Western Standard - Former MP & Maverick Party leader Jay Hill on federal politics

00:00:00.000 I'm always glad to bring you in.

00:00:01.720 I'm glad to get in this final part of the show this week.

00:00:04.900 And federally, you know, that's your area of skill.

00:00:07.600 You were in parliament for, I believe it was 17 years.

00:00:09.700 That's right.

00:00:10.180 And you got the Maverick Party going.

00:00:12.360 I was talking a bit about that earlier.

00:00:14.940 What are we looking at in the federal scene?

00:00:16.740 Like we've got a leadership race going on right now.

00:00:19.840 It's looking very likely like Mr. Poliev is going to win it.

00:00:23.820 But could he win the federal election?

00:00:25.640 Will the party split if he does win it?

00:00:27.420 I mean, there's a lot of questions going on.

00:00:28.920 We're kind of in a period of flux.

00:00:31.140 Well, my sense, and I'd actually like to pick up on what you were just talking about before I came on your set, because it does tie in with both, I believe, Danielle Smith in Alberta and Pierre Poliev federally.

00:00:46.620 And that is that there seems to be, and you touched on it, there seems to be this new culture in our society that in order to be noticed,

00:00:56.880 you have to be abrasive, you have to be abrasive, I'll put it that way.

00:01:01.260 And I think part of it, I was just discussing this with a good friend of mine, Dave Rutherford last night.

00:01:06.000 And I think part of that is a byproduct, if you will, of social media.

00:01:10.780 You know, it used to be back when we were young, or certainly when I was young, that these national protests were virtually all peaceable.

00:01:20.040 There wasn't riots, there wasn't looting, there wasn't people harmed.

00:01:24.920 You know, but now anymore, it seems like that's where it starts off on social media.

00:01:32.280 But then at some point, to be noticed for society, the citizens to pay attention to it, they have to escalate it.

00:01:41.800 And unfortunately, I see at least that creeping into politics, where it seems like the people that are, you know, right on the edge, as far as aggressiveness, are the ones that get noticed.

00:01:56.240 Yeah, well, and we're so, I mean, we see it at the left and right, we see a lot of pundits talk about we're polarized, we really are in a way that we haven't been so much before.

00:02:03.900 I mean, such factions, I'm over here, you're over there, I don't like you because you're over there. 0.98

00:02:08.560 Well, you're an arsehole because you're over here. 0.99

00:02:10.600 I mean, there's always been a bit of that, that's nothing new. 0.99

00:02:12.500 But this is just seems so cut and dry now.

00:02:15.760 There isn't much of a mushy middle and not much room for people to move to one side or another.

00:02:20.680 They're too busy firing at each other.

00:02:22.360 No, and I've noticed it escalating, quite honestly, in the latter part of my career.

00:02:28.040 You know, I left Parliament in 2010, just before Stephen Harper won his majority government.

00:02:33.660 And I noticed it then, being involved in the House of Commons and question period, that it was getting extremely antagonistic.

00:02:42.300 It was getting in-your-face politics.

00:02:44.620 There was a lack of respect only, not only for people from another party and their point of view, completely dismissing it.

00:02:53.300 But even within the individual parties themselves, and certainly there was a growing disrespect for Parliament, for the institution itself.

00:03:01.940 And there's a multitude of reasons for that, I believe, Corey.

00:03:04.880 But it seems to me that since then, so in the next decade, say, from the time I left, 2010 to, what are we at, 2022, so a dozen years now, it's only gotten worse and worse and worse.

00:03:19.860 And some of that, I think, is attributable to the rise of Donald Trump south of the border.

00:03:25.800 You know, he was right in-your-face politics.

00:03:28.600 He either agreed with me or you're the enemy.

00:03:32.100 And there was no room left for what I would call respectful debate.

00:03:37.340 Yeah, I mean, it really brought it up in that, again, as you said, he was one who could really grab the attention.

00:03:42.340 And it worked, and it got him in as the president.

00:03:45.160 But, I mean, for those who opposed him, they became so mortified.

00:03:48.580 And then the tone in pushing back, I mean, it just snowballed.

00:03:51.600 It even went further.

00:03:51.880 It snowballed, yeah.

00:03:53.080 It became, you know, just, it seems like an ongoing madness.

00:03:55.520 And I look back to, for example, for the Trucker's Convoy, for example.

00:03:58.880 I mean, never, never have we seen a sitting government when there's some sort of large protest, just immediately dismiss it, call them extreme, call them racists, call them every name in the book without any basis.

00:04:10.640 I mean, this is, you know, again, you can disagree with that protest.

00:04:13.840 Absolutely.

00:04:14.340 There was no racial component to that thing.

00:04:16.380 There was no, you know, seditionists among them. 0.96

00:04:19.740 I mean, some clown wrote something on a Facebook post. 0.95

00:04:21.740 So, whatever. 0.97

00:04:22.340 But that's the way the tone immediately goes.

00:04:24.220 Yeah.

00:04:24.440 And the media fed that.

00:04:26.380 And each side just kind of, well, if you push me, I'm going to push back.

00:04:29.600 And we're all losing, I think.

00:04:31.820 Well, as all too often happens, some controversial issues.

00:04:35.080 And let's face it, it was controversial.

00:04:37.380 The whole intent for the convoy was to push back against government policy.

00:04:42.440 They were opposed to the continuation of the mandates.

00:04:45.200 They thought they'd outlived their usefulness, especially when it was applied to truckers.

00:04:49.460 That, let's face it, you know, I noticed on Friday was International Truckers Day.

00:04:54.940 And you made reference to it and good on you for doing that.

00:04:58.620 But let's face it, a trucker spends probably 99% of his or her time alone.

00:05:04.680 Like, what is the risk there of being a carrier of something like COVID?

00:05:10.400 You know, so, you know, you really, when you look at the situation, you have to ask, what was the government trying to prove by, you know, imposing this new mandate on the truckers?

00:05:21.460 And so, you know, people rose up and they said, this makes no sense.

00:05:25.860 And as you say, they were vilified by our very own prime minister.

00:05:30.380 Instead of him saying, you know what, I disagree with these people, but they have a right to disagree with their government.

00:05:36.860 They have a constitutional right.

00:05:39.460 So they're coming to Ottawa.

00:05:40.820 I'm happy to meet with them.

00:05:42.360 I'll give them 15 minutes of my valuable time when I'm not surfing.

00:05:46.380 And I'll listen to their concerns.

00:05:49.160 Well, and you show some respect.

00:05:50.560 You get out.

00:05:51.020 I mean, I understand you don't have to agree with them.

00:05:53.300 You don't have to capitulate, but you still have to respect.

00:05:55.480 I mean, even the worst of polls showed that perhaps 20% of Canadians supported that.

00:05:59.380 Well, if you've got that many, that's millions and millions of Canadians that you are dismissing in the worst of terms.

00:06:06.600 At least, you know, if you've gone, you'd met with them or a couple of leaders.

00:06:10.120 I understand you're not going to walk amongst them.

00:06:12.540 Yeah, fair enough. 0.98

00:06:13.480 But then you can turn around and say, yeah, they're crazy.

00:06:15.100 But I tried sitting down with them and we can't reason any longer.

00:06:18.720 Now we have to move.

00:06:19.460 But when you dismiss them right from the first moment.

00:06:21.920 Well, even before they got there.

00:06:23.540 And you said, as you said, I mean, call them the most vile names.

00:06:27.380 I mean, one of the leaders that's since been honoured.

00:06:29.960 I was pleased to be at a Calgary chapter of the Justice Centre honouring Tamara Leash the other night.

00:06:37.480 I believe it was Thursday evening.

00:06:38.840 And, I mean, her and her colleagues that organised that convoy were called misogynists.

00:06:47.700 I mean, here's a female mother, grandmother, and a Métis, of Métis heritage.

00:06:56.100 You know, and so they were calling them racist.

00:06:58.300 I mean, think about this. 0.97

00:07:00.080 It's absolutely ludicrous. 0.80

00:07:02.340 And yet that's our Prime Minister doing that. 0.94

00:07:05.340 And he gets away with it.

00:07:06.360 That's what really annoys people, especially people like you and I that have an option of speaking out.

00:07:13.120 Well, yeah.

00:07:13.520 It frustrates people, though.

00:07:15.040 And it can drive people on the other side to other extremes.

00:07:17.700 And, I mean, we've seen very vitriolic protests going after the Prime Minister at times or Jagmeet Singh, you know, pebbles are thrown.

00:07:25.940 I know people say it's minor.

00:07:26.840 But, no, when you're throwing things at an elected official, that's major, right?

00:07:29.480 Yeah.

00:07:30.120 Even if it's just pebbles.

00:07:32.260 But that frustration keeps building.

00:07:33.900 And then it drives people to feel that they're out of options and they take more extreme or at least, you know, more threatening poses sometimes.

00:07:42.200 And it doesn't lead to a good democratic end.

00:07:44.700 And, well, where does it end up?

00:07:46.160 But it ends up with, you know, something like what happened to Salman Rushdie the other day.

00:07:51.180 Yeah.

00:07:51.580 I mean, nobody advocates for that type of solution to an expression of your disagreement.

00:07:58.200 And it gets full circle back.

00:08:00.000 And that's why I wanted to talk about this.

00:08:01.800 And, obviously, you did as well because you mentioned it in advance.

00:08:05.480 Is this new sense of aggressiveness on the part of political debate and rhetoric.

00:08:13.580 And, like you say, it's always been there.

00:08:16.040 I mean, I participated in that.

00:08:17.660 But there was an underlying respect before that people were allowed to hold a differing opinion.

00:08:25.040 And I don't see that anymore from either side.

00:08:27.160 You've got the extremes on the right and on the left, Corey.

00:08:31.520 And those extremes are driving the debate.

00:08:34.480 And they have absolutely no willingness to even listen to what the other side's point of view is.

00:08:40.040 Well, that's it.

00:08:41.000 And I see we've got a federal election that might happen sometime, any moment now, or perhaps in three years.

00:08:46.140 I mean, minority governance, that's our nature.

00:08:48.080 But if either liberals or conservatives win a majority, I can't see the losing side accepting it.

00:08:54.180 I see mass protests coming.

00:08:56.340 I see, you know, similar to what we saw in the states.

00:08:58.880 And it just, I don't want to sound too dejected.

00:09:02.460 I'm hoping this goes circle and we come out of this mess somehow.

00:09:05.660 But I don't know, maybe we can't do that without systematic change.

00:09:09.140 Well, of course, that's what I was advocating, continue to advocate for Western Canada.

00:09:13.840 You know, when I founded the Maverick Party, along with another small group of supporters,

00:09:19.400 I've since done like you are about to do.

00:09:21.920 And I stepped back in mid-May and turned the party over to its new leader and the group around him.

00:09:29.780 So I too, I guess you run a certain course with a certain initiative, just as you have with Triggered.

00:09:34.980 And then you need to reevaluate, you know, how much you're gaining, how much you're progressing.

00:09:39.840 And so I took that step back.

00:09:41.960 But I still fundamentally believe, I say I'm a slow learner.

00:09:46.100 I've admitted to that.

00:09:47.900 I admitted that, you know, my 17 years in Ottawa, if it didn't teach me anything else,

00:09:53.360 it taught me that the parliamentary system and the system of government,

00:09:58.280 and indeed Canada's constitution is rigged against Western Canada.

00:10:02.680 So I'm a big advocate, as I know you are, in systematic change.

00:10:07.960 Can that ever happen?

00:10:09.620 That's up to the scholars to debate.

00:10:12.240 It certainly hasn't happened in the last 150 years.

00:10:15.160 So I guess we'll have to see what Canada looks like going forward.

00:10:20.120 But certainly I've been advocating very strongly, and that's why I put together the Maverick Party,

00:10:24.720 is to try to give Westerners their own voice, similar to what the Bloc Québécois does in Quebec.

00:10:31.560 Well, that's it, and getting a voice, getting respect.

00:10:33.320 I mean, I think what makes people feel they have to get a little extreme, too,

00:10:36.940 is if they feel they're out of options.

00:10:38.220 They feel there's no other means to express themselves, or any way they do express themselves,

00:10:41.760 they get belittled or dismissed.

00:10:43.620 And the media play a large part in this, too.

00:10:46.300 Absolutely.

00:10:47.100 And, you know, where I see other stuff like bureaucratic leaders,

00:10:49.700 and this is, I was seeing it just when you were coming in,

00:10:52.140 this ongoing fear and fear and stress and pressure.

00:10:55.520 I saw one that Dave mentioned, I believe, on the news check-in with Tam,

00:11:00.280 now saying, well, you know, we should be paying people who quarantine with monkeypox.

00:11:05.320 Now, why are we quarantining people with monkeypox?

00:11:10.620 We've pretty much established this doesn't transmit like COVID, you know,

00:11:14.000 by breathing on a person or whatever.

00:11:15.220 It takes some closer contact and other things.

00:11:18.340 Where has this gone to where we immediately react to everything then

00:11:21.140 by quarantining and having the government fill it in?

00:11:23.160 But why is monkeypox, I think it said on that,

00:11:25.820 we've got 38 people in hospital across the whole country historically on this,

00:11:29.980 and we're calling it an emergency.

00:11:31.220 But the government's banging the emergency drum,

00:11:33.280 the civil servants are, and the media, of course, just follows along.

00:11:36.720 Everybody's scared and stressed.

00:11:38.120 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:39.440 And it's most unfortunate.

00:11:41.860 And, you know, I think the big difficulty, certainly for myself,

00:11:46.240 and I think for any thinking Canadian,

00:11:49.420 is reflecting back over the last nearly three years now,

00:11:53.280 coming up this winter, of COVID, is, did we do the right things?

00:11:59.520 You know, certainly government and health officials were reacting,

00:12:02.600 as best they could.

00:12:03.900 I don't think that, you know, there was nefarious intent

00:12:06.540 in any of the actions that were taken.

00:12:09.440 But with the ability of hindsight, 2020 hindsight,

00:12:12.540 to look back and say, okay, almost three years later,

00:12:15.720 we still don't know.

00:12:17.160 I still, you know, I'm quadruple vaxxed.

00:12:19.140 I don't know whether that was the right decision.

00:12:20.780 And, you know, I just noticed today that the CEO and president of Pfizer

00:12:27.240 was just diagnosed with COVID.

00:12:30.860 He's quadruple vaxxed.

00:12:32.540 So obviously he came in contact and he caught it and he tested positive.

00:12:35.840 And he's probably got the, you know, the equivalent of a serious flu,

00:12:40.280 because that's what I understand the symptoms are most of the time,

00:12:43.540 unless you really are immune deficient.

00:12:46.260 And so three years later, Corey, we still don't know where this is.

00:12:51.760 And, you know, so is it wrong that Canadians question this

00:12:55.640 and that there's a debate even amongst families, even amongst couples?

00:12:59.680 No, of course not.

00:13:01.060 Because nobody has all the answers.

00:13:03.040 Well, and a lot of the pressure that's been coming on

00:13:06.100 is just belittling people who have questions.

00:13:08.600 Like, the infringement on individual rights.

00:13:12.220 I mean, this is where I know I was, well, I haven't gotten boosters or anything,

00:13:17.640 but I got the first two vaccinations, fine.

00:13:20.240 But my problem was the coercion.

00:13:22.160 That's my problem.

00:13:22.840 Let people choose.

00:13:23.720 If somebody chooses not to leave them.

00:13:25.380 And respect their right to choose.

00:13:27.260 Yeah.

00:13:27.520 And I think I read a column recently where the Toronto Star had a headline

00:13:32.020 from somebody saying, you know, I don't care if they catch it and die, 0.99

00:13:35.260 then if they choose not to get immunized, they're fools. 0.99

00:13:37.500 Because, whoa, these are, again, we're talking about millions of people 0.98

00:13:41.880 who, whether you agree with them or not, deserve some respect

00:13:44.740 and personally autonomy of body.

00:13:46.820 Yeah.

00:13:47.260 Well, and as soon as someone makes a statement like that,

00:13:49.780 it elicits the exact same statement from the extreme on the other side.

00:13:53.620 It says, well, you know, if people choose to take the vaccine

00:13:57.320 and they die from it, well, that's their choice.

00:14:01.640 And so, as we've been discussing, that ends up in sort of a them

00:14:07.100 versus us, you know, that type of a debate instead of a respectful debate,

00:14:12.640 which, by the way, the Maverick Party, there was some confusion about it

00:14:17.900 throughout the three years, almost three years now.

00:14:20.900 Our position all along was respect for choice, okay?

00:14:26.180 And it always struck me odd that some of the most virulent people

00:14:30.440 opposed to that position are the people that are pro-choice

00:14:34.480 when it comes to the abortion issue.

00:14:36.980 Yeah.

00:14:37.280 So how can you pick and choose which ones you uphold your right to choose?

00:14:43.240 And then say for those when it comes to the vaccination, well, no, no,

00:14:48.700 you have to go with the way I believe, whether it's opposed to the vaccine

00:14:52.860 or in favor of it.

00:14:54.240 Well, and supporting the coercion again too, right?

00:14:56.320 You were never forced.

00:14:57.480 Okay, come on, guys, that's what gets me.

00:14:59.460 If you took a woman and said, okay, we're not going to force you to do anything,

00:15:04.160 but if you choose to get an abortion, we will fire you from your job, 0.98

00:15:06.960 we'll stop you from traveling, we'll stop you from visiting family members,

00:15:10.420 we won't let you into certain businesses.

00:15:13.360 You can't get on an airplane.

00:15:14.640 That would be in court so fast.

00:15:16.860 It wouldn't even be conceivable.

00:15:19.020 I mean, the coercion would be well beyond the pale of even acceptable.

00:15:22.380 But when it came to something as personal as medication, apparently that was acceptable.

00:15:27.740 And the people who chose not to, for whatever their reasons were, were not respectful.

00:15:32.380 Well, you have to, again, you have to go back to the beginning and look at the arguments

00:15:36.160 why the government supposedly brought this very forceful process into place,

00:15:43.780 where they were effectively going to force people.

00:15:46.980 You can call it whatever they want.

00:15:48.680 And it was supposedly to protect the most vulnerable in society.

00:15:52.860 Well, that's very admirable.

00:15:54.100 I think it's something that all of us would agree with.

00:15:55.920 We don't want to see grandma and grandpa put unnecessarily at risk.

00:16:00.280 But did it accomplish that?

00:16:01.760 I've never seen the evidence of that.

00:16:03.960 Or could there have been a better way than shutting down society,

00:16:07.440 costing the Canadian economy billions and billions upon dollars?

00:16:12.700 Was there a better way to protect the vulnerable?

00:16:15.300 That's the question.

00:16:16.640 Let's hope we manage to learn something from this.

00:16:19.100 And that's the biggest story.

00:16:20.060 Kind of ran out of time fast.

00:16:21.260 It always does when you come in.

00:16:22.860 And I appreciate it.

00:16:24.500 You know, I'm glad you could come in in this final week of the show.

00:16:26.680 I'm kind of running through a lot of our regulars.

00:16:28.440 I'll be talking to Drew as well and many others as we wrap things up here.

00:16:33.920 So, well, I've enjoyed every appearance on your show, Corey.

00:16:37.180 I enjoy the debate.

00:16:39.060 It's always respectful, even when we give her.

00:16:41.400 And you bring so much experience to the table.

00:16:43.640 I do appreciate that, you know, having been in there.

00:16:45.960 So, we'll be talking again.

00:16:47.500 I'll be doing other stuff.

00:16:48.480 We'll be doing shows, I'm sure.

00:16:49.820 Sounds good.

00:16:50.540 Well, good luck with whatever you undertake in the future.

00:16:53.860 I'm sure you'll do a bang-up job as you have of Triggered.

00:16:56.880 Thanks.

00:16:58.440 Thanks.

Western Standard - August 15, 2022

Former MP & Maverick Party leader Jay Hill on federal politics

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