Western Standard - Carbon tax protests didn't move the needle

00:00:00.000 good evening welcome to the pipeline this is the western standards weekly

00:00:28.320 panel show where we talk about some of the top issues going on in the week, analyze them,

00:00:33.200 dissect them, make sense of them if we can. My name is Corey Morgan. I'm a columnist with

00:00:38.480 the Western Standard and I'm joined today by starting on my right, our opinion editor,

00:00:43.520 Nigel Hannaford. Hello again. It's good to be here, isn't it, Corey? Good to have some consistency

00:00:48.160 with these shifting faces on the pipeline week by week, but still it's good to have some fresh faces.

00:00:53.920 always upholding those same right ideas oh yes of course on the end we got sean polzer in uh we've

00:01:00.400 been pulling in remotely onto this show now you got the nice comfort of being here in person welcome

00:01:04.400 to well thank you great yeah nice speaker we've got a lot to go on about today i i guess you know

00:01:11.200 we're we're gonna start with sean today because you went uh they sent you out in the field or you

00:01:15.760 chose to go there and uh catch some of those carbon uh tax protests that were going on over

00:01:21.600 well they were across the country but a pretty big one west of calgary yeah um just over on the

00:01:27.360 trans canada highway at the uh petro canada you know it's a pretty pretty quick stop on the way

00:01:33.520 up to the ski hill for calgary residents um yeah there was at one point there was about 500 people

00:01:39.760 that were out and about and uh fairly seasoned crowd i would i would say uh veterans of the uh

00:01:47.040 freedom convoy to ottawa and the main organizer was freedom george who actually went to jail

00:01:54.720 for his role in committing mischief even though he was sentenced to six months probation i think

00:02:01.760 but uh yeah it was uh all in all it was uh fairly well uh organized uh they got their point across

00:02:08.240 even managed to uh yeah they didn't block the highway per se but uh you know they've got these

00:02:14.400 tactics where they get the trucks rolling with flags and they slower down to 30 and you know

00:02:19.200 even though they were supposed to keep one lane open a little slow rolling yeah slow rolling yep

00:02:23.840 but so by the end of the day apparently that lineup was about uh four or five clicks backed up

00:02:29.280 uh passed up the overpass and police came in the mounties with uh i don't know where all the all

00:02:35.840 the police officers came from but i went down there yesterday and uh apparently they had tactical

00:02:40.720 teams and they had big vans and it was a real major effort there still hasn't been any confirmation

00:02:47.920 from the police whether i would imagine like they would have to bring people in from outside the

00:02:53.200 detachment but uh yeah it was part of a series of protests that were going on there was at least

00:02:58.960 three other ones in alberta there was one up in jasper there was another one in crow's nest pass

00:03:03.840 yeah well it was just a fluke of timing i didn't i knew there were going to be some but i didn't pay

00:03:07.760 pay close attention because I had to run off to Vancouver for something much more important for

00:03:10.900 the weekend. But I was driving back and I hit that, that protest eastbound, which wasn't so

00:03:14.840 bad. It slowed us down a little bit. Boy, they, they really, really did back things up. As for

00:03:19.980 the title, you know, it didn't really move the needle though. I mean, it might help people

00:03:23.280 express themselves and get it out there and bring it back into the news. But, but Nigel, I mean,

00:03:26.800 what do you think? Was this a, what you could call a successful demonstration?

00:03:30.620 no not really uh i don't mean to i don't mean to pour cold water on the efforts of these guys

00:03:39.500 because we all believe the same thing you know we think that the the tax is excessive it shouldn't

00:03:45.260 be there it's poorly motivated i could go on in the opinion columns i have gone on at length

00:03:51.900 the only thing is if i was uh i'd be on their side when i i got to the start of the slow roll but by

00:03:58.540 By the time I'm four kilometers, four miles later, when I've been cut back and held up, I'm starting to get tired of it.

00:04:08.000 So if you irritate your friends, is it a success?

00:04:12.380 It didn't cause any fuss or discombobulation to Mr. Trudeau.

00:04:16.280 And he's actually the one that we really want to get the message to.

00:04:19.440 This just didn't do it.

00:04:21.120 Yeah, well, it was peaceful, at least.

00:04:22.960 They weren't being out of control.

00:04:24.960 No, no, it wasn't bad in that sense.

00:04:27.540 It was boisterous.

00:04:28.260 it was you know there were plenty of uh i can't say it on the air you know you we've all seen the

00:04:37.540 signs the trudeau signs yeah yeah and people vocalize it vocalizing it put the asterisks in

00:04:43.480 to change the asterisk uh but at least it was a rural area you know i mean it backs up a lot

00:04:48.240 of people i mean that's a busy highway on a long weekend uh but i mean the protests you get out

00:04:54.040 you make noise you're on the side fine you make the evening news you should move on a problem a

00:04:59.080 lot of protests have and i think these guys had it they were back again yesterday though yes so

00:05:03.720 you know how long are they gonna hold this up it sounds like today they've given up but

00:05:08.120 they overstay their welcome it seems i think sometimes yeah well you know uh some people

00:05:12.200 had made the comment you know that you know this is a protest you know protests are supposed to

00:05:17.160 inconvenience people yeah but not your friends you can have a pretty tough uh pretty tough time

00:05:23.400 not offending somebody around here then well somebody's always going to get upset but your

00:05:28.040 point though is to bring attention to an issue and build i mean you really do want to build a degree

00:05:33.080 of public support you'll never win everybody but you want people to look at that nod their heads

00:05:36.760 and say i agree with what these guys are doing but yeah if you go out and just keep poking your

00:05:40.840 finger in everybody's eyes and you're that abrasive you're not helping your cause you're

00:05:45.640 You're maybe helping some vent, but.

00:05:48.200 Well, and that's about it.

00:05:49.960 No, no, this energy has to be translated into political action ending in a vote.

00:06:00.080 And keep the pressure up by all means.

00:06:04.860 Keep harassing your MPs.

00:06:08.060 I mean, it's not a problem in Alberta.

00:06:09.460 I don't think there's an Alberta MP other than one in Edmonton who might actually support a carbon tax.

00:06:17.140 Well, one in Calgary, too, who does support a carbon tax.

00:06:21.460 All right, well, okay, so there's two.

00:06:23.260 You know, like this isn't, we have to change the hearts and minds back east and get people out there.

00:06:28.160 Maybe another ring around Parliament Hill for a weekend.

00:06:32.600 What do you think?

00:06:32.960 Well, I was impressed that, you know, there were these similar protests even in Quebec, you know, which has its own carbon price scheme and, you know, ostensibly supports the carbon tax.

00:06:47.080 Even in British Columbia, some gas stations lowered prices to 2008 levels, which was about a buck a liter, because that was the year that they introduced their own carbon tax.

00:06:57.780 The Crow's Nest Pass protests drew people from Sparwood and some of those communities

00:07:06.580 in the Yauk Valley.

00:07:08.020 So it wasn't by any means just restricted to Alberta and Saskatchewan.

00:07:13.720 There were protests in Nova Scotia, there were protests in New Brunswick, Newfoundland.

00:07:19.180 And apparently the response was pretty similar all the way through.

00:07:22.720 They included a similar show of force from the police

00:07:27.000 and, you know, just telling people to back off

00:07:29.940 and that kind of thing.

00:07:31.220 Yeah, just raising the level of mass consciousness

00:07:33.520 across the country is a good thing.

00:07:35.740 And it's, as I say, maybe keep two, maybe...

00:07:39.040 Maybe keep one lane open.

00:07:40.120 Keep one lane open, a little more open than it was.

00:07:43.020 You can do it.

00:07:43.880 I mean, you know, just to close it, like, as I said,

00:07:46.080 I happen to be almost a passerby.

00:07:48.020 I said I didn't know what was going to be happening there

00:07:49.620 at that time.

00:07:50.380 And I would have been just as impressed

00:07:51.840 if I've just seen 500 people on the side of the road waving signs and flags without backing up

00:07:56.720 the traffic. I always said, wow, that's a lot of people getting off their butt on a long weekend 0.84

00:08:00.240 when they could be doing other things to express themselves. I just don't feel they needed to piss 0.99

00:08:04.760 everybody off, to be blunt about it. Did you honk? No, because I was just trying to pull through as

00:08:12.500 things were. But I guess, you know, people have to express themselves. And as things go, I mean,

00:08:18.760 it's finished now and there were certainly no big clashes with police or anything like that so

00:08:22.840 it was good as far as that went. The police probably don't like paying carbon tax either.

00:08:27.900 No and I don't think they, despite what some people might think, they don't like wading in

00:08:31.600 on protesters and swinging the batons and breaking them up if they can avoid it as well.

00:08:35.760 Well there's a certain point we've got, another point that we've got to get across is the

00:08:39.300 fundamental deceit of saying look you're getting more back than the tax that you are paying.

00:08:48.760 first of all it is not true notwithstanding the earnest protestations of the prime minister

00:08:56.280 truth of the matter is that that is a taxable those checks are taxable are they not i'm not

00:09:03.080 sure i believe they are i just felt my taxes i got 900 bucks and then part of it too is you pay gst

00:09:10.760 on the carbon tax when you like yeah the whole thing is that the general raising of prices

00:09:16.920 through inflation caused by the truckers the farmers the food producers and everybody else

00:09:21.960 passing on the the carbon tax they pay uh it there is no way that those checks that the government

00:09:29.640 sends you are anywhere close to what you are paying out well the other issue is uh how effective

00:09:38.040 it actually is um there was a report from i believe it was the clean clean clean energy

00:09:45.000 something CES centers you know they're they're very pro carbon tax but by their

00:09:50.880 estimates a consumer carbon tax only accounts for about 3% of the emissions

00:09:55.620 reduction you know in in terms of the pain that it's that's the other end of

00:10:01.680 it it's not changing the climate it's not moving the needle no no no no well

00:10:06.480 let's go to something else that isn't moving the needle and that's the Chinese 1.00

00:10:11.340 the inquiry finally sort of, kind of into the Chinese election interference or foreign election

00:10:18.400 interference. We're starting to get some questions at least. Let's come back into the news scroll.

00:10:23.580 What's going on over there, Sean? You know, I haven't really followed this one that closely,

00:10:29.340 although I am familiar with the Chinese community. I suppose what struck me as odd was

00:10:35.980 Our columnist Linda Splodian, you know, kind of said it best is that, you know, they haven't managed to really make any inroads in this investigation, even though they've been doing it now for, what, two years?

00:10:47.320 But at the same time, they were investigating election signs from, you know, our friends over at Rebel Media there.

00:10:54.280 You know, somehow it seemed to take a higher priority when you're tarnishing the image of the prime minister as opposed to actual real bonafide election interference.

00:11:03.780 Yeah, and Linda always puts it excellently and, you know, the double standard. 0.51

00:11:09.120 I mean, this apparently just doesn't seem to be important to the government.

00:11:12.960 What do you think, Nigel?

00:11:14.300 Well, you know, there were quite a few things that came out yesterday that I don't think anybody was really anticipating.

00:11:22.620 One was that, according to the testimony, campaign directors for the federal parties in the 2021 election

00:11:33.600 were not warned about the possibility of Chinese interference in specific writings,

00:11:41.660 even though Canadian intelligence was aware of it and had briefed the government.

00:11:52.620 The Conservative campaign co-chair in the 2021 election,

00:11:55.900 he's a very high-powered lawyer in Morton Fulbright, I believe,

00:12:01.660 Waleed Solman, and his liberal co-part confirmed at the inquiry

00:12:10.340 that they were never given that level of detail

00:12:15.720 during the top-level security briefings.

00:12:17.940 this was despite the intelligence officials assessing months earlier,

00:12:23.500 that there was a likely risk of foreign interference.

00:12:28.120 So that's one thing that was a surprise.

00:12:32.840 It was also interesting to note that Aaron O'Toole,

00:12:37.980 who led the party at one point,

00:12:41.500 stated

00:12:44.360 that

00:12:45.920 Chinese foreign interference could have influenced

00:12:49.320 up to nine ridings.

00:12:51.780 Well, I remember

00:12:52.420 Conservative MPs were

00:12:54.800 being harassed. Their families were being harassed

00:12:57.100 in Hong Kong.

00:12:58.020 We kind of knew that already, but this is

00:13:01.160 for O'Toole coming out

00:13:03.140 and saying they have

00:13:04.660 all got their own internal polling.

00:13:06.800 They've got a rough idea how they're going to do.

00:13:08.960 Basically, there were about nine

00:13:10.380 where they it was so different to what they predicted that obviously to them obviously

00:13:17.020 something had gone on so what hard to know um and this is the other thing it's not a strictly

00:13:25.940 electoral matter but the way that the liberals choose their candidates and i guess you could

00:13:30.820 be 14 years old and vote uh in a liberal nomination so it was busloaded that was with

00:13:38.480 hand on yeah again his story is starting to change you know at first i'm a victim and oh well now you

00:13:45.440 know oh i didn't know that this was untoward that busload after busload after busload somebody who

00:13:51.120 might have been behind that or as i mean the dong is hanging out you can't believe him well in my

00:13:57.920 view yeah and the chinese community they i mean they have their own social media channels like

00:14:03.520 They've got their WeChat and pretty much everybody, whether they're Canadian or not, is tied into it.

00:14:08.960 And it's definitely monitored by the Communist Party.

00:14:12.140 So there's almost like back channels where they could convey this message.

00:14:17.640 And some of the Chinese language media and their small little community papers in the Chinatown and that kind of thing.

00:14:27.240 And I'm not suggesting by any means that they're affiliated with the Communist Party.

00:14:32.180 but uh you know uh the chinese community is pretty tight in this you know this country and it's uh

00:14:38.740 there's a lot of them have direct connections back to relatives and that in the mainland and

00:14:43.620 um more and more of them are coming from the mainland now like almost all the immigration

00:14:48.180 used to be from hong kong so i would you know like i said i'm not questioning their sympathies

00:14:53.700 or their loyalties but there's definitely a lot of back channels that we're probably not privy to

00:15:00.140 No, I mean, at least some stuff's finally coming out of this inquiry.

00:15:03.740 So, I mean, we can analyze and chew on it.

00:15:05.460 I mean, because we've gotten really nothing for, you know, foot dragging and hiring friends

00:15:10.800 and doing everything they could.

00:15:12.600 At least some people are now starting to bring out some new documents and information.

00:15:17.100 Hopefully we get closer to trying to figure out just what the heck is going on.

00:15:20.380 Well, I mean, hopefully we do.

00:15:21.980 That's the frustrating thing about these processes.

00:15:24.100 And I think it's intentional that you get a hint of what happened,

00:15:28.940 then it's denied and then you sort of move on to the next thing and then well i guess eventually

00:15:33.500 the commissioner will report and that's probably going to be after the next election and the right

00:15:38.940 things are going and uh they're hoping people will forget and hope people won't forget i'm

00:15:44.060 afraid they might i hate to you know with the canadian interest levels on subjects can be a

00:15:49.260 little myopic at times uh so i mean going on the campaign feels almost like it started already

00:15:55.660 even though it could be a ways away we'll talk shortly with our guest on that but

00:15:59.980 uh it just seems every day the prime minister is announcing another spending initiative on

00:16:05.500 something that i don't recall any of us really asking for and often not even in his jurisdiction

00:16:10.700 he's reaching into my wallet and he's handing part of it back to me and saying here look how kind and

00:16:14.860 generous i am uh is he fixing any problems well no and uh you know this kind of goes back to

00:16:23.180 rebranding the carbon tax a rebate you know it's like is this uh uh you know a program to reduce

00:16:30.220 emissions or is it a program to redistribute wealth and i i would say that some of these

00:16:35.900 housing announcements that they're coming up with too kind of seem to be almost a redistribution of

00:16:41.420 sorts you know except now he's trying to put it for younger people who you know quite frankly

00:16:47.580 probably don't have any hope of ever being able to own a home if you're if you're under 35 you're

00:16:53.020 your chances of probably ever owning a home in this country.

00:16:56.360 And the circumstance are slim to none, right?

00:16:59.020 So what are you gonna do, hand out 15 billion

00:17:03.920 for construction loans and build apartments

00:17:06.360 and like what, just to put a roof over your head?

00:17:09.440 It's like, okay, it seems to be a pretty low bar.

00:17:14.440 That's it, and then I will expand a bit more on that.

00:17:17.460 Like this 15 billion injected,

00:17:19.160 it doesn't bring anybody's rents down,

00:17:21.140 it doesn't help the market. We're maxed out. We've got a lot of issues hindering construction

00:17:25.000 and slowing it, but it hasn't been for lack of capital. It kind of gets to me too, where they're

00:17:29.380 talking about they're going to change the credit ratings, you know, have rent apply to your credit

00:17:33.980 rating to help you get a place. If you're 25 and you're looking at a $1.7 million house in

00:17:39.060 Vancouver, it doesn't matter how good your credit's going to be, you're getting in. Is this 15 billion

00:17:44.800 bunch of loans is going to help anything, Nigel? Well, first of all, if you actually, first of all,

00:17:49.180 it's over several years this is not like next month we're going to put but that's when the

00:17:54.360 people needs the houses right now okay that's the first thing the second thing is if you do the maths

00:17:59.480 it looks to me like the it's about 500 000 a unit so how many are you really going to get

00:18:09.120 um they say 30 000 units well gosh we could we could rent 30 000 units now if we had them to

00:18:18.380 rent and the other thing that this doesn't is who is going to build these things it's not like there

00:18:24.440 are a bunch of bricklayers and concrete pourers and finishing carpenters sitting around wondering

00:18:32.320 where the next job is coming from they are all going flat out so you can put all this money out

00:18:37.400 there and you're still not going to get anything built because everybody who knows how to do it

00:18:43.100 is busy already well ironically it could bring the prices up because then you bring bidding wars for

00:18:47.840 of the trades people to get the places built.

00:18:50.080 The only way to compensate for that

00:18:51.400 is to raise the price downstream

00:18:52.860 for the rent or the sale of the properties.

00:18:55.280 Well, I was just gonna say this $500,000 for a unit.

00:18:58.400 I mean, geez, over in Northeast Calgary,

00:19:00.460 you can buy an apartment for $250,000.

00:19:03.380 You know, like those seem to be pretty expensive apartments.

00:19:06.780 So this program goes out nationally.

00:19:08.880 Don't tell the whole country

00:19:10.660 that you can buy something for $250,000 in Calgary.

00:19:14.600 You know, we're talking about a what?

00:19:15.660 That's the way in the rush, yeah.

00:19:18.500 That's...

00:19:19.340 If you're up in Skyview Ranch,

00:19:20.340 you don't mind those 747 tires tapping on your roof

00:19:23.640 on the way, that's where you can get the affordable apartment.

00:19:26.260 Oh, there you go, that's why they're 250 carats.

00:19:29.600 No, look, I mean, there's something a lot of people

00:19:31.740 don't understand about this,

00:19:32.840 because I had to watch Mr. Trudeau

00:19:35.800 making this announcement this morning.

00:19:37.420 Yeah, you were forced to.

00:19:39.460 We were forced to watch it.

00:19:40.900 Yeah, you know, against my will.

00:19:42.840 But, so here's...

00:19:45.660 But he talks about getting the provinces, and I hate this expression, we've got to get the provinces to step up.

00:19:53.580 Everything is always about stepping up as if, you know, anyway, that's a linguistic thing.

00:20:00.220 The point is the provinces would be stepping up if the federal government had not hosed them about 30 years ago.

00:20:10.360 What happened was that they sold the provinces on national health care

00:20:15.000 with a federal contribution of 50 cents on the dollar.

00:20:18.180 That was back in the last century.

00:20:20.580 Then when they got into trouble about 30 years ago,

00:20:24.540 they said, well, we're not doing that anymore.

00:20:26.080 Now it's only 15 cents on the dollar.

00:20:30.780 There were howls of protest, but what were you going to do?

00:20:33.660 Well, what they had to do was keep the level of health spending up

00:20:38.460 because that's the one thing that can get you diselected faster than anything else

00:20:43.600 is cutting back on health spending and having people dying on gurneys.

00:20:48.500 So all the provinces used the financial room that they had,

00:20:52.600 which is not unlimited, to keep the health system running.

00:20:57.280 So all the other things that provinces would like to do

00:21:00.080 were very much cut back by the effects of this federal action.

00:21:07.060 And one of those things was the ability to actually take control of housing policy.

00:21:13.240 So calling on the provinces to step up is the height of a number of things.

00:21:19.440 But hypocrisy is the first thing that comes to mind.

00:21:22.580 Well, you can't step up when the federal government's cut off your feet.

00:21:25.580 Exactly.

00:21:26.520 So getting on to that federal government, they're grossly unpopular.

00:21:30.740 Lots of people eager to get their chance to express that at the ballot box.

00:21:34.560 But that might not be as soon as we even think.

00:21:38.260 I mean, a lot of people think there's that fixed date coming up a year and a half from now in fall.

00:21:43.380 But constitutionally, that's not necessarily all that fixed.

00:21:45.980 Actually, that's just policy. That's not constitutional.

00:21:49.000 So we bring somebody in who's suffered for many years in Parliament to learn those ins and outs and all that constitutional stuff and policy stuff.

00:21:56.220 We've got Jay Hill in here and he'll kind of explain that our hopes for getting rid of this government in a year and a half might be dashed.

00:22:04.320 How's it going, Jay?

00:22:05.860 Very well.

00:22:06.680 Thank you, Corey.

00:22:08.620 So not everybody necessarily understands.

00:22:11.800 Perhaps we can kind of explain how this works.

00:22:14.640 Because, you know, there's the constitutional obligation for when an election has to be held.

00:22:19.260 And there's the legislation they put in for when they say an election is going to be held.

00:22:23.860 But those aren't necessarily, you know, the case, right?

00:22:27.520 Exactly.

00:22:28.040 Yeah, we've got this, I'll call it a system of law in this country where we've become used to having a federal election roughly every four years.

00:22:42.240 And the date is set after the most recent election so that primarily the governing party and the prime minister can't play with the date to suit their own needs, which is what would happen before.

00:22:55.540 We have these so-called fixed election dates.

00:22:59.140 However, because they don't align with the Constitution, specifically Section 50, where a government can wait five years for an election, it's really still up to the prime minister.

00:23:19.100 And we've had a couple of cases in the last number of years where prime ministers have called an election before the fixed date.

00:23:27.320 We just had in the House of Commons, Corey, the government bring in a new bill whereby they'll delay the next election, one week in October of 2025, so that a whole raft of MPs qualify for the pension plan, which they wouldn't have otherwise qualified for.

00:23:50.200 So there's still ambiguity, I guess I'll call it, about when the election will be.

00:23:56.020 So we could have a whole discussion about that.

00:23:57.920 But as far as I know, the prime minister could still at some point over the next year and a half further delay it up to a year.

00:24:06.180 And the only time I'm aware that that's happened in my lifetime was the first two elections I was involved in.

00:24:12.340 And ironically, it was also when a governing party, in that case, the Progressive Conservatives, were incredibly unpopular, and they delayed the election for up to five years, or almost five years.

00:24:27.000 I think they were about a month short.

00:24:29.100 And Kim Campbell suffered the worst defeat in electoral history.

00:24:33.760 So I don't think delaying it a year will save Mr. Trudeau or his government,

00:24:39.300 but it'll certainly do a tremendous additional year of damage to our country.

00:24:47.640 Well, then it could.

00:24:50.420 What do you think, Nigel?

00:24:51.680 Do you think Trudeau, out of desperation, would go for it?

00:24:55.580 Depends what his friends in the NDP let him do, really.

00:24:58.440 if I were Mr. Singh I would be

00:25:01.500 up in the price considerably for my

00:25:03.540 continued support. Because let's face it

00:25:05.700 when Mr. Trudeau goes, Mr. Singh

00:25:07.740 is going to be following him.

00:25:09.340 This is not going to end well

00:25:11.720 for the NDP.

00:25:15.180 You know

00:25:15.480 you actually

00:25:16.880 Jay was saying that they were a month

00:25:19.740 short of five years. If you

00:25:21.760 go back to the end of the Second World War

00:25:23.780 they actually managed to make

00:25:25.880 it from the March 1940

00:25:27.620 to June 1945, so that was actually, that was a very exceptional circumstance, a war, a world war.

00:25:37.600 And so other than that, we, and other than the instance that Jay mentioned,

00:25:43.860 it's been every four years since the end of the war, since 1945.

00:25:48.600 So I have to think that the public reaction to a legislated change, to make it five years,

00:26:01.540 would be furious.

00:26:05.120 You know, peaceful protest would be widespread, boisterous, and it may be, you know, it may

00:26:12.660 You might block a few roads.

00:26:14.600 Cars slowed down a few miles an hour.

00:26:18.160 You know, if you thought that the Freedom Convoy was a lot to handle in Ottawa,

00:26:22.000 well, try going another year with this desperately unpopular government.

00:26:27.160 But they could tough that out.

00:26:29.020 My anxiety would be that in that year, knowing that they were going down in flames at the end of it,

00:26:34.440 they would do they would live every dream they ever had uh and and cause harm to this country

00:26:44.040 both in terms of its sense of self-worth but also obviously in the economy or um i don't know

00:26:52.680 whether we'd ever be able to haul ourselves out from it and i bet that this is the this is something

00:26:57.880 in the back of his mind we'll get further from that and i was chatting with jay a bit before

00:27:02.120 this show. And another real scary scenario, now we're kind of getting out there, but you never

00:27:06.080 know, especially in this day and age. Well, let's say they stretch it the extra year. People go

00:27:10.440 pretty bananas. We have a lot of protests and disorder and things happen. Well, that could lead

00:27:15.780 to, there's one more way to extend it even beyond five years. And that was mentioned in World War

00:27:20.740 II. They changed it from the name of the War Measures Act, call it the Emergencies Act, which

00:27:25.580 we've recently saw it imposed for protests, Jay, conceivably the Emergencies Act could extend it

00:27:32.200 even further, couldn't it? Oh, absolutely. And we've seen that happen, for example, in Venezuela.

00:27:39.540 And this gives me a chance to plug my most recent column, which Western Standard has graciously ran

00:27:47.820 in your publication, because I talk about this and it's not as far-fetched as people would think.

00:27:54.660 I mean, we look at what this government has done during its, you know, I would call it a false mandate.

00:28:07.220 You know, nobody expected that the NDP would effectively give Trudeau a majority government, and yet that's what's happened.

00:28:14.760 Nigel mentioned whether Singh would allow this government to go on an additional year after the four years.

00:28:22.580 Well, everything we've seen thus far would indicate he will.

00:28:27.680 And you were also talking earlier, gentlemen, about the ongoing carbon tax protests.

00:28:36.880 And I would argue that if they want to be effective with these protests, where they should be is in the NDP members of parliament's ridings.

00:28:47.280 And I've said this for quite some time. Put pressure on those MPs to revolt against Singh. That's the only way this government is going to fall. And, you know, so if you want effective protests, get into those ridings, get into those MPs' faces and ask them why they don't stand up and force their NDP colleagues to vote non-confidence in this government. And then it will end.

00:29:14.760 And I think that would be an effective protest and could be done, especially because I have personal experience being a so-called dissident and rebelling against a leader.

00:29:27.060 So I know it can be done. It's not a comfortable position to be in, but the NDP could do that if they so chose.

00:29:35.480 You know, I just wanted to make a comment because Jay mentioned a magic word there, and that was mandate.

00:29:42.980 So my 16-year-old daughter is doing model parliament up in Edmonton this weekend.

00:29:47.420 And we were talking in the car the other day.

00:29:49.360 And she said, you know, Dad, what's a mandate?

00:29:52.300 You know, and so, you know, I kind of have to try to.

00:29:55.080 So she said, is that like permission?

00:29:57.540 And I said, well, you know, like we're in this position now where this government is so unpopular, like, you know, that it really doesn't have a mandate anymore to do anything.

00:30:08.320 And that what it reasonably should do is call an election.

00:30:12.520 like now you know just just clear the decks and get it out of the way so i just was kind of

00:30:18.440 impressed that jay kind of brought up that word mandate you know and the fact is that this

00:30:23.640 government has none and uh i would argue that that extends over to the ndp as well well and those

00:30:29.160 cracks and loyalty and as jay mentioned i mean we remember the the the difficulties under stockwell

00:30:33.720 day conservatives are always quick to uh uh speak up when when they've had it with their leadership

00:30:38.920 and do what they feel it takes to, for better or worse, change the situation.

00:30:44.360 But the loyalty among the Liberal caucus has just been astounding, as well as with the NDP.

00:30:50.820 I mean, we know that some of those NDP members of Parliament find it galling that they're in bed with the Liberals on this.

00:30:56.840 They're socialists. They want to move farther left.

00:30:59.840 But they just won't utter a peep.

00:31:02.720 Like, what does it take, Jay?

00:31:03.740 I understand you're saying, let's put some pressure on them or have those protesters put the pressure on those.

00:31:08.920 NDP members that could be the weak link that would finally you know take this coalition apart but do

00:31:14.040 you think they'll ever actually budge? Well I think that one of the deciding factors for them to take

00:31:20.680 action Corey might be if the protesters in their ridings were able to generate enough support from

00:31:30.600 their own constituents so that those members of parliament know that whenever the election happens

00:31:36.680 they're toast that they're never going to get re-elected they're going to lose their job

00:31:41.960 and that despite the fact that they that they now apparently will uh qualify for uh their pension

00:31:50.200 they're going to lose their job they're going to become unemployed and for many of those um mps 0.98

00:31:55.320 it's the best job they've ever had so i think there are there should be ways to put pressure on them

00:32:01.320 So that even if they do it behind closed doors and put pressure on their own leader during caucus meetings, we need to see a change in the support, the blanket support that Singh has been giving to Trudeau.

00:32:16.380 Because, as you say, they don't, or your other guest said, that this government does not have a mandate, and yet they're forging ahead on multiple fronts to impose laws on Canadians that I would argue the vast majority of Canadians do not support.

00:32:34.680 So it's an abominable situation. And it's a real problem if we end up with a government that uses open protest like they did with, I would argue, peaceful protests in Ottawa with the Freedom Convoy to impose martial law, which would even allow them to ostensibly shut down this program that we're participating in right now.

00:33:04.480 should they choose. They can do whatever they want. And that's absolutely frightening.

00:33:10.600 And so I've been grappling for quite some time with just how far will this prime minister and

00:33:16.500 his government, with the support of the NDP, go? You know, how low will they go effectively?

00:33:24.300 Perhaps you guys can enlighten me as to what you think, how far he's going to proceed.

00:33:29.940 Only time is going to tell at this point, I guess. We'll all morbidly watch and hope for the best

00:33:34.980 and then put pressure on how possible. Our system just makes it darn difficult to do much between

00:33:40.020 elections. That's kind of part of what my column was about. Before I close off, Jay, yeah, you've

00:33:46.580 been providing columns for us here at the Western Standard. I'm going to let you go, though. Anything

00:33:52.740 else you'd like to add before we send you back to the nice sunshine you're enjoying there?

00:33:56.260 well i just thank you for being on the program and giving my uh column my latest column a plug

00:34:02.980 i hope people read it and at least consider it um it certainly will give the prime minister the

00:34:09.280 opportunity to uh label me something or other as he does anybody that speaks out against him

00:34:14.640 but i i still uh appreciate taking part in in some open debate and discussion about these issues

00:34:23.660 because they're increasingly important to all Canadians.

00:34:27.220 You know, Jay, I just want to tell you, your column is actually going,

00:34:30.540 I'm really saying this for the benefit of the listeners,

00:34:33.280 the column runs at 7.30 tomorrow morning.

00:34:36.700 And the other thing that I'll send you on your way with

00:34:40.560 is that if Mr. Trudeau had not actually considered the possibility

00:34:45.620 of going to five years, he read it in the Western Standard first,

00:34:50.280 and it'll be your idea, sir.

00:34:52.020 You put the bug in.

00:34:53.660 Well, I just, the other thing that I talk about in the column is be careful what you

00:35:00.280 wish for.

00:35:01.280 If these protests were to get out of hand to where he could, you know, go to Mr. Singh

00:35:06.960 and say, look, we've got to collectively impose the Emergencies Act again because this is

00:35:13.040 open rebellion and we can't allow this unrest in Canada.

00:35:18.980 And so then he could conceivably govern as long as he has the confidence of the House,

00:35:24.040 as they say.

00:35:25.040 All right.

00:35:26.040 Well, thank you for sharing your parliamentary wisdom with us, Jay, and your experience in

00:35:30.880 the columns and on the show today.

00:35:32.300 We'll have to get you back in the studio here once you get back up in the Great White

00:35:35.480 North, assuming things have stayed stable enough for you to get back up here.

00:35:39.480 So thank you very much, and I'm sure we'll be talking to you again soon.

00:35:44.300 Thank you.

00:35:45.300 So that was Jay Hill, who served a lot of time as a whip and a number of roles as a member of parliament.

00:35:52.100 And yes, it's always good to hear from him because he's been on the front lines of all of that for a long time

00:35:57.420 and can lend a lot of experience to these issues that people would rather not talk about quite often, to be honest.

00:36:03.900 So getting on to the next one, a nice easy one.

00:36:06.140 We're back to medical assistance and dying.

00:36:09.060 There's been a development in that ongoing case with that gentleman and his daughter.

00:36:14.800 Yeah, he's filed to the Alberta Court of Appeal, which is kind of like the last stop before the

00:36:20.800 Supreme Court to maintain the injunction. It's a really sad story. Father basically fighting

00:36:30.540 for his daughter's life. We were talking about this. She's living in the basement. How do you

00:36:37.920 have this conversation at the dinner table? Dad, I want to die. She's 27 years old. She's got 0.98

00:36:42.880 autism. She's got ADHD. Those are just the things that we know about because she hasn't filed any

00:36:50.560 documentation with the court over what her actual medical condition would be. Like presumably to be

00:36:57.660 approved for MAID, you have to have some kind of, I don't know, life ending, life debilitating kind

00:37:06.160 condition normally we think it would apply more to old people for alzheimer's or you know terminal

00:37:13.280 cancer or something like that but uh so he says she doesn't have the mental capacity to make the 0.99

00:37:18.640 decision he says any medical condition she has are a result of undiagnosed psychological disorders

00:37:25.680 but the judge is basically saying it's not up to the courts to interfere in patient doctor

00:37:33.840 confidentiality even though she had to shop around for a third doctor to actually get the approval

00:37:39.000 because you only need two the star panel only takes two to you know doctors or nurse practitioners

00:37:44.660 to approve so she went to one he approved she went to another he disapproved so they shopped

00:37:50.020 around for the tiebreaker doctor um she was scheduled to die on february 1st and he had

00:37:56.220 the injunction the day before on january 31st to like last ditch effort to to kind of stop this and

00:38:03.320 His complaint in court, even though we're not allowed to identify them, is that AHS and College of Physicians and Surgeons have a duty of care to at least explain why this is happening.

00:38:19.320 You know, instead of just allowing it, AHS says, all we're doing is performing the procedure.

00:38:25.800 It's a procedure, you know.

00:38:28.400 Yeah, cold.

00:38:29.300 Yeah, it's sad. It's a very sad state.

00:38:34.800 Well, you know, you have to feel sympathy for any young person

00:38:39.000 who's having so little fun in life that they actually want to die.

00:38:44.160 But, you know, if you read through your literature,

00:38:48.920 you find that that angst is a recurring theme

00:38:54.440 for centuries in popular novels.

00:38:59.300 and the job is to keep them alive to get them through it.

00:39:05.600 Normally, it doesn't take until somebody is in their late 20s.

00:39:11.080 But the idea, you know, there was another young woman,

00:39:15.220 I think the same age in eastern Canada,

00:39:18.160 who's just ended it all recently.

00:39:23.300 And the danger of this is this seems like a cool way to go out.

00:39:29.300 and to create a little ripple as you go.

00:39:33.140 The idea that this could be popularized

00:39:35.360 is a frightening one to me,

00:39:38.080 and it should be frightening to every parent

00:39:40.320 who is trying to see their children

00:39:42.720 into a healthy adulthood.

00:39:45.780 Look, I mean, you said that we don't know everything.

00:39:49.200 What we know is not enough

00:39:52.880 to merit committing suicide.

00:39:57.360 Absolutely. 0.96

00:39:57.800 And, you know, get through it is the would be the message.

00:40:04.080 It's a tough, you know, we've objected to when the when the I'm thinking back to the case of Annette Lewis, the woman who wanted an organ transplant and they wouldn't put her on the table to do the job because she wouldn't take the vaccine.

00:40:21.020 And eventually she died. And so we were quite upset when the medical profession made that decision.

00:40:26.300 well here we've here we're saying well do we want the judge making the decision instead of

00:40:32.600 the medical profession and it's it's hard to know who actually should have the last word

00:40:39.440 on allowing somebody who is capable of living to choose death yeah absolutely um i mean are we

00:40:48.720 going to extend it to people down syndrome you know like what what qualifies and i i'm not you

00:40:55.920 I'm a little bit torn on this. I respect the fact that she's 27 years old. There was a

00:41:02.780 spokesman from the Autism Society that said people with autism are quite capable of having

00:41:08.920 autonomy in these kind of matters. You and I were talking, you only have to be 16 years

00:41:19.220 old in this province to have an abortion without parental consent. You have to be 18 to have

00:41:24.920 a tattoo you know maybe 27 years old is old enough to be able to make those

00:41:29.780 kinds of decisions or not but what struck me though is that if you're going

00:41:34.340 to put it up to a panel and they were supposed to follow some kind of

00:41:38.180 objective guidelines it seems fairly reasonable to me that they should be

00:41:42.680 willing to be able to defend that decision in front of a professional body

00:41:48.020 like the College of Physicians and Surgeons even though after I wrote the

00:41:52.040 story, even though they had lawyers in the courtroom at that time, one of their spokespeople

00:41:58.080 emailed me to kind of correct one of my articles and say, well, we are not directly intervening

00:42:04.280 in this case. So they're kind of watching it, but they're not observing it, whereas Alberta

00:42:11.020 Health Services is. And this fellow's complaint is actually with Alberta Health Services,

00:42:17.000 Because what he's saying is that they're failing to live up to a duty of care because his daughter does not have the mental, he claims, not the mental capacity to be able to make these decisions.

00:42:28.260 And he thinks that it's actually AHS that should have to justify performing this procedure.

00:42:35.340 And now the lawyers for AHS went up there and said, well, we make these decisions every day based on what the doctor says.

00:42:42.740 We can't question the doctor.

00:42:44.620 You know, we're making decisions to pull, you know, whatever, IVs and breathalyzers or, you know, breathing machines and these triage decisions all the time.

00:42:55.860 And so the question is, is how does this become any different?

00:42:59.500 I'll tell you, that's a reassuring note.

00:43:01.060 Next time you're going in for something, isn't it?

00:43:04.180 I'm just going to pull a plug on you.

00:43:05.820 The thing about it is that this was not what Maid was for.

00:43:09.720 I don't think so.

00:43:10.980 No, no, it wasn't.

00:43:11.740 I mean, when they sold us on this package, they used the very sad case of a woman with

00:43:17.420 Sue Rodriguez, and I think it was ALS, and she was in it.

00:43:21.460 Sven Robinson.

00:43:22.460 Sven Robinson was there helping her, and so the thing was she was in excruciating pain.

00:43:30.900 This is just about the most miserable way to go that I've ever been told about.

00:43:34.980 And it was terminal.

00:43:35.980 And it was terminal.

00:43:36.980 There was no coming back.

00:43:38.240 So when she took the, whatever you think, whether you're for it or get it,

00:43:42.260 you can see the logic of allowing somebody who is suffering terribly to end it now.

00:43:49.540 It was never intended for people with mental illness or with autism

00:43:55.360 or for psychological unrevealed programs.

00:44:00.460 It just never was for that.

00:44:01.980 And this is an expansion of an idea that is guaranteed to break somebody's heart.

00:44:08.620 Well, even the government is having second thoughts because earlier this year they delayed expanding it for, you know, mental illness as a sole condition, you know, by at least three years while they were reviewing it.

00:44:20.560 And this actually came up in the proceedings as well, is that it doesn't even seem like the government is comfortable with where this is going.

00:44:28.520 Well, the government is not comfortable about…

00:44:31.840 They were the ones that brought it in.

00:44:32.980 Where people think it's going.

00:44:34.260 That's what they're not comfortable about.

00:44:35.840 But the point is, right now, the law does not.

00:44:38.860 I'm reasonably certain I'm right about this,

00:44:41.300 because it's been backwards and forwards.

00:44:43.420 I do believe the law does not support

00:44:45.380 made for mental illness. 0.81

00:44:50.520 I hope not.

00:44:51.880 So if the justification for this case is that she's... 0.99

00:44:56.600 She would have other conditions.

00:44:58.520 That's part of what we don't know necessarily.

00:44:59.860 Well, is autism considered to be a debilitating condition?

00:45:03.540 Obviously, there's no cure for it.

00:45:04.840 It's incurable.

00:45:06.000 You know, maybe regular mental illness like alcoholism or something can be treated.

00:45:09.500 Well, the term for autism is a spectrum.

00:45:11.440 I mean, that goes from the point of somebody who has some marginal OCD to somebody who's completely debilitated and barely functional.

00:45:19.960 So, I mean...

00:45:20.780 That can include somebody who can write a complex mathematical equation on a wall.

00:45:26.800 Well, they can.

00:45:27.680 They're really smart.

00:45:28.560 My brother's son has autism and he's a great eight piano.

00:45:34.580 He's brilliant, but he can't go on an airplane.

00:45:37.980 They have a hard time taking care of him in public

00:45:40.220 and he can't take care of himself.

00:45:41.880 It's gonna be an ongoing and difficult discussion.

00:45:44.340 We're getting down to our last couple of minutes, I fear.

00:45:46.500 So we'll update and keep watching this as it unfolds.

00:45:50.360 Maybe we'll just kind of machine gun hit really fast.

00:45:52.560 The Alberta model, speaking about AHS

00:45:54.340 and for listeners outside of Alberta,

00:45:56.260 is Alberta Health Services uh Premier Smith's got the new model she's going to be splitting it up 0.99

00:46:01.860 is it a good thing or a bad thing I guess we'll hit fast here a good thing especially with um

00:46:07.540 the approach to addictions treatment and mental health that was announced uh yesterday contrasts

00:46:13.060 with British Columbia and the safe supply it's uh we're talking 180 180 180 she made the comment

00:46:18.900 that Alberta and British Columbia are basically an integrated drug market so what happens there

00:46:23.860 happens here we've had an unacceptable level of deaths but she's confident that splitting it up

00:46:29.380 like this is going to bring them down and i i just love the uh basic life orientation of the

00:46:36.340 alberta approach i mean if you just go by the numbers bc's numbers are going up ours are going

00:46:42.020 up bc's numbers are going up more why because they give the stuff away it's almost hopelessness

00:46:48.900 yeah you know like just where here at least we are in alberta the government is trying to keep

00:46:56.660 people alive trying to make their lives better trying to give them some hope of recovery and

00:47:02.500 becoming useful citizens to themselves well the families as well right yeah yeah so i mean that

00:47:08.500 that's it's just a little difference compared to this life and this main thing back to me

00:47:14.340 Let's hope the initiatives pay off and Alberta leads by example and finally starts fixing part

00:47:19.560 of Canada's very troubled health care system. Okay, and I'll just close out quickly with we

00:47:23.860 had with the no guns grabbed. I'll just hit on that fast. Good news, bad news story. The good

00:47:29.340 news is nobody's legal property and firearms have been seized by this federal government despite

00:47:33.480 them wanting to, but they wasted $45 million in not seizing our firearms. So it's still money

00:47:39.160 down the toilet. So there's the good news and the bad news out of it. And lots of other news

00:47:44.640 we'll be covering throughout the week at the Western Standard. So be sure to get a membership

00:47:48.000 if you haven't already, guys. It's $10 a month, $100 a year to help support us. Keep getting those

00:47:52.860 stories out there, those columns out there, and having these shows where we can discuss these

00:47:56.900 things. So thank you very much, Sean and Nigel, for joining me today. Boy, we had a lot to get

00:48:02.780 through. We covered the bulk of it. And we'll cover more of it next week, I guess.

00:48:07.600 And what fun it was.

00:48:09.380 All right.

00:48:10.820 Thanks again, and thank all of you for tuning in.

00:48:13.560 So, yes, tune in next week.

00:48:15.160 We will see you again and with a whole new fresh set of issues.

00:48:18.920 Canadian Shooting Sports Association, without the CSSA, our gun rights would have been taken long, long ago.

00:48:25.280 These guys are on the front lines helping to draft smart and intelligent firearms regulations and legislation in Canada.

00:48:32.700 and more importantly educating the public about how we keep guns out of the hands of the wrong

00:48:37.860 people to become a member it's absolutely worth every penny you can become a western

00:48:44.540 center member for just ten dollars a month or ninety nine dollars

Western Standard - April 04, 2024

Carbon tax protests didn't move the needle

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