uh, his transition to a new gender.
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Can you not just say this is a grown adult and, and he or she can transition to whatever
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the heck they please and go with what they will.
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And if they don't want to provide this, go to another bakery.
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Like it should be that simple, but the far end on both sides are saying, well, you shouldn't
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And the other side is saying you shouldn't be allowed to do that as an independent business
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Like, I think that's an important point you make there because, you know, a lot of the,
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um, elements of, I would turn broadly the sexual revolution in this particular, you know,
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say the gay rights element, a lot of it was originally proposed as a libertarian idea.
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Let people live their lives as they want and do what they want.
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And there's, and that gets support because that makes so much sense to so many people.
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But you have the examples, like you brought up, here's a Christian businessman who does
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not want to participate in certain, uh, you know, baking a cake for certain activities
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Like once they realize that he won't, you know, a number of, he's got a number of these
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cases that have happened because people go directly to him deliberately to cause him
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trouble because they want to force him to embrace their, their way of, of doing things.
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Now, if they would like back off from that and say, well, he's, he's got his views.
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You know, uh, we'd have a lot more peace in society.
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If, if people were that way, you know, that that's the original libertarian thing.
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You know, that does provide a good basis, but, um, but it's so hard for many people to
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accept that, you know, when they see someone who doesn't agree with them, they want to,
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for some reason or other take action to, to shut that down or to force some kind of conformity.
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And, you know, we see a lot of the right now because the progressives are, are, are in power
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Like we saw that with the NDP and the Christian schools, you know, if, uh, uh, uh, Rachel
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Notley's government was going to shut down some Christian schools because they were unwilling
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And if it wasn't for Jason Kenney being elected in 2019, you know, that would have gone ahead.
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And it's, it's because, you know, the progressives and probably people on the right too, to some
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degree have this thing that you must live according to what I believe.
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And if you don't, then the government's going to make you do it.
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You know what I mean? So, so that libertarian idealist is so much better in the sense of
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allowing people just to live their own lives and not interfere with what other people are
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Well, yeah. And school choice. I mean, it's such an integral part of the whole thing, because
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I think that's where a lot of people, they have their different views. They want their
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children educated with values that they share. And, and right now they're not leaving the
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public system to be a generic, then reading, writing, and arithmetic institution. They're
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putting in woke values into these institutions that a lot of parents differ with. People should
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have the choice then to put their children into a different place. And that shouldn't
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be controversial. Uh, but it is unfortunately. I mean, you know, what's wrong with a Christian
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school? If you don't like it, don't go there. But, uh, do, do you talk? I don't believe so.
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But I mean, you know, a voucher system, these are the things we could explore with a new system.
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Like we could really bring about some things where we can allow those freedoms and choice.
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Yeah. Well, actually, uh, this is one of the areas of lots of interest to me, even though
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it's not in the standing on guard for the book, um, the idea of education, because my wife
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and I, we've home educated right from the very beginning. Like we we've been firmly in that.
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And so in graduate school, actually my kind of my area of expertise was on, on school choice
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in Alberta to some degree. So this is a very important issue. You know, the progressives
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like to talk about diversity, but then when it comes to school, it's one size fits all.
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And the, the ideas that you're talking about educational choice, that is genuine diversity.
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You know, you've got your public schools, charter schools, which are kind of public schools, different
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kinds of independent schools, home education. The more options people have is the more genuine
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diversity you have. And the more you actually, um, serve the needs of the people. Like there's
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different kinds of families with different views. And, um, when you have this kind of educational
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choice, like a vast amount of educational choice that serves the families where they're at. If they
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want to go to public school, there's probably one right down the road. If they want a more
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specialized charter school, maybe they can find one, especially if they're in a big city, you know,
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if there, if there's a kind of private school that they want, there's, there's lots of different
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kinds of ones, uh, you know, in Alberta, you know, partially depends on where you live and things
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like that. And then home education, you can do that in any part of the province. And then even within
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home education, um, there's like, there's different degrees to which you can, you can follow the
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government curriculum, or you can follow a different curriculum, or you can do what some
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people call unschooling, where you just kind of let the children, you know, follow their own
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interests into whichever degree, but, but there's so much like, this is a real libertarian, uh, success
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story, educational choice, that people can choose what's best for their family, for their children.
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And they don't even have to choose one and stick with it. You know, if they can try something,
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it's not working for their kids. Like a lot of people in home education, you know, first sent their
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kids to school and the school didn't work for them. And so they can bring this child home and work with
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the child home. Like there's just so much opportunity there. And so, and the more freedom
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there is, the more genuine diversity there is, and the better the needs of the families and children
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are served. Well, absolutely. I mean, one of the areas getting outside of the social conflict and
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things like that is different children's do respond differently to different types of education.
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Some kids are really well geared for a hands-on. They could be a fantastic mechanic or, uh, you know,
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or a trades person or something like that. But in the public school, they treat that as if it's
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not a decent trade or they say, that's where we stick the troublesome kids. Well, no, actually.
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And, and perhaps if those children were put into the schools that they're better, uh, accustomed to,
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they could be even better mechanics, even better, uh, electricians and such, and they'll do very well
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for themselves. But you need to give that choice to apply to the different kids. As you said, we're,
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we're trying to stuff everybody into the same bowl and it's harming all of them.
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Yeah. And, you know, just as an example of that, and this is something I think I've experienced in my own
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life is like boys in particular develop a little bit slower than girls do, uh, you know, academically.
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And some boys at certain ages, you know, are not ready to read. Like in, we think in education,
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well, at a certain age, every child should be reading at a certain level. You know what I mean?
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But some boys develop slower. And, and like, I think I was that way. Cause I remember in grade two,
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I was taken out of class to read with some new Canadian children. I was probably wasn't very good.
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So when I was, I was forced to learn to read too early. And so boys that are forced to read too
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early, learn that reading is hard. That's one of the messages they get. And they learn that they
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don't like reading. You know what I mean? And later on reading became one of my favorite things,
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but, but for many years I didn't like reading. And I think it was because it was pushed on me too early.
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You know what I mean? I wasn't quite ready for it. And I think that's true for many boys. You know,
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I've heard that before, well, this boy, he's, he's not reading up to his level and you want to shove it down his
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throat and he's not going to like reading if you do that. You know what I mean? Or if you let them
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develop at their own level, when they're ready, uh, then they, then they will like it because
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they're ready for it. And there's few gifts better than literacy. Um, I'll kind of start closing to a
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good question from one of the commenters. It kind of puts you on the spot. Maybe you don't have to come
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up with all five, but it's a good question. Peter LaFontaine, you know, taking it back towards the
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independence front, uh, saying, can, can your guests list five key policies that most Albertans would want and
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agree on? And, uh, you know, kind of then what we don't have though, without the separation,
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like what are we being held up from then in the current system?
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Well, I think that like the number one thing would be economic development that we could do on our own.
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Um, you know, the climate change policies, sorry, climate change policies of the Trudeau government,
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you know, hamper our economic development. So, um, I think Albertans would, uh, agree for the most
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part on the need for, um, having a robust development of our natural resources, especially
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our energy resources. And I think we could do much better independently than under Justin Trudeau
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and the Canadian government. Um, I don't know if I can do five. Uh, I mean, I just, I present,
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I just present independence as an independent Alberta Albertans get to decide our future.
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You know what I mean? Like right now, the way system, the system is, um, people essentially,
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you know, generally speaking in Ontario and Quebec, they elect the government and they decide what,
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what is best for Alberta, you know, in terms of the federal responsibilities. And so they make
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these kinds of policies like climate change or, you know, uh, trying to restrict, uh, freedom of
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expression on the internet. And I could, you know, if I had time, I could probably think of others.
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And these are not policies favored by Albertans. These are favored by people I say in Toronto and
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Montreal where, you know, so many of the votes come from that, uh, elect the government there.
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So if we had our own government here in Alberta, the people who run the province, uh, would govern
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the province in accordance with the desires of Albertans and not in accordance with the desires
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of people in Toronto and Montreal. Like they'd have to, we would be electing our own leaders and
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our own leaders would do what we want or else we'd get rid of them right now as it is. Um, we hope that
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Justin Trudeau will lose the election, uh, next year, but it's not up to us. Like we were always voting
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against them anyway. It's up to people in Ontario and Quebec to put them up. But so our destiny is
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outside of our own control. Like this is a democracy. We're supposed to be able to elect the people
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that, you know, make these decisions for us and our own destinies in our own control. That is only
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possible for an independent country because right now our destiny is controlled by people who are
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elected in, you know, Toronto and Montreal, Ottawa, that kind of area for the most part.
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Yeah. And I mean, just, it's just that localized decision making it alone. I mean, then we could,
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we could spend a lot of time talking about the different individual policies. The main thing is that using
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independence as a catalyst to be able to rebuild that system. Um, so yeah, the time went quickly
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and before I let you go, you know, these are the books, where can folks get out and get their copies
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and guys, it's worth it. Michael's writing is great. Okay. Well, they're, they're going to be
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available on Amazon. There's actually pages for them on Amazon. They standing on guard for the,
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you can pre-order it already. It's being released in January 1st, uh, time to leave. Um, if there's a page
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for it on Amazon, like Kindle's available, but for some reason, Amazon is dragging its feet on getting the paper
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copies available, but at some point, Amazon should have them there hopefully soon. Also,
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there's a local Alberta business. It's called merchant ship, but their website is merchant ship.ca.
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They will be carrying both books. Uh, hopefully they'll soon have time to leave available there.
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Cause I know they have copies. They just haven't had time to put it up on their website yet.
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Excellent. Well, I, I appreciate you coming in to talk again. It's been a while and, uh, I, yeah,
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I appreciate the writing and I hope folks rush out and get those. So, uh, thanks again, Michael,
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Michael and I I'm sure we'll talk again soon. Thanks for having me. It's been great to talk to you.