Western Standard - Citizen’s initiatives offer true democracy

00:00:00.000 Good day.

00:00:29.560 welcome to the Cory Morgan show. Well, the post-election madness goes on. Well, maybe not

00:00:35.200 quite as mad as one would expect. It's been kind of stable, except the independence front. That's

00:00:40.320 really been livening up. I got to say and admit, of course, I've been doing my part to keep that

00:00:44.720 stirred up, but it's rolling right along. A lot of things are livening up in Saskatchewan and

00:00:49.660 Alberta. Interestingly, in BC, you know, it's just not quite catching fire out there. Interior BC a

00:00:54.560 little bit. Either way, the country is still deeply divided and shaken. And well, we're going

00:01:02.200 to see what comes out of all of this. Today, I've sort of talked a bit about that. I'm going to have

00:01:07.420 a guest a little later, Keith Wilson. He's a lawyer. Actually, you might remember him working

00:01:11.280 for Tamara Leach. He was very integral in trying to keep her out of jail anyways, and things such

00:01:18.940 as that and he's been very outspoken and rational which is refreshing on the independence file so

00:01:25.200 we're going to talk a little bit about that and uh yeah we'll cover some news other things like

00:01:29.740 that as well and uh have some interaction so be sure to use that comment scroll guys the show is

00:01:35.800 live uh it's interactive you know share those ideas questions thoughts with each other with me

00:01:41.780 i don't necessarily read them all out on here but i do read them all and it keeps things rolling

00:01:45.400 all right well let's talk about you some of the legislation that came through some of the things

00:01:48.860 it will liven things up. Premier Daniel Smith, she stepped up to fix Alberta's fake citizens 0.95

00:01:55.660 initiative legislation. And I say fake because the legislation was crafted by former Premier

00:02:00.360 Jason Kenney's government to keep a promise they made, but the legislation was purposely

00:02:04.940 made dysfunctional so it could never be used. The bar to initiate a referendum had been set

00:02:10.680 so ridiculously high, it could never happen. Now, that bar has been reduced to gathering

00:02:17.180 signatures on an official petition, by the way, totaling 10% of the turnout in the last election,

00:02:23.000 not those eligible to vote, and it gives a 120-day period. So that's about 177,000 signatures or so.

00:02:30.420 That's no small feat to get that many signatures, but it's achievable now, if the issue really is

00:02:35.100 on the minds of Albertans. The effort required to invoke a referendum is still pretty high,

00:02:40.320 and frivolous efforts are unlikely to occur. Now, while conversation on that legislation has

00:02:45.820 been dominated with the talk of a potential provincial independence referendum being held,

00:02:50.480 people are forgetting this legislation can be used for all kinds of initiatives.

00:02:54.060 I mean, direct democracy is one of the purest forms of democratic policy formulation. What

00:02:58.660 better way to enshrine a policy than get permission directly from the citizens who are going to be

00:03:03.320 impacted by it in a democratic vote? I mean, elitists, they despise direct democracy. Direct

00:03:08.480 democracy empowers what they see as the unwashed masses. It brings policy discussions from the

00:03:14.180 back rooms of power brokers into the living rooms and pub tables of citizens. In fact, it turns the

00:03:19.540 citizens into the power brokers. Direct democracy can put authoritarians in check, putting policy

00:03:25.680 decisions directly into the hands of the citizens. It isn't new. It's just new to Albertans.

00:03:30.380 Switzerland is one of the oldest and most stable democracies in the world and a constant citizen

00:03:36.320 initiated referenda are an integral part of their system. They hold several votes a year

00:03:41.020 on policy initiatives. The bar to initiate a referendum in Switzerland is relatively low.

00:03:45.660 Only 50,000 citizens need to sign a petition to invoke a referendum on legislative issues or 100,000

00:03:51.400 people need to sign for constitutional issues. Opponents to direct democracy like to claim such

00:03:56.180 a system would lead to an overwhelming number of initiatives causing a gridlock in policy

00:04:00.460 implementation. But that hasn't happened in Switzerland. Citizens there tend to be responsible

00:04:05.200 with which proposals they're going to sign petitions for and which they won't. And they

00:04:08.800 understand that, you know, because these could likely wind up on a ballot. They're not just

00:04:12.480 wasted time on petitions. They have little time for whimsical proposals.

00:04:17.380 They're still elected legislators who draft and implement policies in Switzerland, but they hold

00:04:21.020 a different attitude than their Canadian counterparts. I mean, since their legislation

00:04:25.140 can end up going to the citizens in a referendum if it's considered divisive or not good,

00:04:29.360 the legislative branches of the governments do something that we never hear of in Canada.

00:04:33.200 They're inspired to consult citizens before crafting bills.

00:04:36.940 Poorly crafted policies or policies opposed by the majority will be rejected by citizens in short order.

00:04:42.580 So politicians with Switzerland understand they must answer directly to the citizens.

00:04:47.020 Gee, refreshing thought, isn't it?

00:04:48.740 Switzerland's system isn't perfect by any means. No system is.

00:04:52.100 Their respect for allowing direct participation by the citizens in policy creation that was unmatched.

00:04:56.740 And it works.

00:04:57.440 But the size and geography of Switzerland, it offers a fantastic model actually in several ways for provinces in Canada, considering increased or total independence from the Federation.

00:05:07.540 Allowing citizens to vote in a referenda isn't an abdication of duty by elected officials.

00:05:13.040 Our politicians are supposed to reflect the will of the people rather than direct it.

00:05:17.220 Controversial or divisive policies are best put straight to the electors rather than a small legislative chamber where self-interest and lobbyists can unduly influence decisions.

00:05:27.300 While discussions about provincial independence continue to rage, let's not forget that

00:05:31.240 referendums can apply to much more than independence. Premier Smith's Bill 54 opens

00:05:35.800 the door for initiatives on everything from major infrastructure projects to potentially ending

00:05:40.140 those stupid annual clock changes for daylight savings time. If referenda are bundled with

00:05:45.500 multiple questions on one ballot, it can be efficient. It's not like you've got to vote

00:05:48.140 every month. Going to the polls more often isn't a task anyways. It's a privilege. We should

00:05:52.680 welcome it. Elitists, of course, they're going to clutch their pearls and howl and indignation is 0.87

00:05:56.940 the power to make change lands in the hands of the commoners. I'll let them. Populism, yeah,

00:06:02.120 it can have drawbacks, but it's infinitely better than its counterpart, which is authoritarianism.

00:06:07.760 All right. So yes, I see a few of the actually ideas, a couple of commenters, Lynn there,

00:06:12.120 you know, it's good to see Paradoxie in there and Benny and Aaron and talking about a couple

00:06:17.940 of things that could go on to a referendum ballot, an RCMP, whether the contract gets renewed or a

00:06:24.500 provincial pension plan. These are the places that these are the sorts of things maybe let's put it

00:06:29.840 in the hands of the people, take it out of the hands of those clowns that are sitting in the

00:06:32.620 legislature. They're there for some stuff, give us some committee work, but we can take the big

00:06:35.720 policies off their hands. So let's have bigger talks. Okay, and that's a separate bigger discussion

00:06:42.420 when we're talking about when somebody can sit down from Kathleen saying when somebody can sit

00:06:45.240 down with the indigenous and have a discussion with them. I know most chiefs are liberals,

00:06:48.540 but there's so much misinformation. No, I don't want to sit with the chiefs. To hell with the

00:06:52.500 chiefs. Screw the chiefs. They're self-interested bums, most of them. The corruption in that system

00:06:57.520 is overwhelming. When I saw them yesterday throwing the paper up in a big flourish saying,

00:07:01.780 we don't care what you think in the legislation. Well, I don't care what you think. No, I don't

00:07:04.940 want to talk to chiefs. We shouldn't. We need to talk to the citizens on those reserves. You know,

00:07:08.100 the ones who are living in squalor while the chiefs live in mansions. Those are the ones we

00:07:11.840 want to talk to. But anyway, that's a different discussion I can have another time. Let's turn

00:07:15.880 to somebody who's a little more sane than me, and that's our Sean Polzer. I'm afraid Dave's

00:07:20.720 indisposed, and then you get to fill in on the spot for the news update today. That's what happens

00:07:25.360 when you're a vice president, you get called into a lot of meetings. Yeah, the burden of responsibility

00:07:30.920 rests heavily on Dave's shoulders. Exactly. I had to laugh at your comment about the Native

00:07:36.000 chiefs uh given your experience uh i thought maybe uh your case had come up too maybe they

00:07:46.400 well we'll deal with that yeah but uh i'll try to be that more subdued if it ends up in the courtroom

00:07:53.120 sounds good so i hadn't thought of that maybe we can edit this later

00:07:59.200 we're live oh yeah and they don't watch my show anyway so no just your tweeter yeah

00:08:06.000 yeah they don't miss that so what's going on in the newsroom well you know it's uh kind of i would

00:08:11.520 say a mid mid busy day so uh you know might be oil and gas and the oil patch here um earnings

00:08:18.880 are coming up all through the week so we had synovus uh big thermal oil status player announced

00:08:24.320 some layoffs undisclosed number of layoffs but they had to be reported to the provincial government

00:08:28.880 because they were over 50. they're having their earnings report and agm in calgary here tomorrow

00:08:35.520 Of course, they're in that big, you know, the glass tower, the one with no coroner office.

00:08:40.660 Right.

00:08:41.280 Right.

00:08:41.680 So it'll be interesting to see where they land.

00:08:44.620 Oil hit a five-year low last week.

00:08:48.640 Followed up on another story that we had about potentially big $10 billion deficit for the Alberta government.

00:08:55.400 So it looks like Snows could be one of the first victims of a new, lower, longer oil price environment.

00:09:02.520 you know something we talked about in the newsroom just before we came out here i mean some of that

00:09:06.060 confusion people have too with the price differential right so i mean the lower price

00:09:10.740 is still going to impact the alberta budget there's no getting around that no but it doesn't

00:09:14.920 hit necessarily as hard because the differential between alberton oil and the west texas intermediate

00:09:21.020 is narrowed right not as big right so but that doesn't impact synovus as much because synovus

00:09:27.000 has uh refineries in texas and in the mid they have american refineries yeah i think the question

00:09:32.520 that's going to be on everybody's mind is how these some of these tariffs are going to affect

00:09:36.040 them and um given the overall state of the business because uh they're in a very unique

00:09:42.760 position of being able to buy their own oil so they can buy their own oil at a discount refine

00:09:47.000 it and then push it out the door you know that's the vertical magic of vertical integration yes

00:09:53.000 so uh i remember my old business courses on there but apparently um they're refining business isn't

00:09:58.120 doing so well either so we'll have to see um let's see what else we've got um we got an interesting

00:10:05.480 story about uh i don't know who you call him the trumpster the donald's changing the name

00:10:14.200 oh i know victory victory in world war ii day or something and he's

00:10:19.720 angering veterans on both sides of the border as as he plans uh a military parade on his

00:10:25.480 on his 79th birthday in laxington dc yeah it's a new level of vile for him and i don't expect

00:10:32.520 much of him i know some commenters will get upset but too bad you know you didn't fight in the war

00:10:37.720 donald yeah well a different war he avoided and then the one in particular that he's trying to

00:10:44.360 rename now and meddle with i mean was there any demand from the veterans on either side of the

00:10:50.600 pond saying that they want to see this change like well what was really kind of funny is because you

00:10:55.720 went on the disabled veterans association of america website and they they had a statement

00:11:01.720 on the on the changes one word no i bet you in the veterans uh meetings the words were a little

00:11:10.280 different, but probably short. He's managed to do what a president hasn't done in a little while,

00:11:17.000 which is create a genuine bipartisan issue. Well, yeah. And I mean, you know,

00:11:21.560 veterans and such are quite often, you know, traditionally conservative type supporters,

00:11:25.960 Republican supporters, but they're not, he's not doing it. Ah, whatever. And then we have

00:11:31.080 a sense of what he does. We have another interesting story that goes back to the oil

00:11:35.400 angle you know as people most people know or ought to know canada is uh the biggest uh foreign oil

00:11:41.880 supplier to the us uh we're shipping about four and a half million barrels a day about 60 of their

00:11:47.240 total uh imports well we still have a free trade agreement and there's a canadian international

00:11:54.280 trade tribunal and they were taking up the issue of u.s dumping of renewable diesel into canada

00:12:01.960 yeah which is threatening canada's only renewable diesel producer out on the west coast

00:12:08.360 and uh the the trade complaint was dismissed so you know there's an example of tariffs and rivers

00:12:14.200 where they probably want tariffs on these things yeah protecting cottage industries because they

00:12:19.800 can't stand on their own that's the bottom line i mean you know renewable diesel i i imagine the

00:12:24.600 margins are a tad tight i would imagine so yeah too i didn't exactly get into those specific

00:12:30.600 margins but yes most of these newer industries uh generally rely on some kind of a government support

00:12:37.240 yeah all right well so what are you working on now for the next stories we can look forward to

00:12:41.480 coming up next few hours well as opposed to i said all this suncor actually put out uh

00:12:48.920 low earnings to beat everybody's expectations uh suncor is probably one of the biggest oil

00:12:54.360 science producers in the world and yet uh their shares were down anywhere four or five percent

00:12:59.640 this morning so i guess the bigger question is why and i i think it speaks to some of these things

00:13:05.080 that some of these issues that came up in the election with um lack of range of structure

00:13:10.040 lack of uh prospects lack of affordability and being able to you know for for the new

00:13:15.720 prime minister carney to be able to address some of these issues with not only the alberta

00:13:19.560 government but also with the oil patch yeah well he's not making people feel confident yet uh not

00:13:24.040 yeah that's for sure all right well i'll let you get back to watching that and uh writing up those

00:13:29.880 those business and energy stories for us sean well thank you very much appreciate the update today

00:13:33.720 take care thanks so yes it's sean polzer and he puts out lots of great stuff i think he's been

00:13:38.760 leading the charge on some of those story read counts i'm not too sure but uh this is where i

00:13:43.400 like to remind everybody the reason sean can do this the reason we're covering this stuff live as

00:13:47.480 it comes out is because you guys have been subscribing so bear that in mind that's the

00:13:52.920 this is the new media. This is independent media. That's the way it works. $10 a month,

00:13:56.260 $100 for a year, westernstandard.news slash subscription. And that way we can keep funding

00:14:01.640 these things and keeping them rolling, you know? And hey, if you want to advertise with us,

00:14:04.980 send an email, we'll fix you up. We can certainly do that and keeps us away from the

00:14:10.480 independent or independent. We are the independent media. It keeps you away from that legacy media,

00:14:16.420 that skewed, messed up institution we have sitting there. So we should be on to Keith

00:14:23.460 pretty quickly here. Let me just check something. Either way, Trump, you know, it's just,

00:14:32.800 he's such a wild card and he's going to be in our, within our politics for the next few years.

00:14:39.820 And I mean, how do you plan for the guy, whether you like him or you don't like him? And it's

00:14:44.840 funny. I've got a bit of anarchist in me. I like seeing things shaken up, but you've got to have

00:14:49.520 some degree of stability. I've got no use for Mr. Carney. I don't think he has Canada or the West's

00:14:57.360 interests at heart with anything, but I don't envy the man having to sit down and trying to deal

00:15:03.400 with Trump. He's got a tough task ahead of him. Either way, we've got other tough tasks to deal

00:15:09.260 with and that's out here in the west and I'm going to speak with lawyer Keith Wilson and

00:15:14.580 well see if we can add some some rationality to the independence discussions going on. Hi Keith

00:15:20.640 thanks very much for joining us today. Thanks for having me on. So things have really livened up I

00:15:27.600 mean not just post-election but now that Premier Smith has changed with Bill 54 we're going to have

00:15:33.620 realistic citizens initiative legislation, but it's really kind of caused a whirlwind of different

00:15:40.420 disparate groups, individuals, bunches all talking about moving towards perhaps provincial

00:15:45.300 independence, but there's no solidified central movement yet. Yeah, I agree. I think it's a

00:15:53.780 reflection of the sheer number of Albertans that are very disturbed about the direction that our

00:16:01.940 country has taken and the Trudeau Liberals and now the uncertainty around the Carney Liberals.

00:16:07.940 And we know that they've put their economic, their knee on our economic neck and they've deprived

00:16:14.500 us and our children and our neighbors and our grandkids of the prosperity that we know they

00:16:19.540 could have if we had sensible government dealing with our resources. So there's so many people that

00:16:28.340 that have been harmed for a prolonged period they're at their wits end and they're easily

00:16:33.340 attracted to a wide variety of groups um and you know there's a there's certainly a lot of

00:16:40.340 commotion right now for sure i think it's going to settle out as time goes on but yeah we're in

00:16:44.580 a very hectic phase for sure yeah so i mean in in some ways things are a little different i i think

00:16:50.940 maybe people are hanging on to old habits i mean we've really we've got a mechanism now actually

00:16:54.820 to assert ourselves as a province we've got a means and it's looking pretty likely considering

00:16:59.440 the state of affairs now where the bar has been put one way or another that 177 plus signatures

00:17:05.140 is probably going to be garnered and sometime in 2026 there's going to be a referendum

00:17:09.340 uh but how do people who support it help bring that about then i mean what i'm saying in a sense

00:17:16.380 is you know people kept looking at the party route the party route the party route but that

00:17:19.820 doesn't really apply in a referendum or it shouldn't well it's worse than that i mean

00:17:24.900 let's first of all clarify something corey that you know well and i know well but there's still

00:17:29.700 a lot of people that don't which is canada is an anomaly for a modern democracy in that other

00:17:37.100 countries do not put into their constitutional framework a process for a region of the country

00:17:45.060 a province of the country, or a state of the country, to leave, to declare independence.

00:17:50.380 They don't do that.

00:17:52.380 Canada has.

00:17:53.820 And it was in 98, as you know, is arising from the Quebec referendum succession movement.

00:17:59.220 And so the Supreme Court of Canada has laid out a legal pathway for a province to vote

00:18:05.480 to declare itself to be independent, and then the steps that are necessary to complete the

00:18:10.340 process of that province becoming its own country.

00:18:13.080 And what's also unusual from an international norms perspective, from an Alberta perspective or Canadian perspective is Alberta is the only province that has put in every step of the way legislation, right from the Citizen Initiative Act, to allow citizens to petition the Alberta government to hold a referendum and referendum legislation to allow the referendum on independence to be held.

00:18:42.680 So we have all the legal processes, you know, the car is built. Now everybody's trying to jump in and drive it. To your point about political parties, let's be clear. Alberta's history is very clearly set out. The patterns of our political, of what you have to do to form a government and what you have to do or what can happen for you to cause you to lose power and not be able to form a government.

00:19:11.240 It's math. It's electoral math. And this group that's now arrived on the scene, and particularly with some force this week, what they call themselves is the Republican Party, the only two things that are going to come from that, and I realize these people are well intended, but we have to be realistic.

00:19:31.680 The only two things that will come from that party is dividing the vote on the right, clearing the way for the NDP to become the next provincial government in 2027, which we don't want.

00:19:42.940 No reasonable person should want that, in my view.

00:19:45.940 And it will also weaken and reduce the chances of a successful referendum vote.

00:19:52.600 You don't achieve this type of change ever through political parties.

00:19:57.880 You do it through grassroots organizations.

00:20:00.280 yeah absolutely i appreciate you clarifying that and i see from a questioner and i kind of want to

00:20:06.020 you know pivot a little on i mean we're here in the opposition really rising up for the people

00:20:09.660 who want the status quo and basically saying that it's impossible you can't do it and there's a few

00:20:14.740 reasons they throw out we'll kind of cover you know one would be the indigenous issue uh some

00:20:19.840 is uh some people claiming that king uh charles actually owns all the land which is a bunch of

00:20:23.780 bologna it's getting ridiculous the extents that some are going to but one that's interesting

00:20:28.600 One that's interesting, and Yellowhead Homestead, one of our commenters, kind of pointing it out, because some people said, well, you could vote to leave, but then you'd be locked back into the constitutional reforming formula, and then you'd need seven provinces and all that baloney.

00:20:41.640 And no, in other words, it could never happen, and that's just not true.

00:20:45.940 well let me hit that one um so look you know i've been a litigator for 30 years and i've had to deal

00:20:56.800 with very complex multi-party agreements involving corporations and individuals and so on of varying

00:21:02.860 degrees of sophistication and varying amounts of money and often many many millions of dollars so

00:21:08.300 high-stakes stuff um when you're developing and the parties don't want to resolve things they're

00:21:14.800 fighting, right? But you get them to the point where they actually resolve things and they get

00:21:18.480 to move on. They still might hate one another, but they move on. So it's not uncommon to have

00:21:25.060 to deal with complex matters and find ways for parties to reach agreements. But one of the things

00:21:30.520 you always do as a lawyer or litigator in a situation like that, you don't leave a thing at

00:21:36.960 the end, even though you hammer out the details of the deal. So in this instance, the details upon

00:21:42.860 on which Alberta would become an independent country,

00:21:45.980 and then leave an opportunity

00:21:47.440 for one or all of the parties to scuttle it.

00:21:49.720 So in other words, one of the clauses in the accord,

00:21:53.880 the agreement for the succession of Alberta,

00:21:57.500 will be a commitment, a legally binding commitment,

00:22:01.140 on each of the provinces in the federal government

00:22:04.000 to pass a resolution in their respective legislatures

00:22:07.740 amending the constitution.

00:22:09.360 You wouldn't leave it to the end.

00:22:11.420 It would completely thwart the whole negotiation process.

00:22:15.020 It would make it a silly, nonsensical process.

00:22:19.700 So I see these people saying,

00:22:20.980 well, after you get the deal, you'll have to,

00:22:24.140 you're not gonna be able to get seven of the 10.

00:22:26.640 No, we're gonna get all of them

00:22:28.100 and the deal will include them committing to do it

00:22:31.580 or there'll be no deal.

00:22:33.520 And so that's my answer to them

00:22:36.040 is people are not seeing the clear pathway.

00:22:40.580 They see complexity and it's like, yes, we do complex things all the time as humans.

00:22:45.860 We're quite actually accomplished at it.

00:22:48.360 They see uncertainty.

00:22:50.020 Yeah, we deal with uncertainty all the time, too.

00:22:52.120 That's why we do formal agreements, have rational, clear discussions.

00:22:55.660 So is it going to be challenging?

00:22:58.040 Absolutely.

00:22:59.360 But I don't see it any more challenging than many of the other complex, multi-party arrangements

00:23:05.320 that I've been involved in resolving in my career.

00:23:08.640 The only difference is this one involves 4 million Albertans and 40 million Canadians.

00:23:14.040 Yeah, well, and the Clarity Act makes it clear that if a province votes on a clear question and it gets to the day past that, the rest of the country is obligated to negotiate.

00:23:24.480 And in good faith, that's the part people are overlooking.

00:23:27.440 So if they suddenly said, well, you can't actually do that, well, they're now they're already not negotiating in good faith.

00:23:32.600 I think at that point, I mean, this is getting theoretical, but then if a province has a clear

00:23:37.100 vote, that's where they're at the point of saying, well, we can, we're going to unilaterally go then.

00:23:40.660 I mean, well, in the Supreme Court of Canada, Corey, because they did it kind of cryptically.

00:23:46.440 It clearly anticipated in the Supreme Court of Canada reference decision of 1998, this scenario,

00:23:52.860 the scenario where other provinces, First Nations or the federal government just don't want the

00:23:59.960 province that's leaving to leave so they effectively scuttle the negotiations right

00:24:06.360 and it's paragraph 155 of the agreement of the of the decision and and people should read it

00:24:12.720 and it's particularly significant given what's going on south of our border with president trump

00:24:20.060 and paragraph 155 essentially says if you carefully analyze it the effect of it is

00:24:26.660 That if there are bad faith negotiations and some of the parties are not entering into genuine good faith negotiations as to the terms of the province leaving, then it does clear the way for unilateral international recognition.

00:24:45.080 so other countries can say no these guys followed a lawful process now these other provinces first

00:24:52.460 nations whoever are playing silly bugger and as a result we this other country or countries will

00:24:59.940 give international recognition to the sovereignty to the uh to the new nation state of alberta

00:25:06.680 And think, for example, Taiwan. Taiwan is part of the Constitution and within, according to China, to Beijing, is part of China. But the international community has decided, no, it's not. And they've given Taiwan, or most countries, not all, have given recognition to China.

00:25:26.000 So there's an out here. The Supreme Court of Canada decision is a sophisticated roadmap. And I think the greatest challenge will actually be helping the sufficient number of Albertans to realize the advantages of a free and independent Alberta and the disadvantages of remaining in this oppressive, exploitive relationship.

00:25:56.000 leadership we have with central Canada and the reoccurring liberal regimes.

00:26:02.640 So, I mean, it's good to just keep clarifying. And I know that this discussion and battle will

00:26:07.220 keep going with people who will just, they'll just make stuff up and they'll just say it can't

00:26:09.980 happen. It can't happen, whatever. Rational people will move ahead, but, and a lot of people are

00:26:14.360 excited. They want to move ahead due to the, I mean, I think it's a drawback and a strength at

00:26:19.180 the same time, not having one central leadership, I guess, in a way. I mean, the power of the people

00:26:24.220 can endure even if a group or a party comes and goes but how do individuals organize what can

00:26:29.120 your average person do then because i mean to be honest if a vote was held tomorrow i very much doubt

00:26:34.220 enough people would be ready to go if people really want independence they've got to help

00:26:39.040 build that base of support what can people be doing then to do so well i think it's it's informing

00:26:45.180 trying to become informed i mean one of the things i'm trying to do on social media and by doing

00:26:51.040 interviews like this is help people have accurate information about the process it's a real and

00:26:56.940 viable process it's not crazy talk it's it's actually in our law books um and having a

00:27:03.900 discussion to lift the uncertainty about the details of how it would work and how their lives

00:27:09.440 would be different in a free and independent Alberta versus remaining in the current relationship

00:27:14.620 I think I was pleased, actually, when the premier announced the timeline yesterday.

00:27:22.200 And I think it's a realistic timeline.

00:27:24.700 The idea of holding a referendum vote this year, I think, is a fool's errand.

00:27:29.560 It's going to fail.

00:27:32.500 There's too many interested Albertans, impacted Albertans that need time to understand and

00:27:38.520 think about what this means and make an informed choice.

00:27:40.840 and we're going to need that time to help with information campaigns and so on

00:27:45.520 and counter all the misinformation that's already started.

00:27:48.720 Like, it's crown land, Corey.

00:27:50.940 It's crown land.

00:27:52.580 Yes, yes.

00:27:53.540 Can we hit that one, please?

00:27:54.300 I know we've only got a couple of minutes, but wow.

00:27:57.760 Okay.

00:27:59.540 Political Science 101 and Legal 101.

00:28:03.160 because of the the the federal government owned the land in alberta the water the oil the fish

00:28:12.020 prior to 1930 and they entered into treaties treaties six seven and eight where the first

00:28:19.140 nations surrendered which is effectively all of the land mass they ceded it forever released it

00:28:24.400 to the federal government in 1930 because there was concerns from particularly saskatchewan and

00:28:31.760 Alberta about the unfairness that all the other provinces in Canada owned their resources at the

00:28:37.320 time, but Alberta was a ward of Ottawa. So that hence became the 1930 Natural Resources Transfer

00:28:47.880 Agreement that transferred all of the land in Alberta, the water and the oil and gas and natural

00:28:54.540 resources and fish to the Alberta government to administer so any unoccupied non-settled land so

00:29:03.860 if you didn't homestead it and didn't have the title it became crown land meaning Alberta crown

00:29:09.240 land meaning owned by the Alberta government so there's so many people that seem to think crown

00:29:15.500 immediately means federal crown and means the federal government that is simply not true it's

00:29:21.280 not open. It's not a debate. It's not uncertain. It's crystal clear. There are literally hundreds

00:29:26.820 and thousands of court cases that have ruled that have had to deal with that finding of fact. It's

00:29:33.400 not in dispute. It's not controversial. You can't say the same thing for BC. British Columbia doesn't

00:29:41.040 have the same treaties, doesn't have a 1930s natural resources transfer agreement. And then

00:29:46.780 And on top of that, Lougheed got an amendment in 1982, Premier Lougheed, to the Constitution, Section 92A, to confirm that not only does Alberta own all of these resources, it has the rightful control over their exploitation and marketing and development.

00:30:01.200 So that's just the facts.

00:30:05.240 No, I appreciate you clarifying that.

00:30:07.380 I imagine we're going to have our work cut out in the next year, you know, clarifying a lot of things.

00:30:11.660 But that's the task, because I think people want to go.

00:30:13.620 And a lot of their questions are genuine.

00:30:15.780 wine. They're fair. I mean, your average person doesn't dig into treaties or the constitution

00:30:20.980 and, you know, they need that interpreted. They got a lot on the go as it goes. So as we can clear

00:30:27.520 that up, though, I can only see support for independence growing. I really can.

00:30:32.680 I think so. I think to me, the math's clear. I mean, I have an advantage of my training and my

00:30:38.360 career to see into what these details are. And it's obvious to me the benefits are so significant

00:30:47.240 for Alberta to be a free and independent country. Right on. Well, I really appreciate you coming

00:30:54.100 on to talk to us, Keith, and your work in general out there. You've been a good advocate for freedom

00:30:58.500 on many levels. I see some of the commenters are recognizing your work and defending

00:31:02.560 some people, Tamara and others in the past. Where can people find, you know, where you've

00:31:08.160 been speaking up and what you're up to so they can clarify on these issues and see as you uh

00:31:11.980 help keep people informed sure i'm pretty active on twitter or x and my handle is at i k wilson

00:31:20.380 i k wilson uh so please follow me there i post regularly factual information i go hand to hand

00:31:28.000 with some people to try and clarify some issues that people are either spreading misinformation

00:31:31.800 about or or just genuinely confused about right on well thank you again for joining us

00:31:38.080 Today, I know 15 minutes was just not enough to cover so much.

00:31:41.080 But with that timeline now, we've got probably, you know, a year perhaps and a year and some to keep clarifying these things and making sure everybody comes into things well informed.

00:31:50.900 Thanks very much, Corey.

00:31:51.960 All right.

00:31:52.220 Thank you.

00:31:53.320 So a reminder, folks, yeah, it's Keith Wilson.

00:31:55.560 If you look him up, you can find him very prolific online.

00:31:58.340 And he's been fantastic on this issue.

00:32:01.360 And it is so important.

00:32:02.220 There's just so much.

00:32:03.480 I mean, the Internet is such a beautiful thing.

00:32:05.660 We can communicate.

00:32:06.560 We can organize.

00:32:07.220 we've got more access to information than we ever have, but we've also got more access to BS

00:32:12.400 than we ever had. And it's up to us to keep trying to cut through and find the truth. Now,

00:32:20.120 some talk about, for example, national parks. That's getting similar to people talking about

00:32:26.140 the crown land is owned by the feds. All right, the national parks, you know,

00:32:31.100 it's just, again, somebody else pointed out part of the negotiations. It's not like if

00:32:35.640 on a post-independence situation

00:32:38.400 that Canada could just pick up

00:32:41.220 Wood Buffalo National Park

00:32:42.780 from Northern Alberta

00:32:43.520 and take it back.

00:32:45.240 We're just going to have to negotiate.

00:32:47.800 The bottom line is it's a park.

00:32:49.840 We can negotiate and say,

00:32:51.040 yes, we'll maintain it as a park

00:32:52.320 in a preserved place

00:32:53.580 and it'll maintain its status

00:32:56.460 as it sits right now.

00:32:59.020 It's funny with some of the people

00:33:00.240 talking about,

00:33:00.840 I mean, again,

00:33:01.200 we want to talk about negotiating.

00:33:03.200 That's the deal after

00:33:05.640 an independence vote say happens. Then you start talking. You start going backwards and forwards.

00:33:13.380 The pension plan, an interesting one. Alberta, I mean, one of the studies said that Alberta is

00:33:18.860 entitled almost a third of the capital from the Canada pension plan. I think that's too generous

00:33:24.900 an interpretation, but that's kind of where that starting ground in that study came out.

00:33:28.360 Some people say Alberta shouldn't get any of it. Well, you go back and forth. We are entitled to

00:33:35.060 some of that capital, if only the proportion that's the percentage of population that Alberta

00:33:41.960 makes up. And if Central Canada says, no, we're not going to give you that, we'll say, well,

00:33:46.260 you know, that giant debt you have, you can stick it up your butts. We're not taking a chunk of it

00:33:50.160 with us. You can have it. And we've got a good case to make on that because Alberta has put in

00:33:55.440 hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions more into the Federation than it's gotten back

00:34:03.020 in goods and services from the Federation. Military bases get moved out. Equalization

00:34:08.620 gets drained out. Civil service jobs get prioritized to French people in Quebec.

00:34:13.100 Health transfers, Alberta gets less per capita than other provinces. You know, the transfer

00:34:18.780 system, it's not just equalization, guys. It's all sorts. So you want to start playing that game?

00:34:24.980 That's fine. That's what the negotiations come about. And again, if the faith is broken,

00:34:30.260 if the negotiations aren't being done in good faith by either side, well, then the negotiations

00:34:36.120 are done. Then you get on to, as I said, something along the lines of a unilateral declaration.

00:34:41.580 And you know what? When Alberta is and remains and always, you know, has been a net contributor

00:34:47.780 into the Federation by a long shot, we hold the cards. It's not like the federal government can

00:34:55.120 starve us. People are saying, oh, you know, independence, it would mess up the economy so

00:35:00.720 badly. Alberta would be a wreck. It wouldn't be able to draw investment. There'd definitely be

00:35:04.180 some instability brought about from it. Absolutely. But we also have to look just in the last 10

00:35:10.220 years under Dingleberry Trudeau. It's estimated as much as $500 billion in investments were lost

00:35:17.440 in Alberta because of the environment, the anti-oil and gas, the anti-pipeline, the anti-development

00:35:22.760 attitudes from Ottawa. So would an independence vote really make it worse? I don't think so.

00:35:31.860 I don't think so. I think in the short term, I guess, you know, when things are in flux,

00:35:34.460 it might be difficult to get some investment. We're figuring out a currency and a lot of things,

00:35:38.220 but in the longterm, no, because the oil and gas are still here. Now I was listening, you know,

00:35:42.940 so again, getting back to the information, you know, a ding dong online. Oh, look at the price

00:35:46.700 of oil. See, everybody's done with oil. It's not worth anything. Nobody wants it anymore.

00:35:49.300 how many times have we got to hear the peak oil idiocy? You know, they've been saying that since

00:35:54.120 the 60s. Everybody's been predicting oil is going to run out and we're all going to be hooped.

00:35:59.320 And guess what's happening? It isn't. It's not even close. Now at this point, they're saying

00:36:02.620 we got too much oil. Now we're going to be hooped. Oil demand isn't going away anytime soon.

00:36:09.380 We want to diversify the economy so we're not as dependent on oil, which is 17% of Alberta's

00:36:14.400 economy, by the way, a good chunk, but not to all. Get the hell out of Canada, get into a proper

00:36:19.060 business environment. Right now, they're sucking the money out of successful industries in the

00:36:23.420 West, and they're pouring into cricket factories and battery plants in Ontario. Is that helping

00:36:28.060 anybody diversify the economy? I don't think so. We can diversify our economy out here.

00:36:34.920 And, you know, I just want to cover some of these ones. One of my favorite, oh, you'd be landlocked.

00:36:40.300 Oh no. Oh no. I mentioned Switzerland earlier on the show. They're landlocked. Are they poor?

00:36:45.980 International law prevents countries from blocking other countries from reaching a coastline.

00:36:51.260 And again, we get on to

00:37:01.340 a post-independence world. Well, okay, let's say BC is being stupid. They say,

00:37:09.260 we're gonna stop all development and not uh let people uh not let alberta transfer any oil or gas

00:37:16.220 and pipelines across our province okay well we would just close the border and not allow any

00:37:21.200 trains to take any bc goods or any truckers to drag it across the trans canada highway and then

00:37:26.440 bc's economy can crash and you know central canada as well on the other side wouldn't be able to get

00:37:31.300 things out to bc it's stupid which is why it wouldn't happen you negotiate god guys 0.86

00:37:37.780 either way sticking with the status quo sure isn't serving as well is it

00:37:41.640 somebody earlier he was being a ding dong so he had to be pulled off on the the comments because

00:37:46.160 you know again as i said comment have a differing opinion but uh don't start getting insulting or

00:37:51.040 you'll just get blocked but he had appointed oh you lost the election and that's why i've said

00:37:55.300 it's more than that guys that's the the thing it's not the election that's what makes independent

00:38:00.140 supporters when they realize it doesn't matter what the election is it's the system it's the

00:38:05.160 system. And, you know, some people were willing to accept living in a broken system as long as they

00:38:13.100 could get a fair deal, you know, as long as they could get a break now and then with the

00:38:21.480 conservative governments through the liberals are shutting down our industries. And even then,

00:38:26.620 though, I mean, look how terrible the liberals have been. Our GDP per capita in the toilet

00:38:32.680 worldwide going down. Our cost of living on the same time is going up. Canada, when compared for

00:38:38.700 general wealth per capita with the United States, Canada lands around Mississippi and it was only

00:38:45.240 getting worse. And this was, you know, and scandal after scandal, whether we're talking blackface,

00:38:50.760 SNC-Lavalin, the WE scandal, the Chinese foreign interference scandal, all of that.

00:38:57.380 and then still, let's give the liberals another term. Okay, fine. You can have your incompetent 0.98

00:39:05.280 liberals, corrupted liberals over there, but we've had enough. If we had decentralized authority, 0.79

00:39:13.300 as we should, it wouldn't be such a big issue. If Central Canada wanted to elect crappy governments, 0.87

00:39:19.640 they could have them as long as we could shield ourselves from them and do our own thing. But

00:39:23.940 unfortunately, we can't. Unfortunately, the federal government doesn't even do its job as

00:39:29.620 a federal government when it comes to those roles where it is actually supposed to intervene with

00:39:34.280 provinces. This is one of the beautiful ironies. The whole point of a federation is to have at

00:39:39.340 least one central authority to make sure all of the provinces can operate and do business and

00:39:44.080 prosper. They're not supposed to micromanage the business within the provinces, but they're

00:39:49.260 supposed to do the high level stuff to make sure stuff can get done. Things like pipelines, highways,

00:39:55.700 things that cross provincial borders, interprovincial trade. Well, guess what? The

00:39:59.280 federal government doesn't do any of that. They allow provinces to block pipelines, totally

00:40:03.140 unconstitutional. They allow supply management to block trade of food between provinces, totally

00:40:08.100 unconstitutional. They make it illegal to sell liquor between some provinces. And

00:40:17.480 what's the point

00:40:20.440 to this federal government? Meanwhile, as I said

00:40:22.420 though, they micromanage. They get in

00:40:24.280 and they start talking about

00:40:25.580 they're going to build houses here. 0.91

00:40:28.260 That's not the federal government's authority. They're going to have

00:40:30.160 child care programs. That's not the federal government's

00:40:32.200 authority. That's not their

00:40:33.700 jurisdiction. We've got it

00:40:36.160 totally backwards.

00:40:38.480 We've had the

00:40:40.020 constitution

00:40:40.820 ignored and we've

00:40:44.100 had rulings against things like that. C-69

00:40:46.160 was found unconstitutional with no more pipelines bill. Did the government repeal it? Did the

00:40:49.940 government amend it? Did they change it? No, they said, oh, we're going to go ahead with it anyway.

00:40:53.340 Same with the plastic bands and all that stuff. Courts found that that's outside of their

00:40:58.120 authority, but they said, well, we're just going to do it anyway. Okay. Well, what's the point?

00:41:05.280 You know, I'm tired of people saying, you know, why do you want to leave? Now we're at the point

00:41:15.280 then for those outside of Alberta, tell me why we should stay. You guys make the case. We're done.

00:41:23.400 We're tired. This system's broken. Healthcare's falling apart. There's another beauty. It's free

00:41:30.140 to die on a waiting list. That's great. So guys, it's coming. And it's funny to see how infuriated

00:41:36.600 some people are over just the fact that there's going to be a vote on it. If you're saying there's

00:41:42.880 no support for this then you shouldn't be afraid of a referendum should you and they don't want

00:41:48.900 people to even have the ability to vote well kiss my butt you know you can oppose it absolutely you

00:41:55.560 can vote against it but to take the right to vote away from us oh yeah made Angela Williams another 0.96

00:42:01.700 commenter bringing up another beauty right Canada is one of our international embarrassment I had 0.77

00:42:05.720 Tristan Hopper talking on the show about that like what a insane thing Canada's become the world 0.98

00:42:10.860 medical assistance and death capital, you know, we're executing almost call it that we're pushing

00:42:16.640 veterans towards taking a doctor assisted suicide where people with mental health issues trying to

00:42:22.820 push them into that because we can't fix our health system. But maybe if we can kill off

00:42:26.360 enough people, we won't have to pay to treat them. Yeah, that's Canada. Yeah. So again, guys, get on

00:42:32.180 it. Start telling me the reasons to stay because I can't find them. But boy, I can sure find a lot

00:42:36.900 good reasons to leave and now we got a whole year to convince uh to convince canadians um

00:42:46.420 that uh convince albertans that it's time to go see here's some of the idiocy

00:42:49.940 dan hadfield here's the beauty healthcare is a ucp thing okay dan it's falling apart in bc

00:42:56.820 what government's there it's falling apart in ontario what government's there it's falling

00:43:02.260 apart in Quebec. Who have they got? It's falling apart in Newfoundland. Who have they got? It's a

00:43:07.280 Canadian thing. It's the Canadian system. It's broken. It doesn't matter what province, what

00:43:12.440 party runs the Canadian system because it's crap. You can't make it work. Every province has

00:43:18.640 increased funding on healthcare. Every one of them, despite unions always screaming, there's

00:43:23.000 been cuts. Point to them. There haven't been cut since the nineties. Increasing, increasing,

00:43:26.940 increasing. Meanwhile, the outcomes go down, down, down. And then some ding dong says that's

00:43:31.640 the provinces' mismanagement. Well, the funny thing is not one of the 10 provinces apparently

00:43:36.560 is capable of managing it well. Maybe that tells you it's a systemic problem, not a party problem.

00:43:44.120 Well, how do you fix that? Well, you change the system. How do you change the system?

00:43:48.440 Well, we tried Beach Lake in Charlottetown. That was failed. Now we've got another option.

00:43:55.820 We've got the referendum. So, I mean, there's the call out. As I was talking to Keith,

00:44:01.040 I was talking about that. As I said, up to a year where the case is going to be made to Albertans.

00:44:06.360 Do you want to stick with this or not? Well, you know what, you guys, you guys got to start making

00:44:09.460 the case to Albertans then to stick with it. Not through insults, not through, you know, belittling,

00:44:16.720 but by convincing them that it's better because your case is getting harder to make all the time.

00:44:22.280 The vote's coming, obviously, whether you like it or not. So if you want to be on the right side of

00:44:26.460 that vote or the winning side, or you feel you have that, you have to make that case. That's

00:44:30.920 on you. And just saying everything's fine, saying the system isn't broken, that's not going to cut

00:44:36.440 it. I'm looking forward to, and I'm seeing movement in Saskatchewan. They're as strong

00:44:42.340 on this as Alberta. BC, interior BC, lower mainland, not so much. But it's, we've come to

00:44:52.660 this, guys. Do we want to keep swirling the toilet of mediocrity until we get right down to where

00:44:57.580 the inevitable end is? Or do we get pragmatic and say we're going to change things? It's funny,

00:45:03.400 I mean, Premier Smith did it, in my view, perfectly, did it brilliantly. It shouldn't be,

00:45:08.220 as we said earlier, it shouldn't be a party, definitely not some clowns of the Republican

00:45:12.440 party. And we don't need the Premier taking a stance on this. She said, we're going to put it

00:45:23.480 in the hands of Albertans. You don't get any more democratic than that. It's up to us.

00:45:27.580 And I can't think of any better way to do it.

00:45:30.440 All right.

00:45:31.020 Well, that is the time I have for today, guys.

00:45:34.320 Thanks for tuning in.

00:45:35.200 Again, make sure to follow Keith Wilson.

00:45:38.100 He's really been making great points

00:45:39.260 and covering that constitutional law that's so important.

00:45:42.080 Get out there, subscribe, share,

00:45:44.060 like all that good stuff on all the socials

00:45:45.940 so we can keep making this case.

00:45:47.400 You can find me at Cory B. Morgan on Twitter, of course.

00:45:51.920 I'm easy enough to find out there

00:45:53.120 for interaction and chat like that.

00:45:55.420 And again, if you haven't subscribed to The Standard,

00:45:56.980 take one out. So the pipeline will be on tonight. We'll have a panel breaking down more issues and

00:46:01.420 I'll be back on again a little later with more broadcasts. So thank you and we will see you on

00:46:06.320 the next one.

00:46:26.980 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - May 07, 2025

Citizen’s initiatives offer true democracy

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