Join Western Standard editor-in-chief Nigel Hannaford and editor-at-large Derek Fildebrandt and co-host Michelle Rempel-Garner as they react to Justin Trudeau stepping down as Prime Minister of Canada.
00:01:30.380Some of you might recall back in 2009, Justin Trudeau said it was dictatorial and authoritarian of Stephen Harper to prorogue, or that is, suspend Parliament temporarily.
00:01:42.980So, you know, it was Hitler when Trudeau did it.
00:02:56.160Like, so what he's done is he has triggered a liberal leadership race.
00:03:00.900That doesn't mean we're in an election.
00:03:02.840And it's not entirely clear if, as he has expressed in a desire to do, he's going to be allowed to stay on as liberal prime minister while liberal insiders select the next prime minister of Canada.
00:03:14.920We could be in a situation where liberal insiders actually select the next two prime ministers.
00:03:20.880And as you mentioned, parliament's prorogued, which means as the incoming American administration threatened 25 percent tariffs on our country, parliament is going to be shuttered.
00:03:30.860So, yeah, I think your title of the show is pretty apt.
00:03:34.860Nigel, kind of high level first thoughts.
00:03:36.980I can't get away from the recollection that Canadians voted for this man in 2015, 2019 and 2021.
00:03:47.780What took so long for the penny to drop that this was a bad choice?
00:03:51.620And I fear that some of the same people who voted for him, even in 2021, I mean, there were nearly 5 million people who did so, will somehow find it in their hearts to vote for a liberal prime minister again, just in the belief that this time it will be different.
00:04:11.980Yeah, what strikes me here is I did some math in the column I just published minutes ago.
00:04:22.880You know, we've got now so parliament's prorogued until March 24th.
00:04:28.380So I'm guessing the new liberal leader will have to have been elected, sworn in with their new cabinet by then.
00:04:35.800So that takes us to March 24th, roughly.
00:04:40.680And then the government runs, we'll get into this with the supply and budget issues coming up.
00:04:46.700But essentially, the federal government runs out of money March 31st, the end of the fiscal year, which means you have to have a, this is a new parliament, essentially, because it's been prorogued.
00:04:56.460So you have to have a speech from the throne, which takes a lot of time.
00:04:58.940And then you have to have a budget, two huge confidence votes, essentially the two biggest confidence votes on any parliamentary calendar, in seven days.
00:05:07.460The speech from the throne could take more than seven days alone.
00:05:10.100The budget normally takes weeks, at least, to go through.
00:05:17.100But let's say that, you know, the new prime minister, Prime Minister Carney or Prime Minister Freeland come in March 24th, and they were immediately defeated the first day on a confidence vote, which would be the appropriate thing to happen from both a parliamentary procedure standpoint and constitutional standpoint, and just politically what's needed for the country.
00:05:38.320If they're defeated on March 24th, then we're looking five weeks out from there, that takes us to May 5th-ish, and then another two weeks to swear in the new conservative government, another two weeks.
00:05:49.680We're looking at 155, 160 days before Canada even has a functioning government, all while Donald Trump said he's going to impose crushing 25% tariffs on Canada.
00:06:03.200There is not a worse time this could happen.
00:06:05.240And this is, I mean, all politicians, to some extent, have their own interests in mind.
00:06:13.500The Liberal Party of Canada, though, is unique in believing it is inseparable, the Liberal Party of Canada's interests and the government of Canada or Canadian nations or post-nation interests, that they are inseparable.
00:06:28.400And the Liberals are willing to drive this country into the absolute pits of hell to hang on for just a few more months at power.
00:06:38.120It beggars belief that we're even, on paper, considered a first-world functioning democracy at this point.
00:06:45.300Maybe let's start with some of the timelines and scenarios here.
00:06:52.320So in my column, I'm operating on the very unsure premise that the Liberals would get defeated as soon as they come back March 24th to the newly constituted Parliament after propagation and a new Liberal leader and Prime Minister is selected.
00:07:10.280That is not a sure thing, but even if that does happen, Michelle, we would get an election then called probably late March or very early April by the time the House votes non-confidence in them.
00:07:24.020That is probably, at this point, the sunniest scenario at this point, that we only deal with half a year of a non-functional, almost illegitimate government at this point.
00:07:37.520I don't think we're going to have an election in March for several reasons.
00:07:41.960So there's a lot of people assuming that, and this is a reasonable assumption, that Jagmeet Singh would finally vote non-confidence after all of this at the end of March, like defeat the government on a throne speech, essentially.
00:07:57.120But there's a lot of evidence to the contrary on that.
00:08:01.440First of all, senior members of the NDP, Charlie Angus, for example, came out last week and said that he wouldn't vote non-confidence in the Liberal government under any circumstance.
00:08:16.380The NDP have said that they would rip up their supply and confidence agreement, and then they voted confidence in the government multiple times.
00:08:24.880The NDP, they're never going to form government.
00:08:28.880They don't act like a party that's going to form government.
00:08:31.320And frankly, I don't think they want to form government.
00:08:33.580Where their sweet spot is, is exerting influence on a minority Liberal government.
00:08:38.740And I think that they want to keep that scenario going as long as possible, even if it means selling their own souls.
00:08:45.800The side, you know, net benefit for them is NDP MPs that are retiring or not re-offering or might not have their pension eligibility until October.
00:08:56.620They have no motivation to vote against the Liberal government because that's their materiality principle.
00:09:02.680So I think people that are assuming that we're in an election because Jagmeet Singh finally finds a spine in March, I think that they're going to be woefully disappointed.
00:09:10.220And the proof on that, Derek, is just, I direct your attention to his recent tweet.
00:09:39.040Anyway, long story short, if you go to Jagmeet's X page, he doesn't expressly say, he puts out a statement on this day of all news days and doesn't say, like, this is the day for Jagmeet Singh to be like, I will defeat the Liberal government as soon as we come back in March.
00:10:11.980So we are in a very, you know, I'll just close by saying this, to reemphasize what you said, Derek, we are now looking at months upon months of either no parliament or no parliament and a hobbled, insider-picked, lame-duck Liberal Prime Minister,
00:10:27.340maybe leading the country at a time of profound national crisis.
00:10:38.740And I think most rational people in Canada would agree we need an election right now.
00:10:43.700But it does not seem that it's going to happen.
00:10:45.600The governor general has granted Trudeau a prorogation.
00:10:50.080There does not seem, unless Trudeau literally changes his mind and dissolves parliament himself, there is no prospect of that happening.
00:10:57.660So, you know, I was a little leery on the accusations, you know, made some time ago by Pauly of the Conservatives that Singh was really just playing this out for his pension.
00:11:10.400I've become much, I've become a convert to believe that actually is a critical factor, especially when the NDP came out after Freeland's resignation, says,
00:11:18.920Well, we will bring down the Liberal government, we'll vote, non-confidence, but not right away.
00:11:24.900We'll do it in late February, early March.
00:11:27.800And, well, those of us who are a little bit more inquisitive, we look in.
00:11:31.640And, of course, that is, February 28th is when Jagmeet Singh's pension vests.
00:11:36.480But just Jagmeet Singh, no one else, because he was elected in a by-election.
00:11:41.360But a good portion of the rest of the Liberal caucus, and Liberal caucus, their pensions vest in October, and they need to go to the fixed election date for that to happen.
00:11:51.940Now, I don't think that's the only thing at play here.
00:11:53.860I think, Michelle, your more charitable points, I think, are still quite correct that the NDP knows that its point of maximum influence, and to an extent the bloc, is during minority liberal governments.
00:12:07.120They can exert influence, they can get concessions.
00:12:10.180There really doesn't seem to be much, though, in concessions left to get at this point.
00:12:14.140The government is just running on pure fumes right now.
00:12:20.520So, yeah, Nigel, what do you think is the realistic chance this could actually go out past March, that actually the Liberals are propped up on continued confidence votes by the NDP?
00:12:32.080Because as bad as, you know, as much as the NDP might want to continue to drag it out, I mean, they are being punished to an extent now in the polls.
00:12:43.960They have to wear Justin Trudeau as much as the next Liberal leader does.
00:12:48.280They've been standing side by side with him the whole time.
00:12:50.900And the NDP needs to desperately demonstrate some daylight between itself and the Trudeau Liberals before they go to the polls next time.
00:12:59.140Well, you would think so, but I'm not sure they have much to lose, frankly.
00:13:02.140The longer they can hang on, the better it is for each individual member of the House of Commons, who's an NDP member as well.
00:13:08.920Well, why would you suddenly find a spine and take out the government on a point of principle and lose six months' salary and your pension rights as well?
00:13:21.120I mean, I think we talk a lot about the pension rights.
00:13:23.020I'm not sure everybody is quite as driven by that consideration as we believe them to be.
00:13:27.700But, you know, we're dealing with some shallow people and you don't need too many to alter the equation on this.
00:13:33.320But I would like to ask Michelle her opinion on a point of view expressed by her former colleague, Jay Hill, in these pages, probably about six months ago,
00:13:43.460when he reminded us that the election date is fixed by a vote in Parliament and can be unfixed by a vote in Parliament.
00:13:53.800And in fact, nearly was for reasons that are related to pensions, we believe.
00:14:00.200But constitutionally, this government could go for another year.
00:14:04.520Five years is, I think, in five years you get the convoy back.
00:14:08.680But do you see any possibility that they would try and get rid of a fixed election date and allow themselves to stagger on on this basis?
00:14:24.220Like they introduced legislation in the House of Commons that was at committee stage until Trudeau-Pirogue this morning
00:14:31.400to actually extend the fixed election date in a blatant bid to get pensions for NDP and Liberal members that are at risk for losing their seats.
00:14:45.100And like just just to justify this as a potential inevitable or a potential outcome.
00:14:51.620These, you know, as Derek said at the front end of this, these are people who consistently time and time again put their party ahead of the interests of the country.
00:14:59.940These are people who are all complicit in Justin Trudeau's decisions.
00:15:14.360And, you know, I think we're in this realm of crazy where you've got a small handful of people putting their delusional political self-interest ahead of everything in the country.
00:15:44.920So as Derek said at the front end of this segment, that we're not taking months and months and months and months,
00:15:49.620or as you're suggesting, over a year to get to a point where, you know, there's a government with an actual mandate.
00:15:57.220That needs to happen as soon as possible.
00:16:00.740I love the idea of a mandate, but they haven't had that for a while.
00:16:05.200I'm just thinking they've got, when we take Mr. Trudeau out of the mix, you have left the Liberal Party, which is really a progressive party and not liberal in any real sense.
00:16:14.680And they have an agenda of climate change and various woke priorities.
00:16:20.320Give them another year after October of this year, they could do a lot of damage.
00:16:25.760They might like, I'll just say this, like, I think you you've sort of obliquely touched on a really important point, which is that none of the front runners, front runners to replace Justin Trudeau,
00:16:37.820and none of the caucus members that have, you know, only after the cabinet shuffle started calling for his head, none of them have expressed any sort of disagreement with any liberal policy, any woke liberal policy, nothing.
00:16:50.160None of them have challenged their disastrous bail reforms or catch and release bail policies.
00:16:55.040None of them have expressed regret over, you know, massive inflationary debt spending.
00:17:02.460Their their only rationale for wanting Trudeau to resign is the fact that they've they've they're seeing their fortunes decline in the polls.
00:17:11.840So, you know, who knows what's going to happen?
00:17:15.420But certainly none of these people, you know, are coming forward with with any sort of indication that they're going to change their woke course.
00:17:28.660So but we're not going to get an election.
00:17:30.820There just doesn't seem to be any any real path for that to happen at this point.
00:17:36.460And best case scenario, as I kind of went through the math, our best case scenario, the government gets brought down when it returns March 24th.
00:17:47.460And so that leaves us by the time that election is done and new government sworn in half a year, half a year without any effective government in Ottawa.
00:17:55.360Well, we've already got the provinces taking control of border security out of necessity because there's just another vacuum of federal leadership at this point.
00:18:05.120But I think we've alluded to this already a bit, but I want to get into it a bit more is dealing with the existential economic and political crisis of the Trump presidency.
00:18:15.480There's a lot of potential good that could come from the Trump presidency, but he is he is playing America first.
00:18:21.820He's not playing friends or Canada first.
00:18:24.500And he has said he's going to impose a 25 percent tariff his first day in office.
00:18:28.260There's some some soothsaying around, you know, is he going to put it in a paper but suspend its implementation for some time?
00:18:38.800That's really hard to say at this point.
00:18:40.620But at the least, we need to be down there negotiating, trying to get a deal.
00:19:19.800Beyond even lame duck at this point, I'd say he is he is a mere placeholder.
00:19:25.640So is Justin supposed to go down or any other cabinet designate that he sends down?
00:19:31.240Trump is just not going to be able to take them seriously.
00:19:33.580Now, our best case scenario, I think, is that Trump says, I'm just not going to negotiate with you guys until you have a government in place that can speak for Canada.
00:19:40.940The worst case scenario is he actually does negotiate with the current Canadian government, such as it is, because it's so weak that he feels he can take advantage of it.
00:19:52.220That he can get a more zero sum deal out of dealing with such a weak and almost non-existent Canadian government at this point.
00:20:05.000I don't know what's worse from your perspective, Michelle, or Ms. Rumpel, is it worse for us that Trudeau would just refuse to negotiate with the Canadian government as currently constituted?
00:20:23.000Or is it worse that he does negotiate with them because he knows he can run the table with them because they're in such a weakened state?
00:20:30.300Or third, that the Canadian government, and this is a very real possibility, I think, is that the liberals and the leadership contenders, for the political reasons of winning the liberal leadership and Justin Trudeau for burnishing his reputation,
00:20:46.300because he doesn't have to live the consequences of anything anymore, that they go hard anti-Trump, hard anti-American, play that kind of liberal reflex, you know, that has a long history of the liberal party, and maybe even in Canada, for votes, that they go anti-American.
00:21:01.740They're willing to put Canada in a very, very bad place to be punished by Trump, because it might play well politically to be anti-American and anti-Trump.
00:21:10.500Those are kind of the three scenarios I see.
00:21:13.140I mean, I can answer your question by kind of refuting a premise that you stated earlier, which is that there's no way that we could have a general election.
00:21:25.480I think if Jagmeet Singh, the other opposition party leaders, if they wrote to the governor general and sort of publicly started banging the drum, like,
00:21:34.160we do not have confidence in this government, there is now functionally not a prime minister of Canada, we need an election.
00:21:40.100I think that that would change the tone and tenor.
00:21:43.020And I also think that if provincial leaders weighed in to the governor general with the same type of comment, which some have already done, perhaps not directly to the governor general,
00:21:53.920but have expressed a need for a general election for this reason,
00:21:58.000I think that, you know, she would have an obligation to think about bringing parliament back almost immediately to have a test of confidence.
00:22:06.320But again, I stand behind my earlier statements that Jagmeet Singh isn't politically motivated enough right now to make that decision.
00:22:17.380And that's why it's so important for Canadians to put pressure on Jagmeet Singh and not just let him get this free ride to the end of March,
00:22:24.400that they have to say you need to ask the governor general for a confidence, parliament to be recalled to have a confidence vote.
00:22:32.720But going to your comment specifically about the Americans, I mean, again, like this is this is something that Jagmeet Singh and the NDP and the Liberal government should be punished for.
00:22:42.820Not only putting us in a position where we're not able to negotiate, as you rightly outlined, but also that they've left our economy so weak going into this situation.
00:22:54.000Things like, you know, our leader, Pierre Paliab, talking in the House about how Canada were essentially sending jobs down to the U.S. just through the carbon tax.
00:23:01.640The carbon tax is going to increase right in this just almost during this period of time.
00:23:06.920So, you know, I think the real solution for this is for Canadians to really put a lot of pressure on the NDP and the other opposition party leaders to be demanding, essentially, a vote of confidence one way or the other.
00:23:22.900And really saying that the clusterfuckal that Justin Trudeau has delivered to Canadians today in triggering this leadership race and this uncertainty has put us in a situation where we could lose a lot of jobs and really see destruction of the Canadian economy.
00:23:41.360I think I think we need another convoy at this point.
00:23:44.580I mean, when you had a whole government and broadly a political class that was just refusing to listen, you know, people taking matters the way they did really did force change across Canada, resulted in new leadership at the Conservative Party of Canada, resulted in new leadership in Alberta for the for the government here, resulted in the federal government really overstepping its constitutional bounds into full on authoritarianism.
00:24:26.700It's interesting that, you know, the person who really deserved to have his leadership scrutinized by the Canadian media after the 2021 election was Justin Trudeau, right?
00:24:38.020You know, when you think about it, anybody with any political sense, including Justin Trudeau, his chief of staff, Katie Telford, should have realized that by calling that unnecessary election on the premise that they were going to win a majority, they didn't, they should have realized that his time was up.
00:24:55.800And if they had pushed him then, or in any of the subsequent summer, you know, recesses of Parliament, you know, the Liberals wouldn't be coming to Canadians with this absolute mess today, right?
00:25:06.800So, you know, but just just to your point, I think Canadians do need to really, regardless of political stripe, out of care for our democratic institutions, be speaking up and just demanding an election right now.
00:25:18.800So, Nigel, I want to kind of put the same question to you, as I put Michelle, with our incredibly, I wouldn't even say impaired ability to negotiate with Trump, I'd say almost non-existent ability to negotiate at this point.
00:25:36.580There are kind of three scenarios, at least as I'm seeing it. One is, Trump is just not even willing to talk to us, which almost might be our best case scenario at this point, that he's just saying, get back to me when you've got a government that can actually speak for your country, that has the confidence of the House, that I know is going to be there in six months.
00:25:54.560The other one is possibly even more dangerous, that he is willing to negotiate with the Liberals because they're in such a weakened state.
00:26:01.560And then the third is that the Liberals go full anti-American nativist and to try and drum up political points, but to the great detriment to the Canadian national interest, you know, a bunch of anti-American.
00:26:16.560You mean that they would suddenly discover that we're not a post-national state after all?
00:26:20.560Yes, that there's a Canadian national identity and it's worth defending all of a sudden that Canada isn't this genocidal, monstrous state.
00:26:27.560But they take the anti-American and anti-Trump route because it might play well domestically, but utterly devastate our national interest.
00:26:36.560Which of those, maybe you want, those are the three scenarios as I see it.
00:26:41.560Well, let's kick these things around. I mean, I have been making the point consistently since Mr. Trudeau got in real trouble,
00:26:48.560that it's all about him, that he is a man who has no real loyalty to the Liberal Party of Canada,
00:26:57.560rather regards it as a vehicle for his own glorification because he is the man of principle, the man with the grand vision,
00:27:07.560the man who sees further over the horizon than the rest of us poor saps.
00:27:11.560So, if that is actually accurate, I realize that I make these judgments upon him without any written evidence,
00:27:24.560only what I see here come from his own lips.
00:27:27.560The man is a narcissist. As Jordan Peterson recently described, I'm a wounded narcissist.
00:27:34.560Therefore, the rational thing is probably not going to happen.
00:27:38.560The rational thing being that, well, we've just seen it go out the window, no election.
00:27:44.560So, he will wrap himself in the flag, say I.
00:27:48.560He will present himself as a reincarnation of the old anti-American liberal.
00:27:54.560He will make fierce and unyielding denunciations of the U.S. President.
00:28:01.560He will cast Mr. Poliave in the same light as the British Guardian newspaper did recently,
00:28:08.560and try and present him as Trump light.
00:28:12.560And he will try to play upon the suggestible nature of Eastern Canadians
00:28:18.560that somehow this nothing good comes out of the United States and I'm the man who must resist it.
00:28:23.560Although it will not necessarily put him back into office,
00:28:27.560it will validate his position and cement his reputation as a great man.
00:28:38.560And that, I think, is perhaps more important to him than any other consideration.
00:28:46.560Okay. I know, Michelle, you have to go soon.
00:28:50.560We'll continue a little bit after you're gone.
00:28:53.560But I'm going to put up maybe a tough one to you.
00:28:58.560We've got some of our folks working on a column on this right now.
00:29:02.560But one thing that I've been considering long in the lead up to this now,
00:29:07.560but especially as there seems to be, I think the liberal leadership is probably,
00:29:12.560not that I'm a great insider in the Liberal Party,
00:29:15.560but it's likely to come down to Chrystia Freeland or Mark Carney.
00:30:09.560Well, she at least wanted to leave the party in.
00:30:11.560But she ended up taking the fall and led the PC party in 1993 to the biggest electoral defeat in the history of the Democratic world,
00:30:18.560going from a majority government to two seats, effectively ending the PC party as we knew it for all time.
00:30:24.560And if Chrystia Freeland takes over from Justin Trudeau right now,
00:30:29.560while the Liberals are pulling at the same 16% that the PCs got under Kim Campbell in 1993,
00:30:35.560this would mean on paper Canada's had two female prime ministers,
00:30:39.560both of which go down potentially to the most historic defeats in the history of the country.
00:30:45.560And I think that would build, however unfair,
00:30:50.560an electoral record that's not very good for female prime ministers.
00:30:53.560I don't know. What are your thoughts on?
00:30:58.560Yeah, I appreciate the question because it gives me an opportunity to say that I really don't think that if Chrystia Freeland was the next opponent of
00:31:12.560or the next leader of the Liberal Party of Canada, that if she was rejected,
00:31:17.560which I believe she would be by Canadians that had anything to do with her gender,
00:31:21.560I think it would be because I don't know. I just I just want to say this.
00:31:25.560Like, I just fundamentally disagree that Canadians, you know, would reject a candidate based on their gender right now.
00:31:34.560I mean, you look even in our province of Alberta, you've got Danielle Smith, who, you know, is a very strong female leader,
00:31:41.560just received a, you know, a massive showing of support from within her party in a leadership review.
00:31:48.560And I really do think Canadians measure candidates based on their merits as they should.
00:31:54.560And I mean, for Freeland, Freeland would be rejected because she was like the 2IC.
00:32:00.560She was she was the architect of most of the Liberals disastrous policies.
00:32:04.560It's interesting. The only other reason why I'm glad you raised her, Derek, is because Trudeau in his in his his speech today,
00:32:11.560he actually really threw her under the bus. It was like this amazing stab in, you know, under a velvet glove.
00:32:19.560He goes, you know, Chrystia, she stood by me for 10 years.
00:32:23.560And then he went into like just sort of reemphasizing how she was like this, you know, his essentially complicit in all of his decisions.
00:32:32.560And I don't think that Canadians are going to forget that she was complicit, that Mark Carney was like the Liberals,
00:32:38.560you know, senior adviser, godfather to her children.
00:32:42.560Like it's this incestuous nest of woke insanity that I think that's what Canadians are going to be measuring.
00:32:47.560And I am, you know, as a woman in politics, I, you know, I'm just really excited to see a change in government,
00:32:55.560no matter who who the Liberals decide to put up as as as as, you know, their net that the next hood ornament on the Titanic of disaster.
00:33:04.560So giddy up. It's time for an election. And that's what we're going to be pushing for.
00:33:08.560I certainly did not mean to imply in any way that Canadians wouldn't vote for a female in Alberta.
00:33:14.560I don't think they'd vote for Chrystia Freeland. No, I
00:33:17.560I think it's a disaster. She is an unmitigated disaster that never should have been put at the helm of
00:33:24.560In Alberta, most of the candidates for the last few election cycles have either both been women or the successful ones.
00:33:29.560Yes. I mean, I'm wondering if we'll ever have a male prime premier in Alberta.
00:33:34.560But no, but I mean that some people might draw the wrong conclusion afterwards that, you know, if there's been to and to have been such a disaster.
00:33:46.560I don't think that's fair. But I think if you look across the democratic world, the successful female leaders in these countries almost always come from the right.
00:33:55.560You look at Italy, you look at the United Kingdom.
00:33:59.560Merkel, I hate to use because she's kind of she became left, but she was when she first came, she was at least viewed as center right.
00:34:05.560Yeah, I mean, I mean, like, look, Trudeau is a fake feminist of like the arch priest of fake feminism.
00:34:12.560So I could totally see liberals who I never let women stand on their merit and always rely on tokenism, trying to pin Justin Trudeau's disastrous reign of nine years on a woman.
00:34:24.560I can totally see that being their narrative. But as far as Canadians go, Canadians are just and smart and they they know better and they're not going to be fooled by, you know, changing out one liberal woke Trudeau white for another going into the next election.
00:34:43.560They want change. They want safe streets, affordable groceries, affordable housing, and they want the budget to be fixed.
00:34:49.560And that's what conservatives are going to offer. So, you know, I really do think that this is going to be an election when it happens that contrasts, you know, very different policy and outcome visions for the country.
00:35:04.560One led one vision led by Conservative Party leader Pierre Polyev acts the tax, build the homes, fix the budget, stop the crime versus nonsense and woke insanity led by a Trudeau acolyte.
00:35:17.560It's a pretty clear choice and it's one that I hope Canadian hope will be given to Canadians in a general election as soon as possible.
00:35:23.560All right. Thank you, Michelle, for joining us. I really appreciate it. Let you get back to work. I know it is.
00:35:33.560It's a day. All right. We're just going to continue on just a little longer here, myself and Nigel.
00:35:40.560Nigel, let's talk about the next liberal leaders, likely Carney or Freeland. We don't know for sure.
00:35:46.560But, you know, if in another universe you and I are working in their new PMO, I think one of the first things they have to do is try to distance themselves from the Trudeau legacy.
00:35:59.560I think a textbook example of this is here in Alberta when Jim Prentice succeeded Alison Redford.
00:36:06.560She was wildly unpopular when she left office. Some of it was policy.
00:36:13.560Some of it was just scandal. But he was able to at least temporarily successfully distance himself, at least in public perception.
00:36:22.560It was all the same people around him as were around Alison Redford.
00:36:26.560It was it was the same crew. It was the same government, effectively.
00:36:29.560But much to my frustration and consternation at the time, he was able to make a few very symbolic moves that said, I am not Alison Redford.
00:36:40.560I'm Jim Prentice. This is a different government. And it wasn't.
00:36:44.560But the public, for a time in the polls, very much did buy that.
00:36:48.560It was undone later on after you had the floor crossing and then a series of other debacles under Jim Prentice's own making.
00:36:54.560But he was able to make a few key moves and they were very easy and almost tokenistic.
00:37:00.560But it worked with the public most prominently. He sold the airplanes, the airplanes that have been at the center of several Alison Redford scandals wasn't even necessarily good policy, but it was it was good politics.
00:37:11.560He did a few things and the public said, ah, we'll give you a chance.
00:37:17.560If you were advising in this in this in this world, the next liberal prime minister, Freeland or Carney, what are some of the easy?
00:37:31.560What are the some of the things you could do to distance yourself from Justin Trudeau in the public's mind without overly angering the liberal base?
00:37:40.560Well, that's that's a good question. But what is the liberal base?
00:37:43.560I guess we can have a discussion of that. You know, let's just say it was Carney.
00:37:50.560Mr. Carney, I think, would be very ill advised to accept the position.
00:37:55.560He's got a splendid personal track record, governor of two national banks.
00:37:59.560Why would he want to be trade that in for leadership party?
00:38:03.560He is he is apparently very interested in calling around.
00:38:05.560Well, that actually worries me, because if there is no upside for him personally to become the captain of the Titanic as they was already going underwater.
00:38:18.560So what would be his ulterior motive for accepting such a position?
00:38:23.560And it has to be something that we wouldn't like.
00:38:25.560So I'm actually challenging the premises of the question that they might even try to to distance themselves from the legacy of Mr. Trudeau.
00:38:33.560That's another strategy is embrace it and say, listen, Mr. Trudeau, you know, alas, we never understood him, but he was right on climate change.
00:38:45.560He was right on on so many other things, and especially upon reconciliation and EDI.
00:38:51.560You know, but let's say the new leader wants to distance himself.
00:38:56.560What are some of the things you think they could do?
00:38:58.560They're costing them much political capital.
00:39:00.560Well, I suppose that they could, you know, make an impassioned plea for meritocracy while quietly carrying on with their existing diversity, equity and inclusion,
00:39:12.560because people don't like the idea that, you know, the phrase ticking the box about people.
00:40:16.560Mr. Gilboa took his place on the back benches, probably resign and just didn't talk about the things that people hate, which is wokeism.
00:40:26.560And any kind of policy that seems to fly in the face of common sense, which is net zero by 2035, you know, even if you're a registered greenie, you know, how the hell are we going to do that?
00:40:42.560Well, if it's impossible, don't commit yourself to it.