Western Standard - Disturbing Developments： Efforts to control Canada's Newspapers & Internet

00:00:00.000 Welcome Western Standard Watchers. We're talking today about some developments in the Canadian

00:00:16.020 news media scene that some of us find quite disturbing. They speak to an appetite for

00:00:21.880 government control and perhaps even censorship. And it's beyond the newspapers, it's the

00:00:29.000 internet as well. Complex subject. We have somebody here with us today who can make sense

00:00:35.920 of all this, and that's Peter Menzies. Peter Menzies, my former boss in years gone by, a

00:00:42.280 publisher at the Calgary Herald, and for nearly 10 years, a commissioner with the CRTC. These

00:00:52.780 days he is a freelance commentator but he is most commonly to be seen in the mcdonald laurier

00:01:00.400 institute's publications and as somebody who's lived in both worlds he's probably the right man

00:01:07.840 to make sense of all of this so let's go right to it peter welcome to the show thank you nigel

00:01:13.460 good to be with you again good to good to see you there so um you know we think we have peter we

00:01:20.060 we have a free press in this country do we what's going on not just with the legislation but the

00:01:28.060 whole media business well the whole media business has struggled quite a bit ever since the internet

00:01:34.300 was invented and classified advertising went away to kijiji and craigslist and others and it's uh had

00:01:41.660 a very difficult time adapting and so what you've had is they've been looking for government

00:01:47.100 assistance via bailouts and what you're seeing is kind of a merger of this the old broadcasting

00:01:54.060 news world where they were always you know it was contractual when you got a broadcasting license

00:01:59.580 that you would accept certain terms and conditions in when you when you took on that license so

00:02:05.260 broadcasting people have always been a little bit more comfortable with having the uh somebody from

00:02:13.100 the government telling them how many you know how they should conduct themselves and and what sort

00:02:18.220 of standards they should keep and that sort of stuff those of us who uh grew up in the newspaper

00:02:24.060 industry find that abhorrent uh just the very idea that anybody from the government would even have

00:02:32.220 an opinion on how you should do your business was to be fought tooth and nail at every step of the

00:02:39.020 way but these days having suffered more and more from the call it legacy print industry

00:02:47.260 are being enveloped by that broadcasting mentality on the other side there's about 220

00:02:55.580 startups online products such as such as your own who are not complaining for the most part

00:03:04.300 and are moving forward independently and maintaining some of those independent traditions.

00:03:09.400 In other words, the state has no place in the newsrooms of the nation.

00:03:14.360 So, Peter, before we get down to the brass tacks of what is going on,

00:03:19.080 the status of a newspaper reporter, let me put it to you,

00:03:23.680 he stands in the place of the free citizen who is entitled to ask questions of government

00:03:31.660 but doesn't have time to do so.

00:03:34.300 Is that a fair description of where a reporter sits

00:03:37.320 in relation to government?

00:03:39.500 I think so, yes.

00:03:41.840 Okay. So really, any attempt to control the press can be interpreted

00:03:49.180 as an attempt to control the citizen, or is that going too far?

00:03:54.300 No, I think so.

00:03:55.300 I mean, if you're trying to control the information flow

00:03:58.380 to the citizen, you are interfering with their freedom

00:04:02.340 of expression, because freedom of expression and freedom of speech isn't just about what

00:04:06.380 you say, it's about what you get to hear. And if you interfere with that information

00:04:11.580 flow, that free press information flow in any way, I mean, you're entitled to give your

00:04:16.720 spin on things and give your own view of things. Politicians have done that for years and years

00:04:21.720 and years. But if you go beyond that, you've crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed.

00:04:26.880 Yeah. So the Western Standard does not take the government money that you've been speaking of. What is the risk to the public and to newspapers themselves when they accept this money?

00:04:44.200 well i think you lose your viewers and readers trust i think when when people know about that

00:04:49.400 i mean people haven't really known about you know the uh the control the crtc has over uh

00:04:56.040 broadcasting for years because you have to count on the broadcasters to tell you to tell you that

00:05:01.080 and they're not likely to do that because if people think you are beholding to anybody else

00:05:08.280 anybody other than them they your readers your viewers need to believe that they are

00:05:17.080 your primary interest it is they that you serve and if they think you are serving anybody other

00:05:23.240 than them um even through you know minor compliances and that sort of stuff or particularly

00:05:30.760 the government they won't trust you so you're actually going to kill your own business some

00:05:36.360 people might say peter and they would they would use an example like the recent coverage of the

00:05:42.360 allegations of chinese electoral interference that the newspaper industry media the tv companies were

00:05:50.840 big in this coverage too um that they have actually proceeded as if they didn't have any

00:05:58.680 reason to be beholden to government that the money is not making any difference and they publish

00:06:04.760 stories that obviously this government would prefer had stayed under wraps so really it's all

00:06:11.720 okay is there any merit to that you got it i mean there's merit to the argument i mean you can say

00:06:17.400 that that bob fife and stephen chase have have not have not succumbed to any outside pressures and i

00:06:23.640 think the globe and mail deserves some pretty good kudos for that um the globe and mail is also owned

00:06:29.560 by perhaps the richest family in canada and one of the 50 richest families in the world so they

00:06:36.200 have some flexibility in terms of pressure and how people view their view the pressure on them

00:06:41.080 they've never really as far as i know made a lot of money um they've always been supported by the

00:06:47.320 thompson family and and so they have that security and and and they they have the flexibility to be

00:06:53.640 that way but the key issue with most of the media yes some reporters will still be able to do their

00:07:01.080 a good job right but it's whether or not the public trusts them to do that i mean the fact of

00:07:07.880 the matter is people are surprised that these guys broke these stories right and they shouldn't be

00:07:13.960 they should be expecting them to break these stories a very fair point in addition to that

00:07:20.840 That program that we've been talking about, whereby governments fund newspapers, there is also two important pieces of legislation going through Parliament right now, Bill C-11, Bill C-18.

00:07:34.380 In fact, the Western Standard publisher, Derek Fildebrandt, is there testifying to the Senate today.

00:07:40.240 A lot of people, I think, would appreciate an explanation of what those two pieces of legislation do and what dangers they may pose for a free press.

00:07:50.840 Sure. Very broadly, Bill C-11 is the one that's already been enacted. It got royal assent on April the 27th. It actually, for the first time, puts the CRTC in charge of the entire internet. Well, not the entire. Everything that's audio and visual on the internet is now considered broadcasting and is going to be governed by the CRTC through the Broadcasting Act.

00:08:19.940 The threat there, of course, is that the Broadcasting Act compels the CRTC to make sure that the system, as it is known, and the Internet is now part of that system, is of high standard.

00:08:33.380 You can see that already, where they've decided to take a complaint to remove Fox News from the list of approved foreign broadcasters.

00:08:46.380 So Fox News could go out of the old cable system.

00:08:51.980 Now that the CRTC is in charge of the Internet, Canadians could be denied access to it over the Internet as well.

00:08:59.960 So once you start taking an infinite world of information in which the consumer is completely free to pick and choose what they want,

00:09:09.700 which is what the Internet has always been and was intended to be,

00:09:13.740 and you put CRTC in charge, which is governed by nine commissioners appointed by cabinet in terms of that.

00:09:22.600 When I was one, they used to call us patronage appointees.

00:09:25.860 They don't use that term with the liberal appointees, interestingly enough,

00:09:28.960 because I guess patronage was a little demeaning, and I kept trying to figure out what I was getting paid back for.

00:09:36.300 But anyway, it's politicized in that sense.

00:09:42.160 in people's views. They can see it that way. And I don't say that to demean the people who are on

00:09:47.980 the commission. There's some sharp cookies on there, and they've got a big job to do. But

00:09:53.120 basically, people are losing their freedom to watch what they want to watch, when they want

00:09:58.500 to watch it, how they want to watch it. So, Peter, I mean, my first reaction to the Fox News story

00:10:05.060 was that it was a stunt by people who didn't like Fox News, but that it couldn't really go anywhere.

00:10:09.640 Are you suggesting that that's a real possibility?

00:10:12.180 Oh, yeah.

00:10:12.860 No, it's a very real possibility. 1.00

00:10:16.720 You know, first of all, I mean, the group that's complaining is an LGBTQ2 group,

00:10:24.780 and the CRTC has been instructed to take special care of certain groups,

00:10:29.500 and that's one of them in terms of Indigenous.

00:10:32.740 Just last year, the CRTC, which, you know, as Bill C-11 was going along,

00:10:38.360 everybody was saying oh no the crtc doesn't censor anything of course they do that's why they're

00:10:43.240 there right that's the whole point of them what's the point of having a broadcasting regular

00:10:48.280 regulator dictating terms and conditions and hours of the day and that sort of stuff and

00:10:53.400 unless they're regulating last year they sanctioned society radio canada the french cbc

00:11:00.040 for allowing on-air guests and commentators to use the n-word in reference to pierre

00:11:06.600 Valliere's seminal 1968 book where he compared black people to the demise of black people to

00:11:16.360 or the treatment of black people to the treatment of quebecois in canada and that sort of stuff so

00:11:22.360 they've sanctioned society radio canada for that three commissioners dissented one of them wasn't

00:11:28.280 reappointed one of them left for another job there's only one of those left so i think there's

00:11:34.280 some indication there that the other commissioners are comfortable with censorship uh in terms of

00:11:39.720 that and uh you know having watched a couple of the hearings and viewed a couple of them

00:11:46.360 some online activity by one of them i'd say that of the four chairs that are eight chairs that are

00:11:52.360 currently filled i'd say there's a very good chance at least three likely four would be

00:11:58.840 happy to go ahead and take fox news out i have to say peter that i don't believe most canadians

00:12:07.000 are aware of the crtc's censorship role if we lose fox they will be aware of it but it will be too

00:12:16.040 late yep is there anything that the concerned citizen before we go to bill c18 is there anything

00:12:23.080 that the bill the concerned citizen can do at this moment with regard to the fox yeah the crtc

00:12:32.200 has opened a public consultation on the matter it's open until june the second it's on their

00:12:37.160 website i i can it's it's not the easiest thing for people to find so you guys might want to post

00:12:42.600 it but people anybody is free to go in there and post a comment pro or con you know please take

00:12:49.160 fox news down please keep fox news alive in canada i mean the strange thing about the fox

00:12:54.280 news thing is it's it's not like it's on your basic cable package you have to actually want

00:12:59.480 it you have to buy it you have to make an additional subscription to it it's not like

00:13:05.320 you know i told somebody earlier today it's not like you're going to run downstairs to

00:13:08.760 the family room and go oh my god the grandchildren are watching fox news david save us right

00:13:13.880 you have to you know you have to ask for it right so but uh that said um you know people have been

00:13:25.720 kind of waiting for this moment and now that the crtc is in charge of the internet like i said

00:13:31.320 and this actually started with the decision on rt russia tv last year that the crtc made

00:13:37.880 um that whole thing was mismanaged in a way that opened this door and whether or not fox gets

00:13:45.080 uh taken out this time these complaints aren't going to stop there are lots of groups

00:13:51.000 who want to use the crtc to make sure the internet and the news world is a safe space

00:13:58.760 for them in which they will only hear what they deem to be reasonable voices and there's a school

00:14:05.880 of thought that believes that only progressive voices are reasonable voices and would the liberal

00:14:12.280 party of canada be among that group of people that is hoping for that kind of an interpretation from

00:14:19.480 you'd have to say from their convention last weekend and some of the resolutions they passed

00:14:24.120 that yeah they're all in on that you know there was one resolution that the government examined

00:14:29.480 ways to be able to make sure that social media companies only allow information to be posted

00:14:38.280 where the source can be verified, which takes away unnamed source stories from journalists,

00:14:45.240 essentially. And, you know, I mean, people can say those are just resolutions.

00:14:50.280 Well, that would have undercut the whole China inquiry, wouldn't it? Unnamed sources.

00:14:54.600 Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it would get rid of all of that.

00:14:57.960 Right? And it would get, I mean, it would have got rid of Woodward

00:15:04.220 and Bernstein, right?

00:15:05.560 And the Watergate story too.

00:15:08.460 I mean, there's a lot of stories that would have gotten rid of.

00:15:13.720 You know, and I mean, I'm a big believer

00:15:16.120 in very rigorous verification, particularly,

00:15:18.860 and I don't like unnamed sources being, you know,

00:15:22.660 used loosely in journalism.

00:15:24.900 But at the same time, the government has no business controlling that sort of thing.

00:15:31.700 And so maybe nothing ever comes of it.

00:15:35.080 But it reveals the instincts, right?

00:15:37.680 And there's a real trend right now on the left of the spectrum for control of the Internet.

00:15:46.220 And that's Bill C-11 getting control of the Internet.

00:15:49.520 they left a provision in there allowing them to regulate um you know social media posts they said

00:15:56.740 they weren't going to use it but when the senate tried to take it out they put it back in so it's

00:16:01.740 there for a reason it's there to give them flexibility to do something and and sooner or

00:16:06.600 later it'll probably lead to a certain amount like this fox news complaint that will lead to uh that

00:16:12.100 where you know like just accepting the complaint and holding the process that'll put a real chill

00:16:17.620 in newsrooms right there's no question that's what's going to happen and this is video what

00:16:24.500 we're doing right now is video on the internet so right now we are conducting ourselves uh at

00:16:30.580 the pleasure of the crtc a chilling thought talk to us about bill c18 what does that do bill c18

00:16:39.300 is uh basically a shakedown by uh large legacy media companies to force facebook and google to

00:16:47.060 give them money they uh this started with rupert murdoch in australia who owns 60 of

00:16:54.100 uh he owns fox news too but he owns 60 of australia's media and he had complained for

00:16:59.860 years that uh well facebook and google they're stealing our stuff they're making money off it

00:17:04.900 they're not sharing this is a rip off they should be forced to pay us because they're profiting at

00:17:10.900 our expense which is uh i mean murdoch's a very powerful person in australia he basically

00:17:18.020 decides who will be prime minister and for how long as things move as things move along

00:17:24.500 but that's just nonsense it just it doesn't work that way right i mean how does it work peter it

00:17:31.140 well it works right now with facebook gives you a free distribution network right newspapers used

00:17:36.820 to spend as you well know a ton of money on distribution there's paper boxes corner stores

00:17:42.980 you know delivery people the depots etc etc trucks a huge amount on that sort of stuff

00:17:50.180 facebook gives you a free way to go right google's google's certainly different right because google

00:17:55.940 actually scrapes the internet for information and puts it up there through its search engine

00:18:00.580 both of them have been neither of them set out to kill newspapers and I don't think either of them

00:18:10.440 did the internet may very well have killed newspapers because of the way it fragmented

00:18:14.920 its its revenue sources saving consumers billions of dollars in the meantime in terms of classified

00:18:20.440 ads but the the publishers are in control of what they post to Facebook and when they post it to

00:18:28.580 Facebook, they post a link. And when you click on the link, it

00:18:32.060 drives you to the website, right where they can monetize it

00:18:35.720 through exposure to their advertisers. I'm pretty sure

00:18:39.080 Facebook makes a little bit of money somewhere along the line

00:18:43.360 in there. And they have been reinvesting with newspapers

00:18:49.880 through various funds and that sort of stuff and some

00:18:52.520 commercial arrangements. Postmedia I think has deals with

00:18:57.320 them and Google, Toronto Star does, Globe and Mail does. Others may as well. What Bill

00:19:06.180 Satine's trying to make them do is every time, if I'm a newspaper, every time I put something

00:19:12.940 on my page that's a link, they want Facebook to pay me for what Facebook just gave me for

00:19:22.580 free um and there's no cap on the amount that they would have to pay either right so i think

00:19:32.260 both google and facebook would be willing to and there's a good argument to be made hey these guys

00:19:36.740 can't just be taking money out of this country and not leaving any behind don't get me wrong there's

00:19:41.140 there's lots of problems with big tech that need to be dealt with but this isn't one of them i

00:19:46.100 mean almost uncomfortable sometimes saying hey this is a mugging right but it is it's it's it's

00:19:52.020 basically a mugging of big tech and as a result of it facebook is almost certainly if bill c18 is

00:20:00.100 is not amended um going to stop people from being able to post links to news stories on their

00:20:07.300 facebook page so bill c18 is before the senate right now yeah yeah so back to the commons and

00:20:15.060 then passing in royal assent yep yeah i i mean i'm not sure the senate the senate tried really

00:20:23.220 hard with c11 with a lot of thoughtful amendments um and sent it back and they just got completely

00:20:29.860 rejected and they just folded when it came back the second time i'm not sure they have the stomach

00:20:34.660 for the fight anymore um and it's getting close to summer but i'm hoping they'll put in some

00:20:41.540 amendments like for instance the way the bill is created most of the money this is how this

00:20:47.380 bill will work if it works right well and it will only be google paying in probably but say they

00:20:52.660 both pay in because it's based on links the biggest single beneficiary of this bill will be the cbc

00:21:02.820 the second biggest beneficiary will be bell bell media ctv the third will probably be rogers

00:21:09.860 in terms of that none of these guys need a subsidy none of these guys are on the edge of

00:21:17.920 bankruptcy right in terms of that sort of stuff the cbc sure as hell doesn't and it it distorts

00:21:24.800 the marketplace with its presence right now anyway because it's not really a public broadcaster

00:21:29.660 in television so it will very much support the broadcasters the newspapers will get you know

00:21:37.360 according to one estimate from heritage about 54 million bucks a year to split between them

00:21:42.960 and as i recall 54 million bucks is about what the calgary herald used to turn as a profit in

00:21:49.440 one year and 54 million dollars sprinkled across the entire non-broadcast industry will do nothing

00:21:57.520 at all to to change the shape of journalism but it will entrench the status quo and the powerful

00:22:05.200 at the expense of entrepreneurial projects such as yourself so actually the federal government

00:22:11.760 probably quite pleased with the way this thing is moving along they will have more effective control

00:22:18.240 over the canadian media through this through what bill c18 does sure and they'll have fewer people

00:22:25.600 they have to deal with um they'll you know they can they can always make a phone call right you

00:22:32.160 can you meet people uh from some of these companies they all have lots of you know government affairs

00:22:38.800 people regulatory affairs people you can have the conversations you need to have uh to provide the

00:22:44.160 sort of feedback you want to provide and that's and that sort of stuff so it it becomes much more

00:22:49.280 clubby again right once you once you bring in the crtc and once they bring in government control

00:22:56.080 of this or of that it becomes very clubby and and it's really sad because the internet was such a

00:23:03.760 wonderful thing right it was so free and everybody celebrated it at the beginning

00:23:08.640 when it was bringing down tyrannical governments and then you know i mean it was it was a lot of

00:23:13.760 fun um when when people were getting the outcomes they wanted but when other people in power weren't

00:23:20.480 getting were feeling threatened by it all of a sudden they had to control it so peter we've got

00:23:26.640 government programs to fund newspapers we've got bill c11 we got bill c18 is there a grand plan

00:23:34.960 here or did this just kind of all fall together in a fortuitous way from the point of view of those

00:23:40.080 who like the idea of control oh the big one's still to come the the the real dandy is going

00:23:46.160 to be something called the online harms act um and it's been in development for a couple of years

00:23:52.080 and it will be it it will bring itself in under the cloak of protecting people from

00:23:57.600 things that they're already protected from like uh child pornography uh terrorism recruitment

00:24:05.600 those sorts of things uh hate speech uh like criminal code hate speech these things are

00:24:10.640 already governed sharing uh uh sharing intimate images without permission these sorts of things

00:24:17.280 they'll say it's all about doing that but those things are already illegal you can't you you you

00:24:23.600 can't post those things on the internet without the police knocking on your door and you having

00:24:29.760 to defend yourself in court but online harms would be more about redefining hate for instance so it's

00:24:40.640 know i mean we i think we've all seen that quite a bit people talk people use the word hate very

00:24:45.360 use loosely now and they refer they use it to refer to things that they dislike that they find

00:24:52.880 hateful but certainly don't meet the bar that uh the courts would demand for hate um so you'll see

00:25:01.120 uh there's talk in there of creating a a sort of same thing similar sort of sister body to the crtc

00:25:09.600 with somebody called a digital safety commissioner who can order takedowns of posts they find

00:25:16.400 offensive and that sort of stuff so you know if fox news got in trouble with the crtc and got banned

00:25:23.280 it could do what a couple functionaries in the federal government failed to do we learned

00:25:30.160 recently due to some freedom of information request stuff where government comms people

00:25:36.080 got in touch with Facebook and asked them to remove a post containing a Lorne Gunter column

00:25:42.900 because they said it misrepresented them, right?

00:25:47.240 They were asking for a takedown.

00:25:49.980 If the online harms comes along and you have a digital safety commissioner,

00:25:53.660 they could go straight to him or her who could then order Facebook to remove the post.

00:25:59.480 Scott, when is this coming down?

00:26:03.780 Could be later.

00:26:04.920 It could be this fall.

00:26:06.080 I think they want to get C-18 largely done with before.

00:26:09.900 When they first introduced it and sent it out for comment,

00:26:12.360 Twitter responded to it saying it looks a lot like North Korea or Iran.

00:26:17.720 So these things are part of a package then? 0.69

00:26:20.560 Yep.

00:26:21.180 And you throw in the extra ideas that came out of the Liberal Convention last weekend.

00:26:26.380 There very clearly is a very great deal of concern within the progressive movement

00:26:32.380 and the Liberal Party and with the New Democrats as well

00:26:35.280 in terms of that there's just too much freedom of speech.

00:26:40.620 Too much freedom.

00:26:41.040 They wish to restore order.

00:26:43.800 Too much freedom.

00:26:44.500 Well, since you mentioned the NDP, let's quickly, before we go,

00:26:49.940 take a look at what's happening here in Alberta.

00:26:53.440 I know you'll be aware that the Western Standard

00:26:56.620 has been denied permission to ask questions at NDP meetings.

00:27:02.520 We don't even get the press releases to know where the meetings are going to be.

00:27:05.600 We find out and we go.

00:27:07.540 And I'll tell you what happens when we go.

00:27:10.100 Our reporters get shadowed as long as they're there.

00:27:13.880 They don't get to ask a question.

00:27:15.260 They never get near the microphone.

00:27:17.300 But they're sort of standing there and, you know,

00:27:19.560 eventually they may get a chance to yell out, hey, what about?

00:27:21.800 And there's somebody from the NDP who's been standing at their shoulder

00:27:25.940 through the whole period now i think that's a bit naff have you ever had to deal with that in all of

00:27:32.180 your time in journalism no no and nobody and nobody should have to that's thuggery if it's as

00:27:38.300 you described um well we'll show you we'll show you the video jothy bradley western center i got

00:27:44.400 a question about the the military don't yell your questions out okay you know that your policy with

00:27:50.560 your particular outlet where you have operated in hate speech against our candidates how we

00:27:55.440 We'll be taking questions from you.

00:27:57.360 I've gone over this, Jonathan, several times.

00:27:59.780 Happy to continue talking about it.

00:28:01.260 Happy to have that discussion with your editors.

00:28:02.980 Thank you for coming.

00:28:04.000 Appreciate it.

00:28:04.700 It's straight intimidation, right?

00:28:06.260 If you just have somebody, I mean, if you're standing there and some big guy is standing next to you,

00:28:11.220 or even some little guy, or even some male or female is just sort of there, right?

00:28:17.820 Like, that's invading your space.

00:28:22.160 Talk about your safe spaces, right?

00:28:24.340 Now, if politicians want to not take questions from some certain media, I suppose they have a right to do that during a campaign, I guess.

00:28:34.180 But once you become premier of the province, your job is to represent not just the people who voted for you.

00:28:42.060 You are responsible to speak to all Albertans.

00:28:45.840 And so these sort of instincts are, you know, I mean, if you ask inappropriate questions, you know, maybe do five minutes in the penalty box or something, I don't know, but they have no business doing this and the instincts it reveals are really troubling.

00:29:02.820 Well, that certainly troubles us.

00:29:07.860 Last question then.

00:29:10.680 Different government in Ottawa, can they blow this all up

00:29:13.700 and restore things back to a more freedom-loving situation

00:29:19.920 without making the situation impossible to operate?

00:29:25.600 Oh, no, they certainly can.

00:29:27.260 I mean, even the Bill C-18 stuff, the CRTC was at the Senate last week

00:29:32.220 and they noted that it's going to take them two years to be ready to to really do anything c11

00:29:39.180 the crtc announced a plan today late 2024 they might have if everything stayed on schedule which

00:29:46.880 it won't um they would have you know that's when the first changes have become official i think in

00:29:53.420 terms of regulations and that sort of stuff if the federal conservatives stick to their theme

00:29:59.200 of giving you back control of your life

00:30:01.980 and getting rid of gatekeepers,

00:30:04.620 they will have no trouble dispensing with these bills

00:30:09.620 because they won't have embedded themselves

00:30:11.940 by the time the 2025 election comes around

00:30:14.920 to the extent that you need to undo it,

00:30:18.940 or you can't undo it, if you know what I mean.

00:30:21.940 So, yeah, it can change.

00:30:25.820 Well, isn't that just the one bit of good news

00:30:27.920 in the whole interview?

00:30:29.200 Well, yes, there's hope. As they say in football, it's the hope that kills you, though, sometimes.

00:30:36.280 Just to coin a phrase, the state has no business in the newsrooms of the nations.

00:30:41.420 Peter, I'd like to thank you very much for giving us your time this afternoon.

00:30:45.300 Valuable insights on a matter that just is so important to so many people in this country.

00:30:52.260 Thank you very much for coming on board.

00:30:54.600 Thanks very much. And like I said, people can go to those links and have their say.

00:30:59.200 For the Western Standard, I'm Nigel Hannaford.

00:31:02.760 Canadian Shooting Sports Association, without the CSSA, our gun rights would have been taken long, long ago.

00:31:09.220 These guys are on the front lines, helping to draft smart and intelligent firearms regulations and legislation in Canada.

00:31:17.080 And more importantly, educating the public about how we keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people.

00:31:22.400 We've become a member. It's absolutely worth every penny.

00:31:25.180 you can become a western standard member for just ten dollars a month or 99

Western Standard - May 09, 2023

Disturbing Developments： Efforts to control Canada's Newspapers & Internet

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