Western Standard - HANNAFORD： Hard to believe but the Trudeau Liberals are actually at war with free speech

00:00:00.000 good evening western standard viewers i'm nigel hanaford and welcome to the hanaford show

00:00:22.880 With me today is David Lees. David is a vice president at the Frontier Center for Public Policy.

00:00:32.520 They're based out of Winnipeg, a long-time organization doing quality research on issues relating to government and public policy.

00:00:42.440 In Western liberal democracies, we are so anxious to make sure that minorities are not victimized by majorities

00:00:48.880 majorities that we have human rights commissions so that there is a place of redress for those who

00:00:54.280 feel they've been unfairly discriminated against. So you would think that respect and fair treatment

00:00:59.840 for everybody went both ways, but maybe it doesn't. Canada's liberal government is a desperate attempt

00:01:07.540 to distract Canadians from their disastrous ministry of setting up funds to encourage

00:01:13.700 Canadians to snitch on their neighbors. David, I know you have some thoughts on this. Welcome to

00:01:19.940 the program. It's great to see you, Nigel. It's good to have you here. David, a year before the

00:01:29.080 election, they've just put up $273 million as a fund for people who can complain about their

00:01:40.360 neighbors if they think they're haters. I didn't think that there were that many haters left in

00:01:45.000 Canada. There may have been once, but we seem to be a pretty fair-minded group of people these days.

00:01:51.440 Are there cross-burnings in Winnipeg? You know, not that I'm aware of. I do know that there are

00:01:58.080 hate-filled acts going on in this country, but I dare to say not in the same way that this

00:02:04.980 government wants to portray and announce the issues of hate across this country. So it's a

00:02:10.200 very dark day for our country, quite frankly, as they set up what I believe is a mechanism,

00:02:17.720 a tool, even a weapon to basically hold up a particular narrative of hate, I would say,

00:02:25.100 really through kind of a Marxist lens, where it's about identity politics. It's about

00:02:31.840 identifying groups that are part of your constituency and mobilizing them so that they

00:02:38.220 can actually fine penalize and put in jail those that disagree with them now okay let's who can

00:02:49.600 you give me some examples of the kind of people who are actually receiving this money and what

00:02:54.080 they do with it well i think you have to look at the the whole spectrum here but you basically have

00:03:00.360 a variety of groups that they are generously funding by the taxpayer to basically create a

00:03:07.320 coalition combined with other acts such as the so-called Online Harms Act, Bill C-6-3.

00:03:15.200 These are all very powerful ways to basically assault not only the rule of law, but freedom

00:03:21.540 of speech. And they're funding it through a number of groups, one of which is, of course,

00:03:27.200 the Anti-Race Foundation, the Race Relations Foundation of Canada. They're bringing that

00:03:35.360 together with two other interesting bodies, and that would be police forces, particularly the RCMP,

00:03:42.960 as well as Stats Canada, as they, of course, redefine what hate means in this country

00:03:48.860 to ones where people feel victimized or somehow feel offended. So I think these are huge red

00:03:56.760 flags as this story unfolds this is a dark day for this country as we look at how this government is

00:04:04.600 funding and facilitating in my humble opinion a policy initiative that's really about upholding

00:04:11.240 their narrative and systematically narrowing down the sense of freedom of speech and of course

00:04:19.800 of course, changing the rule and application of law.

00:04:24.680 So who are the people, like can you name the kinds of people who are actually running afoul

00:04:32.860 of this new legislation and the grants that support these little self-appointed militia

00:04:39.800 groups?

00:04:40.380 I guess militia is not a particularly good word, but you know, little groups, we can

00:04:45.200 find the haters for you, just give us the money.

00:04:47.280 And they put in their application to Heritage Canada and they get $150,000 or more and start producing reports.

00:04:57.220 So who are they reporting on?

00:04:58.640 I don't know that there are that many Aryan Nations compounds left to go report on. 1.00

00:05:05.340 Well, it's a very good question, Nigel. 0.87

00:05:07.660 I think what you have is kind of the usual suspects in the sense that you have a coalition of groups that do uphold the narrative that our country, Canada, is a hopefully systematically racist nation, that we need to identify people on their tribe based on their skin color or their sexual orientation.

00:05:31.580 And what is interesting is that they seem to be going about this in phases.

00:05:35.740 So they're identifying a variety of partners that, or sorry, pardon me, they're identifying a variety of parties that offend their sensibilities around key narratives.

00:05:48.440 So for example, you have the so-called residential school denialists, you have parties that dare to disagree that somehow residential schools were not simply akin to Nazi death camps, and there were a myriad of mass graves, and as we know, there has not been evidence to suggest that there are mass graves.

00:06:12.520 um and so i think you have something more profound going on as well you have um an effort really to

00:06:20.840 take on anyone that would question this so-called diversity equity and inclusion narrative and that

00:06:28.080 that as you know is is very much a based on a marxist uh cultural ideology where um there's a

00:06:36.740 endless drumbeat of oppressor versus the oppressed. And in this case, anyone who would

00:06:42.980 dare question that narrative then is going to be positioned to be able to be sought after,

00:06:49.760 complained about through a very interesting process. My sense is that they're not going

00:06:55.560 to be going after people through the regular court system, but rather through human rights

00:07:00.280 tribunals. And of course, we know that the application of the law then is not the same

00:07:06.960 as our larger court system. So it's really been, it's a kind of a typical playbook that we see

00:07:14.960 through human history of totalitarian regimes demonizing their ideological opponents,

00:07:22.280 separating them out, and then eventually persecuting them in the form of legal action

00:07:27.240 or public humiliation and basically weaponizing the law against your ideological opponent.

00:07:36.040 Yeah, but David, what you're describing is the kind of thing that happened in the French Revolution

00:07:40.500 or in the Russian Revolution or in Nazi Germany.

00:07:45.180 Surely you're not proposing that the government of Canada is using the same kind of techniques

00:07:53.060 as these very admittedly authoritarian and cruel regimes?

00:08:00.140 Well, quite frankly, I am.

00:08:02.440 I believe that from a policy historical point of view,

00:08:05.580 it's the same playbook to basically demonize and villainize a party.

00:08:11.460 So when they talk about an anti-hate initiative,

00:08:15.180 the irony is that this is not about anti-hate.

00:08:18.400 It's actually about creating hate and resentment towards those who are truth seekers.

00:08:25.600 One of the incredible strengths of our country and our Anglo-Saxon tradition is one of truth seeking.

00:08:33.880 Now, we're not the only parties in the world that have that tradition, but we're one of the few.

00:08:40.320 And this ability to find truth is an extraordinary strength.

00:08:44.000 And in order to do that, we need freedom of speech.

00:08:46.320 we need to be able to have vigorous discussions and debates about what really is the evidence

00:08:51.900 regarding an issue. But in that spirit, though, these people are totally foreign to that

00:08:58.580 assumption. And I think if they were not, they would actually be emphasizing in this

00:09:05.720 recent announcement, a so-called anti-hate initiative, great care and attention to the

00:09:12.020 importance of facts and evidence and rule of law and healthy discussion. They seek to undermine

00:09:17.380 healthy discussion that has allowed us to be a successful free and democratic society.

00:09:23.680 Now, we talk about hate, and we have, I think most people, when they hear the word hate,

00:09:31.260 have a certain image in mind. I mean, I've referred to Aryan nations, cross burnings, 1.00

00:09:36.840 and things like that, I actually went on to the website of one of these organizations

00:09:42.600 that's received more than $600,000 in federal funding to report on hate in their community.

00:09:50.420 And I found that one of the things they were concerned about was the recent American film,

00:09:56.600 Am I a Racist, had been playing in theaters near them.

00:10:00.740 They thought that was hateful.

00:10:01.860 they also drew to attention that there was a nice young couple who were concerned about

00:10:08.420 educational policy and especially as regards to the what was taught in the classroom about

00:10:14.460 trans ideology to quite young children and they were running for school board and in order to

00:10:21.520 have their say on that in an appropriate forum and they were labeled as haters so on the other

00:10:27.580 hand, I have seen nothing about the hate of, for example, a Jewish community in Toronto being

00:10:36.720 swarmed by a hostile pro-Gaza, anti-Israel crowd. So how do the, you know, where is the hate and

00:10:47.120 what is the distinction when it comes to funding these groups? Does anybody care about what

00:10:57.120 obviously is truly hateful. You know, that's the irony, Nigel, is what you see is a effort

00:11:04.540 to define hate on their terms that clearly supports their narrative. So if you see acts

00:11:12.900 of anti-Semitism, most likely they will turn a blind eye to that because it does not fit within

00:11:19.240 their narrative, their political coalition, if you will. So what you have is the irony that you

00:11:25.240 have time and time again, all kinds of examples of hate. Let's take, for instance, as well,

00:11:32.520 Nigel, the burning of some 100 Christian churches right across this country. And in almost all

00:11:39.140 cases, we still do not have a sense of how the perpetrators are being prosecuted or investigated.

00:11:47.520 You have a kind of a double standard of the application of the law. And so this is, again,

00:11:55.240 begs worrisome questions about how this type of initiative will actually be used to just simply

00:12:02.560 go after parties that do fit their narrative, based on reality or not. But it's a way to weaponize

00:12:12.680 the rule of law against their political opponents. So on one hand, this is driven by ideology,

00:12:18.120 I would argue, but it's also driven by cynical application of identity politics.

00:12:23.180 Has any government of Canada ever actively gone after a section of its own population in order to divert attention from other things that they may be doing that wouldn't be so popular?

00:12:38.480 You know, I can think of many examples, as you full well know, Nigel, where governments have sought to change the channel to kind of draw attention to something that is not working, but not in this regard.

00:12:54.420 I think this is a very concerning development in our society.

00:12:59.060 Canadians are drawn together in unity based on the principle that we are citizens of this great country,

00:13:05.360 not because of the color of our skin or our sexual orientation,

00:13:10.460 but because of our shared commitment to principles that allow for the rights and freedoms of individuals

00:13:17.600 and our constitutional tradition.

00:13:21.380 And so this is a great deviation from that.

00:13:24.000 I mean, this is a very disturbing, dark day for our country when we make announcements

00:13:30.000 and fund hundreds of millions of dollars towards this entirely alien tradition of the rule

00:13:37.000 of law and freedom of speech.

00:13:38.860 I don't want to belabor the point, because I think you've made it very well several times

00:13:44.080 already, but we really are looking at something new, that this is not the liberal party that

00:13:53.300 We used to know.

00:13:54.860 I mean, many of us had our differences with the Liberal Party as it operated under Paul Martin and Jean Chrétien and back to Pierre Trudeau.

00:14:06.240 But this kind of assault on free speech that you are describing, in which the government funds are actually given to people to be snitches, to actually go out and to find what they think is hateful.

00:14:26.740 And, of course, to then discover that what they think is hateful is to most people probably a reasonable discussion on a point of principle and not actually hate at all in the conventional system.

00:14:39.920 And yet, when you do confront, when you do find real hate going on, and we're using the example of the invasion of Jewish neighborhoods in Toronto by hostile crowds, good Lord, I mean, if that was a group of skinheads invading the same neighborhoods, there probably would be instant action.

00:15:03.120 But because it's a pro-Gaza crowd, not much happens.

00:15:07.240 I don't think anything happens. 0.89

00:15:09.300 So, as I said, I'm belaboring the point

00:15:12.800 because I think there really is something new and different

00:15:16.840 that has come up in the nine years of the tenure by this government.

00:15:24.780 Do you think I'm putting it too strongly?

00:15:27.840 No, not at all.

00:15:28.680 In fact, I would say it has a significant history going back

00:15:34.420 and certainly the world of academe of so-called grievance studies

00:15:38.200 that all see the world through this world of oppressor versus the oppressed.

00:15:44.960 And now, finally, this is coming into public force and visibility now,

00:15:50.600 and that's something new now.

00:15:52.620 I would frankly never believe we would see the day, Nigel,

00:15:56.880 as someone who's observed this and studied this for decades, really,

00:16:01.780 that we would see a day where grievance studies like this

00:16:04.540 would somehow have any credible following as a public policy maker.

00:16:09.760 This is something new, and this is very disturbing.

00:16:12.920 But it is not new in the context of totalitarian regimes in history,

00:16:17.440 whether it's Maoist China, whether it's the Soviet Union.

00:16:22.260 These are very important lessons to pay attention to.

00:16:25.320 And again, it's the same type of methodology,

00:16:28.560 where there's a demonization of different parties

00:16:32.580 who dare to disagree with the narrative that different persons in power wish to uphold and

00:16:37.880 manipulate, and then it's the separation and ultimately the persecution in its different forms.

00:16:44.080 Do they believe their own rhetoric, or is this an entirely cynical use of the force of government

00:16:53.180 in order to establish the narrative of a ruling party in a hope of just continuing and extending

00:17:00.880 its rule. Do they really actually believe this? You know, it's a brilliant question, Nigel. I

00:17:07.040 think we all wonder this regularly, but I think it's both. I think you have parties who really

00:17:13.280 do believe that Canada is irredeemably racist systematically, and that it is a country filled 0.89

00:17:21.900 with, quote, white supremacists and all the rest, which of course we all know it isn't. Canada is 0.98

00:17:28.540 filled with people who are unified and proud of their history. They don't believe it's perfect,

00:17:33.400 but they do know that racism has no place in our country. But what we see also is the application

00:17:40.460 of cynical power politics. And I think that this is a situation where you have announcements being

00:17:47.720 made that appears to be credible public policy, when in fact, I would argue that it isn't.

00:17:52.960 It's self-serving, and it's been serving towards a particular set of special interests who want to do the proxy or the bidding as third parties on behalf of the government who wishes to promote this type of narrative.

00:18:08.600 Why? I think all in terms of a run-up to an election where a lot of the policies that they pursued, and I think you've alluded to this, Nigel, are not sadly working.

00:18:19.020 I mean, they are destroying Canadian standard of living.

00:18:23.580 Our affordability is worsening.

00:18:26.240 There's a sense that our country is indeed broken.

00:18:29.800 And why is that?

00:18:30.720 Because we pursued policies that many, including ourselves at Frontier, have cautioned many, many times, have never worked.

00:18:39.380 So I think this is the time where they want to change the channel,

00:18:42.660 but do in a way that reinvigorates their activist base

00:18:46.880 and creates a renewed network to go after their political opponents.

00:18:53.260 I mean, here at the Western Standard,

00:18:55.560 we have actually been talking about this for a couple of years.

00:18:59.800 But how is the rest of the media handling this story, to your observation?

00:19:05.400 Well, I think generally poorly.

00:19:07.460 I think this is the other story, is that, I mean,

00:19:10.300 it's a bit like the analogy of going into a room and seeing a large elephant and only seeing one

00:19:14.960 part of it like its tail. You have to look at the larger picture here. So it's not just this

00:19:20.100 initiative, the so-called anti-racist initiative, but it's also combined with Bill C-6-3, the so-called

00:19:27.280 online harms bill, which will create enormous power to edit and block, again, any narrative that they

00:19:34.600 disagree with. But thirdly, it's in line with the initiative of funding the legacy media. We have

00:19:41.000 some 2,000 outlets in this country that are given an extraordinary set of funds. You have many

00:19:47.140 outlets like the Winnipeg Free Press, where approximately half their budget is received

00:19:53.120 from the government. And they all have to basically climb on board with the government's

00:19:59.240 narrative of diversity, equity, inclusion. And those are the fancy words that basically describe

00:20:04.820 they're going to report on things the way we see it as a government. So they've lost their

00:20:09.960 independence. And again, this is part of the lesson of history. We need good independent media

00:20:16.100 like the Western Standard and a number of others to call out this, to try to pursue the truth,

00:20:23.420 all for a free and democratic society. I want to repeat your words back to you because I think

00:20:29.040 the casual uh listener may wonder whether he just heard what he thought he heard you said a moment

00:20:35.200 ago that uh a winnipeg newspaper i think you i think you cited the tribune had actually the free

00:20:43.040 press ironically the free press right the winnipeg free press what was the percentage of their

00:20:50.720 budget that was met by government funds my understanding is it's almost 50 percent

00:20:57.280 50% of their bills are paid by the federal government, not 50% of payroll, 50% of their bills?

00:21:05.920 Yeah. So what happens is you don't have a free press. You have essentially, and I apply this

00:21:12.740 across all the media, the 2,000 outlets that received this funding, it is akin to a Pravda,

00:21:20.060 the Soviet mouthpiece that constantly came out every day, carrying the message of the government.

00:21:27.280 So when we see efforts to, I mean, we've always had the inclination of journalistic schools to

00:21:35.980 be very much tilted towards a leftist perspective, the idea that socialism is the answer to all that

00:21:42.100 ills us. But now we're seeing something different. We're seeing the introduction again of a kind of

00:21:48.280 cultural Marxist narrative that is really being spelled out here and put into operation. That's

00:21:55.400 what they're doing. Is there an explicit understanding between the federal government

00:22:00.620 that issues these funds and the newspapers that receive them that they'll tread carefully on

00:22:07.680 certain issues? I think it's both explicit and implicit. I think it's implicit in the sense that

00:22:14.360 whoever gives you money, you're going to be very much aware of why they invested that money with

00:22:20.920 you. So you will, quote, self-censor. I mean, I think that's a dangerous part of our society,

00:22:25.940 quite frankly, where you have a lot of efforts and tactics being employed to basically essentially

00:22:32.040 get people to self-censor themselves. And the media, the legacy media receiving these funds

00:22:36.880 is no different. Explicitly, we know that there is an agreement signed. I have yet to see a full

00:22:44.380 agreement other than a principled statement that somehow the federal government is promoting

00:22:50.320 the media in a way that supports their principles, whether it's to cover, quote, diversity, equity,

00:22:57.080 inclusion, secondly, a climate crisis, and thirdly, the whole issue of their terms of

00:23:03.580 reconciliation when it comes to Indigenous policy. So then, David, if the viewer who has just been

00:23:11.580 tuning in now finds it incredible that we're here talking about a federal government program

00:23:19.540 that seeks to make snitches out of citizens

00:23:25.800 to turn in people who are doing perfectly normal things,

00:23:30.600 like running for school board,

00:23:32.840 who happen to have an anti-trans narrative

00:23:37.500 or some concerns about what is being taught about that in the classroom,

00:23:42.240 or who enjoy a film such as Am I a Racist,

00:23:47.200 or who perhaps even just don't like the way things are done,

00:23:57.740 but these people will be turned in to the government

00:24:01.140 and classified as haters.

00:24:05.640 And it's not a surprise that you haven't read about it in the newspapers

00:24:08.840 because the newspapers, the mainstream media, are silent about it.

00:24:14.060 And it's only through organizations such as our own, and there are a number of other worthy warriors in this cause, through how any of this comes out.

00:24:24.900 But anybody who wanted to could go onto the Heritage Canada website, and they would find a list of organizations that are very open about it,

00:24:33.040 who have received money from the government under this program, and the amounts of money that they received.

00:24:40.540 And now there is an extra top-up of $273 million to generate this enormous impression that Canada is full of hateful people and only the liberal government can save the citizens from the haters.

00:25:03.480 That's kind of where we have reached in this country.

00:25:06.600 And this is an entirely new thing.

00:25:09.100 I believe it is.

00:25:10.540 And I think we should keep a larger strategic perspective, if I may, and that is that this type of initiative will do great harm to our society instead of building bridges.

00:25:22.760 And it's interesting, they're going to be holding a series of national workshops across Canada as a way to train them up on so-called best practices to identify what they believe or hate, and then learn how to report them so that they can in turn be prosecuted.

00:25:42.600 And I would say it's not about prosecution then, it's really going to be about persecution. And I hope I'm sincerely wrong on this, but I doubt it.

00:25:52.760 So in this context, this will do enormous damage, Nigel, to the fabric of our society.

00:25:58.840 So instead of building those so-called bridges, it will actually rip apart communities as

00:26:06.600 we dare to have honest debate and discussion about very important issues, not just about

00:26:13.640 science, but about all kinds of issues where there are different perspectives.

00:26:18.420 And one of the strengths of our Canadian society has been a tradition where we have a tolerance for each other, even though we have different perspectives, that we can agree and disagree to build this country.

00:26:31.860 And in unity, we do that effort. We have been able to build an incredibly prosperous and successful nation.

00:26:39.880 And all people come from all over the world so that they can take in the so-called Canadian dream.

00:26:46.320 So this initiative is very disconcerting, and I believe that it is very important that citizens become informed about this initiative.

00:26:56.320 And so I congratulate you, Nigel, and certainly the whole team there at the Western Standard,

00:27:00.880 because citizens need to speak up now to their MPs, their representatives, and say,

00:27:06.680 this is not the Canada that we have signed on as citizens.

00:27:10.480 Our tradition is one of tolerance and working together.

00:27:13.540 This will very much radically undermine that, all in the name of diversity, equity, inclusion and their perspective.

00:27:23.160 This is not about inclusion. This is about excluding, ironically, our tradition of a free and democratic society.

00:27:29.920 You know, unfortunately, our experience during the COVID-19 crisis suggests that there are all too many people who are quite prepared to rat out their neighbors without being paid.

00:27:45.000 Add the accelerant of government funding, and this could be extremely serious.

00:27:51.560 Talk to us about Bill C-63, the Online Harms Act, and how that dovetails with what we've been talking about so far.

00:27:59.920 Well, Bill C-63 perfectly is a complement, pardon me, is complementary to this initiative. Why? Because Bill C-63 provides, yet again, the larger legal basis to pursue the silencing and the blocking of any narrative that the government disagrees with.

00:28:26.260 So Bill C-6-3 is very much tied into this.

00:28:29.400 They want to limit the discussion within the public square.

00:28:34.880 So Bill C-6-3 is obviously very much connected to this initiative

00:28:39.720 and will be, again, it needs to be seen as part of this initiative, I believe.

00:28:47.020 I see.

00:28:48.520 I think you used the phrase dark times a couple of times earlier.

00:28:53.540 My understanding of Bill C-63 is that the government will provide funds for professional snitches and that those people who have put things on Facebook or on Twitter and are years ago can be prosecuted for that in the future if they don't remove them, if they have the power to do that.

00:29:21.600 and that it requires only an allegation from an anonymous source,

00:29:28.240 and these anonymous sources will be paid to actually go to war with the people

00:29:34.240 with whose opinions you don't agree.

00:29:36.880 That's my understanding of, that's not the whole of Bill C-63,

00:29:40.300 but I believe that that's within the legislation.

00:29:45.180 Is that your understanding, David?

00:29:46.920 Yes.

00:29:47.580 So essentially, you can connect the dots here.

00:29:51.600 This initiative should not be seen unto itself, but rather connected to Bill C-63, where parties can anonymously complain, be able to initiate all kinds of legal actions against parties that they may not even know, but are offended by, because their opinions that are being pursued do not fit their own narrative.

00:30:14.780 And so that is redefined as hate speech. This is entirely foreign to our rule of law and precedence

00:30:23.400 that's already exists in this country about how we see hate speech. So this is a radical departure

00:30:29.860 from our traditional Canadian law. And I actually refer to this as the introduction of Marxist law,

00:30:37.720 because it's pursuing particular outcomes and judgments that change social equality. I think

00:30:46.220 if you speak with a number of legal analysts on this, you can see this is one of the big grand

00:30:52.780 debates, quite frankly, in our law schools between a traditional, more classical liberal perspective

00:30:58.860 of the law, and this type of law that emphasizes equal social outcomes. So this is a very worrisome

00:31:08.020 trend. And I think what you're going to see here is when they talk about these national workshops,

00:31:12.980 and ironically, the workshops will be called building bridges. It's not about building bridges.

00:31:19.480 It's about animating and weaponizing the law against your fellow citizens and groups that

00:31:25.780 you disagree with? Do you think it'll pass? I mean, I think that's, I think it remains to be

00:31:37.040 seen. I mean, this is such an outrageous initiative and set of legislation that is

00:31:44.720 entirely not in keeping with the Canadian tradition of a respect for the rule of law

00:31:51.380 and freedom of speech. I'm doubtful that it will be passed, but I think the difficulty is that this

00:31:57.600 government is so probably desperate to remove itself out of the doldrums of negative polls

00:32:06.380 that it is possible that they will. Then, of course, there'd be a period of time during which

00:32:13.080 regulations would need to be written and then an election which, you know, is that the salvation

00:32:19.480 here that this government loses the election and this thing just falls on the wayside indeed it is

00:32:25.240 but it is a an important signal that this government is making to again its coalition

00:32:31.760 of special interests who really want desperately to see this legislation so that they can go after

00:32:38.300 with not just you know their own suasion but the whole rule of law behind them and i think this is

00:32:46.120 very concerning. We need more than ever healthy debates about the issues that we face as a nation.

00:32:53.640 This is one of our strengths. And for me, this is a very, this is the Rubicon.

00:33:00.320 If you can refer to the, you know, the ancient river in Italy, where history was made with

00:33:06.840 Julius Caesar passing into the Roman region. This is the Rubicon of Canadian society. Now,

00:33:13.780 If we can't hold the line to, you know, paraphrase Tamara Leach and the whole reference that was made there during those protests in Ottawa a number of years ago, if we can't hold the line on this one, I believe our Canadian society will arc downward rather quickly because we are undermining the ability to speak freely, to seek the truth.

00:33:40.820 And as you know, there's many cases in history where people have not been able to come to grips with the truth.

00:33:48.540 And it was a courageous small group of parties, a minority, if you will, that spoke up and dared to confront the powers that be, the king, the queen, whoever it was, and say, you were wrong.

00:34:01.840 This is not what is happening here.

00:34:04.020 So that is an enormous strength to protect, and that is our great tradition that has made this country what it is today.

00:34:11.580 David, on that deeply unhappy note, we are out of time.

00:34:16.820 But thank you for explaining that in such detail and with such passion.

00:34:21.900 Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure to be with you.

00:34:24.740 For the Western Standard, I'm Nigel Hannaford.

00:34:34.020 Thank you.

Western Standard - October 01, 2024

HANNAFORD： Hard to believe but the Trudeau Liberals are actually at war with free speech

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