Fireside chat with Jean Charest
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Summary
In this episode, I sit down with former premier of Alberta and current candidate for Prime Minister, Dougald Macleod, to discuss his leadership campaign and why he's running for the premier s office in Alberta.
Transcript
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you launched your campaign yeah in calgary here um you actually did a good place the wild rose
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brewery as a wild roser i appreciated the tribute um you launched a campaign in calgary and just
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yesterday on uh triggered with cory morgan western standard show you announced an equalization policy
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and i'm going to ask you another question on equalization so okay uh but i maybe a broader
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question here there's been a lot of conflict between alberta and quebec for a long time and
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it's at least perceived probably to be at a greater level now than it has been in a very long time
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you've served as the premier of quebec thank you here to serve um you've served as the premier of
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quebec and you served in the the mulrooney government um but you know the more the last
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time when the mulrooney government kind of ended badly as the national conservative coalition
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fragmented very much long uh regional lines um why should westerners trust you as a you know coming
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from quebec and you have to defend the interests of your province when you're the premier but
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why should albertans look to you to have their best interests at art now derek and thank you first of
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all for the invitation and for pointing out that we i think we accepted spontaneously roman and and scott
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and i this invitation to be with you today and i'm delighted to join you and to share some thoughts
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about this leadership race and to do it here in alberta and western canada let me start by saying
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that yes i i i talked and i i'm proposing an alberta accord and there's a reason for that and the reason
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why i chose to come to calgary on the very first day of my campaign i'm very much running as someone who
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has a very deeply held belief in canada and i and that belief includes uh the reality and the fact
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that if we want this country to succeed alberta has to be at the very heart of what we do it can't be
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on the sidelines and what i wanted to do early on in the campaign is acknowledge the fact that a lot of
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albertans today feel left out they feel they've been set aside that they're not recognized that the
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rest of the country not just the federal government but the rest of the country has not acknowledged
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the fact that alberta has gone through a very tough time and yet when alberta is prosperous and doing
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well the rest of the country is very happy to share the wealth with alberta with the rest of the
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uh with all of canada and when times are not as good well all of a sudden it's as though alberta
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doesn't count anymore and uh and i and it's one of the reasons why i'm in this race derrick because
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i know from the experience i've had and and as someone who believes very deeply in canada that the only
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way this country can succeed is if alberta is at the table and and participating in shaping the agenda
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the country and its policies it's what i believe in and it's been the common thread of my whole
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political life and so i'm i'm here to to say that not only do i i think that's the case but i also
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think it's important that we put it into policies and i understand the anger and the disappointment
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but the real question in a leadership race and for a leader is what do you do after what happens what
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do you do if people are disappointed and they feel that anger how do we translate that into something
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that is going to be substantive and real and change things and that's what i want to do in this
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leadership race and that's why i've proposed an alberta accord starting with alberta for all of western
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canada but alberta as the center center and the focus of how we need to change the country starting with
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alberta so i want to talk about what that looks like um i mean i don't have to remind anyone here
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yourself or anyone attending um is my microphone cutting out again it's good okay that's okay i can
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do the talking um i was only ever in an opposition as a politician i was uh so i only ever got to ask
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questions that answer them um you know alberta and to a lesser extent bc and saskatchewan have paid a
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ton into equalization alberta pays into equalization uh even even when we're going through a bust not
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just in the booms we got a boom right now we'll probably screw it up again but uh you know we do
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it even in busts um and at the same time i think albertans feel punished because despite the contribution
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of albert and the west more broadly the federal government and some provinces go out of their way
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to hem us in from fully developing the resources that pay the bills nationally um so you put forward the
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idea of this alberta accord the corey morgan show and this is going to involve equalization
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why don't you flesh out a bit more what you i understand there's negotiation in these things
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and it would be between you and premiers council of the federation but what would you see as a
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starting place for what this might look like well i become leader of the party and were successful
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in forming a national government and forming a national government also means including alberta
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in the first 30 days after my election i would meet with the premier of alberta to start the
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process of defining what is going to be an alberta accord and in the first six months of my mandate
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i'd also meet with the provinces through the council of the federation that i i was part of creating
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in 2003 the chair a meeting that by the way would be co-chaired by whoever is the chair of the council
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of the federation and the prime minister and that's not a matter of detail we live in a federal system
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of government ladies and gentlemen canadians tend to forget that certainly ottawa does they don't seem
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to be aware in this federal system of government of ours which is very decentralized it is the provinces
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that run this country on a day-to-day basis i know i've been there i've been on both sides
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education health i mean you name it and so it we need to acknowledge that and the provinces are
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not a sub level in a federation of the federal government they each work within their areas of
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jurisdiction and so within the six months the idea behind that derek would be i would sit down to shape
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the agenda with the provinces and then within the year i would conclude uh an agreement an alberta accord
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that would be the lead province for all of western canada it's not just about alberta it's also as
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you mentioned saskatchewan manitoba and british columbia who may may not see itself as part of western
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canada and the idea here is to conclude an agreement on a few subjects first equalization making equalization
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fair for alberta which means that if you pay into equalization and when things are not as well
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then you're not penalized for it and that equalization is has to be understood throughout
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the country as being an extraordinary contribution by those who have the good fortune of having an
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economy that's doing well but other provinces have a responsibility also in regards to receiving
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equalization the second issue would be i would i would be inspired by the fair deal panel is pensions
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quebec has a quebec pension fund they've done it since the 1960s i think alberta should have its share
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of the canadian pension fund that goes to albertans and do like quebec has and has and run that own
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pension fund by the way i was in the house of comments in the 1990s when the cppib was created
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we had a debate at the time very few people know this about creating more than one fund instead of the mega
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cppib why there were two reasons one to de-risk if there were more than one fund you wouldn't put every
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all the eggs in the same basket and two to create more competition makes sense now this is a significant
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for alberta because if alberta is running its own pension fund this is a very powerful economic tool for
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alberta one you do not have now you have the alberta investment board but this would be a very powerful
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tool so the third i i know i'm taking a lot of time but the third one's immigration quebec has a
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specific deal on immigration alberta should have the same deal it's good for quebec it should be
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good for alberta and what would this allow you to do that you're not able to do now choose the
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immigrants that you want to bring in according to your priorities in the labor market for example
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the other area is a police force if you wish and that have an alberta provincial police that's fine
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that's your decision and as the federal prime minister who responsible for the rcmp i would
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facilitate that and the fifth area would be trade non-trade so that would be the beginning of the
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alberta accord a fresh start for canada in regards to how we deal with alberta and we deal with all of
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the country so anyone who watches the pipeline will know i get very impressed with my ability
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to segue and i'm equally impressed with myself right now um alberta's going through a not so quiet
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revolution right now uh you know in the 1960s and early 70s quebec started to assert itself as uh you
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know quebec nation what have you and to take back control um see this great segue um we had the
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firewall letter of 2001 signed by stephen harper and other uh largely academics and some other people
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in the business community in calgary we had the fair deal panel in 2020 and i think so the direction
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continues to get more aggressive in terms of what a lot of at least a large segment of alberta is
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demanding and and and saskatchewan is i think coming along on some of these things uh one of the major
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candidates for the leadership of the united conservative party of alberta danielle smith
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has proposed something she calls the alberta sovereignty act i'm not sure how much you know
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about it uh but this would uh more or less be an act that allows the legislature to declare
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certain federal legislation will just not be enforced in alberta be on the books but it will
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not be enforced other provinces have experimented with things like this in the past just not quite so
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brashly enshrined it in legislation but there were things like that with drug policy in british
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colombia over time and quebec has done it to one degree or another um if the alberta sovereignty act
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passes and you were elected prime minister how would you react to it well and what you're describing
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in your introduction by the way is you know a move towards more autonomy of the provinces there's
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nothing wrong with that by the way folks i mean again canada is one of the the most decentralized
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federations in the world the only other country that is more decentralized than canada and i hope
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there's no one from belgium here is belgium and no one understands how belgium operates and the best
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period is when they had no government for a year and a half but canada and also one of the features
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of canadian federalism contrary to other federations is that the provinces are responsible for natural
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resources that's an exception more than rule and so there's nothing wrong derrick with provinces
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assuming more autonomy and the idea is that the federal government's job is to coordinate this to
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make to make it work the federal government will continue to have very real powers one of them is
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called the federal spending power which is extremely important and gives them the ability to hold do a
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whole number of things but we are stronger when provinces are strong okay so i know you've you've
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spoken a lot about autonomy and provinces taking control over their areas in provincial jurisdiction
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but i mean to press on this uh well this specifically the idea of not enforcing certain federal legislation
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on the provincial well it depends let's try to give it an example let's take the environment for example
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you know we could very well coordinate environmental processes so that whatever the provincial
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environmental process is it is value for what the federal environment process is you understand
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what and i've seen that done before you say instead of doing two environmental processes we're going to
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do one or there will be the provincial environmental process of the federal government recognizes as being
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the equivalent of what the federal government would do that is the kind of intelligent thing you do
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in a federation that works i understand by the way very well what danielle smith is saying in regards to
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how we operate our federation and that's why one of the reasons why i'm running by the way and why i
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think i would be for this job the right person is that i actually think it'd be a breath of fresh air
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in ottawa to have someone as prime minister who's been the premier of a province and who actually
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understands how the country operates and what i'm going to say may surprise a lot of people i've been on
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both sides but you know what there's a lot of people in ottawa who don't know how this country
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operates they don't have a clue and it's a bubble and it is a bubble i've experienced it and i remember
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being premier and saying to my my colleagues i oh i only wish the feds would be as federalist as i was
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federalist let's say i'll give you an example mr trudeau comes out of the campaign he delivers a budget
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does a deal with mr singh they're back on spending when actually we should be reigning in spending
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and then with mr singh he makes a deal where he says this he says we're going to try to do an
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agreement on pharma care and dental care ladies and gentlemen that is provincial jurisdiction
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a b can i tell you something when they come to the table derek and say to the provinces we want to do
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a deal on pharma care and we'll co-fund it i guarantee you the answer will be we have seen this
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movie before and as soon as there are downturn in the economy you guys are going to walk away from
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funding and we'll be left holding the program it's not going to happen and what does that say about that
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government they don't get it they don't understand how it works well i think it'd be good to have a
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prime minister who does and who's been there okay well thank you um by the way i've never thought in
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my lifetime i'd have jay hill and his wife leah applaud me so much i may run you as a candidate in my
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campaign uh my reporters have just taken oh i'm sorry don't record that uh since 2020 uh the federal
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government the provinces have engaged in we're switching gears a bit here the federal government
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the provinces have engaged uh in a very large suite of restrictions involving covid uh lockdowns
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mandatory masking mandatory vaccines uh this in many respects has created a breach uh this has been
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particularly difficult for conservative leaders to handle uh i think as the libertarian portion for
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lack of a better term within the conservative coalition i think has become probably a larger
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segment than it has been maybe in the past and it's created a breach with those kinds of voters
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uh it has arguably taken down the last conservative leader erin o'toole it uh i think very arguably took
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down the premier of alberta we're having two leadership races here um you know you've been critical
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of mr polyev and uh mr babber's support of the freedom convoy um and i know that you've said you want
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to get rid of the remaining federal mandates i think absolutely everybody does but i want to know
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if you believe that at least the federal mandates and i know the provincial ones are a whole other
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kettle of fish here but the federal mandates do you believe that they were ever justified it at any
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point in the last two two and a half years you mentioned roman and i i want to say something about
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roman and i didn't know him very well before this leadership race but i know enough about roman to say
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this roman stood on a question of principle and sacrificed a lot to stand on those principles and
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i i want to recognize that because that is something that doesn't happen very often and and is admirable
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and says something about character and he wasn't he wasn't the last one to arrive at this by the way
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he didn't follow the parade he was ahead of it and he paid he paid a price uh for that now on this issue
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which is always a very difficult issue i think the federal government i i can't follow what their
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positions are now i think as we all started on this uh covid uh episode we all no one had a playbook
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on how you do it and i think we all cut slack for everyone including whether it's kenny ford whether it's
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lego in quebec or everyone we're trying to figure out how what is this and how do we deal with it and how
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do we protect people one thing stands out in my experience in the canadian experience relative to
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the rest of the world it's our inability to treat people in hospitals what we call our capacity and
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that's what the main difference was between canada and the united states we did not have the hospital
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capacity to actually treat people and that's something that speaks to a very urgent problem in
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the country our healthcare system was broken before covet and it's been made worse i would as a prime
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minister do something that some people think is attacking a sacred cow especially federal liberals
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i would table a new canada health act i would allow the provinces to innovate i'd then tie their hands
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and allow them to bring in private sector care and remaining with a single pair so that we have a
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healthcare system to deliver services and why so that we not have lockdowns so that we have a healthcare
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system that has the ability to absorb people who are sick whether it's covet or anything else
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now right now the confusion is you know in the federal government we have to admit it's broken
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right now can't deliver passports airports are a mess uh the immigration department has a huge backlog
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michelle and i met my wife is with me we traveled over here she's on me every day put the mask on take
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the mask off at the airport we walk through the desk we don't no mask we go for security have a mask
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take the off security take the mask off put it back on get on the plane put on the mask i mean
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and that's all federal i mean it's total confusion it doesn't make sense in the meantime everywhere
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else here in alberta and in quebec and everywhere you don't wear a mask i i get it i mean the federal
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government i don't know what game they're playing with this but it doesn't make sense
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and uh and on this issue we've now we're going to go through different waves i think we've we're not
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going to go back into lockdowns but please let's have the courage and wherewithal to fix our
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health care system so that we don't have to contemplate the worst of solutions to deal with
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an epidemic so i appreciate your answer around health care reform that would obviously be a
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monumental change yes icu capacity was one of the big distinguishing factors i don't want to get my
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numbers wrong but little montana with about a quarter of our population just south of us had
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the same icu capacity as alberta exactly and i should say something and that obviously means we
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have a greater stress on our system than the americans had and that would contribute things
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like lockdowns mass mandates vaccine mandates but i have to press um so within the lockdowns were
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pretty much provincial um but vaccine mandates were federal and provincial um when they brought in
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vaccine mandates uh you know i suppose september last year i'm sure it had nothing to do with election
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timing but um not much no do you believe it had do you believe that there was ever any justification
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for federal vaccine mandates for say federal workers or travel there was a lot of reasons to encourage
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people to get vaccinated i got vaccinated by the way three times i got back and i got coveted by the
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way it didn't stop me from getting covet but let me share an experience that gives you my perspective on
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it in the province of quebec le go gets this idea that everyone in the health care system has to be
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vaccinated everyone no exceptions and then they go out there and every week they pound it we have
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until i think was the 15th of november not vaccinated you're going to be fired well guess what they
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backed off because there were going to be 15 000 people in that system who were walking away from their
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jobs and then they said well you know what we can't afford to let them go now truckers who were the heroes
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of the covet you know period and celebrated and rightfully so rightfully so i mean they're the ones
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carrying goods and all of a sudden we discovered how valuable those who in their economy were either
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on trucking or working in in shops or other other words were and then then he comes in with this rule
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well i don't think it works so i don't i and looking into the future derek i don't i don't see how
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you can impose it on everyone because it's just not going to work and we're going to hamper ability to deal
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there's other ways of working around it and and making sure that we do as much as we can
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so that people have the ability to choose to protect their health and protect those around them
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so i've got the five minute warning on our chat here so what i'm uh i'm going to try and be brief
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and if you can too i'm going to try and get two questions this is the lightning round i i heard your
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warning all right um this question is a little self-interested maybe a lot uh in addition to the cbc the
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federal government now directly subsidizes virtually the entire media all the legacy media and even a
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lot of the independent media this means that independence like the western standard and some
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of the other independents here today we're subsidizing massive even multinational corporations that are
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media corporations with our with our corporate income taxes and it even more concerning it means
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that the federal government now was in essentially the media licensing business we went through it for
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fun just to see what would happen and it was positively orwellian we've always now we also got the
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online news act coming which would forcibly it would force social media giants to give preferential
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ranking and feeds to government approved media if you're elected prime minister uh where would you
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stand on the media bailouts and the online news actor would those be pieces of legislation you'd be
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prepared to do away with and congratulations you do not receive any federal government money
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and your subscribers are the ones who support what you do and we're stuck with them yeah well and
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they're stuck with you and so it's a two-way street derrick and so and so that's what i believe in and
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i i as a conservative and someone who believes in the freedom of the press i find it very difficult
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to accept federal government is funding and i and can you actually look at a a society in which the
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federal government's funding the press and the end the press is independent they can say they're
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independent as much as they can and keep a distance i i find it difficult to accept that so i would not fund
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uh the press i don't i don't think that's acceptable
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and i'm here by the way i'm here with western standard because i also believe in the independent
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press thank you uh in 2020 the federal liberals used the cabinet uh an order in council to uh ban
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about 1500 different firearms that they claim were military or assault style uh rifles this include
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some anti-tank missiles that i didn't know weren't banned until now um i i really wish i would have
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known i got my hands on some russian anti-aircraft missiles you don't know what we get up to in
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alberta uh but many of these were just otherwise normal hunting and sport shooting rifles um but
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largely just that had an appearance that uh looks scary to to the uninitiated but you said several months
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ago you would not change any firearms legislation uh since then but since your announcement the
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liberals have also said they're going to bring in a bill to ban the sale of handguns um does this
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mean you would not reverse the band on what the so-called military assault style like if you can
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maybe clear that up yeah where do you stand on the changes between the liberals on on the 1500 guns
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and then the handgun changes they say they're going to make your prime minister what are you going to
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do on those two fronts well let me let me touch the essential points the issue on guns in canada
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is illegal handguns in cities that's the issue today in this country i'm you know we have a home
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in montreal there's not a day not literally not a day where there isn't a shooting in plain daylight
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i mean people are shocked by that that's what the federal government needs to deal with and make
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sure that we stop the illegal commerce of these illegal handguns coming in number two this oic
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should be revised by experts who are independent from the government and and politics and really
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define what it is that they call an assault and weapons and you know what we're we're going to end
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up with a much smaller list than what we have in terms of the federal government's baiting so the
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so the anti-aircraft missiles stay banned right and well well we'll have to see the experts will
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pronounce on that by the way just an anecdote of that the 97 campaign some of you may remember
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jean christian made a statement he was running for us liberal prime minister that we have to stop
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children having nuclear weapons in the basements of their family's homes i mean it was and then and then
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the third thing i i i would add about all of this is something for conservatives every time we get
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an election campaign the liberals bait us on handguns every time and you know what every time we take
00:25:41.280
the bait i'm going to run as a leader of a party and as a in the next campaign on my agenda for the economy
00:25:49.280
and i'm very determined that there's one thing we're not going to do is run on the issues that
00:25:54.720
the liberals are going to throw at us but which is and we're going to stop it's gotten to the point
00:26:00.880
where i'm convinced now that conservatives are the most generous political party in the world
00:26:05.760
they go into election campaigns they actually give it away to the liberals the liberals don't win
00:26:11.200
campaigns we lose them and we give it to them but can we agree on one thing on the whole issue
00:26:18.560
they will trot it out again i guarantee you this will be and if they will want to make this an issue
00:26:24.960
because that is exactly the way that they operate in a campaign so i i all of us agree on what the
00:26:32.160
main problem is on terms of guns please let's focus on the things that we believe in as opposed to
00:26:39.840
to responding to our adversaries uh taunts thank you derek thank you very much thank you