Western Standard - EXCLUSIVE： Former MP, Jay Hill on federal issues.

00:00:00.000 You've had a long history. You're a member of parliament for I believe 17 years. You went through a number of party incarnations. You were the party whip as well in there. Then you were the interim leader of the Maverick Party, but now you're kind of a statesman, I think is the best term I could put for it.

00:00:14.480 Well, I guess some people are calling me the founder. I guess that's better than flounder. Myself and a small group, as you know, got Maverick Party started about two years ago. We morphed, if I can call it that, out of the old Wexit Canada Party. We completely changed the philosophy and the mission statement and the principles and the policies and pretty much everything else.

00:00:41.900 And when we formed the Maverick Party about 20, 20 months ago, something like that, less than two years ago. So it's been quite a journey and I've enjoyed it. But now we've handed it over to our new elected leader that the members elected on the 14th, Colin Krieger. And thank you for coming to our event.

00:01:00.160 Well, no problem. No, I was there to cover it. And I've had Colin on the show to talk with him. It'll be interesting to see how that party develops. And I want to talk a bit about that. I mean, you were involved in, you know, grassroots party development way back.

00:01:11.900 Back from the reform days, I was a young, long haired guy knocking on doors for Art Hanger way back then. But it's a lot of work and it's difficult and it's hard to gain traction.

00:01:23.220 Right now, like in provincially, I've mentioned that before, too, because now provincially, we're into a leadership race here. We've got two leadership races going on.

00:01:29.840 Those really suck the oxygen out of any alternative movements. You know, that's the potential period of renewal for either of those parties. People think they could be reformed, think they could be fixed.

00:01:38.780 And sometimes it does fix the party. Sometimes it doesn't. But boy, it really drains the market dry, I guess, for those alternative movements.

00:01:47.100 Yeah, it certainly, you know, sucks the oxygen out of the room, as they as they like to say.

00:01:51.940 Yeah, we've got the CPC, the Canadian Conservative Party of Canada running theirs. Of course, that's been underway for a bit of time now.

00:02:04.040 Personally, I was, you know, very dismayed, I guess, by the fact that they disqualified a number of candidates.

00:02:11.700 I thought it would be have been a better open race with more alternatives for Conservative members.

00:02:17.440 Hopefully that doesn't happen with the UCP race, which is not yet underway.

00:02:21.900 But my understanding is this week they're striking a committee to decide on the rules to replace Mr. Kenny, Premier Kenny.

00:02:30.300 So we'll have to see how that goes. I mean, from my point of view, and it'd be interesting discussion,

00:02:35.680 because you used the word renewal. And I think that both the Conservative Party of Canada and the United Conservative Party of Alberta

00:02:45.000 have quite a task ahead of them in trying to not only win the support and unify their own parties

00:02:51.920 and the membership of those parties, which are incredibly fractured at both levels,

00:02:56.520 but also to attract and unify, in the case of the UCP, Albertans.

00:03:01.560 And my personal belief, Corey, for that to happen is going to take someone outside, not a recycled politician,

00:03:09.420 not somebody from within the current cabinet or the current Conservative structure,

00:03:14.060 but it's going to take somebody from what I used to call the real world,

00:03:17.500 somebody outside of mainstream United Conservatives,

00:03:21.100 because we have to look beyond winning the United Conservative leadership race.

00:03:25.140 I think we have to look towards winning that overused phrase, the hearts and minds of Albertans.

00:03:32.760 Everybody that's a non-socialist should be looking at preventing the return of Rachel Notley.

00:03:39.160 Well, that's the worst thing that we can see happening from an economic and a number of standpoints.

00:03:43.400 I think David Price, I don't know if you know him, but he's going to be chairing that committee.

00:03:47.940 He's a young fellow. He was involved quite a bit in the Wild Rose in the past,

00:03:50.360 and a very good principled young man. So it's a good sign, you know,

00:03:53.800 because he really sticks to the rules on things that they will come up,

00:03:57.140 because they had so many questions at the last leadership race.

00:04:00.580 The mistrust starts even before you get out of the gates,

00:04:02.580 if you have just even questions, whether fair or not, coming out of your process.

00:04:06.140 So hopefully, you know, David and the others will really make sure they've got a bulletproof process.

00:04:10.460 As you said, make sure they let in a broad selection of candidates.

00:04:12.860 It doesn't look like an inside game, because if it looks gamed or rigged,

00:04:17.040 members and voters alike are just going to say, 0.99

00:04:19.380 ah, you guys, it's more of the same crap, and they'll reject it. 0.99

00:04:22.040 Well, and you certainly drew attention to that as the party went through all the 0.99

00:04:25.880 machinations towards voting, or the reveal of the vote,

00:04:30.320 the mail-in vote for Jason Kenney's support or lack of.

00:04:34.160 And you in particular and Western Standard were at the forefront of drawing attention

00:04:38.960 to all the potential problems that resonated from that.

00:04:42.060 And the fact that if it wasn't done properly, with a proper, believable result,

00:04:48.000 then you've only reinforced the distrust of Albertans,

00:04:52.800 and in particular, United Conservative members.

00:04:55.160 Yeah, well, and trust is everything.

00:04:56.560 And I think some of that was lost with Premier Kenney.

00:04:59.300 And personally, I still think they were in a no-win situation.

00:05:02.440 You know, he came in just over 50%.

00:05:04.480 He'd said 50% plus one, but I'm sure in his mind, he had a different number.

00:05:07.680 You just have to say that.

00:05:09.080 Clearly, that wasn't enough to feel comfortable with a mandate.

00:05:12.100 But as others had said, well, what if he came in with 75%?

00:05:15.100 Well, people say, well, I won't believe it.

00:05:16.480 Well, then he wasn't, there was no winning.

00:05:18.220 You know, the party was unfortunately irrevocably ruptured.

00:05:22.100 But it's the trust thing.

00:05:22.940 So they've got to do this exercise and keep trust this time.

00:05:26.440 Well, and I think that most of us that have been part of politics,

00:05:30.140 Corey, for many, many years, more years than you and I probably care to admit,

00:05:35.780 recognize that probably what should have happened is Jason should have resigned prior to that.

00:05:40.860 Prior to going through that.

00:05:42.400 Because as you say, it was a no-win situation for him anyway, because the trust had been broken.

00:05:47.540 For whatever reason, multiple reasons, it had been broken.

00:05:50.740 And so you can't win because, as you say, if you had a higher number,

00:05:54.920 higher than Joe Clark's two-thirds or whatever it was in the day that he decided wasn't sufficient.

00:06:00.760 So if he would have had a higher number, it wouldn't have been believable.

00:06:03.780 And if he came in lower than that, then he was forced to resign anyway.

00:06:07.780 So he probably should have just resigned and started the process two or three months ago.

00:06:13.040 The party would have had more time before the next election to get a new leader in place

00:06:17.420 and start to build momentum and hopefully unity amongst non-socialist Albertans.

00:06:23.260 Yeah, well, and that unity thing.

00:06:25.120 And so, I mean, I'll pivot a bit to the federal front.

00:06:28.020 We've got a race going on there.

00:06:29.700 And as you said, I mean, one of the things we never really did find exactly,

00:06:32.500 a couple of those candidates apparently came up with the signatures, came up with the deposits,

00:06:36.340 but the committee just still said, no, we'd rather you weren't taking part in the race.

00:06:40.800 And they disqualified them.

00:06:42.040 And right off the bat, again, that just makes it sound like an inside game.

00:06:45.440 And that really, particularly, I think, with conservatives, frustrates them pretty fast.

00:06:48.560 Absolutely.

00:06:49.520 And it should.

00:06:50.500 I mean, it leaves a bad taste in all our mouths when you see, you know, who?

00:06:55.480 I mean, a small little group that forms the committee to run the leadership race of a party.

00:07:00.840 It doesn't matter what party it is.

00:07:02.520 And if they're the ones making the decision of who gets to run and who doesn't,

00:07:06.560 who gets to take their message, their vision to the membership and who doesn't,

00:07:10.800 it doesn't sit well with your rank and file membership.

00:07:13.760 That's going to hurt membership growth, hurt retention of members as they move towards the September voting day.

00:07:20.860 I think, you know, there's going to be members, memberships, obviously, that will expire between now and September.

00:07:26.920 And when you start to sow those seeds of distrust, it's incredibly hard to build it back.

00:07:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:07:32.260 And people will keep bringing it up over and over.

00:07:34.600 And I mean, the other thing is, I'm worried about this.

00:07:36.480 It's such a long campaign period they got going.

00:07:38.400 And it's already such a vitriolic campaign.

00:07:41.680 You know, this, you end up with a solid winner, but you have a lot of people marching out of the room

00:07:46.320 when you've had such a hostile and personal sort of campaign, and they've still got months to go.

00:07:52.120 I'm really worried about what's going to be left of that party, no matter who wins it at the end of this.

00:07:55.520 It's a real concern.

00:07:57.140 And that's an excellent point.

00:07:58.240 And as we head into the UCP leadership race to get back to the provincial side of things, Corey,

00:08:03.300 I hope that they learn a bit of a lesson from the federal party and say, like, we don't want to behave like that.

00:08:11.160 Because as I said, the challenge and the timelines are much, much shorter.

00:08:14.960 And people need to understand that the timeline to get a leader in place for the UCP

00:08:20.800 and hopefully coalesce that non-socialist Albertan vote behind whoever he or she is, is very short.

00:08:29.420 As you know, the election is scheduled for about a year from now.

00:08:32.260 By the time we get the new leader in place and, you know, promote that person, promote that person's vision,

00:08:40.320 hopefully to reunite non-socialist Albertans, it's going to be a very short timeline.

00:08:46.880 Hopefully, unlike what the federal conservative leader will face after September,

00:08:52.640 there will hopefully be more time for them to get established and get their profile known

00:08:56.760 and get, hopefully, convinced Canadians to support them.

00:09:00.480 So it's interesting, the juxtaposition between the two races.

00:09:04.440 Can one learn some lessons from the other?

00:09:06.960 Hopefully.

00:09:08.560 Certainly, this vitriolic adversity that we're seeing between the supposed frontrunners at the federal level

00:09:16.740 hopefully will not be transmitted to the provincial race once it kicks off.

00:09:22.160 Well, yeah, provincially and federally, I see somebody else, you know, mentioned the PPC

00:09:25.840 and then, of course, there's Maverick as well.

00:09:27.760 Like, I can't forget, there are others waiting the wing.

00:09:31.080 So if you've got 20% of your membership disgruntled or more after such a personal race,

00:09:36.660 they will go somewhere else and it's going to cost you.

00:09:39.700 And likewise, in Alberta, we have the UCP, but Paul Himman, of course, is a very credible person

00:09:44.800 with the Wilder's Independence Party out there.

00:09:46.560 He'll welcome, you know, frustrated UCP members if they should come about,

00:09:50.940 as with some of those newer parties on the scene.

00:09:53.440 So, you know, they're not forced together for a lack of alternatives.

00:09:57.660 Especially at the provincial level, as you're saying.

00:09:59.960 I mean, I've lost count of how many parties there are that are vying for provincial votes.

00:10:06.160 That's why I say that I think as someone that really worries for my grandchildren

00:10:11.100 about the potential for a Rachel Notley socialist return to Alberta.

00:10:16.860 I mean, that's why I came out of retirement to start Maverick a couple of years ago.

00:10:21.100 That's why now I'm in, I'm actually supportive of a sort of a non-traditional conservative

00:10:27.420 candidate for the UCP race once it kicks off.

00:10:31.940 And I'm doing everything I can to encourage Tarek El Nega,

00:10:35.260 who was one of our leadership candidates for the Maverick Party.

00:10:39.100 And he certainly won a lot of hearts and minds.

00:10:41.840 Because what we need, I believe, Corey, is someone that can unite

00:10:46.500 the non-socialist Albertan vote behind the UCP.

00:10:53.020 I mean, whoever wins that is by extension going to be the premier.

00:10:57.720 At least for a short period of time until the next election campaign.

00:11:00.880 And so what we need is someone that projects beyond conservatives,

00:11:04.960 social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, red Tories, progressives, whatever.

00:11:09.980 Elusive Big Ten.

00:11:10.780 Exactly.

00:11:11.780 And because a lot of folks out there that vote do not vote along party lines.

00:11:16.680 They're looking for someone new, someone that can bridge the gap between rural and urban,

00:11:21.520 someone that can expand the UCP appeal way beyond the conservative base to include libertarians

00:11:29.480 and others that might be attracted to a new face, a fresh face with some fresh ideas for Alberta.

00:11:36.480 Well, that's what I'm seeing.

00:11:37.560 Like I see Sarah Lynn Quist, you know, some of the names we're seeing already,

00:11:40.740 say Peter Guthrie, Todd Lowen, or Danielle Smith are the best bets.

00:11:43.560 And there's a number of other names coming up.

00:11:45.120 So far, it's just been Danielle Smith and Brian Jean who have formally declared.

00:11:50.820 We're looking at perhaps some cabinet members coming out.

00:11:53.480 As you said, we're always saying we want a fresh face.

00:11:56.460 But boy, it's tough if you don't have the network and the party mechanisms and the connections.

00:12:00.900 And the money.

00:12:01.220 And the money, of course, to crawl through that.

00:12:04.560 But I mean, I also see that same appetite with what we're seeing right now is retreads.

00:12:08.340 And I don't like to knock.

00:12:09.560 I love Danielle.

00:12:10.460 I think she's fantastic.

00:12:11.400 But I'm not sure if she's going to be able to win that.

00:12:14.160 And, you know, Jean's been and gone.

00:12:16.140 And I said, how would say somebody like Tarek or another like that?

00:12:20.200 Right.

00:12:20.780 How do you break through that wall and climb the ranks?

00:12:23.880 You know, people want that.

00:12:24.780 But at the same time, it's very difficult to win.

00:12:26.660 It is, although I do believe in I'm by far not a digital guru by any stretch, Corey.

00:12:34.640 I don't know how proficient you are with social media, but I'm told.

00:12:38.000 And I think some heart from the Freedom Convoy.

00:12:41.700 They raised $10 million twice.

00:12:44.680 And they reached tens of thousands of people with a very simple message.

00:12:49.360 And they stayed on message.

00:12:50.780 My good friend Tamara Leach.

00:12:52.280 You know, so I think there is hopes in today's day and age that wasn't there when you and

00:12:58.200 I were building parties.

00:12:59.560 Well, that's part of it, too.

00:13:00.580 Absolutely.

00:13:01.160 Like way back with reform, for example.

00:13:03.800 I mean, you had to work the ground.

00:13:05.260 You had to literally phone people and nag them. 0.59

00:13:07.500 If you caught them at home, they didn't have a cell with them all the time.

00:13:09.880 So you had to bug them during dinner.

00:13:10.880 It wasn't invented yet.

00:13:11.960 At least not for affordably.

00:13:14.620 And you were, you know, you'd have to do or knock.

00:13:17.640 You'd have to do mail outs.

00:13:18.860 They were expensive.

00:13:19.740 They were time consuming.

00:13:20.460 And I remember volunteer nights, you know, sitting there burning the cigarettes and drinking

00:13:23.460 the beer and stuffing envelopes all night.

00:13:26.280 There's a lot more opportunity now, though.

00:13:27.960 As you said, a person, if they can, with social media on a relatively low budget, if they can

00:13:33.160 gain that grassroots steam and get things rolling, as you said, like the convoy, you know,

00:13:37.340 Tamara's no master organizer by any means. 1.00

00:13:39.900 She just wanted to start a fundraiser for a cause she thought was important.

00:13:43.160 And it went viral.

00:13:44.260 And that can happen with a leadership candidate.

00:13:46.060 But maybe that's part of why the establishment's kind of pushing those alternative candidates

00:13:50.200 to the wayside.

00:13:50.960 Yeah, that could be.

00:13:52.580 I mean, nobody really knows because the Conservative Party of Canada hasn't really explained to

00:13:58.400 Canadians and Conservative members why they excluded these gentlemen.

00:14:03.120 And to their credit, they didn't want to tear the party apart.

00:14:06.320 So, you know, they didn't launch a legal appeal or whatever.

00:14:09.280 There was talk of that at one point in time.

00:14:11.080 So, as I say, hopefully the provincial UCP, which, of course, we need to, you know, clearly

00:14:17.000 state that they're not directly affiliated, nor is Maverick affiliated with any other party.

00:14:22.760 The reason why I'm pushing Tarek is because I think we need that new blood.

00:14:26.680 We need a vision for all of Alberta, not just for Conservatives.

00:14:31.980 And yeah, that's a terrific base to work from.

00:14:34.520 But my fear is, is that if the party, after whatever date they set for electing the new

00:14:42.140 leader, if the party remains as fractured as it is today, both in the caucus, in the

00:14:47.280 party mechanics behind the scene, the governance of the party, and more broadly with the membership,

00:14:53.880 if it remains as fractured and some people, as you suggest, Corey, all of a sudden say,

00:14:58.120 well, I don't like the new leader.

00:14:59.900 I think they run one by hook or crook or whatever.

00:15:03.160 And so they're going to take their ball and go to a different party, or they're going

00:15:07.640 to start a new party, or they're going to splinter and, you know, a big part of the old

00:15:12.100 Wild Rose will join the new Wild Rose Independence.

00:15:15.380 Like, we don't know.

00:15:16.540 We got to keep everybody inside the tent to take on Rachel Notley. 1.00

00:15:20.380 Well, that's it.

00:15:20.920 We keep repeating history.

00:15:22.260 I mean, you were in the caucus back with the whole Conservative Reform Alliance Party split

00:15:26.900 and the things going on federally and a lot of, and that soured a lot of electors.

00:15:31.180 You know, for those of us, okay, if we're tiled in and we kind of see what's going on,

00:15:34.780 we understand why people are upset, we see what happened.

00:15:37.480 We're playing the political games within the parties.

00:15:39.520 But you've got to remember, the vast majority of the voters are not members of political

00:15:42.420 parties.

00:15:42.700 Exactly.

00:15:43.180 And all they see is what they see ugly play.

00:15:46.620 And they reject that.

00:15:48.180 So hopefully we can start learning from someone.

00:15:50.000 And the key there, and I've said this already on the program, is that with the Conservative

00:15:56.060 Party of Canada, I suspect with the unbridled love between Jagmeet Singh and Justin Trudeau,

00:16:03.440 it appears as though Parliament's going to continue to stumble along for a while yet.

00:16:07.260 So they may have time to try to heal those wounds that they're inflicting on each other and on

00:16:13.620 themselves during the race.

00:16:16.200 My fear for the UCP is that if it unfolds the same way, where the frontrunners are sniping at

00:16:23.040 each other all the time, as you say, then there isn't adequate time because we're looking at an

00:16:29.840 election a year from now.

00:16:31.020 Oh, yeah.

00:16:31.240 I mean, whoever wins is going to have two battles to do.

00:16:33.960 I mean, they're going to have to unify the party end within there, and then they've got

00:16:36.980 six months to convince Albertans, we're what you need, we're the best option for you.

00:16:43.020 That's going to go fast.

00:16:44.100 I mean, I'll give them a better part of one legislative session, get some policy out, I

00:16:48.680 guess, depending on who it is and what they were going at.

00:16:50.580 Yeah, and it's over the Christmas break and the calendar year end, and you've got all these

00:16:55.200 other challenges where people's attention is distracted from politics, rightly so, family, 0.95

00:17:01.000 things like that.

00:17:01.640 And so that's a pretty short period of time for people like you and I that have been involved

00:17:07.280 in politics, or whoever that new leader is, to do that outreach and to set in place a

00:17:15.700 platform that is going to appeal to a broad range of Albertans and really detract from

00:17:24.800 the popularity, or at least what appears to be the popularity of Rachel Notley right now.

00:17:29.160 Well, then they'll have to keep their flank covered. I mean, part of why I think Kenny

00:17:31.920 couldn't campaign effectively on the provincial front was because he was constantly fighting

00:17:34.800 with his own party underneath. And so it'll have to be somebody who can manage it.

00:17:38.640 And that brings up the whole other issue when people are trying to decide whether it's at

00:17:42.220 the federal or at the provincial level, Corey, the issue of leadership, and I've often remarked

00:17:48.020 that those of us that are getting long in the tooth and a lot of gray hair, we understand

00:17:52.980 because we've been through it many, many times, and it's no different in the private sector

00:17:57.620 with a CEO or a chairman of the board or your local supervisor or superintendent or foreman

00:18:04.200 on the job, as it is in politics. You never really know what kind of a leader someone is

00:18:10.360 going to make until they are the leader.

00:18:11.740 Well, that's it. And there's no real good guidebook for that thing. Like I've always

00:18:15.640 felt it's inherent. Some people have it in them. It's natural. I mean, look for Ralph

00:18:21.720 Klein, for an example. He could pull it together. He really engaged Albertans. He managed to

00:18:26.200 keep his party together. I mean, he has challenges, but he didn't have some sort of formal leadership

00:18:31.120 training or something. He had it within him. I mean, Jason Kenney has been an exceedingly

00:18:35.420 effective politician for years and a fantastic cabinet minister, a great opposition member.

00:18:40.020 But when it came to leading, there's just that whole separate skill set that some have

00:18:44.760 and some don't. He just didn't seem to quite have it.

00:18:47.000 Well, you know, and so many know, because you've taken the time to assess the strengths

00:18:52.860 and weaknesses of leaders, as they say, whether it's private sector or whether it's in politics.

00:18:58.200 And there's so many different necessary facets of leadership. And Jason Kenney might have been

00:19:04.240 great at, by and large, with communicating with the general public, you know,

00:19:09.360 constituents. But was a failure in how he did or didn't keep his caucus united, keep his team

00:19:19.620 together, keep the governing, the members of the governing council or board behind the scenes,

00:19:26.420 because you've got all those different entities, whether it's the internal mechanics of the party,

00:19:32.520 and you've got to be good at all of them. You've got to be good at those personal relationships and

00:19:37.800 building that loyalty. And that really, in the end, separate, I think, out of, to a large extent,

00:19:44.580 a good leader from a poor one, is whether you can bring your team along with you and build that team

00:19:50.640 spirit that they feel part of something that's greater than themselves.

00:19:54.120 And then we hope, well, we'll see what comes out of this race. Races are opportunities. I mean, 1.00

00:19:58.240 they're really a do or die for parties. So on the federal front, I mean, something I worry a little

00:20:02.300 about, as we, as you said, they've got that coalition between Trudeau and Jagmeet, it might

00:20:06.680 as well be a majority, in fact, a farther left majority than we used to have. And well, right now,

00:20:13.240 I mean, they're pushing policy, they want to push it before, I mean, while the conservatives are in

00:20:17.480 turmoil, it's a great time to get some heavy policies shoved through there, because they don't have an

00:20:21.160 effective opposition, they're busy fighting with themselves. We're seeing the firearms legislation

00:20:25.800 coming through today, probably some major changes in that we're seeing a lot of other C18, C11,

00:20:32.520 those scary ones talking about controlling information, controlling media. I got a feeling

00:20:37.000 on the federal front, that party is going to get away with a whole lot before the conservatives even

00:20:40.020 get their game behind them. Well, we'll have to see. I mean, my hope, having been a long time

00:20:44.740 caucus whip and then house leader responsible for a legislative agenda, or resisting

00:20:50.800 a legislative agenda, which is what you're talking about, Corey, is that there's sufficient

00:20:56.380 skilled veteran MPs that are still in that caucus working that will hold this government to account,

00:21:04.780 but will, you know, remains to be seen. I mean, there are tools there, and certainly I'm familiar

00:21:10.160 with them, that they can use parliamentary tools to hold the government in check. We'll see whether

00:21:17.140 they use those, you know, when bills come along that are so clearly in opposition to a large section

00:21:25.700 of Canadian citizenry, like gun legislation. Let's have a look and see what it looks like.

00:21:31.760 What scares me as a legal firearms owner all my life, ever since I was a teenager, which was a few

00:21:39.100 years ago, is that, you know, once again, we have a liberal party supported by a socialist party that

00:21:47.440 intends to ram through, or certainly leaving the impression they intend to ram through more

00:21:52.220 restrictions on legal firearms owners, when they have never provided the evidence that those are the

00:21:58.440 firearms that are the problem. And I don't believe for a minute they are. We, when I was in parliament,

00:22:04.220 we asked continuously for liberal governments of Jean Chrétien and then Paul Martin to provide

00:22:10.580 evidence of the guns that were used in crimes. How many of those were actually legal guns? And

00:22:17.460 how were they stolen? And were they stolen from owners, responsible firearms owners that had them,

00:22:23.440 you know, in a gun cabinet? Or, you know, exactly how did that gun get in the hands of a criminal?

00:22:30.140 Well, well, let's get stats. I mean, if it turns out that 90% of bank robberies were being committed

00:22:34.420 by duck hunting guns, well, then maybe we should crack down on duck hunting. But there's no evidence

00:22:38.220 of any of that. Exactly. And of course, many of us are pretty confident that that's not the case,

00:22:44.540 that the majority of guns that are used in crime are smuggled in from the United States,

00:22:50.160 where they are so numerous. Yeah, well, and these liberals, I can see kind of a danger and an

00:22:55.180 opportunity, I think. Like, this is a liberal party like we haven't seen in a long time. Like,

00:22:58.620 in, you know, the 90s, the liberals, there were still some blue liberals in there. There were

00:23:02.520 some common sense MPs in there. We gag a little to admit it, but guys like Dan McTeague, or even

00:23:07.220 David Kilgore recently passed away. But he was actually a great advocate for Alberta as a liberal

00:23:12.580 party member. But those moderate and pragmatic liberals, you don't see them anymore. This is a

00:23:18.940 hard left party. But I see that as a danger in putting legislation through. But it also could be a

00:23:23.340 force to unite then a common sense conservative movement to unseat these guys.

00:23:29.060 Opposition, yeah. One of the best examples I've used, Corey, in the past on that front is someone

00:23:36.220 that became a good friend of mine that was from outside of politics. And that's David Emerson. He had

00:23:43.060 built an incredible career in the private sector as a leader. And he really, I don't believe,

00:23:49.980 really intended to enter politics. He got a phone call one day when he was in Vancouver in his office

00:23:55.580 from the Prime Minister at the time, Paul Martin, and said, the country needs you. We need someone

00:24:01.580 like you from outside of politics that only would only do it, would only get involved in politics

00:24:08.200 because of a desire to serve. So all the right reasons. And so David stepped forward. And as you'll

00:24:14.680 recall, there was a huge controversy after Stephen Harper and myself and others orchestrated the

00:24:21.160 defeat of the Liberal government under Paul Martin. And then Stephen made the offer for David Emerson

00:24:27.400 to cross the floor. And actually, I think it's the only time in Canadian history that's happened

00:24:32.160 where a sitting cabinet minister, not just a member of parliament, crossed from a defeated government

00:24:38.200 government to the new government and went right into cabinet. What a great thing it turned out to be,

00:24:44.600 though. I mean, I was there in that first parliament as Prime Minister Harper's whip. I worked closely with

00:24:51.320 all the cabinet. And I can tell you what an advantage it was for us to have someone of the stature and the

00:24:58.920 skills and experience, private sector experience of David Emerson. And, you know, so it's the right decision,

00:25:06.120 a nonpartisan decision to welcome someone like that into the cabinet. And that's why I'm suggesting

00:25:11.720 someone like Tarek El Nega. I don't know whether Tarek is the be all and end all and will be a great

00:25:16.600 leader or not. But we need someone like that, that has the reach beyond the Conservative Party in a

00:25:23.080 nonpartisan way to attract Albertans.

00:25:26.680 I wonder some of that tough irony to have partisan unity at the same time as somebody who can go beyond

00:25:32.120 those lines. I mean, is it a pragmatic floor crossing or is it an opportunistic floor crossing?

00:25:37.480 Exactly.

00:25:37.960 There's two different kinds altogether. Yeah.

00:25:39.640 Well, lots to watch and lots to cover. Boy, that went fast.

00:25:43.320 Well, thank you so much as always for having me on the show. I'd love to come back and we can talk

00:25:47.240 more. Yeah, because I think there's more to cover. We got a lot unfolding. I really appreciate that

00:25:51.560 voice of experience from in there. Because as I said, we keep running in circles on the hamster wheel

00:25:56.680 here. And, you know, one of the ways to try and avoid repeating the same mistakes over and over

00:26:01.560 again is to speak with some other folks who've already made some of them so we can get on to

00:26:06.200 some brand new fresh mistakes instead. Well, I know I've made my share of mistakes.

00:26:10.120 Oh, yeah. And the successes too. Hey, you know, point out what worked. So,

00:26:14.520 great. Well, thanks for coming in, Jay. And I'm certain we'll be talking again soon.

00:26:18.280 Thanks, Corey. All right. I enjoyed it.

Western Standard - May 31, 2022

EXCLUSIVE： Former MP, Jay Hill on federal issues.

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