It's election day, and there's a lot to cover. Sam Cooper of the Bureau of Canadian Elections joins us to talk about foreign interference, a woman breaks her arm in a fall at a quilt shop, and a man who's wife is in the hospital with a broken arm.
00:01:25.400I mean, nobody, I think, can confidently say what the hell is going to happen on Monday.
00:01:29.500Just be sure to tune in here at the Western Standard, 6 p.m. Mountain Standard Time.
00:01:34.560We're starting that coverage of it, and we'll watch those results as they come in, good, bad, or ugly.
00:01:40.340So I've got a few guests coming on today.
00:01:42.680We've got Sam Cooper of the Bureau, and he's going to talk foreign interference.
00:01:46.800This is his specialty there, and he's really opened up a lot of stuff.
00:01:50.180It seems to have been forgotten in this election.
00:01:52.080I mean, this is what was dragging the Liberals down for a year and a half, and now the election's on, and we're barely hearing about it.
00:01:57.840But we're hearing about candidates being targeted and things. It's still going on. We're just not hearing about it.
00:02:02.260Crystal Witt-Vrangel is going to come on from the Montreal Economic Institute.
00:02:05.420Another thing that did come up, but it's still kind of been forgotten, is the no more pipelines bill.
00:02:09.940And if the Liberals get in, they're going to keep it. So that means we're not going to get any more pipelines.
00:02:14.640It doesn't matter what Carney's promising. He's kind of establishing himself as a pretty effective liar, but it doesn't seem to matter to the East.
00:02:21.460And then we're going to talk to Jared Yeager of the Western Standard.
00:11:44.580And, of course, he resigned in disgrace, finally decided not to run because of just one scandal after another.
00:11:50.040I mean, the problem is these liberals are corrupt to the core.
00:11:52.680But now Chahal is running again, and he might win.
00:11:55.240if you've worked elections in Northeast Calgary, you do have to understand that the parties don't
00:12:03.780matter as much as how you work the communities. And, you know, I got to watch how I phrase it.
00:12:13.520Every party deals with the same thing. And there's some truth to that. Northeast Calgary is a
00:12:17.500predominantly high new Canadian area. A lot of Indian, South Asian people living up there.
00:12:23.180and they tend to vote based on where community leaders are telling them to go as opposed to
00:12:27.760where parties will. So it's who's playing that ground game better who tends to win it. So it's
00:12:33.200actually more swing ridings up there because you can see some of those northeast ridings going
00:12:37.220strongly conservative sometimes. But yeah, they'll swing liberal the other. So whether or not
00:12:42.340Chahal is going to get in up there, I don't know. But the game up there doesn't matter as much
00:12:48.300uh on what's going on actually on the the central party front as it is the local candidate and how
00:12:53.580they're connecting with that community it's a bizarre area to work and it's difficult uh when
00:12:58.840we were up there i think i've told that story before when when the wildrose party was gone
00:13:01.820we were running nominations this must have been 10 12 years ago daniel smith was leading it back
00:13:06.060then and uh we had a problem we we had it was calgary cross i don't think that constituency
00:13:11.940even exists anymore five people signed up to run in it and then it within days like this is for
00:13:18.160the nomination, thousands and thousands of new memberships all poured into the party office
00:13:22.640from up there. Like amazing. You know, nobody in a nomination tends to sell thousands of
00:13:26.300memberships that fast. The party rules are everybody is supposed to buy their own membership
00:13:29.960by themselves to avoid that kind of flooding. The reality is, and it turned out four out of the five
00:13:35.920candidates all had the same lists of people, just basically cut checks for the amount of the people
00:13:40.400bought memberships for them all automatically made up the whole works. It was brutal. There
00:13:44.700was overlap, there was duplication. All of these candidates had sold to the same people, supposedly
00:13:49.940sold to the same people over and over. Vitor Marciano, he was our executive director at the
00:13:54.280time. I mean, we knew this is going to stink because the only candidate who didn't flood it
00:13:58.680was, I mean, the others were all of Indian and South Asian origin. And the one non-Indian in the
00:14:05.940bunch, the one white guy, wasn't the only one who didn't break the rules. But that's going to look
00:14:09.220awful if you disqualify the four brown folks and keep the one white guy but what are you supposed0.85
00:14:14.760to do so he spent days him with some helpers knocking on doors gathering the evidence collecting
00:14:20.980it just showing look at this this household's claiming it's got 12 people living in it there's
00:14:25.240only two people here this person's been signed up by all four of the other candidates you know lots
00:14:30.220of other things built a huge case before disqualifying those four candidates which we did
00:14:35.920And the backlash wasn't too, too big because every other party who deals in Northeast Calgary also knows this could bite us in the butt one day too.
00:14:45.160It's a different sort of politics up there.
00:14:47.300It's an ethnic play and it's unfortunate.0.83
00:14:50.480I mean, it's great that new Canadians are taking part in the process, but in that particular community, they look at things differently.
00:14:58.200And it's just more of a game to be won.
00:15:35.060Uh, out in Ottawa, Carlton, that's where, where, uh, Polly was running. It's his own riding.
00:15:43.780And, uh, there's this anti-democratic, I'll say it group. And I got to wonder about a bit of this.
00:15:50.040Okay. Uh, they, they've started this long ballot thing where basically, and they've done it in a
00:15:54.460couple of by-elections. They just get dozens and dozens and dozens of people to sign up
00:15:57.900as candidates in the election. Just so the bandit ballot has loads of people. They got 90 people
00:16:02.960on the ballot so i mean somebody wants to go in and vote for anybody or if it's probably ever
00:16:08.220anything they've got to search through all those and those bandits ballots are randomized they don't
00:16:13.120even do it in alphabetical because it might give an advantage to something like they try to keep
00:16:16.360things fair all over when it makes a mess you've got to search through 90 names to find him and why
00:16:23.400what's your point what's your purpose and where's the money coming from like 90 you've got to put
00:16:31.920in deposits of, I believe it's $1,000. It's refundable if you file your papers and everything
00:16:38.220else. But, you know, we're talking possibly $100,000, $90,000. Plus, you've got to get
00:16:46.360signatures of 100 people living in the riding with their phone number, their address, the
00:16:51.840whole works on it. This is a real petition to run. It's not easy to do. That's a few
00:16:55.040days work. So how did you find 90 people willing to spend that much money and that much time
00:17:03.480to flood a ballot and screw up an election somewhere? I honestly feel it should be
00:17:09.160investigated. I mean, you have a right to run and these people do. And, you know, there might not
00:17:16.120be any law having been broken. Who knows? I just want to know who's behind it. Just because you
00:17:21.440can doesn't mean you should, right? I mean, is your interest really democracy? Is your interest
00:17:25.380really making it better? Or is it just throwing sand in the gears? It's not a democratic movement.
00:17:32.700It's an offense to democracy. It's screwing with the process. If you really don't like him,
00:17:38.960you campaign against him. You run seriously against him, not trying to flood a constituency
00:17:45.720with people. Sam seems to be late again. That's why I'm rambling a bit. So let's talk about some
00:17:53.200of the issues that have been going on. Somebody saying Chinese money, foreign money, and one of
00:18:03.240the commenters I thought I saw there, but that could be. I don't know. And that's the issue.
00:18:08.760Foreign interference, like I was talking about, it's been forgotten. This was one of the biggest1.00
00:18:14.480issues in Canada for years. You know, the Liberals got away with ragging the puck. You know, they
00:18:23.040dragged it out. Trudeau appointed his buddy there to run, you know, be a special rapporteur and that
00:18:30.580fell apart because it was stupid. And then we have one report after another report that doesn't say
00:18:35.460anything and they're blacked out and we're holding or dragging our heels. And then there's another
00:18:39.520one that comes up and basically says, yeah, 11 people were compromised, but yeah, it's not that
00:18:44.020big a deal. Years of this. And he got away with it. Think about the gravity of what has happened.
00:18:52.840Eleven elected people were compromised. And so they'll say, oh, well, it's only in a minor way
00:18:59.460perhaps. What? And we never got to find out who they are. This is a big deal. These are people
00:19:05.640in the highest positions of power were now beholden to somebody overseas. Everybody's
00:19:14.620freaking out quite a bit about the American issues, which they should. We've got some1.00
00:19:21.100issues going on in the United States. There's no doubt about that. But what about this stuff
00:19:27.480we've been documenting for so long already? This should be a bigger issue. We've barely heard about
00:19:33.060it. So, I mean, we had a conservative candidate actually stop campaigning publicly because the
00:19:41.840RCMP warned him that he might be in danger. Again, think about the threat to democracy this is. This
00:19:49.040is not a minor affair. This should be headline sort of things going on. And, you know, we've
00:19:59.320we've let it become overshadowed by the American mess that's going on, unfortunately. And we really
00:20:05.800should, there would have been no better time to discuss this. Actually, the better time to discuss
00:20:08.660it would be before the election, rather than even during, because I mean, we don't know if somebody's
00:20:13.420compromised or they aren't. And it adds suspicion and it adds questioning of the process. And the
00:20:19.800next best time would have been during the election. But we've barely ever heard about it, at least from
00:20:23.680the candidates and parties. But somebody we've heard a lot about it from has been Sam Cooper
00:20:27.160with the Bureau. He's been very prolific. Lots of stories. This is his file, and he's been
00:20:32.960magnificent on it for years now, and he's still hammering at it. So thank you very much for
00:20:39.600joining us today, Sam. Glad to be with you, Corey.
00:20:44.100So, I mean, you know, you might have heard a bit of my preamble there. I mean, just that this
00:20:48.800frustration, like I was trying to explain the gravity of what's going on. I mean, we've got
00:20:54.300other nations using Canada as a playground to kind of play politics within it. And we're in
00:20:59.100the middle of a federal election, yet this issue doesn't really seem to be resonating during this
00:21:04.840campaign. Well, I agree with you. It's really confusing to look at the scale of foreign1.00
00:21:15.040interference. First of all, as you know, that I revealed in our recent elections, just there's,
00:21:21.080I would say, as my document reporting has shown, Chinese Communist Party documents suggest that
00:21:28.640China has been pleased in the recent elections that up to from 40 to 50 nominees it would be
00:21:36.320supportive of were put forward for the major political parties. And the whole commission
00:21:43.140completely minimized the evidence in my view of how deep the interference was. But as we see in
00:21:49.800the current campaign. It's almost hard to list off all the known cases that have surfaced
00:21:56.660from a former police officer suggesting his conservative rival could be taken to the
00:22:02.920Chinese consulate for a bounty. That candidate replaced by Mark Carney with another former
00:22:09.300police officer who my reporting revealed had traveled to Beijing for a high-level military
00:22:15.400parade had any number of connections to Chinese United Front networks in Toronto. And so you're
00:22:23.600right. For the people that are following it and now know what the United Front is, I think that
00:22:29.560they've started to probably adopt the view that I have that this problem is getting worse in Canada.
00:22:35.580And yet you're right. At the mainstream level, it hasn't gotten through to millions of Canadians
00:22:41.980who, in my view, I'll just use the vernacular, have been gaslit very successfully by the Liberal
00:22:49.140Party into believing that this election is all about repelling the invaders from the South,
00:22:56.920which I just don't think is the case. And that's not to underestimate that President Donald Trump's
00:23:04.280trolling of Canada has been confusing and even scary. But I just think that that's not the
00:23:10.380concern for Canadians and those that believe that's the concern, I think they're living in0.92
00:23:16.240rather a disillusioned world that will not help Canada's standing in the long run.
00:23:21.840And I know it gets really speculative. It's difficult to figure out the motivations,
00:23:27.180but I was just gobsmacked. I mean, you can see something going wrong on a riding level. You
00:23:32.340made a mistake. Things turned disastrous. That first policeman who, after those appalling
00:23:38.040statements about his opponent he got pulled out but you would think then the liberals are going
00:23:41.400to be really gun shy we're going to make sure we put in somebody who has absolutely no connection
00:23:46.120to you know it would only make sense to to the to beijing on any level and they replace him with
00:23:52.500somebody virtually as bad perhaps just not as badly outspoken as the last one is this a case of
00:23:58.360incompetence or are they they compromised i i just don't get it well cory i could talk for for days
00:24:06.460about this and i've written a book about it this if i would if i really want to be direct here
00:24:12.060the uh the the liberal party of mark carney which mark carney took over essentially has
00:24:18.620a system in place or rather has acquiesced to a system called beijing's united front
00:24:24.220work department and it's very active by the way in other nations australia new zealand
00:24:29.660the United States as well, where community groups in the diaspora, unfortunately, have been co-opted
00:24:37.420and controlled by Beijing's agents who task business people in the community, get them to
00:24:44.540surround our Canadian political leaders. And essentially, the trade is we will provide funding
00:24:50.800for your party. We will provide votes, but we will get to essentially suggest to you the candidates
00:24:57.460you should put in place so for mark carney to put a uh former toronto police officer senior
00:25:03.540executive in place that as my reporting followed by the global mail revealed has very tight ties
00:25:09.540to these very same beijing connected community groups i don't think that uh a mark carney really
00:25:16.420has much of a choice unless he wants to buck that system and he won't buck that system uh i can say
00:25:23.940You know, I'll get into the weeds a little bit here. The Globe and Mail, following my reporting, broke a story that Mark Carney had met with one of these very same Toronto-based community groups in January, signaling sort of to the community that he is friendly with these Beijing-supported groups.
00:25:44.320And, you know, that message means a lot to the Chinese consulate people that are in charge of interference. And really, at the end of the day, these people, there's a trade going on. You support us. We support you and the candidates that Beijing favors will be put forward.
00:26:05.540yeah and well and i'm glad you brought up your book because you wrote a fantastic one that kind
00:26:10.680of goes really into the weeds and the depth i mean this is an issue that goes back a long ways
00:26:16.420and is entrenched in a whole number of areas and and it's not just the liberals i mean even this
00:26:21.180is going back prior to stephen harper even we've had problems with this issues with this
00:26:25.440and governments that are just very reticent on stepping in and doing anything about it as you
00:26:32.340wrote, you know, the money laundering in West Coast casinos. I mean, it all, the tentacles of
00:26:38.420how this all ties together, even in your most recent story on the fentanyl triangle. It's such
00:26:44.860a webbed unravel. Maybe it's the fact that it's so bloody complicated that people are having
00:26:49.140trouble grasping just what this is all about. I really do think that's the case. And, you know,
00:26:55.040if we're talking about successive governments, some of them more, some of them less being
00:26:59.800influenced by Beijing, I think at the end of the day, this is a little bit of a West versus East0.64
00:27:06.520story. And if we really want to delve into the weeds or maybe get to the core of it, there's
00:27:11.680something called the Canada-China Business Council, which has been historically, some have called it
00:27:17.820the power behind the throne of liberal prime ministers, starting with Pierre Trudeau. We
00:27:23.200literally have various liberal prime ministers that have sat on the boards of, you know, a powerful
00:27:29.560Quebec corporate entities that I have reported for the Bureau. Jonathan Manthorpe did a great
00:27:36.260book as well. These Quebec corporate industrialists have direct ties to Chinese Communist Party,
00:27:43.040senior business families. And I think that's what's behind this. Conservative prime ministers
00:27:50.980have been influenced that as well. We have Stephen Harper, who my reporting shows was taking a
00:27:56.860stronger national security line against Beijing, was willing to stand against some of the oil
00:28:02.920resource field investment from Beijing entities, but was sort of, that position was watered down
00:28:10.740again by this East Coast Canada-China Business Council, which at the end of the day, I'm
00:28:15.580thinking, I'm asserting, if you look at Mark Carney's choices, there's a lot of smart people
00:28:21.940I talk to in the security world that say it's the business, the Canada-China Business Council
00:28:27.380behind him that's really pulling a lot of those strings. So, I mean, we won't know until Monday
00:28:33.740what our government's going to look like going forward. This issue isn't going to go away,
00:28:38.660but what's it going to take to get it rectified? I mean, we've had so many now panels and
00:28:43.840commissions and just, you know, they drag their feet and they hide the data. I won't be shocked
00:28:49.980if we find out six months after this election, oh, by the way, there was interference in this
00:28:53.700writing, this writing, this writing, and this writing, but we're not going to tell you anything
00:28:56.100about it. What on earth does it take anymore? Well, I do think that if a conservative government
00:29:05.120won, there would be a disruption to the system in place, which I'm asserting with good confidence
00:29:11.480is a great deal of corruption going on involving politicians, law firms, corporations that really
00:29:18.800have a great deal of uh business interest tied to beijing and at the end of the day i have argued
00:29:25.520that beijing's intelligence and saturation level in interference in canada is about splitting
00:29:32.640ottawa from washington in other words splitting canadians from our closest and deepest allies our
00:29:38.240american cousins and brothers and sisters so what's it going to take i believe it would at
00:29:44.720the end of the day the conservatives would be you know a directional improvement they probably
00:29:50.240wouldn't really get to the bottom of things because they have their own issues uh as you know
00:29:55.600as uh you know you cannot say that the conservative party would just snap their fingers and do away
00:30:01.840with chinese interference or interference from india or the corruption that is in canada's
00:30:06.800government i'm saying so what does it take uh it'll take a lot more hard action from washington
00:30:12.480I believe, and a lot more tough medicine that a lot of sort of elderly, more socialist leaning
00:30:18.600Canadians don't understand that the U.S. does have some deep and real concerns about Canada's
00:30:25.300lack of seriousness on national security. Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought that up because it
00:30:31.720kind of hit the news recently. China kind of made a bit of a play almost, and it wasn't well received
00:30:36.080by most people, but they're kind of along the lines of, you know, well, you've got that wild
00:30:39.660man south of the border you got president trump uh he's difficult to deal with but here we are
00:30:44.620come on we can tighten our relationship now's the time canada and china should be become closer
00:30:49.400and it was almost a transparent uh reach into uh canadian politics uh you know
00:30:57.300when uh the americans are providing such a distraction i mean the reality is
00:31:02.280they're still going to be our best ally our largest trading partner down in the united states
00:31:06.480No matter, you know, Trump is off the rails, he's Trump, but he's not going to be there forever.
00:31:11.500And the Americans will. So tightening ties with China right now, I don't I mean, we can't abandon them.0.77
00:31:17.920We're very integrated with them. But it just seemed like a pretty transparent grab at things while we were, I guess, on the outs with our neighbors right now.
00:31:27.580Yeah, I believe so. And this is this story is being played out in Europe. It's being played out around the world.
00:31:33.020When I really stepped back, I was talking to a security community friend today and said, look, if you would ask me five years ago after, you know, I was digging into my book, Willful Blindness, what should Canada do?
00:31:47.440I would say, year by year, we should be cutting trade ties with China. We should be manufacturing1.00
00:31:53.380in North America. If they are intentionally sending fentanyl precursors into our nations
00:31:59.460to kill our citizens, the only responsible thing to do if they don't stop is basically stop trading
00:32:04.960with them, trade with the rest of the world. So what's happening south of the border in a very
00:32:09.800abrupt, explosive way, President Trump is doing that. And he's making it worse by being very
00:32:16.940mean-spirited in his language with people around the world, you know, just playing sort of the
00:32:23.360American high horse. And everyone knows in diplomacy, you know, a spoonful of sugar makes
00:32:29.280the medicine go down. So they're messing up what I believe should be the strategic direction of
00:32:36.580the world, which is to shift away from China, but do it slowly, surely. Don't start any wars.
00:32:43.000And you're right. So what happens when they handle it rather badly in Washington? You get diplomats from China saying, let's get closer. We're really friends. We respect you. To which I have a visceral reaction saying, yes, some Canadians were recently killed in China. You take our citizens hostage.
00:33:02.560I myself have been told I can't safely travel to China.
00:33:11.780Ironic that you'd say, China, you want to get close to us, because I know from my police1.00
00:33:16.360sources that your diplomats in Canada are surveilled meeting with drug dealers.
00:33:22.340So indeed, I would never think or advocate that Canada should get closer to China.
00:33:27.960but it's a world of political turmoil and a lack of diplomacy we're in the middle of right now.
00:33:35.040It's something else. And the discussion just keeps going on and on. I mean, I just really
00:33:39.580appreciate you working so hard to, well, to have brought it up in the first place and you're
00:33:43.040keeping it going because we're going to need to have this discussion going forward and for
00:33:46.820more time to come. So before I let you go, I mean, your book's Willful Blindness.
00:33:52.540It's available, I imagine, on Amazon and the usual places.
00:33:55.320Yeah, you can find it most easily on Amazon. I saw that it got up to the top 100 again in Canada. So that's quite the feat, really. I'm pleased that after four years on the market, and especially at thebureau.news, the platform where I'm breaking similar sort of deep reporting almost every day. So go to thebureau.news and read that type of reporting that was in Willful Blindness.
00:34:20.140yeah no your book is fantastic and and i've told people that before and i strongly suggest folks
00:34:25.760go out and get a copy it gives a real great background give it more understanding kind of
00:34:29.940the whole roots of this whole this whole mess and and then and again as you said the bureau boy yeah
00:34:34.760it just keeps uh uh i look forward to the emails coming into my inbox you guys are covering stuff
00:34:39.520fantastically there so i thank you again sam for your work and for coming on today to talk to us
00:34:45.300Great to be back, Corey. Thanks. Great. Thanks. So yes, guys, that was Sam Cooper. And like I said,
00:34:50.600the book is Willful Blindness. And as I said as well, he's speaking up, he's carrying on. This
00:34:55.960is his issue. He's owned it and he's done a fantastic job with it. So seek him out, check
00:35:01.820it out and see what you got to do with it. Okay. Let's talk about a couple of the questions. I see
00:35:07.140Kenzie said, you know, what about the tariffs with China? And that's another issue
00:35:11.080um that uh is big and uh there's a trade war going on with china and that's being overlooked
00:35:18.220and part of it is we got ourselves into it i say i hate to say we but you know canada
00:35:22.800put tariffs on chinese vehicles which led to reciprocal tariffs which are now harming
00:35:27.700uh farmers in central canada you know through the prairies because the china is one of the
00:35:33.980bigger buyers for seed crops and oil crops and things such as that. And it's just that I brought
00:35:42.280Sam on no more to talk about the interference issue. You know, it's such a difficult thing.
00:35:47.860I mean, China is a huge nation. They are patient. They're smart. The Chinese government,
00:35:55.460uh they they take their time and they look and plan long and it's difficult to deal with as well
00:36:05.560because China provides us a lot of good things I mean that you know our consumer products are as
00:36:10.700low as they are in many many levels because they were manufactured in China if you really want to
00:36:15.800bring things home like like Trump keeps talking about others and we want to reduce the dependence
00:36:19.340there's no doubt about that but if you want to talk about shutting down trade with China
00:36:23.120it could be done, but you better be prepared to spend a whole lot of more money on pretty much
00:36:28.340everything. Now we've let ourselves get into that position. Suzanne saying, I received my book this
00:36:35.560week, Willful Blindness. Thank you, Sam Cooper. Yeah. And Kenzie saying, you know, bought the
00:36:40.920book as well. Again, and that's what's important to support independent journalists like Sam,
00:36:45.200buying the book, subscribing to his thing, the Bureau, because nobody else, you know,
00:36:50.100legacy media is really digging into that. Sam was digging into this when he used to be
00:36:53.820with Global, and he's not with them any longer. And he's really the only one still digging into
00:37:00.900this very important thing. And it's not just China. Canada's a soft touch for a number of
00:37:05.980them. He did mention India. And India has been playing games in Vancouver, you know,
00:37:11.440with stuff going on with the Sikh separatist communities. And those battles are going on
00:37:17.560within Vancouver. We start taking on these battles by proxy and it just shows that Canada's not got
00:37:23.320good control of its own borders, which is really distressing in general. You know, lots of other
00:37:29.580countries are going to come in and meddle around because they're looking out for their own interests
00:37:32.940and they find Canada a good place to do it, especially as we are a good jumping off point
00:37:36.600right next to the United States. Kenzie Singh, I think Sam is a brave man. He is. And when I had
00:37:41.540him on my show last time, he had spoken that there were potentially threats. Like it's a dangerous
00:37:45.960place to get. A lot of the Chinese population who came to Canada still have strong ties in
00:37:54.000China. They immigrated here to start a new life, get away from other things, but they still have1.00
00:38:00.040family members over there and they remain very tight-knit with the communities here in Canada.
00:38:06.920Unfortunately, you see most of these interference cases, the stuff we're seeing going on, the threats,
00:38:10.560the things like that, are by Chinese Communist Party agents within Canada. They have those
00:38:16.720Chinese, they call them police stations within Canada, in Canada. And these are who they tend
00:38:22.200to target are new Canadians who came from China. And they can twist their arms, they can threaten1.00
00:38:26.200their families back in China, or they can threaten them here. And that's why it was so appalling1.00
00:38:31.680for that liberal candidate to threaten his other candidate who was wanted by the Chinese
00:38:36.960communists to say we should turn them in over to them and let the Chinese communists do what0.93
00:38:43.760they will with them. I mean, that's unbelievable when you think about it. And again, it didn't
00:38:47.920make nearly as much of the scandal as it should have. Somebody mentioning the opium wars, and
00:38:54.780we want to go far enough back. Sure, you know, drugs addiction, they've been used as means to
00:38:59.880mess with other cultures for, yeah, centuries. But right now, the problem is the consumers of
00:39:06.240the drugs are all over the world. And in North America, we're dealing with it because fentanyl
00:39:11.480is killing young people here and older people. It's killing people all over the place in Canada,
00:39:17.460the United States. It's an epidemic. None of us have seen anything like this in our lifetime.
00:39:20.500And China is tied in with that. It's a part of it. And again, Sam covers that in his book. He's
00:39:25.780covered that in his most recent posting from the Bureau there. But at the same time,
00:39:32.740we got to worry about paranoia and introversion. And that's what I worry about with some of this
00:39:42.160too. We really do have interference going on. We really do have some people
00:39:45.740being targeted and being pressured, but most of the Chinese population by far
00:39:53.740just want to take part in the economy and live peacefully and happily here like the rest of us.
00:39:58.740You know, one of the things that's, it's fantastic if you travel around, I worked in the oil field
00:40:03.600for 20 years. I hit, you know, I lived in hotels and camps for all that time. One of the neat
00:40:08.600things is no matter where you go in North America, if you go to a town and it can only sustain one
00:40:14.220restaurant, it's 90% likely it's going to be run by a Chinese family. And hey, these things are0.96
00:40:21.100important. If you're in a small prairie town that only has, you know, say a gas station and, you
00:40:27.220know maybe a little hardware in one restaurant I mean having no restaurant sucks guys you need a
00:40:31.940place to gather to get together to grab a meal to do those things and the only folks the reasons
00:40:37.200there's a few reasons that it tends to be run by Chinese people I mean the history of it's really
00:40:40.860fascinating if you want to dig farther into it a lot of it started kind of from the ones left
00:40:44.800you know when the railroad was finished being built over 100 and some years ago they spread
00:40:48.540across the prairies just trying to find places they open laundries and restaurants but nobody
00:40:54.020else can run that tight. I owned a pub and restaurant for a while. And I tell you what,
00:40:58.760I mean, you're talking 5% margins. It's difficult. And in some small town, it's even worse. When you
00:41:03.760have a family who's, and you see the family, they work their butts off. They got the kids serving
00:41:08.140tables after school and they're working in the kitchen night and day and they're doing the works
00:41:12.780there. They're great people. They're a part of the community. They take part, but they are still
00:41:19.480tightly connected back to China too. Not in the interference sense, but just that that's the
00:41:22.860homeland. That's the way it goes. And, uh, they're valuable members of the community. But I finally
00:41:28.120asked one person because his, uh, his name was Jimmy and the name of the restaurant was Jimmy's
00:41:33.780and this Jimmy was only couldn't have been in his thirties, but he has a strong Chinese accent in
00:41:38.920the, in a small town I was in and the restaurant's called Jimmy's, but I knew that the restaurant
00:41:43.120had been called Jimmy's for probably since before I was born. So I said, look, you know, how is it
00:41:49.540this restaurant's you know 80 90 years old you're running it and it's still named after
00:41:53.620you're named jimmy he says well no i moved here with my family i bought it off the last family
00:41:58.040that owned it and i just changed my anglicized name when i got here to jimmy so it matches the
00:42:02.640restaurant and uh the way it works for a lot of those families those he'll be here he gets his
00:42:07.980kids educated in canadian schools they work very hard in the community and then when it comes time
00:42:13.420to retire he'll sell the restaurant often to another chinese family who's coming over to get
00:42:18.240their foothold, you know, to start in North America, too, because I was kind of fascinated,
00:42:21.500you know, it's a restaurant, it's 100 years old, why is that English is so, you know, still a second1.00
00:42:26.800language, because you're a new Canadian. And that's not the case with every restaurant. But
00:42:29.480it's just a cool part of the prairies and small towns, and part of our populations. And I think
00:42:35.760it strengthens us that, you know, these people coming out and working with us and joining our
00:42:40.520communities. So we got to watch when we talk about the bad side, the interference, the Chinese1.00
00:42:45.900government, the Chinese communists, we've always got to remember that the vast majority of the
00:42:50.380Chinese people who came to Canada, they come here to make a life. They're coming to get away1.00
00:42:55.600from the communists. They want no part of it. They want less of that than we do.
00:43:00.980So don't take out the frustration with the unchecked interference issues that are going on
00:43:05.940on the Chinese population in general. That's wrong. That's not doing ourselves favors. It's0.97
00:43:10.280certainly not doing the Chinese new Canadians any favors. What we got to get on to, of course,0.98
00:43:15.500is our bloody politicians who are too chicken to take these issues on too chicken to to really dig
00:43:21.900into the interference issues to the people being threatened the canadians and these are canadian
00:43:26.060citizens even if they're chinese origin that are being threatened by chinese communists here in
00:43:30.540canada this is outrageous this is we aren't doing our job as a as a welcoming country if we can't
00:43:37.820protect people from the government they fled and if our politicians don't have the courage to do it
00:43:43.260So these things are important. And that's why, you know, Sam labeled his book, willful blindness,
00:43:49.840because we've known about this. This has been going on for decades. There were reports in the
00:43:54.380nineties about this problem, but politicians are too chicken shit to take it on. And the ones
00:44:00.500suffering the most are a lot of the new Canadians, Chinese people who are here, fantastic citizens,
00:44:05.420and they're getting targeted and pushed and pressured around. Plus, yes, we've got this
00:44:08.340stuff going on from India and God knows where else because we won't control things within our
00:44:13.760own borders. We're too busy pointing at the crazy orange man south of the border and seeing that's1.00
00:44:18.100our biggest threat. Now, Trump's a pain in the ass and he is crazy, but he's only going to be
00:44:22.580there a few more years. We've got bigger issues. This interference issue has been going on for
00:44:26.200decades and we've really got to sort it out. All right, let's talk a little more about some
00:44:31.120domestic policy though and bring in Crystal Widvrongel from the Montreal Economic Institute
00:44:36.580And well, we could talk a little bit of energy.
00:44:43.280So it's from a couple of weeks ago, but you put a piece out of, you know, we heard a little
00:44:47.440bit about it and it kind of disappeared, but we're talking about, you know, C-69, the
00:44:52.520bill that's supposed to facilitate the construction of major industrial projects.0.97
00:45:00.100We're not going to get rid of it by the sounds of it if the Liberals become reelected anyways.
00:45:04.660And maybe not enough people understand that I think the, the promises of expanding our, our domestic energy infrastructure are pretty hollow if we don't get rid of that bill.
00:45:15.660So really what we were talking about is the impact assessment act, which is part of C 69 and it oversees the major infrastructure in this country.
00:45:24.660A lot of which is the energy stuff that has really been in the limelight lately, especially with all of the issues, tariffs and all of that talk.
00:45:34.660But really, there are very deep problems with the Impact Assessment Act. And we've looked at it at MEI for years, ever since it came in basically in 2019, and have been criticizing it along with other voices.
00:45:47.920um and unless there are some big changes made we're going to continue to see uh investment
00:45:54.500not made in Canada projects not being built jobs not being realized and all of this at a time when
00:46:02.240you know Canadian productivity is really in the dump uh so it's we need to do something about it
00:46:09.000desperately and this act I mean this applies you know we talk mostly about it in Alberta and when
00:46:14.740it comes to oil and gas. And just to remind folks, I mean, you're with the Montreal Economic
00:46:18.920Institute, but you're Western-based and cover a lot of issues out here. But I mean, this impacts
00:46:23.900a lot of things, mining projects, any large resource projects across the entire country.
00:46:30.740Exactly. And so one of the problems with the Impact Assessment Act is there is a list of
00:46:37.520projects or thresholds rather that kind of dictate when you you know pass a certain threshold the
00:46:44.880project will need to be subject to a federal review or if it impacts areas of federal jurisdiction
00:46:52.240like fisheries and these sorts of things that seem fairly clear so you can say okay my project will
00:46:58.320need a federal impact assessment however you can also have you know whoever wanting to start a
00:47:04.800project that is designed within those thresholds, where they think I am within it, I don't need this
00:47:12.000federal impact assessment based on the way that it is outlined. And the Minister can actually turn
00:47:17.440around and say, you know what, you do need it. So even if you design it within the confines of what
00:47:24.080is outlined, there still is the real risk of requiring one which doesn't really do much for
00:47:30.560certainty, especially when we're talking investments in these, you know, huge sums of
00:47:35.520dollars. Well, people have to understand. I mean, even if you're a big company, you're playing a
00:47:40.280long game and you're going to play the game of four or five, six years of applications and
00:47:45.200hearings and consultations and licensing and all that. There's no guarantee that you're going to
00:47:49.560get a thumbs up at the end. You could pour millions and millions of dollars into something
00:47:53.720and still never actually get it off the ground. I can't think of a better way to chill investment.
00:47:58.680I mean, who in their right mind would commit themselves to something like that?
00:48:04.560And so, you know, over the past decade, when investment has been increasing in other areas of the world in these areas, we've seen a decrease in Canada.
00:48:14.120And one of the issues is because of the Impact Assessment Act.
00:48:17.220Since it came in in 2019, there's only been one single project that has successfully went through the entire process.
00:48:25.140And that took about three and a half years.
00:48:26.960And that was facilitated in part because of what's called a substitution agreement, where the federal government with the British Columbia government has stated and has an agreement with them that if they are to do their assessments at the provincial level, the federal government recognizes that as being acceptable and meeting their needs.
00:48:49.920And so it really was that one project, one review that we're hearing about. That's what happened in that case. And so British Columbia is currently the only province that has an agreement with the federal government where they can take that route with their projects.
00:49:05.200So even if we see, you know, a government who doesn't want to repeal or significantly reform the Impact Assessment Act, you know, in the future here, we can only hope that we would see more of these substitution agreements, which is something that the Liberals have stated that they would look into with, you know, a reformed Impact Assessment Act.
00:49:27.700And so, you know, three and a half years is how long that project took, and we can only hope that it speeds up for future projects as we need them desperately in this country.
00:49:36.620Well, yeah, I mean, I think for the first time in, you know, living memory, at least we have appetite across this country, a realization that we have to develop our domestic resources and our ability to get them to diverse markets.
00:49:48.640That's a win sort of, but only if we make sure we're capable of developing and getting those
00:49:55.600resources to those markets. So Mr. Carney has said he won't get rid of the act, but is there
00:50:05.040an ability you think then to amend it, to change it? And I mean, it would have to be done relatively
00:50:09.760fast too, or it's not going to be any better than what we're stuck with.
00:50:12.240yeah so i mean ideally when we see so many issues with something it might be easier just to start
00:50:19.600from square one but if that's not there out we go as a country uh significant reform and amendment
00:50:25.840is needed and can be done um there are certain things that can be targeted so you know having
00:50:32.560these additional substitution agreements to cut down on some of the duplication and streamline
00:50:38.800some of the processing and regulatory burden behind that that's one thing and then having a
00:50:44.880little bit more certainty as I was talking about earlier with the project list or you know if
00:50:50.240you're going to need a impact assessment that's another area that can be amended we can cut back
00:50:56.960on the scope of factors to be considered in an impact assessment because that is a major issue
00:51:03.120it went under the previous legislation from consideration of environmental factors and you
00:51:10.520know health and social these sorts of things to a wide ranging list and really a list that kind
00:51:18.080of can go on and on and so that has been one of the things that has chilled investment as well
00:51:23.280and can be targeted so I mean ideally we you know have something new and fresh but the current IAA
00:51:29.840can be amended in a very targeted manner to hopefully bring some of the certainty back to
00:51:36.760our economy in these areas of major investment. Well, and part of the role of the federal
00:51:43.540government, I mean, you know, it's kind of debatable where it sits, but they should be
00:51:47.020there actually to facilitate projects that cross provincial borders. That's kind of the role of a
00:51:51.480federal government rather than hindering it. In fact, they should sometimes, though I can't
00:51:57.700imagine seeing it almost be able to put their foot down sometimes when one province is hindering a
00:52:02.660neighboring province on some sort of development and say, I'm sorry, but constitutionally you can't
00:52:08.400do that. This project has to go. You know, can something like that be built into the act? I
00:52:16.480mean, pointing out like this is the final authority on this project? I mean, I know that there's been
00:52:22.300some discussion on national interest designations and these sorts of topics within the context of
00:52:28.620the IAA but when it comes to it really uh national natural resource development and resource
00:52:35.260development is a provincial jurisdiction and that needs to be respected so any discussions of that
00:52:41.660manner really need to keep that in account um and you know on the other side of that the federal
00:52:48.140government has been criticized for overdoing it and stepping into areas of provincial jurisdiction
00:52:54.540which is why the iaa was amended last year but also is still open to further future legal challenges
00:53:01.980because some critics do state it still is unconstitutional in that it steps into these
00:53:07.340areas of provincial jurisdiction so there's definitely a balance that needs to be struck
00:53:12.060but it is the provinces that have the jurisdiction with that regard with regard to the project itself
00:53:19.180but if it's a project that crosses provincial borders then it becomes federal like a a energy
00:53:24.460transmission line or a pipeline or a highway for that matter uh i mean again you don't want to
00:53:29.820fight with the province if you can avoid it but at the same time if a province said you know what no
00:53:34.220i'm not allowing that highway through here anymore i i i know the government would step in and say
00:53:37.980well that's unfortunate but you can't do that uh but they seem to allow the provinces to have a
00:53:43.100veto when it comes to pipelines they're kind of selective on where they want to head die on hills
00:53:47.660when it comes to that yeah definitely that one's a lot more political and you know i don't expect
00:53:53.740that to change in the future in terms of the politics surrounding especially pipelines um
00:53:59.740in certain provinces but we will be watching to see with whatever a future government uh whatever
00:54:05.500future government does come in what happens with that and how that is handled so the conservatives
00:54:11.500have vowed to to get rid of and repeal c69 uh the impact assessment act presumably though something
00:54:18.940will replace it uh what would you like to see then in a new i mean something does have to be there
00:54:25.580we we need some degree of regulation we want to minimize it but what should be put in place then
00:54:30.540if we were going back to basics of essentially an environmental assessment and what's needed to
00:54:37.740perfect to prevent environmental damage and to protect the environment that should be sort of
00:54:43.100at the forefront of any sort of new legislation and building on previous legislation but in ways
00:54:50.860that take into account current context so for instance if we are looking at a parcel of land
00:55:00.380that has already been developed in some way if we're adding an additional thing to it so say
00:55:06.220we're adding twinning a pipeline for instance should that need to undergo a brand new impact
00:55:11.820assessment or can that be you know a smaller simpler process so a new environmental assessment
00:55:19.180act of whatever it would be titled could take things like that into account but it would need
00:55:24.380to be up and running quickly especially from the investment certainty standpoint because without one
00:55:30.380or without, you know, any sort of certainty in that regard, that doesn't do much for investment
00:55:35.540certainty either, which we see, you know, a lot of waffling about when it comes to this sort of thing.
00:55:43.900Yeah, it's quite an issue going on with that. What about, you know, I mean, I guess you'd want
00:55:52.380to avoid duplication. That's something else too. I mean, you know, the province is making the same
00:55:56.620demands is the federal government. I mean, the environment's the same darn thing, whether it's
00:56:01.040a federal study or a provincial study for that matter. But I mean, it'd just be tough. You want
00:56:06.960to get fast with it, then I guess if you're bringing in this new act, I mean, the government
00:56:10.560can be as slow in bringing in legislation as they are in utilizing that legislation to get projects
00:56:15.200done. Exactly. And the opposition to it and what that has to look like and taking public interest
00:56:21.740into consideration and those sorts of things like it's it's a very complicated scenario sort of
00:56:27.740either way but um you know as we started off in this conversation about you know the potential
00:56:33.660to reform or amend the impact assessment act you know carney has been on the record saying that
00:56:39.580that would give more certainty um rather than having a brand new piece of legislation that's
00:56:45.020open to legal challenges but I think it needs to be you know reiterated that the current IAA
00:56:52.460does need significant amendment in order to avoid further legal challenge on its own and
00:56:57.100that's something that top legal firms across the country have been saying since the previous
00:57:02.060amendment so we need to make sure to get it right this time whichever way we go with it as a country
00:57:09.020yeah well I believe there was a ruling against that act basically saying it was in violation of
00:57:13.580of the constitution, but it does seem, I don't know, that's a larger discussion in Canada. We
00:57:18.000can have our senior court saying, you're right, this is against the constitution and the government
00:57:21.780says, oh, that's a shame. Well, we're coming full of steam ahead anyhow. And there's not really a
00:57:25.540heck of a lot we can do about it. Yeah. And so I believe the Alberta government has already
00:57:31.180challenged again. And, you know, we're going to see more of that, but also we're going to see
00:57:37.880and changes with whatever government comes in, in the near future here too. So, um, I mean,
00:57:43.880I know that I'm watching and feel quite nervous about it. Um, and I, I'm not a major investor,
00:57:49.720so I can only imagine what that would look like from an investment standpoint. Um, when I'm
00:57:54.360feeling this way, it's just, you know, your everyday regular Calgarian. So. Yeah. I mean,
00:57:59.640we just need a, uh, all they want to see is a framework, you know, here it is steps A to Z.
00:58:04.920these are all the check marks you need to fill but a good assurance that once you get to zed we
00:58:09.400promise you we'll let you start moving dirt and we don't quite have that confidence ability yet
00:58:15.560exactly and that is one of the big problems um and you know i could go into more i know we're
00:58:21.240running short of time here so i won't go too far but um there are other things within the ia that
00:58:27.400really make it um give the potential for further delays in the process um when it comes to politics
00:58:36.760versus policy for instance um that the minister can delay some of these timelines which are
00:58:43.320legislated timelines so a new iaa should have that be really um bulletproof if you will or a
00:58:50.360new piece of legislation where you know a timeline a legislated timeline is a timeline um and that
00:58:55.800needs to be respected um obviously there needs to be flexibility for certain considerations but for
00:59:02.200the most part this is this is a huge problem and we need to look at that as well yeah well you know
00:59:07.720you don't want to the other thing that could happen if the timeline is too long is you can get
00:59:11.800a government change and a rug pull happen to you when you're part way through we saw that with
00:59:15.560keystone where they batted it back and forth oh look at that president trump said we could do it
00:59:19.880We've built it to each side. And then Biden came in and he said, no, we're shutting it down.
00:59:25.560And those lawsuits failed from, from TCPL too. I mean, they just basically said, oh,
00:59:29.880sorry, you're on the hook for, you know, a couple of billion dollars. It's a shame.
00:59:33.800And that's a huge, huge hit to potential investment because either long-term projects,
00:59:39.800like they take many years to build and get up and get running. And so if the regulatory process is
00:59:45.800also, you know, five to seven to 10 years, we will see multiple changes of government, you know,
00:59:51.700at the provincial level and at the federal level over that time span. So it's not doing much for
00:59:58.160people wanting to, or companies wanting to step into that space. The bottom line is we most
01:00:03.900definitely just got to speed it up one way or another, even if it's more fast track thumbs
01:00:08.640down, at least then they know what they're pursuing and they can quit wasting time on it,
01:00:12.680move on to something else. Well, let's hope for the best. As you said, we've been nervous going
01:00:18.880forward, seeing where they're going with this. It seems more like Mr. Carney recognizes that
01:00:24.700it's a problem, but he doesn't seem that eager to deal with it. We'll see, I guess, the day after
01:00:29.960the election. We don't know who the prime minister is going to be after Monday anyways, but
01:00:33.600well, that's one of the things that we hope that stays on the priority, no matter who the government
01:00:37.980is, because we've just got to get this stuff done. So I appreciate the work you guys do with
01:00:42.160the Montreal Economic Institute and keeping the, you know, these issues alive and giving
01:00:45.980some good reports on it. Yeah. I know you guys write on healthcare and a lot of great things as
01:00:49.500well. So before I let you go, where can people find your stuff and keep up with you? Our website
01:00:54.880is www.iedm.org. And we do have offices in Montreal, Calgary, and Ottawa. So MEI is where
01:01:06.080you can find us. Great. Well, thank you again. I always appreciate it when you come on. It's just
01:01:11.500a nice breather of common sense. So I'll let you get back into work. I'm sure you've got some data
01:01:16.720to dig into and translate for the rest of us there on the next reports coming out. So thanks again,
01:01:22.320and we'll talk again soon. Thanks for having me. All right. So again, guys, yes, Crystal Witt-Wrangel
01:01:29.260and look it up, the Montreal Economic Institute. Again, it's almost a misnomer, you know, some
01:01:34.020Albertans worry that, you know, it's an Eastern-based organization or something like that,
01:01:39.940as she said at the end, no, they got offices all across the country and then they really put out
01:01:43.800some good stuff. Those think tanks, you know, they, there's where you can get the tall foreheads
01:01:49.580working on things. And as I said, they can dig into the data, compress it into something more
01:01:54.500palatable for us and, and digestible. And then we can get the summary. And as they've been
01:02:00.740pointing out, as, as Crystal has, that act, that impact assessment act, we've always called it
01:02:07.280in Alberta, the anti-pipeline bill. Because, I mean, it really is built to hinder. You know,
01:02:12.540a more courageous thing on Trudeau's part, I'm going to mention that jerk's name. He's been out
01:02:16.620of sight, but the damage he's caused is far from gone. And his little gang is still there in Ottawa.
01:02:22.900That bill was meant to kill oil and gas development. It always was. Justin Trudeau
01:02:28.420always had that as his ideal. He was said it over and over years ago. We want to phase out the oil
01:02:35.580sands. We want to phase out oil and gas. And he, but he didn't have the balls to come up and just
01:02:40.980say, we're going to ban it, which I, you know, I'm glad he didn't do that, but, but this is a
01:02:47.020backdoor way. We won't ban it. We will just make so much paperwork and garbage and trash and
01:02:52.660regulations that nobody will dare invest in it. And, uh, it worked as Crystal said, only one
01:02:59.780thing has gotten done over the years since that thing came in. And it's hard. Joe Mills saying
01:03:07.680certain provinces have stood in the way of developing theirs and leeched off others. Yes,
01:03:10.940and I know which certain province you're talking about, Joe. This is where we get a tough balance.
01:03:16.060You know, I've had those discussions online. I'm very much big on having provincial independence,
01:03:21.100provincial authority, provincial sovereignty as much whenever possible. But, and this is where
01:03:29.260we come to it. And that's where I, as yes, and independent supporters start questioning
01:03:33.640the point of a federation. The point of a federation is to have some overriding rules
01:03:41.180though, that make it that you can all work to each other's benefit. It means that as I was
01:03:46.940saying to Crystal, you can't stop a railway. You can't stop a pipeline. You can't stop a highway
01:03:52.480because a province, that's federal jurisdiction. The feds are there to just make sure that the0.98
01:03:58.560goods and services can flow across the country, but they lose their balls whenever it comes to
01:04:04.660Quebec. Quebec says we won't allow the pipeline. Now, constitutionally, Quebec has no bloody
01:04:10.460ability to do that. None. Zero. None. A government with courage, and we won't get one, conservative
01:04:17.940or liberal, when it comes to that, because nobody stands up to Quebec. A government with courage
01:04:22.460will say that's too bad. That's a shame, but you can't stop it. It's not part of being within the
01:04:29.020federation. Instead to say, well, we can't do it because the Quebec went less. Another one,
01:04:35.700another area, and this is something in our developments and we've got to start straightening
01:04:40.020some stuff out on, is the indigenous authority. Now, if we got a project that's on indigenous
01:04:47.820land. If it's on a reserve, crosses the reserve or somehow directly impacts the reserve. Okay.
01:04:54.500It's pretty important that we, if it's, especially if it's on their land itself,
01:04:58.340they got a veto. That's different. That's on their land. But we've gotten to this point now
01:05:03.100where we're pretending there's a veto authority for indigenous groups on everything, everywhere,
01:05:07.820all the time. And that's a bunch of bullshit. They aren't sovereign nations. That's bullshit too.
01:05:13.180These land acknowledgements are bullshit. We're trying to build these nations within nations.
01:20:32.320Okay. Well, that's interesting to get back a bit of your youth and a little of the history of
01:20:36.080things. And yeah, Hedy Frye has been in there forever. She pulled off that1.00
01:20:38.480stunt saying they were burning crosses up in Prince George back in the 90s. And yeah,
01:20:43.520she's a special piece of work that one. But Abby Lewis, speaking of NDP pedigree,
01:20:49.040His father, I believe, is Stephen Lois, who was one of the main founders of the NDP in the past.
01:20:54.200Boy, if he won, he would be sort of a natural person to kind of start looking towards to rebuild that party, wouldn't he?
01:21:01.620Yeah, yeah. And I've spoken with him a few times now.
01:21:04.860And that's kind of the sense I'm getting is that he wants to see the party go in a new direction.
01:21:10.620And, I mean, it's pretty obvious that Jagmeet Singh is not going to be leader for much longer.
01:21:17.000But yeah, we'll see. Maybe Lewis can rebuild a party that is, for all intents and purposes, dead.
01:21:25.340Yeah, it's quite interesting. He's just very much an unapologetic socialist, a pure-blood NDPer.0.75
01:21:30.640I just didn't even know he was running. I don't like the thought of him getting too close to power,
01:21:35.180but it certainly adds a new interest to looking at the future of the NDP,
01:21:39.340because people will be saying, who would be leading next?
01:21:40.980But I could certainly see Avi as a natural candidate to try and take that on and start rebuilding.
01:21:47.000Wow. And then we're really starting to get into legacies in Canada. Pierre Trudeau goes down to
01:21:54.080Justin Trudeau. We have Stephen Lewis and Abby Lewis. And Ben Mulroney has been pretty outspoken
01:21:59.060this last couple of years too. You got to wonder if he doesn't have his eyes towards a political
01:22:04.620future as well. We might just... Yeah, you never know. I'm kind of mixed on that. I find it neat
01:22:10.340for trivia, but I'm not sure if political dynasties are good for democracy. Yeah, no, for sure.
01:22:16.160So getting on Vancouver Island, that's another, you know, just neat kind of mix and everything.
01:22:20.480And Aaron Gunn, if you look at some of the polling and everything, he's looking pretty comfortable to potentially win a seat, even though there's been a lot of people screaming that he shouldn't be in the race.
01:22:33.020And we saw there was a protest a couple of weeks ago now of mostly NDP supporters who went to his office and basically voiced their opinion about why they think he shouldn't be in.
01:22:45.240but i think most of the most of the people up in that area of the island they're kind of fed up
01:22:51.740with how things have been over the past few years and we saw that in the provincial election as well
01:22:56.280where you know that that uh that area went blue so aaron gun he's really you know stuck to his
01:23:05.900guns and not uh succumb to all the pressure and and pierre he's actually holding a rally