Western Standard - Conversation on trans ideologies, free speech and Charlie Kirk

00:00:00.000 G'day, I'm Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of the Western Standard.

00:00:15.400 Some of you will recall the story the Western Standard broke just about two weeks ago of

00:00:22.020 Sylvan Lake, Alberta football coach Teej Johansson, who was fired from his coaching position

00:00:28.860 for posting a video on TikTok

00:00:31.620 talking about trans issues,

00:00:34.460 trans shooters, and that kind of thing,

00:00:36.860 and the fallout that's come from it.

00:00:39.900 I was at a conference

00:00:41.400 just the weekend before last

00:00:46.020 where I met someone who lives

00:00:49.540 not that far from Sylvan Lake in Red Deer,

00:00:53.320 Scott Cunningham, or Sheila Cunningham,

00:00:56.420 um and we had a we had a brief chat on the sidelines of this conference and i i thought uh i thought

00:01:03.340 uh this would be worthy of a more at-length interview on what's happened with firing a

00:01:11.940 coach for his uh his uh views on trans issues trans shootings that we've had um and since we

00:01:21.260 agreed uh to talk this issue has boiled up even more since the assassination of charlie kirk uh

00:01:29.340 some pleased to welcome into the western standard studio today scott sheila cunningham thanks for

00:01:34.720 coming pleasure to be here um well i guess we'll just start with your name uh you would actually

00:01:40.040 introduce yourself to me as scott uh but you go by sheila i think i introduced myself to you as

00:01:46.700 Sheila, but my email tagline has Scott.

00:01:49.000 Okay.

00:01:49.160 That's where I got confused.

00:01:50.520 Oh, but yes, she was my chosen name and legally I'm still Scott.

00:01:55.140 That's my birth name.

00:01:56.060 And I just, I looked at all the required, like how much legality it would be to change it.

00:02:00.940 And I was like, this is not worth it.

00:02:02.340 So I look at, I've chosen a name, not a lot different than a Robert who might chose to

00:02:05.900 go by Rob or Bobby just, and that's how they introduce themselves to people.

00:02:09.880 But it hasn't, but if someone you, but you didn't even change it on your email.

00:02:13.280 I need, I need that.

00:02:14.440 No, I'd like to live a simple life.

00:02:16.700 So, I mean, that's a lot easier than going down to a courthouse and changing it.

00:02:21.820 It is.

00:02:22.320 Yeah, but it's just, but it also lets me be casual, like how you introduced me with either name.

00:02:28.500 It's not an insult to me.

00:02:29.700 It's not an insult to people.

00:02:30.780 I have a name that I introduced myself as, but I don't, I'm not insulted if people use my birth name.

00:02:39.160 So, if someone calls you Scott, you don't correct them?

00:02:45.120 Okay.

00:02:45.600 Okay, so that makes it easy for us, because my policy when I'm talking to a trans person is, if they're friendly and reasonable, like anyone else, I'll call someone by what they want.

00:02:59.040 You want to be called Robert or Bobby, I don't really care, unless you've got a very difficult-to-pronounce foreign name, I might shorten it down.

00:03:07.180 I still can't produce the last name of our producer right here.

00:03:11.840 But, yeah, that's my general policy.

00:03:15.600 you be reasonable

00:03:17.460 and friendly, I'll be reasonable and friendly

00:03:19.420 and that's

00:03:20.800 that. I still have my

00:03:23.240 views on the topic.

00:03:27.140 I can

00:03:29.500 respect someone's choices.

00:03:31.740 I don't

00:03:33.160 believe

00:03:35.880 that a man can become a woman 0.95

00:03:37.280 and a woman can become a man, but I do believe 0.69

00:03:39.420 in someone's right to express themselves however they see

00:03:41.480 fit.

00:03:41.860 I just

00:03:43.180 you know i won't i don't feel compelled to believe it i can't convince myself right but i i don't see

00:03:52.640 a problem in calling someone by what they want to be called just to be a friendly decent human being

00:03:58.020 you know all right and that's good with you right oh yeah yeah yeah all right well we're gonna get

00:04:03.700 along um i think so too so uh you know let's just start by uh playing just kind of a highlights clip

00:04:10.920 of the TikTok video that was posted by Coach Tiege Johansson

00:04:18.820 of Sylvan Lake, football coach.

00:04:20.520 He posted this TikTok video that landed him in hot water.

00:04:24.720 It doesn't work.

00:04:26.320 Their lives don't get better.

00:04:27.660 The depression doesn't go away.

00:04:29.620 They don't fit in any more than they did before.

00:04:32.000 So they're promised that trans is going to be the answer to all their problems. 1.00

00:04:34.900 Then trans isn't the answer to their problems. 1.00

00:04:36.880 And they get even more depressed and more lonely.

00:04:39.300 in these people who are depressed and on medications you create this world where they

00:04:44.020 literally view people christians and catholics as their mortal enemy and then stuff like that

00:04:48.940 happened today at a catholic school in minneapolis is happening more and more often all right so he 0.96

00:04:55.080 you know he expressed some views that i mean four years ago would get you fired from your job

00:05:01.060 uh maybe haul before human rights commission and drawn and quartered but 2025 uh

00:05:09.300 I'm not sure views have actually changed, but people seem more willing to express how they actually feel.

00:05:15.120 I think the only thing that's maybe changed was what he talked about with trans shooters.

00:05:21.140 This was not really considered much of a thing, say, four or five years ago.

00:05:25.380 There's been some prominent cases lately, and this was before the Charlie Kirk assassination.

00:05:32.180 And we'll talk about that.

00:05:34.200 Trans issue might be involved in it, but might not be.

00:05:37.480 we'll get into that

00:05:40.120 later on.

00:05:42.660 You know, I did some research

00:05:44.040 after this. It's still

00:05:46.160 a fairly small number, but it's been very

00:05:47.960 prominent.

00:05:49.540 And it came right on the heels of a

00:05:52.080 trans person who shot up 0.96

00:05:53.100 a church service at a Catholic school,

00:05:56.200 killed a bunch of people injured even

00:05:57.940 more. So, you know,

00:06:00.120 I would

00:06:01.940 definitely agree with him that it's this,

00:06:04.300 you know, that's all

00:06:05.980 you know, I don't want to mischaracterize them either, but that, you know, I don't want to

00:06:09.700 overstate how big an issue it is, but it is an issue. What was your thoughts and what he had to

00:06:15.840 say? So, I mean, I viewed Teej's entire TikTok, his entire video, and he has opinions and beliefs

00:06:24.640 and he expresses them, but that's how I viewed it. He has strong opinions and that's okay. I don't

00:06:30.080 see a problem. I mean, people have the freedom of thought and the freedom of speech. And I didn't,

00:06:34.780 I wasn't insulted by what he said.

00:06:37.160 To me, that was him expressing his thoughts.

00:06:40.140 And I think that's okay for people to do.

00:06:43.240 I mean, I look at it in Canada.

00:06:45.840 That's how the gay and lesbian and trans communities got rights,

00:06:51.000 was by people using their freedom of thought and freedom of speech

00:06:54.720 to convince others that there should be rights in the way that there are today.

00:06:59.300 So it troubles me, actually, to see that this desire to take away those same rights and freedoms, actually, not just rights, but freedoms of others from whatever purpose.

00:07:11.220 well I think I know what you say

00:07:17.080 but like you know did you see

00:07:18.240 you at least I think

00:07:21.240 agree with the fundamental

00:07:22.940 superstructure of

00:07:26.360 free speech in that

00:07:27.960 you at least will

00:07:30.600 grant someone the right

00:07:32.280 to speak even if it's offensive

00:07:34.400 even if it's something you disagree

00:07:36.920 with you know

00:07:38.280 you've been clear there

00:07:39.840 um but it's still okay to be offended was there anything he said in it that you know you you were

00:07:46.800 like ah you know i know i think that was hurtful that was offensive i did because it's okay to say

00:07:52.940 that too yeah no i still i didn't firm their right to say it i didn't find anything he said offensive

00:07:57.300 but i can see how others would find it offensive but i didn't personally didn't find it offensive

00:08:01.940 Okay. So I know the principal, you know, she canned him. And this was a volunteer job. He was not getting paid for this. He was doing it for over a decade, a volunteer position as a defensive coordinator.

00:08:16.080 um he you know the school came at him or the principal at least came at him uh saying you

00:08:23.040 know this is this violates uh you know the alberta schools act which guarantees you know safe space

00:08:30.400 you know implying that this is hurtful and offensive that uh it's it's uninclusive of

00:08:37.200 trans people etc did you find anything that he said in there would that meet any of that definition

00:08:44.700 No, I didn't find anything in there that he said would be, you know, hurtful in that way.

00:08:49.120 Not to me, to others, perhaps.

00:08:51.440 And I'm not, I don't know the definition that they use in safe space.

00:08:55.320 And to me, that's an important piece.

00:08:56.780 So if safe space is physical safety, okay, that's a pretty simple one.

00:09:01.240 Like, when are people physically safe?

00:09:03.420 But just the content, the tone around the story and around safety and education seems to be about,

00:09:10.760 well we'll make sure you'll never hear anything you don't want to hear that that's the whether

00:09:16.580 it's the written definition or the working definition of a safe space it's like how is that

00:09:22.260 how do you have freedom of speech how do you have freedom of speech if you people don't get to say 0.71

00:09:31.300 what they think oh well the safe space but then you you cut out any other sides of the conversation

00:09:37.180 so someone then decides what's allowable for speech and what's not and that's significantly

00:09:42.700 problematic for society i believe um i mean there's so he's a coach of a football team um

00:09:52.280 you know a lot of the controversy uh i think kind of the beginning of pushback towards more extreme

00:09:58.960 gender ideology began with especially with um trans people in sports particularly and it tends 0.66

00:10:05.620 to go in one direction towards playing

00:10:07.500 in women's sports.

00:10:08.920 I have not, maybe

00:10:11.540 there's been an example, I'm not aware of any

00:10:13.400 examples where

00:10:14.300 a biological female identifies as a 0.96

00:10:17.500 male and says, I want to play

00:10:19.020 against the males.

00:10:21.380 Unaware. Maybe it's

00:10:23.500 happened somewhere, but I'm not

00:10:25.440 aware where it's happened, particularly

00:10:27.180 in a contact sport or

00:10:28.980 very physically strenuous sports.

00:10:32.620 How do you view

00:10:34.900 uh trans people particularly people who identify as a woman playing in women's sports well it's

00:10:41.840 the challenge for me is at the competitive sport level so if it's recreational or intramural like

00:10:47.300 if it's an intramural level sport or co-ed if it's that level oh if it's co-ed then it's a

00:10:52.220 good issue if it's co-ed it's a good thing but if it's that same level of you know just it's fun

00:10:56.820 thursday night bowling it's it's not yeah i don't care i don't care about that but it's the

00:11:02.380 competitive stuff it's when someone who's they go from being participating as biological male now

00:11:08.600 they're a trans a trans woman so and they say well I need to compete against the females why do you 0.99

00:11:13.500 need to compete against them if it's for the enjoyment of sport and the camaraderie of team

00:11:17.600 of a team you don't need to be at the competitive level to do that to get those things so why do

00:11:24.040 you have to play at the highest level to where you dominate I mean all over rural Alberta people who

00:11:30.700 and and western canada people have grown up like like like i did where you know if you're a big kid

00:11:37.340 which i was you don't make sure you don't hurt anybody when you're playing you know even in

00:11:42.460 until you're at the highest competitive levels and somehow that seems to have gotten that safety

00:11:47.020 of other participants seems to have gotten lost in the the desire and for these trans women to

00:11:57.020 win. It's like, well, there's more

00:11:59.460 to it than simply winning. Giving your

00:12:01.340 best, yes, but in sport

00:12:03.380 there's the freedom. If you want that

00:12:05.260 level of competition, get into capitalism

00:12:07.400 because that's ruthless.

00:12:09.300 But sport, there's rules around who

00:12:11.400 can be there.

00:12:12.680 But it's not just

00:12:13.760 safety as well.

00:12:17.220 Competitive swimming, no one's going to get

00:12:19.360 hurt if

00:12:20.460 you know, what was the famous one?

00:12:23.660 Leah

00:12:24.020 in the States.

00:12:25.680 um leah thomas okay yeah um you know she uh dominated no one got physically hurt because 1.00

00:12:35.500 because he or she could swim faster than everyone else but it was just a matter of fairness and

00:12:42.500 fairness is such a cornerstone of sport yeah um for lack of better term sportsmanship you know

00:12:48.880 um you know i'm i'm a bigger guy too um you know i i used to do kickboxing and stuff and i'd be

00:12:56.220 matched up against people in my weight class right um because it would be on what i feel

00:13:02.840 maybe you know what i'd love going in and being like kramer beating up people a quarter my size

00:13:09.240 in jujitsu well sure it feels good to win but but it would sap the real satisfaction of because

00:13:16.740 it's unsportsmanlike. You know, if I was

00:13:18.740 to, you know, kickbox against someone

00:13:20.640 half my size, it's unsportsmanlike.

00:13:23.860 Now, that's, again,

00:13:24.900 that's a physical violent sport where someone 1.00

00:13:26.640 could get hurt.

00:13:28.400 But, you know, I think the same sense of sportsmanship

00:13:30.900 would apply then when it comes to

00:13:32.720 trans people in non-violent, 0.83

00:13:35.280 less physically confrontational

00:13:37.080 sports, like Liam Thomas

00:13:38.620 in swimming.

00:13:40.200 I think there's a fairness

00:13:42.500 component there, too. I mean, in Alberta,

00:13:44.660 we've had the, I mean,

00:13:46.460 the Edmonton grads basketball team, they were, they were a force starting about a hundred years

00:13:51.540 ago. They won 500 games and only lost 20 in 25 years. It was an incredible run. But even then

00:13:57.860 in Alberta, it was important to have female sports and female only. And how did they determine that? 1.00

00:14:04.520 Well, they went with birth, sex and genitals. Maybe they understood how that affected hormone

00:14:09.620 systems or not, but they clearly knew that, you know, that female had different abilities and 1.00

00:14:14.580 And there was a different, it was even then important to be fair by having women compete against the women and not against the men.

00:14:22.380 And I think the push, the trans push has really been in the last five to 10 years of changing that. 0.56

00:14:28.260 And I think the push now and what Teed was talking was getting back to where we were for those first, those previous nine years.

00:14:34.020 So your ideas are, I think, I may, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they'd be seen as heretical in kind of the gender ideology movement that among, among at least many who put themselves up as spokesmen or spokeswomen for back of their turn of the trans community.

00:14:57.940 you know there's this ideology that uh you should not only use my pronouns but you must believe

00:15:03.160 i am this i've declared myself this therefore i am this uh you know you said uh you know it's

00:15:10.220 important to have women or female only sports but they would say well i am a female and there's no 0.99

00:15:16.920 you know trans women are women there is no splitting of hairs here that that they are one 0.99

00:15:22.760 end the same and there is no distinction to be made um you would seem to have a heretical views

00:15:30.580 for a trans person how how do you fit in with it how does a conversation when you're speaking to

00:15:36.900 someone who's got a more heterodox view uh within the ideology go well some of them think that me

00:15:44.240 being here with you today is me being incredibly brave and others think i'm a traitor there's that

00:15:50.580 range. It depends a lot on the individual, what they, what they're trying to get in that

00:15:55.020 leadership role, um, how they believe. Um, but it really, it's a real range. And, and, you know,

00:16:00.720 I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm definitely not in the majority, but that doesn't mean, but there's a, it's easy

00:16:06.780 to be part of the silent minority or, or majority as the case may be just, just because people are

00:16:12.920 loud doesn't mean their majority. It doesn't mean they're leaders.

00:16:16.480 But they probably, would they be the majority? You would be the minority. Would you?

00:16:20.360 I mean, it's hard for me to tell.

00:16:21.380 I don't know.

00:16:21.920 I can't tell.

00:16:23.560 But, I mean, yes, those voices are louder.

00:16:27.660 But I do get the impression they're probably the majority within that.

00:16:31.580 They would hold that ideology within kind of broader trans people.

00:16:35.780 Often that they talk about, they'll talk about the trans or the 2SLGBQ community.

00:16:42.180 And they'll talk about that as a community and who belongs to that and who doesn't.

00:16:47.060 And for the community, there, there's a couple of things that they tend to focus on.

00:16:52.200 And one of them is your political affiliation.

00:16:55.880 They're, they're all leftist.

00:16:58.280 And if you're not, it's an end.

00:17:00.200 It's like, well, come, come be this, come be with the NDP.

00:17:03.220 That's awesome.

00:17:03.740 Whatever it's like.

00:17:04.580 And it's like, there's no, they don't want people to think about why they would be a certain place.

00:17:10.700 So, but there are not individual groups of the same, of sexual and gender

00:17:18.320 minorities that are on the political right.

00:17:21.920 So how many, how many would there be if there was a group?

00:17:24.980 I mean, if I've met a few people, they just, they don't define

00:17:28.340 themselves by their sexual, sexual preference, sexual orientation and

00:17:32.900 gender status, whereas those that are part of the community, that's how they, 0.98

00:17:35.980 that's how they lead everything in their life.

00:17:38.960 That's how they define themselves.

00:17:40.920 And people I've met who are more conservative, they define themselves just by, you know, treating others with respect.

00:17:46.500 They just want to live their lives and go on and not get discriminated against because of that.

00:17:52.420 But they're not actively pushing for that.

00:17:54.560 So trying to measure the size of those two groups because they're so different and one congregates and one actually disperses.

00:18:02.560 So how big is it?

00:18:03.520 I have no idea.

00:18:04.760 I've met a few people, but not because of anything that's organized.

00:18:08.000 yeah like i've met a oh in terms of the people i actually know trans people like

00:18:14.240 i have some kind of relationship with most of them tend to be conservatives but i tend to hang

00:18:20.080 out now i've got lefty friends too but i tend to hang out with more conservative people uh i i know

00:18:26.220 a number and i guess what distinguishes them from uh you know gender ideologues is that they don't

00:18:34.900 require me to suspend belief or what i know to be true um and it's just not pushy it's well this is

00:18:43.600 who i am this is how i present as and take it or leave it just be respectful to me and and that's

00:18:50.260 something i'm i i can do that that's that's something i think i can do for any human being

00:18:55.680 um but i would imagine to be you know you're you're at a conservative conference uh for the

00:19:01.940 strong and free network there's gonna be some maybe can't do that for you you know have you

00:19:08.020 had many experiences with people on the right who uh they're not good enough with you just not being

00:19:13.780 pushy but no they're outright hostile you know i don't think anybody's ever been hostile i've had

00:19:20.420 lots of people that don't they don't make eye contact with me and they don't want to talk to

00:19:24.660 me i'm like well i cannot talk to them too but people that i've talked to i've had people come

00:19:29.060 up and introduce themselves to me and anybody I've introduced, they, they lead with respect.

00:19:34.220 And that's what I, that's how I try to interact with people as well.

00:19:37.940 But when you lead with respect to somebody from Alberta or Western Canada, they often

00:19:42.920 reflect it back, it's actually quite difficult for them to be insulted back or angry back

00:19:47.620 if you lead with respect to them.

00:19:49.520 And so, but that simply, you know, being polite, respectful, joining, starting a conversation

00:19:54.560 with a smile on hi how are you goes away goes a ways to just having a conversation much like you

00:20:00.080 and i did and as opposed to me starting oh by you know with it with a frown on my face and saying

00:20:06.340 well my pronouns are this and this and therefore you must be addressed me this way yeah those are

00:20:10.820 two very different starts of conversation you start a conversation like that i i don't care

00:20:15.300 what you are what you identify as i'm gonna feel right it's it's just it's in the but there are

00:20:21.040 some people who do that and they there's some trans people and and others and and it's a big

00:20:25.680 thing in the trend and kind of think tige kind of touched on this in his video kind of that focus on

00:20:30.600 pronouns and because really the pronouns that he's talking about and that trans people would be or

00:20:36.020 and and others introduce cells on it's the third person pronouns so you and i are here so i me and

00:20:43.200 myself that's first person pronouns you and you are a second person now those aren't controversial

00:20:48.180 and if we're having a conversation and John is filming us those joint ones of first and second

00:20:53.840 that's not controversial no but it's the he she him her they them that's a controversy that's the

00:21:00.480 words that people use to describe someone after they've left the conversation or in writing and

00:21:07.940 for me personally I was like well do I want like what's my what do I want to do with that and I

00:21:13.420 went you know what I don't care what people use I don't want to be policing what people say about

00:21:20.000 me when I'm not there for one thing and the second thing is just respecting people's freedom of

00:21:24.420 thought and freedom expression to say what they want so they can say what they want about how

00:21:29.280 they observe me yeah I uh you know maybe this will get me in trouble legally I'm going to say it

00:21:36.680 anyway uh uh you know we're always hiring new reporters and whatnot here if I get a resume

00:21:42.760 that comes across and I see pronouns, it's instantly in the garbage. And it's mostly not

00:21:50.080 trans people. It's non-trans people who are just like, I just feel the need to put it out there 1.00

00:21:56.180 and show how righteous I am. And I just, so it's a personality thing. It's not even their ideology.

00:22:01.220 It's a personality thing that you feel the need to put your pronouns right up there. So I'll take

00:22:06.660 those resumes that go straight in the garbage. And I've had staff sometimes say like, oh, but

00:22:11.440 Like, this is, you know, like, yeah, they're really qualified.

00:22:13.440 I'm like, I just don't want to deal with them. 1.00

00:22:14.720 They're an asshole. 1.00

00:22:16.140 You know, it's because it's just, it's just such a, such a upfront virtue signal that it's just so off-putting. 1.00

00:22:25.780 And it's the majority of people doing that are not trans people.

00:22:28.740 Right.

00:22:29.620 Because those third-person pronouns are important to almost everybody.

00:22:34.740 Right?

00:22:35.040 Almost all men would be insulted to be called a she.

00:22:38.280 Almost all women would be insulted to be called a he.

00:22:41.440 So they're important to everybody, but the third-person pronouns just are not self-evident.

00:22:46.180 They're just not evident when you meet or look at a trans person.

00:22:49.680 So it's, and then some trans people choose something else, like something that's not

00:22:55.060 one of those standards, a new word like Z or Z or something.

00:22:58.000 Everybody goes, yeah, what is that?

00:22:59.000 They've been inventing words.

00:22:59.920 They're inventing words.

00:23:01.200 English is a weird language and words have been invented over time.

00:23:03.540 It's an adaptable language, but we don't artificially need to do it for that.

00:23:06.920 Right?

00:23:07.180 So we'll see how that turns out in a hundred years, right?

00:23:10.480 But, but that's, so it's the, but yeah, third person problems are important to almost everybody.

00:23:18.140 It's just they're, they're, they're, they're less evident for some of these traps.

00:23:22.820 Yeah.

00:23:23.520 Yeah.

00:23:23.800 English is an evolving, like, I mean, anyone who's had to read Shakespeare in high school

00:23:27.880 is like, yeah, okay.

00:23:29.120 This, this language has had some, it's had a few reboots from time to time, but it tends

00:23:34.680 to be organic and then it gets codified in dictionaries and thesaurus, you know, that

00:23:39.940 the audiologists went straight

00:23:43.300 all the way to the end

00:23:44.840 they skipped organic development of language

00:23:47.440 and went all the way to codified

00:23:49.460 and not just in the dictionary but in the law

00:23:51.600 and it was like no no no

00:23:53.400 you've skipped a few

00:23:55.180 a few points in how this language

00:23:57.620 works

00:23:58.100 so yeah

00:24:00.800 and I think that set

00:24:02.300 the trans movement back so far 0.99

00:24:04.720 this overreach and a desire

00:24:07.640 to codify everything in law

00:24:09.440 rather than... I mean, I think

00:24:11.920 the more traditional gay, lesbian rights

00:24:13.940 movement overreached at times

00:24:16.160 too, but it did begin much

00:24:18.140 more organically. It began

00:24:20.040 with Corey Morgan.

00:24:22.180 He went to some of the early

00:24:23.360 pride marches in Calgary before it became

00:24:25.780 a more overtly sexual display. It was

00:24:27.780 just about like, oh, we're here, we exist.

00:24:30.120 You can't make us go away.

00:24:32.240 We're here.

00:24:32.820 And it

00:24:34.820 took time. And I'm

00:24:36.860 sure it was very frustrating for people

00:24:38.460 in the movement at that time but they built acceptance organically over time and they

00:24:44.360 convinced people yes sometimes they tried to codify and force people to speak a certain way

00:24:51.240 or not speak a certain way and that was overreach and i but i think that was actually damaging when

00:24:55.500 they did that um but yeah then once trans ideology became a thing it went it went from like zero to

00:25:02.060 100 it went from like we exist to like you will suspend belief in what you think and you can't

00:25:07.480 speak this way you will speak this way not just banning speech but also compelled speech we go

00:25:11.940 back to early george peterson stuff that it just went from zero to a hundred and and i and that's

00:25:18.500 not how you build friends it's not how you win friends and influence people yes you know that's

00:25:23.200 that's how you get people to be like you yeah yeah okay um so kind of bringing it back to what

00:25:31.680 Tiege was talking about in his video. He was talking about

00:25:33.640 trans shooters. 0.96

00:25:35.660 I think it can be overstated

00:25:38.340 and understated. I know that's a

00:25:39.840 you know, that's a waffling

00:25:41.740 Canadian statement. We're always

00:25:43.600 trying to split the difference and not

00:25:45.120 seem too extreme on either side. But

00:25:47.360 I think it can be overstated and it can be

00:25:49.620 understated.

00:25:51.440 It can be understated in the, you know,

00:25:54.380 some who feel invested in the ideology

00:25:55.820 say, well, this is just not a thing.

00:25:57.860 They're trying to sweep it under the rug.

00:25:59.480 But it can also be overstated in that

00:26:01.680 Oh my God, this is the new thing.

00:26:04.760 Every act of terrorism or assassination, mass shootings, etc. 1.00

00:26:10.840 It's all trans people, and all trans people are this violent threat. 1.00

00:26:14.400 I think it can be definitely overstated that way. 0.97

00:26:16.980 The data doesn't bear it out that that's the case.

00:26:21.420 But it can also be understated.

00:26:23.300 But this is a thing.

00:26:25.120 It's emerging.

00:26:25.540 It's pretty new.

00:26:27.240 um but you know we had uh so we had the the mass shooter at that uh catholic school um in minnesota

00:26:36.460 um this trans person and very clearly i uh motivated by ideology in that case uh and

00:26:45.420 that's what tj was talking about in his video um we'll save charlie kirk for a moment because that

00:26:52.420 happened after his video yeah we'll get to charlie kirk uh in a moment and because that's

00:26:57.200 we'll get uh uh but how much of an issue do you think it is because you know um i think

00:27:07.300 in trans ideologies some i think there are people with genuine gender dysphoria and it's not been

00:27:14.120 addressed by society for a long time and it's healthy that we well we should address it the

00:27:18.340 The way we have addressed it, I think, is not particularly healthy.

00:27:21.040 But it should be addressed openly and compassionately.

00:27:25.340 But the ideology, I think, has also pushed a ton of people into it,

00:27:28.620 especially young people, and disproportionately young girls,

00:27:32.220 or biological girls, who are coming into it. 0.99

00:27:36.840 And it's out of whack for the numbers.

00:27:38.980 They don't have genuine gender dysphoria of any kind.

00:27:43.040 It's just, you know, you've been a teenager.

00:27:46.080 It's a confusing freaking time.

00:27:48.960 I mean, no one comes through that phase.

00:27:52.860 I used to list a limb biscuit.

00:27:55.800 Like, no one goes through being a teen without some confusion, right?

00:28:02.600 Part of exploring who a person is.

00:28:04.220 Yeah.

00:28:05.340 And so it's just kind of become this weird phenomenon.

00:28:10.520 um but you know gender dysphoria uh you know it's obviously a confused person with some issues to

00:28:21.240 resolve and it can be resolved in one direction or another whatever um but do you think there

00:28:28.320 is something to it that now we do have an emerging phenomenon where the issues that trans people are

00:28:34.680 dealing with uh you could potentially make them in some cases obviously not all it's still an

00:28:41.040 extremely small minority but uh in some cases uh where it allows us to maybe brush past mental

00:28:48.580 health issues um and ignore underlying mental health issues because it's just been papered over

00:28:53.860 with this uh and then it's going to lead to tragic outcomes like we had in minnesota

00:28:58.520 well there there's a lot in there playing what you said yeah yeah unpack it as you'd like

00:29:05.880 the uh um but maybe let's start with the just the relationship of the trans movement to

00:29:12.260 christianity and because that's one there's there i've met a lot of trans people and and people

00:29:18.080 gay lesbian wherever they've been individually just horribly treated in an instance by someone

00:29:25.500 who was conservative and someone or a small group of people and a lot of them they they impact they

00:29:32.300 blame all conservatives for that rather than blaming those individuals and so they continue

00:29:37.100 when they see something about so there's a lot of distrust of christians there's a lot of just

00:29:41.980 and and they've been a lot of them have been hurt by conservatives in the same way

00:29:45.740 like sometimes like emotionally mentally some have been fired some physically so it's kind

00:29:50.940 kind of a vengeance so it's well it's it's part from i don't like as they're perceiving it yeah

00:29:57.220 they're looking at they're looking at as how do they like they're they're uh they're looking at

00:30:03.340 not who did it to them but the group and so they're blaming the group and then how are they're trying

00:30:09.420 to act out against the group and so there's a lot of distrust of the group of conservative groups

00:30:15.260 and of Christian groups within that entire,

00:30:19.180 and that's not a surprise if you go on social media

00:30:21.940 from anybody who's at those groups

00:30:23.720 are often the ones that are the focus

00:30:25.900 of the trans or gay lesbian speaker,

00:30:30.780 like the activists.

00:30:32.700 So that's the piece that's underlying it,

00:30:35.360 that is underlying it.

00:30:36.660 Now, for me, the better way forward

00:30:38.680 is how do we get those individuals

00:30:40.840 into instead of feeling to remain as victims as they go through life whenever they see something

00:30:48.580 Christian conservative? How do they get them to be the counseling or whatever help they need

00:30:54.460 so they can, to the extent possible, leave those impacts behind them and live a better life,

00:31:01.320 a life that, you know, more fulfilling, less focus on negative. And that's not,

00:31:06.820 It's a very individual, because each person has had such individual trauma, for lack of a better word, of what's happened to them.

00:31:15.760 Now, and in the States, and there's been a couple of incidents, there's been some incidents, I follow U.S., that kind of stuff, as little as possible.

00:31:23.300 So I follow only when I'm like fourth, it punches me in the face, I've had no choice but to follow America, yeah.

00:31:29.060 So it, so, but, but America has always been, was, uh, been a more violent society than Canada has.

00:31:36.100 I mean, going back to the founding of the countries, they were birthed in a revolution.

00:31:39.700 We were birthed peacefully over long periods of time, both from the.

00:31:42.580 With a ship full of vodka.

00:31:43.540 Yeah.

00:31:43.940 Yeah.

00:31:44.500 So it's just very different and just very different histories, um, of how we deal with,

00:31:49.300 how we deal with challenges and issues.

00:31:51.620 Um, and even in, and that's even true in the, in the, in the gay movement. 0.66

00:31:55.380 so many in the gay movement and part of pride is is a is remembering the stonewall riots in 1969

00:32:02.660 june 28th was it was when they started well in canada it was the day before where homosexuality 0.99

00:32:09.540 was decriminalized it was literally before the stonewall right day before if wikipedia's got

00:32:13.780 both dates right i did not know that so that would be the day that that's the day the bill came in

00:32:18.100 was assented to so canada was already it was already legal here and in america they were just

00:32:24.180 starting to riot or the next day they start now that i don't think that's why they started writing

00:32:28.420 america never pays attention to what we're doing so but it wasn't those riots that got us started

00:32:34.180 on that path that legal that legal recognition here that was the more of a canadian historic

00:32:40.280 canadian way discussion and debate and and discussion and debate and and diplomacy how do

00:32:47.000 we how do we do this what do we work together and talking to each other so i think so part of i

00:32:52.440 think what's happening you know with some shooters in the states that's that's been in will there be

00:32:57.220 sadly the u.s has a long history of shooters um for through for a variety of reasons and a variety

00:33:05.260 of different things there was in the 80s and 90s there was there was a a number of shooters that

00:33:11.620 were postal workers that was a thing for a while yeah go on postal we still say it right so it even

00:33:16.440 made it into language but the but so is that something that's like to continue well that

00:33:21.320 We don't hear about people who are postal workers in the States.

00:33:24.940 Maybe they give them a big raise or something.

00:33:26.420 I don't know.

00:33:26.860 I have no idea.

00:33:27.520 Postal workers seem to be pregnant. 0.99

00:33:28.080 But it's no longer a thing down in the States about that for sure.

00:33:32.380 And so, you know, I'm hopeful that there's, that it does not continue, but it, but it

00:33:37.260 really comes down to, it only takes a few individuals to make a lot of news in a really

00:33:43.620 negative way.

00:33:44.520 And nobody can, I mean, there's how, no group can control their individuals to that.

00:33:51.320 extent is kind of how i look at um but you know i talked about um you know perhaps in some cases

00:34:01.480 we're we're just putting you know transitioning someone's uh gender uh as kind of a just a generic

00:34:09.240 fix-all onto anyone who's got any kind of underlying mental health issues uh you know i

00:34:14.440 kind of think of you know the video meme where uh you know there's like things you know leaking or

00:34:19.520 something and the guy has like this super tape and he just slaps it on things that it's you know

00:34:23.280 it's kind of a meme for like this is the solution to all yeah yeah yeah you know he's got like a

00:34:27.960 leaky tank he's got like a bode cut in half he cuts it on it um you know uh i think you know

00:34:33.620 there's genuine trans people with genuine trans uh gender dysphoria but then you know like the 0.80

00:34:40.560 numbers we're seeing among young kids it's obviously not uh you know you know when you've

00:34:47.980 got huge percentages of young kids again disproportionately young girls identifying

00:34:52.080 as males uh that's obviously not all genuinely trans people um and it's you know we would need

00:35:02.560 to explore this more but i i i want your take on you know are we taking transitioning as just kind

00:35:09.660 of a fix-all for for people who might have going through just normal uh or maybe more extreme just

00:35:18.840 but confusion and your teen years or people who have mental health issues and we're just kind of

00:35:23.120 slapping transitioning on as like oh that'll fix it you're feeling uncomfortable that's that's

00:35:29.020 gonna fix it there i've heard that from parents of teenagers that it's just it's too easy to go

00:35:35.820 from being a teenager going well you know like i have questions about who i am to them coming out

00:35:42.060 with the diagnosis of being trans it takes that it seems to be very a very short time period not a

00:35:48.620 lot of questions or counseling not a lot of curiosity what's there and for me and so that

00:35:53.660 to me is a concern because there are people that are they've they've transitioned in life for

00:35:58.700 whatever reason and then they're even more unhappy after their transition and some of them transition

00:36:04.700 back. So now they're called a de-transitioner. Boy, those people are loathed by the trans 0.99

00:36:10.640 community. Why is that? I don't know. Well, because it doesn't fit with the community 0.95

00:36:16.980 thing. But you're supposed to present as the gender you feel. And if someone says,

00:36:20.240 no, no, I actually, I, maybe I, I shouldn't have done that. I'm going back to my, my birth

00:36:25.060 sex. Uh, what would be the, what's the source of that hostility? I don't know. There's the

00:36:29.780 same human that you liked before. Why do you throw them out? Because they're now want to

00:36:33.920 be themselves i i i think the answer is um uh is it's not limited to trans people i think it's

00:36:44.160 for all people it's it's our natural tribalism that um you're might be fine with someone in a

00:36:50.700 different tribe but you always hate the person who left your tribe okay you know no one likes

00:36:56.920 like everyone hates uh you know think in politics you might dislike some liberal on the other side

00:37:03.760 because you're a conservative or a conservative or a liberal

00:37:05.660 dislikes a conservative, but everyone hates

00:37:07.780 the guy who crossed the floor.

00:37:09.440 Because he was on a team and he

00:37:11.520 went to the other team.

00:37:14.080 And so, you know, minority 0.97

00:37:15.680 groups will have a sense of

00:37:17.580 tribalism about them. And, you know, I've got

00:37:19.680 political tribalism about me and, you know,

00:37:21.700 or my Alberta sense of about it. I've got

00:37:23.680 my own tribes.

00:37:25.420 I don't think of my gender as a tribe

00:37:27.160 because I'm not in a minority of any

00:37:29.660 kind there. But,

00:37:30.720 you know, trans people are

00:37:33.580 minority and I guess they would see themselves as a tribe and someone leaving and it's a and it also

00:37:38.580 it tests the argument that well maybe not everyone who transitioned should have transitioned and it

00:37:44.640 means we have to take these issues a bit more soberly with a bit more time I think it's just

00:37:51.100 old-fashioned tribalism well that applies to everyone well that that is part of that is that

00:37:56.680 I mean that's a spot that we should be researching so who was this person before why did they

00:38:02.520 transition and and transition back so we can then figure help figure out who should transition in

00:38:08.200 the first place and who should not so let's learn from the things and the community stick that

00:38:13.560 community that to us they say they love everybody but they sure don't love the people that de-transition 1.00

00:38:20.120 yeah they have to put the d in the in the alphabet the alphabet seems to get infinitely long but they

00:38:24.280 won't let me for de-transition that's i hadn't thought of that one before we have i get to propose

00:38:29.160 a new letter for the name you know what i don't have the credibility for it you you're gonna have

00:38:33.960 to leave that file i don't think they're gonna listen to me so and about and about the disproportionate

00:38:39.880 number of women about transition and so that that is a good well i mean that that is particularly

00:38:47.000 just for very young people like high school age and and maybe early you know uh early college

00:38:51.560 university age it's very young i think when we get older the numbers become more even and

00:38:56.360 or might even tilt in favor of biological men becoming women. 0.98

00:38:59.300 But among the very young, it's, it's, it's really heavily tilted towards biological girls.

00:39:05.340 So I have two theories on that.

00:39:07.800 One is the girls go in a pack. 1.00

00:39:09.300 And so that if one truly is, then others will go just together to be supportive.

00:39:15.420 And the other theory is that they get, when they get in, when, when girls and young women 0.86

00:39:20.020 get into that age, they see how much of the world is still a man's world and how they're 0.99

00:39:24.780 still they see what biases are there and they see that and in past generations like back 100 years

00:39:32.020 ago when the women banded together to get the vote um in the 60s for the that type of rebel 1.00

00:39:37.360 for equal pay it's things like that they banded together to change and now it's possible this is

00:39:43.200 one of my theories that those young women are instead of they're going change the world well

00:39:47.500 if i can just change my gender now i'm playing on the other team i hadn't considered that one uh

00:39:52.600 That seems plausible as the one possible, especially in, especially in areas.

00:39:57.700 I mean, it's possible, but I, I mean, there's this gender research struggles for dollars

00:40:04.580 because it's one of the things that the feds don't want to fund because it's been, it's

00:40:10.360 the science has settled.

00:40:11.620 It's like, no, we're still evolving.

00:40:13.320 This is, we're still learning.

00:40:14.740 We should be learning more.

00:40:17.160 Yeah.

00:40:17.520 the other i'd say and i'm not speaking with any expertise here but um you know is that you know

00:40:23.760 perhaps puberty might be tougher on girls than it is for boys um you know i've discussed this

00:40:29.600 with my wife and uh she's pretty even killed woman but you know she's talked about you know

00:40:34.660 when you know when she was a young girl going through puberty just how just totally mucks with

00:40:40.380 everybody and it definitely messes with boys too yes we get we go totally not in our own way but

00:40:45.580 it's in a different way um and so you know perhaps it's more disruptive perhaps it's more confusing

00:40:51.340 to girls it's definitely disruptive and confusing to boys i said i listen to limp biscuit how weird

00:40:55.940 is that right uh i mean there's still a couple bangers i'll listen to but yeah it's bad it's bad

00:41:00.900 um but yeah you know just perhaps it's just that puberty is more destructive uh to young girls

00:41:07.200 than to boys i i i i don't have the expertise to say but and i've got a young boy and a young girl

00:41:13.380 neither have entered puberty yet i'm gonna have my own experiment that i'm gonna have to live

00:41:17.860 through uh soon enough i'll be i'll be able to make my own um controlled experiment about which

00:41:25.700 one goes crazier yeah but i am expecting both to go crazy yeah oh yes yeah okay um

00:41:33.100 i i guess we'll bring back back kind of towards the shooter outside is maybe just more on the

00:41:40.400 ideological and political side is, you know, a lot of the language I, you know, I try to

00:41:45.640 empathize. I don't mean the word empathy, the way it's used today in terms of like,

00:41:52.220 oh, I feel for you. No, just try to put yourself in the shoes and behind the glasses of someone

00:41:59.100 on the other side who you really might really disagree with or even loathe. And, you know,

00:42:06.800 a lot of these people are being told they should fear for their lives,

00:42:10.300 that people who don't share modern gender ideology,

00:42:14.260 their life is at risk.

00:42:15.200 Like someone's,

00:42:15.680 they're going to kill you or going to throw you in a camp or something.

00:42:20.980 That's why they seem to think that everyone that they're shooting is a 0.99

00:42:23.580 fascist.

00:42:25.900 And we'll explore that a bit more,

00:42:28.640 but they,

00:42:30.580 if they fear for their lives and they believe that this person they're

00:42:34.620 hitting uh we'll get to kirk but uh you know this institution okay it's a kids catholic school in

00:42:43.320 minnesota or uh you know similar shooting that i think was everything was nashville uh i don't

00:42:49.360 remember yeah um but these people seem to believe that people are out to kill them um minnesota is

00:42:57.260 also confusing it's like nihilism mixed in there it's it's it's a dog's breakfast of stuff um but

00:43:03.160 But if these people are being told that conservatives or Christians, name some vague group, they

00:43:14.780 want to kill you, that you should fear for your lives, that would legitimize violence.

00:43:20.640 If you fear for your life and you believe that this group is trying to deprive you of

00:43:24.460 your rights or your life itself, that would validate the use of violence to, if not protect

00:43:32.260 yourself at least protect your group in the minds of those people yeah yeah and that's and that's

00:43:37.060 how i'm trying to put myself in their shoes and so i'm like i do not feel that hatred that people

00:43:44.120 like of conservative christian groups but i sure know that it's that it is pushed within that

00:43:50.520 community that oh it's okay it's okay to hate those that hate you i'm like that doesn't equate

00:43:56.160 to love guys hate plus hate does not equal love and so if you really want people to love you and

00:44:02.960 want to love others and that's the life you want to live you need to leave the hate aside which is

00:44:07.740 hard for people to do especially those who've been hurt it's not that they can't do it they but it's

00:44:12.260 but they can't but it's hard to do so but that really comes down to it just sets a tone of fear

00:44:20.660 of people you know assuming the worst and you know I've heard multiple people that they they expect

00:44:27.020 like the the trans legislation here in Alberta that's coming to force now uh for sports and

00:44:32.840 schools and and health um and then in Saskatchewan that that's only the first step against that

00:44:40.260 entire community the gay lesbian trans community and seeing a really dystopian for future where 0.99

00:44:46.940 rights are stripped away and that's actually part of why i got involved in going to conservative

00:44:52.220 events i wanted to see what people were like when i met them or they like when i shook their hand

00:44:56.620 and said hi i'm sheila and it's been they've been fantastic so many people i've had great

00:45:01.500 conversations with you'll probably meet a few assholes but i'm trying you'll never meet some 0.93

00:45:06.380 i probably have met them but they weren't assholes to me in person i'm like okay 0.93

00:45:11.420 yeah well it's a starting point yeah so it's like so i'm like so but i also like i go to event and

00:45:18.200 but i've also looked at going to events like that i mean you stand out because you're famous

00:45:23.800 i stand out because i'm different right otherwise there's there's lots of lots of men in suits and

00:45:29.920 so they don't unless you're going to be on stage you're not distinguished the same way you don't

00:45:34.120 stand out the same way well i stand out just by showing up with a smile and walking around

00:45:37.980 that changes a lot of people in alberta i'm the first trans person they've met that they know yeah

00:45:44.460 and so i do my best to leave a good impression with people like treat them with respect so it

00:45:49.920 just so they can see there's another side to the world than what they see would what depending on

00:45:55.800 where they whatever they're doing on social media or whatever well we we talked we touched a bit

00:46:00.060 about this uh offline before we came to the studio here at my office um or i i i really like in person

00:46:07.040 interviews particularly if it's someone i disagree with yeah a lot or even and there might be a

00:46:12.800 personality i know from on the screen and i really i really hate them all they get under my skin or 0.69

00:46:18.400 something um i like to have them in studio because you're going to treat them as a person like when

00:46:24.340 you speak in person you're more likely to treat someone as a person right um you know the analogy 0.99

00:46:28.660 i used before we started here was you know we've all been uh cut off by some little asshole in 0.99

00:46:35.020 traffic and he gives you the finger like he's a tough guy you would never do it if you were if 0.98

00:46:39.440 he cut you off on a sidewalk he'd say oh sorry yeah yeah oh they're back to being a canadian 0.99

00:46:45.300 right yeah you know they say sorry because they accidentally cut you off uh there uh well there's

00:46:50.240 the implied threat of violence you generally just come to it but it's the implied threat that

00:46:54.600 theoretically you know if you you know a guy half my size gives me the finger well i i can theoretically

00:47:00.300 beat them up can't really do that in the car um you know and then you know so even more than in

00:47:05.420 the car is online everyone's a tough guy behind their keyboard everyone's a tough guy in person

00:47:12.780 you're you're forced to confront the humanity of people so i think for you know just a lot you just

00:47:16.460 people haven't met someone and they're only you know especially you know christian conservatives

00:47:21.580 Their experience with trans is some maniac on TikTok lecturing about pronouns or how they should transition children with the slightest of evidence. 0.87

00:47:38.340 And that's their exposure to it.

00:47:40.580 And in many ways, you know, and we have parodies of each other then.

00:47:44.100 And so then their experience with a right-wing Christian conservative is, you know, the mayor from Footloose, right?

00:47:53.260 You know, so, you know, so that's how we see each other.

00:47:55.560 We come up a parody because we don't even meet each other in person anymore.

00:48:00.960 The other thing that's been interesting at many of these events in conservative and just generally in society is how the number of people that have come up to me and told me that they just expressed how happy they are to see me being out and living like this.

00:48:14.100 because they've got they've got a lesbian daughter or they've got a trans nephew or something and

00:48:19.340 these are mostly a lot of them are christian conservative people they've really accepted

00:48:23.860 that person in their life but they're concerned about the future and i think that's actually

00:48:28.940 something for conservatives and conservatism to look at because those that's a lot of voters

00:48:33.980 when you add all the people up that love someone like a young person that's that's trans can add

00:48:40.220 to a lot of people and that's that's important number of voters is important in elections

00:48:46.460 okay well i've kept on punting it down the road down the road charlie kirk uh i was at the vigil

00:48:53.100 for charlie last night at uh city hall here there was another one at the alberta legislature in

00:49:00.060 edmonton uh and they were held all over the the planet huge ones you saw in south korea uh all

00:49:06.460 all of the states, Europe.

00:49:10.520 We don't know a ton about this yet.

00:49:14.820 There's uncredible theories.

00:49:17.600 It was Groypers. 0.61

00:49:20.060 It was Israel.

00:49:23.940 It was, you know,

00:49:26.280 those are kind of some of the furtherest ones out, I think.

00:49:30.940 We're still learning.

00:49:32.320 Apparently, this guy is not cooperating with law enforcement.

00:49:34.700 so

00:49:35.620 he's in Utah. If he's convicted

00:49:39.020 he's, they're putting him on the chair

00:49:40.900 and zapping him. They're putting him on

00:49:42.860 Sparky. If he's convicted here

00:49:44.860 he's getting sparked, so

00:49:46.240 but

00:49:48.740 the clearest picture we have

00:49:51.000 so far is, the person was not insane

00:49:53.180 this was not like

00:49:54.960 the Minnesota shooter, did you, I don't know

00:49:56.880 if you saw any of the videos before this person went on their shooting

00:49:58.880 rampage. No I didn't. It was one of the

00:50:00.900 scariest, just most, I don't use

00:50:02.820 the term lightly evil things it sounded like um from uh one of the newer batman movies the guy

00:50:09.260 who portrayed the joker it was just this terrifying laughter and nihilism uh like okay that's a crazy 0.73

00:50:17.860 very mentally ill person uh from what we can tell from charlie kirk's alleged assassin

00:50:25.040 is this an extremely smart person was in the 99th and even sometimes 100th percentile in scores it

00:50:30.980 was on a huge scholarship likely to for an engineering degree this was a very very smart

00:50:38.240 person no signs that they were crazy yeah but sometimes we can we conflate crazy with radical

00:50:44.820 you can be radical and not crazy and you can be crazy and not radical they're they're different

00:50:50.920 things and sometimes they overlap but very often not um uh as far as we could best we could tell

00:50:59.200 and maybe I have to correct this at some point later

00:51:01.520 but reliable enough

00:51:03.360 I think to go on for now is

00:51:04.660 this person 0.69

00:51:06.360 was not trans but was gay

00:51:09.460 living

00:51:11.480 with a trans person

00:51:13.520 who identified

00:51:15.380 as a female

00:51:16.780 I think

00:51:18.080 that's the best I got it

00:51:20.500 and

00:51:22.700 this person

00:51:24.500 came from a very

00:51:26.380 Republican family

00:51:28.140 The guy's from, like, rural Utah.

00:51:30.700 I mean, you think Southwest Alberta's conservative? 0.99

00:51:38.520 He ain't seen shit. 1.00

00:51:39.760 He ain't seen shit. 0.99

00:51:41.020 So this guy's from a very, very Republican, amongst the most Republican corners of America. 0.99

00:51:46.720 Right.

00:51:48.240 But became increasingly left and radicalized in recent years.

00:51:53.020 this person was seen

00:51:57.660 arguing with Charlie Kirk

00:51:59.420 at some of his events

00:52:01.020 there was a clip of that

00:52:02.600 he actually managed to get a question in

00:52:06.200 and so there was an interaction

00:52:08.300 there

00:52:08.720 if those in fact are the same people

00:52:12.260 and it appears that they are

00:52:13.700 the same people

00:52:14.300 and you know

00:52:16.820 he had written I guess this is a new thing to do

00:52:19.280 for acts of terrorism

00:52:21.320 assassination etc

00:52:22.340 you engrave messages

00:52:25.180 on your

00:52:26.060 on the casings of your

00:52:29.220 cartridges

00:52:29.580 and you know said hey fascist catch

00:52:33.420 and things like that

00:52:35.040 so

00:52:35.660 yeah and I don't know

00:52:39.160 so that's what we know there

00:52:40.740 now Charlie was literally

00:52:43.320 answering a question about

00:52:44.600 trans shooters 0.60

00:52:46.040 as he was shot his last

00:52:49.060 words was

00:52:50.560 gang violence.

00:52:52.660 It was like, does that include gang violence?

00:52:54.900 Did you see his last

00:52:56.500 sentence there before? No, I didn't.

00:52:58.260 It's worth watching. I don't know

00:53:00.600 if the timing of a shot was

00:53:02.540 lined up for that. I mean, if so,

00:53:05.600 this person,

00:53:06.520 they think the shot from 200 yards away.

00:53:08.560 I mean, you don't pick

00:53:10.540 up a rifle and fire a shot that accurately

00:53:12.740 in no time.

00:53:15.520 I mean, it comes from a Republican

00:53:16.620 family, so a good chance he grew up shooting.

00:53:18.600 200 yards, that's a good shot

00:53:21.060 I mean you don't have to be

00:53:23.620 you don't have to be an American sniper

00:53:25.240 to make that shot

00:53:25.940 but you're not going to be shooting at that level

00:53:29.160 with a couple days

00:53:31.320 practice

00:53:31.880 so this probably got at least some background with firearms

00:53:35.340 I don't know if

00:53:38.080 he was waiting for him to answer

00:53:41.160 a question just like this and that's when

00:53:43.300 he would fire

00:53:43.800 that'd be hell of a timing

00:53:45.880 so it's possible that

00:53:48.280 his answer in that question were just purely

00:53:50.120 coincidental.

00:53:51.400 I don't know.

00:53:55.620 I don't know.

00:53:57.320 Based on what you know,

00:53:59.620 do you think

00:54:00.200 gender ideology,

00:54:02.260 how much role do you think it played

00:54:03.580 in this? And I know we're being a bit speculative

00:54:06.340 at this point, but we're getting

00:54:07.860 and we don't have a clear picture,

00:54:10.400 but we're getting the

00:54:12.140 outlines.

00:54:13.880 Well, first of all, condolences to Charlie

00:54:16.200 Kirk's family and everybody who was

00:54:18.240 around there who loved him and that he loved them back and to everybody who looked up to him

00:54:22.840 because they've lost, they've lost somebody significant to them. Um, now, but about the

00:54:29.220 question about the, you know, does trans ideology play? And well, it was one of, it from, and I've

00:54:34.940 never seen, I didn't follow Charlie Kirk, haven't seen his things. So watching what's been in media

00:54:39.560 reports since then, uh, anti-trans or trans ideology was often the subject of his debates.

00:54:45.280 And if he was on campuses in the U.S., it wouldn't be a surprise if he regularly had questions about that and was answering in a way that the majority did not want to hear.

00:54:56.180 So, but, you know, that doesn't mean he sounds like he was a very effective debater.

00:55:01.940 Like he was like just he was just the you had him on South Park.

00:55:06.900 Yeah. Did you see it? No, I didn't.

00:55:09.060 You got to watch it. Charlie Kirk loved he made it his sorry to interrupt.

00:55:12.640 but he took

00:55:13.800 they put Charlie Kirk on

00:55:15.940 Cartman essentially became Charlie Kirk

00:55:18.560 but then Charlie Kirk himself

00:55:19.980 plays a role too and he took his image

00:55:22.740 as a South Park character and made it his profile

00:55:24.540 avatar for a while so he embraced

00:55:26.420 because he was the master

00:55:28.760 debater and

00:55:29.420 Eric Cartman couldn't stop master debating

00:55:32.640 it was

00:55:34.540 it was a total spoof of Charlie Kirk

00:55:36.880 but he took it well it was hilarious

00:55:38.660 because he was

00:55:40.100 even people didn't know him as soon as they showed you saw clips of me like oh that guy 0.99

00:55:44.640 he was just like verbally skewers like these hapless idiots on campus uh like everyone kind 0.57

00:55:53.580 of saw that like oh that guy okay once that happened yeah yeah yeah so it's i mean it's 0.98

00:55:59.440 tough to tell if there's like of what of the things that tarley kirk would regularly talk

00:56:05.080 about or his views whether it was whether trans was one of the ones that tied in with this

00:56:10.560 particular shooter it's tough i mean it it's possible because there's the link to the roommate

00:56:16.280 and the romantic link there that's been reported so but reading more into it into that i mean i

00:56:21.740 hope they they learn more um about this particular incident and of course they're investigating

00:56:28.000 because they build their criminal case right but they're um but it comes back to that it's for me

00:56:35.220 it comes back to that if you i mean the guy is charlie kirk was a debater so a master debater

00:56:41.140 yes so find your best debater and get on stage as well like that's the way that's the answer

00:56:45.280 that's the answer get your own charlie kirk right so not not having somebody from firing a rifle

00:56:52.760 now that doesn't mean that anyone else was it doesn't mean anyone else and there doesn't seem

00:56:57.620 be any indication from what i've seen so far that in the press that that he what i've seen is he

00:57:03.640 acted alone does not seem that there was anyone else that's the best we can see yeah so for right

00:57:08.760 now but the um but but but there's been a lot of people since then that they the in that i'll call

00:57:18.180 that trans community the trans activists that have expressed this horrific support for what 0.94

00:57:24.980 happened it's like that's there were there was a there was a very small handful of them

00:57:29.600 across the street from the vigil mourning him last night in halgary with signs uh condemning people

00:57:36.680 for mourning his death pretty much saying he deserved it yeah i i just i mean to me those

00:57:42.820 true leadership would be going denouncing the violence and putting the call okay who's who's

00:57:49.920 are debaters that can stand that can get on a stage with somebody like charlie kirk or whoever

00:57:55.340 else is on because i don't know who those people are but and and meet them on that stage with

00:58:00.240 microphones it's not bullets and rifles so how do we how do we solve this you know freedom yeah

00:58:04.720 freedom of thought and speech and that debate is a real freedom of speech thing you're going to hear

00:58:10.140 things you don't want to hear but that's okay you get your response you know i uh after seeing the

00:58:17.380 people uh who were protesting against the vigil apparently last night it was two of them there

00:58:23.940 were a couple uh antifa guys with uh masks on stuff they scattered the crowd there was we had

00:58:30.760 pretty good information that antifa wanted to come and disrupt the vigil last night but then

00:58:34.400 they saw there was like i don't know i messed up in 1500 people or something here so they're like

00:58:38.500 okay this is not gonna work out well uh you know they they generally have to have numerical

00:58:43.780 superiority, let alone be outnumbered 101

00:58:45.680 or something. So they didn't

00:58:47.860 do anything other than have these two

00:58:49.860 girls dressed as OnlyFans models on the other 0.96

00:58:51.880 side of the street. But

00:58:53.060 it got me thinking

00:58:56.060 in conversation with

00:58:57.500 a friend of mine when I was there,

00:59:00.160 like, have I ever celebrated

00:59:01.760 the death of anyone?

00:59:03.380 And being honest with myself, I can recall

00:59:05.620 one.

00:59:07.200 I remember I got the news when

00:59:09.480 Osama bin Laden was taken out. And I was like,

00:59:11.680 yeah, I did let out a

00:59:13.580 Putin made a toast and had a beer

00:59:15.600 with my friends to take it out of

00:59:17.380 Osama bin Laden. So I

00:59:19.480 have celebrated death. When

00:59:21.380 Hugo Chavez died, I didn't do

00:59:23.520 anything publicly, but I was like, yeah,

00:59:26.040 I'm kind of glad he

00:59:27.340 bit it. But in both of those cases,

00:59:30.020 they were people who murdered

00:59:31.280 innocent people. And

00:59:33.300 so I was glad when they bit it. They

00:59:35.380 killed people.

00:59:37.540 Osama bin Laden didn't just express 0.99

00:59:39.440 his crazy Islamist views, 0.94

00:59:41.460 and that would be reprehensible enough, 1.00

00:59:43.580 but he killed people 0.98

00:59:45.660 and advocated killing people. 0.96

00:59:47.040 Hugo Chavez killed people 0.99

00:59:49.480 and advocated killing people.

00:59:51.680 So that's kind of the out 0.95

00:59:53.380 I give myself there.

00:59:54.420 And even then,

00:59:55.200 I kind of thought,

00:59:55.880 ugh,

00:59:57.520 it's still not a good feeling

00:59:58.400 even to cheer their deaths.

00:59:59.380 They totally deserved it,

01:00:00.780 and I don't think I'm that bad

01:00:02.220 for cheering their deaths,

01:00:03.060 but I did,

01:00:04.220 and meh,

01:00:05.360 maybe I'm not as nice a guy

01:00:07.920 as I thought.

01:00:08.820 But that's where I drew it on.

01:00:09.820 Like, Hugo Chavez

01:00:10.540 and Osama Bin Laden.

01:00:12.860 But what could,

01:00:13.580 possibly bring me to be like yeah this guy who doesn't appear to have heard a fly in his life

01:00:18.880 uh just happened to be a little too effective against my side of things should bite it but

01:00:25.860 again the this ideology is steeped in words are violence they've been taught from the earliest

01:00:34.240 words are violence um that uh you know questioning should very young people transition uh

01:00:43.580 Their ideology says, well, that's going to lead to all these suicides, so people on our side are going to die, even though the evidence is that that is not actually helping the case, that people who transition prematurely before they know if they really, really should, they are significantly more likely to commit suicide.

01:01:00.120 So, you know, they are steeped in words of violence, and any questioning of this ideology leads to huge amounts of suicides, people die, and so violence is therefore justified.

01:01:14.240 Well, and it's a common theme from that, from the leftists.

01:01:19.000 So, and that includes us to me, but also just other people that are

01:01:22.100 not directly part of the communities.

01:01:24.000 Well, how can people think that?

01:01:27.540 And it's like, like how, not just how could people say that, but how can they

01:01:30.660 think that I'm like, well, that's, that's controlling people's like trying to

01:01:33.860 control what people say and think.

01:01:35.960 I was like, well, no, those are fundamental freedoms of individuals.

01:01:39.260 And when we talk about freedoms, we often don't include the word individual,

01:01:43.040 those are individual freedoms they're not freedoms of a group the group individuals may associate

01:01:48.800 by that freedom to make a group but it's not like well you must think this to be part of the group

01:01:54.560 no that's not that's not how it works that's not how individual freedoms work so it's it's

01:02:00.960 there's the the the you must think this to me it flies in the face of those fundamental freedoms

01:02:07.760 and so i don't like i don't like it and but i have heard people say that you know well you must do

01:02:12.880 this you must do that and that that culture that will lead with kind of the the lead with hate or

01:02:18.480 the continued victimization right like they kind of it might be the opposite two sides of the same

01:02:23.200 coin but that that hate is a way to solve the world's problems and you know everywhere from

01:02:28.560 jesus through to martin luther king we're like no no that's love is the way to to love love is the

01:02:34.160 only way to combat hate and that's not so turn the curtain he was debating but he sounded throughout

01:02:41.840 his life like a lover as opposed to a fighter he would fight with words but nothing more and

01:02:47.920 and that you know i think that's that we want more people in society that are they're willing

01:02:53.360 to fight with words but only words i think that is a good segue to or the point i want to finish

01:03:01.040 with here um you know the uh let's make sure we got uh pictures of those i call them the only fans

01:03:08.400 models um uh those people protesting more or less celebrating the assassination of charlie kirk

01:03:18.480 charlie kirk uh never i don't think ever has advocated violence but you know they had on

01:03:23.520 their signs uh i i asked them we got we have a little video of this we'll make sure we show it

01:03:28.560 you would like would you like to give your name no no okay uh why are you here uh protesting at

01:03:35.920 the charlie kirk vigil today i actually don't want to get an interview you don't want to do an

01:03:40.000 interview this man is worse the death of children and said that any deaths through gun violence are

01:03:45.360 worth it for the second amendment what else do i need to say i don't know that's all i need

01:03:51.600 so you do you believe his uh his killing was then justified because of that i'm not saying that i'm

01:03:57.200 He said no one should be mourning him.

01:04:00.200 Did he mourn Hitler?

01:04:02.200 Do we mourn Vegas Kong?

01:04:07.200 So you don't think these people should be mourning him because he supports the Second Amendment?

01:04:11.200 Because he endorsed kids dying.

01:04:14.200 He endorsed children dying?

01:04:16.200 Watch his interviews. I'm done. Thank you. You can put your camera away.

01:04:21.200 Is there anything else you'd like to say?

01:04:23.200 Nope.

01:04:24.200 They just have this warped view of what he said.

01:04:27.140 I know in politics, we cherry pick and uncharitably in the most uncharitable way possible interpret what the other side really means.

01:04:34.880 But, you know, he supported shooting kids and mass shootings.

01:04:38.360 So therefore, you know, if nothing else, he doesn't get to complain for getting shot. 0.91

01:04:44.160 I mean, like and they, you know, they say he's a fascist.

01:04:48.520 His assassin had a fascist catch on it.

01:04:51.100 And then, uh, Joe Bell and stuff other from the Italian, uh, anti-fascista movement, uh, against Mussolini, um, they seem to just, uh, and it's not just trans ideology.

01:05:04.280 This is, uh, just the modern left.

01:05:07.840 Everyone over there who's, uh, you know, beyond the most milquetoast possible conservative or Republican is a fascist.

01:05:17.600 They just see a wall of fascism.

01:05:19.720 and they make no distinction um charlie kirk was most certainly not a fascist

01:05:28.180 but what i think they do they risk doing is radicalizing people because they this person

01:05:36.420 killed a very effective but extremely moderate and reasonable man yeah and demonstrated that

01:05:49.020 a moderate reasonable man fighting with words and words alone is not only just not going to be

01:05:56.200 allowed they're going to be killed for it and i i think that's gonna runs a very real risk then of

01:06:02.900 radicalizing people saying what charlie kirk did didn't work we're gonna have to give them a taste

01:06:09.620 of their own medicine and then you get into retaliation cycles of violence and you saw even

01:06:16.800 the genuine far right the you know everyone's called far right by these guys i'm talking the

01:06:21.720 actual far right even they were like no don't retaliate don't do anything even those guys

01:06:27.960 to their credit were like off anyone does that like we denounce you etc um me i hope i hope that

01:06:36.540 works but america's a big place with a lot of guns um but i i think what this by labeling everyone a

01:06:44.060 fascist and then murdering people who were genuinely not it risks creating genuine fascists

01:06:51.840 and that's very possible and to me it's a curious choice of of words of fascist what does it even

01:06:58.020 mean well let's just say let's just say extremist because fascist means not to mean they're the

01:07:04.760 fascists are total totalitarian you must think this way they're part of that system of government

01:07:09.560 like you can't you know freedom of thought in a fascist in a fascist society only the leader

01:07:14.420 everybody believes the same in the leader well that but so is that a feature more of the political

01:07:19.960 right encounter or more a feature of the political left you must think this you must speak this way

01:07:25.320 well to me it's more of the left that you have to think well totalitarianism and authoritarian

01:07:30.100 authoritarianism can manifest themselves of both the extreme left and the extreme right yeah the

01:07:34.880 problem is it manifests itself perhaps that there is a extreme right in canada states but it's

01:07:42.380 extremely small the extreme left is also relatively small but it's tolerated by the broad moderate

01:07:49.280 center it's tolerated by the center left and the moderates it's not tolerated by the center right

01:07:54.260 moderates on that side i think that's the difference they're they're they're small

01:07:58.300 extremes on both sides but the moderates on one side are willing to at least turn a blind eye

01:08:02.620 yeah well in in this did it and i mean the shooting of charlie kirk is tragic and the

01:08:11.720 so that's the tragedy of the individual like of what's happened to him and then the uh but there's

01:08:18.600 also in what we'll see what the future holds because the real threat the there may be a greater

01:08:25.100 tragedy in how it's responded to by people that are considered leaders in that the people that

01:08:32.860 are celebrating his death and if no one was celebrating his death then things would calm

01:08:38.960 down is that's my take on how it would work but that's not happening but that's not happening

01:08:44.260 currently and it's like well that's so it's more likely to raise the temperature than lower it

01:08:49.680 but that raising the temperature i mean and to me that means then they would drive more people

01:08:55.460 people who are currently moderates to the side they don't want i'm like i don't see the logic

01:09:01.000 unless you're looking to hate more people that's the only logical piece of that yeah i mean if

01:09:06.860 i mean okay putting myself in their shoes i'm a radical leftist of some variety and i think

01:09:16.180 that assassination or terrorism

01:09:18.080 or violence of some kind is justified.

01:09:21.020 If you've taken that as a starting point,

01:09:23.580 Charlie Kirk seems like a really bad target.

01:09:26.140 That does not seem like the smart target to go for.

01:09:29.100 You would pick up someone under genuine far right

01:09:31.780 or someone holding power.

01:09:33.140 They have tried to kill,

01:09:34.400 or people have tried to kill Trump twice now

01:09:36.940 and failed, twice that we know of.

01:09:39.920 Charlie Kirk seems to be like the worst possible target.

01:09:43.040 all they've done is probably radicalize

01:09:45.480 a lot more people and create a martyr

01:09:47.360 so

01:09:48.520 alright well

01:09:50.700 I really appreciate your time

01:09:53.020 coming in today making your way from Red Deer

01:09:55.120 so we can speak in person I've enjoyed this

01:09:57.340 I think it's been

01:09:58.600 a very interesting and enlightening conversation

01:10:01.100 and hopefully we can talk again

01:10:03.240 in the future yes I'd like that Derek

01:10:04.820 thank you much

01:10:05.460 alright that's Sheila

01:10:08.600 but also not going to hurt you

01:10:10.240 Carlos Scott Cunningham. Thank you very much for joining us today. Remember, the Western Standard relies on memberships from people like you to support our work. Please go to westernstandard.news right now and click on subscribe. It's only $10 a month or $100 a year for full access to all Western Standard content and support the work that we're doing here. Thank you very much for joining us today and God bless.

01:10:40.240 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - September 16, 2025

Conversation on trans ideologies, free speech and Charlie Kirk

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