Western Standard - Could Alberta pull out of dairy supply management？

00:00:00.000 good evening welcome to the pipeline i'm

00:00:28.960 I'm a Western Standard Alberta columnist, Corey Morgan.

00:00:32.580 This is our weekly panel show where we break down and dissect some of the most pressing issues of the week.

00:00:39.180 This week, we got a treat.

00:00:40.740 We're joined by Erica Barutti, Department Head of Applied Politics at Mackamay College.

00:00:47.220 How's it going, Erica?

00:00:48.480 Good. I'm glad to be back.

00:00:50.120 It was a little bit of a hiatus.

00:00:51.080 Yeah. Well, I thought just once we'd spill out that whole title.

00:00:55.000 You've got your also Senate-elect, Senator-elect and podcaster.

00:01:01.260 What else you got on your shingle these days?

00:01:04.780 Well, I still get introduced a lot of the time as the founding president of the UCP

00:01:08.380 because there's so much Alberta talk about, like, the party and things like that.

00:01:12.660 So it's a long list.

00:01:14.960 Right.

00:01:15.740 Okay.

00:01:16.360 Well, I got one part listed today anyways.

00:01:19.660 We'll try and add to all that resume on the future episodes.

00:01:22.700 It's better than Derek has ever done.

00:01:25.000 introducing my program it was a low bar all right and of course we're also joined by opinion editor

00:01:32.600 and birthday boy nigel henneford how you doing you have to tell everybody it's my birthday well you

00:01:37.400 know it's not every day you turn 50. yeah really and over and over and over again yeah well thanks

00:01:43.400 very much gory great to be here we've got a good lineup of subjects and um we'll have we'll have

00:01:48.200 fun that we do lots to chew into today as always you know nothing controversial of course well

00:01:54.520 Well, Derek's not here, so where is Derek?

00:01:57.660 I don't know.

00:01:58.200 Nobody told me either.

00:01:59.200 No, he's farming.

00:02:00.720 I do believe he's farming.

00:02:02.100 Farming.

00:02:02.960 Yeah.

00:02:03.520 Okay.

00:02:04.180 Is he growing weed now or something?

00:02:06.100 Also, it's not harvest.

00:02:07.480 You'll have to check with him.

00:02:09.220 It's been raining.

00:02:09.940 Oh, I've noted.

00:02:11.100 I mean, our newsroom is just jam-packed full of people, reporters, interns working, yet

00:02:15.380 it was so quiet today.

00:02:16.560 Yeah, but you notice that they all sort of fanned out into the background, get out of

00:02:19.540 the line of the camera.

00:02:20.640 Anyway, what have we got, Corey?

00:02:22.360 What have we got?

00:02:22.840 Well, we're going to start.

00:02:23.340 Erica, maybe you can introduce that. We're looking at a provincial mention and approach with the odious old supply management system. What's going on there?

00:02:32.240 Yeah. So if this is news to you, I'm going to break it down and possibly put in any as many puns as humanly possible.

00:02:39.260 So as you mentioned, like Alberta's premier has been churning up headlines by hinting at pulling, I know you'd like that, pulling the province out of Canada's longstanding dairy supply management system.

00:02:52.920 This comes with the looming U.S. tariffs.

00:02:56.620 They turned up the heat and Alberta often feeling shortchanged on the dairy quotas that compared to Ontario and Quebec.

00:03:04.320 And that's usually where we hear all of the supply management conversations coming from.

00:03:10.000 And this idea is like going, having Alberta go out on its own and leaving the kitchen table to talk serious dinner debate.

00:03:19.240 So while it's technically possible for Alberta to do this and set their own rules,

00:03:23.240 and we've seen that in various different provinces on different files over the past century,

00:03:29.380 it would face federal import controls and some frosty stares from other provinces if alberta

00:03:37.200 pours its own glass of milk brace the legal economic and political ripples that will spill

00:03:43.080 far beyond our borders i hope you guys like that one i put some effort into it today i just think

00:03:48.520 you're milked i thought you milked it to death actually yeah well now that you've buttered up

00:03:52.760 the issue nigel oh my gosh love it this is i mean this is one that kind of came out of the blue i 0.82

00:03:58.800 I mean, I've been on about supply management for a long time, but to be honest, I never really thought of taking the – because it's more of a federal authority sort of thing, but having a province push back on it, that's a change of pace.

00:04:10.860 Well, I mean, I think as far as the Alberta push back on it is concerned, obviously, the situation being what it is between Alberta and Ottawa, anything that we've got, we're likely to bring forward.

00:04:25.120 I mean, first of all, let me say quite clearly and unequivocally, I am not a fan of supply management.

00:04:32.660 There is no excuse for making people pay more for dairy products.

00:04:38.320 And if the government of Canada has to levy tariffs on American producers of 235%, which is a figure I found on the government's own website,

00:04:47.240 235% tariffs in order to keep Canadian product competitive with American imports, I got to tell

00:04:55.400 you, we're paying too much for milk, butter, eggs, and dairy products generally. Now, having said

00:05:03.100 that, there is a time and a place, and I believe the time was 50 years ago when the place was New

00:05:09.820 Zealand, where it was very helpful to have some kind of a mechanism that would bring stability

00:05:16.860 to a dairy industry that was falling apart. So with supply management, the idea was that

00:05:28.160 you had a ticket, you could produce so much, they knew what they were going to get, they knew what

00:05:33.440 they needed, they set the price, and then they maintained it, and the family farm was safe.

00:05:39.360 However, what people have forgotten is that in Quebec, which is really where this is centered, and there's Ontario as well, and a bit in Alberta, but in Quebec, it's not the family farm anymore.

00:05:52.320 We're talking about gigantic corporations who are running dairies and have basically an easy time of it.

00:06:03.860 Now, the farmer, the dairyman, he's not the guy who has the easy time.

00:06:09.380 He's the fellow who gets up at five o'clock to go and milk the cows and get the product on the way.

00:06:14.720 They have stability, but it is a large industry that is being supported,

00:06:21.760 and that's why it has become so very difficult to do anything about it,

00:06:25.580 because these guys have got money, they've got political clout, they're very well organized,

00:06:29.160 to pick the best representatives in the public relations world.

00:06:34.260 And here we are.

00:06:35.600 We just had a month ago an act in Parliament saying that whatever else we're going to sacrifice

00:06:41.720 when we talk trade with the Americans, supply management is safe.

00:06:47.100 I don't think it should be.

00:06:48.400 And I hope that the Premier acts on her talk.

00:06:52.400 As far as effective lobbyists go, I mean, the Americans have the NRA.

00:06:56.460 Canada has the dairy cartels.

00:06:57.860 I mean, they are fantastic at lobbying, if nothing else.

00:07:00.700 They're very effective, and they know how to twist the arms of every federal politician.

00:07:05.340 Now, the tariffs are federal turf.

00:07:06.780 There's not a heck of a lot the province could do about that.

00:07:09.460 But the quota system and some of those other aspects, is there room, Erica, there where then the provincial government could intervene and open up the market, perhaps?

00:07:18.740 Yeah, and you know what?

00:07:19.420 This is going to be me nerding out a little bit because it is, as I mentioned, possible for the province to do this.

00:07:24.300 I learned while using looking at some new case studies, how provinces have made agreements with federal governments to change some of their policies.

00:07:31.760 I learned that Manitoba had their own immigration and refugee settlement service agreement until 2012.

00:07:38.820 And so it has been done. It could be done.

00:07:41.720 The problem that Alberta is going to face on the political side is they have been driving this narrative for the last decade of get out of our lane that happened under Premier Kenny and under Premier Smith.

00:07:51.520 And this is something that is federal jurisdiction.

00:07:55.440 And so the hypocritical side of Alberta standing up for farmers, which to Nigel's point, I agree that it got out of hand with supply management.

00:08:04.660 It is dairy cartel as opposed to the local farmer.

00:08:07.680 I think Alberta should actually start with looking at an agreement with the feds to give the feds the cop out of not having to piss off Ontario and mostly Quebec and give Alberta maybe its own agreement.

00:08:20.980 but I think them kind of going rogue is going to be very hypocritical of this government for

00:08:26.240 them telling the feds to get out of their lane. So yes, it's possible. Yes, there is precedence

00:08:31.080 for it on our national stage, but they've also got a balance. Like this is the first time in

00:08:36.220 years that we've seen all of the premiers and the prime minister actually collectively working.

00:08:43.120 Is that Alberta throwing a wrench in this? And I know we have another topic we're going to talk

00:08:47.260 about that could impact that on pipelines and Indigenous negotiations. But like, is Alberta

00:08:55.000 stirring the pot for the right reason right now? And is it also talking from two sides of their

00:09:01.320 mouth? Is a political dance they're going to have to be very conscious of? Yeah, well, I mean, I'm

00:09:06.360 more inclined, though, that's my nature of the Alberta to Ottawa elbows up approach and to hell

00:09:10.260 what they think. And, you know, let's do some unilateral things. I mean, some of the aspects

00:09:14.240 of all people, Andrew Cohen wrote a fantastic piece on it today. Well, he's written many

00:09:18.200 fantastic pieces. It's just sometimes his attitude drives me nuts. But what he also pointed out,

00:09:23.380 those quotas, I mean, they've created a commodity out of the quotas. For one cow, a quota now in

00:09:29.060 Quebec is worth $25,000. In Western Canada, it's worth twice that. It's yet another area where

00:09:35.140 there's a lot of inequity when it comes to the treatment across the country. Maybe shaking that

00:09:41.780 tree can make them address that at least. I think actually you need to put that on your Facebook

00:09:46.960 page and then forward it to Andrew Coyne and, you know, see if he thanks you or whether he kind of

00:09:52.760 says, well, Corey Morgan, who's, you know, he rarely addresses me once in a while on X. We have

00:10:00.140 the odd exchange, but it rarely ends pleasantly. No, do you know, to Erica's point there, I do.

00:10:05.220 Sorry, Erica, go ahead. No, no, you go, you go, you go. All right, I'll just address your point

00:10:09.140 there that you say it's possibly a bad form.

00:10:14.300 And you're right.

00:10:15.380 But then we're dealing in a negotiation which is bad form from the very beginning.

00:10:22.660 The first bad form didn't come out of Alberta.

00:10:25.600 It came out of the federal government with Bill C-69 and with the no tanker ban, with

00:10:33.880 The ragging to death of the Energy East pipeline, cancellation of Norland Gateway, goes on and on.

00:10:41.400 None of those things were legal.

00:10:43.000 None of them were honest.

00:10:45.180 None of them were well-intentioned.

00:10:47.200 There's no excuse.

00:10:48.380 That was an attack on Alberta.

00:10:50.460 So I think when you've been attacked, there's nothing wrong with you putting a few markers of your own out there and saying,

00:10:55.680 yeah, sure, maybe this isn't the most reasonable thing in the world, but you drop your unreasonable one and I'll drop my unreasonable one.

00:11:01.480 basic union negotiations. Well, I'm going to sound like my dad when I say two wrongs don't

00:11:07.080 make a right. And I think that that's one of the political balances that this province is going to

00:11:12.880 have to take on. Like I said, you could actually work out your own agreement with the federal

00:11:18.360 government and have one-offs like the case study I mentioned about Manitoba. BC also did it with

00:11:24.960 immigration, refugee settlement, things like that, that I think that politically could give

00:11:31.740 the CPC an out on, you know, having to have a say in it, that the liberal government say in it,

00:11:39.120 they might take some hits from the relationship between Quebec and Alberta. But to your point,

00:11:46.420 I mean, it's a screwed up system. I don't love how it's played out. It's now dealing with cartels,

00:11:51.700 as opposed to the family farm, which I think is different in Alberta. And so it is kind of what

00:11:56.860 Quebec is fighting for is apples to Alberta's oranges. So I do think, though, that there's a

00:12:02.880 diplomatic way to go about this without making this, you know, a public relations strategy,

00:12:09.920 which ultimately is, I think, going to hurt Smith down the road because she's been criticized for

00:12:17.380 or criticize the federal government for not staying in their lane,

00:12:21.140 I think you have to practice what you preach to, or at least to some extent.

00:12:25.200 So, you know, Erica, I've got to ask you this.

00:12:28.440 I often get a phone call around about four o'clock saying,

00:12:32.860 can you stop into the grocery store and pick up milk?

00:12:36.880 So that's my excuse for knowing these prices.

00:12:40.500 It's not because I'm a diligent researcher or anything like that.

00:12:43.360 But butter seems to be around about £6.50 a pound.

00:12:47.260 Sometimes you get it on special £5.95.

00:12:50.140 Costco, a little less than that.

00:12:52.240 That's Calgary prices.

00:12:53.460 What are you paying up in Edmonton?

00:12:55.360 It's pretty similar.

00:12:56.980 I do agree.

00:12:57.980 Like these are, the surge of prices is not accessible now.

00:13:03.200 I grew up buying everything from Hutterite.

00:13:04.920 So I, you know, still try and do that local connection and like okay to pay more.

00:13:10.280 But you're right, like going from supermarket and those are where they have to, as a retailer, not decide on price because they need to make margins as well.

00:13:19.400 So it's being set. You're right at the federal level. And that is a challenge. It's hurting our industry.

00:13:24.040 So, again, I think that the affordability piece is a political position that the premier can take.

00:13:30.020 Again, how she negotiates that with Ottawa, I caution on the one side, I'm not saying it's not the fight to pick.

00:13:36.000 I'm not saying that Alberta should have its own deal, just like we saw every province do with daycare to fit what works best.

00:13:44.580 This is a problem with the federal government, but I think that Alberta just has to be conscious of how they navigate this and take it more behind closed doors and work out their own deal.

00:13:54.980 Because you're right, like the prices are noticeable by families.

00:13:58.540 I mean, if you have kids in your life that drink a copious amount of milk and, you know, you're making big breakfasts on the weekends using the products that you're talking about, you do notice it.

00:14:10.300 I mean, I can't remember the last time I didn't order one of those giant cartons from Costco or buy those for eggs because it's the only thing that makes somewhat sense.

00:14:20.000 So, yeah, I think it's that not the what is the issue, but the how Alberta navigates it that I would caution as political concern.

00:14:29.980 Yeah. You know, I remember that guy down in, was it Medicine Hat or Lethbridge for the chickens?

00:14:35.000 Yes, he got arrested for selling eggs because you're not allowed to have more than 300 chickens.

00:14:39.160 And they actually sent the RCMP.

00:14:41.160 That'll segue well into something we're talking about later, about the degree of where the government wants to crack down with justice and where they don't.

00:14:47.160 But I mean, just in closing out, I mean, it's a frustrating system.

00:14:50.740 I guess the discussion is what Smith or if Smith should do anything.

00:14:53.580 But just I'll leave off with that final thing to let people know about this system.

00:14:57.560 We had 140,000 dairy farms when supply management came in.

00:15:00.920 Now we have 9,000 and most of them are in Quebec, Ontario.

00:15:04.800 So if the intent was to protect the family farm, it failed terribly.

00:15:08.880 Can I ask?

00:15:10.000 Because I know that Nigel said that he's researched this.

00:15:13.320 Like, where is this?

00:15:14.060 No, I said I hadn't.

00:15:14.800 my own research was just being asked to pick up stuff at the grocery store oh right okay so so

00:15:19.360 grassroots research but like have we seen where the cpc sits on this because i know they haven't

00:15:24.480 like politically they don't want to pick a fight with quebec but i mean this is something that

00:15:28.480 maxi bernier has been talking about for a long time and is that do we see this strategy being

00:15:34.080 elevated at the conservative level federally to be able to correct this or do you think they're

00:15:39.120 just going to stay out of the lane oh they're going to stay out of this for all their work

00:15:42.960 I probably have on the show, and I had to because it's been a burn myself for years and years.

00:15:47.760 Well, he's running in Alberta, though, his by-elections next month.

00:15:50.960 Yeah, and he clearly didn't even want to talk about it, but I'll give him credit for his honesty.

00:15:54.440 He basically said to me that the system is bad, but it would cost us too much to get out of it.

00:15:59.840 But that's a whole separate discussion on buying up quotas and things like that.

00:16:02.720 But other than that, that was the shortest answer I got out of him on the whole interview.

00:16:05.920 Let's get on to something else I don't want to touch, supply management.

00:16:08.560 You might have to answer that in an upcoming debate.

00:16:11.320 Yeah, well, just a warning.

00:16:12.800 I'll still keep picking at him on that one because it bugs me.

00:16:15.960 All right.

00:16:16.560 Well, let's get on to other things that are bugging, folks.

00:16:18.840 Nigel, we had a concert scheduled, a performance out in Halifax,

00:16:24.680 and I guess we'll get into national jurisdiction again, federal property,

00:16:28.620 and it's been canceled.

00:16:29.520 What's going on?

00:16:30.460 Well, okay, so what happened, for those who haven't been keeping up with the news,

00:16:34.760 there's an American Christian evangelist.

00:16:37.940 He's very conservative in his views.

00:16:40.840 He spoke well of Trump, which, of course, is anathema to, you know, the refined sensibilities in Canadian government circles, perhaps for good reason at the moment, but by and large, you know, he doesn't go for critical theory.

00:16:58.000 He's against the idea of the LGBT sexual minorities having special privileges, but he's a singer, and he wanted to come up to Canada, and he has come up to Canada, in fact, and has got a two-week tour.

00:17:16.220 He'll be in your town, Erica, in about a week's time.

00:17:19.980 Anyway, name is Sean Foyt, F-E-U-C-H-T, Sean Foyt.

00:17:26.220 And his opening was going to be at a Parks Canada site in Halifax.

00:17:32.580 And what happened was that people objected, say, not to the fact that he was a Christian evangelist per se,

00:17:42.800 but that his views did not reflect the core values of Parks Canada of inclusion and a safe place and so forth.

00:17:52.460 Now, for me, the issue is this.

00:17:55.500 So Parks Canada is public property.

00:17:58.840 Some people obviously don't agree with what Mr. Foyt is all about.

00:18:04.520 On the other hand, I have a suspicion that a lot of people do.

00:18:08.240 And so is Parks Canada only for the people who see things the government's way?

00:18:17.260 Or is it for whoever comes along who's got the money and in good faith puts it down and then they go and do their event?

00:18:24.920 Now, for those following the case, I believe that Mr. Foyke has found an alternative location.

00:18:29.320 But you can now see the stories starting to pop up where the city of Charlottetown,

00:18:34.880 where he is to do as if it's any of their business, say, well, you know, we're not supportive of this.

00:18:40.820 And that's typical of the kind of response because he's an American conservative, you know.

00:18:46.000 So we have a thing with the Americans at the moment. 0.91

00:18:48.360 But actually, it's at the government level, at our level.

00:18:52.380 if you're a christian and you like that kind of music then you should be able to go to it and

00:18:58.940 it's kind of irritating that the government is taking these this sides in this way well yeah

00:19:05.180 i mean it's a public space kind of by view but i understand you don't want to host a clan march or

00:19:10.940 i suspect if it was an anti-israel march they probably wouldn't say a thing as you

00:19:14.700 then they'll be gt event there at this very site last week apparently so

00:19:18.540 So clearly they favor certain points of view and not others.

00:19:22.600 It's difficult.

00:19:23.400 I mean, you either have all or nothing.

00:19:24.840 I mean, you can't pretend it's not politicized.

00:19:26.680 I'm sure if you had good old Jan Arden up there pissing and moaning, she'd be up and making her political views on the stage and nobody would say a peep. 1.00

00:19:34.320 You know, do we have public venues or not?

00:19:38.400 I mean, I'm not a big fan of Christian rock, those sorts of things.

00:19:41.820 So you know what?

00:19:42.220 I would just choose not to go.

00:19:43.540 I don't find it that complicated.

00:19:45.300 But our cancelers seem to always find a way through it.

00:19:48.200 But, like, Erica, what do you think the obligations should be then on public?

00:19:52.460 I mean, I understand they do have to have a degree of vetting of who they have in those spaces.

00:19:57.160 But it does seem to be kind of an unfair tilt.

00:20:02.340 Oh, 100%.

00:20:03.520 Like, I'm just, who in Parks Canada has nothing to do that they're surveying where a religious group is playing concerts?

00:20:13.080 Like, obviously, you could be doing more things like reviewing forestry and wildfire management instead of looking at who's performing where.

00:20:22.920 So, yeah, I think you guys are saying the exact same thing I am that, OK, like, either make it for everyone or not.

00:20:30.760 Listen, I just Googled it when you guys were saying like Jan Arden is actually performing at the Badlands Amphitheater in Drumheller, which is part of the Alberta Badlands.

00:20:38.760 So if that's okay, why, which I believe is provincial, but either way, like the province

00:20:44.400 of Alberta is not saying, oh, we don't like your values and beliefs.

00:20:47.880 Also, who the hell knows what the values and beliefs and brand of the national parks is

00:20:53.860 and how does it not relate to a organization that is very community and collaborative focused

00:21:00.780 to bring entertainment?

00:21:03.460 Like to me, I'm like, where do they not align?

00:21:06.280 And so I think it's just a bunch of BS.

00:21:08.000 I think it's picking a fight that doesn't need to be picked.

00:21:11.720 I think it is totally, to your point, politicizing something that is actually just like, you

00:21:16.500 don't have to be Christian to like Christian rock.

00:21:19.540 You could just like, you know, you don't have to be from the country to like country music.

00:21:23.040 I think it's absolutely an infringement on freedom of expression, freedom of choice,

00:21:29.720 freedom of all of those things, which I think would probably be on brand for a national

00:21:33.740 park. 0.99

00:21:35.040 I think this is like a bureaucrat or a department that doesn't know their damn job. 0.99

00:21:40.320 And so it's really unfortunate. 0.98

00:21:41.700 I'm glad that they were able to find a new venue.

00:21:43.900 And I hope when they come to Alberta, they are very welcome here.

00:21:49.480 We'll buy a ticket for you, Erica, so you can go and see them in a minute.

00:21:53.800 Put it on expensive.

00:21:54.700 I like that you don't think I need friends.

00:21:57.320 Like, you know, you can maybe throw them to you.

00:21:59.020 I'm not making any judgments on you.

00:22:01.300 But I'll tell you what, I want to go back to what you said early on, right at the start of that rant.

00:22:07.000 You said, well, has Parks Canada got nothing better to do?

00:22:10.200 You know, are these people, where do they get their ideas from?

00:22:13.900 Well, in a thoughtful opinion piece written by, well, I admit it, I wrote it myself.

00:22:22.220 I stayed up late last night to do it.

00:22:23.680 I looked at what the federal government has been doing under the Trudeau administration

00:22:30.840 and subsequently continuing under Mr. Carney

00:22:34.380 and how they are actually using government ministries

00:22:38.680 to try and change the way that Canadians think.

00:22:43.560 I mean, you know, the high school civics, of course, says,

00:22:46.260 well, everybody thinks what they think and they choose the politicians they like best

00:22:49.700 and then the politicians go and govern.

00:22:51.160 And that's sort of the grade 11 idea of what politics is about.

00:22:58.220 And I think, broadly speaking, that described things until Trudeau Jr. came on the scene in 2015.

00:23:04.860 But since that time, there has been a very deliberate attempt, an intentional, they even talk about it,

00:23:11.320 to actually make Canadians into a better, kinder, gentler, woker, more accepting, more everything.

00:23:18.520 You know all the words that they use.

00:23:21.160 people and that's not what they were elected to do but they quietly do it and the way they do it

00:23:26.440 there's a lot of ways parks canada for example has been given a mandate to tell canadian history

00:23:33.080 in a certain way not the way you were taught so that's why you see the placards around the

00:23:39.080 statues changing if in fact the statues even stay um the um the crtc has been empowered to take over 0.63

00:23:49.720 the internet in canada there were three landmark bills in the last couple of years to facilitate

00:23:57.480 that one of them the online harms act didn't get passed that died on the order paper but that was

00:24:03.240 actually the one that would have said look folks if you see something you don't like complain we'll

00:24:08.440 pay the costs you sue the person if you win you get money and we'll you know we'll we'll we'll

00:24:15.800 vanquish people with bad ideas uh what else was there crtc the well the privy council office now

00:24:24.200 listen there's a there's a number of these things but here's the one that really grabbed me just

00:24:29.240 last week it emerged thanks to black locks that the privy council office has a section that is

00:24:36.440 specifically tasked to change the way people think, to change opinions. That's

00:24:43.700 the top of the food chain in the federal government. The Privy Council

00:24:48.500 office is the, you know, geographically it's you exit the Langevin block back

00:24:54.740 door and you walk into the PCO. They're like that. And so this government is

00:25:00.200 actually doing something what they'd like to do, which is to try and change

00:25:04.940 Canadians so that's what I that's kind of this thing in Nova Scotia this came

00:25:12.320 out today I didn't know that folks I'm not queuing up Nigel's right but this

00:25:17.600 was published today and it does cover all of those Nigel it was published last

00:25:21.440 night oh perfect you will receive your own personal copy by email after the

00:25:26.060 show I do I do get the newsletters though so but I would love it right after

00:25:31.220 the show i'll just remind people it's the time to if you want to catch those columns those news

00:25:35.680 everything else you got to make the plug for this show get on there westernstandard.news we're

00:25:40.440 subscriber based we aren't taking tax dollars so if you want to get past that pesky paywall and see

00:25:45.340 those columns and news and rants and raves get on there take out a subscription it's 10 bucks a

00:25:50.020 month 100 bucks a year yep that 100 bucks a year is great i encourage everyone to do that oh yeah

00:25:56.260 we never used to think twice about a newspaper subscription getting it dropped on your doorstep

00:25:59.780 No, you don't even have to get rid of that old newspaper.

00:26:01.280 Man, you can't even get a movie ticket for $10.

00:26:03.200 No, no, it's a heck of a deal.

00:26:05.500 Well, I can.

00:26:07.900 Okay, I guess.

00:26:09.240 Oh, yes, you hit that birthday and just passed 65 or something.

00:26:11.580 50.

00:26:11.920 Oh, I thought he was 50.

00:26:14.120 Well, there was something like that, yeah.

00:26:16.420 You know, the makeup artist is pretty competent.

00:26:19.040 It's in the double digits there.

00:26:20.680 All right, well, we'll see what happens with it.

00:26:22.700 But, I mean, it's just that role of federal places.

00:26:24.560 I grew up in Banff.

00:26:25.500 I know very well about Parks Canada.

00:26:27.480 And this, as I was saying in the office, started a long time ago.

00:26:31.600 Sheila Copps, when she was the heritage minister meddling in things.

00:26:34.540 Oh, what did she do?

00:26:35.220 She shut down a cadet camp that had been operating north of Banff for like 40 years.

00:26:39.880 Every year they would come out, they'd do rock climbing and things like that, because it's a good environment for it.

00:26:44.180 And, of course, being typical tequila Sheila, it was mostly beaking on about how the militarization and such shouldn't be encouraged and other things.

00:26:52.300 So it wasn't just a matter of an inappropriate venue.

00:26:54.220 She just felt that the political messaging was incorrect.

00:26:56.940 Thus, she shut it down.

00:26:58.940 You know, it tells you something about the general caliber of liberal representation is that after she retired from politics,

00:27:05.940 even conservatives who were trying to interact with the federal government might seek her out. 0.70

00:27:12.940 And you get little anecdotes saying, well, actually, she was one of the better ones.

00:27:15.940 But everything you said is true.

00:27:17.940 One that I hold her against her with, my wife and I really like the gardens out at Lake Louise by the hotel there.

00:27:29.320 Absolutely beautiful.

00:27:30.400 People would book them to have their wedding photographs taken.

00:27:33.060 It was just a nice lawn, beautiful flowers.

00:27:36.060 Everything was well kept up.

00:27:37.660 Mrs. Copps decided that that was much too sophisticated and ordered it.

00:27:43.900 returned to the natural state with native plants such as the Icelandic poppy. And now what you see

00:27:53.680 when you go out there is the weed bed infested by gophers and ravens pecking at them. It's really

00:28:00.920 sad how that was destroyed. That's on Mrs. Copps's town. They've micromanaged the parks in some

00:28:07.000 terrible ways with personal agendas and it hasn't stopped unfortunately. Well let's get on with

00:28:11.700 Personal agendas, vendettas, the longest mischief trial in Canadian history has reached its final phase now with sentencing.

00:28:21.980 I think nobody was shocked that they found Tamara Leach and Chris Barber guilty,

00:28:26.100 but now we're at what would be the conclusion of this, I guess, with a sentence.

00:28:30.440 Well, you know, this is sort of over tight with what we were speaking about just a moment ago

00:28:34.640 about how the government is trying to manage people rather than govern.

00:28:39.240 And, yeah, the sentencing hearing for Tamara Leach and Chris Barber got started earlier today.

00:28:43.820 And I'm going to say that how their case turns out is going to be one of those situations where in the rearview mirror, everything you need to know about who runs Canada and how it is run, we'll be there to see.

00:28:57.960 So quick rundown. Let's just look back.

00:29:00.860 A few months ago, Leach and Barber were found guilty of mischief on charges arising from their activities at the time of the convoy in 2022.

00:29:07.960 22. And the crown is seeking a prison sentence of seven years

00:29:12.100 for a leech and eight years for Barbara. Now this is for mischief.

00:29:16.340 You know, mischief is kicking over outhouses and causing a ruckus

00:29:20.200 in the back alley at midnight. But they

00:29:24.000 charge them for mischief, and I guess the law permits sentences of

00:29:28.020 this size. And Barbara was also convicted 0.65

00:29:32.080 of counseling others to disobey a court order, which is why

00:29:35.100 while they're looking for a higher sentence from him.

00:29:38.320 This, of course, is a little outrageous

00:29:39.540 when you actually know and feel the issue.

00:29:43.940 When people get half, 0.93

00:29:45.340 people don't get seven years for killing each other.

00:29:47.880 You know, you had a story just in the last week

00:29:50.600 about somebody who attacked his girlfriend,

00:29:53.400 stabbed her three times,

00:29:54.820 hit her over the head with a lead pipe 0.99

00:29:56.420 in three years, you know. 0.99

00:29:58.940 I mean, if the government likes your point of view,

00:30:01.680 you can cause all the mischief you like

00:30:03.100 and you won't get charged.

00:30:05.100 So, really, what happened here was that the convoy and all those activities exposed the

00:30:10.920 intellectual nudity of the Trudeau regime.

00:30:15.100 And governments hate to be exposed like that, so they crack down hard, and you'll remember

00:30:20.980 how the bank accounts were attached and how they were listening in on the cell phones

00:30:26.340 and some fairly vigorous suppression of public gatherings there, people getting charged with

00:30:33.280 horses and so forth and so on but um you know the provincial premiers were this this was all about

00:30:42.000 control the provincial premiers were told that they wouldn't get federal money unless they

00:30:46.480 cooperated with what was often a nonsensical plan i mean we're seeing now that the vaccines were

00:30:54.480 not universally safe and not universally effective but we were told at the time

00:30:58.960 got to do this and this of course was the it was was where this started it came when truckers

00:31:04.960 very solitary occupation being a trucker you're in the cab you know you don't have too much company

00:31:11.040 and they were advised cross-border truckers very late in the pandemic

00:31:15.360 that suddenly they had to be vaccinated well they knew that there was no difference between a virus

00:31:21.280 on the american side of the border and on the virus on the canadian side

00:31:24.800 and they knew what we all suspected, that the vaccine didn't do anything for you.

00:31:32.320 So, in short, the truckers knew that the Trudeau government's vaccine mandate for them had nothing

00:31:38.080 to do with science and everything to do with politics, and so they said enough, and we all

00:31:43.840 know what happened, and there won't be any apologies coming from the government either.

00:31:48.160 So, look, these two people are in a very awkward spot.

00:31:54.400 My guess is, if you want to guess, is that they're already found guilty.

00:32:00.360 They'll be given a stiff sentence.

00:32:02.320 And then as a generous act of condescension, they will be suspended.

00:32:07.980 They won't actually go to jail.

00:32:09.800 But the messages out there don't mess with us.

00:32:12.420 We're in charge.

00:32:13.580 Yeah, I hope you're correct in that sense.

00:32:15.600 And I suspect the sentence will be similar in that.

00:32:17.600 I mean, they've been found guilty. That portion's done. The hearings were held. Maybe there'll be an appeal. Who knows? But now it's what will be the appropriate punishment. Both of them did, again, an excessive amount of time pre-court, you know, without bail for a mischief charge. And that tends to be considered triple time served.

00:32:38.240 I think a judge could come in and say, you know, don't do it again.

00:32:40.740 There's your time.

00:32:41.440 This is your suspended sentence.

00:32:42.960 But it's what the Crown is asking for is still outrageous.

00:32:46.420 Just as I was driving in this morning, I was listening about a horrific case just today in Calgary.

00:32:51.860 The Crown has submitted on a case where two parents tortured their 18-month-old to death, and they've been convicted.

00:32:59.520 The Crown is asking for eight years.

00:33:01.820 So the Crown considers that sort of crime to be on par with what Leach and Barber did.

00:33:07.760 I mean, I understand the Crown can ask for whatever they like. It's up to the judge in the end. But that says a lot about how they're viewing this particular offense versus, you know, some of the stuff I think that is almost universally people could say is horrible and deserves the full extent of the law.

00:33:25.340 Now, the other part is, is this, they want to make an example, but what a harsher sentence

00:33:31.980 be preventative. Does it look like Barbara or Leach are going to start another convoy? Does

00:33:35.960 it look like they're at risk of putting the public at risk any longer? I haven't seen any indication

00:33:40.240 of that. Erica, I would think the judge would take those things into account. Again, I mean,

00:33:45.060 he's found them guilty, but I don't think you'll be inspired to give them an excessive

00:33:50.280 incarceration or anything? Well, I would hope not. I think the challenge we're facing right now

00:33:56.180 is that this is political and this is, you know, I haven't been tracking, unfortunately,

00:34:01.940 but the appointment of the judges is federal. And so we've seen a big surgence of the judicial

00:34:09.380 being influenced by appointments by the federal government over the last decade, even the Supreme

00:34:14.320 Court, because Harper hadn't filled many of those vacancies. And so we're in a situation where the

00:34:19.020 judicial system I think is trying to set an example by these individuals but I mean if you're

00:34:24.140 comparing and contrasting their crime which they've already been found guilty of especially

00:34:30.040 on the mischief file it's like well what happened to all those people that ruined statues and

00:34:35.180 violated public property and decided to light churches on fire like things like that what is

00:34:41.800 their punishment and if it's not equal to what we're seeing from Barber and Lynch like why

00:34:48.880 is that the case? And how are the values and beliefs being penetrated to our judicial system?

00:34:53.680 So that's my first concern. The second part is kind of coming back to what I was talking about

00:34:59.220 with Parks Canada. It's like, does the judicial system not realize the huge impact we have on

00:35:05.820 human trafficking right now or domestic abuse? I mean, every day, even on LinkedIn, I'm seeing

00:35:11.220 stories of women across Canada being killed because of the fact that we don't have harsh

00:35:17.900 punishment for those dealing with domestic violence. And we don't have the right services

00:35:23.320 to protect those women and children and men in some cases, or even elder abuse, right? Like,

00:35:28.540 I think that this is one where it's just so political that my job will not drop if this

00:35:33.940 sentence is higher than we think it should be. But that is completely inappropriate and completely,

00:35:39.700 you know, unfounded that it's comparing these to cases that are far like the one you use that are

00:35:47.860 far more consequential to society. Like, I don't think they're going to get out and be the first

00:35:54.600 thing they're going to do is go start another protester convoy. Like, I think they've learned

00:35:59.060 their lesson. They've served copious amounts of time. And hopefully that gets taken into

00:36:03.820 consideration. But I wouldn't be surprised if this was to politicize and make an example out

00:36:11.160 of these individuals. So we'll see what happens. I unfortunately don't have confidence in the

00:36:17.400 the judicial process, given the penetration by the government and political values being jammed

00:36:23.380 down their throats. So hopefully this judge has a better conscience than the liberal government.

00:36:29.360 You know, you brought that to the right point in the discussion, Erica. You're talking about

00:36:37.080 the politicization of the judiciary. I had the papers put in my hands a few years ago about

00:36:43.980 people who wanted to be judges i always thought that you know to be a judge somebody tapped you

00:36:48.540 on the shoulder and said you know you you fit but no you just put your you put an application in if

00:36:55.420 you're qualified at all and so the what's on the qualification form very interesting it's it's a

00:37:02.940 it's a very woke agenda that they are uh so they're they're looking for a certain type of

00:37:08.540 person who thinks a certain type of way and neither corey nor i would qualify and it wouldn't purely

00:37:13.980 be on our lack of uh i might from uh uh the general right check but then you do a background

00:37:20.380 check on me and they probably i don't uh that's your next stop on your regiment point being

00:37:30.460 it's probably similar to the senate application from prime minister i think um but anyway so

00:37:36.860 that's so the system is stacked but it harks back to what we were talking about a little earlier

00:37:42.540 about the way that the government is trying to influence canadians who they are what they think

00:37:47.340 what they can do and the convoy was a challenge to that whole way of thinking so they are

00:37:56.300 absolutely going to um focus their hatred well that's that's let's not beat around the bush

00:38:05.260 They don't like Leach and Barber.

00:38:07.680 They're going to focus that on those two individuals

00:38:11.860 as a warning to everybody else.

00:38:14.180 And you know what the proof of this is going to be.

00:38:15.980 One of our columnists pointed this out yesterday.

00:38:18.740 He said, in the West, Leach and Barber will be heroes.

00:38:22.760 In the East, they will be widely and universally disparaged.

00:38:27.940 And that our democracy might not be a democracy,

00:38:31.360 but a dictatorship.

00:38:32.900 Maybe that might be an undertone.

00:38:34.500 Well, and just to look from, you know, to close it off, like from political motive, if that's indeed the thing, I would think politically, the liberals, especially with a new prime minister, just want to put this one to bed.

00:38:44.100 It's been years, you know, give them a suspended sentence, get it off the docket and stop people from hearing about it.

00:38:50.840 But if they give them time in federal prison, they're going to reignite this and they're going to martyr them.

00:38:56.660 And it's not going to have the effect of calming the protests.

00:38:59.240 It might spawn a whole new one. 0.90

00:39:01.280 And I just think if the judge is looking from that perspective, too, everybody's just kind of better off by getting this thing finished and into the history books rather than a current problem.

00:39:11.540 But we'll see. Nothing surprises in this country anymore. I wouldn't bet money on any of the outcomes.

00:39:16.380 No, I think that that is a really good point, Corey, though, on the Balance Act that Carney's administration now has to look at because he doesn't wear any of those things.

00:39:24.960 the emergency act and the usage upon that has been criticized. And so, yeah, he, I would almost

00:39:31.460 think it would be in the prime minister's best interest, not obviously calling the judge, but

00:39:35.560 in, in the, the fact that this sets a tone that, um, he's going to have to carry this forward.

00:39:41.720 And like you said, it might spark up additional protests, which would be, I think he'd handled

00:39:47.640 maybe very differently than Trudeau. And so, yeah, it's probably a dumpster fire he doesn't

00:39:52.300 want to deal with. So the best tactic for everyone would just to be, you know, recognize what

00:39:57.800 happened, they are already guilty, give them a minimal sentence, and move on, because we can't

00:40:02.720 afford in this time of desire for unity, to have more divisive things, especially between the West

00:40:09.240 and the East. You know, Erica, it's interesting what you the way you put that, that there will

00:40:16.020 never be a phone call between a politician and a judge on this matter. Not because that would be

00:40:23.280 illegal, but because there is no necessity. Everybody around government understands what

00:40:31.780 is necessary. If they didn't understand, they wouldn't have been hired. So any so-called

00:40:40.280 arm's length agency that you care to think of. That's the way it goes. So between that and a

00:40:48.000 thoughtful editorial in the Globe and Mail or something, they get the word around to each other

00:40:54.980 what's needed. We had a few big issues to hit today, so we're really running the clock. So we

00:41:00.560 have to hit her quick here with this. First Nations, unsurprisingly, in BC are opposed to

00:41:07.240 pipeline coming through. Is there anything they ever supported?

00:41:10.040 Well, yeah, more land ceded to them for their exclusive administration. But the story we're

00:41:19.000 talking about here, Erica, is one that came out yesterday where the coastal First Nations in

00:41:25.160 British Columbia sent a strongly worded open letter to Mark Carney, prime minister, asking

00:41:31.880 him to reject the new pipeline proposal that is being advanced by Premier Smith. It's the northern

00:41:38.920 route. And it's the one that David Eby said, well, she doesn't have a sponsor and she doesn't have a 0.98

00:41:46.440 there's no project. So, well, the Indians think that there's a project and they've asked Mr.

00:41:51.720 Carney to deep sex it. Now, I would personally, because I'm old and cynical, interpret that as 0.71

00:41:59.560 just the sort of first move in the negotiations to see where this thing is going to land

00:42:03.960 and who gets paid what for for doing it but that's the story so um erica you know about pipelines

00:42:13.720 i well i know um how much the federal government and the indigenous groups can get in the way of

00:42:19.480 one um i think that you know there was a lot of people that have looked to carney and his building

00:42:25.880 Canada act as a symbol of unity and looking at actually making Canada an economic and energy

00:42:36.360 superpower. The key, and I think you've talked about this on the show, I know I've talked about

00:42:41.520 with you folks before, the biggest thing is the stakeholder of the Indigenous pathways. Now,

00:42:46.140 correct me if I'm wrong, but there is already corridors set up for a pipeline like this,

00:42:51.320 And it wouldn't actually be completely unfeasible to run another pipeline along the transportation corridor and other pipelines that exist for an LNG pipeline.

00:43:04.640 So to me, it's kind of a weak argument by this Indigenous group on the why, because it's already a pathway there.

00:43:12.740 But this is going to be a big symbol of Carney's leadership.

00:43:16.440 And if he's serious about this, because it's always been identified that the hardest stakeholder and hardest hurdle on this Building Canada's act is the Indigenous groups and those types of consultations.

00:43:27.720 So I don't know if they're asking for a full stop, if they're asking for more funds, guaranteed income or employment.

00:43:35.140 Like these are the types of negotiations I think would come from Indigenous partners that actually want to inject revenue and sustainability into their communities, especially in this case.

00:43:48.580 So, again, we'll see how Kearney navigates this, but this is going to be a hurdle that we see on every one of those pipeline projects that are coming down the road.

00:43:57.600 Well, until a federal leader has the courage to define the difference between consent and consulting, we're not going to get anything done.

00:44:05.140 So, I mean, that's just the reality. Somebody's got to put a foot down eventually because they're, you know, implying that we need consent. And technically we don't. The Supreme Court's ruled on that many times, actually.

00:44:15.520 Yeah, but I'm I'm OK. So I was going to say, like, I don't know, you know, the appetite in B.C.

00:44:24.980 I suspect there's a more appetite in Alberta to push back on this consent versus consultation.

00:44:34.020 Do you think that this is like the DOA of these projects, Corey or Nigel?

00:44:41.240 If somebody doesn't make a stand on that portion, and they've got the Supreme Court behind them.

00:44:47.180 I wrote a recent column on that, breaking it down.

00:44:49.080 There's been multiple rulings, but no politician dares to say it.

00:44:52.140 If they won't, nothing will get done.

00:44:55.000 Because you'll never get full consent.

00:44:56.100 To Erica's point, I think you put it very well this morning.

00:44:58.240 And you say, well, 3% of the population get to determine what the other 97% get to do.

00:45:03.440 That can't go on.

00:45:05.060 It's sensitive, I know.

00:45:06.280 And I wouldn't want to be the politician to have to step into that mire.

00:45:08.780 But eventually somebody's going to have to.

00:45:10.360 All right, well, we're on to the parting shots, yes.

00:45:15.140 Oh, gosh, we're as disappointed as I was with the First Minister's meeting in Muskoka there.

00:45:21.720 You know, the big report this morning was Doug Ford coming out and saying what a nice, humble man Mr. Carney was, you know, all sorts of that sort of stuff.

00:45:29.940 And what I was actually hoping for from it was some idea of what our leaders are going to do about electric vehicles, about crime, immigration, overtaxation, getting some infrastructure built.

00:45:40.360 We've just been talking about that.

00:45:41.880 You know, the whole list.

00:45:43.520 It's getting right with the U.S. 0.98

00:45:44.760 Cozying up to Europe isn't going to help, but none of this was talked about.

00:45:48.340 These gatherings could be useful, but for Canadians, the day after is no better than the day before.

00:45:54.980 They meet, they eat, nothing changes.

00:45:58.000 They eat well, typically.

00:45:59.960 Oh, Muskoka's lovely.

00:46:01.540 They really look after you.

00:46:02.860 What have we got for us, Erica?

00:46:05.000 Yeah, mine is a little bit more close to home.

00:46:07.660 It's at the Alberta NDP and this make-believe Better Together campaign that they're running.

00:46:13.760 And the reason, regardless of how you feel about the Alberta Next panel,

00:46:17.880 and the jury's still out for me on what it's going to provide as a pathway for Albertans,

00:46:22.960 but it doesn't matter to me.

00:46:24.180 If you're going to be hypocritical about the government using tax dollars to do this type of panel,

00:46:32.000 then don't be the pot calling the kettle black and create your exact same Better Together campaign

00:46:37.460 to contrast it and using tax dollars this is exactly what the alberta ndp did with the uh

00:46:44.580 canadian pension plan conversation and so it's like if you don't like it take a different strategy

00:46:51.060 as opposed to doing the exact same thing that you're criticizing i just think it's another

00:46:55.780 example of this ndp government especially under nenshi really not even understanding how anything

00:47:02.340 works in government or how to get the attention of albertans it's a pot calling kettle black

00:47:07.860 mentality and i just think hopefully albertans see through all of it right on i'll just be quick

00:47:14.660 with mine just with those knobs running that long ballot protest it's just an abuse of the system

00:47:20.820 i'm already sick of them it's what a hundred and some people on the ballot now it's huge i figure

00:47:25.220 maybe one of the things is if you want to start a long ballot process you should be willing to have

00:47:29.780 that long ballot rolled up and stuffed somewhere most uncomfortable and maybe that would inspire

00:47:34.820 them not to do it but we need to amend the elections act obviously to make some different

00:47:38.420 uh signature requirements or official agencies you want to drop the language on that yeah i'd

00:47:42.660 be willing to i might stay out of the the the rectal abuse but uh all the same it's just something

00:47:48.900 you know again our tolerance gets too far and then we allow people to just pointlessly abuse things

00:47:53.460 if there was a purpose to their protest maybe i could see it but they're just doing it for the

00:47:57.300 sake of doing it and it's tiresome it pisses off voters and that's like the exact anti-democratic

00:48:03.460 point that i think that they pretend to be making so exactly federal government stop doing things

00:48:08.900 that don't matter to people get the hell out of parks concerts and focus on domestic abuse human 1.00

00:48:16.340 trafficking and dealing with the indigenous consultations like this is another one that 1.00

00:48:22.740 But what a waste of tax dollars.

00:48:25.520 Amen. Preach it, sister.

00:48:27.100 All right.

00:48:27.980 Well, Erica, Nigel, thank you very much.

00:48:30.720 It was a great chat.

00:48:31.640 It went by too quickly this time.

00:48:33.560 Yeah, it was great, though.

00:48:35.100 We're a card, so I appreciate it.

00:48:36.840 Look forward to the next time we're together in this kind of lineup, perhaps.

00:48:40.220 And we'll catch up next week.

00:48:42.680 It'll be as soon as next week.

00:48:43.640 Right on.

00:48:44.420 And hopefully Derek's charming.

00:48:45.720 Great to see you, Erica.

00:48:46.820 We'll see.

00:48:47.620 See you.

00:48:48.420 All right.

00:48:49.300 So thank you all for tuning in.

00:48:50.840 Guys, make sure to tune in to the other shows.

00:48:52.480 Nigel has a fantastic interview with Premier Smith that's up there.

00:48:55.980 I've got my show Wednesdays at noon.

00:48:58.260 And subscribe to the Western Standard.

00:49:00.160 And, hey, check out Macamie College, you know, an applied politics course.

00:49:04.020 Well worth it if you really want to get into depth of things.

00:49:06.640 So thank you very much for joining us this week, and we'll see you next time.

00:49:22.480 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - July 24, 2025

Could Alberta pull out of dairy supply management？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript