Western Standard - HANNAFORD： Get kids off their phones!

00:00:00.000 Good evening, Western Standard viewers, and welcome to Hannaford, a weekly politics show

00:00:22.020 of the Western Standard. It is Thursday, December the 4th. One of the clichés of our age is the

00:00:28.400 teenager focused on their cell phone to the exclusion of all else, including friends and

00:00:33.240 family. In fact, much of the time, they're not even teenagers. How often does mom's phone do

00:00:39.620 double duty as a babysitter? This can't be good, and there are people trying to do something about

00:00:46.480 it. Joining me today is Robin Shirk. She's a volunteer mom with Unplugged Canada, a movement

00:00:52.640 helping families prevent digital harm by delaying smartphones and supporting a social media age

00:00:59.900 minimum. Welcome to the show, Robin. Thanks for having me. Oh, glad to have you here. It's a bit

00:01:07.940 of an issue, isn't it? Robin, how bad can this be? When the kids are wrapped up in their phones,

00:01:13.680 they're not up to mischief anywhere else and turning over garbage cans in the back alleys.

00:01:18.100 So, why do we care? What's Unplugged Canada, and what is it that you are trying to accomplish?

00:01:24.120 Yeah. So, broadly, Unplugged Canada, it's a movement of parents across the country

00:01:28.660 that are really focused on preventing digital harm in children. We're doing that through local

00:01:35.100 support and helping parents delay giving their kids a smartphone if they choose to,

00:01:40.920 and also with national advocacy, asking for Canada to have a social media age minimum.

00:01:46.520 And all this is about protecting childhood and helping kids have a healthy, age-appropriate

00:01:53.420 development.

00:01:55.860 Now, look, every age has its own difficult things, right? And, you know, when I was 10 years old,

00:02:04.320 I was always in a book. And so, I'd get this disembodied voice coming from somewhere else in the house,

00:02:12.140 get out of the book and come and feel potatoes or go make your bed or something like that, you know.

00:02:18.020 So, 70 years ago, it was books. Today, it's a smartphone. Has anything really changed?

00:02:25.900 Yeah, I think I would, first of all, I'd separate smartphone from social media because there can be,

00:02:31.800 you know, there's differences there. And so, if I was thinking about the kids' interaction,

00:02:36.900 reading books or watching TV versus being on social media, those are just fundamentally different.

00:02:43.780 You know, we didn't know what we released, but when you look at social media now with the social

00:02:47.940 comparisons and the, you know, the predator outreach and the manipulation through the algorithms,

00:02:54.680 it really is creating this compulsive use and these mental health harms that have become quite clear

00:03:00.700 and just did not, you know, you did not see that happen when kids spent hours reading books or

00:03:06.200 watching television, for instance. So, we are seeing that this does feel quite different.

00:03:11.880 Do you have a, you know, an example of somebody's family where things went spectacularly wrong

00:03:18.760 and it was the smartphone that ultimately proved to be the problem?

00:03:22.720 Yeah, I think the hard thing is, is there's so many examples, it's hard to pick just one.

00:03:29.760 When you think of, you know, teenage girls in Canada today, 12% of all teenage girls show signs of addiction.

00:03:36.560 It's things like withdrawal, loss of control. So, I think that's what we found is...

00:03:41.380 Now, let me stop you there. When you're saying they're showing signs of addiction,

00:03:45.660 are you saying that they're addicted to their phones or that the phones make them addicted to something else?

00:03:51.160 Yes, drugs, whatever.

00:03:52.900 So, addicted to the social media app itself.

00:03:55.800 So, when you think about what social media is, it's designed to create this compulsive use,

00:04:00.800 to maximize your engagement, as they might call it.

00:04:03.840 And we see that. A third of teenage girls today, 31%, spend more than five hours a day on social media.

00:04:11.140 So, what about teenage boys? Are they part of the problem, too?

00:04:14.140 Me? So, teenage boys are impacted. They're impacted slightly differently.

00:04:18.020 So, they do show those compulsive rates. So, it's, I believe it's about one in five overall for teenagers,

00:04:25.120 have that compulsive use. But for teenage boys, some of the harms are a bit different as well.

00:04:30.900 They're more likely to be exposed to excessively violent content, for instance,

00:04:35.580 and groomed into, you know, some of those violent ideologies.

00:04:39.400 So, it's, you know, the harms are a little bit different between boys and girls, but they're both harmful. 0.85

00:04:44.020 Hmm. So, is this something that people grow out of?

00:04:49.860 You know, one thing that we've seen is when you have harms, like mental health challenges,

00:04:55.400 like depression or anxiety, is those can carry with you. Those can linger.

00:04:59.860 Same things if you see really explicit content that's terrifying to you or disturbing.

00:05:05.600 That lingers. Once you see that, you cannot unsee that.

00:05:08.340 So, in that way, I would say it lingers.

00:05:11.280 Yes. You can't unsee the death of Charlie Kirk, can you?

00:05:15.140 And I understand that's something a lot of kids go looking for, which is, you know, a frightening thought in its way.

00:05:22.440 All right. So, the kids have the phones.

00:05:25.980 Why does anybody give a 10-year-old a smartphone?

00:05:34.620 Yeah, I think, you know, there's smartphones and there's some of the harmful content that can come through unfettered access to the Internet.

00:05:41.000 So, if someone's going to give their child a phone, I understand you want to be able to message them.

00:05:46.840 Maybe you want them to be able to have a Mac to know where they're going.

00:05:50.380 And there's certain circumstances where you might need it for medical reasons as well.

00:05:54.580 And that's very understandable.

00:05:57.080 You know, we are seeing new types of phones come onto the market that don't have that unfettered access to the Internet,

00:06:03.200 but do let kids have access to the services they need.

00:06:05.900 So, for instance, Wyze Phone is one example, or Pinwheel, for instance.

00:06:10.940 So, I think it's reasonable for kids to want to be connected to their parents or to each other.

00:06:15.700 But it's this unfettered, unsupervised access to these age-inappropriate platforms in the Internet is really where we're focused.

00:06:23.940 Well, of course, you're always going to have a child who has the phone for the kind of valid reasons you've just talked about.

00:06:32.040 But then, in any group of a dozen kids, there's probably one whose parents see things differently,

00:06:37.860 and they can wander the Internet at will.

00:06:40.640 And you see this little cluster of children gathered around the one who's actually got the phone,

00:06:45.080 and they're all looking at something that intrigues and interests all of them and not necessarily in a good way.

00:06:51.380 So, is it enough to get parents to, like, how does your organization see extending this so that scenario doesn't occur?

00:07:04.820 Yeah.

00:07:05.300 So, we recognize this is a complex challenge that requires a lot of angles.

00:07:10.800 So, whether that's education in schools or just in the home, to be aware of the risks and the types of harms that can occur,

00:07:19.840 whether it's parent involvement and community support, helping parents group together and say,

00:07:24.860 you know, we'd like to delay giving our child this device until, you know, they're of the right age.

00:07:29.720 But that's also why we're focused on the national advocacy as well,

00:07:32.520 because there's some things that, you know, just are not age-appropriate for children.

00:07:37.180 Just as you agree, children shouldn't be going to nightclubs or driving or gambling in casinos,

00:07:43.400 there's some interactions online where the compulsive use design, the harms and the risks,

00:07:48.820 just, you know, warrant the same level of youth protections.

00:07:51.720 And I would put social media in that category.

00:07:55.060 So, that's why we're advocating for that, some of these, I'll call it national age minimums, 0.79

00:08:00.860 alongside the local community involvement and education awareness.

00:08:04.440 Sorry, national internodes, did you say?

00:08:08.740 Oh, national advocacy.

00:08:10.680 So, we're asking for Canada to have a social media age minimum,

00:08:15.220 keep up with, you know, proposals that are, you know, like the bipartisan Senate bill in the U.S. right now,

00:08:21.020 or the suggestions for the EU to have an EU-wide minimum.

00:08:24.880 So, you see our...

00:08:26.380 What age would you set, Vlad?

00:08:28.240 If somebody said, yep, that's the answer, you're on to a good thing,

00:08:32.160 we're going to say it should be at this age.

00:08:35.220 What would you recommend as the age when a child should be allowed to get onto the internet

00:08:41.400 and wander wherever they will?

00:08:42.680 Yeah, so I think it's really all about developmental readiness.

00:08:46.340 And what the research is showing right now is, for social media specifically,

00:08:52.360 girls are most vulnerable to harm around the ages of 11 to 13,

00:08:56.520 whereas boys are most vulnerable between ages of 13 to 15.

00:08:59.700 So, that's why you're seeing countries internationally set that age at 16,

00:09:03.120 and that's why we would recommend 16 as well,

00:09:05.380 is to make sure you're kind of past those most vulnerable years

00:09:09.160 before having these interactions.

00:09:10.560 I hate to be a naysayer, but...

00:09:16.240 And actually, I'm not.

00:09:17.160 I wish you all the luck in the world.

00:09:18.400 But do you think that it is going to fly?

00:09:22.980 I mean, there are going to be some people.

00:09:24.800 There's obviously an organization that you're working with,

00:09:28.520 and I'm going to ask you about that organization in just a moment.

00:09:32.840 But in any group of 100 parents,

00:09:36.380 you know that there are going to be some who say,

00:09:38.320 yep, we've got to keep the phones out of the hands of the children,

00:09:41.740 and then there'll be others who, for whatever reason,

00:09:44.820 and it may well be that they don't want the fight.

00:09:49.260 It may be nothing more than that, but they're not going to go with you.

00:09:51.700 And then you've got some who are on and some who are off,

00:09:54.060 and here's a whole new source of teenage tension.

00:09:57.740 What do you think?

00:09:58.680 What are your chances?

00:09:59.320 I think, well, I would separate the having a phone versus a social media age minimum.

00:10:05.740 For having a phone, you know, I'd support every family and where they're at,

00:10:08.600 and I recognize there's different circumstances there.

00:10:11.560 So you're right.

00:10:12.600 You're never going to have consensus on how families want to approach that.

00:10:16.120 They should have differences.

00:10:18.060 Now, for a national age minimum for social media,

00:10:21.340 that actually has widespread support.

00:10:24.620 You know, Ipsos, you know, a polling firm,

00:10:27.840 actually surveyed 30 countries around the world, including Canada,

00:10:31.080 and they found that the majority of people in every country they surveyed

00:10:35.040 supported an age minimum, a government-enforced strong age minimum.

00:10:39.560 And among parents, you know, that support was three in four,

00:10:42.760 it was the majority.

00:10:44.400 You used one of the buzzwords that gets us alarmed,

00:10:48.060 and that is government enforcement.

00:10:49.800 What do you think the government could or should do about this?

00:10:56.560 You know, just like how we don't let kids buy cigarettes

00:11:01.120 or buy alcohol or gambling casinos, it's the same way.

00:11:05.300 It's putting the responsibility on the platform

00:11:07.520 to have some sort of age assurance.

00:11:11.180 And to be clear, that does not require a government ID.

00:11:15.220 If you look at what they did in the UK

00:11:17.880 when they implemented, you know, age enforcement

00:11:20.860 for going to explicit sites like pornography sites,

00:11:24.240 there they found there's multiple ways

00:11:25.780 you could verify someone is of age

00:11:28.020 without needing a government ID.

00:11:30.480 For example, using a $0 charge on a credit card

00:11:33.700 or sharing an email.

00:11:35.640 And if that email address has existed for so long,

00:11:37.820 you know that digital footprint

00:11:39.660 means that person is obviously of age.

00:11:41.380 So there's multiple ways to do this

00:11:44.720 that are very privacy-preserving.

00:11:47.020 And I think the owner should be on the platform.

00:11:49.680 It's not on the person.

00:11:51.340 And what I'd say is it was just this past summer

00:11:53.540 that Canada itself launched a new national standard

00:11:57.420 for age assurance technology.

00:11:59.040 So we have the framework in place now

00:12:00.600 in a way that we just didn't a couple of years ago.

00:12:03.020 So we have, you know, we have the guardrails,

00:12:05.820 we have the design,

00:12:06.480 and we've seen it rolled out in other industries

00:12:08.240 and other countries to know that it can be done

00:12:10.240 safely and effectively

00:12:11.820 without having to, you know, share too much information.

00:12:16.040 You were describing a technology that we have

00:12:18.760 that works in other circumstances

00:12:22.120 that can be made to work

00:12:23.680 for vetifying the age of children

00:12:28.720 so that they're not on the internet.

00:12:32.480 What is that?

00:12:33.840 Can you describe that again, please?

00:12:35.600 Yeah, so it's called age assurance technology.

00:12:38.240 And what that means is, you know,

00:12:41.240 you're not checking a specific ID,

00:12:43.660 but you have other ways that you can validate

00:12:45.740 someone is of age.

00:12:47.420 So, you know, there's multiple ways that can be done.

00:12:49.920 You're seeing that being used in the UK right now

00:12:53.200 for, you know, for their explicit sites

00:12:56.080 and the age checks there,

00:12:57.960 or in Australia for joining a social media account.

00:13:01.220 So they're explicitly say,

00:13:02.280 you do not need to use a government ID

00:13:04.200 in order to have your age validated.

00:13:06.120 So...

00:13:07.120 So the child would be trying to log onto a site

00:13:12.720 and it would just give them a blank screen

00:13:16.160 or, you know, sorry, you're not verified

00:13:18.580 or something like that.

00:13:19.500 Is that what this would look like?

00:13:21.640 Yeah.

00:13:21.940 So it would block you at the account setup level

00:13:24.500 so you could see the links from the site,

00:13:26.380 but you wouldn't be able to make your own profile.

00:13:28.120 And making your own profile,

00:13:30.600 that's the reason why that matters

00:13:32.480 is when you have your own profile,

00:13:34.220 that's when predators can reach out to you.

00:13:36.180 That's when you can have those social comparisons,

00:13:37.980 you know, tracking the likes, all of those things.

00:13:41.780 And it also lets the algorithm really collect your data

00:13:44.380 and lock into you and become more addictive

00:13:46.600 because you're sharing so much information

00:13:49.200 and it can trace it all back to you.

00:13:50.940 So it's this idea that you should be,

00:13:53.600 you know, of an age to consent

00:13:56.240 to sharing all that data

00:13:57.440 and consent to understanding

00:13:58.900 how you're being manipulated

00:13:59.940 before you're put in that circumstance.

00:14:02.720 How exactly are children being manipulated?

00:14:05.700 What are the levers that get pulled?

00:14:08.200 Yeah.

00:14:08.620 So there's what I'll call content rewards

00:14:11.000 and social rewards.

00:14:12.560 So the manipulation on the content front

00:14:14.760 is that's the algorithmic feed,

00:14:17.560 feeding your content to keep you engaged.

00:14:20.080 And the more emotionally charged that content is

00:14:22.800 and the more kind of, you know,

00:14:24.780 wow, attention getting that content is

00:14:27.180 and the more likely you are to stay hooked.

00:14:28.980 It's almost like pulling a gambling lever

00:14:31.140 to see, you know, a slot machine lever

00:14:32.860 to see what pops up.

00:14:35.380 So that's the emotional manipulation there

00:14:38.240 is it can put you in-

00:14:39.440 And this ultimately is about

00:14:40.560 selling product to children, right?

00:14:42.480 This has got the cash.

00:14:44.760 Yeah, exactly.

00:14:46.580 These are ad serve platforms.

00:14:47.920 Their entire design is to sell,

00:14:50.020 you know, to sell advertisements

00:14:51.360 and keep you on there longer

00:14:52.920 to be able to sell more advertisements to you.

00:14:55.440 So whether it's, you know,

00:14:57.520 manipulating the content

00:14:58.600 to try and hook your emotions

00:14:59.780 and keep you there longer

00:15:00.960 or the social work,

00:15:02.500 looking at the number of likes

00:15:04.320 or followers or comments

00:15:05.700 on different types of content

00:15:07.600 that you're interested in.

00:15:09.140 All in those notifications as well,

00:15:11.640 you know, someone telling you to come back in.

00:15:13.400 All of those things are designed

00:15:14.920 to catch and hook your attention.

00:15:17.460 And for adults, you know, that's fine.

00:15:19.080 We have the impulse controls

00:15:20.380 and the critical thinking skills developed.

00:15:22.720 But for young children,

00:15:23.760 they haven't developed that yet.

00:15:24.920 So it's really preying

00:15:25.920 on some of their vulnerabilities

00:15:27.380 and just, you know,

00:15:29.980 they just haven't had

00:15:30.880 the developmental maturity

00:15:31.880 to be able to handle these situations

00:15:34.660 the way that adults can.

00:15:36.660 Okay. Tell me a little bit

00:15:37.820 about your organization.

00:15:39.100 How long have you been around

00:15:40.080 and what kind of pickup are you getting?

00:15:42.300 And then I want to take you

00:15:43.440 to the petition

00:15:44.840 that you're asking people to sign.

00:15:46.860 So first, what about your organization?

00:15:48.980 So Unplug Canada,

00:15:50.420 it was officially formed last year

00:15:53.080 and it was formed by Jenny Perez

00:15:55.140 out of Vancouver.

00:15:56.560 And what it is,

00:15:57.700 is it's a group of volunteers

00:15:59.580 across the country.

00:16:01.040 So we've got chapters

00:16:01.900 from Nanaimo to Nova Scotia

00:16:04.300 and we're focused

00:16:05.640 on preventing digital harm in kids.

00:16:07.440 And that's through supporting families

00:16:09.020 in our local communities

00:16:10.020 if they do choose

00:16:11.640 to want to delay getting

00:16:12.580 their child a smartphone.

00:16:13.860 It's to help parents band together

00:16:15.260 and alleviate that peer pressure

00:16:16.860 to have one

00:16:17.480 until they feel that their kids

00:16:19.500 are of age to be able to handle that.

00:16:22.080 And then the other piece

00:16:24.580 is the national advocacy.

00:16:26.320 And this is the piece

00:16:27.520 that is asking the government

00:16:29.120 to put in a social media age minimum

00:16:31.000 of 16

00:16:32.160 and also have stronger

00:16:33.720 use data privacy rights

00:16:35.140 for under the age of 18.

00:16:36.720 So once they are old enough

00:16:38.180 to be on these platforms,

00:16:39.220 these companies are not allowed

00:16:41.080 to monetize

00:16:41.940 and share

00:16:42.600 and sell their data

00:16:43.540 until these kids

00:16:44.580 are old enough

00:16:45.500 to recognize

00:16:46.160 what they're giving away.

00:16:48.160 Now you had a,

00:16:49.220 you did,

00:16:49.880 you have already presented

00:16:51.000 a petition

00:16:51.840 to the federal government

00:16:53.620 on this matter.

00:16:54.980 We have.

00:16:56.860 Is there any further possibility

00:16:59.280 for people to engage

00:17:01.060 by signing another one?

00:17:04.040 Absolutely.

00:17:04.860 I think in terms of engaging,

00:17:06.740 I would encourage folks

00:17:08.300 to sign the call to action

00:17:09.360 on unpluggedcanada.com

00:17:11.380 and also the direct participation.

00:17:14.360 Writing a letter to your MP

00:17:16.080 and saying that you would want

00:17:17.600 to have these child protections

00:17:19.140 put in place.

00:17:20.800 We've been talking

00:17:21.880 with dozens of MPs

00:17:23.260 across the country

00:17:24.100 and I've been to Ottawa

00:17:25.880 three times in the last month

00:17:27.100 back and forth for meetings.

00:17:28.760 So it is gaining

00:17:30.060 incredible momentum

00:17:31.000 and we're gaining cross-party,

00:17:33.600 multi-party support as well.

00:17:34.980 I noticed you got a response

00:17:37.160 to your first petition

00:17:39.100 from Mr. Gilbo.

00:17:42.000 He was, you know,

00:17:44.180 one of the liberal ministers.

00:17:46.880 He was one of the liberal ministers.

00:17:48.760 He's resigned now.

00:17:50.320 But there's not a lot

00:17:52.220 of common ground

00:17:53.200 that we find with Mr. Gilbo

00:17:54.880 here at Western Standard.

00:17:57.760 How did you rate his response

00:18:00.500 to the petition

00:18:01.860 when he received it?

00:18:03.120 You know, I always know

00:18:05.640 that tabling a petition

00:18:06.760 is, that's the start.

00:18:08.860 That's not the finish

00:18:09.560 of this effort.

00:18:11.100 So, yeah, getting the attention

00:18:13.260 of the government

00:18:14.060 is important.

00:18:15.620 And, you know,

00:18:17.140 moving forward

00:18:17.920 with multi-party legislation

00:18:19.660 to prevent harm to children

00:18:21.600 and protect children,

00:18:23.000 I think everyone wants

00:18:24.000 to see that happen.

00:18:25.020 And we certainly do as well.

00:18:26.940 So, you know,

00:18:27.920 his response was a bit broader

00:18:29.200 and it referenced several pieces

00:18:30.480 of legislation.

00:18:32.980 But I want to see action today.

00:18:34.760 I don't want to wait.

00:18:35.920 So, that would be,

00:18:37.080 that would be my response

00:18:38.020 is I want to see us move yesterday.

00:18:40.760 So, let's see what we can do here.

00:18:42.660 Right.

00:18:43.340 Well, you know,

00:18:44.060 I took a look at his response

00:18:45.920 and yours was a very,

00:18:48.440 it's a very particular concern

00:18:50.420 and you have

00:18:51.080 the keeping younger children

00:18:53.920 off social media.

00:18:57.020 He took the opportunity

00:18:58.920 to explain all about Bill C-9,

00:19:03.920 which they couch

00:19:05.400 in terms of protecting children.

00:19:07.320 So, it wasn't completely off topic.

00:19:09.520 But it's also a bill

00:19:11.360 that is about to be used,

00:19:14.240 it seems,

00:19:15.240 the reports indicate that,

00:19:17.380 to restrict religious freedom as well.

00:19:20.420 I won't ask you to comment

00:19:21.660 on that specifically,

00:19:23.080 but, you know,

00:19:24.480 how confident do you really feel

00:19:26.340 that Heritage Canada,

00:19:29.640 which is the agency you're addressing,

00:19:32.920 understands what you're talking about

00:19:35.320 as opposed to using you

00:19:37.060 as an excuse to talk about

00:19:38.680 what they want to talk about?

00:19:41.100 Yeah.

00:19:41.760 I think to answer that broadly,

00:19:43.980 I have no interest

00:19:45.000 in watching my kids

00:19:45.860 be held hostage.

00:19:47.280 I want to see legislation

00:19:48.460 to prevent harm

00:19:49.960 and protect my children.

00:19:51.700 And I think we need

00:19:53.100 to focus on elements

00:19:54.840 that have multi-party support

00:19:56.580 that can get passed quickly.

00:19:58.800 And so, that's really

00:19:59.740 where I'm emphasizing

00:20:00.540 and that's where I would focus.

00:20:03.140 Yes, you can talk about

00:20:04.400 broader initiatives

00:20:05.240 and broader efforts.

00:20:06.760 And, you know,

00:20:07.480 I'm not going to comment on that

00:20:08.920 because where I'm really focused on

00:20:11.120 and where my effort is

00:20:12.600 is on getting

00:20:13.420 a social media age mineral.

00:20:14.820 And this is a targeted ask.

00:20:17.160 It has multi-party support

00:20:18.560 and I see no reason to delay it.

00:20:21.780 Have you had any

00:20:22.340 face-to-face discussions

00:20:24.060 with government officials

00:20:25.140 on this yet?

00:20:26.440 Member of Parliament

00:20:27.420 or somebody within

00:20:29.100 Heritage Canada, perhaps?

00:20:30.580 I have.

00:20:31.260 Yeah, I did.

00:20:31.840 I did get to talk quickly

00:20:33.340 with Global as well.

00:20:34.880 But I did talk,

00:20:36.440 I have talked

00:20:37.280 with four different

00:20:38.040 ministers' offices so far.

00:20:39.900 And as I mentioned,

00:20:41.540 a couple dozen MPs

00:20:43.280 and I've met senators as well.

00:20:44.800 So, we are seeing

00:20:46.380 a lot of traction

00:20:47.200 and a lot of movement.

00:20:48.740 And I do think

00:20:49.620 we can make this happen,

00:20:50.700 but we just have to show

00:20:52.140 that this is what Canadians want.

00:20:54.460 And we see it

00:20:55.000 in the polling numbers,

00:20:56.080 but emailing your MP

00:20:57.400 to ask for this

00:20:58.340 is really important

00:20:59.740 to show that broad

00:21:00.960 national support.

00:21:02.240 Mm-hmm.

00:21:02.860 Okay.

00:21:03.420 How many,

00:21:04.080 this is the last question,

00:21:05.640 we're almost out of time.

00:21:07.160 I'm sorry,

00:21:07.640 but how many parents

00:21:10.300 have responded so far

00:21:12.440 and actually signed

00:21:14.220 the petition?

00:21:15.860 Yeah.

00:21:16.340 So, what I would say is,

00:21:17.460 so the petition

00:21:18.000 was only open for 30 days

00:21:19.360 and it was a paper one.

00:21:20.860 That was always kind of symbolic

00:21:22.200 to get this piece going.

00:21:24.000 So, what I would really focus on

00:21:25.620 is the polling numbers.

00:21:27.180 It doesn't matter

00:21:27.660 what poll you look at,

00:21:29.520 the vast majority

00:21:30.600 of Canadians want this.

00:21:32.200 How big is vast?

00:21:33.680 70%, 80%?

00:21:35.880 80%.

00:21:36.520 So, 81% said

00:21:38.000 they want to see

00:21:38.520 a government-enforced age minimum

00:21:40.220 for joining social media.

00:21:43.640 And, you know,

00:21:44.320 there's different polls

00:21:45.500 asked different age numbers.

00:21:47.080 There was one that said

00:21:48.580 84% of Canadians

00:21:50.700 agreed that kids

00:21:51.420 should be 16% to join.

00:21:53.500 But when you looked at,

00:21:54.680 you know,

00:21:55.000 the Quebec Select Committee report,

00:21:57.240 it had 90% agreement

00:21:58.480 in their consultation,

00:22:00.380 including 70%,

00:22:01.680 76% agreement

00:22:03.320 among teenagers.

00:22:04.240 So, we see Canadians want this 0.95

00:22:06.500 and even teens want this.

00:22:08.080 They, you know,

00:22:09.700 we're finding a lot of folks

00:22:10.700 join because their peers

00:22:11.680 are on it

00:22:12.020 and they don't want

00:22:12.480 to be excluded,

00:22:13.180 but that doesn't mean

00:22:14.160 they want to be fed

00:22:14.820 all this other stuff

00:22:15.620 and get all this content

00:22:16.820 that can be quite excluded.

00:22:18.200 It's very interesting

00:22:18.880 because I hear informally

00:22:21.360 from people

00:22:22.060 who have younger children

00:22:24.940 that kids aren't necessarily

00:22:27.840 as into it today

00:22:29.900 as they were even a year ago.

00:22:32.660 And anecdotally,

00:22:34.720 you seem to be saying

00:22:36.200 the same thing.

00:22:38.040 Yeah, I think

00:22:38.600 you're seeing kids

00:22:39.960 are starting to recognize

00:22:40.760 the harms.

00:22:42.100 We saw that

00:22:42.920 when we went out

00:22:43.720 collecting petition signatures

00:22:45.440 for the petition we had.

00:22:48.140 What surprised me the most,

00:22:49.700 it was like the 18,

00:22:50.940 19, 20-year-olds

00:22:52.040 were the ones

00:22:52.960 that would take the pen

00:22:53.680 out of her hand

00:22:54.240 and just start signing

00:22:55.080 and then start sharing

00:22:56.020 their short stories

00:22:56.920 of what had happened

00:22:57.620 to their friend,

00:22:58.260 what had happened to them,

00:22:59.620 what they had seen.

00:23:01.080 So, yes,

00:23:02.040 I think kids

00:23:02.800 that have been through it

00:23:03.800 and have had experiences

00:23:05.360 realize, you know,

00:23:06.880 maybe you shouldn't be

00:23:08.080 giving that

00:23:08.420 to middle school students.

00:23:09.380 Robyn,

00:23:11.520 we are out of time,

00:23:13.380 but I must say

00:23:14.600 that I really find myself

00:23:16.100 in 100% sympathy

00:23:17.760 with the aims

00:23:18.380 of your organization.

00:23:19.640 That's Unplugged Canada.

00:23:21.220 If anybody wants

00:23:22.380 to get in contact

00:23:24.020 with you,

00:23:24.560 how would they do that?

00:23:26.240 Yeah, I would

00:23:27.160 go to Unplugged Canada.

00:23:28.980 You can contact

00:23:29.820 the email there

00:23:30.520 or it's robyn

00:23:31.340 at unpluggedcanada.com

00:23:32.880 as well.

00:23:33.560 Using your smartphone,

00:23:34.680 of course.

00:23:35.920 You know,

00:23:37.040 there's a lot of good

00:23:38.220 that comes from

00:23:38.760 these devices.

00:23:39.380 It just has to be

00:23:40.260 an age-

00:23:40.580 It just has to be

00:23:41.280 channeled,

00:23:41.720 doesn't it?

00:23:42.320 Yeah, I'm so with you.

00:23:44.140 Robyn Schirk,

00:23:45.300 volunteer with

00:23:46.740 Unplugged Canada

00:23:47.660 talking about

00:23:48.800 trying to take

00:23:50.720 our kids back

00:23:51.560 out of the grip

00:23:52.680 of the smartphone

00:23:54.840 social media revolution

00:23:57.100 that's taken us

00:23:57.900 over in the last decade.

00:23:59.800 Robyn,

00:24:00.240 thank you very much

00:24:00.960 for being with us.

00:24:01.780 It's been a pleasure

00:24:02.180 to have you.

00:24:03.300 Yeah, thanks for having me.

00:24:04.660 Appreciate it.

00:24:05.440 For the Western Standard,

00:24:06.600 I'm Nigel Hannaford.

00:24:08.200 Thank you.

00:24:13.480 Thank you.

00:24:16.240 Thank you.

00:24:17.300 Thank you.

00:24:17.600 you

Western Standard - December 10, 2025

HANNAFORD： Get kids off their phones!

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