EXCLUSIVE： One on one conversation about Aitchison's campaign to lead the CPC.
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Summary
In this episode, I speak with Ontario MP for the United Conservative Party, Doug Ford. Doug Ford is a former mayor of a small town in Ontario and is now running to become the next Prime Minister of Canada. He has been a long-time member of the Ontario House of Commons and has been in politics for a long time. In this episode we talk about his journey into politics, his leadership campaign and his vision for the future of the party.
Transcript
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All right. Well, thank you very much for coming to the Western Standard Studios, Mr. Aitchison.
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I've been looking forward to it. We've been watching the conservative leadership race with
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a lot of interest. It's been an interesting one already, lively, I guess you could say,
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and different. A lot of contenders. There's six of you going for it in the campaign. It's going
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to be a long one going all the way until September 10th. So I'm glad we got a chance to speak early
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because I'm certain there's going to be a lot of developments as the campaign unfolds.
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Well, thank you for having me. It's a great honor to be here. It's my first time at the
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Western Standard. So it's great to be here. Yeah. And so you're out west and you're a member
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of parliament from out in Ontario. You've been active in politics for quite some time. So
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maybe I'll start, I guess, with a bit of your campaign challenges that will come out when
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getting across the country. It's a weighted system for the leadership, so many votes providing. So
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you certainly have to reach out to every region and develop support and bring that in. How's that
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been going for you as you travel in your campaign so far? Well, it's been going well. I, you know,
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as you mentioned, I'm a newer member of parliament and probably as famous as a former mayor of small
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town Ontario community would be. But, you know, the message is resonating. We're really pleased with it.
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And we've been doing an awful lot of social media and digital outreach as well. So touring across the
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country has been a lot of fun. It's been great to meet conservatives from coast to coast.
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Right. And I mean, as I kind of said earlier with six candidates in a field, I mean, it's hard to
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stand out, but one of the things that I want to talk a bit about the debates, but the first debate,
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and I watched it, it was the unofficial one, I guess, with a Canada strong and free network.
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The way you stood out, actually, I found to be a calm voice of reason, whilst the others were
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quite frisky with each other, I guess, to say it politely, but you stuck to your message and you were
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quiet. But at the same time, it's hard. And I appreciated that. I think a lot of viewers appreciated
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that. And that's when they discovered you that night, I think. But at the same time,
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it must be difficult for you because you can, it's hard to stand out in that crowd when the
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other two are stealing the spotlight. Well, I think the tone is really,
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really important. It's going to be very important in the next election. And I think that when we talk
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about, you know, what's going on in Ottawa, or what's not going on in Ottawa, as it might be,
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I spoke about this most recently in my speech in response to the government's use of the Emergency
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Measures Act related to the convoy in Ottawa. You know, the way we talk about, you know,
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dividing Canadians and pitting each other against each other to win votes, that kind of divisive
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rhetoric and that kind of, you know, zero-sum game approach to politics, winning is everything,
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it might serve your short-term purposes, but it actually divides the country. And I just think
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that we need to be, as Conservatives particularly, have an opportunity as a truly national party,
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with representation across the country, to talk about the things that unites us and brings us
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together. And I don't think it's easy to do that if we're fighting amongst ourselves. And I think we
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need to build trust amongst, you know, Canadians that live in areas where we haven't been winning.
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And so the best way to do that is, I think, is with a principled conservative message, but also
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delivering that message with a tone of respect. We need to be listening to each other and build that
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trust and show some unity. It doesn't have to be uniform, but we have to be unified.
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And I appreciate that. I mean, the infighting can be devastating to a party, and I don't expect you
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to speak to our provincial issues, but we are experiencing quite something here, you know,
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with the United Conservative Party that came in with such a strong majority. And right now,
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in public polling, they're in abysmal shape within Alberta. And much of it's due to the fact that
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they've all been at each other's throats for the last couple of years, rather than managing the
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province. And as we see, as you said, some of the tone coming out in this race, there's a risk of
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that. I mean, if you divide the party too much, it could damage the whole.
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Well, I think there's no shortage of, I think, frustration across the country, really,
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especially related to COVID and lockdowns and, you know, the uncertainty of it and the length of
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lockdowns. There's no question there's frustration and anger. I get that. But just fanning the flames of
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that anger doesn't actually solve any problems. I think it's important for us to be talking about
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policy ideas. I think elections are perfect opportunities for us to talk policy. And so,
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instead of attacking each other, we should be talking about ideas that conservatives want to
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talk about and that we can then talk to the rest of Canadians about and sell our message and form a
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majority government. Getting into some of those mechanisms, as I warned you, I did want to talk a
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little bit about those two debates. They were radically different from each other. One, the
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first one, as I said, was very adversarial, very heated, kind of allowed for a free for all. The
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second one was exceedingly moderated, very unusually. So paddles and the horn interrupting people and
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things such as that. I want to speak my own point of view. I don't think either worked well to communicate
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the message of the candidates out to people or terribly effectively. What are ways that these events
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perhaps could be improved? Because we do want to see all the candidates. We want to see that interchange
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and such. But where can we hit the mark with these sorts of events? Well, I'm not exactly sure how we
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can improve them. But this much I do know is that the second debate, while I mean, it's a little bit
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goofy in certain parts, at least there was a little more, you know, meat on the bone. There's a little more
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policy discussion. I think that's important. We didn't get into, I think, enough policy issues. We didn't
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really talk enough about foreign policy. We didn't talk enough about housing. I feel like I missed an
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opportunity to talk more about housing. So it's a bit better, for sure. But I guess it speaks to the,
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you know, the importance of all the candidates, making sure they get their message out and
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crisscrossing the country and talking to Conservatives about ideas to bring the country,
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move the country forward and to present a platform to Canadians that will resonate,
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not just in the areas we consistently win, but where we need to win as well.
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Right now, housing, I mean, that's a big issue. It's an acute one. And you've made it a large part
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of your platform. Young people, I can't imagine how they can get into the housing market right now.
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I mean, inflation is hitting us all around. But we've got a massive housing shortage. You know,
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the supply is the issue, people wanting to get into the market, labor shortage. I mean, it's a very
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complicated issue, but it's pressing. And I guess that's part of the largest part where you're
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standing up. Do you want to expand a bit on your housing policy?
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Yeah. Well, I mean, I speak to this issue of housing. It's in part one of the reasons why
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I left my job as mayor of my community to run federally, because of course, at the local level
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in Huntsville, we were doing all kinds of things. We were partnering with developers,
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we were giving land away to Habitat for Humanity, we were waiving fees and doing all kinds of stuff.
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But what was missing always was a reliable federal partner to help with funding more than anything
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else to just bridge the gap on maybe affordable rental units, for example, to make those numbers
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add up and make sense. And so it's the biggest reason why I decided to run ultimately. And of
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course, I got to Ottawa and find a liberal government that is long on promises. They've
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lots of funding announcements and photo ops with funding announcements, but you haven't seen many
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ribbon cuttings. And that's because they just not get the job done. And so the government, of course,
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of Canada can't just wave a magic wand and just, you know, tell cities how to run their show.
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But I believe strongly that the federal government can take leadership, working collaboratively with
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provinces and cities to help, you know, reduce the backlog. You know, in larger centers, it can take
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up to two or three years to get zoning approval and site plan approval and all the approvals required
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to just get shovels in the ground. When you're in a housing crisis, when supply is the issue,
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that's not acceptable. Canadians are suffering and we need to do better. And so the federal government
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can take leadership by tying the billions of dollars that the federal government assists
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municipalities and provinces with on infrastructure to real results on the ground. And so I say we can
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work together to eliminate things like exclusionary zoning. We can increase densities without affecting
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character in all kinds of neighborhoods all across Canada. And that's something that we absolutely have
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to get done. Just talking about it and promising money isn't getting the job done.
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That's where your municipal experience can apply towards this sort of negotiation. And actually,
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it's a subject I've been on a lot here in Calgary. We're actually at eight years right now from
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plan to development at this point. And of course, your development could be shut down at any point
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throughout that process too. And that's left us with a terrible backlog.
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Well, this is the thing. I guess it's where I probably, you know, I bring a lot of experience
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in this regard. I mean, you know, Huntsville is a lot smaller community, but the principles are the
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same and the process is generally similar. You know, development and investment requires,
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they really like certainty. They, you know, they don't like instability. They don't like uncertainty.
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These timelines, these processes, there's no reason why there can't be, you know, specific timelines
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related to getting things done as, you know, getting through this process. I used to do that
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as the chair of planning in my community. And then as the mayor, we guaranteed timelines to get,
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you know, reports and approvals done. We didn't skip any steps. We didn't skirt any corners. We didn't
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loosen the rules. We made it very clear that these are the rules. You follow these rules,
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we can proceed. And developers worked really well with that because it was certainty. Just tell us
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the rules. Part of the problem you have right now in municipalities, in a lot of cases, especially
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larger centers, you have, you know, ward counselors that try to teach, they kind of treat their wards like
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their own fiefdom. And of course, the loudest voices in the room tend to get the most, the most
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attention and you have YIMBYs. And so I've got a YIMBY plan. Yes, in my backyard. We need to
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increase those densities. We need to improve these processes. We need to speed up the timelines.
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And the federal government can play a leadership role in working with the provinces and cities to
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get that done. I speak that language. I've been doing it for years, creating collaboration,
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partnerships and moving things forward. Great. Another area, and it's, it speaks to inflationary
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values. And it's a spot where you've stood out from other candidates as well. And it's not an
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issue that you hear a lot coast to coast, but it's supply management. It's Canada's
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dairy poultry management system. It's been around since I believe the early 70s. You're the, well,
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I believe Mr. Baber has now come out against it, but initially you were the only candidate who's
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spoken out against that policy. Why have you decided to take that stance when the others won?
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Well, for me, this is all about affordability, but it's also about opportunity.
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So supply management costs the average Canadian family about $600 a year in the grocery bill. So
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it's making milk and cheese and dairy products more expensive. And that's particularly difficult in
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a time when carbon taxes are making life more expensive and inflation is making life more
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expensive. I represent people in my community and I know there are people across this country that
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are struggling to heat their homes and put real food on the table. The other side of this issue,
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of course, is that farmers are trapped in a system that limits their potential, limits their opportunity.
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New Zealand, a country of 5 million people, exported $17 billion worth of dairy products
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around the world last year. Canada, a country of almost 40 million people, exported 378 million.
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There's huge opportunity to be unleashed for Canadian farmers that produce
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world-class dairy products that can market it to the world.
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And so I don't think this is a question of pitting farmers against consumers.
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I think it's a question of making life more affordable for Canadian families, but I also see
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it as an opportunity for the government to assist in a transition away from a system that maintains
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a status quo and it might be stable, but transitions away from that system and in collaboration and
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cooperation with farmers helps them create new markets around the world that farmers can then,
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Yeah, and it's understandable. You can't just flick a switch and stop the system. It would
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disrupt the entire markets and put people bankrupt. I mean, you know, they're heavily invested in
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those quotas, but just seeing somebody start to say, well, we've got to set an end to this is
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Well, it's… and it, you know, there are vested interests. I mean, I think the dairy lobby is pretty
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powerful on Parliament Hill and I just think that they're missing out on an opportunity. And if we work
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together, we can… we can make… we can make Canadian dairy, you know, a coveted… coveted products
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Great. So speaking across the country then, getting out of unity, it's a big, broad issue and it's one
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in Canada we've always got. Quebec used to be the more acute one. You'd hear more through the 80s and
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90s, but now in the West, we're getting pretty upset with a lot of policies out here. One that recently
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came up was… it was the court ruling on C-69. It's now headed… heading to the Supreme Court of Canada,
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we're… we'll see. I don't hold a lot of confidence. It's going to uphold the provincial
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ruling, but we'll see. But we've felt a lot in the West that we've been either ignored or taken
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for granted or at times even outright abused by the government. How can you end some of that
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national unity right now when people are feeling so divided?
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Well, and this is… this is one of the key issues that I think speaks to this divisive rhetoric that
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we've seen. We've seen a Liberal government for the last seven years that has been quite happy to
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demonize Western Canadians and particularly Albertans and Saskatchewan.
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What's the… what's the… what's the… what's the… Saskatchewanian, I guess?
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Saskatchewanian, I guess? But happy to demonize the hard-working folks in these two
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provinces that are the energy superpower of our country to win votes in downtown Toronto.
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What we need to talk to each other about is the fact that not only is Canadian energy the most ethically
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produced energy in the world, but we're bringing in… we're bringing in things… oil from places like
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Saudi Arabia and Venezuela that is not ethically produced. And the other important factor, of
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course, is that, you know, the oil sands here in Fort McMurray has reduced their carbon output on
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their production by 30 percent over the last 15 years. They're responsible. These are responsible
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producers that are doing their part to help reduce Canada's footprint overall. So we need to… we need to
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listen to each other. This is part of the challenge. We need to start listening to each other's
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Canadians and recognizing that Albertans care as much about the future of this planet as do people
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in downtown Toronto. And I know there's people in downtown Toronto that think taxes are too high as
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well. So we need leaders that actually start talking about things that unites us, brings us together,
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instead of focusing on ways to win elections, through division. This is a key area. This is an
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Yeah, about… and I've asked every other candidate on this too, and it's a tough one,
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is equalization. I understand it's constitutionally entrenched, but there is room to work perhaps on
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the formula or ways that it's administered and things like that without tearing open the nightmare
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of the constitution. Would you look at addressing equalization as many out here feel that perhaps
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it's not been applied fairly or properly over the last few decades?
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Yeah, I actually think that equalization is one piece of a much broader conversation that the federal
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government needs to have with the provinces. I think that the relationship that exists now between
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the federal government and provincial governments is unhealthy. And a big part of that is equalization,
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but another big part of that is our health care system. Canadians wear as a badge of honor,
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almost part of our identity, that we have this amazing health care system. It's the best in the
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world. And the truth of the matter is, it's not the best in the world. It's failing Canadians. It's
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part of the reason… it's one of the things that I hope we have learned through COVID-19 is that we don't
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have the best health care system in the world. And part of the reason for that is, of course, it was
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created on a promise from the federal government, meddling in provincial affairs again, to pay 50%
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of the cost. We've never lived up to that promise as a federal government. And as a result, you see
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provinces struggling to keep up with, you know, the growing burden of health care services. And they're
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not fiscally sustainable as a result. I think it's time for a more respectful relationship between the
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federal government and the provinces on all of these issues and create more fairness in the system
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that actually respects the role of the provinces and gets the federal government out of meddling in
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provincial affairs. The provinces actually run this country. They actually run the country.
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A lot could be avoided if we just stick to the jurisdictional things we already have in the
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constitution. And honestly, the federal government was created… you look at the constitution,
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the provinces came together and created this federal government for a lot of different reasons. One of which,
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though, was to actually help create new markets in the world. And if the federal government focused
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on the things that it was meant to do, things like making sure we have, you know, a well-equipped
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armed services, instead of playing games with provincial services, we could focus on the things that
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we're supposed to. We wouldn't have embarrassing situations like we have right now, where we've taken
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decades too long to replace fighter jets that are 50, almost 50 years old. And we would be a reliable
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partner with our allies. And our allies wouldn't be creating new alliances without us because
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we just won't show up to the table. We haven't been a reliable partner. So the federal government
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needs to get back to doing what it was created to do in the first place and start doing it well.
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Great. Well, before I let you go, are there some other policy points you want to hit before I
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let you out of the studio and back onto the campaign show?
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Well, we could talk for hours about the policy.
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But honestly, the biggest thing for me is about affordability. This is a question about affordability
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for Canadians across this country. I think that this race should be about policies that make life
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more affordable for Canadians. And I think if that is our message as conservatives going forward,
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we will form the next government and we can get rid of a tired Liberal government.
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Great. So where can people find more information about your campaign and follow-up or support?
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It's very easy. Since nobody knows how to pronounce or spell my last name,
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Great. Well, I appreciate that. But I think Mr. Polyev has still had more name mispronunciations
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going on than yourself. He probably has actually, yes.
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Your second. Well, thank you very much for coming in and joining us today.
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And I look forward to talking to you again down the road.