00:00:00.000What is the difference between Canada and the United States? That question defies an adequate
00:00:05.320response. We look alike, we generally have similar ethics and democratic philosophies,
00:00:11.160and for English Canada, we even sound alike. We will show that there is a profound difference
00:00:17.140and that that is a quiet source of pride for Canadians. That difference is rooted in our
00:00:22.620original divergence through our constitutional structure, but it's being diminished by our
00:00:27.940adoption of an American-style constitution. Our source of pride is also our greatest weakness.
00:00:33.940Hi, I'm Natalie St. Hilaire. This is Randy Royer, and this is a nation of people.
00:00:57.940Here we are, as Canadians, in the midst of a trade war with a neighbour that many of us had considered our closest friend.
00:01:05.760How are we different? What are we fighting for? What are our mistakes? And how do we fix them?
00:01:12.980Alright Randy, let's start from the very beginning. What makes Canadians and Americans different?0.99
00:01:17.720Well, let's start it before contact, where there's two continents, Europe and North America.
00:01:23.280In North America, the Indigenous call that, to this day, Turtle Island.
00:01:27.440and they had a completely different worldview because there was no relationship than the
00:01:32.720Europeans. So Europe was built off of the Holy Roman Empire, which was a top-down oligarchy,
00:01:39.720then came the divine right of kings, and it was all of a top-down structure. The sovereignty was
00:01:45.840at the top, and individuals were ruled by their sovereign and ruled by the church. In North0.72
00:01:51.980America, they didn't have any of those institutions. They hadn't invented them. So they had sovereignty
00:01:56.280of the individual. And so it was effectively self-sovereignty. And their governance was
00:02:05.140bottom-up. And it was all short-term. And it was all at the behest and benefit of what they would
00:02:11.260call the membership of their tribe. And so it was a very different way of looking at things. In fact,
00:02:16.660quite the almost opposite ends. Well, that doesn't describe everything. I mean, it certainly doesn't
00:02:22.440bring us up to date. But was that the entirety of the New World, as they called it?
00:02:26.280no that was uh south america was very different um so uh south america first the indigenous were
00:02:32.280different they had developed differently they had top-down uh structure and they had complex
00:02:37.000societies that were you know massive population so they and the indigenous themselves were different
00:02:42.280than turtle island and uh when the europeans came over frankly the the british and the northern
00:02:48.760europeans sent farmers to north america and the spanish and portuguese sent conquistadors to
00:02:55.800south america so that created a very different dynamic where it exists to this day that much of
00:03:02.280the ruling elite in you know mexico and south is all about sort of that conquistador attitude
00:03:09.240how do i gain from pillaging the land and pillaging the people and so that's why they're
00:03:15.000sort of a little less advanced advanced in terms of economics and what have you whereas in the north
00:03:20.040they built communities and uh and they became part of communities so totally different story
00:03:25.240we're only talking about you know turtle island north america okay so turtle island refers to
00:03:29.800north america just to be clear for those of us that um yeah if you look at it it kind of looks
00:03:34.200like a turtle okay so like how did they figure that out yeah but you know it's how did they
00:03:39.080figure that out no nobody knows but okay you know they certainly didn't have a high elevation view
00:03:43.640of the of north america but it actually does look like turtle island notwithstanding all that when
00:03:48.360did canada and the u.s really diverge in terms of you know their sensibilities because i'm
00:03:54.520imagining that we're the europeans are coming in and exploring this area and encountering different
00:04:01.240indigenous groups and developing communities in the way that it happened so when was the split
00:04:05.160what precipitated the split between what we now call canada and america um it all happened sort
00:04:10.920of 1763 to 1776 in in that time period and precisely what happened was uh the 13 american
00:04:21.160colonies were getting more you know king charles and all that stuff charles ii i believe uh you
00:04:26.760know they were getting more and more distant from the royal crown and um and specifically i mark it
00:04:33.000as the declaration of 1763 where the the royal crown and through the government um declared that
00:04:41.400the indigenous had self-sovereignty and then in 1774 in the quebec act um declared that the uh
00:04:48.600that french canadians had self-sovereignty and the americans viewed those as intolerant
00:04:56.520provocations they call them the intolerant acts and so they and part of the 17th sorry 1764 quebec
00:05:05.160act was that much of ohio was designated as part of quebec but uh indigenous land the americans
00:05:13.560were very upset that the french had rights uh they uh they didn't think that was right and
00:05:18.520they didn't want to see indigenous have rights they ultimately at that time called the indigenous
00:05:23.400they determined them to be aliens even though they were on their own land and and treated
00:05:29.000them as aliens so the u.s in 1776 created a constitution canada had no codified constitution
00:05:39.720and that's really the point of demarcation okay so what's the what's important about
00:05:46.040those constitutional acts or specifically the constitutional act in the united states
00:05:50.600how did that make us significantly different and you know what evolved out of that the the basic
00:05:58.600difference was that in a codified constitution you create a rules-based society so that's
00:06:06.280That's very different than what we had, which in, without a codified constitution, we had a rules, sorry, a principles, principle-based society.
00:06:17.740So that's the, that's the primary demarcation.
00:06:21.160The Americans went to a constitution and they said, here's the rules, here's how we must act.
00:06:26.460And Canada said, and Canada through the British said, well, here's our principles, conduct yourself according to those principles.
00:06:33.540I see. It seems like principles are a deeper way of understanding the world than rules, because there's sort of like a why inside of a principle versus just a you may do this, you may not do that. Seems to me that way. But how did that end up playing out?
00:06:48.320Well, the rules-based approach is very rigid, and it has harsh enforcement.
00:06:56.720It leads to excess lawsuits, harsh penalization, and even heavy enforcement, whereas the principle
00:07:06.280base gives you an approach that it's situational.
00:07:10.980It's what was actually happening on the time, and given our principles, what was the right
00:07:16.280And so there's guidance in terms of laws, but there's also a latitude as to which way you go.
00:07:21.980So the enforcement is really put on the individuals to enforce it upon themselves rather than a third party police force or army or something like that.
00:07:34.840The Canadian system relied on individuals to police themselves and to live within the principles of what we what we had.
00:07:42.100I mean, given that Canadians have such a difficult time with their identity, and I mean, this is definitely something I think that it's at the forefront of a lot of conversations right now is like, what does it mean to be Canadian when we're not just not being Americans?
00:07:57.180and you know there is a definite difference in the in in the principles-based approach versus
00:08:03.820a rules-based approach but like how do we see that playing out in terms of our identity as a
00:08:08.860people because i think that's really what what most people are well it's a huge topic i know
00:08:14.040amongst a lot of my friends yeah well um the answer to me is in in one particular survey
00:08:20.120and i think it was uh it was pew research that did the survey and they found that they asked the
00:08:25.020question uh do you do you view your fellow citizens as moral or amoral you know good or bad
00:08:33.260and uh 50 let's see was 53 percent of americans said that they view their fellow citizens as
00:08:41.580fundamentally morally bad 53 percent a 48 reciprocal said that they were good in canada
00:08:50.220same question was asked and in canada 92 percent 92 percent of canadians felt that their fellow
00:08:58.860citizens were fundamentally good seven percent said that they were bad so to me that is the
00:09:06.060difference between a rules-based approach versus a rule-based society with strict enforcement
00:09:14.860strict laws and all that stuff versus a principle base people you just trust people more because you
00:09:21.740know they're acting on the same set of principles that you are so 92 versus 7 in canada for 53
00:09:30.940versus 42 and or 40 uh 40 46 in in united states yeah so just to restate that and to get really
00:09:38.220clear on it because that's like a significant difference cultural difference between canadians
00:09:43.020and americans and i don't really know that before i heard this study i was aware of any so it's
00:09:48.940about half of americans think their neighbors are morally bad versus over 90 percent of canadians
00:09:56.740would say our neighbors are good people like in general we believe other people to be good people
00:10:01.980um you know and there's all sorts of downstream effects from those beliefs i would say but that's
00:10:07.400like a that's a really serious cultural difference in attitude and it's interesting how you've drawn
00:10:14.680it back to our fundamental documents like the constitution which just goes to show how important
00:10:20.040these documents are but okay so that's like a cultural belief it's shown up in the data
00:10:24.620now how is that reflected at the individual level well the americans then are very highly
00:10:31.300compliance oriented uh they're you know they're divided uh which is i've always said in these
00:10:38.040episodes that the constitution drives you to division well this is why it drives you to
00:10:42.560division it makes it's rule-based and you can basically go right up to that line of the rule
00:10:48.220and do whatever you want there's no there's no there's no uh stopping you from doing that whereas
00:10:52.720in canada we're principle based so you got to be principled yeah and and so that's the difference
00:10:57.940it's more litigious and and the ethics are defined by legality not by our principles but by the word
00:11:06.480of the law so it's it's completely different and and it's all governed by penalties and of course
00:11:13.140it's the state that hires the policeman hires the lawyers hires the judge so it's the state that
00:11:18.920actually defines what that line of morality is and again we've talked about that in the past
00:11:24.580But this is how it happened. This is the consequence of the principle-based versus rules-based.
00:11:31.780And in Canada, you know, we're integrity-based.
00:11:35.200And so we govern our own actions and we rely, and we don't rely strictly on enforcement.
00:11:45.000And so the net part of the result is also that we have traditionally had a higher degree of belief in the morality of the people making decisions in government, in the bureaucracy, or what we call the civil service before 1982.
00:12:10.960Now, then in 1982, we switched teams, and we got rid of that principle-based attitudes, and we went to strict enforcement, constitutional, and the Constitution tries to make us American.
00:12:26.100And this is what I voted against in 1982 when I voted against the Constitution.
00:12:32.680I didn't want us to lose the concept of principle-based society.
00:12:37.560and and now we've been relatively resilient and and we have resisted it but the constitution
00:12:45.740still drives us towards the way the americans think yeah it's occurring to me as a little bit
00:12:50.720of a paradox because just to sort of restate or just reaffirm what you're saying is you're talking
00:12:55.280about the difference from a system where the rules or the morality is externally defined
00:13:01.960versus something where it's internally or intrinsically defined. So integrity or
00:13:08.040principles would be intrinsic to me and rules are extrinsic to me. They are externally defined by
00:13:13.920the state. But the paradox is that what you're saying is because when something's internally
00:13:19.240defined by me and I believe that, you know, the bureaucrats or the government is also run by
00:13:24.060people that have that internal integrity, I tend to trust it more. Yes. Yeah. Well, and there's
00:13:30.960there's two points here that i want to make and one is that that goes right down to our own
00:13:35.300individual morality so for example in the united states extramarital affairs well 90 percent of
00:13:41.540americans say that that is against the rigid rule that we have uh and on the flip side canadians say
00:13:48.240well and like 76 say that that means that it's immoral it's because we we put it in the context
00:13:54.640of what's going on and we say as long as so the same applies to like homosexuality which is
00:14:00.26039% of Americans say if you go over that line that's wrong whereas only 13% of
00:14:06.860Canadians view that as as as actually wrong again we put it in context the
00:14:12.820other thing that I really want to bring up here is that we have talked about the
00:14:16.900colonial mindset and the pioneer mind and mindset the two different characters
00:14:20.760in Canada this is very much the colonial mindset this is this is what we got from
00:14:27.880Ontario Quebec and absolutely Quebec and the Maritimes this is what when we were born if you
00:14:35.160will by Eastern Canada they transcribed those principle-based morality principle-based values
00:14:41.880into our uh into our societies in the West and this so if you ever ask what has Ontario ever
00:14:48.720done for me the very first thing is that they gave us a very highly valuable principle based
00:14:55.120principle-based society which i think is something that we need to recognize okay well then relate
00:15:01.520that back to the whole like the state apparatus and how what's coming up today as far as like
00:15:06.960uh going on in the united states versus going on in canada that really reflects
00:15:11.280what you're saying well i think the first place to look is is uh incarceration and uh so in in
00:15:17.840In the United States, for 100,000 citizens, there are 550 citizens in jail, in the incarceration system.
00:15:33.000So just off of that number, you can see the difference between a principles-based versus rules-based.
00:15:39.240The Americans have to put people in jail because that's what defines society.
00:15:44.980The other thing that I want to throw in here is, by the way, that rate of incarceration is well above Western Europe.
00:15:53.520And only Russia, Kazakhstan, and I think South Africa are kind of not even close to the United States, but kind of halfway between.
00:16:02.160So these have played out and created some very fundamentally different cultures, which I think until now I walk around feeling like I know.
00:16:09.660but this is giving me some good context for placing that within, you know, why we might be different.
00:16:15.620But how does that impact us when we're trying to deal with each other?
00:16:18.660So when Canadians are trying to deal with Americans at any level, what happens?
00:16:22.440Well, it's interesting because, you know, you judge your own success by your own standards.
00:16:29.160And in Canada, we have a certain set of standards, and it's about our morality and about how we treat people,
00:16:35.780and it's about how we respect each other and a little less about our economic advancement
00:16:43.380in the u.s they measure themselves by what not a surprise by something that they actually excel at
00:16:48.820which is financial advantage and financial success so we look at ourselves and say well
00:16:55.620we're nice people uh 64 percent of canadians think that they are nicer and more polite than americans
00:17:02.74064 and then we say that we have a 54 believe that we have have a better culture and more are
00:17:12.100on are more worldly than the united states and then um two-thirds of 66 percent of canadians
00:17:20.580think that americans are arrogant which kind of relates to that issue of they measure themselves
00:17:26.500by their financial success we measure them by their moral success their social success
00:17:32.740And then the last one is that 82% of Canadians feel that Canada is more admired internationally than the United States.
00:17:44.700So that's all Pew Research information, by the way.
00:17:47.640That's interesting differences between the...
00:17:51.360I mean, it's one of the only times I've actually heard a lot about the differences between our two cultures.
00:17:55.460Although, like I said before, I can certainly feel it the way I can feel the difference in the different regions in Canada.
00:18:00.680So, okay, how do we as Canadians view Americans and vice versa?
00:18:05.980Well, Americans view us not in the same way.
00:18:08.960Americans view us as, I think the number is 79% of Americans view Canadians favourably,