Western Standard - January 13, 2021


Franco Terrazzano with the Canadian Taxpayers Federation


Episode Stats


Length

11 minutes

Words per minute

185.55798

Word count

2,120

Sentence count

76


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

A special broadcast with Franco Terrazano of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation discussing a release from a Freedom of Information request from the Alberta government on how much was spent on pay raises for government workers in 2019 and why it needs to stop.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 Thank you.
00:00:30.000 Thank you.
00:01:00.000 Hey, everybody. Welcome to a special broadcast just after our weekly live broadcast. I'm
00:01:13.040 chatting with Franco Terrizano, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. They put out a press
00:01:18.500 release today on some stuff they got from a FOIP request that is really worth talking
00:01:24.360 about in these tough times because we're just seeing so many areas of a double standard,
00:01:29.240 as the common folks are struggling and the not-so-common folks seem to be still benefiting and doing well.
00:01:36.040 So good to see you, Franco. Can you expand a bit on what you guys released today?
00:01:40.780 Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much first for having me on, Corey.
00:01:43.520 So we got Freedom of Information requests back from the Alberta government.
00:01:47.960 And, you know, 2020 has been really such a tough year.
00:01:51.460 But economically, it's clear that we're really not all in this together, right?
00:01:55.680 So we've had people who have lost their jobs, we've had people who have taken pay cuts, we've had businesses close down their doors, but we found more than 7,000 provincial government bureaucrats that received a raise in 2020, right? During the lockdowns, during the economic nosedive. And why that's so important is that that means families and businesses who are struggling are going to have to pay higher taxes for this, right? And, you know, we are struggling. We need relief. We don't need bigger bureaucrat salaries here in Alberta.
00:02:26.340 Yeah, well, at a time like this, we're all taking cuts.
00:02:29.560 We're tightening our belts.
00:02:30.580 I mean, at the very least, you'd think they would freeze salaries.
00:02:33.440 Yet, what were those numbers that was getting into some high millions there with a great
00:02:37.460 number of people getting some salary increases?
00:02:40.200 Well, the cost in 2020 for these pay raises for provincial bureaucrats was a little over
00:02:45.980 $18 million.
00:02:47.420 But really, that's just the tip of the iceberg, right?
00:02:49.240 Because that freedom of information request that we put in, we also asked for the cost
00:02:53.760 going back to 2015 for pay raises. And we found out that those costs are $245 million. So since
00:03:01.660 2015, when the downturn really began in Alberta, Alberta taxpayers have had to pay an extra $245
00:03:08.720 million for bureaucrat pay hikes in the provincial government. Yeah, and you would think with a,
00:03:16.180 I mean, the scaling down has got to come soon. I mean, we've, everything else is contracting,
00:03:22.440 We can't afford to keep increasing and increasing, not just the pay rates, but the numbers of these people.
00:03:28.140 Do you think there might be a willingness on the part finally, though, for some of these for the government to show the will to start cutting things?
00:03:35.600 And perhaps some of the union has to realize if we don't stop this excessive compensation for bureaucrats and some of these civil servants,
00:03:42.120 that we're going to have to start just outright laying them off eventually.
00:03:45.020 Well, I mean, Premier Jason Kenney has to tackle the labor costs here.
00:03:48.900 Right. So by the end of the year, we're looking at one hundred billion dollars in provincial government debt.
00:03:53.820 So the obvious question is, how are we going to pay for all of this?
00:03:56.420 And it's just it's not fair to be asking struggling families who are having a tough time just getting groceries on the table,
00:04:03.460 living from paycheck to paycheck or to go to small businesses and ask them to pay higher taxes because government bureaucrats and government union bosses don't want to take a pay hike.
00:04:12.940 Right. So just in terms of fairness, it's time for the provincial government.
00:04:16.460 it's time for kenny to cut back these costs but then we also have to look at the budget problem
00:04:20.620 you know i talk about that 100 billion dollars in debt that we're going to have to pay back well
00:04:25.140 you know the biggest expense the biggest day-to-day expense for the alberta government
00:04:28.980 is this labor costs so as a really premier kenny um our finance minister travis taves they have
00:04:34.300 very little option um to balance the budget if they're not willing to take some air out of these
00:04:39.900 ballooning labor costs yeah so we're getting a well we've seen a lot of it with the do as they
00:04:45.980 say, not as I do. And we'd really need to see some leadership by example. I mean, we've seen
00:04:51.180 that with the recent vacationing elected officials and staffers. And now, again, we're seeing it with
00:04:57.700 a different class of folks, but they're still enjoying job security, plus actual increases
00:05:04.060 in compensation at a time like this. So you guys have also been pushing for something that might
00:05:08.620 help spur our government to feel a little more inclined to listen to the electorate between
00:05:12.340 elections uh can you expand a bit on that yeah so i mean we're all we're all upset with this uh
00:05:18.100 this vacationing scandal right and we have every right to be upset here i mean these politicians
00:05:23.700 they they they lock down businesses uh people people's jobs might be at risk from that they ask
00:05:29.300 families to spend the holidays apart and then we find out these some politicians have been traveling
00:05:34.580 abroad and you know people are really upset but the key is how are we going to move forward with
00:05:38.820 this and at the kane taxpayers federation we think that this shows that we need recall legislation
00:05:44.340 in alberta right because right now we have to wait until 2023 to hold politicians accountable
00:05:49.700 and yeah sure um there was a cabinet minister that lost her position there and yes there was
00:05:54.660 some mlas who lost their committee positions but at the end of the day the real question is should
00:05:59.300 these mlas continue to be mlas and only albertans us voters only we have the right to make that
00:06:05.940 decision and the only way that we can make that decision unless we wait for 2023 is by having
00:06:11.300 recall well on a number of fronts i think we should have it i mean for one the ucp government
00:06:16.420 promised to give it to us so uh you know we kind of want it before the end of your term it really
00:06:21.140 doesn't mean anything uh in the same sense i could almost see this as a good time for
00:06:26.980 jason kenny and the ucp fine to give it to us because he's under a lot of pressure we've seen
00:06:30.740 with some Western Standard polling that Albertans want more done to these MLAs and elected officials
00:06:37.380 who've been vacationing while we're locked in our homes due to their legislation. This way,
00:06:43.220 in a sense, politically, he can hand it off. Say, well, it is up to Albertans. Here you go. Here's
00:06:46.720 the legislation. If it really is that odious, you can fire your elected official. But I don't know
00:06:54.180 if we're going to see that coming. It's a promise. They seem to have slid under the back burner. I
00:06:59.400 think even on their website they made the recall promise disappear well i mean this this whole
00:07:04.100 issue of how we deal with this should be up 12 birds right we shouldn't have to rely on backroom
00:07:09.240 political brokering um and it really goes back to the important principle of the people are supposed
00:07:14.220 to be the boss not the politicians and if the people are the boss then we should be able to
00:07:18.720 fire them when they misbehave and you brought up another really good point here and that's that
00:07:23.600 premier kenny when he was campaigning when he was trying to get her votes in 2019 he promised
00:07:27.900 recall legislation um and then again last year in its february 2020 throne speech the government
00:07:33.960 doubled down on that promise it promised recall legislation again and very importantly um it
00:07:39.360 promised recall legislation extended to the local level now i mean fortunately premier kenny has
00:07:44.840 recently said that they are going to be bringing forward recall legislation in the upcoming session
00:07:49.720 so we're going to keep holding their feet to the fire there but another thing that we all need to
00:07:53.520 watch out for is to make sure that we're actually able to use recall legislation right we need to
00:07:58.440 make sure that the thresholds they're not so onerous uh so to make it that nobody can actually
00:08:03.280 use this important tool yeah like when i was vp policy with the wild rose party we had recall
00:08:09.880 and we adjusted and worked a lot on that one because it is a complicated one i mean you don't
00:08:13.880 want to make it too easy because the day after the election suddenly you just got people from
00:08:17.760 the other party out there running and starting the process and you don't want to set the bar
00:08:22.400 so high that it's impossible. So it's a tough balance. But I mean, you know, finding a petition
00:08:27.860 level can be can be done. That's reasonable. I mean, you only want to invoke if people have if
00:08:33.020 they've done something so odious that we just can't wait two, three more years to get the chance
00:08:37.100 to replace these people. Some people say, oh, petitioning is easy. Well, no, not if you've
00:08:42.460 actually done it on the ground. Real petitions on a piece of paper. It is darn hard. A lot of people
00:08:46.820 don't want to put their name on it. And it would be tough in a time like this when we're not allowed
00:08:50.880 to go door to door so they certainly do have to make it achievable while not being too easy but
00:08:56.040 it's not like it's ground we haven't studied before they know how to do this they just need
00:08:59.820 the will well that's well that's right um and and so what it sounds like is going to be happening
00:09:05.400 again nothing's set in stone yet we're still waiting to actually see the legislation but it
00:09:09.540 sounds like it's going to be similar to british columbia so there's that 40 threshold there
00:09:13.880 and you know it is important to have to strike the right balance but the 40 threshold is is too
00:09:19.840 high and uh you know the canadian taxpayers federation we made a presentation to the alberta
00:09:24.800 government's democratic accountability committee and we stressed that it had the thresholds need
00:09:29.520 to be lower than 40 and we proposed a 25 threshold right and um so here's the key right bc has had
00:09:37.920 recall legislation since i believe 1995 um there's only been one successful recall campaign there and
00:09:44.800 And that's when they found out one of her MLAs was writing fake letters to the editor.
00:09:49.920 So they held them accountable there.
00:09:51.540 But there's only been one in B.C.
00:09:53.780 And one of those reasons is because a threshold is too high.
00:09:57.520 And, Corey, let me just make one more very important point about recall legislation, right?
00:10:01.720 It's more than just about being able to force a by-election because recall legislation, I mean, it doesn't take a Ph.D. in psychology for someone to realize that a politician is probably going to think twice
00:10:13.600 before they dip their hands into the taxpayer cookie jar if they have to face the voters tomorrow
00:10:19.020 rather than in four years. Yeah, there's a preventative aspect to it. I mean, we'd rather
00:10:25.460 not be recalling politicians all the time. We'd just like them to act like the rest of us in the
00:10:29.440 working world. If we screw up bad enough, we're going to get fired. It's a simple concept. As you
00:10:35.380 said, you don't need to be a psychiatrist or psychologist to figure that out. Well, I hope
00:10:40.360 keep that pressure up because another thing i could see is they're going to throw it to another
00:10:43.720 panel or another committee and death by committee like he's been doing with so many other aspects
00:10:47.720 of his election promises right now is getting a little frustrating for a lot of albertans so
00:10:51.720 hopefully you guys can keep holding their feet to the fire so they actually follow through on
00:10:54.840 that in this legislative session uh where can we find more information on what uh you and the
00:10:59.400 canadian taxpayers federation are up to these days oh well please uh please head over to taxpayer.com
00:11:04.840 and go to our newsroom tab that's where we're keeping all of our information there and it'll
00:11:09.880 give you some suggestions on what we're doing to hold our politicians accountable.
00:11:15.320 Great. Well, thank you very much, Franco. I'm looking forward to seeing you guys
00:11:18.600 keeping them accountable as much as we can with what we've got right now. And I'm sure
00:11:22.840 we'll be talking again soon. Yeah, sounds good to me. Thanks, Corey.