Western Standard - EXCLUSIVE： Europe furious over Biden blowing up Nord Stream

00:00:00.000 Welcome to another edition of Ottawa Expose. We're not exposing Ottawa today, we're exposing

00:00:15.160 Washington. My name is David Creighton, I'm the Senior Parliamentary Columnist for the

00:00:19.900 Western Standard. I'm joined today by the legendary Seymour Hersh, who really needs

00:00:26.120 no introduction if you've been following journalism and investigative reporting for the

00:00:30.840 last 40 to 50 years. Mr. Hirsch recently wrote an article for Substack that was very explosive

00:00:38.880 and it described an explosion in the Baltic Sea and Mr. Hirsch says he has gained intelligence

00:00:47.860 that says the United States blew up the Nord Stream pipelines.

00:00:54.220 Now, Seymour, I'm not going to imagine in any way where that intelligence

00:01:01.100 and where that information came from.

00:01:02.940 You received it.

00:01:04.320 But I'd like to know before you talk to the individual or individuals

00:01:08.680 who pass this information on, did you suspect from the beginning

00:01:13.120 that the sabotage operation were obviously a U.S. operation?

00:01:19.480 John Haskell- You know, we always have a lot

00:01:22.860 of suspicions about everything, you know, and it's hard to say.

00:01:28.960 Did I brood about it?

00:01:30.260 No, I was probably thinking of other things.

00:01:32.420 But I will say that I'm, I've been around for, what, 50,

00:01:38.460 my God, 300 years as a journalist in Washington writing anonymously

00:01:42.360 about sources and writing for the New York Times

00:01:44.520 and the New Yorker and other places like that,

00:01:46.860 London Review of Books.

00:01:48.440 And so, over the years, I get to know a lot of people.

00:01:52.460 And they become friends too, you know, people on the other side,

00:01:57.880 you know, it's in the intelligence community.

00:02:01.480 And so, last fall, after the, it was, if you remember,

00:02:06.680 the pipeline were blown up on the 26th of September.

00:02:10.420 And then it just, I don't think I, I was doing,

00:02:18.140 I've been doing something else involving a lot of talk

00:02:20.220 to people, like historical stuff about Vietnam,

00:02:23.540 because I did a lot of stuff on Vietnam,

00:02:27.020 and from the massacre of My Lai back in 69,

00:02:30.340 and Vietnam's always been sort of haunting me, because, you know,

00:02:34.720 we say things like, yes, 58,000 American boys died,

00:02:38.300 But, you know, the other side lost two,

00:02:40.000 between two and three million,

00:02:41.520 as if it doesn't make much difference.

00:02:43.340 So, but I just happened to ask somebody about it,

00:02:46.300 and I began to learn a lot about it, and from people involved,

00:02:54.020 and I guess you could say people who maybe, all I can say is,

00:02:58.720 I said people have, I think what I wrote was people had knowledge

00:03:02.180 of the operation, and that's about all I can say.

00:03:05.080 because I know when you're talking

00:03:06.880 about the United States president blowing up pipelines

00:03:09.960 that belong to an ally, at that point,

00:03:11.960 it was called Nord Stream 2.

00:03:14.020 There were two major pipelines from Germany direct,

00:03:17.900 from Russia directly into Germany.

00:03:20.000 The first was called Nord Stream 1.

00:03:21.500 It was, got going in 2011.

00:03:25.120 And it just made, it provided cheap methane gas to Germany,

00:03:31.980 which is a major industrial nation, just built up.

00:03:37.720 It's, for example, it's got a company called BASF,

00:03:40.580 which is the largest chemical company in the world.

00:03:43.440 And it has the automobile dealers we know about,

00:03:45.740 the companies, you know, Mercedes, et cetera.

00:03:50.000 And so it's just, and Europe thrived on this gas.

00:03:54.140 And of course, we always saw, going back to the Kennedy days,

00:03:57.760 We saw the richness of Russia was in its oil and gas,

00:04:02.960 and we always worried about Russia selling stuff directly

00:04:05.760 to the middle, to Western Europe.

00:04:08.240 That was always, we always thought Russia would, 1.00

00:04:10.640 the phrase that Biden's people have used is weaponizing the gas.

00:04:16.300 So that was a longstanding issue.

00:04:17.740 So then, as if Nord Stream 1 isn't bad enough,

00:04:22.000 a second pipeline was built.

00:04:24.260 These are financed, Gazprom, I know the details very much

00:04:29.160 on the first one, owned 51%, had stockholders that owned 51%.

00:04:34.100 It was the Russian company very controlled

00:04:37.200 by oligarchs close to Putin.

00:04:39.140 And obviously, in one year, $45 billion flowed

00:04:42.500 in from this pipeline into the treasury of Russia.

00:04:46.800 So you can imagine how much money that was in there.

00:04:49.600 The other 49% was owned by four companies in Europe

00:04:53.680 who got access to the gas, and they were selling it downstream,

00:04:57.900 which is down the local gas distributors for local homes all

00:05:00.940 over Western Europe and Germany, of course.

00:05:04.300 So everybody was happy.

00:05:05.600 Everybody was warm and comfortable with pipeline one.

00:05:08.860 Pipeline two came at an awkward time for us

00:05:12.720 because we were fighting a war in Ukraine.

00:05:15.360 And we didn't want, at the wish of the United States,

00:05:21.580 I'm not, I shouldn't say wish.

00:05:23.860 All I know is that the German Chancellor a year ago,

00:05:27.440 before that pipeline was completed, Nord Stream 2 was,

00:05:30.400 these are billion-dollar projects, was completed in 20,

00:05:33.340 late 20, early 21.

00:05:34.640 He sanctioned, he stopped it.

00:05:36.200 It's full of gas and he stopped it.

00:05:38.040 Obviously a deference to the wishes of President Biden.

00:05:43.180 Biden has made a stand in the Ukraine against Russia, period.

00:05:48.680 He's made that stand, that's been his issue.

00:05:51.260 He's also made a stand, making a stand against China.

00:05:54.480 I'm not sure where he's going with all of this stuff.

00:05:57.180 But I will tell you that I did work at the New York Times

00:06:00.180 for seven, eight years, and I know how it works.

00:06:03.280 And I can tell you that I don't understand the reporting

00:06:06.040 from the Times and the Washington Post and my old magazine,

00:06:10.380 The New Yorker, because they're presenting a much rosier picture

00:06:13.880 of what's going to happen than I get from my friends.

00:06:15.780 I haven't written about it, but I think we're going to end

00:06:18.660 up in real trouble in Ukraine.

00:06:20.540 And certainly, over the last year, Germany, you know,

00:06:26.100 which is after, you know, they spent a decade destroying,

00:06:29.780 you know, murder, you know, bombing, murdering, 0.64

00:06:31.900 raping Western Europe, they've, to get back 0.97

00:06:35.740 into the good graces, they've sort of very,

00:06:38.300 not much interested in being an army.

00:06:41.120 And so they were being pushed to spend, to invest great,

00:06:44.160 hundreds of millions of dollars, US dollars,

00:06:47.460 in this aid for Ukraine.

00:06:49.580 And of course, they didn't have the same passions,

00:06:55.400 the same with Western Europe, and even some elements

00:06:58.040 in NATO didn't have the same passion for supporting Ukraine

00:07:01.580 as much as we have.

00:07:02.640 We've probably spent $100 billion so far.

00:07:05.880 We've added it all up.

00:07:07.360 Some of this money to come yet, but incredible amounts

00:07:10.340 of money to support Ukraine.

00:07:12.920 And I think by late fall last year,

00:07:15.780 when the pipelines were blown up.

00:07:18.220 And what I did know is that at very best the information going

00:07:22.020 to President Biden, the intelligence that was available,

00:07:25.860 and I'm not sure who read what, was at the best a standoff,

00:07:32.020 a neutral standoff through the next six, eight months.

00:07:35.460 And now it's pretty clear that Russia is not going

00:07:38.540 to lose this war despite what you read in the papers.

00:07:41.280 You know, they're going to defeat Ukraine.

00:07:44.300 And even with all our money and all our arms.

00:07:46.400 And the question is, what do we do if that gets close?

00:07:48.400 Are we going to escalate some more?

00:07:50.200 That was a question.

00:07:51.200 That was a question.

00:07:52.400 Go ahead.

00:07:53.700 David Rubinstein That's exactly the problem.

00:07:56.200 I mean, I think the United States and NATO are fighting not only

00:07:59.600 a losing battle, but one that could potentially lead

00:08:02.500 to a nuclear confrontation.

00:08:04.900 And but if the United States intentionally blew up a pipeline,

00:08:11.000 Is that a declaration of war on Germany, on NATO, on Russia?

00:08:16.440 David Plylariou Well, you got the real problem with the issue.

00:08:19.400 As you know, the White House has emphatically denied this

00:08:22.180 and will never admit it because of just what you asked.

00:08:25.720 I don't know if it's, you know, let's put it this way.

00:08:30.500 It's not only a bombshell for the pipeline,

00:08:32.720 it's a bombshell for Western Europe

00:08:34.780 because in late September is close to October, November,

00:08:40.440 And I think, I don't know what's in Biden's thinking,

00:08:44.320 but the only rational guess or estimate you could have is

00:08:50.440 that Western, you know, the war looks

00:08:53.180 like it's going to get stalemated.

00:08:54.680 It's late September.

00:08:57.000 Winter's coming.

00:08:58.300 The pipeline's been sanctioned by Germany.

00:09:01.340 The first pipeline, Nord Stream 1, was stopped by Putin.

00:09:04.940 He cut it off himself about a year earlier in opposition

00:09:09.460 to the rhetoric that was going on.

00:09:12.220 But the second one was going to be the only means

00:09:17.720 of keeping Europe, Germany and Europe warm and with gas,

00:09:21.900 you know, with low-cost gas and electricity.

00:09:26.560 Gas drives the turbines that produce the electricity in Europe.

00:09:30.220 And don't forget, Europe has no natural resources.

00:09:32.760 So there's, Biden had to worry about the Germans wavering

00:09:38.600 because they're traditionally since the end of World War II,

00:09:41.980 Germany has been very cautious, you know, very cautious

00:09:44.880 about being a military country given its relationship with Europe.

00:09:48.460 I mean, they bombed and raped and killed in Europe for a decade. 0.61

00:09:51.600 And to get in, even to get into NATO, what they did took a lot

00:09:54.460 of the famous phrase was when Willy Brandt,

00:09:57.760 some of your older people would know that when he was their chancellor,

00:10:00.360 it was Ospolitik.

00:10:01.660 Ospolitik meant we're going to be good neighbors.

00:10:04.060 We're going to show you.

00:10:05.200 We're going to be an industrial gold mine.

00:10:06.540 We're going to trade with you.

00:10:07.840 We're going to make things cheaper for you.

00:10:09.140 We're going to get cheap gas for all of you.

00:10:11.900 That was us politics.

00:10:13.400 Anyway, so what happens is you have to say to yourself,

00:10:16.000 German, the German people, and I know this from calls

00:10:19.640 from the Bundestag, I don't do any political talk.

00:10:21.480 I don't talk to anybody in politics.

00:10:22.740 Even in the last 50 years, I'd never testify,

00:10:25.000 even in my own Congress.

00:10:26.340 I'll see congressmen and I'll talk to them privately,

00:10:28.340 but I don't test, I'm not a public figure

00:10:29.900 when it comes to that stuff.

00:10:31.480 And so the Germans, I'm getting a lot of calls from people

00:10:33.900 in Germany and other countries.

00:10:36.200 Some places, the price of heating is five times more.

00:10:40.080 Some places, even more.

00:10:41.640 It's going up like crazy.

00:10:42.900 And in summer, the electrical power that's used

00:10:47.440 to generate air conditioning often comes

00:10:49.800 to the turbines run by gas.

00:10:52.860 So, I mean, we're looking at a real serious problem.

00:10:55.560 Germany and Western Europe's now discovered 0.53

00:10:58.540 that when there's a push, a shove, and crisis,

00:11:01.700 Joe Biden would throw him to the wind and continue to support

00:11:08.840 and cut off their chances of, cut off the chances of Russia 0.95

00:11:13.300 weaponizing its gas to, you know, to tell Europe don't support.

00:11:17.740 And by doing that, he just blew it up so they couldn't waver.

00:11:21.700 He made an amazing statement, but he didn't trust them enough not to waver.

00:11:26.220 And if they got the gas, they would waver, they would be pro-Russian. 0.90

00:11:30.840 It's very primitive thinking, I think, and that's what he did.

00:11:34.160 And he gave the order, and there were Americans

00:11:36.300 who did the bombing, I've written about that.

00:11:38.160 It's not just a story, if you read the story, it's a long story

00:11:42.220 and it's full of specifics, a lot of specifics we don't have

00:11:45.000 to get into, but clearly either I've got a great imagination

00:11:48.900 or somebody's telling me stuff, one of those two.

00:11:51.820 The White House and my old newspaper,

00:11:53.740 the New York Times, obviously sees this as my imagination

00:11:57.080 or that I'm dealing with a source that's a ghost,

00:11:59.020 I'm not sure what they think.

00:12:00.720 But they've called your story fiction,

00:12:03.360 is what their official response was.

00:12:05.180 David Plylarioui Oh, the White House.

00:12:06.480 David Plylarioui But yeah, the White House.

00:12:07.480 But how can they possibly even say that when we have Joe Biden

00:12:12.620 saying he's going to take this pipeline out?

00:12:14.980 And it just seems like too much of a convenience.

00:12:17.380 David Plylarioui He said it in February before these guys

00:12:20.220 in Norway even had much going.

00:12:23.460 But I'll tell you what, if I were a reporter in Washington,

00:12:27.360 which I was, here's what he hasn't done.

00:12:32.200 He's complained bitterly about me through AIDS.

00:12:34.820 Nobody, no senior officials spoken out,

00:12:37.900 the press people spoken out, the same for the CIA.

00:12:40.700 I didn't even ask the CIA because I assume if you ask

00:12:43.000 the White House it's the same, I got a heated denial

00:12:45.360 from an aide, somebody in the press office.

00:12:48.320 And so the President has a very special power.

00:12:51.800 He can task, that's the internal word,

00:12:54.420 He can test the American community to do what he wants.

00:12:58.240 There's something called the Office of National Intelligence,

00:13:00.240 which is through legislation in the last decade or so,

00:13:04.460 that office has become the senior, the boss of all intelligence.

00:13:08.800 And that office has a director of intelligence

00:13:11.220 who has tremendous control over assets.

00:13:13.760 He can get, he can pull everything from the NSA,

00:13:17.300 other agencies, et cetera.

00:13:18.920 So all you have to do if you're the White House

00:13:20.420 and you want to prove that it's not so,

00:13:21.920 task him to give me a paper on it, you know, in late September.

00:13:25.480 Or you can test the, there's an intelligence director

00:13:29.360 in the CIA called the DI, Director of Intelligence,

00:13:33.460 that produces a lot of great reports.

00:13:35.480 A lot of very smart people doing a lot of very smart stuff there,

00:13:37.520 believe it or not. 0.99

00:13:38.820 And there's also a lot of dumb people doing dumb stuff 0.98

00:13:40.820 in the field, but mostly on control or demand of others. 1.00

00:13:44.480 Dumb others. 0.85

00:13:46.560 Anyway, have you had any, have you had any pushback 0.99

00:13:50.860 from the Vice Administration?

00:13:53.060 David Rubenstein, Let me just finish this thought.

00:13:54.460 David Rubenstein, Yeah, sure.

00:13:55.460 David Rubenstein, You can ask that,

00:13:56.460 and there's a secret group inside the agency

00:13:57.960 that does intelligence for our guys in the field.

00:14:00.760 And for our guys in the field doing something covert,

00:14:02.560 we got to know if somebody stumbled onto them.

00:14:05.100 So we monitor a lot of intelligence agencies around them.

00:14:08.660 He hasn't asked anybody anything.

00:14:10.560 Why hasn't the President asked?

00:14:12.160 If he didn't do it, why doesn't he get a report?

00:14:13.960 And that'll tell him who did it, or give him a good clue.

00:14:16.160 I mean, we're awfully good at that.

00:14:17.960 And I assume other countries are just as good at that.

00:14:20.360 I assume the Russians are, but the Russians aren't speaking.

00:14:23.100 But anyway, so that's another question I would ask,

00:14:25.520 but it's not getting asked.

00:14:26.960 Keep on going, David.

00:14:27.960 I'm sorry, interrupt you.

00:14:29.160 David Rubenstein I'm just curious, have you had any pushback

00:14:31.560 from the Biden administration in terms of phone calls,

00:14:35.260 or have they ransacked your apartment?

00:14:37.260 David Rubenstein Cheney once, when he was,

00:14:41.920 before Cheney became vice president, Cheney's very smart,

00:14:44.220 by the way, he may have walked out from Yale,

00:14:46.500 but he's got a very high IQ and very droll in his own way.

00:14:50.620 He's very, he's got a sense of humor.

00:14:52.540 I get a lot of work against him in a way after he, after he, you know,

00:14:58.260 it is a fact that, you know, that al-Qaeda knocked 0.90

00:15:02.320 down two buildings, 9-11 was al-Qaeda, bin Laden,

00:15:06.640 mostly connected, almost tremendously connected to Saudi Arabia

00:15:11.440 and the security people who do stuff

00:15:13.180 for the Saudis are Pakistanis. 0.99

00:15:16.180 but no connection to Iraq because Saddam hated the crazy Muslim 0.99

00:15:22.980 terrorists and no connection to Syria 1.00

00:15:25.620 where because Bashar Assad hated the Muslim terrorists. 0.93

00:15:30.120 So we decided a year and a half after that that the solution 0.51

00:15:33.400 to al Qaeda is to take on Iraq and then we take on Syria.

00:15:38.140 Neither one of which, both of which are led by presidents 0.98

00:15:40.480 who are as hostile to Muslim crazies, radicals as we are. 0.95

00:15:45.180 I mean, so there's always a funny question about, you know, 0.98

00:15:50.860 why it's, you know, who are we to tell somebody else he can't

00:15:54.720 do what he shouldn't do?

00:15:56.020 I will tell you, this doesn't mean that by, I mean,

00:15:59.160 I can tell you, I have no use for any president, you know,

00:16:02.200 Putin starting a war, the most bloodiest war

00:16:05.360 in Western Europe since World War II.

00:16:08.120 I mean, we had the Balkans and we had stuff with the Chestnets, 1.00

00:16:12.460 But this is really much, you know, he, the fact that he did it,

00:16:16.580 it will be a stain on him the rest of his life.

00:16:19.900 So let's get rid of the notion that there's any idea

00:16:23.140 that there was something virtuous that he did.

00:16:24.740 He didn't have to do what he did.

00:16:26.280 On the other hand, he didn't do it without being pushed.

00:16:29.640 He did it without being pushed.

00:16:31.280 We expanded NATO when we promised not to.

00:16:33.700 And we put missiles in Poland that are eight minutes away, 0.92

00:16:36.900 you know, 80, 800 miles away from Moscow.

00:16:39.500 Very aggressive.

00:16:40.700 who made nuclear overnight.

00:16:42.500 Yeah.

00:16:43.900 Just think what would happen if Russia put missiles

00:16:47.140 in Mexico or Canada, or God forbid, Canada.

00:16:49.940 Or Cuba.

00:16:51.240 Well, I served with NATO in Bosnia in 96.

00:17:00.560 And I thought NATO was always a very credible organization

00:17:05.440 for collective security.

00:17:07.640 Now that just about everybody is a member of NATO,

00:17:11.200 it's like nobody is a member of NATO.

00:17:13.440 And I'm not prepared to go to war for the security of Albania.

00:17:17.960 And I don't think a lot of Americans are either.

00:17:20.900 But do you think the irony of this might be that Joe Biden is going on and on and on,

00:17:24.900 but NATO has never been more united?

00:17:27.360 If the United States blew up Germany's pipeline

00:17:31.020 and it's keeping Europe in deep freeze this winter,

00:17:35.200 Could this not lead to the dissolution of NATO

00:17:38.380 or incredible rivalry?

00:17:40.720 Mark McClellan, M.D.: I will tell you,

00:17:42.360 were you serving the armed forces then in 96?

00:17:45.820 Because I had a dear, my college roommate ended

00:17:49.000 up in the Foreign Service.

00:17:50.580 And in order to get to FS01, you know, when he was a two,

00:17:53.380 he had to do, he had to do NATO as a diplomat.

00:17:57.380 I got to tell you, it's the, at that time they had

00:18:00.680 about 28 members.

00:18:02.060 You know, they started with 19 mostly in Western Europe.

00:18:04.320 And then now you have, you know, Spain, you know, Italy is

00:18:07.220 in there with Montenegro, places like that.

00:18:09.020 I don't know who else is in there.

00:18:10.320 I should take a list.

00:18:11.920 I always make a joke that, you know, one of the, maybe it was one

00:18:14.760 of those countries that did the, you know, landlocked countries

00:18:17.100 that did the mining, blew it up, you know.

00:18:18.640 But anyway, NATO was, they celebrate the annual holidays

00:18:25.400 of all the countries, so which means every 30,

00:18:28.600 every other weekend, there's a reason not to go to work,

00:18:31.260 you know, some countries got their national weekend.

00:18:33.860 And anyway, it's just, I think things are heating up in Germany.

00:18:42.920 I know that.

00:18:43.960 Very much anger about, they, clearly, Western Union, 0.82

00:18:48.560 we've always had their back.

00:18:50.820 America's always had their back after World War II.

00:18:53.580 And one of the good things that came out of what we did

00:18:55.700 was rebuilding Europe and making sure the countries

00:18:58.740 were plural societies.

00:19:01.300 I mean, the CIA in some places where it could.

00:19:03.860 Our CIA, for example, in Italy, we threw in with the Mafia 0.91

00:19:07.200 because it was so powerful, and the Christian Democrats

00:19:09.380 were so corrupt, rather than elect a guy leading

00:19:13.460 to the left, you know, in 46.

00:19:15.160 We did that too, and we did the same in Greece.

00:19:17.660 But in Europe, it was pretty much, it evolved

00:19:20.880 into the kind of, you know, great places to live

00:19:24.060 and live and work, you know.

00:19:26.300 And so, you're asking the right question.

00:19:29.920 You know, one person I know well who knows that part

00:19:33.220 of the world very well, a military officer,

00:19:35.820 but in intelligence, said to me, well, the question now is,

00:19:39.420 who's going to be the first country to leave NATO, you know?

00:19:43.480 I mean, I'm serious, because he started something,

00:19:46.680 Joe Biden, that he didn't understand, and that's largely

00:19:50.320 because he's surrounded by these, you know,

00:19:54.220 I call them Lincoln, Blinken, and Nod, Tony, Anthony Blinken,

00:20:00.020 and the Secretary of State, and Jake Sullivan,

00:20:03.160 who ran this little White House operation I was talking

00:20:05.600 about when they wanted to have options on what to do.

00:20:08.900 He was the guy to set up the stuff in a way.

00:20:13.140 And you, what's the name, Victoria Newland,

00:20:18.480 who's the undersecretary, whose husband was one

00:20:21.600 of the leading neocons that pushed in after 9-11

00:20:24.580 to go to Iraq, and so Kagan.

00:20:30.020 And, I mean, it's just, I'm a journalist, but I'm also a citizen.

00:20:37.560 And I think there's something, like you do, there's something really wrong

00:20:42.620 with what we're doing in Ukraine to the point where the President

00:20:47.320 of the United States is willing to throw Germany 0.92

00:20:49.780 and Western Union to the wind.

00:20:52.040 David Plylarozeau Yeah.

00:20:53.340 David Plylarozeau He's afraid they wouldn't support him more

00:20:55.740 in Ukraine for the gas, so he knocks off the gas.

00:21:00.500 That's what he did, and that's exactly what happened.

00:21:02.880 And by the way, the pipeline was full of gas, 750 miles full

00:21:08.000 of methane gas, that's why it was such a big bubble.

00:21:10.060 It wasn't pumping, but they had filled it.

00:21:12.040 David Plylarussohn- Yes.

00:21:13.340 David Plylarussohn- Then they sanctioned it,

00:21:14.980 and once they filled it, they couldn't take it out.

00:21:17.540 And so it had been there.

00:21:18.840 Nothing happened to it in a year, but it just didn't,

00:21:22.400 as you say, the implication of the story is so amazing.

00:21:25.340 I don't think the White House is ever going to acknowledge it.

00:21:27.880 How can they?

00:21:29.780 So it's not .

00:21:31.340 David Plylarioui I don't think the Russian Federation

00:21:34.020 would have dissolved the Warsaw Pact if they knew NATO was going

00:21:38.660 to continue to expand and encroach on its own borders.

00:21:41.620 And it's .

00:21:43.260 David Plylarioui I think they've always considered Ukraine,

00:21:46.800 Russia, as a subculture. 0.78

00:21:48.500 And you know, in the 1930s, 31, 32, there were famines.

00:21:51.920 and Stalin let 22 million die for lack of food.

00:21:55.200 He took the rice up north, up to Russia.

00:21:57.620 So they've always treated it as subculture,

00:21:59.300 and it's a huge country, and it cuts them off from Europe.

00:22:02.540 And he's always wanted that blocking group there,

00:22:04.560 but Putin, the leader of Russia, has always had it.

00:22:07.020 And Putin's not a communist anymore.

00:22:08.560 He's a big nationalist, and he believes in the mythology

00:22:12.880 of Russia, you know, and that's a simple way of putting it.

00:22:15.560 But he's not going to let, he's not going to let there are

00:22:21.260 There are certain provinces that border Russia

00:22:22.980 that he's going to keep, the Nets and others.

00:22:25.180 He's going to keep the Crimea. 0.96

00:22:26.960 I'm sure he's willing to deal about other stuff,

00:22:29.080 but right now it's not going to be able to stay.

00:22:32.840 I think six months ago they could have cut a deal maybe

00:22:34.860 with something, give him a year to stay.

00:22:37.340 But he's not going to stay.

00:22:38.900 And the more we talk and the worse we go, and Biden was just

00:22:43.940 in Europe ginning up the Poles and the Hungarians 1.00

00:22:46.720 who don't like Russia anymore.

00:22:48.740 And everybody, look, NATO never wanted Ukraine.

00:22:54.980 They would be buying into that incredible corruption there.

00:22:58.360 It's just incredible.

00:22:59.660 And now we do things like we're giving them the Patriot missile,

00:23:02.360 which takes a year to train.

00:23:04.180 And each missile costs a million dollars.

00:23:06.460 And the M1 Abrams tank, which runs on almost like jet fuel,

00:23:10.920 very expensive high-end fuel.

00:23:13.260 They're all going to be left starving for gas.

00:23:15.920 And it's full of equipment that you have to train these guys

00:23:18.220 on one side. None of these things have anything to do with it. It's going to be a war in which

00:23:23.980 Russian artillery is going to pound the hell out of the Ukrainians. Ukraine is burning

00:23:30.940 shells at 400 times the rate we did in combat. They burned more in a month than we burned when

00:23:37.580 we were in combat, American soldiers, in a week. The difference is, in America, if you want to

00:23:44.460 to build, get more weapons quickly, you have to negotiate

00:23:47.640 with corporations and get, you know, agreements

00:23:50.360 and contracts and lawyers.

00:23:52.460 In Russia, the armaments factory is state-owned.

00:23:56.360 So he's got it going.

00:23:57.760 He's going to have many more missiles.

00:23:59.060 He's not running out of missiles.

00:24:00.360 It's all the talk about begging from North Koreans 1.00

00:24:02.460 or begging from China.

00:24:04.020 He's got the, he's producing missiles out.

00:24:07.920 And so it's just, the end game is very bad.

00:24:11.460 And what are we going to do?

00:24:13.160 it was in Europe last week, the president ginning up, ginning up support for a war that won't win.

00:24:19.320 I don't, so what's the end game? I don't see. Well, you know, I've, I've been, I've been a hawk

00:24:24.440 most of my professional life as a military officer and as a, a small C conservative pundit,

00:24:31.560 but I have never been more disgusted with the cheerleading that's going on amongst journalists

00:24:37.400 in Canada, in the United States, and in Europe pushing us

00:24:43.120 towards this nuclear confrontation.

00:24:46.380 I don't know.

00:24:47.760 I think, believe it or not, despite what you've read,

00:24:53.180 I read what Putin has said.

00:24:55.480 I read the translations.

00:24:57.300 In Sochi, once, years back, he said, you know,

00:25:00.060 if we have to all go to hell, we're going to all go to hell. 0.84

00:25:02.360 But I don't think we're going to hell.

00:25:03.500 If it's a nuclear holocaust, I still think we'll go to God. 0.98

00:25:05.840 He said, but that's, but since then, their doctrine is really plain

00:25:10.700 about no first use.

00:25:12.100 And I don't, I'm serious.

00:25:13.600 It's a really strong doctrine.

00:25:15.540 And so, what that means if it's going to get started,

00:25:20.840 it might not be by him, you know?

00:25:22.900 I don't know what to tell you.

00:25:24.540 It was, I'm sorry.

00:25:26.440 David Plylaroza A. I really think this is like the First World War

00:25:30.980 in that we seem to be sleepwalking towards this inevitable confrontation.

00:25:35.400 And it's not inevitable.

00:25:36.900 We need to start talking peace in Ukraine.

00:25:40.200 And we're stumbling into this potentially

00:25:42.840 catastrophic situation.

00:25:46.000 David Rubenstein, Jr.: Well, as a military guy,

00:25:47.800 then you know you've read about, you know, 0.87

00:25:49.960 the dumbest war fought was World War I. 0.93

00:25:52.940 You know, the trench warfare would, you know, it's just, 0.98

00:25:57.500 it's, every time I start reading about World War I, you know,

00:26:00.960 the literature, the poetry, Sassoon, and the lines.

00:26:05.340 It's just amazing.

00:26:07.840 On the other hand, there should be, in America,

00:26:12.220 what we're missing is a military voice saying what you're saying,

00:26:15.360 a high level one.

00:26:16.660 They're not.

00:26:17.960 I don't, the last, the new chairman, the chairman of the JCS,

00:26:24.340 the last couple have been not much Millie

00:26:26.740 and the guy done before him.

00:26:28.560 The last good chairman was a guy named Norm Dempsey,

00:26:31.600 who was chairman, and he retired in 05 after four years.

00:26:34.960 And here's where the press is strange.

00:26:36.820 We, I'm sorry, I've got to turn off my phone.

00:26:39.280 I just, I thought I'd have done it.

00:26:40.580 It's okay.

00:26:41.880 You know, what I thought I did, but who cares?

00:26:43.540 Phone rings a lot.

00:26:44.860 I'm sure it does.

00:26:46.160 I'll tell you something about Norm Dempsey.

00:26:48.460 He was, went to West Point, majored in English, and was one

00:26:53.540 of the few West Pointers that was allowed to go

00:26:55.360 to graduate school for two years.

00:26:57.260 He went to, I don't, was it Duke or, he went to some competent

00:27:00.580 school and he studied Yeats poetry, Irish poetry,

00:27:03.880 which he was interested in music.

00:27:05.680 Got his master's degree and then became a warrior,

00:27:07.760 became a division commander in combat, made four stars,

00:27:11.320 made the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

00:27:13.580 And so when he retires, there's a retirement ceremony.

00:27:16.720 It's on YouTube or some place.

00:27:18.420 You know, it's had me a couple of them.

00:27:20.040 Last time I looked about me and something his.

00:27:23.280 And this retirement ceremony, instead of giving the bellicose

00:27:27.040 speech there, though this is Obama and everybody's giving,

00:27:32.120 oh la la la, he sang an Irish ballad about it's been a good time,

00:27:36.060 farewell my troops, I'll miss you.

00:27:38.000 And then on cue, I guess, instead of the speech, he looked

00:27:42.840 and nodded and his children, he had three or four children

00:27:49.320 with a lot of grandchildren, they let all the kids come

00:27:51.360 and they all ran and they jumped into his arms.

00:27:54.680 That was his farewell statement.

00:27:57.320 And the next day, this is August 31st, the next day,

00:28:01.760 Instead of going in six corporate boards, as every chairman has

00:28:04.700 for, you know, $3 million and building a house on the bay,

00:28:09.520 you know, by Annapolis, you know, the Chesapeake Bay,

00:28:12.040 there's a lot of beautiful homes there, he went and joined the faculty

00:28:16.420 at Duke as a visiting professor of military ethics

00:28:20.620 and literature or poetry, and nobody picked it up.

00:28:25.360 Nobody reported on it.

00:28:27.000 We don't honor the, we only honor the guys that, you know,

00:28:30.440 do their four years and stumble around and walk in the Raytheon

00:28:34.300 or Bose Allen and make billions.

00:28:36.600 It's so interesting to me how we miss things.

00:28:39.280 You know, you miss them.

00:28:40.580 And so we're in trouble.

00:28:43.340 We're in trouble.

00:28:44.640 We're in real trouble because we don't have the military leadership we want.

00:28:47.580 Those guys are still planning for in case Russia wins, 0.89

00:28:51.680 they're still thinking about what kind of peace

00:28:53.940 of dream we're going to have with Russia. 0.52

00:28:55.640 I'm serious.

00:28:57.040 I know I can't make this up.

00:28:59.000 I'm serious.

00:29:00.400 That's one of the planning groups.

00:29:02.000 I'm sure you have a lot of planning groups for everything.

00:29:03.960 That's pretty comical.

00:29:05.200 I don't know what they smoke over there or what's in the water.

00:29:08.320 Steve Winickman Sweeney Well.

00:29:09.620 Steve Winickman Sweeney They come out and these retired guys

00:29:11.580 that go on TV for CNN and MSNBC and other places.

00:29:15.040 Steve Winickman Sweeney And Fox, yes.

00:29:16.260 Steve Winickman Sweeney Fox.

00:29:17.600 They're out there.

00:29:18.600 They're in some zone that doesn't exist.

00:29:20.360 Steve Winickman Sweeney No, they're all itching

00:29:21.700 for a war with Russia.

00:29:23.000 Steve Winickman Sweeney Of course.

00:29:24.000 Steve Winickman Sweeney Well, yeah, you got it.

00:29:25.300 Steve Winickman Sweeney Yeah.

00:29:26.600 Steve Winickman Sweeney What branch were you in?

00:29:28.100 Air Force.

00:29:29.400 Ron Charles- Oh, yeah, were you raided?

00:29:30.700 Were you up in the air?

00:29:32.000 Were you on the ground?

00:29:33.300 What were you doing?

00:29:34.300 Ron Charles- Well, I was up in the air a lot,

00:29:35.600 but I was a public affairs officer.

00:29:36.600 I was a flak.

00:29:38.000 So I was, I knew the, I knew where the skeletons were buried.

00:29:42.100 Ron Charles- Well, John Kirby is the current flak

00:29:44.600 for the Joint Chiefs.

00:29:45.900 Ron Charles- And I've never seen a more incompetent person

00:29:47.500 in my life.

00:29:48.800 Ron Charles- Well, but actually, he was at, he's not,

00:29:50.800 he's just doing the job.

00:29:52.100 I knew him back when he was at the Pentagon as a spokesperson there.

00:29:55.200 And I was, this is, I did a lot of stuff on CIA operations

00:30:00.520 that were really crazy in places like Iran for the New Yorker.

00:30:04.400 And I was interfacing with him a lot.

00:30:06.320 I always liked him.

00:30:07.540 And I saw him, I talked to him about this long before I published

00:30:13.740 because that's what I do, I just give a heads up.

00:30:16.640 And I was surprised to see John out there doing peddling.

00:30:21.600 And last week he made a statement,

00:30:23.760 same statement they made earlier but that made news and so they got him to do it but they haven't

00:30:29.840 got sullivan to do it or blinken i don't want to i'm maybe i'm going to force them to do it or

00:30:35.600 victoria newland or the president to say anything or the head of the cia and then i don't see those

00:30:40.560 guys talking look they did it they're stuck they did and even if somebody inside admits it they'll

00:30:48.880 say, that's just wrong.

00:30:51.020 Show me a video.

00:30:52.780 You know, they're not going to stop denying it.

00:30:55.880 And what they get away, as you know, they have, you know,

00:31:00.380 much too much authority, I think, much too much briefing

00:31:02.940 of the New York Times and the Washington Post.

00:31:05.240 And so they've managed to cool those papers out, tell them,

00:31:07.440 I'm sure privately say, he's absolutely wrong.

00:31:09.740 He's gone nuts on this and all this stuff that they say.

00:31:12.800 And but, you know, in the long run, you can't stop,

00:31:19.200 can't stop truth from coming and something will happen.

00:31:21.940 Stephen Winick- Something will happen.

00:31:23.640 Stephen Winick- Now, your most recent article I was reading,

00:31:26.880 you have discussed how the Norwegians have historically played a role

00:31:32.060 with assisting the United States in their wars.

00:31:35.620 I find it fascinating that the United States never declared war

00:31:40.040 in Vietnam but yet waged war in Vietnam for 11 years.

00:31:43.800 Are they doing the same thing?

00:31:45.840 Is this like the Gulf of Tomkin resolution?

00:31:48.800 Stephen Winick- The piece I did, it was Wednesday.

00:31:51.280 I did, I mean, I did it because for two reasons.

00:31:54.600 Everybody's denying everything about the story.

00:31:59.100 Norway, why would Norway do it?

00:32:00.640 Norway was a big player in North Vietnam before the war was declared.

00:32:05.520 Norway had, the Norwegians are great seamen.

00:32:08.420 And they have, they, beginning about late 19, in the 1980s,

00:32:13.780 we ran what they call PT boats in World War II.

00:32:16.860 You know, John Kennedy and the PT boat.

00:32:19.180 And by the way, John Kennedy, I read a lot of his letters

00:32:24.260 that he wrote to people when he was overseas.

00:32:26.520 He's a very witty, funny, charming guy.

00:32:29.080 And I just wish he'd stayed out of politics

00:32:33.660 because he wouldn't have had Vietnam.

00:32:35.080 But anyway, it's another story.

00:32:36.860 But there was a lot of, he was, had a lot of, you know,

00:32:39.300 he was, he was apparently quite an attractive man.

00:32:42.620 And so, and so Norway built a super PT boat.

00:32:48.820 They have some funny word for a lot of armaments, fast and good.

00:32:52.820 And they sold a bunch to America.

00:32:54.900 And then they sent a bunch in about 2000, early 2000,

00:32:58.780 in 1964, early on.

00:33:01.040 We were only fighting in the south and we undeclared war.

00:33:04.340 But we were also doing some stuff on the north

00:33:06.280 that they admitted, you know, that they were doing some patrolling

00:33:09.380 and one of our ships was fired on by a PT boat.

00:33:13.400 And that led to Johnson to make the speech that led to the Congress,

00:33:16.960 a speech saying they, we've told North Vietnam to stay out 1.00

00:33:20.640 and they attacked our ships and I have to respond by bombing the North 0.87

00:33:23.960 for the first time, all that stuff.

00:33:25.300 I wrote, that speech was only five minutes.

00:33:27.600 It's in the piece I just wrote Wednesday, I put on Wednesday.

00:33:30.600 Why? Because Norway was deeply involved in the dirty war we were running 0.99

00:33:35.640 for at that time probably for close to a year.

00:33:38.200 It was nine months or six months anyway, for sure.

00:33:41.100 Longer than that probably.

00:33:42.600 And not only were they running operations on the coast

00:33:45.360 of North Vietnam, the Norwegians were involved

00:33:49.240 in manning the boats.

00:33:50.800 They're great sailors and they know how to do stuff.

00:33:53.360 They know how to shoot guns and they're tough.

00:33:54.660 They don't like communists any more than, you know,

00:33:56.520 most people in America don't.

00:33:58.660 And Navy SEALs were involved in doing kinetic operations inside.

00:34:04.260 And they, and I wrote that some even got wounded badly

00:34:07.360 and as a seal can, they're really tough,

00:34:10.200 crawled their way back to a pickup point and they got a rescue

00:34:13.420 and they got the Medal of Honor all in secrecy.

00:34:15.500 All this was being done without anybody in America knowing it

00:34:19.560 with the idea of provoking,

00:34:21.300 convincing North Vietnam to stay out of it. 0.95

00:34:23.560 And North Vietnam just kept on going, sending people down.

00:34:26.780 And so Johnson, they manipulated when one of the,

00:34:31.400 our destroyer in, they thought there was a submarine,

00:34:35.400 a torpedo attack on them.

00:34:37.900 And the commander issued a signal, you know, message report, alert,

00:34:42.100 you know, it's a critic they call it.

00:34:43.800 Probably went right to the White House.

00:34:45.100 I'm under attack.

00:34:46.400 And then he rescinded it 20 minutes later saying no, no,

00:34:49.300 it was just a stoner guy.

00:34:50.900 There was a lot of high waves and they were all rattled

00:34:53.200 and he made a mistake.

00:34:54.800 You know, I can tell you, I'm not shocking anybody,

00:34:57.200 but some guy in the, you know, in the bottom of a,

00:35:00.260 of a destroyer or American cruiser spends a lot

00:35:03.440 of time reading, you know, reading porn.

00:35:05.760 Believe me, having been there.

00:35:09.740 That's a big deal.

00:35:11.040 Anyway, I don't know, but maybe in the public office,

00:35:13.800 but socialism's office, you didn't dare bother.

00:35:15.780 But anyway, that's what you do when you're 22

00:35:18.120 and you're locked up below, you know, nine hours,

00:35:20.460 12 hours a day anyway.

00:35:22.720 But he screwed up.

00:35:24.100 And what McNamara and Johnson did,

00:35:26.500 They ignored the second cable saying it's not true,

00:35:29.060 and they used the first cable as justification

00:35:31.860 for bombing the North.

00:35:33.200 So I wrote that because it's parallel to where we are now.

00:35:36.980 He's committed, I didn't say an act of war.

00:35:39.760 I don't think I wrote that.

00:35:41.060 He's committed a great mistake.

00:35:43.380 He screwed up.

00:35:44.680 He's told the North, he's told rather Germany,

00:35:48.800 it's like an analogy with, he's told Germany and NATO,

00:35:54.140 When push comes to shove, I'll throw you over the wall.

00:35:56.240 You can be cold. 0.99

00:35:58.740 I don't care. 1.00

00:36:00.040 If you're not giving enough money to Ukraine, screw you. 0.98

00:36:02.440 That's what he's done. 0.74

00:36:03.740 And he's basically lied when he says he doesn't do the,

00:36:07.640 he's lying now to push us in the war,

00:36:09.840 like Johnson lied to push us in the war.

00:36:11.640 That was the purpose of that piece.

00:36:13.240 And I actually have more to say on that issue,

00:36:15.240 and I'll do it again next week.

00:36:16.940 I'm going to, you know, it doesn't, you know,

00:36:19.840 I don't know what's going to make the major papers

00:36:23.540 and the networks of America begin to wake up

00:36:25.740 that there's something going on here.

00:36:27.440 Anyway, you and I have yapped too long.

00:36:29.140 I've got to go.

00:36:30.440 I haven't had.

00:36:31.740 David Plylariou I know.

00:36:33.140 This has been fascinating because I think what happened

00:36:35.440 with Nord Stream is the historical equivalent

00:36:39.040 of the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand in 1914.

00:36:43.640 David Plylariou Don't say that.

00:36:45.140 I haven't gone there in my thinking.

00:36:46.840 I just want, I mean, look, guess what?

00:36:51.940 I think you're totally right.

00:36:53.540 But, you know, the good thing is, in the real world,

00:36:56.380 it doesn't matter where you or I think, you know.

00:36:59.940 I watch cable, I stop watching cable television in America,

00:37:02.840 CNN, MSNBC, and all that stuff.

00:37:05.140 I don't like Fox News, even though Tucker Carlson's interesting

00:37:08.800 because he's very, I've known him years ago.

00:37:11.040 He's very smart.

00:37:12.340 I don't, you know, I'm not into the politics,

00:37:14.400 but he figured out right away what's going on with the pipeline.

00:37:19.080 And he wasn't afraid to say it, like on other people.

00:37:21.980 But I will say this, that when I watch cable news,

00:37:25.840 they'll have some serious issue, and then they'll have a panel on.

00:37:29.120 And so, let's say it's a bunch of journalists,

00:37:31.420 something that's going on in the media, and they'll say

00:37:33.280 to three White House chiefs, you know,

00:37:35.680 I don't know why all these reporters go on TV so much.

00:37:37.920 I never did when I was a reporter at the New York Times.

00:37:40.020 Anyway, and they begin to say, so what's the thinking

00:37:42.240 at the White House?

00:37:43.480 And the three panels all begin with the first two words

00:37:45.940 that are the most deadly in the world, I think.

00:37:48.180 So, it doesn't matter what you and I think

00:37:51.660 about whether this is going to be a 1914 review again.

00:37:55.300 But it does matter that we are thinking that way.

00:37:59.520 You know, in other words, yeah, this could be the beginning

00:38:03.460 of not something nice, something very un-nice.

00:38:07.160 Steve Winick- Yeah.

00:38:08.500 Steve Winick- All right, wonderful cheery note.

00:38:09.800 I'm going to go back to whatever I'm doing.

00:38:11.360 What am I doing today?

00:38:12.580 Steve Winick- Okay.

00:38:13.980 Steve Winick- I don't know.

00:38:15.280 Steve Winick- It was a pleasure

00:38:16.280 and an honor to talk to you today.

00:38:17.580 I've been a fan for all of my professional life in your work.

00:38:22.580 And keep it up.

00:38:23.600 Keep it up, my friend.

00:38:25.060 Let me tell you something.

00:38:29.240 It's important for guys like you who care about stuff to do what you do.

00:38:35.900 It just is.

00:38:36.580 And right now, you're a very distinct minority in the media crowd.

00:38:43.300 You're somebody who actually figures out that there's a problem here

00:38:45.880 and wants to do something about it, and I think that's great.

00:38:49.800 That's why I'm here.

00:38:50.720 Goodbye.

00:38:51.040 I'm going to whether I'm going to.

00:38:52.740 Okay.

00:38:53.300 I think I have to go shopping or something, something like that.

00:38:56.200 Okay.

00:38:56.740 You have a good day, and I hope we can speak again.

00:38:59.720 Thank you.

00:39:00.500 Did you get blasted by this last storm or not up there?

00:39:04.440 Yes, but not as bad as you did.

00:39:08.520 Anyway.

00:39:10.060 You don't talk like a next.

00:39:12.120 No, who?

00:39:13.120 None of that.

00:39:13.940 None of that.

00:39:14.480 No.

00:39:14.960 Big vowel.

00:39:15.420 Ron Charles- None of that, no.

00:39:16.720 Ron Charles- Why not?

00:39:18.020 Ron Charles- Probably because I grew up on the west coast

00:39:21.760 of Canada and near Vancouver.

00:39:25.420 Ron Charles- I got to tell you something.

00:39:27.360 My wife and I have gone hiking up there,

00:39:29.640 up towards Whistler, you know, in the summer you can hike

00:39:33.260 up to Glacier Lakes.

00:39:35.380 It's an unbelievable part of the world.

00:39:37.360 You know, I don't know, you guys know, it's just great.

00:39:40.620 I always, one of the great parts,

00:39:41.920 Vancouver is one of the great cities in the world too.

00:39:44.020 Ron Charles- It's gotten too big though.

00:39:45.320 It's gotten too big.

00:39:46.320 It's gotten too big.

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Western Standard - February 27, 2023

EXCLUSIVE： Europe furious over Biden blowing up Nord Stream

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