Bill C-276 would require the Minister of Finance to establish a national framework on the continued access to and use of cash in our country. It also would prevent the Bank of Canada from developing a central bank digital currency, and the third thing it will do is take away the ability of cabinet to remove physical currency from circulation.
00:00:00.000I'm Willie Temtem with the Western Standard here in Ottawa outside of Parliament Hill where I had
00:00:09.360the chance to speak with Conservative Member of Parliament Ted Falk on his new Private Members
00:00:13.840Bill C-276. The bill is targeted towards removing the Finance Minister's right to melt currency,
00:00:21.440physical currency that is, so cash and coins from circulation, and protect Canadians' rights to use
00:00:27.760cash and of course that would create a national framework and study how to create that framework
00:00:33.040to protect the canadian's right to use cash in all transactions i had a few questions for him
00:00:38.240he really had to say i'm joined with member of parliament ted falk ted thank you for making time
00:00:44.000to speak with the western standard so ted you're introducing a private member's bill on central
00:00:50.400bank digital currency can you tell us more what that actually means yeah well the bill is actually
00:00:55.680It does three things, and it's a bill that will require the Minister of Finance to establish a national framework on the continued access to and use of cash in our country.
00:01:10.720That's the very first thing it does, so it would mean that a national framework would have to be established.
00:01:17.260And the second thing it'll do is it would prevent the Bank of Canada from developing a central bank digital currency.
00:01:22.680And the third thing it will do is it will take away the ability of cabinet to remove physical currency from circulation, which is something that under the Justin Trudeau era, they gave themselves the power to do.
00:01:38.460So let's talk about the timing of this. Why are you bringing this bill now? What's the call of effect for it?
00:01:45.320You know, the interesting thing was it's something that was tweaked in my own personal life about three years ago when I took my grandson to an NHL hockey game to watch the Winnipeg Jets and I wanted to buy him a hot dog and a pop.
00:02:02.520And I went to one of the vendors in the Canada Life Centre at that time and tried to do that and I presented them with a $20 bill to pay for the hot dog and the pop, which by the way just barely would have covered it.
00:02:15.320Some of these venue concession stands are very expensive, but they said that they weren't accepting any cash.
00:02:25.980And I said, well, then I'll just go check with one of the other vendors.
00:02:29.620And they said, well, none of us accept cash. We're completely digital.
00:02:34.200And I thought, wow, well, that's interesting.
00:02:36.360And I mean, I did have a means to pay by way of credit card, and so I chose to do that.
00:02:42.080You could have used either debit or credit.
00:02:44.480But I thought to myself, well, that's interesting.
00:02:46.620We have a currency in this country, which is legal tender.
00:02:49.720And when merchants refused to accept that, I got a problem with that
00:02:53.260because that was my preferred choice of payment was to use cash.
00:02:58.320And so I thought I need to work on this and find out what's what.
00:03:01.580So ideally, I would have liked to have presented a bill
00:03:05.240that would require individuals, businesses, merchants to accept cash
00:03:13.600Unfortunately, that's outside of the federal purview. Establishing a national framework is not, but to mandate that on vendors and businesses and merchants or individuals is a provincial jurisdiction issue.
00:03:30.160And so that's something that provinces would then have to adopt.
00:03:32.680So I think one of the ways to address that is to establish a framework at the federal level, which then provinces will either adopt or build on.
00:03:41.200Well, let's talk about the human behavior for a second.
00:03:43.600On a societal level, video games, movies, even forms of payment are all moving in one direction and it's digital.
00:03:52.640So do you think you have the public's best interests or do you have any public support behind this effort?
00:03:58.820Given the fact that we'll raise those concerns on central bank digital currencies specifically,
00:04:04.120but the process of digitalization or adopting technologies to make things more efficient from a digital means
00:04:10.600seems to be quite popular with society on a number of fronts.
00:04:14.120Absolutely, and society has been moving in that direction.
00:04:17.940Many people have adopted digital forms of payment,
00:04:22.400whether it's credit card or debit card or digital currencies like cryptocurrencies.
00:04:29.000So those are all becoming more popular, but there's still a segment of the population,
00:04:32.940especially among underprivileged people that prefer to use cash
00:04:38.080and the people that are in marginalized communities, most of them rely on cash.
00:08:06.020Sure, but do you have anything in mind in terms of what you'd want that to be, that framework that you're mentioning?
00:08:12.560I think the most important part is that there is a framework that will guarantee continued access to and the ability to use cash in our country.
00:08:23.540So imagine that being something like a fine.
00:08:26.340That's something the finance minister of the day is going to have to figure out.
00:14:03.120Obviously, privacy is a major concern for many Canadians, but it seems to be a concern that can be sold off for a certain price of convenience, as we've agreed already.
00:14:11.700What exactly is the some examples that you've heard or that you've thought of deeply about how important privacy is in the method of transaction?
00:14:19.740You've talked about maybe domestic violence victims, seniors, people in remote communities.
00:14:25.280Can you give me a few examples that you've heard or listened to in the recent past that have inspired you in approaching this bill?
00:14:31.420Well, someone asked me just the other day, how would we ever, actually yesterday at one of the events here in Ottawa, somebody said, you know, I've often wondered if we do move in a digital direction more as a country, and this was actually at the Canadian Bankers Association reception that I attended, asked me, you know, I've often wondered how we would help homeless people.
00:14:57.700you know like they don't typically have a bank account they don't typically have a debit card
00:15:04.500or a credit card how would we be able to help them if we couldn't give them some cash just as
00:15:10.140out of compassion you know and and that's just one example so the homeless population would be
00:15:17.600very disadvantaged all of a sudden and and there's other people in remote communities that
00:15:23.300And I know part of the government's plan is to provide everybody with broadband internet, no matter where you are in Canada.
00:15:31.040But the reality is that we don't have that today.
00:15:33.940And that in many remote communities, cash is the form of payment when you want to exchange goods or services among individuals.
00:15:46.460Many of the people that are elderly, some of the older people, have actually written me letters when they've realized I've reintroduced my bill, which I had in the previous parliament as well.
00:15:57.800At that time, it was Bill C-400. Now it's coming back as Bill C-276.
00:16:02.640and they've reached out, sent me an email just saying how much they support that
00:16:08.180because as elderly people, they're not as comfortable dealing with strictly a digital form of payment services
00:16:17.000through their bank or the use of credit cards.
00:16:20.580And in fact, more and more of them are becoming concerned about the fraud and the scam
00:16:25.720that's becoming too prevalent in our country.
00:16:29.380And so people have been reaching out to me in that aspect
00:16:33.020and saying that this is an important bill
00:16:34.920because they do like to have cash on hand.
00:16:37.960They know what they're exchanging for what.
00:17:44.180And Laat, realistically, on, again, the parliamentary section of this,
00:17:49.300How do you envision convincing Liberal Party members led by Prime Minister Mark Carney, who endorses this vision, or even members of the NDP and other opposition parties, to get to a point where this bill can move forward?
00:18:03.600You know what, I think if these people canvass their constituents and have these discussions in their constituency with people that perhaps could be on the marginalized end of our society or even really common blue-collar workers, lots of them prefer cash as a method of payment.
00:18:26.060but even executives understand the importance of having access to cash having having the access
00:18:33.720to cash as a backstop but also as a form of making anonymous payments and you know protecting their
00:18:40.440individual privacy making sure there's not a digital record kept somewhere about every single
00:18:46.680financial transaction that they've decided to make i think i think that's important to just
00:18:52.000about everybody and i think members whether that whatever party you're in i think if they're going
00:18:59.020to actually ask their constituents how they think i think there'll be actually very broad-based
00:19:03.480support for something like this and and you know it's this is something it's a private members
00:19:08.400bill it could be adopted by parliament i fully understand that parliament has the ability to
00:19:13.860actually revoke bills and to change legislation down the road going forward when governments
00:19:20.120change and we can see it but i think for now if we can get this passed through all levels of
00:19:26.320parliament through committee stage and then send over to the senate i think there's going to be
00:19:30.660lots of good testimony but this is a good bill and that this is the direction canadians want to go
00:19:35.800so have you heard from any members of the liberal caucus that they're supportive or that they'll be
00:19:42.280willing to vote this at least into committee uh i haven't uh this time around i haven't spoken to
00:20:43.520why also the access and use of cash is important
00:20:48.740and why they think that Parliament should make decisions
00:20:51.660when it comes to monetary issues and not just Cabinet.
00:20:54.480So I'm looking forward to actually passing this through the House on second reading
00:20:59.200getting it to committee and having a thorough study done.
00:21:02.740Lastly, let's just exit off the bill and get to the central bank for a moment.
00:21:07.060One of the things that they are working on is, I think it's the rail system
00:21:10.420It's some sort of a national central bank run transaction system as opposed to maybe e-transfer or other private alternatives having a central system.
00:21:21.420Countries in the world, multiple, have these systems like even Brazil where any regulated bank, any recognized bank can have an account holder that can use a system via contact information like an email or a phone number or a unique code and then send money at instant speeds.
00:21:40.420You know without you know without any delays or any any taxes or fees whatsoever
00:21:45.820Are you in principle support of this of this kind of technology from a central bank?
00:21:50.360Well, not from the central bank, but there's individuals that have stable coins
00:21:55.840Stable coin platform which talk about that same same type of system where they have one single payment rail
00:22:01.600Which would expedite the movement of money?
00:22:04.460Not just domestically, but also internationally
00:22:07.180Lastly, was Pierre Polyev, your current leader, mistaken
00:22:13.420when he talked about firing the governor of the Bank of Canada?