On April 28th, Mark Carney's Liberals were returned to power for the fourth consecutive term, as many predicted. As many of us predicted, this lit the spark for the latest flare-up in the Alberta independence movement. But this time, unlike previous iterations, it seems a lot more serious and a lot less credible. It s no longer just a few cranky farmers and ranchers on the prairies who are angry and want away from Ottawa. Now it s getting support from a much broader swath of people, business leaders and increasingly even political leaders.
00:02:03.320To discuss more, we're joined by Alberta Premier Danielle Smith.
00:02:08.360Premier Smith, thank you for joining us.
00:02:10.240My pleasure, Derek. Good to talk to you again.
00:02:11.900You have outlined some very clear demands of the new Kearney Liberal government and given them a six-month timeline in which we expect to see actions over words.
00:02:23.480You called your meeting with Prime Minister Kearney a positive first step, but just yesterday he appointed Julie Debreuzen from downtown Toronto as his environment minister, to which you responded,
00:02:34.240We are being forced to contend with yet another keep-it-in-the-ground environment minister. This is a step in the wrong direction.
00:02:40.740There is still more than five months left on your timeline, but what happens from you and your government if that time elapses and there's not been substantive progress?
00:02:53.180I hope that doesn't happen. And not only was that of concern, I have grave concern that Stephen Guibault is still mouthing off, even though he's no longer Environment Minister.
00:03:04.260He's just in charge of the media again.
00:03:05.540Well, just saying that, lying, frankly, saying that the Trans Mountain pipeline is only 40% full and there's no need to build new pipelines, he's dead wrong and he needs to be corrected. The Trans Mountain pipeline is 80% used. It's coming to near a capacity. There's going to be dredging of the second arrows that allows for greater loads to be taken through that passage.
00:03:29.580And we're already hearing from industry about how the demand is increasing around the world.
00:03:34.460Now that we can meet new markets, we've got all kinds of refineries that accept heavy oil that want more of it.
00:03:39.880Not to mention the recent reports coming out of the United States showing that their conventional oil is falling off.
00:03:45.720And so they're going to need heavy oil to be able to backstop that.
00:03:49.220And we also see new sanctions on Venezuela and Iran, which are the other two nations that produce the kind of heavy oil the world needs.
00:03:56.440So I think we just, the worry that I have is the freelancing that we see on the extreme voices in the Liberal caucus, and I don't think we have a very clear idea of whether or not there has been a pivot and a change of direction.
00:04:09.620I want to see action, not talk, and the talk I'm hearing so far is not encouraging.
00:04:13.360Okay. Independence has moved center stage in Alberta and increasingly Saskatchewan.
00:04:20.040Polling shows that the left in Alberta is almost entirely federalist. On the other side,
00:04:25.680a strong majority of conservatives here would vote for independence, but with a still sizable
00:04:31.120minority of your party supporters remaining federalists. You've tried to make the UCP open
00:04:37.500to both nationalists and federalists alike, with you positioning yourself somewhere in the middle,
00:04:42.740And so far that's held together. But as an independence referendum becomes more of a certainty in 2026, how confident are you that you can keep these two warring camps inside of the same party and remain neutral yourself?
00:04:57.420Well, the way parties work is that it's a compromise. You pass policy on things that you can agree with and you are silent on things that you don't agree on. There's all kinds of things that we don't have in our policy book.
00:05:08.940And I think that the citizen-initiated referenda process is one mechanism to be able to allow for citizens to identify issues that matter and put them to a general vote of the electorate.
00:05:20.220And so I'm watching those movements along with everyone else and acknowledging them is not the same as endorsing them.
00:05:27.580I think we just have to accept the reality here that there's some really angry and upset Albertans who don't think that there has been a change at the federal level,
00:05:34.520which is why I think the prime minister only has a limited window here to demonstrate a true pivot.
00:05:39.560What I would hope to see is that I've identified nine pieces of legislation that need to be repealed or substantially revised
00:05:47.060in order to send the message that there is a new restart in the relationship with Alberta
00:05:54.240and also to pave the way for some of the economic corridors and the construction of pipelines.
00:06:00.800So you cannot establish an economic corridor to part of Prince Rupert if you're not prepared to amend C-69 to build the pipeline so that it's not a 10-year approval process.
00:06:13.300If you get a bitumen pipeline going to Prince Rupert, you have to repeal the tanker ban because otherwise you're not able to load it onto a ship.
00:06:20.600You cannot have a production cap, which is what an emissions cap is.
00:06:25.360Otherwise, there's going to be no one with the incentive to invest to expand the production in order to fill those pipelines.
00:06:30.800And you also can't continue to punish the industry who wants to develop by by restricting the amount of of low cost power they're going to have because you've got unrealistic net power regulation.
00:06:42.560So every single thing I've asked for is in aid of demonstrating that the federal government wants to help us get our product to market, help us find new markets.
00:06:51.980And so I would I would look at that as a measure of good faith that they're willing to work with us.
00:06:55.900haven't seen it yet but you know the week is still young we've only just seen a the cabinet
00:07:00.460approved i should i should mention that i am hearing very positive words about the new energy
00:07:06.700and natural resources minister tim hodgson um i've talked to many members of the industry
00:07:11.820who are very encouraged that he seems to be the senior minister in that in that um uh in that
00:07:17.900cabinet and i i gather he also was instrumental in helping to finance the alliance pipeline
00:07:23.740at one point in the past with his work at Goldman Sachs and other entities.
00:07:27.660And so that's the yin and yang that we're seeing here.
00:07:30.460We've got, as I've often said, we've got two different prime ministers.
00:07:34.060We've got the banker who worked for conservative governments and as a pragmatist.
00:07:37.980And we've got the guy who wrote the book Values,
00:07:40.980which talked about keeping it in the ground and moving to net zero
00:07:43.420and de-insuring and de-banking the oil and gas industry.
00:07:46.300And I'm still not quite sure which prime minister we've got.
00:07:49.660So, Premier, those are the things that conservatives,
00:07:52.220even beyond conservatives most Albertans broadly agree on uh you know we've both sat in caucuses
00:07:58.380we've both been to party conventions we know that what grabs attention though is the part that we
00:08:02.420don't agree on and and that's that's where the friction comes uh I would personally be a bit
00:08:08.960surprised if the independence issue did not find its way onto the floor of your party's next
00:08:15.020convention um and and the members take a side i have to take a side on that uh it the polling
00:08:23.420that's available is not among party members but among you know ucp voters generally and and that
00:08:29.220shows a fairly broad support for independence among ucp voters in alberta um so i gotta maybe
00:08:36.320just to restate the last question uh you know if i i find it difficult to see how right now it's
00:08:43.940just the process in the hands of Albertans and the Citizens Initiative legislation. And that is
00:08:48.700a neutral process, I get. But I think it's highly probable that the independence issue is going to
00:08:58.100be on the floor of the next convention of your party. I'm sure, I know you can't discuss internal
00:09:02.080caucus meetings, but I'm sure it's been an issue. If this comes to the floor of your party's next
00:09:10.060convention though isn't it going to potentially force the party itself to take a side in the
00:09:19.160referendum as that's going on well I hope it doesn't because I think it's um it would be a
00:09:24.100violation of the of the agreement that our two parties had when we came together I've looked at
00:09:28.640the founding documents and I've talked to the the drafters of those founding documents and it was a
00:09:33.500pretty clear compromise to have the PCs and the Wildrose come together to say that we would be
00:09:38.220fighting for constitutional sovereignty within a united Canada. And so that is why I think that
00:09:43.600that is just a foundational principle of what the United Conservatives are all about, and why these
00:09:48.220kinds of issues really need to be put to the general electorate. Because you can't have four
00:09:53.140or five hundred people coming to a party conference deciding on behalf of five million Albertans.
00:09:57.540There are certain issues that are so important, they've got to be put to the general public.
00:10:01.160That's the case I'm making to our members. It's a case I'm making to our board. And I think it is
00:10:05.940That is what the foundational principles of our party are. And so that's why as leader, I'm taking that seriously. It's why I believe it's my job to fight for a new deal for Alberta within Canada and to make sure that we take every measure possible to protect our constitutional sovereignty as defined under the Constitution. I've been doing that since the minute I got elected, and I'm going to keep on doing that.
00:10:28.160I actually remember during the negotiations, that particular clause was put forward by Jason Kenney. And many of us on the Wild Rose side, we kind of bristled at it. But then he said, well, what's your argument with him? We couldn't really say out loud why we might have had a problem with that clause of it. But I take your point.
00:10:48.180With your appointment of Nathan Cooper as Alberta's representative to Washington, a by-election is going to be held in Olds-Disbury-Three Hills.
00:10:57.780As you're very well aware, that constituency elected a nationalist in 1982 in a by-election.
00:11:58.320just how poorly Alberta has been treated.
00:12:00.220And now we see all of the premiers across the country, no matter what party they're from, saying we need to build having an entire election fought around the issue of who had more credibility to build more projects that that is because of the work that we've done under the UCP.
00:12:19.240Assuming a candidate were to pass all the regular vetting issues, you know, bankruptcy hasn't said anything particularly wild and outrageous.
00:12:30.080You know, do you expect that the party would or should clear someone to contest the nomination in that constituency who is openly on the yes side of the coming if independence referendum?
00:12:43.620Well, I want to hold all three by-elections together.
00:12:45.740So I did indicate to the board and to the local riding president that I would be making an appointment there.
00:12:51.440As you know, under our constitution, I have the power to do that for four appointments.
00:12:55.360And so I've done my vetting over the weekend and we'll be announcing our candidate there later this afternoon.
00:13:00.680Oh, well, all right. Well, we're going to stand by for that news.
00:13:07.100The day after the Liberals were returned to power, you said, as Premier, I will not permit the status quo to continue.
00:13:15.060If the status quo, I know you're going to say you don't want the status quo to continue and you're going to fight for it not to. So I want to preempt that part. If the status quo does in fact continue and sufficient progress on your demands is not made, is there a point at which you would lead the independence movement?
00:13:35.700No, I would say that that's a conversation for Albertans to lead and Albertans to have. And I trust the judgment of Albertans. So I'm watching that process play out. I think my job is to find every mechanism I can to make sure that Alberta has the ability to operate under the rules that the Constitution says.
00:13:53.640One of the things that we have been looking at actively is if the federal government is going to abuse their criminal law power, which they have been, part of the reason why they have asserted the ability to regulate carbon dioxide and plastics and anything else they would wish to firearms is because of a misapplication, in my view, of the criminal law power.
00:14:13.760I have no problem with the federal government taking action against the criminal use of firearms or criminal actions, but to try to make people criminals by just saying it's a criminal law of power, I think that's an abuse.
00:14:27.420And I recently read a paper on the Canley website from 2018 saying the province's choice to not enforce laws that are a violation of their rights is a legitimate balance on the federal power.
00:14:44.200And so if we can't come to agreements on certain things, you've already seen that that's the direction that we're going.
00:14:49.700You want to put an emissions cap? Sorry, we're going to own the emissions data.
00:14:53.980You think you're going to come onto properties
00:14:55.720and tell them that they've got a fork over the data?
00:14:58.180No, we're going to declare them critical infrastructure.
00:15:00.780You're going to direct law enforcement
00:15:50.740Are we going to let them continue to pretend that the Constitution says something it doesn't say?
00:15:57.680So in 2026, through Citizens Initiative, Albertans are very likely to vote in a referendum to decide if they will declare independence.
00:16:06.920I know the first thing you learn in politics is don't answer a hypothetical, but I don't think it's a particularly hypothetical to consider a potential yes vote.
00:16:16.840Right now, the polls show, if there's a vote today, no would win.
00:16:21.380But campaigns have a way of changing things.
00:16:24.180The Charlottetown Accord was supposed to be a sure thing.
00:16:26.220The entire establishment of Canada and all of the major parties in the House of Commons
00:17:03.140I'm just letting you. Well, you're jumping ahead. You're presuming my failure at that.
00:17:07.840And I'm very optimistic that I'm going to be able to succeed.
00:17:11.540But the question I would have for Albertans is what are the issues that we need to make progress on to make them feel comfortable that Canada finally respects Alberta and is on Team Alberta?
00:17:24.580That's part of the reason why I'm going to be doing a consultation over the next six months.
00:17:27.980I want to find out what the real pressure points are.
00:17:30.520I suspect I know a lot of them, but I don't know that I know all of them.
00:17:34.220And so I don't want to prejudge what I'm hearing from Albertans.
00:17:36.860You can maybe ask me that question in six months once my Alberta next panel is finished.