Western Standard - Carney： A decision if necessary, but not necessarily a decision

00:00:00.000 Good day and welcome.

00:00:27.220 Today's August 6, 2025. I'm Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of the Western Standard.

00:00:32.460 You're watching the pipeline. I've got my usual crew of homies here. 1.00

00:00:37.160 Western Standard opinion editor, Nigel Hannaford, who is on his, he's got only two and a half days of work left until he is officially retired for the second time.

00:00:47.380 Officially retired for the second time. Yes. Drink it all in. The cup is running dry.

00:00:52.200 but like uh every good former employee uh he intends to be reincarnated come back as a

00:00:59.300 contractor still doing work with us you heard it here first ladies and gentlemen and another

00:01:05.340 former opinion editor who did the same uh we've got western standard senior alberta columnist

00:01:09.240 cory morgan it's hard to escape it's actually a career track this i thought it's just because

00:01:16.500 you love me yeah this must be it all right and uh coming back to us after an absence of a few

00:01:22.180 weeks we missed her dearly uh we've got erica barudis who is uh apparently got gas 0.85

00:01:29.180 okay that's a weird thing for people look over your i know i understand what the sign behind me

00:01:36.380 says yeah i don't have gas i'm in the presence of gas all right erica who's in the presence of gas

00:01:43.000 yes and what is my title derek what do i do i'm not doing it i just gave up on it

00:01:47.880 it's on the screen ah yes uh department head of applied politics and public affairs as

00:01:53.440 mackamy college i knew that not because it was on the screen yeah and i'm just here for nigel 0.74

00:01:58.860 that's why i'm here today as his farewell you break my heart you break my heart okay i think

00:02:06.220 it's good for ratings that i keep you in your place i think people like it yeah i think they

00:02:12.060 do. So let's continue. People, okay, people like the mean girl. All right. Well, we're going to

00:02:17.060 talk about why are federalists so terrified of the Alberta flag? The self-appointed leader of

00:02:27.020 the federalist stay in Canada side of the forthcoming maybe sort of referendums and former

00:02:36.820 deputy premier to Allison Redford, Thomas Lukasik, was caught. I don't know if caught's the right

00:02:44.400 word, but he's bragging about it, but we certainly picked it up once Cory Morgan found it. Caught

00:02:49.360 petitioning Safeway and other stores to take down that symbol of hate on a flag. No, it's not that

00:02:58.920 flag. It's the Alberta flag, old blue, ordering that they have to take down this symbol of

00:03:06.720 fascist oppression from stores, lest people look at Old Blue and seethe with hatred at Ottawa

00:03:16.540 and decide to become their own country. Or I'll talk about that. A pipeline, if necessary,

00:03:22.320 but not necessarily a pipeline. Mark Carney saying one thing, but setting up potentially another,

00:03:29.700 playing on kind of that old Canadian political trick of not appeasing those who need to be appeased,

00:03:39.920 but not really quite doing anything.

00:03:42.180 Speaking of which, where we're going to start, a Palestinian state, if necessary,

00:03:47.280 but not necessarily a Palestinian state.

00:03:51.300 Nigel, just last week, Prime Minister Mark Carney saying that Canada,

00:03:59.700 will recognize, intends to recognize a Palestinian state.

00:04:04.740 He hasn't formally recognized a Palestinian state yet.

00:04:08.900 But attaching certain conditions to it that make me think that if he does keep those conditions,

00:04:15.660 he'll never be recognizing a Palestinian state.

00:04:18.620 That's how I read it.

00:04:19.480 Well, that's called having your cake and eating it, too.

00:04:22.640 And that seems to be, I believe we're going to go into this a little bit more deeply later,

00:04:28.340 But by and large, Mr. Carney says what he would like to happen and then places conditions on it so that he's got an escape route if things change.

00:04:38.380 Now, in this case, it's not indigenous agreement and Quebec agreement that he's looking for.

00:04:45.000 That would be a pipeline. 0.87

00:04:47.000 But he wants to set three conditions on it.

00:04:52.020 that but hamas would not be part of any forthcoming uh going forward any uh palestinian state that the

00:05:03.540 hezbollah in in west bank will also disarm which to the some extent they've been disarmed but they

00:05:12.100 don't like it i can't imagine that they would ever want to to stay that way so you know you

00:05:16.660 you put these conditions out there and maybe they happen,

00:05:20.300 maybe they don't.

00:05:21.040 And if they don't,

00:05:21.600 you try.

00:05:24.960 Corey.

00:05:25.760 So,

00:05:25.940 yeah,

00:05:26.080 you did,

00:05:26.420 you know,

00:05:26.660 you put these kind of put down these conditions and as did some heads of

00:05:30.200 other governments around the world,

00:05:32.460 Hamas has to be disarmed.

00:05:34.000 It has to play no role in the government.

00:05:35.680 The Palestinian,

00:05:36.780 the hostages have to be released and said Palestinian state has to recognize 0.59

00:05:42.800 the right of Israel to exist.

00:05:44.480 I mean,

00:05:45.160 where the border should get drawn,

00:05:46.660 To some extent, it's a fair debate. To some extent, it's a fraught debate. But these conditions are actually under those conditions, if they were theoretically possible. I'd say, okay, actually, those are pretty reasonable conditions, I think, to recognize a Palestinian state. The Palestinians have to recognize the Israeli state and not go to war for maybe a period of, I don't know, two weeks, if they can do that.

00:06:10.500 for two new record yeah yeah um they're actually fairly i think reasonable demands to make that

00:06:17.820 if met i think would be you know a good you know grounds for which to recognize palestinian state

00:06:23.480 but i don't think there's any chance like hamas is uh i mean the gaza strip lurks worse than

00:06:33.140 tokyo or dresden right now it's gone and they're still fighting they're not disarming they're not

00:06:39.600 giving out the hostages. I'm not really sure. The only reason I can see them continuing to fight

00:06:46.600 is it's imposing an increasingly great political price on Israel and the Israeli government,

00:06:52.720 turning world opinion against them, not necessarily in favor of Hamas, but at least

00:06:58.740 against the Israelis. That's the only reason I can see why they still keep fighting at this point. 0.98

00:07:04.680 well they're ideological maniacs and you're asking for reason from them i mean their response to

00:07:10.360 having world countries saying okay let's reward them for their terrorism if they would just be

00:07:15.000 nice again and we'll give you your own state and what they do they released videos showing them

00:07:19.080 torturing the prisoners they still have in custody right now like yeah carney is no fool whatever he

00:07:26.360 may be there is no reasoning with hamas hamas made it pretty clear right off the bat no we aren't

00:07:32.680 disarming no we aren't releasing uh you know they've extended a nice big middle finger to the

00:07:38.120 countries asking for that and they want nothing less than the complete obliteration of israel 1.00

00:07:44.120 so i i don't know where this is going to end but carney won't he's just trying to play both sides

00:07:49.400 and he's playing weak i mean what do people expect israel's supposed to just leave them

00:07:52.840 there to keep firing more rockets and grabbing more hostages the reality is the world's going

00:07:57.480 to start calling for hamas to bloody well put the blame where it is well this is only going to end

00:08:02.120 when they stop. The Arab 1.00

00:08:04.180 League just came out.

00:08:06.220 They've come out, yeah.

00:08:07.940 That's a big blow against Hamas when even the Arab 1.00

00:08:10.280 League is like, guys, the jig

00:08:12.240 is up. Time to go.

00:08:14.020 The other thing that has to be understood, as you pointed out,

00:08:16.200 most of Gaza is rubble, and guess what? Hamas 0.99

00:08:18.200 is still hiding hostages and still launching rockets.

00:08:21.080 Gazans are complicit.

00:08:22.680 Not every one of them, but let's

00:08:24.200 not pretend that Hamas isn't operating 1.00

00:08:26.100 without the blessing of a large

00:08:28.280 part of the civilian population as

00:08:30.200 well. And I see it's showing

00:08:32.120 clearly that it doesn't seem to matter how much

00:08:33.780 abuse they take. The civilians won't turn 0.98

00:08:36.220 on Hamas. But this isn't

00:08:38.120 ending until Hamas is done. There's no other way 0.86

00:08:40.240 about this.

00:08:42.340 Erica, if

00:08:43.500 say Palestine 0.68

00:08:45.900 and I put that in air quotes, there's

00:08:48.140 two Palestinian governments. There's

00:08:50.180 Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority

00:08:52.040 in the West Bank and then

00:08:54.020 arguably Israel as well as a

00:08:56.060 third order of government there.

00:08:58.360 But if Palestine

00:09:00.120 if we can call it that, you know, disarmed Hamas. Hamas did play no role. The hostages are released

00:09:07.860 and they agreed to recognize Israel. They probably wouldn't recognize their claim on Jerusalem,

00:09:12.860 but let's say they recognized everything but, and that was just left as a point of negotiation for

00:09:17.900 later. Do you think, you know, Carney and others would be right in recognizing a Palestinian state

00:09:25.160 if those conditions could be fulfilled well i think we're talking about sunshines and rainbows

00:09:31.260 so sure and yeah and and and so sure but like cart before the horse and right now we like you

00:09:40.900 said but all the three of you separating hamas from the state of palestine is i see it pretty

00:09:48.320 unrealistic in the current state there's lots of what ifs that have to happen in order for that so

00:09:54.100 for our prime minister to come out and say, okay, all of these conditions, this, this, and this,

00:10:00.400 which an average Canadian isn't going through the fine print of these conditions that are

00:10:04.620 hypothetical to some degree. He's now sitting here saying all that Canadians pick up is I am

00:10:11.600 going to recognize in September with other nations. And I will say there is some Eastern

00:10:17.200 or Western European countries that are also saying the same, but that we're going to recognize

00:10:22.280 Palestine as a state. I can tell you from the left leaning people that I know and follow on

00:10:26.920 social media, that was the whole message was like, regardless of that fine print, the prime minister

00:10:32.300 is going to recognize Palestine as a state. And I think what that did was really divide our country 0.92

00:10:38.980 even more. It also, you know, resulted in tariffs from the south to respond to that decision that

00:10:49.320 our prime minister premeditated or preemptively stated before even getting to September. So

00:10:56.500 sure, I think that we could say that's an appropriate thing if A, B, C, D, E, F, G

00:11:03.060 happen. I just think we're still at A. And so for what this means for Canada, we've already got

00:11:11.320 some backlash of taking that position. I also think it's setting a tone where if you've ever

00:11:17.880 gone to ottawa in the last year or so um the disruption of their protests um we've seen it

00:11:25.640 all across the country we've seen post-secondaries be taken over um to stand out for the palestinians

00:11:33.280 the fact that we are canada and we have taken an aggressive position on either side

00:11:40.000 is disappointing to me at best i i do agree with that i mean it's i think we've got to get out of

00:11:47.640 habit particularly of those of us on the more conservative side of thinking we actually really

00:11:52.480 have a stake there we don't it's a different country it's a different part of the world

00:11:55.480 i i wish everyone there well wish them peace and for everyone there's there's side both sides have

00:12:03.220 been very guilty of hurting innocent people and i just i think us taking a stance either way

00:12:08.640 especially when you said to what benefit of us exactly what is in our national interest what

00:12:15.660 national interest is being served. So, Nigel, this raises the question, why? Why did Mark Carney

00:12:22.360 say this? I think Erica is correct that most people just heard Canada is going to be recognizing

00:12:29.540 Palestinian state. I think, you know, how many people see people do this all the time? They just

00:12:35.060 read the headline on X or wherever. They don't read the story. If they read the story, I actually

00:12:41.220 don't think it's a particularly unreasonable way to go about it. I don't think there's any chance

00:12:46.880 Hamas ever agrees to it, because it's too reasonable. They won't agree to it. Maybe I'm

00:12:52.340 wrong. But like, why? Is it simply the domestic voting audience that he's trying to appeal to,

00:13:02.340 you know, the combination of kind of campus lefties and, you know, the large and growing

00:13:07.880 Islamic vote in Canada by saying this, but then attaching conditions to it that make

00:13:13.720 it highly unlikely that if he sticks to those conditions, that Canada will ever be recognizing

00:13:17.400 a Palestinian state in the near future.

00:13:19.720 Well, I think after the events of October the 7th, 2023, nobody wants to see Hamas rewarded 0.99

00:13:26.500 with its own state.

00:13:28.700 But Carney is correct.

00:13:30.020 Mr. Carney, I should say, is correct in this much that a two-state solution has always

00:13:37.020 been Canada's policy, even during the ministry of Stephen Harper, who was famously very,

00:13:44.780 very pro-Israel, and therefore by definition opposed to Hamas and Hezbollah.

00:13:51.820 He was, I pulled it off the files here, he made this statement in West Bank during an

00:13:57.780 interview back in 2014, and he said, let me just say the position of the government of

00:14:04.820 Canada, I think, as you know well, is we favor and indeed believe that these matters can only

00:14:11.940 be resolved through a two-state solution with two states. And of course, here came his conditions,

00:14:19.220 which are essentially the same as Carney's, just differently worded, two states that are viable,

00:14:24.420 prosperous, secure, democratic, and living in peace. So this has always been the Canadian

00:14:31.140 position. Mr. Carney, why did he say it now? That puzzles me deeply. I have a theory, but

00:14:39.060 it isn't actually worth much. Why did he say it now when we were in the middle of tariff

00:14:48.420 negotiations with the United States? First, he encapsulated supply management into law,

00:14:57.060 And then he said he was prepared to recognize the Palestinian state under certain conditions, knowing full well that President Trump, A, hates supply management, B, is strongly pro-Israel. Why would you poke him like that at such a sensitive time? Like it was the day before the August, July the 31st and the time limit there.

00:15:19.320 So, all I can think of is that perhaps Mr. Carney thought there isn't going to be a deal anyway.

00:15:28.300 We're never going to close the gap on steel and aluminium tariffs.

00:15:32.440 So I'll pick up a little bit of free goodwill from people who don't like me

00:15:39.020 by saying that under certain conditions I'm prepared to recognize a Palestine state.

00:15:43.960 Maybe he even thinks that's the right thing to do.

00:15:45.900 But if he does, well, I guess other prime ministers have thought the same thing under the same kind of conditions that he outlined.

00:15:53.400 He didn't think there was a big political cost in doing so.

00:15:58.120 Well, OK, before we move on to the pipeline side of things, Corey, I still haven't found a satisfactory answer to why he's done this.

00:16:10.840 i'm not sure i agree with you nigel on on the trump thing disagreement on the pipeline is 0.86

00:16:18.340 a good thing yeah yeah i'm not sure i agree uh on that like look israel i the united states is not

00:16:25.980 acting in its national self-interest on the israel question right now uh it's in the united states

00:16:30.860 united states of self-interest to have peace in the region i i don't think netanyahu was a big

00:16:38.060 fan of that. I think while he was

00:16:40.040 appalled by the October 7th attacks, he also

00:16:42.060 saw it as the perfect excuse

00:16:43.480 to invade. I think he

00:16:45.360 it's pretty amply clear that he wanted

00:16:47.940 to. And I think his intention

00:16:49.920 is ultimately to annex Gaza 1.00

00:16:51.720 and expand the borders of Israel.

00:16:54.100 That

00:16:54.520 seems to align with where he's going

00:16:57.900 on this. But

00:16:59.840 Canada's national interest is

00:17:01.940 served primarily by getting a trade deal.

00:17:03.880 That is by far the most important foreign 1.00

00:17:05.940 policy goal for the Canadian national interest

00:17:08.020 right now and it's not in canada's national interest to piss off trump but it's uh well

00:17:15.760 i'm sympathetic to trump on a lot of these things i don't think that's necessarily his business

00:17:19.900 about our foreign policy on on that issue so i i i don't think it was that i think it's more likely

00:17:28.340 he's he's trying to shore up you know a domestic islamic voting bloc it's a very very large block

00:17:37.340 in Canada. And by saying this, he's, you know, making them happy. But by attaching these conditions

00:17:45.020 to it, he's making it unlikely that he would ever have to act on it and alienate Jewish voters,

00:17:50.360 which have traditionally made up a large block of liberal voters. Yeah, well, they made no bones

00:17:55.240 about that. There was a couple of liberal members who said, I mean, there was a lot of candid

00:17:57.880 conversation with one who said, you know, the demographics of my riding, I have to keep the

00:18:03.440 Islamic community happier. I'm not going to win my seat. And before Carney came out with that

00:18:08.400 statement on potential statehood for Palestine, it was said that he's dealing with caucus

00:18:12.740 pressures. He has a number of his own members of parliament who were pressuring him to do this.

00:18:18.440 He gave himself an out with the conditions that he attached to it. But yeah, there's a lot at play

00:18:24.080 in this. And some of it's just pure politics in keeping his own caucus happy. The Jewish vote

00:18:30.060 has always been a tiny vote, though they probably

00:18:32.140 donate $1,000 for every dollar

00:18:34.120 that an Islamic person puts forward. So, well, you want the 0.98

00:18:36.120 money or the votes? He chose the votes for now.

00:18:38.720 But there's just

00:18:40.180 less, when you're looking at it politically, there's less

00:18:42.180 to gain in Canada by

00:18:43.480 something divided between Jews and Muslims,

00:18:45.860 taking the Jewish side versus the Muslim? 0.90

00:18:49.760 Well, we're

00:18:50.300 going to...

00:18:51.520 I think we've got a nice, neat theme here.

00:18:55.340 You know, we're kind of

00:18:56.280 Canadian...

00:18:57.860 People in Canadian media, especially colonists, do this way too often.

00:19:00.440 I'm guilty of it twice today, you know, paraphrasing William Mackenzie King

00:19:06.560 and saying, conscription if necessary, but not necessarily conscription,

00:19:09.980 which really was just the most Canadian political thing to say ever,

00:19:14.700 which is why we use it so often.

00:19:16.160 It's this equivocation of not having to really take one side.

00:19:19.740 You know, the Canadian generals in the Second World War were demanding conscription.

00:19:22.740 We need more troops, but there was huge opposition to it in Quebec.

00:19:27.860 So we had conscription, sort of, but only volunteers would actually go fight.

00:19:32.940 The conscripts would stay and, you know, guard a warehouse in Quebec City somewhere, you know, before the ships leave.

00:19:41.260 So, yeah, a Palestinian state if necessary, but not necessarily a Palestinian state.

00:19:45.140 Same goes, I think, for pipelines.

00:19:48.080 Nigel and I were talking about this this morning.

00:19:50.540 You know, he's brought forward.

00:19:51.660 He said, we're going to build pipelines.

00:19:53.220 We're going to be an energy superpower, and that includes oil and gas, which require pipelines now.

00:19:58.220 We're going to build pipelines.

00:20:01.460 Asterisk.

00:20:02.500 If everyone agrees.

00:20:04.820 As long as, yes, we will build pipelines.

00:20:07.860 As long as Quebec is okay with it.

00:20:10.720 As long as every single indigenous group, even vaguely and peripherally affected, agrees to it.

00:20:18.320 We'll build pipelines.

00:20:20.800 I don't know.

00:20:22.040 you could take it from here. Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing with Carney is what we're

00:20:27.440 learning is he's a little mushy middle. He doesn't want to take sides on anything. He is trying to

00:20:33.300 not be the bad guy in the conflict in Gaza. And so he's hoping that he'll be like, okay, here's

00:20:41.680 all the conditions. Oh, sorry, Hamas couldn't separate themselves from the Palestinian people

00:20:47.820 or couldn't remove themselves from this conflict.

00:20:51.180 Therefore, don't blame me, blame them.

00:20:53.320 I think the same thing is, oh, I'm going to be pro-energy,

00:20:56.600 like renewable and traditional.

00:20:59.560 But if it's going to be someone's fault,

00:21:02.460 it's going to be Quebec's because they won't give you market access

00:21:06.580 or it's going to be the Indigenous that are going to, you know,

00:21:10.540 stomp and scream and fight saying that they're not getting their fair share

00:21:15.680 or whatever it is.

00:21:16.680 And so I think he's trying to be something for everyone and half baking all of these policies that he's announcing or positions he's announcing.

00:21:25.040 And the pipelines where we've already seen his first meetings with indigenous groups, mainly in northern B.C., have basically said, like, nice try, guy, but like, we're not going to entertain this.

00:21:39.200 See you later. He can now point to them to be the bad guys.

00:21:43.240 And I think that's what he's trying to set up.

00:21:44.900 He's trying to be this prime minister for everybody.

00:21:47.780 And he's going to end up being prime minister for nobody.

00:21:51.420 Corey, I don't know.

00:21:54.300 We haven't seen, we have seen a bill on this, actually, you know, the National Infrastructure

00:22:00.000 Priorities, whatever the building Canada, the building Canada.

00:22:03.760 Yeah.

00:22:04.920 We've seen something, but it's, it still seems nebulous.

00:22:09.280 We haven't had the application for a pipeline come in yet.

00:22:13.240 but requiring essentially unanimous consent of everyone gives everyone a veto and when you have

00:22:19.560 a veto you could demand so much more to the point where it might not even make sense to go forward

00:22:24.500 um i mean provinces should be consulted i guess for pipelines going through i don't think that's

00:22:30.100 unreasonable uh first nations should be consulted if it goes to their land there should be some

00:22:35.000 benefit to them uh but if everyone's got a hard veto uh it ups everyone's negotiating power to

00:22:42.700 the nth degree, to the point where the proponent is facing so many roadblocks that it could be

00:22:50.120 damn near impossible to make a profitable case to do these things. Yeah, he has to, again,

00:22:55.200 it's an effective theme. He's got to show a stance, yes or no, because this wishy-washy thing,

00:23:00.460 companies aren't going to commit billions to that. He's got to stand up and define the difference

00:23:05.520 between consent and consult. Sean Fraser, his own minister, dared to do that, what, a couple of

00:23:10.620 months ago and he got pilloried for it and apologized because he actually stated the law

00:23:15.500 that I'm sorry, but we don't need consent from indigenous people. We are obligated to consult 0.90

00:23:20.400 and they went bananas and he retracted it and apologized, but he was absolutely right. So

00:23:25.980 if they can't even say it out loud, no company's going to put the money in. No application's going

00:23:31.880 to come. And I fear what he's building up is he's an ideological leader as well, though he can say,

00:23:36.120 well, look, I tried, but it would be similar to like Justin Trudeau. There's obviously no business

00:23:39.160 case because no private interest has stepped up and he'll lay it on that rather than the reality

00:23:44.540 that nobody in the right mind would invest in that climate. Why spend hundreds of millions,

00:23:48.560 possibly billions on the studies and the applications and all of that only to be

00:23:53.280 hitting a brick wall as other companies have done? Nigel, I think building up what Corey said,

00:24:00.260 I think in both cases, recognizing a Palestinian state on pipelines, I think he actually

00:24:08.180 wants a no on both, I think. Just judging by what he's set up as the criteria for both,

00:24:15.920 he just doesn't want to be the one to say no. On a Palestinian state, hey, look, I want to 0.95

00:24:21.400 recognize a Palestinian state. I want to go there. But look, these are the reasonable conditions I

00:24:26.120 set out. Hamas won't disarm, etc., etc. Sorry, it wasn't my choice. That was them. Similar on a 0.78

00:24:34.600 pipeline. I think he wants to know because we know he's got a long ideological track record.

00:24:39.200 He's written books on this stuff. You know, was he a sudden convert to pipelines? No,

00:24:45.420 he's a sudden convert to political reality. And if you keep Alberta in Canada, you can't just say

00:24:51.660 no, no pipelines. If you want to appear to be the reasonable moderate guy who's not as crazy as the

00:24:57.260 ideologue Justin Trudeau, you can't just say no to pipelines. But he can go through this,

00:25:02.780 set up a new set of roadblocks

00:25:04.720 to the point where other companies

00:25:06.820 aren't willing to go forward. They don't have to be projected.

00:25:09.020 They're going to say, hey, these roadblocks are

00:25:10.640 we just can't get through it.

00:25:12.660 And then they withdraw, as Corey said.

00:25:14.500 He is not the one saying no to pipelines.

00:25:16.840 It's just, ah, those pipelines couldn't

00:25:18.580 meet these reasonable conditions

00:25:20.440 that I've set out. I think this is

00:25:22.500 actually just very smart

00:25:24.500 politics. This is

00:25:25.980 3D chess that he is

00:25:28.560 able to get a no on these things he

00:25:30.460 wants a no to by just setting

00:25:32.440 you know setting a line that he knows no one's going to meet you know on those two particular

00:25:40.340 items i think you may be right i mean before you came in this morning we were having a discussion

00:25:46.500 about sometimes just doing nothing until you're absolutely forced to do something is smart

00:25:53.920 politics the issue i have with that is that sometimes you want a politician to actually

00:26:04.160 say this is what i believe in and although there is opposition i am going forward you know one of

00:26:10.480 the one of the things that is helping us right now is that quite a steel and aluminium except

00:26:17.120 that a lot of Canadian exports are presently protected by the US and Mexico-Canada Trade

00:26:26.880 Agreement, otherwise known as CUSMA, and it is a successor to what? To the North American

00:26:34.480 Free Trade Association, which Brian Mulroney won, of course, back in the 1980s. Well, if

00:26:41.200 If Brian Mulroney had taken the Carney-esque approach to politics, he would have probably

00:26:47.160 found a reason not to complete the negotiations that led to NAFTA, because a lot of people

00:26:54.140 didn't want it.

00:26:55.140 The unions were dead set against it, the NDP were campaigning on it, the Liberals didn't

00:26:59.440 like it, but Mulroney stuck to his guns, he got NAFTA, and today we have the advantage

00:27:06.880 of that through the legacy treaty that still protects some Canadian exports from the tariffs

00:27:16.720 that Mr. Trump has applied over and above.

00:27:19.520 So there is a value to a politician believing in something, going forward, making it happen,

00:27:25.380 making it work, and staying the course.

00:27:27.580 What we see from Mr. Carney is actually a recipe for the Canadian drift that we have

00:27:35.380 been experiencing since certainly since the uh start of mr trudeau's uh coming to office back

00:27:42.840 in 2015 it's getting us nowhere it's taking us nowhere maybe if you actually want to build a

00:27:49.280 stronger canada i think mr carney may find he's going to have to be a little stronger himself

00:27:54.320 but how did brian mulrooney's prime membership ship end he did take big bold gambles it paid

00:28:02.900 off on NAFTA, but he also

00:28:04.960 took a big, bold gamble on the

00:28:06.700 GST, and ultimately that

00:28:08.820 policy did endure. It endures

00:28:10.920 to this day. It was a very

00:28:12.700 it was wildly unpopular,

00:28:15.120 but in hindsight, everyone agrees

00:28:16.740 that was a no-brainer

00:28:18.580 fix to the economy

00:28:20.660 and the finances of the country.

00:28:22.720 He took big, bold

00:28:24.720 gambles on the Constitution at Charlottetown

00:28:26.920 and at Meech Lake.

00:28:29.560 I think they were well-intentioned,

00:28:31.180 but they were terrible, and right

00:28:32.820 defeated but um they ultimately blew up his political coalition and left him politically

00:28:40.780 radioactive until pretty much near the end of his life um making big bold decisions i think is the

00:28:47.980 reason you should be in politics to change things but it invariably i think shortens your political

00:28:53.320 life it it's going to make you unpopular it's going to it's going to limit your time in office

00:28:58.220 It's going to limit how many people like you.

00:29:01.920 If your goal is power over the long term, the more indirect, some would say cowardly approach,

00:29:10.540 but, you know, the indirect, you know, maybe more, it's the Sun Tzu indirect approach.

00:29:14.780 Perhaps that is better.

00:29:15.940 I'm not sure Brian Mulroney is a great example of big political gambles paying off very well.

00:29:20.400 Well, it paid off for the country.

00:29:21.900 I mean, when you're choosing a prime minister, you're going to either pick a guy who wants to be the prime minister, or you can pick a guy who wants to get something done.

00:29:32.700 The guy who wants to get something done may well pay the political cost.

00:29:37.220 You use up your political capital, and then you disappear.

00:29:40.700 It's unfortunate.

00:29:42.260 But, you know, I've never been a big Brian Mulroney fan.

00:29:46.600 But right now, I can see where what he did is paying off for Mr. Carney, little people.

00:29:54.180 Erica, this might be a good pivot to where we're going to go.

00:29:58.080 You know, I've said that Mark Carney is, you know, on both Palestine and pipelines.

00:30:02.500 He's putting up these conditions that he doesn't, I suspect he doesn't think will be fulfilled.

00:30:09.060 And these ideas can be shot down, not by himself.

00:30:12.040 He could say, ah, it was out of my hands.

00:30:14.500 Some would accuse Danielle Smith of doing the same thing with Ottawa. 0.94

00:30:18.500 She has put down conditions by which Alberta would be happy and content in Confederation.

00:30:25.020 That's ending equalization essentially to Quebec and Ontario, that we build pipelines,

00:30:30.940 we end Ottawa's meddling in areas of jurisdiction under the guise of the environment, etc.

00:30:36.240 She has her seven big conditions, or 11 if it's parsed out more.

00:30:41.460 Some would say that she knows Ottawa.

00:30:45.300 I've read some of these lefty columnists who say she knows Ottawa.

00:30:49.720 We'll never say yes to these things.

00:30:52.180 I always consider those to be an extremely low bar for accepting rule by Ottawa.

00:30:58.960 Yes, of course, we should not be funding Quebec from Alberta tax dollars.

00:31:03.260 We should not be allowing Ottawa to meddle in our provincial jurisdiction, etc.

00:31:07.920 For me, those conditions are not enough to make me content with Ottawa rule, but she's been accused, and I can see where they're at least coming from, of maybe similarly setting up these conditions that she knows cannot be fulfilled, and that acts as a cause for her potentially to come out in favour of an independence referendum at some point. What are your thoughts?

00:31:31.440 Well, I think a few things. First off, she is playing by the rule book of how the Constitution is structured, where in this case with pipelines, the federal government, to many of our points, is consulting versus consent, working if the provinces are asking for it and they're okay, like that's their natural resources falls to the province.

00:31:54.980 And so I think she's playing the game a little bit more by the playbook where the jurisdiction of those national projects or our international relations is up to the jurisdiction of the prime minister.

00:32:10.040 So I do sympathize with what you're saying on is it, you know, pot calling kettle black.

00:32:16.320 I actually don't think it really is as clear as that because she's looking at things that should be reset to ultimately get back to, say, equalization where the province are equal partners to the federal government, where each of them stay in their own lanes.

00:32:32.500 So, but to your point, is it ever going to actually like, is an equalization formula change really realistic? Who knows? But I would say-

00:32:43.800 Well, even Paul Yeager doesn't, he says he won't change it.

00:32:45.720 No, or looking at different things. So, yeah. And so where I think Alberta is going and I think where we want to take the conversation is, okay, what does that mean for Albertans? I mean, I still get really happy that she's standing up for that because there's other provinces that do.

00:33:01.500 I'm in Saskatchewan where I was born and raised right now, and they feel the same way.

00:33:04.820 They're just not as good about advocating for it vocally on the national stage.

00:33:10.200 So we'll see, you know, how that plays out.

00:33:13.120 She's also making very bold moves here that could play out really well for her or not.

00:33:18.520 So I think we also kind of were foreshadowing Alberta from some of the Brian Mulroney decisions,

00:33:23.920 how health care reform is going to play out, how looking at some of these exploring pension,

00:33:29.980 that kind of flopped. Now we're looking at the provincial police and the Alberta next panels.

00:33:34.680 I'm actually going to the one in Edmonton on the 14th. So I should be able to report back how that

00:33:40.620 lands. But either way, how we started this show is you talking about one of my least favorite

00:33:46.580 politicians or wannabe politicians, Thomas Lukasik. I don't care how you feel about federalism. I love

00:33:52.840 federalism on how it's actually supposed to be constructed. But the fact that we have an

00:33:57.020 individual that's trying to say that the Alberta flag is a negative thing is, I think, completely

00:34:04.280 distasteful and something that our viewers should be hearing more about to really educate themselves

00:34:11.460 on what that means for unity and for our province. Yeah. All right. We're transitioning beautifully.

00:34:18.540 Corey, it was actually your tweet that brought this to my attention. You found, okay, so just

00:34:25.980 people know most people don't know who this guy is i'm thinking i don't know he was the first

00:34:30.700 politician at the legislature i worked for oh yeah he was the first politician i worked for him

00:34:36.140 sorry you worked for him yeah when he was the minister of education my first job at the

00:34:42.380 legislature so it's a whole yeah thank god you found jesus all right um well okay so just so

00:34:50.940 people know most people don't know who this guy is he uh i guess he was a progressive conservative

00:34:58.720 mla uh when allison redford comes to power uh wins in 2012 she makes him deputy premier uh with no

00:35:07.660 other portfolio can we just mention that he is the deputy premier with no other portfolio basically

00:35:12.360 giving someone a make-believe job so they'd be quiet yeah yeah generally when i was there i can

00:35:16.980 say it yeah when you see a leader a deputy leader of a party without a portfolio it means uh they're

00:35:23.140 probably not very good normally um so uh but anyway this he fell out of that office with

00:35:30.460 alice redford's collapse and you know you have like a twenty thousand dollar phone bill or

00:35:34.180 something always on vacation that he put the taxpayers and so he was out he lost his seat

00:35:37.960 in 2015 when the ndp came in uh and i don't know if he's had a job since i think he's just been on

00:35:43.840 Twitter. I don't know how

00:35:45.840 he's been paying his bills. Maybe CFC makes a lot.

00:35:48.000 I don't know. I don't know.

00:35:49.660 I'm not aware. He's a kept man. That's 0.98

00:35:51.860 his business. Yeah. But as far

00:35:53.880 as I know, he's just been tweeting for the last decade

00:35:55.700 or so. But

00:35:57.520 he has fashioned himself.

00:35:59.900 Captain Canada here. He

00:36:01.700 is...

00:36:02.840 Yeah. So he was up to

00:36:05.720 something. You found it. We've done a bunch on it

00:36:07.740 since. But just tell people exactly

00:36:09.720 what happened. Yeah. And to be fair to Luke Kassig

00:36:11.700 and I find him as odious as most of us here

00:36:13.760 do. It wasn't him

00:36:15.480 directly who decided it was

00:36:17.740 a good idea to crap on Alberta's flag.

00:36:19.560 It was one of his followers on

00:36:21.780 his Facebook group for

00:36:23.400 I guess I've got to give some more backstory.

00:36:25.660 Lukasik is trying a counter petition to the

00:36:27.700 independence movement to hold

00:36:29.600 a fake referendum which would just

00:36:31.700 say we're all happy we're going to stay in Canada, which

00:36:33.440 doesn't change anything. It's like a trolling move.

00:36:36.100 They have a book that they call, or a

00:36:37.640 Facebook page they called Forever Canadian, where they

00:36:39.620 were organizing and gathering

00:36:41.400 other members to push this petition and get it going. And I just checked it out and I scrolled

00:36:47.440 my way down. I guess more of it curiosity. And I found this posting from one of their supporters

00:36:51.580 who had put a picture up on that group days before saying, yeah, I'd found this Alberta flag

00:36:57.420 hanging in a Safeway Medicine hat. And I complained to the Western managers and they pulled it down

00:37:03.680 and we got to stop, you know, getting, we got to get these symbols torn down of this separatism

00:37:07.920 this terrible thing is the Alberta flag. Part of why I lay this on Lukasik's feet is, hey,

00:37:13.060 if you're going to head the movement, you wear what your supporters do and you control their

00:37:17.800 communications on a page that you is representing you. I mean, you can't control this one dingbat, 0.98

00:37:23.180 but I thought he was, he was pushing. No, no. But if he'd done that five days before, by then,

00:37:30.900 somebody should have said, you know, we might want to pull that off there before some clown 0.97

00:37:34.980 like Cory Morgan spots it and throws it out on X and completely embarrasses you. This went bad to

00:37:39.980 the point that they shut down that Facebook page. Lukasik has reopened his old campaign page from

00:37:44.940 2014 to use as a new Facebook hub to try and rejuvenate because you don't attack the symbol

00:37:52.640 of a province. I mean, symbols are important. They're emotionally, they're attached to people.

00:37:58.360 You can attack the independence movement. You can attack the individuals, but when you start

00:38:02.800 besmirching the flag of Alberta that had the exact opposite effect of what they were looking to do,

00:38:09.540 but it does show the mindset of the following, because it wasn't just this gentleman who did

00:38:14.380 that to Safeway, which by the way, Safeway put it right back up once the backlash hit them.

00:38:17.720 I think they just wanted to sell groceries. They didn't want to get in the middle of them. Yes,

00:38:20.840 it was just a flag, but it was all the other people commenting below, gee, where do I contact

00:38:25.940 my local Safeway? I better do this for other businesses. That also started to show, and that's

00:38:29.900 why they had to get rid of that Facebook page, because it's not just

00:38:31.920 one nut, it's Lukasik's

00:38:33.980 gang of little elbows-up minions 0.83

00:38:35.520 started going after the Alberta flag.

00:38:38.120 And they actually had

00:38:39.900 to crash their whole page to get out of the mess they stepped

00:38:41.900 in. It says a lot about how well-organized

00:38:43.780 his little movement is, too.

00:38:45.260 Erica.

00:38:47.580 Okay, so Lukasik, I guess, wasn't behind

00:38:49.880 the campaign itself to remove Alberta

00:38:51.700 flags, so if I miss...

00:38:53.720 Yeah, no, I thought the same, but that was

00:38:55.820 because I read the same thing.

00:38:57.700 But it is his organization,

00:38:59.900 and i i half agree with you cory that you have to wear what your supporters do i have to i mean like

00:39:05.980 anyone who's ever been a part of a big movement or in a political party knows you've always got

00:39:09.920 some nutters but if someone goes particularly far off the reserve you've got to make the point that

00:39:15.400 no that guy doesn't represent us i i think that's fair and you don't have to do it for every little

00:39:19.600 asshole who says something stupid but if you've got something and you've left it up there and 0.88

00:39:23.680 your people are clearly ginned up and excited about it no you have to wear that if you if you're not

00:39:28.260 going to condemn it. But I, okay, coming back to you, because I didn't know you worked for

00:39:33.580 Lukasik. But when I was discussing this, when I was discussing this with Nigel and Corey this

00:39:41.120 morning, when we're figuring out what we're going to talk about, I thought, isn't it incredible that

00:39:46.340 Thomas Lukasik is the face of the Federalist cause here? And I thought, you know, if I was

00:39:51.920 running like the, an Alberta counterintelligence agency, like Daniel Smith created the Alberta

00:39:57.280 cia and i was in charge of it or something and i got to do all sorts of subversive counter

00:40:02.880 intelligence things i would have planted thomas lukasik as as like the boss of the federalist

00:40:10.200 side if i could have picked like which greasy unarticulate inarticulate uh 0.97

00:40:18.920 disreputable guy can i get to lead the other side so it's sort of discredit that side i'd

00:40:25.740 been like, ding, ding, ding, Thomas Lukasik. That's the guy we want. How in the hell have

00:40:32.660 the Federalist side seemingly accepted Thomas Lukasik as their captain in Canada here?

00:40:39.900 Well, I think he's been positioning himself by seeking a job for the last decade of becoming

00:40:45.780 very much a, you know, distancing himself from what he once was, which was a red Tory to a

00:40:52.580 pure red liberal. And so he has been very vocal, hated Jason Kenney, like when they were both

00:41:01.780 ministers, they fought very publicly, as I think many might remember, he didn't like Daniel Smith

00:41:10.240 ever. So this was a great opportunity to give someone that wanted it a platform. Now, I will

00:41:16.740 say Thomas worked really hard, like he was a very hardworking MLA, very good to his constituents,

00:41:22.580 So ideologically, I disagree with everything that he said, but he is a hard worker.

00:41:31.520 So I think from the left, they're like, well, this is a guy that will actually roll up their

00:41:35.360 sleeves and pound pavement and be loud about it.

00:41:39.700 And, you know, not being born and raised here or coming here at a young age has a story

00:41:44.540 that might be relatable to a lot of people we want to get behind this movement.

00:41:49.520 And so I can see on paper or maybe just doing a quick search of him. But you're right. If I was running like oppo research or like behind the scenes stuff, I also would put Thomas Lukasik there because I think it actually does help contrast between Danielle Smith or even any of the individuals working towards looking at what separatism or independence would look like.

00:42:16.020 I would love to have Kamas Lukasik as the alternative because I don't think it helps

00:42:20.380 their cause. I guess just quickly before we go to our

00:42:24.420 parting shots, Nigel,

00:42:26.880 the federalist conservatives in Alberta, I mean a majority, a pretty big

00:42:32.380 majority of Alberta self-identified conservative voters say

00:42:36.320 they support independence, but there's a pretty sizable minority

00:42:39.880 who do not, who are federalists.

00:42:42.580 and that's disproportionately a higher number

00:42:47.260 the higher up the political food chain you go

00:42:49.360 you've got your Jason Kenney's, etc.

00:42:52.720 How do you think those guys are going to feel

00:42:54.940 marching in Thomas' little band?

00:42:59.400 Well, you know, they don't have to wait

00:43:01.380 to march in his band to feel a bit awkward

00:43:03.860 because they may still be Federalists

00:43:06.400 but that doesn't mean they like the values

00:43:09.560 that the Liberals are pushing

00:43:12.280 and imposing on the rest of the country they don't want that in here in alberta so there's

00:43:17.480 not willing they're just really not quite ready to uh to raise the revolutionary flag but

00:43:24.440 you know people aren't happy i think thomas is gonna be the gift that keeps giving oh i'm

00:43:31.080 planning on making a match i think he's the next nenshi like that was a great gift for conservatives 0.50

00:43:37.080 to have Nenshi as the NDP, and now

00:43:39.080 we have Thomas

00:43:40.260 leading Loud and Proud, the

00:43:42.560 You don't think one Nenshi 0.76

00:43:45.080 is enough?

00:43:46.900 If it helps our movement,

00:43:49.000 they can both do whatever they want.

00:43:51.680 Okay.

00:43:52.600 Alright, well let's move it into

00:43:54.820 Parting Shots, since you've been missing

00:43:56.560 from us for some time.

00:43:59.060 Erica, why don't you start? Well, I was here when you

00:44:00.900 weren't, just for the record, and we had quite a time.

00:44:03.100 That was one week, and you guys

00:44:05.280 said, I know Derek's not watching,

00:44:06.800 i watched no i think we don't miss him i think that was different and i don't remember but

00:44:12.000 something along those lines anyways okay my parting shot is not directed at you derek

00:44:17.200 um it is directed at elections canada uh i think it's actual complete and an insult to democracy

00:44:23.520 that after what happened in the carlton riding of pierre polyev that they weren't looking to

00:44:30.240 streamline or make this process or disregard or like make some quick changes in regulations

00:44:36.560 or something to address the fact of having 200 candidates, all 180 or so that have the same

00:44:44.400 CFO, the same official agent, all of these things, same signatures. Like to me, that is not a

00:44:50.980 democratic reflection of how Canada is supposed to work. And so I know that they've made this piss

00:44:58.360 poor attempt to list all of the candidates. Now you have to write them in. But as a result,

00:45:05.260 I will personally be going and scrutineering to make sure that every vote for Pierre and the Conservatives is clear and counted and that they can't make excuses for misspelling or any of that sort.

00:45:18.420 So I think it's like a, you know, half assed solution to something that they should have addressed from the outset.

00:45:25.420 OK, Nigel. Oh, no, no. You're going to be the last one today because today's your last parting shot.

00:45:30.080 Corey? Well I'll be quick here

00:45:32.240 Travis Donridge is the latest

00:45:34.120 senior CBC reporter who

00:45:36.140 has left and

00:45:37.880 has been speaking out about the working conditions at the

00:45:40.220 mother corp there and Catherine

00:45:42.120 Marshall's his lawyer and I caught her in an interview

00:45:44.320 where she's speaking of some of the things she's

00:45:46.240 learning about the working conditions and this just says

00:45:48.180 so much about the CBC

00:45:49.300 apparently they have

00:45:51.760 designated crying rooms

00:45:53.980 for staff within the CBC

00:45:55.740 if you're overwhelmed, if it's all

00:45:58.120 just too much. If you just can't take it anymore, we shouldn't have you crying around the rest of

00:46:02.260 you. So go to your designated crying room, have a good cry and get it out. What a pathetic 0.97

00:46:07.580 organization. Well, that's what I call your office here, the crying room. I mean, when you make me

00:46:10.780 cry, we have it right in public in front of everybody. And if I didn't hear you, we play it.

00:46:15.740 Your desk is actually not at all. You're in the middle of the newsroom. So when you cry, we all

00:46:19.340 hear it. That's right. Yeah. I'm going to take mine real, real quick. You get the last one.

00:46:25.540 and it's not really a regular parting shot

00:46:28.340 but I just want to say I've become addicted to the

00:46:30.080 Tucker Carlson podcast lately

00:46:31.800 it is so

00:46:34.300 taboo and so in

00:46:36.180 depth

00:46:36.580 he's just the most

00:46:40.060 incredible guests on

00:46:41.360 exploring

00:46:43.280 I'm listening

00:46:46.420 on the Oklahoma City bombing right now

00:46:48.200 I thought I knew everything about it

00:46:49.840 in quite a bit of detail

00:46:51.080 I'm learning all sorts of new stuff

00:46:52.720 so it's not a regular parting shot in the news

00:46:55.280 I just want to call attention to it. I normally don't

00:46:57.440 listen. I don't consume a lot of American

00:46:59.160 news content. I'm very much

00:47:01.340 an exception to most Canadians who actually

00:47:03.240 prefer American news over Canadian.

00:47:05.140 But I just want to flag attention to that.

00:47:07.000 That has become a phenomenal

00:47:08.660 program to listen to.

00:47:11.600 And for his

00:47:12.820 final parting shot, we will have him

00:47:15.100 back in the future, but his final parting shot

00:47:16.920 as opinion editor of the

00:47:18.860 Western Standard before he arrives

00:47:20.500 into retirement sunset, Nigel.

00:47:22.960 I feel like I should say something terribly

00:47:24.800 profound and but really what i what i need to say is what a incredible three years it has been here

00:47:31.760 at the western standard what an honor to work having started in newspapers that still had led

00:47:37.600 presses to come out where it's all online but above all to present a conservative point of view

00:47:42.640 to a conservative audience you know a chance to say what you want to say

00:47:46.720 phil lebron has never censored me that i appreciate so thank you for that beric

00:47:52.180 You're not allowed to say that.

00:47:53.920 Cut the camera.

00:47:55.720 Thank you, Nigel.

00:47:57.040 Nigel, no, it's been a profound privilege working with you.

00:48:00.340 You've really upped the quality of debate and argument and polemics here.

00:48:08.580 I am so glad to have had you, and we're very sad to miss you.

00:48:13.740 But we're going to get you back in for the pipeline from time to time here,

00:48:17.560 and we're still going to be counting on your calls.

00:48:20.840 All right.

00:48:21.360 thank you all right uh everyone in the comment sections you should leave uh some nice thank

00:48:27.520 yous to Nigel if you like him if you don't like him say some mean things we like mean things here

00:48:31.840 too it's okay all right Nigel Corey Erica thank you thank you John on production thank all of you

00:48:39.000 who have uh joined us today we appreciate the time you've shared with us thank you for everything

00:48:45.560 you've done go to westernstandard.news right now click on subscribe it's only ten dollars a month

00:48:49.940 or $100 a year for unlimited access

00:48:52.180 to all Western Standard content.

00:48:54.120 That is how we're going to keep the doors open

00:48:56.700 and the lights on here at the Western Standard

00:48:58.660 as the rest of the media goes through an apocalypse

00:49:01.240 and turns into a desert of broken down presses and cameras.

00:49:05.720 We'll survive because we've got people like you

00:49:08.300 willing to put in a few bucks a month to support our work.

00:49:11.700 Thank you very much for joining us today, and God bless.

00:49:19.940 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - August 07, 2025

Carney： A decision if necessary, but not necessarily a decision

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