Eby says 'yes' to pipeline
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Summary
Shannon Joseph is the Chair of Energy for a Secure Future, an organization dedicated to expanding the natural gas industry in Canada and with a special interest in Indigenous participation. In this episode, she talks with me about her work with the Nishka Nation on the Kelowna-Prince Rupert pipeline project, and the recent decision to move ahead with construction on the Prince Rupert pipeline.
Transcript
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Good evening Western Standard viewers. I'm Nigel Hannaford and I'm down on the grounds of the
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global energy show, the second largest show in the world. Only Texas is bigger. This is
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an incredible gathering of the industry of more than 700 companies developing the
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oil and the gas and also the politicians who need to be here.
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Shannon Joseph is my guest. Shannon would you call yourself a politician? I would
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not. She would not. I'd call myself a doer. Oh well there you're drawing a very
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sharp distinction there Shannon. Shannon Joseph is actually the chair of Energy
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for a Secure Future which is an organization dedicated to expanding the
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natural gas industry in Canada and with a very special interest in indigenous
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participation. Would you have described your role any differently Shannon? No I
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think that's a I think that's an apt description. I would just add that we
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care about Canada's global energy role where LNG is going to play this big role.
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We also care about Canada learning from the rest of the world about how to have a
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resilient energy system in Canada. How do we have affordable abundant energy and a
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system that really delivers for Canadians all the time. But also for the Far East.
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Something very significant happened in British Columbia last week which is
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something I'd like you to talk about now. A pipeline. We wanted a pipeline.
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Apparently we've got one. That's right and so very recently I think last week the
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BC government approved the Prince... It was Friday. Oh Friday! The Prince, the BC
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government approved for a substantial start of the Prince Rupert gas transmission line.
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And what that means is that we're gonna have another gas pipeline in British
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Columbia. We have the coastal gas link pipeline which is supplying LNG Canada
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and eventually phase one will eventually supply phase two. It's gonna supply Cedar
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LNG, the majority indigenous owned one. But this one is supplying a whole other
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project called Cylisms LNG and the pipeline is always the hardest thing to build in
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Canada. So the fact that this thing is gonna move ahead is very good news for
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that other project in BC taking place and for us as a country getting more and
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more into the global market for LNG. One of the things that struck me about this
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project there's a little bit of a story behind it. There was already a right-of-way
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approved and of course getting approvals is the thing that takes the ten years in
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Canada. So how did that all fall into place? Yeah, so they had a right-of-way, they
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had permitting, but they had to demonstrate that the pipeline had
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substantially started construction. If they had not demonstrated that, the
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permits would have expired and then they would have had to start all over. And
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starting all over in 2025 would not have been a happy proposition I think for
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anyone. And so fortunately for for the proponents, for the First Nation, Nishka
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Nation, they they got it done and they started building, you know, in a
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challenging time. They're one of their neighboring nations started not being
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happy with the project even though they had an impact benefit agreement that they
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had made along with the other nations on the route. But Nishka, you know, got it
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done in their territory. And and now the project's gonna happen and I think will
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deliver lots of benefits, not just for them, but for all the nations along the
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route. And not just in terms of kind of, you know, having a project, but the the
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jobs and training, there's been a lot of kind of First Nations economic upscale
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because of CGL that has now been leveraged into getting that pipeline
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substantially started. And it's it's just gonna be a good news story across the
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board for building that capacity and a better future.
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So if I understand the situation correctly, there was a company 10 years ago that got
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this pipeline route approved. Correct. But couldn't or didn't proceed. Yes. It ended up
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with the ownership in the hands of the Heisler Nation. Nishka. Nishka. Yes. Okay. And
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that they then risked their own money to build enough pipeline under budget, under
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budget and on time, which is not something you hear a lot about for Canada, right?
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Which allowed the Premier of BC, who is notably anti hydrocarbon development, to say,
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nevertheless, this one can go ahead. How big is it?
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So I just want to say one thing about the Premier of BC, I think BC has been moving
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along a spectrum of opinion on this. And so I think once upon a time, Premier EB would
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never talk about natural gas, would never talk about LNG. He had a trip to Asia in kind of
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his previous mandate, and started to understand what the rest of the world deals with. And
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in the rest of the world, you know, if you're Korea, if you're Japan, you're importing 94%
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of your energy or more. And that means you need to look around the world, who's going to give
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me my energy? And you're might be relying on Russia, and they were and still do for some
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of their energy. You might be relying on Qatar, you're relying on the United States, who is
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now the biggest exporter of gas in the world. But you're hoping for lots of partners, because
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if you put all your eggs in one basket, like Europe did with Russia, you can get a big surprise
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when Russia invades Ukraine. And I think the Asians don't want that. And I think that has
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started to move, I think, the political needle in BC. And the Premier was just in Asia again,
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and I think is very keen for BC to be a global energy partner now.
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So he's telling them over in Asia, that there is a business case.
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Well, would you anticipate that now that this project has received approval, others will
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I think that now that this project has received approval, an LNG project that is the same size
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as LNG Canada train one approximately, is going to have a way better chance of getting its final
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investment decision to get built. If you can't supply the LNG facility, you can't do anything.
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And I think this also bodes important for the conversation around the gas that will go into
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the pipe. As we know, in Canada, we've been talking a lot about, you know, diversifying
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to the world, but we need policy coherence. We, you know, we want to build baby build, but
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we still have an emissions cap on the oil and gas industry that would make it hard for the
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people who have to put product in that pipe to send to Asia. And so, you know, I'm hoping
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that now that we have this pipeline, and another major project on the horizon, LNG Canada was the
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biggest infrastructure project in the country. Cylissims can be of a similar size, that our
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government in Ottawa is going to start thinking, hey, let's be coherent here, if we want to be a
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global player, and change some of these policies so that our companies can have the confidence that
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You know, what you say makes perfect sense, but even now I can sort of sense the heads shaking
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at the other end of the video. No, no, they won't do that. And we could go down that rocky road if we
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want it, but we won't. What I would like to ask you is why this is happening now. I'm thinking of a
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time 10 years ago, when if you had asked Google for a list of LNG projects proposed in British Columbia,
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you'd have probably had 20, maybe more. But anyway, certainly there was 20. Well, now we have
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one actually in operation. And the Prince Rupert gas transmission line now approved. And this is great.
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Well, you know, I think a couple of things happened. One is, you know, there was a down cycle overall in
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oil and gas after 2014. And that was around the time we were getting started and the United States
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was getting started. But there was that demand for energy anyway. And we and it's not a secret,
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certainly not a secret to your viewers, Canada does not have a very friendly policy environment.
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And so I think a combination of and Canada is already more expensive to build things, right? Whereas the
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United States, if you're in the Gulf Coast, it's flat, it's warm all year, you can build very quickly,
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in northern British Columbia, there's a giant mountain range, it's freezing, you know, shorter
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construction season, higher costs. I thought, I think there were a lot of questions unresolved
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about how to ensure First Nations benefited from these projects. And so there was opposition to some
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of the projects that were in there. And there was a lot of reputational damage to Canada, with these
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projects kind of falling apart when we had such good resource. But, um,
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but I think you just said the magic word there then, ensuring indigenous representation and benefit.
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Now, with this Prince Rupert line, how important was that for the
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I think it was extremely important. Because again, like Coastal Gas Link, that pipeline has impact
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benefit agreements for the nations along the route. And, you know, as we are seeing now,
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with the recent deal that Enbridge did, where they sold ownership and existing gas pipelines,
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those benefit agreements, maybe someday in the future, and I'm not a, you know, I'm not a proponent
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or anything like that, are eligible for those kinds of, of ownership sharing and things like that.
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But they have to exist first. And I think, um, now that we're in a world where people see that these
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things are possible, they're trying, they're, they're looking out First Nations, they're looking
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at another, they're looking at what's a long opportunity, what's a long-term opportunity if we
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work together with this company to make this thing happen? And how will it benefit our people for the
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long-term? So I think that's an important part of it. Um, but I'd still say, Nigel, in, in that first
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phase of things, we also kind of, things kind of fell apart, um, policy-wise when the new government,
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the new Liberal government came in in 2015, because they put in a lot of policies with a view of,
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So, to, to go back to something you said five minutes ago,
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If that does not get lifted, all of this is great as far as it goes. This pipeline,
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I think you said, is drawing from the Montney in BC.
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There is some possibility, your word was optionality.
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Uh, I, I'm going to work that in. But, uh, so there's some possibility that this could
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You know, today, Alberta gas is part of the United States, uh, LNG success story. We,
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we send a, you know, seven to 10% of the U.S. gas supply is Canadian gas.
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And Tourmaline was kind of the front runner in this, but ARC, and most recently Canadian Natural,
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And they're going to, they're going to be supplying Europe.
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They are supplying Europe today. Uh, the companies that are already getting gas down there.
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I think having a pipeline now, two pipelines going towards the, the BC coast, um, is going
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to create, uh, great options for our producers. And, um, and again, on the environmental issue,
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because I don't want people to think, oh, well, they just don't care. Uh, on the environmental issue,
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we can't forget the biggest lift on the emissions is displacing high emitting fuels in Asia. And,
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um, you know, when we shut down our, our production in Canada, the coal plant,
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the coal fire plant construction in China could wipe that out. And in three weeks,
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all the emissions we think we saved, they've replaced. And there's one planet. And on this
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planet, there are still millions of people who don't have the energy they need to refrigerate,
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to sterilize medical equipment, to live, to get, you know, to read books at night when the sun sets.
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And that is the problem people are solving. And when they start to solve that problem,
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they will be a greater ally to us in protecting the environment and all the rest of it. But
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Canada can be such an important player in helping millions of people solve that problem. And in doing
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so protecting not only the atmosphere, but forests that get burned down for fuel and all the rest of
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it. I mean, and, and what I'm hoping and I'm excited about is that both federally and all the
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provincial governments are starting to have this bigger vision. And we need to hold that bigger vision,
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because I would say the First Nations who have been partners in these projects, they have had that
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bigger vision, they have been partnering with industry to advance that vision. And so it's time to
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all get behind it. Last question, Shannon, when does the gas start flowing through the Prince Rupert line,
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if everything goes according to plan? Well, that's, that's a really good question. And it's not
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completely certain. I mean, right now, Silisim's LNG, I think has about two buyers that are, you know,
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known for buying their gas, they still have to book buyers for more of the volume that would come out of
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that project than they currently have. But that work continues. And I think gas will start going flowing
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in that line. When they've found those buyers, and they've secured those deals, and they build that
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plant, then the gas will flow, you know, it could, it could be a few years, probably more than five years,
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maybe I don't know, I don't want to say anything. But right now is the time to be selling the gas.
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In Asia, there are many contracts, long term contracts that these countries have had with
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Russia, they start expiring in 2029. We still have a pretty high spot price for gas globally,
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that's going to encourage these new long term contracts. And so Canada should be laser focused on
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making those deals, getting in there, replacing those Russian contracts, and, and having those deals
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in place that will make it possible to FID these projects, and, and get them built. When they're built,
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the gas will be be flowing. And if the rest of the project goes the way that first section of pipe went,
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then maybe it'll get done pretty quickly. But we need to be really focused on making it happen.
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Shannon, a very big part of what you do is, is making that happen, making the quiet connections
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in the background that bring people together, give them confidence, and develop opportunities. It's,
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it's God's work. Congratulations. And let's stay in touch on this.