Western Standard - Death to the Carbon Tax, Long Live the Buffalo! - The Pipeline, Episode 10

00:00:00.000 You're listening to The Pipeline, the Western Standards National Affairs program recording this

00:00:15.940 Wednesday, February 26, 2020. Each week we break down the issues, discuss them in depth,

00:00:22.660 and examine some of the broader implications for Western Canada and beyond, featuring from Calgary,

00:00:29.580 the Western Standards publisher, Derek Fildebrandt. Derek, how are you today?

00:00:34.480 Aloha, I'm good.

00:00:35.920 Great. And Dave Naylor from Calgary, our news editor. Looks like you're in Abbotsford still, Dave?

00:00:43.900 Yep, still stuck in Drury, Abbotsford, so this is the highlight of my week, Paul.

00:00:48.360 Fantastic. And hosted by myself, digital editor Paul Holmes from Victoria, British Columbia.

00:00:53.980 Before we get the show underway today, I just want to let people know we are very close to our February

00:00:59.280 membership goal. So to all of you who've signed up this month, and of course every month,

00:01:05.080 thank you for becoming a member of the Western Standard. If you haven't done it yet, please

00:01:09.500 visit our website at westernstandardonline.com, and you can become a member today and watch for

00:01:16.340 some interesting perks that will be coming down the pipeline for members. Also, we have a new-ish

00:01:21.360 YouTube channel, and we'd really love to get some more subscribers over there, so please go

00:01:26.060 subscribe. You can get all of this content on YouTube as well. And for topics today, we're going

00:01:33.900 to be talking about the carbon tax, the latest developments there. We're going to be talking

00:01:39.520 about the tech debacle, and I think that there's probably 12 layers we could go into there, so

00:01:47.260 that'll probably be the bulk of the show today. And then, of course, we're going to talk about

00:01:51.560 the Buffalo Declaration and the impact that that has had. So where do we want to start?

00:01:57.320 Derek, good news or bad news?

00:01:58.900 Let's do good news first.

00:02:01.720 Good news. Okay. On the good news front, I think we will start with the carbon tax then.

00:02:09.400 Dave, why don't you let us know the details of that ruling that came down in Alberta this week?

00:02:16.200 Well, it was a rare victory for Alberta in the courts against Ottawa, Paul. It was a four-to-one

00:02:22.500 victory that said the federal carbon tax was unconstitutional. Basically called it a Trojan

00:02:32.700 horse, quote-unquote, for getting taxes out. And so now it goes to the Supreme Court, and that'll

00:02:38.740 be the last step to see whether or not it's still going to be around our next year.

00:02:43.000 And as I understand, are there other lower court cases that are still to be decided as

00:02:51.700 well? Like, was it not being challenged in a few different courts in Canada?

00:02:55.000 Yeah, for the most part, all their court rulings were for the government. This is the first time

00:03:02.440 we've actually had one that's come out against the government, and it was strong. I mean, it

00:03:07.000 was not unanimous, but four-to-one is a pretty good victory. So the Supreme Court ruling is going

00:03:12.000 to be very interesting.

00:03:13.000 And that, yeah, and if I understand correctly, the verbiage used by the judges in the case

00:03:22.200 was quite strong. Essentially, if you care about the Constitution and the division of powers

00:03:30.800 in the country, then this is how this has to stand. Am I kind of in the right ballpark

00:03:37.800 there?

00:03:38.800 That's exactly fair, Paul. The quote I liked the best was, it was being used as a Trojan

00:03:45.080 horse to sort of get inside Alberta and reap their tax benefit that way. So you're very

00:03:51.800 correct. A very strongly worded ruling by the judges.

00:03:56.800 And Derek, before the show, you characterized this as good news. Do you think this is going

00:04:01.800 to remain good news as it moves up the courts to the next level?

00:04:06.800 It's impossible to say. So this is the third major court ruling on the constitutionality

00:04:12.800 of the carbon tax. Ontario's challenged it and lost. Saskatchewan challenged it and lost.

00:04:18.800 Other provinces that have been challenging it have done so as interveners, not directly

00:04:22.800 with their own cases. But none of these cases have been unanimous. In cases where the federal

00:04:29.800 government has won in Ontario and Saskatchewan, there's been significant dissenting opinions.

00:04:33.800 In Alberta's case, it was the closest there was to a unanimous case. And it was on the

00:04:38.800 other side where a provincial government won against the federal government. It's, I don't

00:04:47.800 have the exact count, but I've read the count of the number of justices ruling. If you make

00:04:52.800 this a kind of almost a hockey series, you know, it would be one to two. But if you actually

00:04:57.800 go by points where I think it's like 10 to 11, if you go by the number of justices ruling,

00:05:02.800 in favour of the provinces against the federal government, it's inevitably now going to go to

00:05:09.800 the Supreme Court. It's not yet known if it's going to go there as one big case, all three

00:05:14.800 provinces challenging in one case, or if it's going to get there in bits and pieces. The three

00:05:19.800 court challenges are different. They've had different arguments used. Obviously, Alberta's 1.00

00:05:24.800 has had more success than the other two. But it's ultimately going to be decided at the Supreme Court, a

00:05:30.800 majority of the justices there are appointed by Stephen Harper. And there were, I think there's

00:05:36.800 at least one still there from Mulroney. But despite a majority of the Supreme Court being appointed by

00:05:40.800 conservative prime ministers, the Supreme Court has made a lot of really funny rulings. I don't have

00:05:46.800 particularly much faith in it as a sort of strict constructivist judicial doctrine. They've very

00:05:56.800 often favoured ruled as constitutional a lot of policies that very clearly go against the Constitution,

00:06:04.800 both in its spirit and its letter. This is the same Supreme Court that ruled that it was fine for the province of New

00:06:11.800 Brunswick to charge people for moving beer across provincial borders. So I'm not, I'm not saying this

00:06:17.800 one's in the bag, but clearly the decision here in the court in Alberta was really the first victory we've

00:06:27.800 seen and should kind of wipe some of the smug smirk off the faces of people who say that Alberta is wasting 1.00

00:06:35.800 its time and money and challenging this. Well, and you know, we see in the United States a lot with the Supreme Court

00:06:43.800 there that oftentimes rulings come down based on the appointments, you know, the judges that were appointed by

00:06:50.800 Republicans coming down one side of the issue and the Republican or the Democrats appointed. Did we see

00:06:57.800 that in the lower courts as well this time? Or is that something that most people just don't pay that

00:07:02.800 much attention to that we would even...

00:07:04.800 I'm actually not, I don't know the composition of the lower courts here and who's from appointed by what parties.

00:07:10.800 They're often very politically loaded. It is often a way of, and I don't want to cast aspersions on our judges

00:07:16.800 here, but it is a very often a political reward for service in the legal profession to people that allies of political parties.

00:07:24.800 It happens fairly often. Not to say they're not good justices, but it's something that happens.

00:07:30.800 And it happens in the United States as well.

00:07:33.800 Federally, I'm more familiar with the composition of the court.

00:07:36.800 Our Supreme Court comes a lot less, comes down a lot less along partisan lines of the American Supreme Court.

00:07:42.800 The American Supreme Court is very predictable about what side it's going to come down on depending on

00:07:47.800 what party's president appointed someone, at least lately. A lot of Nixon appointees would often side with Democratic appointments,

00:07:55.800 but Nixon was not a particularly traditional conservative.

00:07:58.800 Sure.

00:07:59.800 But in the Canadian case here, the Supreme Court has some partisan divisions, but it generally comes down on the side that's wrong.

00:08:09.800 All right. Any other thoughts on on where this is going, Dave?

00:08:15.800 Well, I think it's March Supreme Court. As Derek said, the federal lawyers probably got a bit of a shock with the Alberta ruling,

00:08:23.800 and they're no doubt trying to get their game back up. And it's going to be very interesting.

00:08:29.800 And I think there's just no guessing as to what this court is going to do.

00:08:34.800 The Supreme Court.

00:08:36.800 We should actually also point out this will be a bit of a segue before we discuss the tech frontier mine.

00:08:41.800 But Ottawa was making all sorts of demands of Alberta to try and finagle us into essentially adopting NDP and liberal policies

00:08:52.800 in exchange for getting tech approved.

00:08:55.800 One of those conditions mentioned by liberal cabinet ministers federally was that Alberta needs to drop its its court challenge against the carbon tax.

00:09:06.800 Now, Alberta, though, and by Jason Kenney's own admission, had actually given way, in my view, capitulated to Ottawa on nearly every single front on legislated.

00:09:18.800 And we'll actually save most of this for the tech discussion.

00:09:22.800 But one of the conditions was that Alberta stop challenging this in court.

00:09:27.800 That's something obviously that Alberta couldn't do. 1.00

00:09:29.800 They were prepared to give them a heck of a lot, virtually everything, except for this.

00:09:34.800 And they must have known that because the case had already been done.

00:09:37.800 They must have felt very good that it was going to go in their favor.

00:09:39.800 But also Ottawa, we see this after the fact, was telling Alberta to give up a court case that had already won.

00:09:48.800 Just didn't know it yet in exchange for getting something that the liberals were going to kill anyway.

00:09:53.800 Yeah.

00:09:54.800 We may as well dive right into tech.

00:09:57.800 I think the only other point I would make around the this carbon tax ruling is, you know, with the three different provinces and three different cases,

00:10:04.800 the Supreme Court typically will push back and say, you know, hey, guys, come get together.

00:10:10.800 We're going to do this once.

00:10:12.800 They're not they're not likely to hear three cases on essentially the same topic.

00:10:17.800 Right.

00:10:18.800 Even if they're all a little nuanced and a little different.

00:10:20.800 What do you think, Dave?

00:10:21.800 Do you think that's that's the way this is going to go down in the end?

00:10:24.800 Oh, yeah, I think they'll just do it as one.

00:10:27.800 No point, you know, spreading it out any longer than they have to.

00:10:31.800 Let's get everybody in.

00:10:32.800 Let's share your arguments and let's get a ruling and let's get on with it.

00:10:35.800 So we were all waiting with bated breath for the future of the Federation at stake around the tech mine approval.

00:10:48.800 The lots of commentary coming from the various ministers in the Liberal government.

00:10:56.800 And and then suddenly before the ruling came down from the cabinet, tech pulls their application after spending significant sum of money trying to get this thing off the ground.

00:11:11.800 After and just a few weeks earlier, they were talking about the long term viability of the project being very good. Dave, help us out here.

00:11:21.800 What on earth went down and and and then maybe we can all speculate on on why?

00:11:27.800 Well, I think it was ironic that we were all just sitting down to watch the season premiere of The Walking Dead when Sunday night we get word that the tech people had pulled the plug on the mine.

00:11:40.800 Uh, 10 years and 1.3 billion dollars they've invested in it all and to try and get it up to this stage.

00:11:48.800 Uh, it's been sitting on the Prime Minister Trudeau's desk since July.

00:11:53.800 All the indigenous bands around it supported it and being through numerous government checks, they all supported it.

00:11:59.800 Uh, but the Liberal government was in a tough way because, uh, all of their MPs did not want to support it and they were getting pressure from, uh, environmentalists.

00:12:10.800 So must have come as a great relief to them Sunday night when tech said enough's enough.

00:12:15.800 Uh, we're pulling the plug citing all sorts of problems from railway, uh, disruptions to the political landscape in Canada now.

00:12:26.800 So, uh, the company doing this took a big, uh, big amount of pressure off the Trudeau government.

00:12:32.800 Well, and, and, uh, Derek, I don't know if you care to speculate, but you know, it seems like, it seems like you couldn't have given a nicer gift to Justin Trudeau, uh, as the CEO of this company.

00:12:47.800 Um, you know, I, I imagine the shareholders just can't be super happy about it.

00:12:54.800 Uh, but you know, I'll let you go.

00:12:56.800 You go, you go, man.

00:12:57.800 I will go.

00:12:58.800 Um, no, this, uh, yeah.

00:13:01.800 Uh, as you both said, this obviously takes, uh, the sort of Damocles, uh, off from hanging over the liberals heads on this.

00:13:09.800 On the one hand they had, uh, at least what the mainstream media sees is their credibility on the environment at stake.

00:13:15.800 If they approved it or, uh, on the other side, uh, firing the first cannons civil war, if, uh, if they killed it.

00:13:25.800 Um, and so, so tech has taken it off.

00:13:28.800 But what happened here is, uh, exactly, uh, what I had predicted in the column, uh, February 6th.

00:13:34.800 Uh, titled, uh, if, uh, Trudeau kills tech, it's war.

00:13:39.800 And it is war, I think, cause the liberals did kill tech, but they killed it in a very liberal way of doing it.

00:13:44.800 The liberals, uh, as much as they might be a very clear progressive left party.

00:13:49.800 They, they like to view themselves as still kind of in the middle, barely center left, balancing all things.

00:13:56.800 They're the reasonable people who will hear out both sides.

00:13:58.800 That's sort of, that's kind of their brand, even if it's not entirely true.

00:14:02.800 And they did not want to be seen to be killing this.

00:14:05.800 They have, they had nothing to lose, uh, politically in the West.

00:14:09.800 They have no seats between Vancouver and Winnipeg, but, uh, the backlash would have been very great.

00:14:16.800 And maybe for once in our history, uh, at least some people in other parts of Canada would have said, we don't like you picking on Alberta that much.

00:14:25.800 At least, you know, rural parts of Ontario and Atlantic that, uh, that are not necessarily a part of that Laurentian consensus that the liberals and many Tories rely upon.

00:14:34.800 Uh, but what happened is exactly what, uh, what myself and some other columnists that predicted, which is, uh, the liberals are going to send all, all the signals that this is not going to get approved.

00:14:46.800 Probably behind the scenes were pretty clear to tech that this is not going to happen and allow tech to save face because if the liberals had said no to this, forget the political ramifications.

00:14:57.800 Uh, just the effects for tech would have been a crash in their stock prices.

00:15:00.800 They've invested a huge amount of time and, uh, money into this, as you've already said.

00:15:05.800 Uh, so that's sort of a huge hit to their stock.

00:15:08.800 They look like they're not in control by withdrawing their application themselves before the liberals can decline it.

00:15:14.800 They keep the possibility of retabling this application at a future date.

00:15:18.800 If there's a different federal government that might be more open to it.

00:15:21.800 Uh, but this is the equivalent of someone saying, you can't fire me.

00:15:24.800 I quit. That's what, that's what happened here.

00:15:27.800 But we knew very much that they were going to fire tech from having the chance to do this.

00:15:31.800 And, you know, at what point are Albertans and Westerners more broadly going to say, this is not just another kick in the shin.

00:15:42.800 You know, we don't like it, but you know, we'll just vote for someone else next time.

00:15:46.800 We'll vote even more conservative next time.

00:15:48.800 I mean, like, I'm not sure how many times we can, we can say we're going to vote even more conservative to get our way.

00:15:53.800 And that doing nothing.

00:15:55.800 Um, this is, you know, as I wrote after this happened, uh, Ottawa is, should be treated as a for as a hostile colonial power.

00:16:05.800 That is a war with Alberta and we need to treat them as such.

00:16:08.800 And you're invoking of the word colonial was welcomed by all as I understand on Twitter.

00:16:15.800 Yes.

00:16:16.800 Many of the, uh, many of our, uh, liberal friends afflicted with white guilt, um, really don't like us using that term.

00:16:26.800 They think that should only apply in the context of indigenous issues where none of us have any legitimate right to be here.

00:16:31.800 Um, but I think it's, I think it's quite appropriate.

00:16:35.800 Uh, we have, we do not have, uh, proportion to our population representation in Ottawa.

00:16:41.800 So we have taxation without representation, not, not as bad as perhaps as, uh, it was at the time of the Boston Tea Party.

00:16:47.800 But we have taxation without representation and we've got a government in Ottawa that sees it as its duty to, uh, strangle, uh, maybe not shut down overnight, but to strangle out our industry in the name of, uh, Greta Thunberg and saving the planet. 0.66

00:17:04.800 Well, I, for one, uh, when I saw your tweet, Derek, I, I immediately went and made some popcorn and, uh, inevitable, uh, Twitter war to, uh, it's been a while.

00:17:16.800 It's been a while since I've seen that.

00:17:17.800 So that, so that's off for you, uh, um, flaming the, the haters.

00:17:24.800 It's a gift.

00:17:25.800 It's a gift.

00:17:26.800 Um, anyway, back on track, uh, tech itself.

00:17:30.800 Dave, you mentioned, you know, invested in quotes, I suppose 1.3 billion dollars, just trying to get this thing to this point.

00:17:40.800 Uh, and was prepared as I understand to invest an additional, I think it was like $10 billion over the next decade.

00:17:48.800 Do you remember the numbers?

00:17:49.800 Is it 20 billion?

00:17:50.800 Yeah.

00:17:51.800 20 billion.

00:17:52.800 I'm not sure if 20, the number that's out there is 20.

00:17:55.800 I'm not sure if that's additional or, uh, gross, including, uh, what's already been sunk.

00:17:59.800 And, and of course, uh, 7,000 high paying construction jobs.

00:18:05.800 If my, again, if my numbers are right, um, you know, just a significant, significant amount of investment that would have, you know, affected the Alberta GDP.

00:18:15.800 I think, I think the number I heard was that, um, about 1% of Canadian GDP.

00:18:20.800 Uh, and so whatever that breaks down to, from an Alberta perspective, this is a real kick to the knees for Alberta. 0.79

00:18:26.800 Uh, the way this has gone down.

00:18:28.800 Um, how is this, uh, you know, for those who live, who are living under a rock and don't tune in daily to the Western standard.

00:18:34.800 How is this, uh, playing out, uh, uh, in Alberta?

00:18:38.800 Well, uh, as you can imagine, it's, it's gone over like a lead balloon.

00:18:43.800 Uh, interestingly though, the very next day, uh, premier Kenny came out and said, he invoked the law heat era and said, you know what?

00:18:52.800 We are now going to get back in the business of being in business, which scared the hell out of a lot of people because government doesn't do a very good job normally when they are in business.

00:19:03.800 So Kenny didn't even rule out buying the tech lease from them and operating the pipeline or the, the mind getting it going that way.

00:19:12.800 So, uh, he said, there's, there's Alberta money is coming into the energy sector.

00:19:17.800 So we've just got to wait and see what it's going to be.

00:19:20.800 He says they're looking at anything and everything to buy.

00:19:24.800 Uh, so that's a huge turnaround on the government policy.

00:19:29.800 Well, that's, uh, it's worked out pretty well for Venezuela, as I understand.

00:19:35.800 Well, look, the reactions provincially have been bizarre here.

00:19:38.800 Uh, Rachel Notley's was the most bizarre.

00:19:41.800 She said the entire thing is Jason Kenney's fault for not, uh, being nice enough to Justin Trudeau.

00:19:47.800 I saw that. 0.98

00:19:48.800 I mean, I mean that we got to call bullshit on that one. 0.99

00:19:50.800 I mean, it's the job of opposition leaders to be a pain in the butt of the government, but it should be at least somewhat plausible. 0.99

00:19:57.800 Um, under Rachel Notley's watch, we saw Keystone XL killed. 0.92

00:20:02.800 We saw Energy East kill, killed.

00:20:04.800 We saw Northern gateway killed.

00:20:06.800 We saw, uh, Alberta turnover on its back to show its belly over the carbon tax.

00:20:11.800 I mean, we, we tried that approach and what did it get Alberta?

00:20:14.800 Absolutely nothing.

00:20:15.800 Jason Kenney screwed Rachel Notley whenever it suited him.

00:20:18.800 Um, you know, Jason Kenney's approach. 0.95

00:20:20.800 Justin, Justin Trudeau screwed. 0.92

00:20:21.800 Oh, sorry. 0.99

00:20:22.800 Yes.

00:20:23.800 Yes.

00:20:24.800 Justin Trudeau did.

00:20:25.800 Yeah.

00:20:26.800 No, I think you're right.

00:20:27.800 And in fact, if anything, uh, you know, again, an outsider from British Columbia, I think,

00:20:30.800 um, you know, Rachel Notley appeared to be a very vocal advocate for all those projects

00:20:36.800 you just mentioned, uh, with the exception of the carbon tax, which was a little bit of

00:20:40.800 a different animal, but, uh, actually Rachel Notley opposed, uh, the Keystone XL pipeline,

00:20:45.800 Northern gateway and Energy East.

00:20:47.800 She, she opposed them just not, not vigorously, but she opposed them all in opposition and they

00:20:51.800 were killed swiftly once she became premier because they knew there'd be no one to speak

00:20:54.800 up against it.

00:20:55.800 Oh, interesting.

00:20:56.800 Uh, so, but Jason Kenney, he's obviously has a very different rhetorical line than, uh,

00:21:02.800 than, uh, than Rachel Notley.

00:21:04.800 He, he doesn't see himself as Ottawa's, uh, re you know, governor satrap representing Ottawa

00:21:11.800 and Alberta.

00:21:12.800 He doesn't see himself that way, but, uh, but he is still a pretty ardent federalist and

00:21:16.800 his language was very careful not to inflame the situation.

00:21:20.800 Um, well, they obviously wanted tech to get built, uh, and they laid the blame at the federal

00:21:25.800 government's feet.

00:21:26.800 He did not mention Justin Trudeau once by name in his statement or in any of his, uh, subsequent

00:21:31.800 press conferences after, uh, those who are here in the provincial election will know

00:21:35.800 that, um, he would repeat Justin Trudeau's name about five or 10 times a day in the same

00:21:40.800 sentences, Rachel Notley as her good friend and ally quote unquote copyright.

00:21:44.800 And, uh, he was very careful not to inflame anger at tech their anger.

00:21:50.800 They are, you know, they reflect its disappointment and a little bit of anger and put it on Ottawa.

00:21:55.800 They didn't want to inflame it too much because they know that things are really, uh, at a potential

00:22:00.800 boiling point here.

00:22:01.800 Uh, and they didn't want to put it over the top.

00:22:04.800 I, I thought that, uh, if Kenny is at all to blame here, it's for taking much too weak

00:22:10.800 a position.

00:22:11.800 Uh, he never drew a line in the sand with Ottawa saying, if you do this, there's going

00:22:15.800 to be consequences.

00:22:16.800 He just says, Ottawa needs to do this.

00:22:18.800 It's appropriate.

00:22:19.800 Don't pick on us.

00:22:20.800 Uh, and that's better than what Rachel Notley would have said, of course.

00:22:23.800 Uh, he never said that there's going to be a significantly greater consequence if Ottawa

00:22:28.800 does this.

00:22:29.800 Like, I don't know, maybe we should shut off the rails of, uh, oil shipments to Ottawa.

00:22:34.800 That might be nice.

00:22:35.800 The, uh, tech is based of course in Vancouver.

00:22:40.800 And so we had this unique situation where you had a van, you had a Canadian company investing

00:22:46.800 a massive sum of money in Canada for an energy project.

00:22:50.800 Uh, now of course they'll move those resources to much kinder, more stable places in the world

00:22:56.800 like South America and God only knows, uh, where else.

00:23:00.800 Um, what is this, you know, what are we just done with energy development in this country?

00:23:06.800 Like, can we just never do a project, a major project again?

00:23:09.800 Is that where we're at?

00:23:11.800 Well, why would you, why would you go through all that hassle and money and, you know, just

00:23:19.800 to have it sit there?

00:23:20.800 Why would you spend that billion dollars?

00:23:22.800 Uh, you know, at the, at the end of the day though, Paul, they thought there was money

00:23:26.800 to be made there.

00:23:27.800 Sure.

00:23:28.800 And, uh, they were going to go ahead with it and they just got tired and fed up and,

00:23:33.800 and, and pull the plug. 0.99

00:23:35.800 At the end of the day, they thought they could make that mine financially profitable.

00:23:40.800 So there's money to be made there as premier Kennedy keeps, Kenny keeps pointing out.

00:23:45.800 The rise for oil is going to continue.

00:23:47.800 The demand for oil is going to keep rising, but would any Canadian company want to invest

00:23:53.800 in Canada?

00:23:54.800 I can't see it.

00:23:55.800 You know, I've, I've long considered myself, um, a, I suppose, um, soft environmentalist.

00:24:03.800 Uh, you know, we, I am concerned about the environment.

00:24:07.800 I am concerned about, uh, climate change.

00:24:10.800 Um, you know, Canada does play a role in all of that.

00:24:13.800 Uh, but you know, you kind of look at the consequence of something like this and you think,

00:24:17.800 okay, great.

00:24:18.800 So the same amount of money is going to be invested somewhere else, uh, except without

00:24:23.800 the environmental regulations, without, you know, the labor standards, uh, without any

00:24:29.800 economic benefit to, to Canada itself.

00:24:31.800 I, it's just, it just strikes me as just, uh, not, not holistically thought through.

00:24:37.800 And, uh, you know, can we, we, we can't just jump tomorrow to a zero carbon economy and not

00:24:44.800 expect there to be a massive economic, um, impact.

00:24:49.800 And, uh, and so, you know, if we, if we're going to move in that direction, it has to be

00:24:53.800 very thoughtful.

00:24:54.800 And, uh, I, I feel like that's been completely lost, big opportunity lost on this.

00:24:59.800 Uh, and that's, you know, again, for an outsider being from British Columbia, the headquarters

00:25:04.800 of tech, but, um, you know, uh, obviously, uh, the impact to Alberta is massive in this case.

00:25:11.800 Speaking of Alberta, let's move along to, uh, the Buffalo declaration, uh, kind of went

00:25:17.800 under the, uh, under the radar a bit in the mainstream media.

00:25:21.800 Uh, Dave, why don't you lay it out for us and, uh, tell us a little bit about, uh, this

00:25:27.800 Buffalo declaration.

00:25:29.800 Buffalo declaration is, uh, uh, manifesto for lack of a better word of four Alberta MPs,

00:25:38.800 conservative MPs led by Michelle Rumpel Gardner, who obviously spent a lot of time on this cause

00:25:43.800 it's very detailed, very thoughtful.

00:25:45.800 Uh, it's basically what they want out of Confederation, what Alberta wants out of Confederation.

00:25:53.800 Uh, I think it was Derek who called it the most important, uh, document since, uh, uh, the

00:25:58.800 Parti Quebecois, uh, back in the 19, uh, 1980s.

00:26:03.800 Uh, you're right.

00:26:04.800 It did sort of go under the radar.

00:26:06.800 Uh, didn't get much pickup down East.

00:26:09.800 Uh, there was a lot of, uh, sort of pushback, even amongst like people like Mayor Nenshi of

00:26:14.800 Calgary, uh, sort of said, told these, uh, these people to calm down and, uh, uh, uh,

00:26:20.800 you know, it kind of flew under the weather.

00:26:23.800 If, uh, any one of us would have told a female MP to, to calm down, it would have, uh, it would 0.99

00:26:28.800 have caused a bit of a storm, but, uh, Mayor Nenshi seems to be able to get away with doing

00:26:33.800 stuff like that.

00:26:34.800 So what it has done, you know, brought it up to the forefront again at a time where it needs

00:26:38.800 to be, uh, needs to be mentioned, uh, through, you know, law, you know, it was like a grenade

00:26:43.800 landing in the middle of the Tory leadership, uh, race.

00:26:46.800 Uh, they've all got to deal with that now.

00:26:48.800 So, uh, uh, you know, I urge, uh, I urge everybody to go to the, the Western standard site and, uh,

00:26:54.800 and read it for yourself because it is, uh, it is quite the piece.

00:26:57.800 Get yourself a cup of coffee first and give yourself, uh, 15 minutes or so.

00:27:03.800 Uh, if you're a fast reader or if you're a slow reader like me, give yourself 25.

00:27:07.800 Uh, I got through the whole, whole thing.

00:27:10.800 It.

00:27:11.800 Sorry.

00:27:12.800 No pictures in it either.

00:27:13.800 No pictures.

00:27:14.800 And you both know how much I love pictures.

00:27:18.800 Um, especially in it when I read, um, you know, it's, it's a, it's a very meaty document.

00:27:25.800 There's a, obviously a lot of thought went into that.

00:27:29.800 Um, and, uh, landed at a very interesting time in Canadian history.

00:27:34.800 Uh, Derek, where do we go from here?

00:27:37.800 Where, what do you, what do you think is happening with this document?

00:27:40.800 Well, if I had written it, I would have made it a pop up book, but, uh, you know, I, I, I try to add a little flair to, uh, to what I write, but, um, no, it was a very, very important document.

00:27:51.800 Um, I actually have to take, uh, issue with, uh, you know, what you guys have said.

00:27:56.800 I, it actually, I think did, uh, punch through into Eastern Canadian and mainstream media.

00:28:01.800 Now we had the exclusive here on the Western standard.

00:28:04.800 Uh, we, we've striven since the very first day we launched the Western standard in late October last year to be the kind of the place where these conversations about the West place in Canada or outside of Canada, uh, takes place.

00:28:17.800 And, uh, so we were privileged to have the exclusive first edition of it.

00:28:22.800 And, uh, and so we have people across the country reading, reading it on the Western standard, but it very quickly, uh, did actually catch into the mainstream media.

00:28:30.800 This has been, um, it forced the Tory leadership candidates to respond to it.

00:28:34.800 Um, and, and conservatives across the country, you had the Toronto star calling it a wing nutty.

00:28:40.800 You had Andrew Scheer acknowledging it existed, but not commenting if you will support it or not.

00:28:46.800 They had, uh, Jason Kenney was repeatedly asked about it.

00:28:49.800 Uh, he would not commit to it.

00:28:50.800 He would just say about the different things he's doing for Alberta, but wouldn't commit to supporting it or not.

00:28:55.800 Rachel Notley though said that, uh, this is a bunch of extremists, not jobs.

00:29:00.800 And they're, uh, they're a part of Kenny's secret plan to become, uh, El Presidente for life of the Wild Rose Republic of Western Canada.

00:29:08.800 Uh, so there was a lot of different reactions it provoked, but it did, uh, really draw a line in the sand.

00:29:14.800 It had the support of Brad wall and, uh, and some other prominent conservatives, uh, in the country.

00:29:20.800 And so it really did help to drive the conversation.

00:29:23.800 Uh, we're seeing in the news today, there are some, uh, red, uh, Tories of a redder hue in the Tory caucus who are very upset that this happened.

00:29:32.800 Uh, they like not rocking the boat.

00:29:35.800 The Tories have had, uh, overwhelming support in the, in the Prairie provinces.

00:29:40.800 And they don't want to point out that maybe they actually haven't gotten the job done.

00:29:43.800 They don't like that kind of conversation.

00:29:45.800 Um, cause, because this, this document isn't just against the liberals.

00:29:50.800 It's talking about the failure of conservatives, uh, past and present to, uh, to obtain real long-term wins for the West.

00:29:58.800 It can't simply be undone with the next liberal government that inevitably will come along.

00:30:02.800 So, uh, so this was Michelle Rempel, uh, Arnold Veersen, Glenn Motts and, uh, Blake Richardson.

00:30:15.800 Um, uh, Richards or Richardson?

00:30:17.800 Richards.

00:30:18.800 Richards.

00:30:19.800 Okay.

00:30:20.800 Uh, the four of them, uh, really stuck their neck out like this.

00:30:24.800 Uh, I, I, I can tell you from my experience, having been in a caucus, when you put out something that's not just pablum and doesn't have the sign on of your leader, uh, you, you're taking a real political risk.

00:30:35.800 You're, uh, you're saying that you might not necessarily, uh, want a long career and pension to go with it, uh, that you're actually willing to do something.

00:30:43.800 And so, uh, really hats off to these four MPs for doing this is the boldest thing we've seen from conservatives on Western issues since the firewall letter.

00:30:50.800 I think it's actually bolder than the firewall letter and coming from elected politicians who actually have something to lose by putting this out there.

00:30:57.800 Uh, I, I, I'd say was an absolute earthquake and is really moving the conversation.

00:31:01.800 Yeah, I, I was surprised to see Michelle Rempel's name on that.

00:31:05.800 It's not like she hasn't been outspoken in the past, but, uh, you know, she tends to, you know, be reserved when she needs to, uh, about, about it, you know, controversial issues.

00:31:16.800 Uh, and I, I certainly don't see her as an extreme voice, uh, or any of the other ways that they were characterized by the left.

00:31:24.800 The, the whole thing reminds me actually a little bit of, uh, the green new deal or Canada's version of the green new deal.

00:31:30.800 I can't remember what it was called, you know, where it's sort of, um, you know, it's the, it's the crazies.

00:31:35.800 Um, you know, it characterized by as the crazies by the other side.

00:31:39.800 Um, but in this case, I actually felt like there was a lot of really, uh, sensible, but well thought out ideas here.

00:31:47.800 And, um, you know, whereas in the case of the, the mess, the manifesto, uh, the NDP came up with a few years ago.

00:31:55.800 Um, well, but there's a real difference.

00:31:58.800 Uh, so like, you know, the green new deal in the United States pushed by the far left of the democratic party.

00:32:03.800 Well, let's, let's put aside how credible or not they are.

00:32:06.800 Obviously.

00:32:07.800 I, I think we all agree about credibility to the green new deal versus the Buffalo declaration.

00:32:10.800 Uh, but some of that just our perspective, I suppose.

00:32:13.800 Sure.

00:32:14.800 Sure.

00:32:15.800 But you're not supposed to do this in Canadian politics.

00:32:17.800 Right.

00:32:18.800 You're not supposed to have elected officials within a caucus speak their mind independently of the boring party line pablum.

00:32:25.800 This happens in the United States where you have primaries and you don't have a leader of a party.

00:32:29.800 You can just declare you're not a candidate anymore.

00:32:31.800 In Canada, the leader decides if you have a seat or not much more than even the voters do, especially if it's in Alberta.

00:32:37.800 The only person who can ever take your seat away is the leader of your own party.

00:32:41.800 And, but in the States where they have primaries, you have, uh, you know, congressmen and senators are much, much more independent than, uh, than our members of parliament.

00:32:50.800 So you're not really supposed to see that in the Canadian system.

00:32:52.800 It's, it's very much breaking the mold and, uh, agree with them or not, it's brave.

00:32:57.800 That's all for the pipeline this week.

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Western Standard - February 27, 2020

Death to the Carbon Tax, Long Live the Buffalo! - The Pipeline, Episode 10

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