EXCLUSIVE： Former MP, Jay Hill on federal issues.
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Summary
The United Conservative Party of Alberta has a new leader, Colin Krieger, who is a former MP and former whip of the Maverick Party of Canada. In this episode, we talk with him about his political life, his political career, and what he looks forward to in the upcoming leadership race.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
You've had a long history. You're a member of parliament for I believe 17 years. You went through a number of party incarnations. You were the party whip as well in there. Then you were the interim leader of the Maverick Party, but now you're kind of a statesman, I think is the best term I could put for it.
00:00:14.480
Well, I guess some people are calling me the founder. I guess that's better than flounder. Myself and a small group, as you know, got Maverick Party started about two years ago. We morphed, if I can call it that, out of the old Wexit Canada Party. We completely changed the philosophy and the mission statement and the principles and the policies and pretty much everything else.
00:00:41.900
And when we formed the Maverick Party about 20, 20 months ago, something like that, less than two years ago. So it's been quite a journey and I've enjoyed it. But now we've handed it over to our new elected leader that the members elected on the 14th, Colin Krieger. And thank you for coming to our event.
00:01:00.160
Well, no problem. No, I was there to cover it. And I've had Colin on the show to talk with him. It'll be interesting to see how that party develops. And I want to talk a bit about that. I mean, you were involved in, you know, grassroots party development way back.
00:01:11.900
Back from the reform days, I was a young, long haired guy knocking on doors for Art Hanger way back then. But it's a lot of work and it's difficult and it's hard to gain traction.
00:01:23.220
Right now, like in provincially, I've mentioned that before, too, because now provincially, we're into a leadership race here. We've got two leadership races going on.
00:01:29.840
Those really suck the oxygen out of any alternative movements. You know, that's the potential period of renewal for either of those parties. People think they could be reformed, think they could be fixed.
00:01:38.780
And sometimes it does fix the party. Sometimes it doesn't. But boy, it really drains the market dry, I guess, for those alternative movements.
00:01:47.100
Yeah, it certainly, you know, sucks the oxygen out of the room, as they as they like to say.
00:01:51.940
Yeah, we've got the CPC, the Canadian Conservative Party of Canada running theirs. Of course, that's been underway for a bit of time now.
00:02:04.040
Personally, I was, you know, very dismayed, I guess, by the fact that they disqualified a number of candidates.
00:02:11.700
I thought it would be have been a better open race with more alternatives for Conservative members.
00:02:17.440
Hopefully that doesn't happen with the UCP race, which is not yet underway.
00:02:21.900
But my understanding is this week they're striking a committee to decide on the rules to replace Mr. Kenny, Premier Kenny.
00:02:30.300
So we'll have to see how that goes. I mean, from my point of view, and it'd be interesting discussion,
00:02:35.680
because you used the word renewal. And I think that both the Conservative Party of Canada and the United Conservative Party of Alberta
00:02:45.000
have quite a task ahead of them in trying to not only win the support and unify their own parties
00:02:51.920
and the membership of those parties, which are incredibly fractured at both levels,
00:02:56.520
but also to attract and unify, in the case of the UCP, Albertans.
00:03:01.560
And my personal belief, Corey, for that to happen is going to take someone outside, not a recycled politician,
00:03:09.420
not somebody from within the current cabinet or the current Conservative structure,
00:03:14.060
but it's going to take somebody from what I used to call the real world,
00:03:17.500
somebody outside of mainstream United Conservatives,
00:03:21.100
because we have to look beyond winning the United Conservative leadership race.
00:03:25.140
I think we have to look towards winning that overused phrase, the hearts and minds of Albertans.
00:03:32.760
Everybody that's a non-socialist should be looking at preventing the return of Rachel Notley.
00:03:39.160
Well, that's the worst thing that we can see happening from an economic and a number of standpoints.
00:03:43.400
I think David Price, I don't know if you know him, but he's going to be chairing that committee.
00:03:47.940
He's a young fellow. He was involved quite a bit in the Wild Rose in the past,
00:03:50.360
and a very good principled young man. So it's a good sign, you know,
00:03:53.800
because he really sticks to the rules on things that they will come up,
00:03:57.140
because they had so many questions at the last leadership race.
00:04:00.580
The mistrust starts even before you get out of the gates,
00:04:02.580
if you have just even questions, whether fair or not, coming out of your process.
00:04:06.140
So hopefully, you know, David and the others will really make sure they've got a bulletproof process.
00:04:10.460
As you said, make sure they let in a broad selection of candidates.
00:04:12.860
It doesn't look like an inside game, because if it looks gamed or rigged,
00:04:17.040
members and voters alike are just going to say,
00:04:19.380
ah, you guys, it's more of the same crap, and they'll reject it.
00:04:22.040
Well, and you certainly drew attention to that as the party went through all the
00:04:25.880
machinations towards voting, or the reveal of the vote,
00:04:30.320
the mail-in vote for Jason Kenney's support or lack of.
00:04:34.160
And you in particular and Western Standard were at the forefront of drawing attention
00:04:38.960
to all the potential problems that resonated from that.
00:04:42.060
And the fact that if it wasn't done properly, with a proper, believable result,
00:04:48.000
then you've only reinforced the distrust of Albertans,
00:04:52.800
and in particular, United Conservative members.
00:04:56.560
And I think some of that was lost with Premier Kenney.
00:04:59.300
And personally, I still think they were in a no-win situation.
00:05:04.480
He'd said 50% plus one, but I'm sure in his mind, he had a different number.
00:05:09.080
Clearly, that wasn't enough to feel comfortable with a mandate.
00:05:12.100
But as others had said, well, what if he came in with 75%?
00:05:18.220
You know, the party was unfortunately irrevocably ruptured.
00:05:22.940
So they've got to do this exercise and keep trust this time.
00:05:26.440
Well, and I think that most of us that have been part of politics,
00:05:30.140
Corey, for many, many years, more years than you and I probably care to admit,
00:05:35.780
recognize that probably what should have happened is Jason should have resigned prior to that.
00:05:42.400
Because as you say, it was a no-win situation for him anyway, because the trust had been broken.
00:05:47.540
For whatever reason, multiple reasons, it had been broken.
00:05:50.740
And so you can't win because, as you say, if you had a higher number,
00:05:54.920
higher than Joe Clark's two-thirds or whatever it was in the day that he decided wasn't sufficient.
00:06:00.760
So if he would have had a higher number, it wouldn't have been believable.
00:06:03.780
And if he came in lower than that, then he was forced to resign anyway.
00:06:07.780
So he probably should have just resigned and started the process two or three months ago.
00:06:13.040
The party would have had more time before the next election to get a new leader in place
00:06:17.420
and start to build momentum and hopefully unity amongst non-socialist Albertans.
00:06:25.120
And so, I mean, I'll pivot a bit to the federal front.
00:06:29.700
And as you said, I mean, one of the things we never really did find exactly,
00:06:32.500
a couple of those candidates apparently came up with the signatures, came up with the deposits,
00:06:36.340
but the committee just still said, no, we'd rather you weren't taking part in the race.
00:06:42.040
And right off the bat, again, that just makes it sound like an inside game.
00:06:45.440
And that really, particularly, I think, with conservatives, frustrates them pretty fast.
00:06:50.500
I mean, it leaves a bad taste in all our mouths when you see, you know, who?
00:06:55.480
I mean, a small little group that forms the committee to run the leadership race of a party.
00:07:02.520
And if they're the ones making the decision of who gets to run and who doesn't,
00:07:06.560
who gets to take their message, their vision to the membership and who doesn't,
00:07:10.800
it doesn't sit well with your rank and file membership.
00:07:13.760
That's going to hurt membership growth, hurt retention of members as they move towards the September voting day.
00:07:20.860
I think, you know, there's going to be members, memberships, obviously, that will expire between now and September.
00:07:26.920
And when you start to sow those seeds of distrust, it's incredibly hard to build it back.
00:07:32.260
And people will keep bringing it up over and over.
00:07:34.600
And I mean, the other thing is, I'm worried about this.
00:07:36.480
It's such a long campaign period they got going.
00:07:41.680
You know, this, you end up with a solid winner, but you have a lot of people marching out of the room
00:07:46.320
when you've had such a hostile and personal sort of campaign, and they've still got months to go.
00:07:52.120
I'm really worried about what's going to be left of that party, no matter who wins it at the end of this.
00:07:58.240
And as we head into the UCP leadership race to get back to the provincial side of things, Corey,
00:08:03.300
I hope that they learn a bit of a lesson from the federal party and say, like, we don't want to behave like that.
00:08:11.160
Because as I said, the challenge and the timelines are much, much shorter.
00:08:14.960
And people need to understand that the timeline to get a leader in place for the UCP
00:08:20.800
and hopefully coalesce that non-socialist Albertan vote behind whoever he or she is, is very short.
00:08:29.420
As you know, the election is scheduled for about a year from now.
00:08:32.260
By the time we get the new leader in place and, you know, promote that person, promote that person's vision,
00:08:40.320
hopefully to reunite non-socialist Albertans, it's going to be a very short timeline.
00:08:46.880
Hopefully, unlike what the federal conservative leader will face after September,
00:08:52.640
there will hopefully be more time for them to get established and get their profile known
00:08:56.760
and get, hopefully, convinced Canadians to support them.
00:09:00.480
So it's interesting, the juxtaposition between the two races.
00:09:08.560
Certainly, this vitriolic adversity that we're seeing between the supposed frontrunners at the federal level
00:09:16.740
hopefully will not be transmitted to the provincial race once it kicks off.
00:09:22.160
Well, yeah, provincially and federally, I see somebody else, you know, mentioned the PPC
00:09:27.760
Like, I can't forget, there are others waiting the wing.
00:09:31.080
So if you've got 20% of your membership disgruntled or more after such a personal race,
00:09:36.660
they will go somewhere else and it's going to cost you.
00:09:39.700
And likewise, in Alberta, we have the UCP, but Paul Himman, of course, is a very credible person
00:09:44.800
with the Wilder's Independence Party out there.
00:09:46.560
He'll welcome, you know, frustrated UCP members if they should come about,
00:09:50.940
as with some of those newer parties on the scene.
00:09:53.440
So, you know, they're not forced together for a lack of alternatives.
00:09:57.660
Especially at the provincial level, as you're saying.
00:09:59.960
I mean, I've lost count of how many parties there are that are vying for provincial votes.
00:10:06.160
That's why I say that I think as someone that really worries for my grandchildren
00:10:11.100
about the potential for a Rachel Notley socialist return to Alberta.
00:10:16.860
I mean, that's why I came out of retirement to start Maverick a couple of years ago.
00:10:21.100
That's why now I'm in, I'm actually supportive of a sort of a non-traditional conservative
00:10:31.940
And I'm doing everything I can to encourage Tarek El Nega,
00:10:35.260
who was one of our leadership candidates for the Maverick Party.
00:10:39.100
And he certainly won a lot of hearts and minds.
00:10:41.840
Because what we need, I believe, Corey, is someone that can unite
00:10:46.500
the non-socialist Albertan vote behind the UCP.
00:10:53.020
I mean, whoever wins that is by extension going to be the premier.
00:10:57.720
At least for a short period of time until the next election campaign.
00:11:00.880
And so what we need is someone that projects beyond conservatives,
00:11:04.960
social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, red Tories, progressives, whatever.
00:11:11.780
And because a lot of folks out there that vote do not vote along party lines.
00:11:16.680
They're looking for someone new, someone that can bridge the gap between rural and urban,
00:11:21.520
someone that can expand the UCP appeal way beyond the conservative base to include libertarians
00:11:29.480
and others that might be attracted to a new face, a fresh face with some fresh ideas for Alberta.
00:11:37.560
Like I see Sarah Lynn Quist, you know, some of the names we're seeing already,
00:11:40.740
say Peter Guthrie, Todd Lowen, or Danielle Smith are the best bets.
00:11:45.120
So far, it's just been Danielle Smith and Brian Jean who have formally declared.
00:11:50.820
We're looking at perhaps some cabinet members coming out.
00:11:53.480
As you said, we're always saying we want a fresh face.
00:11:56.460
But boy, it's tough if you don't have the network and the party mechanisms and the connections.
00:12:01.220
And the money, of course, to crawl through that.
00:12:04.560
But I mean, I also see that same appetite with what we're seeing right now is retreads.
00:12:11.400
But I'm not sure if she's going to be able to win that.
00:12:16.140
And I said, how would say somebody like Tarek or another like that?
00:12:20.780
How do you break through that wall and climb the ranks?
00:12:24.780
But at the same time, it's very difficult to win.
00:12:26.660
It is, although I do believe in I'm by far not a digital guru by any stretch, Corey.
00:12:34.640
I don't know how proficient you are with social media, but I'm told.
00:12:38.000
And I think some heart from the Freedom Convoy.
00:12:44.680
And they reached tens of thousands of people with a very simple message.
00:12:52.280
You know, so I think there is hopes in today's day and age that wasn't there when you and
00:13:05.260
You had to literally phone people and nag them.
00:13:07.500
If you caught them at home, they didn't have a cell with them all the time.
00:13:14.620
And you were, you know, you'd have to do or knock.
00:13:20.460
And I remember volunteer nights, you know, sitting there burning the cigarettes and drinking
00:13:27.960
As you said, a person, if they can, with social media on a relatively low budget, if they can
00:13:33.160
gain that grassroots steam and get things rolling, as you said, like the convoy, you know,
00:13:39.900
She just wanted to start a fundraiser for a cause she thought was important.
00:13:44.260
And that can happen with a leadership candidate.
00:13:46.060
But maybe that's part of why the establishment's kind of pushing those alternative candidates
00:13:52.580
I mean, nobody really knows because the Conservative Party of Canada hasn't really explained to
00:13:58.400
Canadians and Conservative members why they excluded these gentlemen.
00:14:03.120
And to their credit, they didn't want to tear the party apart.
00:14:06.320
So, you know, they didn't launch a legal appeal or whatever.
00:14:11.080
So, as I say, hopefully the provincial UCP, which, of course, we need to, you know, clearly
00:14:17.000
state that they're not directly affiliated, nor is Maverick affiliated with any other party.
00:14:22.760
The reason why I'm pushing Tarek is because I think we need that new blood.
00:14:26.680
We need a vision for all of Alberta, not just for Conservatives.
00:14:34.520
But my fear is, is that if the party, after whatever date they set for electing the new
00:14:42.140
leader, if the party remains as fractured as it is today, both in the caucus, in the
00:14:47.280
party mechanics behind the scene, the governance of the party, and more broadly with the membership,
00:14:53.880
if it remains as fractured and some people, as you suggest, Corey, all of a sudden say,
00:14:59.900
I think they run one by hook or crook or whatever.
00:15:03.160
And so they're going to take their ball and go to a different party, or they're going
00:15:07.640
to start a new party, or they're going to splinter and, you know, a big part of the old
00:15:12.100
Wild Rose will join the new Wild Rose Independence.
00:15:16.540
We got to keep everybody inside the tent to take on Rachel Notley.
00:15:22.260
I mean, you were in the caucus back with the whole Conservative Reform Alliance Party split
00:15:26.900
and the things going on federally and a lot of, and that soured a lot of electors.
00:15:31.180
You know, for those of us, okay, if we're tiled in and we kind of see what's going on,
00:15:34.780
we understand why people are upset, we see what happened.
00:15:37.480
We're playing the political games within the parties.
00:15:39.520
But you've got to remember, the vast majority of the voters are not members of political
00:15:48.180
So hopefully we can start learning from someone.
00:15:50.000
And the key there, and I've said this already on the program, is that with the Conservative
00:15:56.060
Party of Canada, I suspect with the unbridled love between Jagmeet Singh and Justin Trudeau,
00:16:03.440
it appears as though Parliament's going to continue to stumble along for a while yet.
00:16:07.260
So they may have time to try to heal those wounds that they're inflicting on each other and on
00:16:16.200
My fear for the UCP is that if it unfolds the same way, where the frontrunners are sniping at
00:16:23.040
each other all the time, as you say, then there isn't adequate time because we're looking at an
00:16:31.240
I mean, whoever wins is going to have two battles to do.
00:16:33.960
I mean, they're going to have to unify the party end within there, and then they've got
00:16:36.980
six months to convince Albertans, we're what you need, we're the best option for you.
00:16:44.100
I mean, I'll give them a better part of one legislative session, get some policy out, I
00:16:48.680
guess, depending on who it is and what they were going at.
00:16:50.580
Yeah, and it's over the Christmas break and the calendar year end, and you've got all these
00:16:55.200
other challenges where people's attention is distracted from politics, rightly so, family,
00:17:01.640
And so that's a pretty short period of time for people like you and I that have been involved
00:17:07.280
in politics, or whoever that new leader is, to do that outreach and to set in place a
00:17:15.700
platform that is going to appeal to a broad range of Albertans and really detract from
00:17:24.800
the popularity, or at least what appears to be the popularity of Rachel Notley right now.
00:17:29.160
Well, then they'll have to keep their flank covered. I mean, part of why I think Kenny
00:17:31.920
couldn't campaign effectively on the provincial front was because he was constantly fighting
00:17:34.800
with his own party underneath. And so it'll have to be somebody who can manage it.
00:17:38.640
And that brings up the whole other issue when people are trying to decide whether it's at
00:17:42.220
the federal or at the provincial level, Corey, the issue of leadership, and I've often remarked
00:17:48.020
that those of us that are getting long in the tooth and a lot of gray hair, we understand
00:17:52.980
because we've been through it many, many times, and it's no different in the private sector
00:17:57.620
with a CEO or a chairman of the board or your local supervisor or superintendent or foreman
00:18:04.200
on the job, as it is in politics. You never really know what kind of a leader someone is
00:18:11.740
Well, that's it. And there's no real good guidebook for that thing. Like I've always
00:18:15.640
felt it's inherent. Some people have it in them. It's natural. I mean, look for Ralph
00:18:21.720
Klein, for an example. He could pull it together. He really engaged Albertans. He managed to
00:18:26.200
keep his party together. I mean, he has challenges, but he didn't have some sort of formal leadership
00:18:31.120
training or something. He had it within him. I mean, Jason Kenney has been an exceedingly
00:18:35.420
effective politician for years and a fantastic cabinet minister, a great opposition member.
00:18:40.020
But when it came to leading, there's just that whole separate skill set that some have
00:18:44.760
and some don't. He just didn't seem to quite have it.
00:18:47.000
Well, you know, and so many know, because you've taken the time to assess the strengths
00:18:52.860
and weaknesses of leaders, as they say, whether it's private sector or whether it's in politics.
00:18:58.200
And there's so many different necessary facets of leadership. And Jason Kenney might have been
00:19:04.240
great at, by and large, with communicating with the general public, you know,
00:19:09.360
constituents. But was a failure in how he did or didn't keep his caucus united, keep his team
00:19:19.620
together, keep the governing, the members of the governing council or board behind the scenes,
00:19:26.420
because you've got all those different entities, whether it's the internal mechanics of the party,
00:19:32.520
and you've got to be good at all of them. You've got to be good at those personal relationships and
00:19:37.800
building that loyalty. And that really, in the end, separate, I think, out of, to a large extent,
00:19:44.580
a good leader from a poor one, is whether you can bring your team along with you and build that team
00:19:50.640
spirit that they feel part of something that's greater than themselves.
00:19:54.120
And then we hope, well, we'll see what comes out of this race. Races are opportunities. I mean,
00:19:58.240
they're really a do or die for parties. So on the federal front, I mean, something I worry a little
00:20:02.300
about, as we, as you said, they've got that coalition between Trudeau and Jagmeet, it might
00:20:06.680
as well be a majority, in fact, a farther left majority than we used to have. And well, right now,
00:20:13.240
I mean, they're pushing policy, they want to push it before, I mean, while the conservatives are in
00:20:17.480
turmoil, it's a great time to get some heavy policies shoved through there, because they don't have an
00:20:21.160
effective opposition, they're busy fighting with themselves. We're seeing the firearms legislation
00:20:25.800
coming through today, probably some major changes in that we're seeing a lot of other C18, C11,
00:20:32.520
those scary ones talking about controlling information, controlling media. I got a feeling
00:20:37.000
on the federal front, that party is going to get away with a whole lot before the conservatives even
00:20:40.020
get their game behind them. Well, we'll have to see. I mean, my hope, having been a long time
00:20:44.740
caucus whip and then house leader responsible for a legislative agenda, or resisting
00:20:50.800
a legislative agenda, which is what you're talking about, Corey, is that there's sufficient
00:20:56.380
skilled veteran MPs that are still in that caucus working that will hold this government to account,
00:21:04.780
but will, you know, remains to be seen. I mean, there are tools there, and certainly I'm familiar
00:21:10.160
with them, that they can use parliamentary tools to hold the government in check. We'll see whether
00:21:17.140
they use those, you know, when bills come along that are so clearly in opposition to a large section
00:21:25.700
of Canadian citizenry, like gun legislation. Let's have a look and see what it looks like.
00:21:31.760
What scares me as a legal firearms owner all my life, ever since I was a teenager, which was a few
00:21:39.100
years ago, is that, you know, once again, we have a liberal party supported by a socialist party that
00:21:47.440
intends to ram through, or certainly leaving the impression they intend to ram through more
00:21:52.220
restrictions on legal firearms owners, when they have never provided the evidence that those are the
00:21:58.440
firearms that are the problem. And I don't believe for a minute they are. We, when I was in parliament,
00:22:04.220
we asked continuously for liberal governments of Jean Chrétien and then Paul Martin to provide
00:22:10.580
evidence of the guns that were used in crimes. How many of those were actually legal guns? And
00:22:17.460
how were they stolen? And were they stolen from owners, responsible firearms owners that had them,
00:22:23.440
you know, in a gun cabinet? Or, you know, exactly how did that gun get in the hands of a criminal?
00:22:30.140
Well, well, let's get stats. I mean, if it turns out that 90% of bank robberies were being committed
00:22:34.420
by duck hunting guns, well, then maybe we should crack down on duck hunting. But there's no evidence
00:22:38.220
of any of that. Exactly. And of course, many of us are pretty confident that that's not the case,
00:22:44.540
that the majority of guns that are used in crime are smuggled in from the United States,
00:22:50.160
where they are so numerous. Yeah, well, and these liberals, I can see kind of a danger and an
00:22:55.180
opportunity, I think. Like, this is a liberal party like we haven't seen in a long time. Like,
00:22:58.620
in, you know, the 90s, the liberals, there were still some blue liberals in there. There were
00:23:02.520
some common sense MPs in there. We gag a little to admit it, but guys like Dan McTeague, or even
00:23:07.220
David Kilgore recently passed away. But he was actually a great advocate for Alberta as a liberal
00:23:12.580
party member. But those moderate and pragmatic liberals, you don't see them anymore. This is a
00:23:18.940
hard left party. But I see that as a danger in putting legislation through. But it also could be a
00:23:23.340
force to unite then a common sense conservative movement to unseat these guys.
00:23:29.060
Opposition, yeah. One of the best examples I've used, Corey, in the past on that front is someone
00:23:36.220
that became a good friend of mine that was from outside of politics. And that's David Emerson. He had
00:23:43.060
built an incredible career in the private sector as a leader. And he really, I don't believe,
00:23:49.980
really intended to enter politics. He got a phone call one day when he was in Vancouver in his office
00:23:55.580
from the Prime Minister at the time, Paul Martin, and said, the country needs you. We need someone
00:24:01.580
like you from outside of politics that only would only do it, would only get involved in politics
00:24:08.200
because of a desire to serve. So all the right reasons. And so David stepped forward. And as you'll
00:24:14.680
recall, there was a huge controversy after Stephen Harper and myself and others orchestrated the
00:24:21.160
defeat of the Liberal government under Paul Martin. And then Stephen made the offer for David Emerson
00:24:27.400
to cross the floor. And actually, I think it's the only time in Canadian history that's happened
00:24:32.160
where a sitting cabinet minister, not just a member of parliament, crossed from a defeated government
00:24:38.200
government to the new government and went right into cabinet. What a great thing it turned out to be,
00:24:44.600
though. I mean, I was there in that first parliament as Prime Minister Harper's whip. I worked closely with
00:24:51.320
all the cabinet. And I can tell you what an advantage it was for us to have someone of the stature and the
00:24:58.920
skills and experience, private sector experience of David Emerson. And, you know, so it's the right decision,
00:25:06.120
a nonpartisan decision to welcome someone like that into the cabinet. And that's why I'm suggesting
00:25:11.720
someone like Tarek El Nega. I don't know whether Tarek is the be all and end all and will be a great
00:25:16.600
leader or not. But we need someone like that, that has the reach beyond the Conservative Party in a
00:25:26.680
I wonder some of that tough irony to have partisan unity at the same time as somebody who can go beyond
00:25:32.120
those lines. I mean, is it a pragmatic floor crossing or is it an opportunistic floor crossing?
00:25:39.640
Well, lots to watch and lots to cover. Boy, that went fast.
00:25:43.320
Well, thank you so much as always for having me on the show. I'd love to come back and we can talk
00:25:47.240
more. Yeah, because I think there's more to cover. We got a lot unfolding. I really appreciate that
00:25:51.560
voice of experience from in there. Because as I said, we keep running in circles on the hamster wheel
00:25:56.680
here. And, you know, one of the ways to try and avoid repeating the same mistakes over and over
00:26:01.560
again is to speak with some other folks who've already made some of them so we can get on to
00:26:06.200
some brand new fresh mistakes instead. Well, I know I've made my share of mistakes.
00:26:10.120
Oh, yeah. And the successes too. Hey, you know, point out what worked. So,
00:26:14.520
great. Well, thanks for coming in, Jay. And I'm certain we'll be talking again soon.