Western Standard

00:00:00.000 Good

00:00:29.800 day. Welcome to the Corey Morgan show. Getting into the dog days of summer, mid-July now.

00:00:34.800 The stampede's out of the way. I don't have my excuse to wear jeans to work anymore,

00:00:38.740 so I just have my usual poor wardrobe. Eventually, we'll get a wardrobe department and I can

00:00:43.540 be dressed better, but until then, blame the frugal ways of the Western Standard for not

00:00:50.040 buying me a new sport coat. All right, lost the cover, though. We're looking forward to

00:00:53.840 it. I got a guest coming on, Tim Hagstrom. You've probably seen some of those stories

00:00:57.160 going on. He was, to say the least, roughly treated by the University of Saskatchewan for

00:01:02.080 daring to just try to question some of the policies of DEI and other exceptions made,

00:01:09.680 you know, I guess for exam lengths and things like that with students. He'll explain that,

00:01:13.520 and now he's bringing a suit against the University of Saskatchewan. It's good to see people

00:01:17.400 not backing off in light of those sorts of things. I'll be checking in with Jen in a few minutes here

00:01:23.460 to get the latest on the news. And yes, I'll be talking. There's a lot of justice things going

00:01:29.180 on today, I guess you could say. So, good to see you guys checking in there. Gord Tulk,

00:01:34.860 North Run Grader and Paradoxy. Gord saying, terminal? Really? Gord, it's social media,

00:01:40.980 their headlines, and yes, they are eye-catchers. And actually, I'm going to start, though, I mean,

00:01:45.040 I appreciate the questions on what's got me wound up and why I feel that our justice system is terminal

00:01:52.720 and broken. This is something that's been making the news recently. So, on July 29th, 2023,

00:02:00.660 and I'm only going to pronounce his first name once, Rukanisha, and they call him Nakunda,

00:02:05.900 but he was stabbed to death by a random stranger when he tried to ride the LRT in Edmonton. He was

00:02:12.180 54 years old. He's left seven children behind. Ironically, he'd escaped the violent, impoverished

00:02:18.520 world of Congo, only to be murdered due to Canada's pathetic justice system. Jamal Wheeler killed Nakunda 0.90

00:02:25.840 in cold blood. He didn't know his victim, and he wasn't provoked by his victim. Wheeler has a thing

00:02:31.620 for trying to kill people at LRT stations. Yeah, he's been doing this for years. He'd been convicted 0.82

00:02:36.320 with attacking people with pepper spray at one station. He'd been convicted for pushing a person

00:02:40.440 onto the train tracks at another station after he beat on him. And he'd been convicted of attacking

00:02:44.640 people with an axe at a station. What do we do? We kept letting him out. Limp-wristed sentencing 0.97

00:02:50.940 ensured Wheeler was released repeatedly until he finally managed to kill a man. Now, Wheeler has

00:02:57.440 reached the apex of his criminal career so far. He's stolen the life from an innocent man. So,

00:03:03.240 what was his sentence? Well, he's going to be free in four and a half years to kill somebody else, 0.78

00:03:07.240 folks. Rest assured, he won't be reformed, and another innocent person or people will pay the

00:03:12.040 ultimate price for this. Anybody who's followed court proceedings for violent, chronic offenders

00:03:16.740 knows the usual lines of defense. He was Métis and suffered due to colonialism. He was an addict. He 0.99

00:03:22.600 had a rough upbringing, blah, blah, blah. You know what? I couldn't care less. When it gets to

00:03:29.560 sentencing for criminals, the only thing that should be taken into consideration is public safety.

00:03:34.200 How the criminal got there in the first place is irrelevant. Wheeler is clearly so dangerous he

00:03:39.020 should never be free again. Yet he will be, and he will re-offend. I do understand. We must study

00:03:44.800 what creates violent repeat offenders. It's important to learn so we might hopefully prevent

00:03:49.520 some violent crimes rather than react to them. Once a person has become a habitual offender,

00:03:53.900 though, and we've identified them, it's time to write them off from society. Reforming criminals must 1.00

00:03:58.640 be the priority with new offenders. The best outcome we can all see is that a person has gone off

00:04:03.460 the rails but used their time incarcerated to better themselves and become a functional citizen upon

00:04:07.760 release. We should provide the resources to assist with that rehabilitation in that case, and the

00:04:13.160 investment will often be well worth it. But when the efforts for reform fail, and the offender becomes

00:04:18.500 chronic, then it's time to accept reality and remove them from the public, possibly indefinitely.

00:04:24.120 The success rate in reforming chronic offenders is terribly low, and once the criminals reach that

00:04:28.320 status, the safety and rights of the public must come before those of the offender. It's not just

00:04:33.100 chronic violent criminals who must be incarcerated for long term to repeat offenders from thieves to

00:04:37.220 drug dealers need to be removed as well. The cost and societal damage from career criminals can't be

00:04:42.880 understated, even if they are directly violent. They cause mistrust, stress, and damage. They've also

00:04:48.420 put the public at risk as they take up law enforcement resources as they're constantly arrested and

00:04:52.600 released. Study after study indicates the vast majority of crimes are committed by a minority of

00:04:58.120 chronic offenders. It stands to reason if we can keep that minority locked up, they can't 1.00

00:05:02.800 re-offend. How many times do we get a read about some burglar or car thief that's convicted for

00:05:06.860 their 30th, 50th, or 100th offense? Never mind the multiple murderers out there. The cost to

00:05:12.360 incarcerate, hey, it doesn't have to be that high when it's accepted that that inmate's never going

00:05:15.600 to be released. Resources then don't need to be wasted on rehabilitation if facilities can be

00:05:20.540 constructed in isolated regions to inexpensively prevent escapes. Call it gulags, if you will.

00:05:26.800 The criminals had a choice. Their victims didn't. And no, I don't support capital punishment. I still

00:05:32.140 don't. I don't trust our legal system or government enough to give it the power to kill a citizen.

00:05:35.340 I do support hundred-year sentences, though. The concept of locking up a human forever is a hard

00:05:40.460 one to accept. I can accept that, though, more than watching people being victimized and often

00:05:45.500 killed by criminals we already had in custody and then released. Hey, if a magic pill is invented which

00:05:51.180 cures a chronic criminal, then we can reconsider their interminable incarceration. Until then,

00:05:55.920 though, it's time to warehouse them once we've identified them somewhere secure for the sake

00:06:00.280 of public safety. Rest assured, it'll have a much more positive impact upon crime and crime reduction

00:06:06.440 than chasing people around to seize their antiquated duck hunting guns. When Canada has become more

00:06:11.880 unsafe than the Congo, we know it's time for a reality check. And yes, Gord, that's why I say it's 0.96

00:06:18.600 terminally broken. When we got a guy like that who's been in custody and released him and let him kill

00:06:23.080 somebody and we're going to let him out to kill somebody else in four and a half years, the system's 0.78

00:06:27.400 terminal. All right, that's my rant to get things off on a good note. How's it going, Jen? I'm doing

00:06:33.080 good. Thanks, Corey. How you doing? Good. This is the Western Standard's Jen Hodson, a reporter

00:06:36.840 extraordinaire to give the news update because Steve's indisposed yet again. Yet again. Yeah, that's

00:06:43.160 right. I've been under the weather for the last couple of weeks, unfortunately. Yeah, there's been a

00:06:47.240 bad bug going around. Bad bug going around. Yeah, that's right. So, Prime Minister Mark Carney opened the

00:06:52.280 day with an announcement on steel. And rather than going elbows up, quote unquote, I guess President

00:06:59.320 Trump instead, there will be no changes to current trade measures. However, Ottawa will be funneling in

00:07:06.520 more than a billion into the steel industry on taxpayers dime. Yes, so that'll be a billion towards

00:07:14.920 helping the steel industry, helping steel firms. And then another 70 million is going towards

00:07:22.200 worker compensation and those that are affected by the tariffs. Well, bailouts always work well. I

00:07:27.080 mean, look how well the cricket industry has developed in Ontario or the battery manufacturing

00:07:31.080 plants. I mean, that's all blossomed for us, hasn't it? The cricket industry. Yeah, you say true words,

00:07:36.440 Corey. And there are some tariff adjustments on non-US countries. Most notably, the Carney Liberals are

00:07:44.600 cracking down on any country that has their steel poured in China. So they're leveraging tariffs on those

00:07:51.880 countries, I guess, to boost up Canada's tariff war. Well, it's interesting. China does provide a

00:07:58.360 lot of steel to Canada. I mean, fair enough, if you're looking at protectionism, that's one of the

00:08:03.240 targets you want to go. You can see what he's doing though. He's fighting back against China and trying

00:08:07.000 to avoid getting further into a deeper fight with President Trump. Exactly. Where our bigger, well,

00:08:11.480 China's an issue as well. It's a mess. I don't envy Carney. I don't like him, but he's in a tough,

00:08:16.120 tough position. I'll give him that. Yeah. Between China and the US is definitely between

00:08:20.440 a rock and a hard place. So next on the news is we're following the Alberta Next panel quite closely

00:08:28.120 here at the Western Standard. So this is a series of panelists that are hearing from Albertans about

00:08:37.240 how they feel on certain issues, such as whether Alberta should have its own police force, whether

00:08:42.840 Alberta should collect income tax rather than having it sent to Ottawa, and whether any kind of

00:08:50.440 pension plan or taxes should be through the Alberta government rather than the federal government.

00:08:55.720 And of course this is as independent sentiment is on the rise here in Alberta too. So Premier

00:09:02.680 Smith will be up in Edmonton this evening. Yeah. I guess last night's meeting, the open mic got a

00:09:08.360 little hot as you'd kind of expect. I mean, you know, she's going to have an interesting time

00:09:13.320 tempering it from the people who were full out, just wanting independence referendum, want out, or the

00:09:17.640 people who want to talk about and examine some of those other proposals. Yeah. We'll see if maybe

00:09:22.600 they change some of the structuring types meeting and attitude. Yeah, for sure. And there is nuance

00:09:28.360 to this issue. Some people are approaching it all or nothing. We've completely had enough. And as you

00:09:34.120 say, others are willing to hear out other sides and negotiate. So we'll see what this Alberta Next

00:09:39.800 panel produces over the course of the summer and into September even. Yeah, she's going to have her hands 0.99

00:09:44.520 fully out. It goes for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Into the end of September,

00:09:47.880 I believe. The end of September, she'll be coming to Calgary with the Alberta Next panel.

00:09:52.040 Yeah. Ending in, well, we'll have to go to that. Yeah. We'll have to go check that out. Yeah.

00:09:56.280 Western standard field trip. Canada's poverty line is being redefined. So the federal government

00:10:04.040 is looking at how they're actually going to define what it means to be

00:10:09.800 poor or living in poverty in Canada. So we'll find out exactly what their definition is of that

00:10:15.640 by the end of the fall. Oh boy. I mean, I guess it depends on who they put behind it. You know,

00:10:20.440 usually you see that as a precursor when they want to start talking universal basic income.

00:10:24.360 Wow. Yeah. It depends on what you're going to measure it against. I mean,

00:10:26.840 if you're measuring against Eastern Africa, well, our poverty line is going to be quite low.

00:10:32.200 But if we measure it against domestic expectations, it's kind of an arbitrary thing. Nobody's starving

00:10:38.760 or, you know, being thrown in the streets with our social safety net. Where's poverty land?

00:10:43.000 That's right. Well, they could also lower the poverty line to sort of frame it as though there

00:10:48.920 aren't so many Canadians that are struggling and living in poverty. And then make themselves look

00:10:53.800 a little better. Look at that. We've pulled all these people out of poverty, or at least we moved the line.

00:10:58.120 At least we moved the line. Yeah. Yeah. You can keep winning when you move the goalpost for sure.

00:11:02.920 Fair enough, right?

00:11:04.040 Yeah. All right. And as for wildfires, so the feds have finally, for the first time ever,

00:11:11.000 sat down and calculated just how much wildfires cost and released a report saying that it's running up

00:11:18.200 into the billions. And also they established the reasons why they say that there's wildfires rampant,

00:11:24.520 especially in Western Canada. Guess what the first reason is, Corey?

00:11:27.720 Oh, probably that we elected conservatives, but other than that, it'll be climate change.

00:11:31.000 Climate change. Yeah.

00:11:32.360 Yeah. Climate change, precisely. And as well as population growth was mentioned in that as well.

00:11:39.960 So turn this into an immigration discussion if they really want to go there.

00:11:43.000 Yeah. So a bit of a surprising acknowledgement by the feds there. And thirdly, they also conceded

00:11:49.560 forest mismanagement played a role. There is a role for forest management. I'm glad they brought

00:11:56.600 that up at least. I mean, they're having a bit of an honest look at some of it.

00:11:59.240 Yeah, absolutely. It does actually seem like, you know, it wasn't a widely published report,

00:12:03.560 of course. It took some access to information to get that out, of course.

00:12:09.160 Yeah. And they'll cherry pick what portions they want to use later on. 0.97

00:12:12.040 Yeah. No, we're onto them, aren't we? Right on.

00:12:16.200 Yeah. And finally, we're just speaking a bit before I came on about supply management.

00:12:21.880 So there's an interesting poll this week released by Angus Reid that found that Quebec,

00:12:27.960 which isn't really surprising, is the province that most widely supports the supply management

00:12:33.800 system, which has been dubbed the dairy cartel. Basically, it's a, I'm sure you've talked about it

00:12:38.280 a lot on your show. I don't need to go into details with your audience, Corey, but it's a quota system

00:12:44.120 for dairy farmers that results in a distortion of the market. A lot of milk products having to be

00:12:49.560 dumped out, inability to sell to American markets. And it's, it's been widely, widely disputed,

00:12:59.400 especially in Western Canada, especially in Alberta by Alberta farmers. So the poll shows that

00:13:05.480 I think it was about a third, or maybe it was lower, maybe 20, about 24% of Albertans,

00:13:12.440 if I remember correctly, support the supply management and many, many are opposed. A third

00:13:19.160 point of that study was whether you support, you don't support, or if you're okay with it being used

00:13:25.160 as a bargaining chip and a terra for. So at first glance at the study, it shows that Canadians are 1.00

00:13:30.600 widely opposed to it. However, if you look into the details of it, they're a wide, a large percentage

00:13:37.400 are actually willing to concede that it's not a crucial part of our economy.

00:13:43.160 Yeah, no, it's an interesting one. And, but I mean, the overall headline I see they've been

00:13:47.000 throwing out is that most Canadians support it. And that's the case you wonder, well, okay,

00:13:50.120 who can sign the poll? That's what you got to look into folks. Cause some people say, well, it's Angus

00:13:53.720 Reid. No, that's who did the poll, who paid the bill. And then when you look at the framing of

00:13:58.760 the questions, but that's a whole separate discussion. Yeah, absolutely. And who was

00:14:01.960 polled, which in this case was the Angus Reid forum. And you have to ask, well, who is nudged

00:14:06.440 into signing up for the Angus Reid forum? That too. But it's interesting, at least it's come into the

00:14:11.000 discussion because most people, I think that's part of the problem is most people don't even realize

00:14:14.200 the system was there or what it does, but they are under threat now due to the trade.

00:14:18.840 And if they have heard of it, a lot of people just heard of it through framing from the federal

00:14:22.920 government, right? Is this safety net and this protectionism for farmers. And don't you want to

00:14:27.720 save the farmers, right? When there's a whole other side, it's very nuanced issue as well.

00:14:32.360 Absolutely. All right. Well, thanks for that update. You said there wasn't much news going on.

00:14:36.040 Yeah, I guess there's always something to talk about, eh?

00:14:38.280 Right on. Okay. Well, thank you again. I'll let you get back into that newsroom to

00:14:41.880 dig out some more stories on this apparently slow news day.

00:14:44.440 Yeah, right. My pleasure. Thank you, Corey.

00:14:47.000 Thank you. So that is our Jen Hartson. Yeah, as we said, very prolific, lots of stories,

00:14:52.360 lots of stuff coming up out there. That's where I like to remind you folks, we are an

00:14:56.440 independent media outlet. That means we don't take tax dollars. The reason we can pay Jen and me and

00:15:02.280 John over there and the rest of us is because of subscribers. So if you've already subscribed,

00:15:06.920 thank you very much. But if you haven't get on there guys, westernstandard.news slash subscription,

00:15:12.200 10 bucks a month, just like an old newspaper subscription, keeps things rolling for us,

00:15:15.880 keeps us independent, keeps us accountable to you. It's a hundred dollars for a year. Take advantage of that

00:15:21.320 volume discount for it. And then we can keep providing these stories that the other outlets

00:15:27.480 just don't want to cover and touch. This is the future of media is independent media. Yeah. You

00:15:33.960 know, that supply management thing, the funny thing is, I mean, I'll just throw a point out before I

00:15:37.640 move on to my guest with this, you know, when they, they love claiming all these things, a couple for

00:15:42.040 one, they say it's saving the family farm. Well, I put that out in a recent column. No, actually in the

00:15:46.680 70s, we had like 140,000 dairy farms in Canada. Now we have less than 10,000. So if supply management

00:15:53.160 was supposed to save the family farm, it's done a terrible job. By the way, uh, Gord Tulk did some

00:15:58.280 good work on this. I'm going to talk about that a little later. Um, as well, the other aspects I'm

00:16:04.680 seeing that they're saying we have to stop it to, you know, keep the supply management to stop the big,

00:16:10.280 bad American products coming up because they're terrible, terrible dairy and milk products,

00:16:14.120 and they're awful and their quality is terrible. Really? Well, and again, if that's the case,

00:16:18.600 you don't need to be protected. Do you? Do you not trust Canadian shoppers to pick the better butter?

00:16:23.080 Ah, it stinks. All right, let's move on and get to my, my guest here. And, uh, it's Tim Hagstrom.

00:16:31.320 He's had rough treatment, as I said, kind of at the start of the show from the University of, uh,

00:16:36.760 Saskatchewan or is it Saskatoon? The University of Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan.

00:16:40.440 Okay. Okay. I should know these things as a Westerner, but I appreciate it. You, you haven't

00:16:46.120 taken it lying down and you're taking the fight back to the university. Uh, I guess we'll just

00:16:51.160 kind of start though. What happened? Who's over there? You're a law student. Uh, there were some

00:16:55.640 policies you wanted to question and what went from there? Well, thank you for having me on, uh,

00:16:59.800 Corey. And I'm sorry, I didn't get the memo, uh, but not rank genes in your office.

00:17:03.640 Oh, well, you can't see that from there. You never mentioned that. I mean, I've done

00:17:06.280 some shows with no pants, but they don't need to know that over there. 1.00

00:17:10.040 We'll leave it at that. Uh, so, uh, yes, I, um, this started when I was in the third year of law

00:17:15.720 school in my winter semester in 2022. And I'd just come back from an exchange in Ottawa in the fall

00:17:23.240 and, uh, learned that there was a point of great contention, uh, among my classmates, uh,

00:17:28.520 which had to do with an exam accommodation policy, uh, because there is one policy among others for

00:17:35.000 law students at the university of Saskatchewan that is only available to students who self-declare

00:17:40.040 as indigenous. Um, I want to be clear about this. I never took a view on that policy. Uh, but what

00:17:46.600 really concerned me at the time, uh, once I talked to a number of students who are really riled up about

00:17:51.800 this is I saw students forming into two different factions and people from opposite factions were

00:17:58.440 adopting these attitudes that I thought were quite corrosive. They didn't want to talk to each

00:18:02.440 other. They didn't see, um, you know, the highest that could be said or didn't want to see that in,

00:18:08.760 in the other side. Uh, so that's what I spoke out about. Uh, I, I read out a letter that I'd written,

00:18:14.920 uh, to my classmates. You can find it online. Um, and, uh, I got punished for that.

00:18:22.360 Yeah. And, and it, I mean, it's indicative of a bigger trend. You, you, you, you looked at things

00:18:27.000 from that traditional view. It's the institution of higher learning. It's an area where there's

00:18:30.360 supposed to be discourse. Or if we want to go back to the ancient Greeks, you know,

00:18:33.400 you're supposed to be philosophizing and sharing different notions, even if you differ. And that

00:18:38.440 concept is really quite lost for most post-secondary institutions. Now it seems it's a bad group think

00:18:43.800 approach. Well, that that's exactly what I'm finding fighting to defend. And I really believe in that.

00:18:49.400 So the case we have now, uh, at the, uh, Saskatchewan court of King's bench is quite interesting

00:18:55.480 because we've got two expert reports now, uh, to explain concepts that are going to be

00:19:01.240 important in this litigation. Uh, so one expert report is on the recognized principles of academic

00:19:06.520 freedom because the university of Saskatchewan act, which gives the university its powers requires

00:19:12.040 that the Senate, the board and the council do things having regard to the recognized principles

00:19:17.000 of academic freedom. And this expert report paints a picture of what I believe in, which is a community

00:19:23.000 of scholars and students who are openly and sincerely discussing things, uh, where the moral and

00:19:29.560 intellectual autonomy of every individual is prized. And to my mind, this is the only way that a

00:19:35.480 university can fulfill its promise to society, which is to discover knowledge and transmit it and not get

00:19:43.480 stuck in attitudes that prevent people from looking for their blind spots.

00:19:48.120 Yeah. So, and I mean, it didn't just end with, with some hostile times and in the end, I mean,

00:19:53.080 you've completed your, your, your university and such, but you got sanctioned essentially. I mean,

00:19:57.880 there were consequences they laid upon you for this.

00:20:00.120 Yes. So what happened is I, I read this letter, uh, towards the end of third year. And then as I was

00:20:06.040 just finishing up exams, I received a notice of a complaint that another student had made. Uh, I thought it

00:20:11.640 would be dismissed and it wasn't. Uh, then I thought we could try a mediated conversation to resolve what I

00:20:17.080 felt must be a misunderstanding that didn't happen. Uh, instead I was found guilty of having committed

00:20:22.360 harassment by reading this letter. Uh, we tried an appeal at the university and they upheld that

00:20:28.440 decision. So now there's a sanction, uh, there's a reprimand on my file. I don't know if it's been

00:20:33.880 written yet. I'd be interested to read it. And, uh, they ordered that I write an apology letter that

00:20:40.680 acknowledged that what I said caused harm. And this would amount to, uh, denouncing my own beliefs.

00:20:47.240 I'm not willing to do that. No. And, and, and that's where it starts smacking. I don't want

00:20:53.720 to draw too many close analogies, but you know, of the old oppressive regimes where they would reeducate.

00:20:59.720 And if a person still has, has been found guilty of, of stepping outside of the line, yes,

00:21:03.960 forced apologies, forced retractions. And that's not healthy. I mean, unless it's genuine anyways,

00:21:12.280 whether you're right or wrong, forcing apologies is, is, is not beneficial.

00:21:16.760 Well, I agreed with that. And it's interesting when I made submissions to that, uh, this hearing

00:21:21.880 board who decided the sanction, I looked at their policy and it says they can request an apology.

00:21:26.520 It doesn't say they can require one. And I told them, if you request an apology from me,

00:21:30.920 it will have no practical effect. You should choose something else, uh, because I can't issue that

00:21:35.640 apology. So kind of getting back to what you questioned. I mean, I know part of it is questioning

00:21:40.600 just the whole process and not allowing you to discuss this, but I mean, just so people know what

00:21:44.360 was underlying with this is that there's a different length of time that self-identified

00:21:49.160 indigenous students may have to write exams as opposed to other students, which I, I guess,

00:21:56.600 you know, it could be debatable on whether, uh, indigenous students just need that extra time

00:22:02.680 and it'll be beneficial, or it is an unfair racially based, uh, uh, change of, of requirements for

00:22:10.360 different students. I mean, these are the things we should have then discussed if we're going to have

00:22:13.480 it, but the bottom line is what you're told is you don't even talk about it.

00:22:17.400 That's exactly it. And that policy has been around for a long time at the college.

00:22:22.520 They're wanting to do something about underrepresentation, uh, for indigenous people

00:22:26.440 in the legal profession and at the college of law. And I think reasonable people can come

00:22:31.160 at that, uh, from different angles, including the one that the college has settled on.

00:22:36.040 But what's really an issue in this case is this broader point of our students even allowed to discuss

00:22:41.080 this. And I think it's important that we're in this litigation, uh, wanting to be very precise

00:22:47.960 about what's an issue. Uh, so we've uncovered a number of policy documents at the university,

00:22:54.680 uh, that actually had a bearing in this case, even though that wasn't quite clear as I was going

00:22:59.320 through the proceedings. And we've brought this second expert report to help explain that. Um, so what

00:23:05.640 we're hoping to persuade the court is that, uh, the university has taken a specific intellectual,

00:23:12.760 or sorry, an institutional commitment starting in about 2020, the summer of 2020. I don't know if

00:23:18.680 you remember, that was a summer of racial reckoning, particularly. And when it says, I don't know more

00:23:23.560 was exploding and, and, uh, well, no, that was after Idle and War. That was the, the, the, uh,

00:23:28.440 summer Kamloops to Floyd. And yes, there was a long loop in Canada. Um, and so what the university did

00:23:35.960 was, uh, they committed to doing more about racism and how they did this is that they, uh,

00:23:41.720 appointed an individual to be a special advisor on anti-racism, uh, to establish a committee which

00:23:48.040 had very vast powers at the university. And this person happened to be a post-colonial scholar,

00:23:54.040 which is a very, uh, interesting, uh, worldview. I don't believe in it at all. Um, but I do respect

00:24:00.440 people's moral and intellectual autonomy. So I respect that people can have that worldview of

00:24:05.880 post-colonial, uh, studies, but what happens once the university takes that on as an institutional

00:24:11.160 commitment? Uh, that's, what's issue at issue in this litigation. Um, so what our expert explains

00:24:17.000 is that in this worldview of post-colonial studies, um, there's a certain degree of moral relativism.

00:24:23.560 Uh, they don't completely believe in objective truth. So that's somewhere where I disagree. Um,

00:24:29.800 and the way it manifests specifically is that, uh, claims made by indigenous people are thought to be

00:24:36.920 on a higher level. Um, in some instances, they're not to be questioned at all.

00:24:41.640 And, uh, the other sort of precept of this worldview is that every equality of, sorry,

00:24:48.680 every inequality of outcome between indigenous and non-indigenous people must have been caused by 0.89

00:24:54.600 some sort of moral depravity, uh, that they tend to call, uh, white supremacy or, or other words like

00:25:00.760 this. Um, what happens when you think that every unequal, unequal outcome, uh, must be caused by some

00:25:07.720 sort of moral depravity?

00:25:09.000 The thing is always somebody else's fault. It's not a healthy mindset to take on for oneself for personal

00:25:14.520 growth. Uh, you can, you can face injustice and it, and things are unfair and can happen to people.

00:25:20.120 But when it's really ingrained like that, I mean, it's, it's a questionable approach to give to people.

00:25:25.560 Well, what it does is it shut down, shuts down speech. And that's what we've seen here. Um,

00:25:30.840 the hearing board, I think read this case as, first of all, there's this debate that was going on

00:25:37.640 about this policy dealing with extra time on exams. And for the hearing board, there is no debate.

00:25:44.920 Of course that policy is necessary because if there are unequal outcomes in terms of indigenous

00:25:49.640 people being represented in the legal profession and so on, it must be caused by white supremacy.

00:25:54.680 There's no defending the outcome. And so there's no critiquing a measure that's meant to level that

00:25:59.880 playing field.

00:26:00.600 And that unfortunately prevents people from seeking solutions, assuming there are things outside of

00:26:06.120 uh, you know, white, uh, nationalism, supremacy, that's been holding it down. I, I, I mean,

00:26:11.240 I was kind of talking about that a bit before the show, I've been visiting reserves and sharing video

00:26:15.000 and things. I mean, there's just some socioeconomic challenges that are happening on reserves and in

00:26:20.440 the system. And we can go far enough back as to how it ended up here where it is now, but those are

00:26:25.480 going to hinder people making it to a higher level of post-secondary education. Like there's some

00:26:29.480 solutions we need to go into much deeper than just constantly pointing the finger at colonialism and

00:26:33.960 white supremacy.

00:26:34.920 Well, that's exactly right. And I just go back to the point I made earlier that this vision I have of

00:26:39.960 academic freedom to me is the way for universities to fulfill the promise to Canadian society.

00:26:46.360 Um, but one of our experts actually makes this point. It hadn't occurred to me before, but it's quite

00:26:51.320 interesting. Um, if the goal is to have more indigenous people in a university, in a genuine university

00:26:58.280 experience, you can't turn the university into something that isn't a university because they're not

00:27:04.040 getting that experience. Um, so I'm, I'm here to preserve that experience and I hope everybody gets

00:27:09.640 access to it, but it's gotta still be a university.

00:27:12.280 Well, yeah. And it becomes unfair. I worry about that as somebody who will

00:27:17.000 rely on professionals and on a number of levels through life of whether it's doctors, lawyers,

00:27:22.360 and such, and you want to pick who you feel is going to be the best person to do that job.

00:27:26.600 And there's that unfairness that starts to come with a double standard going towards certain

00:27:31.320 groups and minorities. Whereas even unconsciously, I might start ruling out other individuals because,

00:27:36.600 well, maybe that person went through it without having the proper program and training that I

00:27:40.840 expect in a university. And it actually puts who could be some very fantastic lawyers, doctors,

00:27:46.520 engineers at a disadvantage because people look out of the corner, well, was it DEI or were they really

00:27:53.320 get to that position on merit? It's just not doing favors to the indigenous community.

00:27:57.960 Well, certainly those are, uh, positions that reasonable people can take to critique these policies.

00:28:03.480 I think I understand where the college is coming from as well. They want to do something. And, um,

00:28:08.680 are you going to have some very, uh, invasive, uh, you know, detailed application from every single

00:28:15.640 person to find out who needs how much accommodation? Um, they decided not to do it that way. So, you know,

00:28:22.520 you can argue it both ways, but, uh, what, where the university, I think really stepped over a line

00:28:28.920 here is all of this blood into, uh, disciplinary proceedings. They were actually willing to use

00:28:35.480 in our submissions in court. Uh, we say they were willing to use, uh, the non-academic misconduct

00:28:41.240 proceedings to enforce, um, as the appeal board of the university puts it, that they can educate a

00:28:48.440 student that it is inappropriate, uh, to discuss that they're indigenous and non-indigenous groups of

00:28:54.280 students and that the non-indigenous students are treated unfairly. That's why I was punished.

00:29:00.280 So I know that the university doesn't mind separating people into indigenous and indigenous.

00:29:05.320 They're even happy to make sweeping generalizations.

00:29:07.720 Politics are kind of ingrained actually.

00:29:09.640 Yeah. But what I was punished for is suggesting that the wrong group is being treated unfairly.

00:29:14.600 So beyond the broader problems that you want to talk about in a minute with this whole

00:29:18.600 attitude though, with yourself now, do these punitive actions impact your career or are they going to,

00:29:24.920 or have they, uh, they, they have, um, I, I like to sort of, uh, you know, endure this and not to not

00:29:32.600 complain much about it, but you ask the question, it's a fair question. And they have, um, as long as

00:29:37.640 these proceedings were ongoing, I had to disclose them. Um, I, I did some, uh, legal work in Saskatchewan,

00:29:44.440 uh, and then I applied to be a lawyer in Alberta. So both law societies regulate that from each

00:29:50.440 province. I had to disclose, uh, when these proceedings were ongoing, uh, when a decision

00:29:55.880 came out and then that gave the law societies the ability to review my good character. Um, so that's

00:30:02.280 been, uh, an adventure, let's say, um, it takes up a lot of time and, um, it, it just has affected,

00:30:10.920 I think my options in terms of being called to the bar as quickly as my peers and, um, you know,

00:30:18.040 being able to just launch into my profession without this, uh, hanging over me as, as something

00:30:22.680 where I still need to clear my name. Yeah. And I just wanted to establish that. Cause you know,

00:30:26.120 you, you have filed, you know, a suit against the university and, and it's, you know, not because

00:30:31.640 you just have your nose out of joint or something. I mean, this is potentially caused serious damages

00:30:36.120 to you. Thus, you know, you, you want to see that, uh, remedied. Yes. Yeah. I want to see, um,

00:30:42.520 actually I, I, I know you said before in this segment, uh, you've, uh, you don't have a great

00:30:47.960 degree of faith in our justice system. Um, I believe in our justice system. I believe that the court,

00:30:53.880 uh, is going to get this case, right. I think we've got a strong case and, uh, we're inviting the

00:30:59.720 court to grapple with what happens when a university takes on as an institutional commitment

00:31:06.280 this world view of post-colonial studies, which isn't receptive to, uh, debate about things that

00:31:12.360 they take for granted. Um, and basically we say it offends the principles of academic freedom.

00:31:18.200 So it's not lawful according to the statute that gives the university its powers and it offends the

00:31:23.080 charter, uh, because their constitution is founded on principles of classical liberalism,

00:31:28.600 where individuals have the freedom, uh, to express themselves and, uh, you know,

00:31:33.000 opine on matters of the day, including controversial matters.

00:31:36.360 Yeah. Well, and I mean, foundationally our, our common law system, I think is, is great.

00:31:41.960 And it has some great things. I just feel it's quite drifted from what it was supposed to be,

00:31:45.800 uh, in some cases, particularly criminal law, but that's kind of side down.

00:31:48.920 Fair enough. This is not a criminal cut law case, thankfully.

00:31:51.800 But if, if they are following the tenants of what should be established in law,

00:31:55.480 then you should be confidently, uh, you know, it should serve you well through this,

00:31:59.560 but I mean, how long, what kind of timeline are you looking at on this now?

00:32:02.840 It's very hard to say. Uh, I think we're past three years now from when I first learned of the

00:32:07.320 complaint, we had to sort of march our way through all the proceedings in the university.

00:32:11.560 Uh, now we're at the beginning stages at the court of King's bench. Um, it could take many more years.

00:32:17.400 So who knows?

00:32:18.440 Well, and as you know, again, it was a system of precedents though. So I mean, assuming that the

00:32:23.160 things end well, as, as they could for you in this, would this then, uh, encourage universities

00:32:30.520 to change or examine their policies? Like, could this have broader reaching, uh, implications for

00:32:36.040 we have approached this in a way where I think it can have very, very broad reaching implications.

00:32:41.320 We're taking on the policies at the university of Saskatchewan that affect all members of that

00:32:45.960 university. The language there, um, is similar to that, what you would find in other universities,

00:32:52.920 across Canada. And it really takes on the implications of this worldview. The broader

00:32:58.920 worldview is critical social justice. Um, and that's detailed in, in our experts report.

00:33:04.440 Uh, anywhere that that's happening in a university, this case could have implications.

00:33:08.520 Yeah. Well, I'm just hoping maybe it resets things. As I kind of said before the show,

00:33:12.280 I'm a little concerned as a guy who's getting a little longer in the tooth. And I understand it's

00:33:16.440 the next generation coming up, who's going to be running this world where they're a senior citizen.

00:33:20.520 And I just want to make sure they've had as good and well-rounded an education as possible.

00:33:25.160 And, and, uh, our post-secondary institutions are kind of, I think at a point of crisis with that

00:33:29.640 needs correction. So I guess I'm just hoping your case can, can help, uh, nudge that a little back

00:33:34.280 to where it belongs. Well, every generation has to fight these battles, I think. So, so you,

00:33:40.280 you've got your eyes on the right issues. Um, I just want to specify I'm speaking only in my personal

00:33:45.080 capacity, you know, not, not for any other organization. Um, although I'm supported in

00:33:49.720 this case by, by charity, I wouldn't be able to do it without them. Yeah. Well, and then the

00:33:55.000 justice center for constitutional freedoms is representing me on a different thing. I've got

00:33:58.360 myself into the soup with, I mean, they, you know, there's good organizations that help us out when

00:34:02.120 we've, uh, well, if they accept those cases, so there's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely.

00:34:07.080 Uh, so before I let you go, where, where can people keep track of what's happening with this

00:34:11.000 and what you're up to, uh, on this? So, uh, yes, the, the organization that is supporting me

00:34:16.360 in making this possible is called freedoms advocate. They can be found at freedomsadvocate.ca.

00:34:21.000 Um, the priests selective about their cases. So people should be able to find mine pretty quickly.

00:34:25.800 Um, and we rely on donations. So if anybody's inclined and able to make a contribution, they can

00:34:31.240 donate, uh, through that website, freedomsadvocate.ca, uh, to the cause of protecting the freedom of speech.

00:34:37.960 Great. And I just saw you're, uh, active with the Runnymede society and you want to

00:34:42.040 maybe a little audience know what that is or what it's about. Oh, yes. So, um, the Runnymede society

00:34:47.480 is a special project. It's existed almost for 10 years and, uh, we're at, uh, different law schools

00:34:54.040 across Canada. Almost all of them were mostly volunteer led and we host events to grapple with

00:35:00.520 legal matters of the day, um, with intellectual diversity. Uh, so we're taking

00:35:06.920 a different track from what you'd find often in the classroom. And, uh, the Runnymede society is,

00:35:12.920 it's very important to the organization not to take a position on specific legal issues.

00:35:18.440 It upholds broader principles of constitutionalism, the rule of law and fundamental freedoms.

00:35:24.360 Uh, even in my case, the organization takes no position. I want to make that clear because people

00:35:29.240 need to be able to come to their own conclusions. Well, it's the same principle as with the university,

00:35:34.040 you know, you can debate it and discuss it, not taking a stance necessarily. That's, that's the

00:35:38.120 whole. Yeah, exactly. Well, I appreciate you, you know, not taking it laying down. I mean,

00:35:43.000 you could have just kind of finished school, complied with their things and moved on with

00:35:46.040 your career, but, but you're trying to do something proactively after the fact to, to,

00:35:50.280 well, for your own sake, but I think in, in the broader sake as well. So I appreciate that.

00:35:54.440 And you're coming in to talk to us today. Thanks so much for having me on. All right. Well,

00:35:58.040 and I wish you the best as it, as you said, drags out. It's going to take a while through the courts,

00:36:01.320 but hopefully it gets a good outcome. I hope so too. Thanks again. Thank you.

00:36:06.120 So, yeah, guys, if you want to look it up, Tim Hagstrom and, and yes, you can help out with,

00:36:10.120 uh, you know, those, uh, societies and groups that do help in these things. As I said,

00:36:15.400 the justice center is helping me and then others are helping others. So if you want to kind of lend

00:36:19.400 a hand, cause you know, there's more to this, as you can see with the discussion, it's deeper,

00:36:24.040 it's important and it's going to impact all of us in a way, even if you're not going to post-secondary,

00:36:29.560 uh, institutions, the people who graduate from them are going to have an impact on your life.

00:36:35.800 Uh, as I said, professionals, whether it's, uh, doctors, lawyers, chemists, engineers, you name it.

00:36:41.400 Uh, see what we got going on in the comments here. Uh, yeah, it's a lot of, um,

00:36:48.280 advanced fashions pointing out when the law society requires the acceptance of untruth is fact, then, uh,

00:36:53.320 uh, basis sentences and career longevity on that. There, there isn't a legal system. There's

00:36:57.640 religious tyranny. Yeah. The law societies are a whole other ball of wax. I've had guests on here 0.99

00:37:02.920 to talk about that. I've talked with Jonathan Dennis and others, cause they've been given a rough go

00:37:07.560 with the law societies, which are kind of becoming a little too woke and forgetting, I think what the,

00:37:12.280 their mandate should be again, and trying to maintain balance. Law is an, an interesting area of

00:37:19.400 education in that it's not a hard science, like, uh, you know, math chemistry, uh, you know, physics,

00:37:29.800 where, where you're going to have some solid rules that are incontrovertible, unless you're extremely

00:37:34.440 woke and say two plus two equals five. But you know what I mean? Law is actually an area where

00:37:39.880 it's an ongoing debate. It's just, it's more of a philosophical calling. I mean, it's an important one,

00:37:45.400 but it's one that's changing and flowing with time. So you, it's hard to come up with solid rules and

00:37:52.440 what's right, what's wrong. And it's up to those lawyers to do that task. And of course our judges

00:37:59.720 later on tend to come from the, the legal class. And it was, as I, I said to Tim and I, I didn't expect

00:38:08.040 him to go into that exactly, you know, but I fear for that. When we do DEI on the qualifications

00:38:13.800 to try and get more of people from other particular groups graduating, I worry that we're getting

00:38:22.200 lesser quality graduates or, and it must be infuriating. I'm certain there's some indigenous 1.00

00:38:28.280 or black or other people that graduated from schools and they worked their butts off and they 0.94

00:38:33.240 did fantastic and they're brilliant and they've earned every degree and, uh, you know, recognition

00:38:39.960 that they've gotten, but they know that some people kind of look out the corner of their eye

00:38:44.200 and say, well, was that DEI? Did they really go through the same process as everybody else?

00:38:49.160 It's unfair to them because again, as I said, I, I, to be honest, uh, I would question and I'd have to

00:38:58.440 see, I guess a longer work time resume if I were in a position of hiring for somebody in one of these

00:39:03.080 positions. But if it was fresh out of school, no, I probably I'll say it bluntly. I wouldn't hire people

00:39:08.040 from those, uh, minorities, not because I dislike the minority, but I worry that they wouldn't be as 0.98

00:39:12.360 well qualified as some of the others. And this is, is, is causing harm to the people it's supposed to

00:39:18.600 help. Now, getting back to law, getting back to where we're going, getting back to where I, as I

00:39:24.120 said, our, our, our systems in terminal condition, let's talk about immigration. This is a story some

00:39:28.360 others have probably seen recently. I mean, this is where it gets bizarre too. How are these guys getting

00:39:32.840 on the bench? So this is an Ontario resident, resident, not a Canadian citizen. Let's be clear

00:39:37.880 about that. Tried to buy sex from what he thought was a 15 year old. Yeah. So it was a sting operation. 0.95

00:39:45.240 He was caught for trying to, uh, lure a minor. He's a pedophile. Let's say it for what it is. 0.99

00:39:52.440 He was given a conditional discharge by the judge. Why? To help him stay in Canada because he's not a 1.00

00:40:00.360 citizen yet. So if he got convicted of this, it might impact his ability to become a citizen.

00:40:07.880 Really? Yes. I want it impacted. The man's a pedophile. He pursues children. I want him the

00:40:15.240 hell out of our country. What kind of judge makes an allowance for scum like this to keep him in? 1.00

00:40:25.480 I mean, people say, Oh, how do you define who deserves to stay within Canada? Who doesn't among 0.99

00:40:30.920 immigrants? Well, here's one of the lines is pretty simple. If they're child predators, 1.00

00:40:34.440 we don't want them. Yet a judge couldn't figure that out, made an exception for this man

00:40:42.680 and said, no, we don't want to convict him because it might impact his ability to become a citizen.

00:40:48.520 What the hell is wrong with you guys? And it's this kind of garbage, this, this, this immigration crap 1.00

00:40:57.480 it's going on. Speaking of things that get unfair to others, but we've got to clean up 1.00

00:41:04.920 our system on who we're accepting, who we are in Canada is built on immigration. Immigrations are what 1.00

00:41:10.440 immigrants are what make us strong. They bring a work ethic here. They bring professions. They bring

00:41:15.800 their families. They contribute to the country, but there's a bunch within them that don't. There's a bunch

00:41:22.680 that are sick. There's a bunch that cause problems. If you saw that Western standard 0.82

00:41:26.600 story on that gang in Ontario that was busted because they'd been doing home invasions all

00:41:32.840 over the place. And you saw the names and the people participating in it, guys, they were all new

00:41:39.800 Canadians. They should be the hell out of here, gone, make room for the people who want to come here 1.00

00:41:47.560 and abide by the law. People who want to come here and work and make a living and make a better life

00:41:52.840 for themselves. Why is it so difficult to just look at these things objectively and figure out some of

00:42:01.160 the easy ones, right? Man wants to pick up 15 year old children and molest them. That's one we don't

00:42:07.880 want. I don't need to be a judge to understand that. I don't need a law degree to understand that. I'm

00:42:13.880 pretty confident most Canadians will accept that kind of ruling. And it gets to the stupid, you know, 1.00

00:42:20.040 an issue that's been big lately too with, oh, the big book ban in Alberta. Oh, the Alberta government's 1.00

00:42:25.080 cracking down and banning books. Oh, they're virtual fascists because they're banning books.

00:42:31.160 And then the people start, where do you draw the line? How can we allow people to start judging

00:42:35.320 which books are appropriate for children within children's libraries and which aren't?

00:42:39.720 And I've been posting that on X. It's pretty easy to draw the line on some of them because one of the

00:42:43.480 books that was in Alberta schools in front of children in a library depicted a couple of men

00:42:50.680 going down on each other. Guess what? There, there's one you can safely remove from the list. Is it really

00:42:58.760 that complicated? Was it really that hard? Do you really need to allow it all? No, pull the porn. It's

00:43:07.880 not that complicated. But these naval gazers, these hammerheads, and I really wonder where their

00:43:14.360 interests are, who want to get that in front of our kids. You know, and then there are people saying,

00:43:19.400 oh, so they're pulling it because of homophobia. No, they're pulling it because it's frigging porn. 0.99

00:43:23.400 And, you know, I saw somebody speaking on X who said it. Well, he's a gentleman from the LGBTQ community 0.98

00:43:32.920 or said, why is this always sexualized anyways? You know, they can discuss LGBTQ things with kids as

00:43:39.320 they're growing, as they're figuring out who they are and what they're going to be without going into,

00:43:44.360 oh, by the way, here's the better way to give a man head. It doesn't, you know, they reduced it to the

00:43:51.000 sexual component. There's more to being gay than having sex with each other. Isn't there? 0.95

00:43:59.000 There's the relationship, but these nutcases, we get into these positions, judges, higher education, 0.99

00:44:08.360 our public education system, where they really can't figure out what's porn or what's not what's

00:44:15.800 appropriate to become in front of kids. It's not again, getting back to where Gordon maybe thought it

00:44:20.520 was, uh, exaggerating when I say things are in terminal condition. Well, when we're seeing stuff

00:44:25.320 like this going on, I'd say it's getting a little terminal. If we have a society that really can't

00:44:30.360 figure out when porn is appropriate to put in front of children or not. Yeah. We got a terminal problem,

00:44:36.440 guys. And we got to talk bluntly to it. We got to accept it. We got to get realistic about it.

00:44:43.400 Uh, another one. I'm going to just stir up the anti-vaccination folks among

00:44:48.520 bios. The measles outbreak. It's been getting big. It's been getting wider. Look, folks,

00:44:53.240 it's a hundred percent preventable. I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of talking about all

00:44:56.440 vaccinations. Most people were talking about with the COVID thing, which is separate. They're saying,

00:45:00.680 I accept all the old vaccinations, the proven ones, the polio, the measles, the rubella, the mumps,

00:45:06.600 whatever, all that. Well, not everybody did obviously because there haven't been enough

00:45:10.280 vaccinations and now measles is going around and we don't need it to be going around. I know it's not

00:45:14.760 the most harmful disease in the world, but it's still one you don't want your kids getting if you

00:45:19.400 don't have to. I don't believe in vaccine mandates. Never have, never will. It has to be a choice. It

00:45:26.040 must be a choice. And I think part of the reason people aren't taking it up is because the bloody

00:45:30.760 coercion and crap that came out during COVID, the government actually built the mistrust

00:45:35.400 that led to fewer people getting the vaccinations. But guys, please look into it. We don't need to

00:45:41.320 be battling measles. This is one that should be behind us. So keep it in mind. All right,

00:45:47.240 lots going on. Check in for the pipeline. It's going to come on a little bit later tonight

00:45:51.960 and the rest of our stuff. Be sure to share our links, subscribe, all that good stuff.

00:45:57.720 Send me emails if you've got more you want, coverage, stories, ideas, things like that.

00:46:01.720 And of course, take out a subscription with the standard if you haven't already.

00:46:04.680 So thank you again for tuning in today, guys, and we'll see you next week at this time.

00:46:20.600 We'll see you next week.

00:46:36.520 Bye.

CORY MORGAN SHOW： The Canadian justice system is in terminal condition

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript