EXCLUSIVE： In praise of natural immunity. Sheila Annette Lewis's last best chance.
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Summary
Sheila Annette Lewis has been trying to get an organ transplant for more than two years, but she has yet to receive one. She is joined by her lawyer, Alison Pajovic, who is working on behalf of the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, to argue for her case.
Transcript
00:00:06.360
We are talking today to an Alberto woman, Sheila Annette Lewis,
00:00:12.120
who has a terminal illness that she has been trying to get treated for more than two years.
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And she is joined also by her lawyer, Ms. Alison Pajovic,
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who is working on behalf of the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms.
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Ms. Lewis, if I can take the liberty of explaining your situation for you, for our viewers,
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reducing it to very simplest terms, you have a terminal illness,
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But you can't receive the organ transplant in Alberta
00:00:59.420
because you have not received a vaccine against COVID-19.
00:01:07.540
And the medical establishment is firm on this point.
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And now it may even go to the Supreme Court of Canada.
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I believe that has yet been decided, but that's a possibility.
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But today the news is that you have one more approach to the Alberta Health Service here.
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Now, we're going to talk about all that and, of course,
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what the implications of your new request would be if it were granted.
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I'm now wearing two hoses, as you can see, instead of the normal one.
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So it's much harder to breathe now on a daily basis.
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I'm very limited to what I can do inside my home.
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I have not been out of my home for pretty well a year or more.
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Now, you've had, like, the obvious question here,
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I think most people who perhaps have not been following the case would say,
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well, Ms. Lewis, the answer would seem to be simple.
00:03:06.220
Because if I take the vaccine, it's going to do a lot more harm.
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And I probably would never make it to the table anyway.
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Now, is that a, okay, is that advice that you've received from your medical practitioners?
00:03:20.260
Yes, from medical, from the medical field, from different scientists, doctors.
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I was also told that it's the mRNA spike protein that's inside the vaccine that will travel within two hours after I take,
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For conversational shorthand, let's call it a vaccine, yes.
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Okay, so we'll take, so if I take the vaccine within two hours, it's going to travel into and go to my organs,
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and it's going to release millions and millions and millions of nanoparticles that are going to go into my cells and damage a lot of my cells.
00:04:09.300
Now, you must have explained this to the doctors who you've been consulting with in the Alberta Health Services.
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They said that the vaccines are safe and effective, and I asked them on a scale, I asked them two years ago on a scale of one to ten,
00:04:33.000
And they, he looked at me, he didn't even blink.
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So, when I asked them, when they told me first that I would have to get a vaccine in order to stay on the transplant list,
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on the donor list, I asked them in the office at that time, I was going to visit them in his office,
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and when he said that to me, he looked straight at me, and I asked him how safe the vaccines were,
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and he looked right at me, didn't blink or nothing, he just said 100% safe.
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So, he was that confident that early in the vaccination process, very, that's an interesting comment.
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What I think people might say to you, I think you've already answered it, but I'm going to, I'm going to ask you again.
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Some people would say, look, you can't get the, you can't get the operation because you won't take the vaccine,
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If you take the vaccine and have the operation, you might have some chance of extending your life.
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How do you answer them when they tell you that?
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I think most people don't question the basic default medical point of view,
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that if you, the client, want us, the doctors, to help you, you need to listen to our advice.
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Now, for example, they will say something like, we're not going to give you a liver transplant unless you stop drinking.
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Organs are scarce, and the medical profession would naturally want to give it to the people who they thought would benefit most from receiving them.
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So, in your view, how does Ms. Lewis's case fall outside that reasoning?
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When you're talking about asking someone who is waiting for a liver transplant not to drink,
00:07:04.580
that makes sense, and that's scientifically proven that alcohol damages someone's liver.
00:07:11.480
Similarly, if someone is waiting for a lung transplant and won't stop smoking,
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it makes sense that the doctors would say, well, this person is not a good candidate
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because they're going to keep doing something that's going to damage the new lung.
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Or whatever the organ is that that person is waiting for,
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you have to make sure that you're following directions that are scientifically proven not to harm that organ.
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Similarly, if somebody is morbidly obese, you can see a doctor saying, you're not the best candidate.
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We see if you could lose some weight first because we want to give you the best chances of survival after your surgery.
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Those things, we would say, you can't argue against them.
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What makes it different with these vaccinations as opposed to the vaccinations that someone gets when they're a child,
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those vaccinations have 30 years or more of scientific data on their safety and efficacy.
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These vaccines are brand new and they're novel.
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Also, they're still in clinical trials, which most people don't realize.
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They have been in clinical trials since the beginning of the vaccine rollout.
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And so this requirement that came in place for Ms. Lewis and all the other transplant candidates in Alberta
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was put in place requiring them to take a vaccine that is still being tested for its safety and efficacy.
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And that came out in our case before the courts.
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And so why are they requiring a new medical product that is still in the testing phase?
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So they don't know what it could do to her or any other patients either before or after their surgery.
00:09:02.980
And so what makes this case even more important today is that I'm sure Ms. Lewis will talk to you.
00:09:12.740
She's just discovered that she has natural immunity to COVID-19.
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So certainly her case is even stronger than it was before at this point.
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There is no medical reason now why they should be denying her this transplant.
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Just to clear something up, Ms. Lewis, you're not against vaccinations in general, are you?
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Now, you have taken this, you've taken this, directing this question to Alison,
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you've taken this case to the Queen's bench, as it then was in Alberta,
00:10:06.360
Can you explain, I know it's very complex stuff, but can you explain briefly what the issue is?
00:10:14.720
Sure, we brought our claim as a claim under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms of Canada
00:10:25.140
And of course, when you are making a claim under the Charter and the Bill of Rights,
00:10:29.520
the party that you're making the claim against has to be either government or a government actor.
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So, Ms. Lewis sued the transplant doctors, the Alberta Health Services, and the hospital
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And the courts, both levels of court, found that the Charter of Rights and the Alberta Bill of Rights
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Our argument was, and we had cited Supreme Court of Canada case law,
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was that these doctors are carrying out a government function.
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They're acting as government actors because they're implementing a provincial transplant program,
00:11:12.880
And so, the courts found that, no, this is a clinical decision,
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that the doctors have made this COVID-19 vaccine policy is a clinical decision.
00:11:22.220
Our other argument, which was also rejected, was that, well,
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Alberta Health Services also has a vaccine policy.
00:11:32.120
One of her doctors told her that by November of 2021,
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AHS now was requiring all transplant candidates to receive the COVID-19 vaccine.
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So, in our estimation, this was a government policy.
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And the courts found that the government was copying the doctor's decision
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and therefore was immune to scrutiny under the Charter and the Alberta Bill of Rights,
00:12:03.740
And that is the reason why we have filed an application to have this case heard by the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:12:11.320
Well, the Supreme Court of Canada receives about 700 applications a year
00:12:18.260
and takes approximately, I believe, it's around 60 to 70 cases a year.
00:12:23.180
So, you know, we've said that, we've made a strong argument that this is of national importance
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this affects the relationship between doctors working within government programs
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and whether they are immune from charter scrutiny.
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And we think that is a very important issue that will transcend across the country.
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Well, I think there's another very important issue here.
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Ms. Lewis, tell us about your experience with COVID and how you developed a natural immunity.
00:13:00.400
I didn't even know I had COVID, to be honest with you.
00:13:04.000
I know in 2021, it was like September, I believe it was, August, September,
00:13:13.000
I got really bad chills, and I mean really bad chills.
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And I filled the tub up full of hot water, sat in it for a while, laid down.
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And then the very next week, it was the same thing next weekend.
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I got the chills again really bad within two days.
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I asked the transplant doctors two or three times to test me for natural immunity.
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And they said, no, they didn't do that anymore.
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Then the last time I asked him, I asked him again, I said, can you please test me for natural immunity?
00:14:02.580
He said, no, we don't do that anymore, and we're not going to test you.
00:14:14.980
The medical team that's looking after you, is it, that you're asking to test?
00:14:25.580
No, I even asked him just to send in a requisition to the lab, Dynalife lab where I live, and
00:14:33.200
they can come to the house, because they come to the house and do blood work anyway, and
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just send them in a requisition so they could do it.
00:14:42.560
Did they tell you why they wouldn't perform that test?
00:14:48.480
Now, I think you went and got your own test done.
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Somebody put me in contact with the doctor that does it in British Columbia, and yeah,
00:15:07.520
He sent me out the test kits so I can get tested.
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I tested myself and then sent the kits back for him to analyze them, and then when the test
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results in three weeks come back, the results were great.
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I had extreme high levels of antibodies for natural immunity.
00:15:27.940
Turning back to you, Ms. Blujovic, what do they do in the rest of the continent?
00:15:34.860
I don't have specifics on what hospitals in the U.S., as an example, don't require COVID-19
00:15:44.060
vaccines to perform transplants, but I do know that it is not required across the country.
00:15:50.120
So different hospitals in different states have different policies.
00:15:53.080
So I think there's a body called the American Transplant Association.
00:15:58.540
Are they a group that we should listen to, and if we should, then what do they say?
00:16:03.400
I can't recall if it's American Transplant Society or Association, but in any event, it
00:16:08.000
came out in the evidence in our application that they recommend the COVID-19 vaccinations before
00:16:21.340
They don't use language as though it's mandatory.
00:16:23.880
So certainly there are differences between hospitals.
00:16:28.180
So just because one medical administration does it this way, it doesn't necessarily mean
00:16:35.640
that every medical administration would do it that way, and therefore, what?
00:16:42.700
Well, therefore, I mean, there's, the science doesn't appear to be followed the same,
00:16:51.160
but it depends on the doctors, it depends on the team.
00:16:53.840
And unfortunately, in Canada, for Ms. Lewis, I think the other group that does transplantation
00:17:01.360
for her would be in Toronto, but to my knowledge, they also require the COVID-19 vaccination.
00:17:08.480
So in terms of getting a transplant in Canada, she's really stuck because of this requirement.
00:17:20.200
Well, I mean, we've sent a demand letter to her doctor's counsel and counsel for Albert
00:17:30.020
Health Services and the hospital, really outlining what the report found and kind of going through
00:17:38.880
some of the evidence that came out in the cross-examinations a year ago when we did them.
00:17:46.260
And what's interesting is that AHS's own expert in immunology actually admitted in cross-examination
00:17:53.820
that it's reasonable for her doctors to test her for natural immunity.
00:18:00.820
We didn't know at that time that she was naturally immune.
00:18:02.860
And the doctor's medical ethics expert, she also said it would be reasonable for them
00:18:12.200
We had to top immunologists as experts in our case.
00:18:17.300
So when I make comments about natural immunity and the vaccines, I'm not speaking as someone
00:18:22.940
who's professing to have any experience myself in immunology.
00:18:27.860
But we have detailed, lengthy, 70-foot noted peer-reviewed studies in one of the expert reports that we had.
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We've got top quality expertise here in immunology.
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And both of our experts testified and wrote in their reports that natural immunity is equal to
00:18:52.220
or stronger than the immunity from the vaccines, and they also expressed serious concerns about the safety
00:19:00.020
Now, as I said, natural immunity at that time was not an issue for Ms. Lewis, but that evidence is there.
00:19:11.740
And the CDC itself, in August of 2022, finally admitted that infection-acquired immunity
00:19:22.280
and vaccine immunity have resulted in drastic reductions in mortality and hospitalizations
00:19:36.280
And even still, this transplant team is not testing its candidates to see if they're naturally immune.
00:19:45.460
They've known that since last August, because as professionals looking at the CDC,
00:19:56.940
Natural immunity has been recognized in the scientific community at large as being very strong
00:20:07.860
Now, as the report said, natural immunity can wane, but so does the immunity from the vaccines.
00:20:15.820
And I know that very well from another case that I argued as a case before the Federal Court of Canada,
00:20:27.780
We cross-examined one of Canada's experts on the effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccines over time.
00:20:35.820
And after six months, that effectiveness drops to about 20%.
00:20:40.380
So any of these transplant candidates who were vaccinated more than six months ago,
00:20:49.540
you know, going by those numbers, how immune are they before they get their transplant if those vaccinations have been far in the past?
00:20:59.100
So the issue of natural immunity, we say that that has to be part of the conversation now.
00:21:05.820
If these doctors and NHS are going to be following the science,
00:21:10.420
otherwise you're going to see people like Ms. Lewis passing away needlessly going forward
00:21:17.440
when they are ignoring the scientific proof that natural immunity is strong and durable
00:21:23.960
and ought to be considered as an alternative to COVID-19 vaccination.
00:21:29.200
Attorney, Ms. Lewis, I'm sure you have had advice about the booster that they recommended,
00:21:36.960
well, actually demanded as the last hurdle for admission to the procedure for you.
00:21:44.260
Do you have the same reservations about the booster as you had about the original vaccine?
00:21:53.340
Well, the booster, I wouldn't recommend the booster to anybody.
00:22:05.880
Like Allison said, they're still in clinical trials.
00:22:11.280
They're still being tested for safety and effectiveness.
00:22:17.460
And how they can demand us to take a booster or a vaccine is beyond comprehensible.
00:22:40.860
I just wanted to be sure that you would not, whether you would even consider, after all this time,
00:22:48.240
and with what's at stake, whether you would consider taking the booster just to move this along.
00:23:00.120
And as far as I made a lot of calls, I have a lot of time in my hands, of course.
00:23:08.940
I wanted to see why Canada has such harsh, harsh protocol when it comes to these vaccines.
00:23:18.080
So I made a lot of calls to the United States, to lots of hospitals.
00:23:25.380
They have, in the United States, one of the firms that I contacted has emailed me and spoke to me
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and said they don't understand what laws and what they're going by in Canada.
00:23:42.660
But they said in the United States, every state is different.
00:23:49.200
Whether they want the vaccine or not, there's 60% of the hospitals in the United States
00:23:58.200
that do not require a vaccine to get transplanted for an organ.
00:24:09.840
And I've had very good responses to the answers that I've asked towards the vaccine.
00:24:16.920
Do you know where that 60% number came from, Ms. Lewis?
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I think we might want to follow up on that with you.
00:24:35.520
Alison, I think I'd like to end with some speculation on what this really means for everybody else.
00:24:48.720
But if natural immunity is recognized as superseding the need for vaccination in case of COVID,
00:25:01.320
surely would that not have wide implications for a lot of people?
00:25:07.520
After all, this happened in the last two years.
00:25:11.020
It would have implications for other transplant candidates, for starters.
00:25:16.020
You know, we would say due to the results from this blood test, which was very detailed,
00:25:25.720
It told, you know, when she was infected, as specific as she was infected and had recovered
00:25:34.340
Imagine the possibilities for other people who, for whatever reason, whether they have
00:25:39.800
objections to taking a drug that's still in testing phase, whether they have an allergy
00:25:44.020
to something in the drug, to be able to get tested for natural immunity, that could open
00:25:51.220
We're the first to say that we don't believe there should be any vaccine mandate whatsoever.
00:25:55.560
But if there is going to be a requirement for vaccination for anything, then natural immunity
00:26:02.160
has to be part of that discussion and has to be an alternative because the science is there
00:26:09.200
And so that would transcend into the employment sphere, people who've been let go from their
00:26:20.900
We should have that further developed and available for people in this country and around the world
00:26:25.740
to see how immune are you and vaccinated people should be tested for immunity to compare the
00:26:32.700
immunity between the antibodies and the blood from people who are vaccinated and people who aren't
00:26:40.940
So those are conversations that have to be had in our view for people's rights to be respected
00:26:52.420
And so, you know, we're really looking, we're looking to these doctors and EHS to come to
00:27:00.360
the table here and say, you know, it's time that we accept natural immunity as an alternative.
00:27:06.360
Someone like Ms. Lewis and other transplant candidates, if they can demonstrate that, then
00:27:12.300
yes, there are good candidates for a transplant.
00:27:18.600
It's unbelievable and it's jaw-dropping and, you know, we're at a loss for words as to why
00:27:28.360
they are continuing to refuse her this transplant.
00:27:36.700
But thinking about the rest of the world, people who were let go from their jobs because they
00:27:42.680
didn't have the vaccination, wouldn't have the vaccination, is there the possibility they
00:27:49.740
could turn around and sue for unjust dismissal, dismissal without cause, to do damages?
00:27:57.360
Is there something going forward that we would have to?
00:28:01.180
Well, I'm not an employment lawyer, but certainly if there was a natural immunity that was being
00:28:06.940
ignored, I could see the door opening for lawsuits to come in that would have to be looked at by
00:28:13.320
But my point is that, you know, from the expert opinion on both sides, from our case, I can
00:28:22.660
safely and confidently say, and the CDC's, you know, admission, acknowledgement of natural
00:28:33.140
This levels the playing field now, and there is no excuse for this, for employers, physicians
00:28:44.660
to be ignoring natural immunity and not to have that conversation and not to explore what
00:28:51.680
it means and have experts look into, you know, the results of these blood tests and perform
00:28:59.360
Why are we, why are we continuing to ignore this?
00:29:02.020
And this is going to result, for some people, in loss of their jobs, but in someone like
00:29:07.420
Ms. Lewis's case, it's, her life is going to end, and it could end over this failure
00:29:13.840
to accept natural immunity, which is scientifically proven now.
00:29:19.480
This, to me, seems like a tremendously important case.
00:29:29.440
When you're talking about somebody's life here, it's a, it's a, it's a 10 out of 10.
00:29:41.840
I really appreciate you coming on the show today, your candor and your honesty and your
00:29:48.260
willingness to share your intimate details of your life.
00:29:52.020
You're a brave woman, and I, I just wish you all the best going forward.
00:30:02.160
The, this fight that I've been in for, you know, against the transplant to see if they'll
00:30:11.940
reinstate me for the last couple of years, or at least the last year for sure, even though
00:30:20.960
They're supposed to test me once every year for my organs.
00:30:25.280
They're supposed to touch my, test my organs, make sure my heart is okay in case, you know,
00:30:30.400
when I was on the transplant donor list, in case I got an organ that came in for me, my
00:30:39.380
My other organs would have to be okay, like in good work and order.
00:30:42.840
They haven't tested me now for like two years now.
00:30:46.380
Um, and I needed to know that, but they won't do the test.
00:30:51.740
And what do you conclude from the fact that they won't continue to test you?
00:31:07.360
There's a lot of people that have been refused a transplant because for whatever reason,
00:31:19.140
He's like a lot younger than me with a, he has a heart condition and he was refused his
00:31:36.940
And she was refused a transplant because she didn't take the vaccines for whatever reasons
00:31:48.660
There's people around the country that's devastated and they're dying.
00:31:54.640
These doctors are letting people die because of something that they really haven't even
00:32:02.000
It's still in, in the clinical trials and we are sentenced to death at a young age because
00:32:10.760
we are, we're, I think we're all agreed here in this, in this discussion that this is indeed
00:32:21.620
It just devastates me to know there's people out there suffering.
00:32:26.900
They're suffering because somebody chose to write a policy and say, you are going to die
00:32:40.560
And that's the end of the sentence of dot is there, but there's so many people in this
00:32:45.160
country and around the world that are dying and I can't do anything to help them.
00:32:50.380
All I can do is try to fight this, but they won't budge.
00:33:02.180
They have families and children and they have their life ahead of them.
00:33:10.580
Like my God, what's it going to take for them to turn this around?
00:33:18.980
People like yourself, Ms. Lewis, who won't give up on the efforts of dedicated legal professionals
00:33:37.420
I'll fight and I'll keep fighting for the people.
00:33:44.460
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