Western Standard - FILDEBRANDT： The war against mass migration

00:00:00.000 Today we're going to be speaking with Martin Sellner.

00:00:27.540 He is the head of the Remigration Institute based in Austria.

00:00:32.700 He is an author of books like Regime Change from the Right and has been a prominent intellectual

00:00:42.160 and leader in the identitarian and remigration movement in Europe and particularly in the

00:00:49.740 German-speaking world, obviously Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and some other adjacent

00:00:55.380 countries.

00:00:56.680 I'm pleased today to be joined by Martin Sellner,

00:01:00.360 coming to us, I believe, from Vienna.

00:01:02.300 Welcome, Martin.

00:01:04.540 Thank you very much.

00:01:05.720 Thanks for having me.

00:01:06.440 I'm looking forward to this discussion.

00:01:08.280 I got that right.

00:01:08.880 You're in Vienna right now, right?

00:01:11.000 Yes.

00:01:11.960 Very good.

00:01:12.580 Beautiful city.

00:01:13.620 Everyone who has not been to see the Ringstrasse

00:01:16.540 and the Opera House and the Parliament,

00:01:19.400 it's a gorgeous, gorgeous city.

00:01:21.460 I'm very envious.

00:01:23.360 Absolutely.

00:01:25.840 All right. I want to talk to you for a little while now. Your name has been, I think, emerging, you know, first from Austria and then across the broader German-speaking world, then Europe, and it's even starting to get its way into North America.

00:01:42.640 I expect that I'm going to get an email after we publish this interview from the Canadian Anti-Hate Network, Press Progress, the usual round of people who think that any vision beyond having a multicultural economic zone makes one an extremist racist.

00:02:03.940 So I'm expecting that to happen because I've seen your name pop up as someone who's very dangerous and should not be talked to, listened to or read about, which is why I have to talk to you now.

00:02:16.080 So I guess we'll just start.

00:02:20.020 Some people, I want to see maybe if this is correct, some people have attributed the term remigration itself to you.

00:02:28.000 Is that fair?

00:02:28.700 well no um the word itself does not come from me it was used scientifically in political sciences

00:02:37.820 all the time and it was yeah just a very like um factual term for the pros of somebody

00:02:45.820 returning to his homeland but then in france in the year of 2012 2013 french identitarians were

00:02:54.040 starting to use the term in an activist context and we took it because we founded the biggest

00:03:00.280 patriotic ngo the austrian chapter the identitarian movement and we were the first one to put

00:03:07.000 re-migration into actions we had banners we had flyers with re-migration and then in the year

00:03:13.560 about 2022 23 after covid there was a huge push against from us with a re-migration campaign and

00:03:21.000 then it took on speed and i have the credentials bloomberg you know bloomberg they wrote in a big

00:03:28.040 analysis piece that i was the most important re-migration influencer during this period so

00:03:33.720 yeah i take this badge of honor and i think we've been very influenced in mainstreaming this term

00:03:39.400 and this idea on the globe okay well i think that yeah that's certainly fair that's i've seen your

00:03:44.520 name associated with it quite a bit uh i mean i mean maybe for those who aren't as deep into this

00:03:50.280 uh topic maybe explain what what is re-migration and what is identitarianism yeah so i think i

00:03:57.640 started through migration because it's actually quite easy you have immigration you have re-migration

00:04:02.680 re-migration means the process of inversing these flows of migration not just closing the border

00:04:08.600 but also sending illegals home but also creating push and pull factors so that unwanted migration

00:04:14.760 also unwanted legal migration stops and people who don't fit uh slowly but sadly go home there

00:04:21.960 are many proposals many concepts we have an amazing deportation policy from restore britain

00:04:27.560 i've written a book myself about this issue and it's basically just uh the 180 degree answer the

00:04:34.680 inversion of all the multiculturalist policies we had until then so that in summary is remigration

00:04:41.000 it means we stay and they go and uh this is based obviously on identitarianism which is

00:04:47.640 uh kind of um an umbrella term for national conservative right-wing thinking in europe

00:04:55.160 there's the european new right i don't know if your viewers are familiar with that it's a

00:04:59.240 philosophical political movement which was very prominent in france and germany after the second

00:05:04.200 world war and basically understood okay the core of all right-wing politics has to be the identity

00:05:11.000 the ethnocultural identity and continuity as a threat so it's not so much about a political system

00:05:17.640 or an economic system or a certain belief set no it's about this threat and this is basically the

00:05:24.040 ideology of identitarianism it means putting identity putting the people first and trying

00:05:29.160 to create an alliance and creating a bridge between all these different ideological and

00:05:34.040 economical sects that splinter the right. So, I mean, it's, that's obviously a movement

00:05:41.020 mostly associated with the right, but, uh, you know, I, I think from what I've taken away from

00:05:46.940 your saying and, you know, what I've observed, it's not exclusive to the right there, you know,

00:05:51.640 there's, uh, you know, the Danish social Democrats for an example, I think, uh, could be considered

00:05:57.320 kind of a light version of identitarianism, but found on the center left. Uh, I don't,

00:06:03.120 Maybe you want to correct me if I'm wrong about that, but it doesn't seem to be exclusive to the right.

00:06:06.880 It's just obviously most associated with the right because the right tends traditionally to be more nationalistic than the left, but not exclusively.

00:06:14.980 True, absolutely.

00:06:15.820 You know, I think there are many arguments and many cases to be made for re-migration also from an ecological or even like labor and lefting perspective.

00:06:26.420 There are a lot of critiques.

00:06:27.600 unfortunately they're very alone within their political scene from the left who say mass

00:06:33.840 migration is undercutting wages it's against the interest of the working class mass migration is

00:06:39.040 making the rich richer and it's also keeping up an unfair and unbalanced world system so

00:06:45.680 this mass exodus especially from skilled people the brain drain from africa is not making africa

00:06:51.840 richer safer or better it's a very important moral case for immigration and also ecologically if you

00:06:57.840 look at europe and especially countries like switzerland austria germany this idea of ever

00:07:04.400 growing nations where we don't have enough space and we have to cut down all our forests and

00:07:09.600 destroy all our beautiful meadows just to increase building and housing for millions of africans and

00:07:16.560 arabs coming in are also very important arguments found on the left and you're absolutely right and

00:07:21.520 spot on the danish social democrats are way more progressive in their immigration policy right now

00:07:28.400 than the german christian conservatives and you see a also very important point that i always

00:07:34.240 focus on metapolitics how important is the public discourse um and uh how this public discourse

00:07:42.560 and public perception always trumps the political party system uh well yeah i i do want to get into

00:07:47.600 of metapolitics, but we'll get to there. We'll talk to maybe about the issues first, but I am

00:07:52.100 interested in that and how you see that fitting in. Why would you use the term identitarian

00:07:58.840 as opposed to nationalism? I know in Germany and Austria, the term nationalism carries some

00:08:05.920 unwanted historical baggage, but certainly outside of Germany and Austria, I think it carries less

00:08:13.020 of a stigma but uh what would you see as the difference between them and why would you kind

00:08:18.640 of choose to use the term identitarian more than nationalism how philosophical can i get in my

00:08:24.700 answer that's the question that's up to you so yeah you're right like the term national obviously

00:08:30.380 has kind of a baggage in austria and germany people see it and it's perceived as way more

00:08:36.780 radical than for example in the anglosphere but for us also identitarian and identity is a term

00:08:42.120 which is way more bigger and also older because if you look at the modern nation nation state

00:08:47.800 it's quite a new phenomenon the and one of important hero of a movement is leonidas the

00:08:53.800 spartan king or prince again the french guy who fought for the austrian army against the ottomans

00:08:59.400 and back then you didn't really have nations and so we think that also just focusing on the

00:09:04.920 nation state national identity has some pitfalls for example you cannot really achieve a european

00:09:10.120 unity like this idea of being united here also in the whole west and as your people with european

00:09:15.400 descent and for me identity is just the encompassing term because there is a threat from leonidas to

00:09:23.720 us from prince organ to us and over different changes of political systems from tribes to

00:09:31.240 nations to empires this always has been our identity and that's why we defended and that's

00:09:36.360 one of our four thinkers and that's as philosophical as it will get said identity is what

00:09:41.560 stays the same during change and that's what what we want to defend and that's why we love this term

00:09:49.480 am i correct then in saying that identitarianism is kind of national it's then just kind of

00:09:55.480 pan-european nationalism not in the eu bureaucratic sense which i think is actually anti-nationalist

00:10:01.480 uh you know it's it's against the you know the the identities of of europe's nation states but

00:10:07.640 uh identitarianism would be like kind of pan-european nationalism without the anti-national

00:10:14.040 nationalism is that a fair way of looking at this it's a good way but we are not like european

00:10:21.400 nationalists like we we believe in the nation state obviously but as identarians we try to

00:10:26.200 balance the three levels of identity as we say it's like the civilization level which obviously

00:10:30.680 is above the nation the national level and the regional level we also love regional cultures

00:10:35.480 we are big fans of regional identity regional culture which is very important to us so we

00:10:40.600 don't like it when for example the nation state act as an agent of equalizing everything and

00:10:46.600 destroying regional cultures but also if you only focus on the nation state you can forget

00:10:51.320 the civilizational bond but obviously we are also against the european bureaucracy so

00:10:55.320 So identitarian just basically means balancing out those three levels,

00:10:58.840 defending them, and also understanding the both sides of your identity,

00:11:02.580 which is ethnic and cultural.

00:11:04.200 So we say our identity has three layers and two sides.

00:11:08.480 And as identitarians, we want to understand it and defend all of it.

00:11:14.560 So the, you know, nationalists, identitarians,

00:11:20.060 uh you know the the obvious kind of knee-jerk uh reaction or critique of them is like well

00:11:27.500 that's racism that's discriminatory it's a it's exclusionary um i mean you obviously will get

00:11:36.800 that on a daily basis that's kind of just what what they'll throw at you um i don't know what

00:11:42.860 what's the response to that that uh you know the focus on your you know your identity your ethnicity

00:11:48.880 uh your nationality wanting to you know make sure austrian austria is austrian france is french

00:11:56.600 england is english um you know how do you respond to your critics they'll just say well you're just

00:12:03.300 uh you know racist ethnocentrists yeah racism as you know is a conversation ender it's basically

00:12:12.840 always a sign that the other side has no arguments left and racism has become a code word for

00:12:17.720 anti-european and very often anti-white hatred and sentiments because it's only brought up

00:12:24.860 against european and white people when they just want to exist and just want to cherish the

00:12:31.060 existence and preserve the existence and um identitarianism in my opinion is the absolute

00:12:36.340 opposite to real racism which is when you hate groups when you have a blanket hatred against

00:12:42.400 groups or you want to kill people or really treat them in a negative way just based on the ethnicity

00:12:47.420 because as an identitarian patriot i love my own culture but i respect all the others because when

00:12:54.860 i love my own culture how could i deny anyone else to love and to maintain his own culture so

00:13:00.280 what we want actually is a multipolar world full of identities and full of nations and we just

00:13:05.560 demand politely but also very consequently our own place and our own country in this world and

00:13:14.420 to claim that this is racist is completely outrageous and i just want to make this more

00:13:20.580 concrete with an with a little anecdote ellen musk whom we all know an ex he's talking very

00:13:26.280 often about natalism about increasing birth rates and he was talking very often about japan and

00:13:31.940 south korea that south koreans are dying out we need to increase the birth rates there

00:13:35.500 nobody cared and suddenly when he started talking about europeans and said we need to save white

00:13:41.720 europeans everybody's freaking out exactly same situation same terms but suddenly it's obviously

00:13:48.200 seen as offensive to not want to fade away into the darkness and i think this in itself if we

00:13:55.720 want to talk about real racism is actually racism when you want to deny a whole ethnic group is the

00:14:02.360 right for an identity the right for pride and the right for survival so i would say no that's

00:14:06.760 completely wrong but i'm very happy when my opponents bring this up because it's been so

00:14:11.000 overused that nobody cares anymore so it's a very very big argument we um we published a guest column

00:14:19.400 from uh daniel tyree of the canadian dominion society and you know they're very involved in

00:14:25.640 the remigration uh project um and it was called what is a canadian and uh you know he tried to

00:14:34.760 make the argument that it's well it's you know the original indigenous people and it's uh largely the

00:14:40.120 descendants of the original english scottish irish and french settlers and then other europeans who

00:14:45.880 came and successfully assimilated into it uh you know i i come my family's germany austria etc but

00:14:52.680 we've largely assimilated into anglo-canadian culture um but you also have to say you have

00:14:59.800 an austrian face i have an austrian face i don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing my prussian

00:15:04.520 oh it's an amazing it's the best thing it's the best thing but if i would see you on the street

00:15:08.280 i would think like you're you look austrian maybe from upper austria something like that so that

00:15:12.360 that would be my my classification well thank you thank you but my prussian opa might not like that

00:15:18.280 but my my more austrian bohemian oma would so um so he so you know defining what is a ethnic

00:15:27.240 canadian is is much more difficult i think than defining what is an ethnic austrian was an all

00:15:32.840 ethnic Frenchmen, ethnic

00:15:34.560 Pole, Englishmen, etc.

00:15:37.780 Because those are

00:15:38.600 ancient countries, and the people

00:15:40.660 are genuinely indigenous to the

00:15:42.740 land, for the most part.

00:15:44.520 European borders have shifted, etc.

00:15:46.740 But for the most part, largely indigenous to the

00:15:48.660 areas.

00:15:53.180 The question,

00:15:57.000 the headline was posed as a question,

00:15:58.840 what is a Canadian? And we've got

00:16:00.680 someone, I think we're expecting a

00:16:02.600 bottle piece to it today someone who disagrees maybe with how he defined it um but i think it'd

00:16:08.920 be okay well i'll just ask you then what is an austrian i would say um austrian is obviously

00:16:18.600 somebody who lives here has this austrian passport in the legal sense but apart from this

00:16:26.280 classification you also have the very long and very ancient history of the people who

00:16:32.520 have been living here and for this you have um a culture an ethnicity a lineage but also

00:16:39.320 a consciousness and i think these uh things together the lineage the culture but also the

00:16:44.360 consciousness of being an austrian and of being part of this um as edmund burke put it this deep

00:16:52.520 pact this contract between those who are living those who have passed away and those who are yet

00:16:57.160 to come this makes somebody an austrian but obviously i would say apart from that if it

00:17:03.480 gets to be more concrete we are people that loves to eat we have amazing music uh we we are have

00:17:11.400 the perfect combination between the rigidity the order from the german culture language sphere

00:17:17.320 which we're obviously a part of together mixed with a bit of southern and eastern european flavor

00:17:22.040 so that's that's what you have in vienna that's what they have in austria and obviously we are

00:17:25.800 also deeply shaped our history because austria was the bastion of europe so the austrians always

00:17:31.480 in a border region had to defend their identity against turk situations against the hungarians

00:17:37.080 before they became christianized and then part of the european civilization and also as part of a

00:17:42.840 border area of the whole uh german empire and the german area uh this was always an area of a lot of

00:17:49.800 war warfare and having to defend your own identity and that's also what makes the austrians a very

00:17:55.560 patriotic very stubborn people we also mountain people we have all the mountains in the area

00:18:00.440 eructa iraq people so that's that what makes an austrian and um i hope you're satisfied with this

00:18:07.480 definition yes i uh i i i often get asked by people uh you know if they're going to europe

00:18:13.880 on vacation or something they say derek what's the best part of germany i always say austria

00:18:18.760 um you know well yeah i know that's a loaded answer but uh you know it's it's got the culture

00:18:24.440 and whatnot uh a shared culture but it's it's actually more stronger more pronounced to there

00:18:29.720 um true true it's a bit like getting very uh but uh but i would say also like um uh yeah um i think

00:18:37.160 austria has the best from both sides but you know when it comes to canada i understand your identity

00:18:41.560 is way more complex but still also the austrian identity as it exists today for example also

00:18:46.840 austria as this nation state is something very new and changing a bit and shaping the identities for

00:18:52.360 example after the second world war the majority of austrians did not identify with austrian at all

00:18:57.720 like they said okay we're all germans but this is changing steadily in austria

00:19:01.720 so there is something that you can call an ethnogenesis the dutch people were part of

00:19:06.120 the german empire swiss german swiss same but the dutch people they would now say okay we're dutch

00:19:11.960 so what's happening or what's going on in canada i think it's an ongoing process it's an ongoing

00:19:18.040 process of forming a very distinct identity but obviously basing suddenly identity only on ideas

00:19:24.440 on abstract values will not lead to real nation and a real identity but basically just you know

00:19:30.680 a zone an economic zone where different uh a conglomerate of different ethnicities lives

00:19:37.080 for a while you know basically like liminal space or like an airport lobby so i think it's up to us

00:19:42.840 canadians and as european canadians of the descendants who founded this nation to define

00:19:48.040 what it means to be canadian it's harder but it's also cool because um so uh you can be very creative

00:19:54.920 in this process as well well austria is a particularly interesting case uh i i'd be

00:20:01.480 interested in your take on it because i see it um you know you mentioned you know the dutch uh

00:20:07.400 they were always maybe a bit more different they spoke of a very different dialect you know the

00:20:10.920 know, the Austrians obviously have a different dialect than, you know, high German and, you know,

00:20:14.040 Berlin, etc. But, you know, I see them as a part of a ethnic German identity, but with a civic

00:20:21.020 national identity as well. Civic identity as Austrians, but still national in the sense of

00:20:27.740 the German world. So similar-ish, but maybe not as much as, say, the Swiss, you know, or the

00:20:34.280 Swiss-speaking Germans. You know, so you can have overlapping identities, you know, in Alberta,

00:20:38.760 if there is such a thing

00:20:41.160 as an ethnic Canadian identity

00:20:43.000 if such a thing is there

00:20:44.520 it's a debatable point

00:20:45.900 then Albertans would share it

00:20:47.640 we share an Anglo-Canadian ethnic identity

00:20:51.180 but some of us

00:20:53.960 have a separate civic identity as Albertans

00:20:57.000 that we're a distinct polity

00:20:59.260 and we have some differences

00:21:02.180 but we don't consider ourselves

00:21:03.340 a different ethnicity

00:21:04.200 than the rest of Canada

00:21:05.200 we're a part of a broader

00:21:06.380 pan-Anglo-Canadian culture

00:21:08.860 but we still have a different civic identity i i don't know how much maybe that fits in with

00:21:13.340 the parallel with austria too um it it might fit in a bit but austria also has a different history

00:21:21.660 in a way you know like uh also the austrian empire uh was in this in this uh duel in this

00:21:30.620 conflict with prussia and had had their own policy obviously back then austria was not part of a

00:21:35.660 people it was the noble house the aristocracy of the house of austria but i would say yes

00:21:42.220 there definitely similarities but obviously at the moment i'm i'm quite quite happy that we are

00:21:48.140 not part of the uh the german nation which is run by i would say a left-wing suicide pact

00:21:55.900 and in austria the freedom party for example is polling at around 30 39 and there's a high chance

00:22:03.820 that we are able to really make re-migration a reality in austria within the next years so i

00:22:09.820 think at the moment especially when the zeitgeist is so anti-european anti-white anti-national

00:22:15.340 anti-national then it's maybe even better to have smaller entities and smaller communities

00:22:20.140 which is easier to uh get political sway and to maybe even flip the whole thing

00:22:26.140 that sounds like another parallel with a lot of what's happening in alberta right now

00:22:29.420 uh at the risk of okay everyone just stay with me for a second this is going to be kind of a niche

00:22:36.060 ish thing to talk about but i i i think it's instructive of kind of the one of the problems

00:22:41.500 facing re-migration identitarianism nationalism etc i want to talk about the recent state election

00:22:48.140 in baden-vertenburg so for those who don't know let's put it up on the map baden-vertenburg is

00:22:53.100 It is a state in southwest Germany.

00:22:55.400 It's just west of Bavaria.

00:22:59.100 They just had a state election there.

00:23:01.640 And the Green Party came out just ahead.

00:23:04.740 Let's also, yeah, let's put the election results up as well.

00:23:07.020 The Green Party came one, maybe two points ahead of the CDU.

00:23:11.900 The CDU is the nominally conservative, so-called conservative party in Germany.

00:23:15.440 um and the afd the more nationalistic identitarian party came in a strong third but you know not in

00:23:25.140 contention to be the first place party but came in a strong third um all the other parties either

00:23:29.660 were shut out of the local parliament or are extremely small and so the cdu was in a position

00:23:35.460 where it could decide how the government was going to be formed here it could play the junior

00:23:41.140 coalition partner and support putting the greens led by a turkish guy in power or it could be in

00:23:48.660 power itself as the senior coalition partner but they would have to allow the afd to be the junior

00:23:55.300 coalition partner they chose as conservatives to be a junior coalition partner under a turkish

00:24:03.700 Green Party guy, than to be the government themselves as the senior guys, but allow the AFD

00:24:10.520 in. So for a Canadian, for a Canadian, there's no exact parallel to a Canadian audience, but

00:24:17.060 bear with me with the analogy. This would be like Pierre Polyev deciding that he will be Deputy

00:24:22.500 Prime Minister under Elizabeth May, rather than be Prime Minister himself, but allow Maxime Bernier

00:24:28.800 to be a part of the cabinet that is the madness that is taking place right now um

00:24:35.680 i i know that there's a there's firewall braumeier all that stuff could could you just explain for

00:24:42.900 a canadian audience why the hell a conservative would rather be second place partner under turkish

00:24:50.220 greens than lead the government themselves with the assistance of people who are uh as conservative

00:24:57.000 as their own party was probably 15 years ago because the greens are secretly ruling germany

00:25:04.760 you know the green party uh in baden-württemberg they're very strong but on a national level they're

00:25:09.320 not that strong at the moment in germany so they're polling from the latest poll at 12

00:25:14.840 but if you look in media in elections of journalists if you look at elections and

00:25:19.960 pollings in universities the green party has an absolute majority there everywhere and with this

00:25:25.800 majority and with their media power they've created a firewall which means the afd is untouchable

00:25:31.880 the afd um is has a very severe and very viral illness and you mustn't have to do anything with

00:25:38.120 them and the cdu is so afraid of the green party and so afraid of the media apparatus

00:25:43.480 and also of the antifa that they basically say okay we don't want to have power we are

00:25:50.280 we are complying so the cdu is completely cucked they're politically castrated in austria and

00:25:55.160 germany uh the christian conservatives and they're the slaves of the left they're living in the

00:25:59.800 basement of the left and they always when they have a high result have to form coalition with

00:26:05.000 the left and then um find some middle ground some compromise and that's why obviously all of the

00:26:10.520 promises are always broken just to make it a bit more um more palatable for the people

00:26:16.680 once there was a case in the german parliament where the cdu wanted to pass a motion and divorce

00:26:23.320 a majority that they could have with the afd and some other deputies it was a time when the

00:26:29.720 coalition was broken and it was a free play of forces and then just for thinking about it like

00:26:35.880 the cdu was attacked by antifa anti for attacking cdu politicians say okay you're fair game we are

00:26:42.360 treating you like the nazis now and then the cdu completely backed down and didn't bring in any

00:26:46.440 motion uh just for fear that this motion would be passed through with the votes of the afd

00:26:53.960 politicians so even the votes of the afd politicians are toxic it's a very crazy i

00:26:58.680 would say semi-religious behavior and um yeah this is what's going on in germany and unfortunately

00:27:04.600 another thing i don't know how it is about canada in germany it's harder cycle by cycle to win for

00:27:10.760 patriots because of the ethnic vote so migrants are forming a bigger and bigger part of the electorate

00:27:16.440 non-assimilated migrants, and they're obviously

00:27:18.680 voting for left-wing parties.

00:27:22.460 There's

00:27:22.900 significant evidence of it here, although

00:27:24.680 the pollsters don't

00:27:26.700 really tend to break it down,

00:27:29.280 that kind of background, as much.

00:27:30.640 But I think we commission polls

00:27:32.540 from time to time, and I actually haven't asked

00:27:34.560 them to put that in as one of the cross-tab

00:27:36.480 data points, and I'm just going to start putting that

00:27:38.600 in, because I think that's an increasingly defining

00:27:40.780 characteristic of our

00:27:42.220 politics across the West.

00:27:43.560 um i want to come kind of come back to where we were asked i asked what is an austrian

00:27:49.360 the follow-up question to that and this is going to be a spicy one but i'm sure you've gotten it

00:27:55.320 before is can a non-european become an austrian can an african can an arab become an austrian

00:28:06.500 can they be austrian again i make the separation between the civic nationality and uh like the

00:28:14.020 ethno-cultural identity yes civically obviously you can get a passport unfortunately it's super

00:28:19.020 easy in austria it's very easy to get the austrian passport but when it comes to the to this um

00:28:25.940 identity that i mentioned before there also have to be a differentiation so yes you can assimilate

00:28:32.200 into the austrian culture and i think there are some migrants who've done this way better than

00:28:36.920 austrian so they know more about austrian music history and they're also more well mannered but

00:28:42.120 obviously you cannot be trans austrian so when it comes to the lineage you cannot fake a lineage and

00:28:47.320 you cannot assimilate yourself into an ethnicity that just doesn't work i know it's harsh to say

00:28:53.960 that but it's just the reality and they have to be very true truth is the ultimate goal and the

00:29:00.360 ultimate value and uh just as you as a man cannot become a woman obviously i cannot become an

00:29:06.280 african or chinese ethnical ethnically if i really would wanted to does this make this person not a

00:29:12.280 real austrian so that's that's a big debate it's basically an ontological debate my stance is yes

00:29:17.720 some people who have a different descent can assimilate into the broader poly body politic

00:29:23.880 and the people and can become part of this nation obviously it's a long-term process that in the

00:29:30.200 end also takes several generations but this has been exception and it cannot be in masses because

00:29:36.600 otherwise the very identity that people would want to assimilate into would be destroyed by that

00:29:42.520 and my argument for this is always if i would go to japan if i would become part of the japanese

00:29:48.360 culture i'll learn the language i'll learn kendo and and judo yeah and uh become immersed in

00:29:56.120 japanese culture and maybe also married japanese and then at some point japanese would accept me

00:30:00.600 still i wouldn't claim that i'm ethnically japanese and would understand that people

00:30:04.440 see me a bit differently and if there was a mass immigration from austrians to japan then i would

00:30:11.800 also say no i don't want chippin japan to become austria i wanna want japan to stay a homogenous

00:30:18.360 japanese nation so i've i'm against a total radical one or the other way i think there's always

00:30:24.600 um some form of assimilation this has always been also the reality we have been true to reality here

00:30:31.000 but it has to be measured it's also the question how many how fast from which culture and there is

00:30:36.440 a limit for this capacity and obviously the capacity of chappen chappen to take in chinese

00:30:43.240 people or koreans even though maybe japanese would have a different opinion here is higher

00:30:49.400 than taking in african people or norwegian people and vice versa the capacity for austrians to take

00:30:55.240 in croatians or italians or french people and simulate them is higher than to take in um

00:31:02.920 southeast agents or africans so that's how i see it but obviously i get it it's a very um yeah

00:31:10.120 very spicy debate it has to be debated until you always i think have to make a difference between

00:31:16.200 the legal question the ethnic and cultural question but also the philosophical level

00:31:20.520 and the political reality so i want to tease that a bit more um you know an austrian cannot become

00:31:27.960 an ethnic japanese like that's not possible and a japanese person cannot become ethnically

00:31:34.600 austrian even they might well integrate and be successful there but you can't just change ones

00:31:40.120 like they can't but yeah a german could become an austrian an austria could become a german

00:31:45.800 because those are extraordinarily close so maybe that's a bad example um because there's a sense

00:31:50.600 of shared nationhood even if they're different states and civic identities but even here even

00:31:55.240 here i would have to have to say if like many many prussians would come to a small austrian town you

00:32:01.160 know then if it's too many then they would break the culture like all the traditions or everything

00:32:07.480 would break down there so even this would be obviously wouldn't be a big issue um but still

00:32:12.840 if it would go on and can't uh city by city the regional culture would die and vice versa because

00:32:18.680 people are quite different also within a nation and we also want to maintain those differences

00:32:23.400 my family on until uh until they passed away we we still had prussian austrian fights over what

00:32:28.280 kind of dinner we eat at christmas so uh i i hope i can uniquely understand i hope the austrians won

00:32:34.280 every christmas yeah we eat that's love with rouladen not potatoes oppressions are very good

00:32:39.960 in many things but cooking is not one of those the austrians the austrians one of my family for sure

00:32:46.200 um okay so yeah japanese can't become austrian austrian can't become japanese but what about

00:32:53.560 something that is more adjacent that is clearly a different national ethnic identity um but you

00:33:02.200 know it's closer that but it's within the same maybe civilizational umbrella do you think can

00:33:07.160 a polish person become an ethnic austrian can uh can a croatian person become an ethnic austrian

00:33:14.280 because these are obviously close especially it's a croatian because they shared you know the austro

00:33:18.440 hungarian empire the habsburg empire before uh they're obviously close and adjacent but they're

00:33:24.280 different can they become a genuine ethnic austrian to you you see uh here the question is what you

00:33:31.400 mean by ethnicity and it's actually like a philosophical question basically comes down to

00:33:36.280 how do people react to you an example let's say a polish person as a child is being adopted by

00:33:44.440 an eastern german family he will have a totally um unproblematic german identity

00:33:50.760 why because culturally he's raised assimilated as a german and also from his phenotype the looks

00:33:56.040 he appears completely normal german he sees himself as a german and he um is perceived as

00:34:01.880 a german but obviously if you look differently people will not perceive you as an ethnical german

00:34:07.560 this will also change your own identity about yourself and will force you in a way to have a

00:34:13.800 more complex understanding of your own history and if this polish person although like from his dna

00:34:19.240 and his looks he he's completely like the majority of eastern german people let's take this for the

00:34:24.600 sake of the argument uh he sees poland as any other um slavic nation poland czech republic no

00:34:31.080 difference but if suddenly his parents tell him you know what you were adopted from a polish family

00:34:37.080 uh from a polish city from krakow then suddenly for him his identity will shift and change you

00:34:43.560 know and he will say okay well interesting maybe i'll try travel there once whenever like there's

00:34:47.800 a a soccer game between germany and poland he will see differently then so these things um are

00:34:53.400 real if you make them real and if you think about them yes in a way but of course if you have a

00:34:59.960 different ethnicity people re will react differently to you and it doesn't mean they're

00:35:04.120 racist or discriminatory again if i wanted to go to japan and then similar in japan still people

00:35:10.840 will ask me ah do you speak japanese and where do you really come from and i wouldn't see this

00:35:15.720 racist because it's just a normal a very normal reaction so let's say yes they can assimilate

00:35:21.080 easier but still like the lineage is just a reality that just exists it's not it's not evil

00:35:28.280 or good it's just there and um you cannot really change it but in many cases like this example

00:35:34.360 it doesn't really matter if you don't make it an issue or don't even know about it

00:35:39.640 okay uh so meta politics most people have probably never heard the term

00:35:46.200 might i ask you also about your opinion how you see it or is this like um

00:35:50.280 yeah i i know you you're the interview i'm the interviewed but i think it would be maybe interesting

00:35:54.120 how you see this issue.

00:35:56.640 You want to flip the script on me.

00:35:59.400 I'm asking you all these hard and spicy questions

00:36:01.520 because it's easier for me to ask the questions.

00:36:02.920 You can ask me anything I want.

00:36:04.700 It's of your interest how you see it.

00:36:07.420 Yeah, I mean, look,

00:36:08.900 North Americans are different.

00:36:12.700 Our people settled the land.

00:36:14.280 I've got ancestors who were very early settlers

00:36:17.040 who are as Canadian as you could possibly be.

00:36:21.960 But I've also obviously got much more

00:36:24.120 recent ancestors who came from places that used to be a part of Germany and used to be parts of

00:36:30.060 Austria. But I mean, those places where my ancestors are from are no longer parts of Germany,

00:36:36.360 no longer parts of Austria. And that doesn't make me Czech. That does not make me Polish,

00:36:41.180 even though those are now a part of the geography of where they're from. I have no identity whatever

00:36:46.340 with those places. So when people talk about your identity is just, it's the geographical

00:36:53.380 location you you live in this place and therefore you know uh you know Justin Trudeau used to say

00:36:59.400 a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian you know you got the papers you are therefore Canadian

00:37:02.720 I thought well okay um so that's just you're talking about us just being a

00:37:08.440 an economic zone again it's it's purely geographical you live there therefore you are I'm

00:37:13.080 like well that would make me Polish uh that would make me Czech but I don't have a as far as we can

00:37:18.140 tell you know i've done ancestry.com i've got no check i've got no polish um so i i have no

00:37:24.880 identity whatever but those places even though i've got you know i'm geographically from there

00:37:29.060 so um i i agree uh but you know north american society i think has always been by necessity

00:37:35.920 more assimilating uh than than the european nation states uh you know we were you know

00:37:42.080 original english and french settlers combined with uh you know the indigenous people who were

00:37:46.820 here before um and so even the french and the english had to find some commonality and there'd

00:37:53.500 be intermarriage between them um more so than you would say between english and french people in

00:37:58.260 europe because they had they were in separate polities different kingdoms um you know and then

00:38:04.600 we you know we integrated irish and scottish and then eventually western canada sub settled largely

00:38:09.940 there was americans who came up with their own identities germans ukrainians um and then eventually

00:38:16.400 you know, we had Chinese people come building the railroad. So we've always been a bit more

00:38:21.120 fluid. But it was never until very recently wasn't a big issue, especially in English Canada,

00:38:26.420 because there was still an Anglo identity. You know, you might immigrate from Germany, and

00:38:32.520 we'd still eat a lot of German foods, but we'd also adopt the local foods, we would learn to

00:38:37.420 speak English, and we would intermarry with English families. And we would take on an Anglo

00:38:44.640 canadian identity and there was uh what was the term you used um genomorphosis uh

00:38:53.040 ethnogenesis and and and and so it was fine um but you know other communities uh that came

00:39:00.320 from you know other civilizations and other more different ethnic backgrounds they would integrate

00:39:06.720 successfully but not as much um like we have a chinatown in calgary we don't have a german town

00:39:12.720 we don't have a ukrainian town um i'm a member of the austrian club because it's one of the few

00:39:17.280 good places i i can get um uh you know i you know i i can i can find the food but you know there's

00:39:24.320 there's no area that's like this is the german area of town and it's clearly identified as such

00:39:29.600 and the architecture of all the buildings here is this that just didn't happen they they assimilated

00:39:34.480 to anglo-canadian culture um most chinese people have actually assimilated pretty well here but

00:39:39.520 there it is still more distinct you have a chinatown the architecture is different the food is

00:39:44.720 different and so it it's not a hundred percent um it's more difficult question to answer here

00:39:52.400 i would also make a difference between integration and assimilation here you know for me like

00:39:56.160 integration is basically when you work well within the function society and you can also integrate

00:40:03.040 um it's a it's a functional structural thing as an ethnic enclave as chinatown for example but you

00:40:10.560 can also integrate for example as a radical muslim so a lot of muslim terrorists were very

00:40:14.560 well integrated they were studying and like they looked completely normal they paid the taxes and

00:40:18.880 the bills so and for me assimilation is when you completely identify with the ethno-cultural

00:40:24.960 community of um the nation the community you want to be a part of but what you said is very true

00:40:32.240 there's a saying when a cat becomes kitten gets kitten in a stable there are still cats and horses

00:40:38.480 so obviously this theory of total milieu theory which is a staple of the left is wrong in any

00:40:45.520 case it's wrong when it's about gender but it's also wrong when it's about ethnicity and both

00:40:50.240 are taboos of this trans ideology that basically wants human beings to become eight atoms and to

00:40:56.080 become completely interchangeable like resources you can uh push around the globe um sex change

00:41:03.280 operations and changing your nationality all the time you can become whatever you want and this

00:41:07.920 is obviously part of this ideology of modernity i would say this trans ideology of transgression

00:41:13.440 transsexual trans ethnic and so on and um i think as conservatives our thought has to be rooted in

00:41:19.520 reality and we just need to create a serious scientific but also measured debate about a

00:41:25.200 the subject. It doesn't go in any radical or extreme direction, just looks at the facts and

00:41:30.020 then thinks, okay, what do we learn from these facts and how do the influence and how to the

00:41:35.460 effect our politics? I strongly would expect you'll agree with the critique I'm about to make,

00:41:41.780 but I'd be interested to know why you think it is that the multiculturalist, I would say left,

00:41:50.100 but it's not just the left. I mean, you could look at the CDU in Germany. Actually, frankly,

00:41:54.520 even, you know, the conservatives in Canada are officially pro-multiculturalism. There's

00:42:00.680 factions within the party that are, you know, less so. But I would just say, so maybe the left

00:42:07.180 is the wrong term for it. But multiculturalist ideology, broadly speaking, you know, believes

00:42:15.300 that, you know, they don't seem to think that, you know, Europeans, and this is an easier debate

00:42:21.980 to define in the European context and say North America, as I discussed, but in the European

00:42:27.600 context, they seem to believe that Europeans aren't allowed to have their own distinct

00:42:32.440 countries, their own distinct nations. But every other country and every other civilization on the

00:42:38.300 planet can. Nigerians are allowed to have Nigeria for Nigerians. And to say otherwise is colonialism.

00:42:45.820 And that's actually probably fair, that when Europeans try to essentially come in in large

00:42:51.180 numbers and potentially even dominate India, that's colonialism. And that's probably a fair

00:42:56.920 critique. What if it's the opposite? That, you know, France should be predominantly, not maybe

00:43:05.900 exclusively, but at least predominantly the preserve for Frenchmen, that Poland should be

00:43:11.340 predominantly the preserve for the Polish. That is seen as racist, exclusionary, hyper-nationalist,

00:43:18.920 overall just bad negative thing. But if you, you know, if we said that, well, we shouldn't have a

00:43:25.000 bunch of Poles moving to, or we shouldn't have a bunch of Frenchmen in Algeria, that's perfectly

00:43:30.480 reasonable and could be violently resisted as it was in the 1950s and 60s. That could be violently

00:43:36.500 resisted. And that is a good thing. But if you just believe in, you know, that French should

00:43:42.100 maybe not have a ton of Algerians, that's racist. What do you think is the reasoning behind it?

00:43:48.720 what is the philosophical grounding of it that what's good for the goose is not good for the

00:43:52.860 gander now we're going to very deep into the roots of the great replacement of replacement

00:43:58.460 migration and i would really say it's this ideology this universalism of self-hatred and of

00:44:05.500 white and european guilt and you brought up the algerian french example i always bring up in a

00:44:12.500 talk to left wing people the white flight from south africa there's a huge re-migration going on

00:44:18.680 after hundreds and hundreds of years the boers the people living there even longer than the in

00:44:25.000 some of the invading black tribes then are leaving africa there's an immigration rate from whites from

00:44:30.360 south africa do you like this or not answer for most laughingers yeah that's great because the

00:44:35.960 colonial allies finally leave the country they have nothing to do in to do with uh from the first

00:44:42.120 place so okay and why is it then racist if i demand remigration for europe for people who

00:44:48.360 who just came here a few years ago who are very often illegal who contribute nothing to society

00:44:53.240 who two gang rapes a day in germany cause tremendous horrors here not all of them but

00:44:58.680 like a very large number it's completely incongruent and it's just anti-european and

00:45:05.480 anti-white that's basically the suckers that's basically the core of it and it would be as if

00:45:12.520 when you bring up the colonial example when the english colonized india we would say it would

00:45:18.440 it's racist if the indians resist the british if the indians defend their nation against the british

00:45:24.600 get an act of indian racism yeah an anti-white indian racism that's how it is now we are being

00:45:30.520 called racist just for defending our own country in our own territory and i think this is basically um

00:45:36.760 yeah a remnant of a secularized version of christianity it's an abuse of our history

00:45:44.600 you obviously have in germany the second world war but for you have the colonization in the uk

00:45:49.880 also the colonizations of everywhere you find a mcguffin that is basically the core of this

00:45:54.840 huge ideology of guilt and guilt is something you can use to rule it's a very powerful tool

00:46:01.080 to rule people and i would say in the end this destruction of european ethnic identity

00:46:07.480 and national identity makes europeans easier to govern divided emperor divide and conquer

00:46:13.560 it makes it easier also for international corporations to sell their products if you

00:46:18.280 destroy nation states and you have only a huge amount of consumers who cannot organize themselves

00:46:24.120 anymore if post-national gang language is totally chaotic then it's easier to rule that it's easier

00:46:29.560 to sell there and it's easier to make money it's a free flow of information of capital of people

00:46:35.080 all around the globe and the nation states are hindrance to this idea of a new feudalistic

00:46:42.040 global order but obviously we're going to put into conspiracy theory there i have a proof of

00:46:47.560 that i have no distinct group of people but if i would need to make up a theory why some rulers

00:46:53.640 why some politicians are pushing for that,

00:46:57.160 this would be my theory.

00:46:59.240 You used, at the top of your answer,

00:47:02.280 you used the term great replacement.

00:47:05.400 I'm going to have to dig into that

00:47:06.680 because this part right here is going to get clipped

00:47:09.660 into something from the Canadian Anti-Hate Network

00:47:12.320 and the whole constellation of far-left organizations

00:47:17.800 that think this conversation should not be allowed to take place,

00:47:22.180 that no one should be allowed to watch this, listen to this.

00:47:25.720 Great replacement.

00:47:28.160 When it's used on the left,

00:47:30.300 they normally add the word theory at the end.

00:47:34.860 I mean, I guess it's the way you can say

00:47:36.120 conspiracy theory to instantly discredit something.

00:47:40.380 There's obviously uncredible conspiracy theories.

00:47:42.980 But in 2026, the conspiracy theorists

00:47:45.280 are batting pretty good.

00:47:48.380 They're kind of having their year.

00:47:50.120 i've had to apologize to a few people i was like maybe you're not as crazy as i thought um but

00:47:56.360 you know they had the word theory to the end that this is a uh this is a racist theory it's made up

00:48:01.740 it's not real um so i maybe if you want to elaborate on that what do you mean by great

00:48:08.120 replacement is it a theory um you know is this uh you know what do you mean by that

00:48:17.980 first of all about conspiracy theories i think we need new conspiracy theories because all the

00:48:24.700 odd ones ran out because they all became true so the sheets are the only ones holding out at this

00:48:30.060 point yeah but um when it comes to the great replacement it's not a theory it's a reality

00:48:35.740 it's not a conspiracy theory it's a government praxis it's a descriptive reality and it's just

00:48:42.940 the product of birth rates of natives going down and replacement migration migration to replace

00:48:51.980 these people fading away and since the 1970s in most european nations we had no positive birth

00:48:57.500 rates and so since then the whole population growth can be contributed to replacement migration

00:49:04.380 or replacement births so it's very descriptive and what they do in a very clever rhetoric trick

00:49:11.980 they take certain theories about why the great replacement is happening then they disprove those

00:49:19.420 theories and then then they say the whole thing isn't happening at all and this is as if you would

00:49:25.180 look at the burning of rome you know we know there was a huge fire in rome the city burned for one

00:49:32.220 week this is the fact the prescriptive fact and now there are many theories some people said nero

00:49:38.380 himself burned rome down others say the christians did it others say it was just you know an accident

00:49:43.900 but if you disprove one of these theories the fire still happened same with jfk there are many

00:49:49.660 theories about who and why uh killed uh jfk but if you disprove one of them jfk still was killed

00:49:57.180 and it's the same with great replacement doesn't matter which theory is true and who is really

00:50:01.820 responsible it is happening it's a description and the prescription is remigration so i don't really

00:50:08.140 care who's behind it. I think this is a debate you can talk about. It's very interesting. Way

00:50:13.420 more important is the question, what can you do about it? And obviously, this attempt of the left

00:50:17.760 to claim it's a conspiracy theory, straw man, it refuted and then claim it doesn't happen at all

00:50:23.620 is very cheap and very easy to refute. You know, I should say they still use the word theory at

00:50:31.480 the end, but they don't actually seem to deny it actually takes place now. They used to deny it's

00:50:35.940 taking place now they kind of say it's taking place and it's a good thing here's why you should

00:50:40.740 support it uh so they've kind of moved on they're actually no really they kind of say theory at the

00:50:45.380 end just because i i guess they're used to saying it and it maybe kind of helps to discredit it

00:50:49.420 but they don't really deny it now it's just yes it's happening but here's why you should like it

00:50:55.940 um so i i guess there is no denying of course we have replacement migration i mean it's just math

00:51:03.680 It's undeniable. We're very deep into it. It's not a new thing at this point.

00:51:08.800 I guess the question would be, is it intentional or not? Is this just the way it's happening?

00:51:20.000 Why? Why do you think it's happening?

00:51:23.380 I think it's partly intentional. I would say there are three important groups who form this

00:51:30.720 lobby of the great replacement first there are certain economic interests for example in austria

00:51:36.320 there's a huge asylum lobby people make a lot of money lawyers social workers a question for you

00:51:43.760 see if you if you are good at guessing guess how much money how much euros that it does it cost

00:51:50.640 per month for one refugee underage and unaccompanied so he has no family he's underage

00:51:58.880 and he lives in vienna and how much does it cost one month to accommodate him

00:52:08.080 all right well i i want to get on to uh something you mentioned kind of at the top i promise we get

00:52:12.240 back to it uh uh metapolitics this is uh i don't think sorry there's a question oh sorry i i didn't

00:52:22.080 catch it as a question do you want to rephrase yes like how much do you think there's a minor

00:52:26.400 a minor refugee cost per month in austria and vienna well just cut out this little part where

00:52:32.160 i missed it yeah um i i don't know but i i would imagine for the most part it'd be similar to

00:52:38.640 canada and most european countries where the the net contribution of money in versus money out is

00:52:45.680 obviously in the negative 18 000 euros one yes minor migrant in in vienna it's the highest rate

00:52:53.360 costs 18 000 euros a month and this money goes into the asylum industry so those people profit

00:52:58.000 economically 18 000 euros a month 18 000 euros 18 000 i can show you the the newspaper article you

00:53:04.880 can put it on the screen yeah send it to us we'll throw it up i'm uh i'm not saying you're wrong but

00:53:10.720 i mean that's higher than i would expect i expected it to be crazy i don't know how many

00:53:15.520 there are but like how long does an austrian has to work to produce this before taxes you know it's

00:53:21.440 crazy and um so then the second group political parties they profit from mass migration because

00:53:28.000 they just import the voters naturalize them and then they give them our money and then they get

00:53:31.760 voted by them and then i would say the third group an ideological group who hates the nation hates

00:53:37.600 christianity hates white people hates european people like the self-hatred especially universities

00:53:42.880 and they just like it they like it they love it they love the great replacement and they are like

00:53:48.400 a very small but a very loud group especially universities and media you notice this um self

00:53:54.080 hatred like an ideology and i think these three groups combined they create this very strong very

00:54:00.400 rich very powerful lobby in economy politics and media yeah i know we certainly have that in in

00:54:08.640 canada you uh you know there were uh you know we've always had a fairly perm permissive liberal

00:54:17.200 immigration policy. But in

00:54:19.240 the later years of Justin Trudeau, they

00:54:20.940 did away with all controls. They just

00:54:23.180 allowed anyone in. They largely did under

00:54:25.100 the guise of student visas,

00:54:27.220 which is too bad because we would have legitimate good

00:54:29.140 students coming in, but we also then had

00:54:31.300 a ton of bad

00:54:33.320 ones. We had these kind of diploma meals that were fake schools.

00:54:35.620 They wouldn't actually really go to the school

00:54:37.340 and

00:54:38.240 companies

00:54:41.160 wanted this also for bringing in, just

00:54:43.100 importing cheap labor. And so this

00:54:45.000 undercut

00:54:47.200 you know, kind of lower class, unskilled workers, you know, why would you hire a entitled

00:54:54.260 Canadian who maybe, maybe he won't work as hard, you know, because we grew up in a rich and

00:55:00.520 plentiful, peaceful country. Hire the harder working guy from over here. Sometimes they will

00:55:07.200 work harder. And it brought in all this cheap labor. So it very much, it's often business

00:55:13.480 interests what i couldn't what i have a harder time understanding is that the official labor

00:55:18.200 unions not labor not union members union members are actually kind of voting very much on the right

00:55:22.920 in canada now and increasingly so in the united states as well a kind of blue collar not the

00:55:28.520 government unions which is actually most unions in canada now they're public sector but private

00:55:32.640 sector unions the workers tend to be on the right and they understand there's a huge mass migration

00:55:38.780 problem. But the leadership of all the big unions in Canada, they are against cracking down on mass

00:55:44.700 migration. And that doesn't make sense to me because it would seem to be very directly in

00:55:49.300 the interests of the workers. I'm kind of making like the Danish Social Democrat argument here

00:55:54.340 that I very much agree with, that you're undercutting your workers here. It's supply and

00:56:01.460 demand. If you have demand for workers, but you massively inflate the supply, but the demand stays

00:56:07.440 the same well the price goes down it's just the simplest law of economics and so that so why would

00:56:14.880 like i i have yet to figure out why it's here i'm gonna guess it might be the same in in europe that

00:56:19.600 these these labor organizations are for open borders even though it's completely cooking the

00:56:25.120 supply and demand of having a strong working class true it's uh it's very peculiar i would say it's

00:56:32.560 the treason of the working class by the marxists and this is because the marxists the socialist

00:56:38.880 revolutionaries you know they were disappointed by the native working class because they wouldn't

00:56:44.320 do a communist revolution with them and during the cold war that didn't happen you had all the

00:56:49.920 student movements the sds in america the student revolts in france and these were all entitled

00:56:55.840 marxist students who read marcus adorno and all these you know marcus adorn and all these thinkers

00:57:02.320 and they were angry that their own working classes didn't revolve with them and then basically i

00:57:07.760 think they were looking for new revolutionary subject in the working class because all of

00:57:13.680 these trade union organizers all these bosses and all this uh um intelligentsia of course they are

00:57:20.800 not workers themselves and they've betrayed their own workers because with them they cannot make a

00:57:25.520 revolutionary socialist movement and they think with importing arabs and importing migrants they

00:57:31.600 have another attempt and another shot for their revolutionary marxist dreams but that's just my

00:57:38.000 personal theory maybe also just mad i don't know well they might be half right that they're perhaps

00:57:43.280 importing revolutionaries but it might not be a marxist revolution it might be more along the lines

00:57:47.520 of the iranian revolution that you're gonna get uh most of these guys need to be steeped heavily

00:57:52.640 in marx more than they're steeped in the writings of an ayatollah uh okay uh so i'm gonna go back

00:57:59.040 to something you mentioned right near the top of our discussion and that was metapolitics i don't

00:58:04.080 think most people have even heard the term you use it uh if i did a word search in your i read

00:58:10.480 your book regime change from the right um here well let's put an image of the book oh there you

00:58:15.040 go you've got it right there uh you can order it on amazon i'm actually shocked you can order that

00:58:19.840 on amazon still i'm embarrassed i'm embarrassed that it's still on amazon yeah yeah like when i

00:58:25.520 don't get canceled from something i'm like what am i doing wrong like yeah uh anyway you can you

00:58:31.040 can get it on amazon it's uh i think it's very fairly priced um but if i did a word search of it

00:58:37.360 i think metapolitics would come up as one of the the most frequently used words throughout it um

00:58:45.440 why don't you just kind of give a short what is metapolitics and and how does it apply to the

00:58:50.480 broader debate around western identity western civilization remigration what do you mean by it

00:58:57.120 and how does it apply if my fellow activists will see this clip they're going to laugh because i was

00:59:04.400 known for a while in vienna and austria as somebody who couldn't finish one sentence without

00:59:08.800 using the term metaphors i think it's a fair critique i've read the book i i think you'll

00:59:14.320 like the word a lot yeah yeah why because the concept is so important that's why the right

00:59:19.200 wing the conservatives always lose because they don't get it they don't get it they think the

00:59:23.360 parliament is the center of power no the parliament is a stage the center of power is somewhere else

00:59:28.400 it's in media it's in the discourse the words and um the thoughts so language and thinking are

00:59:36.320 intertwined if you control the words if you control the media if you control the culture

00:59:41.760 then you control the national debate and on the long run you control the elections and you can

00:59:47.040 change political parties even the animal political parties that's happened in europe so in europe

00:59:53.680 the left the left-wing culture the left thing media all the moves in the books they were pushing

01:00:00.000 this ideology and moving ever farther to the left and the conservatives followed them so the center

01:00:06.800 the real center in the overturned window of political opportunities was moving to the left

01:00:11.680 because the left are going leftwards and the right are following and then if you meet in the middle

01:00:16.160 the middle ground is always moving and that's why the left that's why the left wins because they

01:00:20.880 understand that power lies not in party politics it also doesn't just lie in numbers and facts and

01:00:26.400 studies it lies in emotions and strong images and you were talking about the anti-hate groups

01:00:32.640 in canada just look at this amazing meta-political success of the left they've

01:00:36.960 coined the term hate we also even use it hate speech so hate is something that is associated

01:00:42.720 with the right wing hate you know as a basic human emotion i think the left wing people hate

01:00:48.000 as much and maybe even more as we do but still they've made it a reality in our mind therefore

01:00:53.600 reality um in our political world you know this course is hate is now something con attributed to

01:01:00.320 the right and that's what i mean by metaphysics everything that's outside of party politics

01:01:05.920 is actually really stronger and influences party politics way more and that's why we need way more

01:01:11.440 alternative media way more right wing activists way more writing think tanks way more writing

01:01:16.080 counterculture music comics memes because that's where the actual power lays and that's uh also i

01:01:22.240 would say uh the the message of this book all right this conversation go a few ways from here

01:01:29.600 but i um i want to test your theories a bit with some real world examples um in britain for example

01:01:37.440 i'd say you know identitarians or nationalists they won the meta-political debate on brexit

01:01:45.280 largely fueled on the immigration issue that if we if we have brexit we take back national

01:01:50.160 sovereignty we'll get out of the eu's system of open borders and we could then stop mass migration

01:01:56.960 take take back some national sovereignty and control here uh they won the debate they won the

01:02:02.880 vote they won the brexit referendum and then they won subsequent elections with big conservative

01:02:08.720 majority governments to follow through on brexit and end mass migration as one of the probably the

01:02:15.600 single biggest motivating factor behind the brexit vote there you know there's quite a few

01:02:19.040 other things but that was the big one they won the votes they said they won the meta politics

01:02:24.080 they won people over you know they made the legacy media was still over and most big institutions

01:02:29.040 were still against Brexit.

01:02:31.020 They were still pro-mass migration.

01:02:32.860 But they won the people over.

01:02:34.380 They won the referendum.

01:02:35.700 And then they won with Boris Johnson.

01:02:37.380 And then they won with Theresa May.

01:02:40.820 They won like two or three majority governments afterwards.

01:02:44.540 But mass migration somehow got worse.

01:02:47.820 So they won the medical political debate.

01:02:49.540 They won the partisan political parliamentary debate.

01:02:54.960 But they still lost.

01:02:56.860 um that's just a british example but there's other examples as well in in germany the most

01:03:03.140 recent federal election a big majority of germans voted for the afd um in second place and uh and

01:03:11.100 the cdu in first combined a very big majority uh and you know friedrich merits ran on you know

01:03:18.460 shutting the borders ending mass migration they still got more mass migration so can i maybe can

01:03:25.580 Even where they're winning debates and they're winning the parliamentary elections, they're losing in the actual results at the end of the day.

01:03:33.520 Can I answer the English question first?

01:03:35.600 Because I think it's actually, in reality, a proof of the metapolitical theory.

01:03:40.480 Because you're completely right.

01:03:42.100 The motivation for Brexit was migration.

01:03:44.820 But if you look at the talking points of the discussion, people talked mostly not about migration, but about economics.

01:03:51.440 It was kind of a proxy issue.

01:03:53.280 Why?

01:03:53.800 because it was and it still is too spicy to talk about mass deportations which actually would have

01:04:00.120 been needed to stop um the the great replacement or a fortress uh britain like building a wall and

01:04:09.560 the rwanda plan all of this so they won the political power but they did not win the

01:04:14.760 meta-political power why because in the uk there are no big media no big alternative media not no

01:04:22.360 big street movements or big ngos and think tanks there's no counterly there's no power in academia

01:04:30.920 who is demanding mass deportations on who is demanding a complete closed border policy

01:04:37.400 this talking point still is not really in the british media and society and you see this right

01:04:42.920 now with the taboos the drupal low is breaking with restore britain so what i would say is if

01:04:49.400 conservatives and patriots get in power even if they want to do certain political things they

01:04:54.280 are unable to do them if those things are not completely normalized all the taboos have to be

01:05:00.120 broken and you see right now rupert law is starting to break these taboos right now years and years

01:05:05.880 after brexit with which which was a proxy vote uh nativist vote but in the debate didn't really

01:05:14.120 normalize the idea of mass deportations or completely shutting the border fence so i would

01:05:19.560 say the brexit was a prime example of conservatives winning political power without having a real

01:05:25.240 meta-political influence in media academia or on the national discourse

01:05:31.720 well but in the german example i mean it's it's a different set of circumstances you have the

01:05:35.960 so-called firewall where unofficially it's a rule you're not allowed to deal with the afd

01:05:41.080 But there, you know, a big majority of people voted for parties that would stop mass migration.

01:05:49.800 And mass migration was very much at the front.

01:05:52.700 Everyone, the AFD was saying it out loud.

01:05:55.100 Even Friedrich Mertz, I mean, I didn't believe it.

01:05:57.620 It's the CDU at this point.

01:05:59.280 I didn't believe it.

01:06:00.060 But he was saying, yeah, no, we're shutting the border.

01:06:02.380 Border controls are coming back.

01:06:04.080 We're ending mass deport, we're ending mass migration.

01:06:07.900 Syrians with Syria safe can go back to Syria.

01:06:11.080 But it didn't happen, even though a big majority of Germans voted for it. And it was explicit. It wasn't mixed with a bunch of economic stuff. It wasn't, you know, the National Health Service in Britain will save money and, you know, arguments, you know, around that kind of thing. It was explicit.

01:06:27.180 But there, I mean, it was less than 24 hours after the votes came in.

01:06:30.580 And he said, no, ending mass migrations off the table was less than 24 hours.

01:06:35.660 So there, I feel like the metapolitical debate was won to an extent.

01:06:39.940 I mean, it was not a resounding win, but a majority of people voted for parties that were explicit about this issue.

01:06:46.960 But then the actual the way that translated on the parliamentary level, they lost.

01:06:52.620 i wouldn't say that the medical debate in germany was one at all i wouldn't say that

01:06:58.140 in german media re-migration uh like um sending syrians home is normalized at all in the debate

01:07:04.620 and this is where i would measure metapolitical victory so i agree with you it was a political

01:07:09.020 victory for mats and for writing parties but why did people vote for mats devoted for mats because

01:07:14.540 still this idea of the nazification of the afd this demonization is still so strong in german

01:07:21.660 media therefore meta politics that the majority is not yet voting for the afd so a lot of people

01:07:28.060 in germany who are voting for the conservatives actually have the convictions of the afd but they

01:07:33.340 still have this then this ideological stranglehold of the left that i think voting for afd is

01:07:39.100 something evil is something negative and this is the meta-political force and dominance of the left

01:07:44.700 and matt is profiting from that because obviously he's not as attacked so it's not verboten to vote

01:07:49.980 for mats and he's using afd talking points because he knows what people actually want

01:07:54.300 but in the end he betrays them again and again so the meta-political power would be to de-demonize

01:08:00.540 the afd that the afd gets substantial majorities which make it impossible to govern without them

01:08:05.660 this would be the meta-political victory and for this you have to normalize re-migration you have

01:08:09.900 to break these taboos and you have to break the ideological dominance of the left so i would know

01:08:14.700 i would say that um these political victories aren't real like um results of a big

01:08:23.580 meta-political victory because still these ideas are not normalized and i'm a living example of

01:08:29.420 that i wrote a book about remigration and until recently i got banned from germany i got driven

01:08:34.620 out of german cities german police was crashing my book readings and this is not really a sign

01:08:41.020 that a talking point is normalized and mainstreamed in a certain society so i would say that we have

01:08:48.140 not yet reached at all this meta-political goal of having totally mainstreamed our ideas

01:08:53.980 and the question of the great replacement society if this would be the case then it would be debated

01:08:59.260 as global warming you know as a big important question that everybody has to find an answer for

01:09:05.020 every political party would have to bring up a re-migration policy because it's so normalized

01:09:10.220 and it's so standard that this uh re-migration is um an important question and then it will come

01:09:17.660 policy so i think we are metapolitically too weak and what you're actually seeing is populist

01:09:22.780 populist wins by populist parties writing populist even in the parliament like in italy maybe in

01:09:28.300 france or sometimes in austria but lacking the metapolitical the metapolitical power the think

01:09:34.780 tanks the academics the experts the alternative media the activists on the streets and therefore

01:09:40.060 their political power becomes futile because it's not backed by a real meta-political force

01:09:45.900 i want to challenge your theory on maybe this is the hardest challenge to your theory with the

01:09:50.300 united states there there is a very large populist right movement or national conservatives there is

01:09:57.340 a very very vibrant uh alternative media all the biggest media in america are actually all

01:10:03.180 alternatives and independence at this point, to various degrees.

01:10:10.760 Trump won, running very explicitly.

01:10:15.420 His first election was build the wall.

01:10:17.980 He even said he was going to ban Muslims from immigrating.

01:10:20.500 Like, stuff that was outside the Overton window.

01:10:23.920 He was running for president on stuff that was outside the Overton window.

01:10:29.340 He won the first time.

01:10:31.220 the second time obviously dispute but you know because ultimately don't return to office and then

01:10:36.380 he returned to office again uh he's gonna build the wall there's gonna be mass deportations they

01:10:42.420 win the presidency republicans win the house republicans win the senate um after a very

01:10:48.380 short experience with mass deportations they've essentially pulled the plug on it they're not

01:10:52.440 doing mass deportations anymore they they kind of hyped it up a lot on social media you know they'd

01:10:57.140 have these like kind of uh you know set the hype music they'd have these little edits going out

01:11:01.640 you know showing having ice going and you know arresting some some pedo or something and who

01:11:07.320 should be deported uh they were very public about it but you know there was some backlash you know

01:11:12.520 in minnesota and whatnot and they've just kind of pulled the plug on it they're still doing

01:11:16.840 deportations and they're doing it more aggressively than europe but the idea of mass deportations that

01:11:21.100 everyone who's illegal is gonna get out um now they're limiting you know trump has said well

01:11:25.980 you know, if they're working on farms or, you know, they're doing these kinds of things and

01:11:29.940 they haven't committed a violent crime in America, yeah, we're just, we're not going to really get

01:11:34.020 around to it. Uh, you know, there, I feel like kind of business interests have probably, I've

01:11:38.480 intervened, uh, to lobby and say, okay, you want to get rid of the guys committed, you know, you

01:11:43.080 want to get rid of gangbangers who are illegal migrants? Fine. But you know, the guys who are

01:11:47.500 just picking berries on a farm in, you know, in California, no, they get to stay, even if they're

01:11:54.000 illegal um there's no wall i mean there is there more they have cracked down on their southern

01:11:59.500 border but there is no wall he's had three terms now uh he's into his third term and there's no

01:12:05.300 wall it kind of gets negotiated away for other things um so there i feel like they very much

01:12:10.120 did win the meta-political debate that was what people wanted super majorities of americans say

01:12:15.360 they want it substantial parts of even democratic voters want it um they won total political power

01:12:22.060 They have the Supreme Court. They have the presidency. They've got the House and they've got the Senate. They had everything set for it. But it appears that that project, they're done with it. So am I wrong? I think they won the metapolitical debate and then they won the power political parliamentary debate. They won the votes and they still lost.

01:12:47.460 so first of all meta politics is not something you can win once like an election and then you

01:12:53.700 granted power for some years it's an ongoing battle you have to always project power what

01:12:58.980 i would say here is a classic classic example of conservatives winning one battle and then going

01:13:06.660 home back to the farms back to the shire you know thinking everything's done for and now everything

01:13:11.620 will work out and that's not the case because you need to project power as the base against

01:13:18.980 for your own political party when it's in office and then is when the real work starts because

01:13:24.980 that's a big problem there's a pain point for every writing politician trump talks about his

01:13:29.060 business friends and there are many lobbies in america influencing all the time and if the

01:13:33.620 re-migration voter base does not become a lobby itself which encourages uh trump or any any

01:13:40.820 politician but also becomes a pain point for them if they betray their voters then they will get

01:13:46.900 betrayed over and over again one example is meloni in italy she promised a c blockade when she was

01:13:52.820 in power no c blockade this would be the moment where writing alternative media independent media

01:13:59.380 writing activists would need to do actions get on the streets do a c blockade themselves to embarrass

01:14:04.580 her to force her to step in and to do something one example just to be concrete we in austria did

01:14:10.900 this in 2018 when there was a big u.n migration pact and we had a government of the freedom party

01:14:16.820 and the conservative party in austria they um had intentions to sign it they didn't really care

01:14:22.020 about it but then we made a huge campaign petitioning demonstrations we brought to the

01:14:26.420 public um attention and then the freedom party and uh really really put a lot of pressure on

01:14:33.460 the conservative party and austria was one of their own western european countries who did not

01:14:37.860 sign this pact minor example but if we would have slept it would have done nothing then nothing would

01:14:43.060 have happened so we need to become a lobby ourselves we become need to become loud and

01:14:47.060 powerful and we need to support but also criticize the right-wing party in power another concrete

01:14:53.860 example so the left is very well organized the right didn't win over the metapolitical dominance

01:14:59.460 in america the universities the ideological state apparatuses according to louis it was still very

01:15:05.940 much left wing but um the right had a very good momentum going on like now we had ice and what

01:15:14.100 happened to ice ice during the raids was harassed persecuted watched and hindered by the lefty people

01:15:23.940 by the antifa in a way that made them almost powerless or really really really slowed them

01:15:29.380 down and what did right-wingers do they clamored about it online so why didn't they create an

01:15:35.140 ice supporting movement going there binding the forces you know um off the left not violently

01:15:42.420 obviously but just filming them talking to them hindering them and hindering the the ice rates

01:15:47.620 and helping eyes like a volunteer eyes helping force just one example what what one could have

01:15:53.620 done but the problem is in my opinion the right wing doesn't really understand how um they have

01:15:58.580 to work while the political party is in power so again i would say it is a it is um yes it is a loss

01:16:06.260 but it will it isn't against my theory of change because you see it on the left working all the

01:16:10.900 time where left-wing politicians are in power during black life matter the left-wing groups

01:16:15.620 start acting they start forming a radical flank they start pressuring they start lobbying

01:16:20.980 and they're way more effective in that than the right i i think you uh especially the first part

01:16:26.420 of your answer uh maybe touched on it right you know we talked about in austria where the you know

01:16:31.220 the uh the people's party the kind of the mainstream conservative party uh wanted to sign

01:16:35.940 a migration pact and then there was there was pressure from the right in the american example

01:16:40.580 I think the problem is that Trump voters are too loyal to Trump, that there's a cult of

01:16:47.200 personality around it. I know a lot of people watching, I'm kind of offside with a lot of

01:16:52.240 Western-centered readers and viewers on the Iran war. I think it's a total betrayal of everything

01:16:56.900 Trump stands for. He ran for president three times saying no more these forever war, you know,

01:17:02.720 Team America World Police. And he was explicitly said no war with Iran. The Democrats are going

01:17:07.540 to get us into a war with Iran, and it could be World War III, and then he does it anyway.

01:17:12.340 And most Republicans, I mean, there's a significant dissenting minority, but most Republicans

01:17:17.040 say, well, Trump's for it, therefore I'm going to trust him, and I'm for the war.

01:17:22.880 Same thing with ending the mass deportations with ICE.

01:17:26.040 You know, ICE is still doing its thing, but not anywhere near the scale that it was.

01:17:31.600 Well, Trump says it's too hot politically, so we're just going to have to take his word

01:17:36.400 for it. And this is a case, I think, of where the voter coalition is too loyal to its leadership,

01:17:43.640 that the leadership does not fear their own core voters. In Alberta, I know you wouldn't know about

01:17:48.800 this, but, you know, during COVID, we had a conservative government that was supposed to

01:17:52.100 be a populist conservative government. And then they did kind of the same kind of lockdowns and

01:17:57.740 mandates as Justin Trudeau was trying to impose nationally and other left-hand politicians in

01:18:03.020 other provinces. In Alberta, we're not that loyal to our leaders. We overthrow, actually, we haven't

01:18:08.880 had a conservative leader, like we're very conservative here. We have pretty much just

01:18:12.680 conservative governments. We haven't had a conservative premier finish a single term

01:18:17.200 since I was in high school. 2004 was the last time one conservative leader did not get overthrown

01:18:23.680 during their own term. So we overthrow them all the time. So we overthrew that guy. And it's

01:18:31.200 Because, you know, we're loyal to them to a point.

01:18:33.100 They're the leader of the party.

01:18:35.000 They're the leader of the movement to an extent.

01:18:37.280 But if they deviate, you know, at least in Alberta, we overthrow them.

01:18:41.360 Nationally, we tend not to as well.

01:18:42.640 We're like, well, trust the leader.

01:18:44.420 Trust the plan.

01:18:45.540 They're plan followers.

01:18:46.680 It's all a part of the plan.

01:18:49.480 And so I think maybe where it went wrong in the United States is Trump became too dominant with the movement.

01:18:56.040 So that when he deviated from the program, when he deviated, people just said, it's a part of the plan.

01:19:01.200 we trust the leader and we're not going to therefore make him pay a political price for

01:19:06.160 deviating from it uh which again i see sort of a medical failure but i see that as almost that's

01:19:13.520 more on the on the parliamentary side that we're not willing to make the leader of the party of

01:19:19.280 the movement of the country etc pay a political price on a political level for betraying what

01:19:24.800 they said they stood for true i completely agree with you um and that's a problem because we should

01:19:31.120 should follow ideas not people because it is about ideas and it's about policy and not about

01:19:36.700 politicians and I also understand yes some Trump voters some other people feel betrayed I have to

01:19:42.340 say for me the way more important point in geopolitics where I also have my opinion is

01:19:46.600 migration is mass deportations because that's actually what's really saving the American

01:19:53.980 nation that's also what would cause irreversible damage contrary to geopolitical decisions if it

01:19:59.800 wasn't um pushed through and here again i think it's a question not about the theory of change

01:20:06.100 about met politics but no about political willpower and organization because we need to learn from

01:20:11.640 successful lobbies they all is clamoring about trump and other right-wing politicians are

01:20:15.720 influenced by these lobbies true yeah but if we cry about it doesn't change we need to become a

01:20:20.820 lobby ourselves and how does it work it's very clear very easy so how does the nra work how does

01:20:28.040 pro-life movement work how does the israel lobby work in america they create powerful think tanks

01:20:34.600 and institutions that influence the core water base of the political party they get their data

01:20:42.200 they organize them they create newsletters petitions they they create huge events and then

01:20:48.280 they uh they forge a political weapon they turn a political weapon out of the five ten fifteen

01:20:54.040 percent of the core water base of the political party that are die-hard fans and hardcore fans

01:20:59.400 of the ideology and then they use them in grassroots constituents of activism to influence

01:21:06.200 the certain politicians and west is happening on the right quest is happening on the question of

01:21:11.640 migration i'm not hearing about anything about the lobby for remigration organizing big conferences

01:21:16.840 mobilizing the republican voter base voted for trump to stop mass migration we just are talking

01:21:22.920 we have so many talking heads we have so many podcasts influence alternative media what we're

01:21:27.880 lacking is grassroots organizers activists think tanks to understand that we really need to become

01:21:34.040 a lobby and those things not happen by themselves by wipes and memes but by grassroots brutal

01:21:40.600 grassroots organization and i think that's why um it's not working so well in terms of

01:21:46.200 re-migration because the re-migration movement is very vocal very visible especially if you're

01:21:52.600 on x but it's not very organized it's not very structured it doesn't really have a sense of

01:21:58.920 power like left wing or some other right wing lobbies have so i would i stick by my theory

01:22:04.840 of change by metabolic sorry i wasn't convinced but i agree with you that we are not really

01:22:11.320 having big successes on this play field until now well i i'm not not convinced by it i'm just

01:22:18.360 looking at where have we won certain battles but still not actually won the war uh so that's where

01:22:25.480 i'm going i i think what you were just saying was also an excellent plug for your own organization

01:22:29.400 the institute for remigration well of course this was uh by accident yeah yeah that's exactly what

01:22:36.520 we're going to do i'm i'm i've been an activist for a while we've done a lot of things i'm maybe

01:22:42.200 some of your viewers even knew know about different europe where we chartered a ship and went to the

01:22:47.080 mediterranean we um put up fences in the italian french alps we uh block streets so i've been

01:22:55.160 doing a lot in the office my office was the streets been also organizing a lot of rallies

01:22:59.960 and demonstrations and now i want to focus on exactly this field because i think that's the

01:23:05.080 missing puzzle piece of the remigration writing movement we have a lot of great alternative media

01:23:10.520 which is of utmost importance so i think what you're doing is really metapolitically very very

01:23:16.520 important and as you said no one else in canadian media would even talk to someone like me it takes

01:23:21.720 someone like you who is independent who can choose to whom he talks by himself huge very important

01:23:28.200 we have activist movements we have parties but i think like kind of a missing piece are think

01:23:33.800 tanks organizers who take all these resources forge certain narrative strategies to turn us

01:23:39.720 into a real powerful lobby and that's what we're intending to do with the institute for immigration

01:23:45.000 which is in start to understand the like in the state of being founded right now okay well uh

01:23:51.880 martin selder i'm very grateful for your time um keep up the work you're doing uh keep us up to

01:23:59.000 date with uh with what's happening and uh perhaps we'll touch base i'm gonna be over in your neck

01:24:03.000 of the woods uh not too uh not too long from now thank you very much and greetings to all canadian

01:24:08.920 and Patriots from Austria.

01:24:10.840 Grüß.

Western Standard - March 24, 2026

FILDEBRANDT： The war against mass migration

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