Western Standard - Carney has allowed Israeli ‘impunity’ to continue, Trudeau-appointed senator says

00:00:00.000 The public has rejected the dissonance, the profound dissonance of this view that you cannot

00:00:07.600 criticise Israel because it seemed to be anti-Semitic. It's kind of sad that the

00:00:13.200 leadership class is behind the public, but it's only a matter of time before our

00:00:19.860 leaders across Canadian society can no longer put up.

00:00:30.000 Prime Minister Mark Carney twice told foreign media that he believes in a quote Zionist Palestinian

00:00:41.460 state and when asked if he personally considers himself a Zionist he gave a carefully worded

00:00:47.860 response that has sparked debate. To unpack this and Canada's broader position on the Israeli

00:00:53.380 Palestinian issue I'm joined today by Independent Senator Ewan Pahou who has been openly critical

00:00:59.160 of Canada's approach, stating he feels no pride in the country's handling of the issue.

00:01:04.920 In this interview, we discuss Carney's leadership compared to Justin Trudeau's,

00:01:09.220 the influence of pro-Israel forces in Canadian politics, and the use of anti-Semitism accusations

00:01:15.740 to silence critics of the state of Israel, and why politicians in Canada remain cautious despite

00:01:21.360 strong public sentiment in favor of the Palestinian side. I'm joined with Senator Yuen

00:01:26.300 Paul. Senator, thank you for making the time to speak with me today.

00:01:30.900 Nice to be here.

00:01:32.740 So, Senator, you made some comments recently to the media on your pride or your lack thereof

00:01:37.960 in Canada, given Canada's position on the Israeli-Palestine question.

00:01:42.140 Can you provide some more context to that, please?

00:01:46.500 Well, the horrors in Gaza and the West Bank have been going on for over a thousand days.

00:01:55.000 There are documented reports of atrocities, severe violations of international law, the curbing of humanitarian assistance to Gaza, and gross violations of human rights.

00:02:17.780 And I'm surprised that the Canadian government has not condemned the actions of Israel more vigorously, as we do when there are human rights violations and serious violations of international law in other places.

00:02:40.120 and it's in that context that I express my disappointment with the Canadian government

00:02:45.940 for not acting in a consistent way.

00:02:51.080 All right, and just to clarify, that means you're not proud of the actions of the government,

00:02:57.100 not necessarily the country, perhaps. Is that a better characterization?

00:03:01.620 Yeah, that's correct. That's correct, yes.

00:03:05.780 all right so i'll go ahead and show you a clip uh senator and i'll clarify this to you off camera

00:03:12.460 but i asked mark carney uh his views on the quote zionist palestine state which was his stated

00:03:19.480 objective upon recognizing state of palestine last year he said this comment twice to foreign media

00:03:25.240 and i also asked him whether or not he considered himself personally to be a zionist so let me just

00:03:30.140 go ahead and play that clip and i'd like to have your reaction if possible just a follow-up on

00:03:34.000 in another area. Your government has recently announced some spending measures on promoting

00:03:37.840 peace between Israelis and Palestinians. So I want to revisit your stated objective.

00:03:42.860 You said a year ago you wanted to see a, quote, Zionist Palestinian state. Can you clarify if

00:03:48.760 you still support that stance, and do you consider yourself a Zionist?

00:03:52.540 In the following respect, is what I said, and it's consistent with our announcement a little

00:03:59.320 less than a year ago around moving to a process to recognize the state of Palestine, which

00:04:08.520 is a decision we took, and I stand by this, we took because the possibility, the prospect,

00:04:16.960 the probability of a two-state solution was receding.

00:04:22.540 Now, what is a two-state solution?

00:04:25.140 This answers your question, which is a free state of Palestine living in peace and security with Israel, recognizing not just Israel's, quote, right to exist, but to live in full freedom and security.

00:04:47.660 And those are the two core elements of that.

00:04:55.140 And what's necessary for that to be achieved, many things are necessary for that to be achieved.

00:05:01.900 Part of what's necessary for that to be achieved are a series of reforms by the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank.

00:05:11.020 There is progress on those.

00:05:13.420 There are a range of other issues that are required in order to stabilize the situation.

00:05:19.080 We've called for an end to these illegal settlements, settler violence.

00:05:23.800 We have instituted sanctions. We're working with regional partners. We're working with all interested counterparties to try to move that forward so we can get to that end state, which is still, as you would know, some way off.

00:05:38.240 Senator, what's your reaction to that exchange?

00:05:40.740 um well there were a lot of words there he didn't actually answer your question about a

00:05:50.100 zionist palestine i think the way you put it he didn't address it directly

00:05:58.020 um some of what he said makes sense particularly the free and independent palestine hence the two

00:06:09.860 state solution and very importantly canada's recognition of palestine so there's not much

00:06:20.820 to react to in terms of the question of whether he's a zionist if as you tell me he has said he is

00:06:30.420 supports a zionist palestine i don't understand what that means my understanding of zionism as

00:06:43.300 it is currently practiced by israel is one in which there is illegal occupation of palestinian

00:06:52.900 territory there is the violation of international law not only through the illegal occupation but

00:07:02.900 by the atrocities committed in gaza and through the expansion of illegal settlements in the west bank

00:07:12.180 and also by the further annexation of territories in Gaza and the West Bank.

00:07:21.440 So I don't know what definition of Zionism he's using.

00:07:27.300 It certainly sounds like an idiosyncratic definition,

00:07:31.800 but insofar as the practice of Zionism, as I see it happen before my very eyes, so to speak,

00:07:40.700 I cannot support that understanding of the term.

00:07:47.540 So Mark Carney has led the country for a little bit over a year now.

00:07:51.340 What do you make of his leadership on this particular issue?

00:07:54.120 And do you see any changes compared to his predecessor and Justin Trudeau?

00:08:00.180 He's gone further than Mr. Trudeau.

00:08:02.780 and he, of course, is the one who initiated and made happen

00:08:09.900 the recognition of the state of Palestine.

00:08:13.880 He has been very clear about some of the violations of international law

00:08:22.740 by Israel and of the need for humanitarian assistance to be unimpeded.

00:08:28.940 But he has not done anything substantive to signal to Israel that there are consequences for Israel's gross violations of international law.

00:08:45.020 In effect, he has allowed Israeli impunity to continue.

00:08:52.240 Beyond that, I think this government, while it has made progress when it comes to the recognition of Palestine, has failed to look at the other ways in which Canada could be deemed complicit in genocide, plausible genocide in Gaza.

00:09:13.900 For example, through our continued support for Israel, through the sale of arms and provision of other kinds of military support, as well as in the continuation of the Canada-Israel free trade agreement where we provide preferential access to Israeli imports into Canada.

00:09:40.660 and also allow for preferential access for goods that originate in illegally occupied Palestinian territory in the West Bank.

00:09:53.120 So there's a very long way to go in terms of what I would consider the minimum requirements for Canada to live up to its obligations in international law with respect to Israel's violations of law in Palestine, both Gaza and in the West Bank.

00:10:17.360 so you know i read your comments in detail and i noticed that you're essentially arguing the

00:10:23.880 premise that canada as a whole its government primarily is not doing enough on the on being

00:10:30.760 critical in israel frankly on israel's behavior so i just want to ask you you know you are a senator

00:10:36.700 you're an independent senator you've been there for some time so you understand the political

00:10:41.360 bubble in Ottawa, what do you think it is that is barring some of that action that you're hoping

00:10:47.580 for? Because it seems like the public side are very much on your side, which is the pro-Palestinian

00:10:52.680 sentiment. It's well expressed in the Canadian society, specifically well expressed in the

00:10:56.240 Canadian left. Liberals, NDP voters, supporters are very vocal and very enthusiastic on that

00:11:02.800 support. So what do you think is deterring the government or maybe just avoiding them entirely

00:11:09.300 from being able to reach the ideal policy points

00:11:13.120 that you've presented yourself?

00:11:16.360 Well, first, I would underscore your point about public support 0.90

00:11:20.300 for stronger deterrent action and punitive action against Israel. 0.80

00:11:26.520 I wouldn't frame it just as a view on the left.

00:11:31.100 There's quite a broad and strong majority, I think,

00:11:35.560 of Canadians who oppose what Israel is doing and would like to see the Canadian government do more.

00:11:44.300 The mystery is why the government hasn't done more. And by the way, I would say that this

00:11:50.340 majority view does not seem to be reflected in the Parliament of Canada, certainly not in the

00:11:55.460 Senate of Canada, where you would think, based on the types of comments that are made and questions

00:12:03.300 that are asked and the votes that are taken, you would get the impression that the Senate

00:12:07.900 does not seem to be attuned to public opinion. And as you put it, the question is why? Well,

00:12:17.700 at the heart of it is the fear that all of us have and should have of being called

00:12:28.800 anti-Semitic. It's a slur that, rightly so, nobody should want to have to carry. But it has 1.00

00:12:41.240 been misconstrued, I think, in the current context, whereby pro-Israel forces have cleverly

00:12:54.220 conflated criticism of Israel for documented violations of law,

00:13:01.420 like horrendous crimes in Gaza.

00:13:06.160 Pro-Israel supporters have conflated that kind of criticism

00:13:10.640 with anti-Jewish sentiment, hence anti-Semitism.

00:13:15.820 And this mindset is so pervasive, so deeply embedded in the Canadian establishment, particularly in the leadership class, if I can put it that way.

00:13:31.960 certainly within MPs and senators, probably across the corporate leadership class in many of our

00:13:40.760 universities and hospitals and other public institutions. This fear, this misperception is so

00:13:49.000 deep that people are just afraid of breaking it. Being called an anti-Semite is a terrible thing

00:14:00.760 because of what we know about the history of anti-Semitism.

00:14:05.600 But it's important that we make it very clear

00:14:09.020 that it is not anti-Semitic to be critical of Israel

00:14:14.240 for documented violations of international law.

00:14:17.500 And our government needs to have the courage to do that.

00:14:22.180 Well, I mean, it seems like I've found at least a few social media statements

00:14:26.780 calling yourself and other voices in that space anti-Semitic.

00:14:32.120 You mentioned pro-Israel forces, so let's just go back to that point you mentioned.

00:14:36.640 Who are the pro-Israel forces in Canada or in Canadian politics

00:14:40.540 that are running a lot of that, that are making that reality possible? 0.65

00:14:45.920 Well, the groups that want to justify what Israel has done and is doing in Gaza.

00:14:53.280 Can you mention about any particular groups that you've identified that are

00:14:57.280 There's no, basically, it would take you 30 seconds scrolling through any social media feed

00:15:06.880 to identify these groups as well as individuals. And I should say that these are also individuals

00:15:14.640 who are embedded in associations, in corporate boards, university, senates, the Parliament of

00:15:28.080 Canada, in the media, among your colleagues. They are in many places and they can be identified

00:15:39.520 simply by the position they take, which is the conflation of acts taken by the state of Israel

00:15:53.080 with Jewish identity. And by the way, this is a viewpoint that has been advanced by,

00:16:02.020 I should say this is an analysis, a correct analysis that has been put forward by the Jewish Council of Australia, which correctly points out that the rise in anti-Semitism is precisely because of the conflation of Jewish identity and the actions of the state of Israel.

00:16:25.120 And it's wrong.

00:16:26.280 The Jewish Council of Australia has said it's wrong.

00:16:28.660 So I only wish that our political and other leaders would also come to that realization.

00:16:37.100 Well, given this dynamic of the fact that pro-Palestinian voices in Canadian politics or voices that are critical of the Israeli government or its actions have been labeled anti-Semitic, such as yourself but other people from around the political space, commentators, activists, authors, you name it.

00:16:55.240 So given that dynamic and how you mentioned itself, it's an effective methodology. Canadian society is relatively a polite seeking society. People don't want to be called anti-Semitic or don't want to be called a bigoted in any form, frankly.

00:17:08.240 Is that spelt to you a possible weakness of the emphasis of Canadian politeness in Canadian politics, frankly, because ultimately I think someone to be bigoted would engage some sort of understanding of their bigotry, whereas I think this is kind of a politicized sort of tactic that is being used that you've described yourself by pro-Israel forces.

00:17:31.940 So is there like a weak point, specifically in Canadian society, that keeps politicians muted or softer on this issue because of that fear?

00:17:42.040 I mean, because the accusations are there and they will continue to be there.

00:17:47.280 But what do you think politicians and representatives should be doing to get around that fear?

00:17:56.340 Well, the weak point is not politeness.

00:17:58.540 i would never want to give up on uh the you know canadian quintessential canadian trade of being

00:18:05.260 polite that's that's a virtue uh it's not politeness that's holding us back it's

00:18:13.260 the inability to recognize uh double standards and let's be frank it's the material

00:18:20.620 consequences and incentives that lead some Canadians to close their eyes to what is

00:18:33.460 glaringly obvious. The fact that they are pro-Israel forces that are generous, generous

00:18:47.360 donors to universities, to museums, to charities. There are pro-Israel forces that are thought

00:18:58.520 leaders in the sciences and the humanities and the social sciences. There are pro-Israel forces

00:19:08.900 that are seen as champions of human rights,

00:19:14.280 upholders of international law.

00:19:17.160 All of this creates an ambience, a context for Canadians

00:19:25.580 who are in the leadership class to be deeply influenced

00:19:30.400 and incentivized, I should say, to not be critical of Israel.

00:19:36.940 But look, as you pointed out, the public is aware of the double standards.

00:19:45.680 The public has rejected the dissonance, the profound dissonance of this view that you cannot criticize Israel because it seemed to be anti-Semitic.

00:19:57.660 I think it's only a matter of time, frankly, before our, it's kind of sad that the leadership class is behind the public, but it's only a matter of time before our leaders across Canadian society can no longer put up with the dissonance and are forced to face the reality.

00:20:26.720 As, you know, as someone has said very wisely, one day everyone will say that they were against this genocide, that day will come, and when that day comes, everyone will be coming up with excuses for why they didn't see it sooner.

00:20:50.220 so i want to talk about antisemitism very briefly and specifically the human rights report published

00:20:56.980 by the senate in april or the senate human rights committee in april um it talks about a few things

00:21:03.940 and of course it echoes a lot what i saw in the preceding or the following actually uh bernie

00:21:10.120 report on the same topic the rise of antisemitism in canadian society it cites a number of different

00:21:15.580 causes, but primarily, again, the anti-Zionism, anti-Israel rhetoric that those groups and those

00:21:24.320 communities view as contributing to or part and parcel of the anti-Semitism expressed in Canadian

00:21:30.800 society. And as a result, it advocates for a few things to combat with that. Digital literacy

00:21:37.520 education for K-12, other kinds of educational programs, hate and bias training for officials

00:21:45.140 and people in law enforcement, and also adopting or using the IRA definition of anti-Semitism,

00:21:53.880 the working definition they have, which would not be binding per se, but does create this

00:21:58.820 mechanism of anti-Zionism equals anti-Semitism per their viewpoint. So can you tell me a little

00:22:05.060 bit about your views on how the Senate and your colleagues in the Senate, Leo Hosakis and others

00:22:10.880 who have spearheaded this report.

00:22:13.840 What exactly is going on with that business?

00:22:16.460 And do you feel like this is part of the problem

00:22:18.220 with Canadian politics not being more blunt

00:22:22.100 in its criticism of Israel

00:22:23.600 because this manufactured anti-Semitic reports

00:22:27.740 and recommendations that are pushing a certain direction?

00:22:33.200 Well, the report is correct to talk about the need

00:22:36.420 for more education and awareness raising

00:22:39.080 about the problem of anti-Semitism.

00:22:40.880 education has to be a big part of it but it misses it totally misses the fundamental question

00:22:47.340 which is what is anti-semitic i was very disappointed that the report did not directly

00:22:54.640 address the question of whether it is anti-semitic to criticize israel harshly when there are

00:23:04.920 documented claims of Israel's gross violations of international humanitarian law.

00:23:14.780 The committee totally skirted the issue.

00:23:17.480 But if you cannot answer that question, what are you going to educate our children on?

00:23:23.780 What are you going to tell our children that it is anti-Semitic to criticize Israel?

00:23:28.720 Is that really what we want to teach our children?

00:23:31.720 that some countries are exempt from criticism 0.51

00:23:38.740 because they can claim some sort of immunity like anti-Semitism.

00:23:48.200 Surely that runs against all of our ethos in Canada

00:23:53.140 around the universality of human rights and law and so on and so forth.

00:23:57.780 So I was very disappointed with the report.

00:24:01.720 I'm not sure you're right that the report actually endorsed the IHRA definition.

00:24:07.580 I think it skirted the issue.

00:24:10.020 I would be even more disappointed if it endorsed the IHRA issue because it is precisely the IHRA definition that gives the impression that criticizing Israel harshly is anti-Semitic.

00:24:27.940 Again, I go back to what the Jewish Council of Australia has wisely elucidated,

00:24:38.000 which is that the rise in anti-Semitism is due to the conflation of Jewish identity

00:24:45.520 and the actions of the state of Israel. 0.81

00:24:48.320 That's a profound but obvious statement.

00:24:51.420 And I'm so disappointed that our Human Rights Committee was not able to come to that realization.

00:25:00.660 Awesome. Senator, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate the talk.

00:25:05.920 Thank you for having me.

Western Standard - July 21, 2026

Carney has allowed Israeli ‘impunity’ to continue, Trudeau-appointed senator says

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