Dr. Dean Voss of the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre joins me to talk about the EMS crisis in Alberta and how the government is trying to fix it, and why it s a good thing. I also talk about some of the things that are getting me wound up about the election.
00:00:30.520Good day. Welcome to the Corey Morgan Show. As again, I am Corey Morgan and this is my weekly production here with the Western Standard. We cover political issues, social issues, just whatever's kind of hitting the news or whatever's getting under a burn in my saddle at any given time and I get it out of my system. We also have interesting guests, news updates and all that good stuff. This show is running live when we record it anyways. And I know some of you are picking up it in a recorded setting.
00:00:59.840As well. So by all means, if you're watching the live version, guys, throw those comments in there. I appreciate them. I see them all. I won't necessarily read them all out, but I do like seeing them. And hey, feel free to chat with each other on things as well. Just, I know it's easier said than done sometimes, guys, but let's keep it civil there.
00:01:18.240So good to see you checking in there, Paradoxie Night Shift and somebody talking about my haircut and no tie. Yes, I got out of wearing a tie around here. The haircut, I don't know. I'm a little mixed on it, but you know, I've never been much of a fashion maven. I'm too hung up on the issues.
00:01:32.020So in a little while, I'm going to have my guest for today is Dr. Dean Voss of the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Center. I've really been looking forward to this. I've covered addiction issues, treatment issues a lot over the last few years.
00:01:44.620You know, I've had a direct experience in some ways. I am a recovering alcoholic. I've always been open about that. It doesn't make me an expert in these issues, but it does make me understand and certainly empathize when you've got something that's taking you in a direction you don't really want to go, a self-destructive sort of path.
00:02:01.460And how I understand how important it is to have support and help to get yourself out of that. So talking to somebody who works and specializes in helping people get out of that awful cycle of addiction is going to be something very good to look forward to because we've had that discussion hitting the Alberta election lately.
00:02:18.300Premier Daniel Smith has announced, which he's kind of called a compassionate intervention and possibly examining having compelled treatment or bringing people in to treatment versus I think some of the other options such as jail or other areas.
00:02:32.140Just we've really got to try and get this under grips. So it'll be it'll be a really good conversation.
00:02:37.120So I'm going to stay on that theme a little bit in some of the politics and the Alberta election with one of the things that's got me wound up today.
00:02:43.820So again, it's regarding Daniel Smith. So last weekend, we had some health care statistics quietly released with a little fanfare.
00:02:52.640You know, when they drop it on the weekend, they're not really looking for people to pay much attention to it.
00:02:56.840And today, Legacy Media, of course, has already forgotten those statistics.
00:02:59.940And it's a pity because the dramatic improvement in waiting times for ambulances due to new policies implemented by the UCP should be making headlines right now.
00:03:08.380As recently as last fall, Albertans were dying, literally dying while waiting for ambulance services.
00:03:14.400One of the worst cases was an elderly woman who bled out after a dog attack just minutes away from Calgary's largest hospital.
00:03:21.780She had to wait 40 minutes for an ambulance to arrive.
00:03:24.660We had red alert periods in Calgary and Edmonton where there were no ambulances available at all. It was commonplace.
00:03:29.940Meanwhile, rural ambulances would get pulled into urban centers and then rural firefighters and police officers had to take on paramedic rolls as they desperately tried to transport injured people to hospitals.
00:03:41.480Paramedics and citizens have been raising concerns about this issue for years.
00:03:45.540We've had multiple governments paying lip service to the problem, but none have done really anything aside from tossing more money at the issue.
00:03:51.780And it didn't have much effect until now.
00:03:54.360Daniel Smith raised the EMS crisis as an issue while running for the UCP leadership, and she promised to act upon it when she became premier.
00:04:02.360Well, last December, the Smith government announced changes that were going to be made to improve EMS response times.
00:04:08.300To begin with, vans were going to be equipped and contracted for use in non-emergency transfers of patients.
00:04:13.780Ambulances and trained paramedic teams have been doing that for up to 75 trips a day when they weren't really in need of emergency services, these transports.
00:04:20.900Meanwhile, of course, emergencies are happening.
00:04:22.500The NDP predictably responded with hysterics and accused Smith of wanting to harm patients by using Ubers instead of ambulances.
00:04:29.840In those cases, despite the hyperbole from the NDP, Uber actually is often a more appropriate option than a fully equipped ambulance for a non-emergency patient transfer.
00:04:39.080Smith also vowed to increase physicians, nurses, and other resources for triage in emergency rooms to reduce the time paramedics are stuck doing hallway care because the hospitals weren't admitting the patients being dropped off.
00:04:50.440And we've had at times as many as 20 ambulances piled up outside of hospitals as paramedics can't find hospital staff willing to take the patients.
00:04:58.580NDP health critic David Shepard panned the plan saying,
00:05:01.500I can't see this announcement being anything but an incredible disappointment to Alberta's paramedics and frontline health care workers.
00:05:07.640The UCP government also started to set timelines for emergency rooms to take patients.
00:05:12.520Then again, the NDP accused the government of forcing paramedics to dump and run with patients, which was utterly untrue.
00:05:18.840Hospitals were expected to admit patients from ambulances in less than 40 minutes.
00:06:10.060Lives are going to be saved thanks to the changes made by the UCP to EMS policies.
00:06:14.200We should be shouting this from the rooftops and examining more common-sense approaches to healthcare bottlenecks in the system.
00:06:20.860Unfortunately, partisan loathing of Daniel Smith has rendered the establishment and legacy media outlets incapable of crediting Smith with doing something right.
00:06:29.820The bloated Alberta Health Services bureaucracy has created an inefficient healthcare system incapable of embracing change or innovation in care.
00:06:37.120And in firing the inept board of the health services and forcing common-sense solutions to the problems, Smith's actually managed to bring about quick success with a crisis that hadn't seen improvement in over a decade.
00:06:48.980Now, Smith is taking a strong, no-nonsense approach with taking on the addiction epidemic as well.
00:06:54.620She's surrounding herself with treatment specialists and recovered addicts rather than listening to the usual suspects in the establishment who insist on further enablement policies.
00:07:02.960Enablement policies for addicts have failed and they're failing throughout North America.
00:07:06.260Overdoses are continuing to climb while the number of addicted people keeps growing.
00:07:10.600We need results-based policy rather than aspirational ideological PAP.
00:07:15.260Smith seems to be willing to cut through the BS and impose policies that work rather than pursuing policies that feel good.
00:07:21.740If Smith loses the election due to an establishment that refuses to accept positive changes, the healthcare system and the addicts in need of treatment will all suffer for it.
00:07:30.000If we can't credit a success, we're never going to see more of it.
00:07:34.040And that's what's kind of got me wound up, guys.
00:07:35.640I mean, really, you know, what I'd like to almost see even is have some NDP supporters or just former conservatives who can't stand Premier Smith saying,
00:07:45.340I can't stand her, I still won't vote for her, but hey, she did something right and we need more of that.
00:08:23.820And now we're seeing a quick positive outcome from it.
00:08:27.700Hey, if it had been a failure, you know, you know, we would certainly be hearing a lot about it.
00:08:33.060All I want to see is results-based policies.
00:08:37.200I honestly will vote for who will get me results.
00:08:41.020If Smith's policies fail, I wouldn't vote for Smith.
00:08:43.740If Rachel Notley, I'm not an NDP fan, but if she's putting forth policies that work on things like that, health care or addiction and saving lives, that's the sort of thing that's going to win my vote.
00:08:54.300We just don't seem to allow ourselves to give credit to somebody else when they get something right.
00:09:45.360Now we've got this medical assistance in dying, is what we call it, MADE.
00:09:50.880And, you know, it's where you're going to have medical intervention that helps somebody pass away if they've, you know, chosen to.
00:09:56.360And I think a lot of people don't have a problem with that, as long as the person is, I guess, terminal in their right mind and makes that decision, you know, personal decision that that may be, that possibly that's something they can offer.
00:10:10.460But it's already getting far and beyond, I think, what anybody reasonable would expect of it.
00:10:15.520I mean, we were talking about using medical assistance in death for people with nothing aside from a mental health issue.
00:10:30.760And when I spoke with that lawyer who talked to us, he says, yes, you know, when he was out there with Sven Robinson and talking about Sue Rodriguez, who had a terminal physiological problem going on, a painful one, a debilitating one.
00:11:15.840So I'm not talking about throwing out the whole medical assistance dying.
00:11:19.540I'm just saying we've got to be careful with it.
00:11:20.800Now, this poll, getting back to it, this is from a research company poll.
00:11:24.060One third of Canadians, apparently, are fine with prescribing assisted suicide for no other reason than the fact that the patient is poor or homeless.
00:11:37.380I mean, so is that where we've come to when you see it's so hopeless because somebody's poor or homeless that we're just better off just to let them end it all rather than try to pursue recovery and bring them back up on their feet and get them rolling?
00:11:49.980One third of Canadians thought that was an acceptable path for people in that condition.
00:12:34.780I'm negative on here a lot, but I try to maintain some degree of positivity.
00:12:38.560I mean, I guess two thirds of Canadians realize that, no, this is not a good idea.
00:12:44.720But I just would have thought that'd be the kind of poll question where, you know, you're talking 5%, 10% maybe, and you're always going to get some people calling for ridiculous things.
00:12:53.700But a third, again, where have we come to where we just rather let people die than try to things get better?
00:13:03.040You know, so I'm looking at some of the comments here, and it'll help bring things up.
00:13:07.200What we're talking about when people think things are beyond hope, they aren't.
00:13:10.360And there's fantastic success stories all over the place.
00:13:44.400They're dying a lot, and they're everybody's kids.
00:13:47.500Don't just think just because you're doing all right that it can't happen to you or it can't happen to your nieces or nephews or your father or uncles.
00:13:55.080This addiction epidemic is getting everybody.
00:13:57.780And I've said it before on this show, and I've been shocked.
00:15:43.340Yeah, thanks for having me and carrying this message.
00:15:49.120I came to Calgary 33 years ago, and I started on the reserves of Saskatchewan and Kamsak and the Coday Reserve and had the highest suicide rate in Canada.
00:16:02.620I went and worked in the States, and I started my doctoral work out of Cincinnati.
00:16:07.240I was living in Vancouver, and I came here 33 years ago, and the research was not good about reaching youth.
00:16:25.800And I didn't know if we could really help these kids because from the academic research and programs to reach these kids, they just weren't available.
00:16:36.320So I spent five years with an incredible doctoral team before we even got out of the chutes developing our model.
00:16:43.820So 33 years later, came to believe, came to know that there's a solution, and we can reach these kids.
00:16:53.960It's just like you said, the most agonizing thing I've ever faced is a parent losing their child.
00:17:00.620And that includes, like, from the Coday Reserve.
00:17:04.760Today, Coday Reserve has the highest HIV rate in Canada.
00:18:39.700But I think what Danielle Smith and Marshall Smith and these guys have done is given us a voice to share our message that there is a solution for these kids.
00:19:15.420I mean, treatment for somebody when they're heavily addicted can take, I believe, three to eight months, typically, with what you guys offer.
00:19:23.340And sometimes the results you're looking at over 50% will stay clean.
00:19:27.420But some people say, well, boy, then half aren't making it.
00:19:30.280But, I mean, it's far, far better than people who don't get treatment at all.
00:19:33.440And that's what people have to understand, that if left alone, the outlook for a person who's heavily into addiction is not good.
00:19:41.960Well, I think what's the success rate of these kids in 1989-90 was very, very low.
00:19:50.440In fact, we know from our research, I had to go outside of the province to go to the Treatment Resorts Institute, for instance, with Dr. Winters and Dr. Area to validate academically our program.
00:20:05.260Like you talked earlier about results.
00:20:22.680So, with our research, I've had to validate ARC, fight this in our own community and province to show academically that the majority of our kids stay clean and sober.
00:20:40.820The other research, there's our research, Dr. Winters, Dr. Area, which is published, that our average length of stay in treatment is 277 days.
00:21:21.860The other part, our research from Patton in 2004 and Winters and Area, three studies say that eight out of ten kids that start the program finish.
00:22:22.480It sounds like they're children and have gone through your program and they really appreciate it.
00:22:26.160And they're using that term compassionate intervention because that seems to be the part that some people are hung up on is you have to intervene.
00:22:32.400Even if the person initially perhaps isn't necessarily willing to go into treatment, they've had the parents intervening on their behalf or other loved ones.
00:23:21.100You start by talking to other people, I guess.
00:23:23.860That's the best referral to me is other parents that have gone through this, that have been shattered, that found hope, put their families back together.
00:24:33.640And that's what's kept us alive over all these years.
00:24:36.340Now the government stepped up, which I think is incredible, to support us in helping intervening with kids and raising the bottom and helping them get help when they don't want help.
00:24:48.440Because they can't see it, they're too sick.
00:24:51.740Yeah, so something that unfortunately has gotten very politicized and, you know, we've really kind of polarized this, unfortunately, rather than just looking at results, is issues of safe supply or harm reduction.
00:25:02.900Like I'm kind of on the fence with some of that.
00:25:04.800I mean, if an addict is dead, well, we can't help them.
00:25:07.300So if we could, you know, keep them from dying on the street and hopefully get them into treatment soon, there's a role for harm reduction.
00:25:14.540But some people seem to see harm reduction as if it's an end or that you can facilitate an ongoing addiction and it can be functional.
00:25:20.220And I think that's where the trouble starts beginning.
00:28:30.100But you sent me some fantastic studies and statistics and documents.
00:28:34.300Where can they find those online and where can they find your organization if they want to donate or if perhaps they need help or anything like that?
00:28:39.620Just look up Alberta Adolescent Recovery Center.
00:28:45.040I think that's very important, Corey, is the research of validating that this program, after 30 years, is showing pragmatic, real results.
00:28:57.740But that just allows me to go in there today, which we're doing, to carry the message and save kids.
00:29:03.700When we get people behind us, and I've never seen this in 30 years, what Danielle and the UCP are doing.
00:29:11.300And hopefully, NDP, Notley, that can see that we have valid results academically, but most important is the families.
00:29:20.760If we did an economic study of all those kids that are out in the community, working, going to school, 30 years, it's a huge investment in our youth.
00:29:29.620But I want to just clarify, and I get going on this, but saving a life, there's nothing better, but this is tough, hard business.
00:30:43.660I mean, it's like nurses in any other medical ward or doctors or health professionals.
00:30:48.860I mean, you have to be so strong to deal with when things don't go the way you want and still get up in the morning and get in there and keep working on it.
00:31:23.340And that's what with a lot of recovery groups and organizations, you know, it starts to become anecdotal.
00:31:30.540And sometimes you see the academics poo-pooing that or pushing it aside.
00:31:33.400But, no, there's a reason you see things like, again, yes, I'm a member of Bill W.'s group.
00:31:39.960We're talking about groups where you can get together with other people who have suffered through the addiction you have because that's how you can lend support to each other.
00:31:46.780Because somebody who hasn't endured that, while they might mean the absolute best and might have all sorts of things they can help, you can't beat having somebody who's directly known how to deal with that.
00:32:03.220It's just such a, there's no cookie-cutter approach.
00:32:06.100And you need as many all-hands-on-deck.
00:32:09.840And Karen Mitchell's saying rehabilitation's better than jail or the grave.
00:32:12.900And that's some of the stuff I wrote about before because people talk about, when they're talking about intervention, whether it's adults or whether it's children,
00:32:18.900see, we've got to maintain the dignity of folks in addiction and we can't infringe on their liberty.
00:32:25.000Well, when they've hit the streets, when it's gotten that bad, that bad, that far along, are they really at liberty anymore?
00:32:32.940No, they're a slave to their addiction.
00:32:42.320Unfortunately, as Karen pointed out, if there's not an intervention or treatment or something once it's hit that point, chances are they probably will end up either dead or in jail or in hospital.
00:33:16.240And that's facilitating, enabling, or sitting back and just letting it happen because that's kind of what some people think is going to work.
00:33:23.220Kathy Terpstra, my 15-year-old daughter was in the depths of heavy drug use.
00:51:57.400He's more socially conservative than my tastes land.
00:52:00.480But what I'm impressed with is his message isn't about his views and social conservatism.
00:52:06.160It's just saying, get off your butt, use the process, get out there and do it.
00:52:09.600He's not asking about anything secretive or untoward.
00:52:13.420And that's what's got them scared, though.
00:52:15.820You see, the establishment thrives on our apathy.
00:52:18.400It makes it by us, due to us sitting on our butts, due to us being indifferent, due to us not getting out there and taking part in the parties or taking part in things like scrutineering during an election.
00:52:30.580So, I mean, when Parker says, hey, get out there and take part in the nominations, get out there and take part in the electing the board of your party or your school board or things like that.
00:52:59.700No, scrutineers are an integral part of the democratic process.
00:53:04.520Okay, well, there'll be lots more coming, guys, and lots more coverage.
00:53:07.820By the way, there's going to be coverage of the debate starting tomorrow at the Western Standard at 540 for those of you guys watching live.
00:53:15.100It's going to be special coverage covering all of that.