Western Standard - December 03, 2025


HANNAFORD： Ottawa blinks as Smith forces historic energy retreat


Episode Stats

Length

22 minutes

Words per Minute

177.25017

Word Count

3,999

Sentence Count

256

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

The Western Standard's energy reporter David Winnick is in Calvary, Alberta for a special meeting between Prime Minister Mark Carney and Premier Danielle Smith to discuss Alberta's oil production and export to the Far East. The two also discuss carbon capture and clean energy options for the future.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Good evening, Western Standard viewers, and welcome to Hannaford, a weekly politics show
00:00:21.680 of the Western Standard. It is Thursday, November the 27th, and we have just had a remarkable
00:00:30.000 meeting of opposites take place here in Calvary today, and they've come out looking as though
00:00:37.360 they're not opposites at all. They're on the same side. Premier Danielle Smith and Prime Minister
00:00:42.460 Mark Carney met today to sign a memorandum of agreement on what? On expanding Alberta oil
00:00:50.080 production and pushing product to the Far East. It's a complicated subject. Some people say it'll
00:00:58.560 never happen. Some people say it should never happen, and one person was there from the Western
00:01:06.840 Standard to record the whole thing, and that is David Winnick, our energy reporter. Welcome to the
00:01:13.420 show, David. Thanks for having me, Nigel. Appreciate it. It's a pleasure. First of all, before we do
00:01:18.640 anything else, a very fine bit of reporting on short notice, anytime there's a special briefing
00:01:24.560 session, you know that there's a lot of detail, and so often the things that you really care about
00:01:31.500 are in the details. Oh, definitely. So, after you had written it up and you threw your pen down,
00:01:39.040 what did you think? Did we do a good thing here today? Oh, I think I'm kind of... I'd say it's a
00:01:44.880 mixed bag, to be honest with you, Nigel. A lot of what we saw today was kind of just what we'd
00:01:49.940 already heard might actually happen. I know there was a bunch of sources from the Globe and Mail that
00:01:53.260 said that there was going to possibly be something with carbon capture. They were going to talk about
00:01:57.580 maybe the tanker ban, and we saw a bit of that today. I mean, probably the main takeaways is that
00:02:02.480 the clean electrical regulations are going to be repelled immediately for Alberta. There's not going to
00:02:08.280 be an emissions cap, which is a bonus, and apparently there's going to be Indigenous co-ownership of the
00:02:13.980 pipeline going forward, but they haven't said which Indigenous groups it's going to be at. It's a good
00:02:18.220 possibility, I would wager, probably coastal First Nations are going to be involved, but again, there
00:02:22.000 hasn't been any names, and as for a proponent for the pipeline going forward, we're still waiting to
00:02:26.540 see if anyone from the private sector is going to sort of step up to the plate. Well, let's talk a little
00:02:31.860 bit more about the carbon capture. In the last couple of months here at the Western Standard,
00:02:38.220 we've run a couple of articles talking about the grand cost of the grand bargain, and the bargain
00:02:46.380 was always that, yes, the federal government would facilitate a pipeline to the coast, but they would
00:02:54.320 have to carry what they called at first decarbonized oil, and I noticed they're not calling it that
00:03:00.780 anymore. I sound a bit ridiculous. But at any rate, the point was that in order for the oil to be
00:03:07.200 acceptable, they were going to have to bury, pump down through the strata to a deep well, all the
00:03:16.360 carbon dioxide that it took to produce that oil, or an equivalent amount. It does absolutely nothing
00:03:23.940 for anybody, and yet that was the deal. So, question. It's very expensive. I hear numbers
00:03:32.400 like $16 billion for the Pathways Alliance project to actually go ahead. We know it works. It's been
00:03:40.020 working in Weyburn. You can do this. This is not science fiction, but it's the economics of it.
00:03:44.960 And I think $16 billion was mentioned in the press release this morning.
00:03:51.380 16.5, yeah.
00:03:52.380 16.5.
00:03:53.420 Well, there you are. Who pays for that?
00:03:56.420 Well, realistically, they're talking about the Pathways Alliance companies, but there's, again,
00:04:01.820 no set actual person, but they say the government's going to probably pay for it, which means you and
00:04:06.920 me, the taxpayer, because again, there's no private proponent yet, as far as we know of.
00:04:11.240 Well, even a private proponent is going to face this issue. Where is the market for decarbonized
00:04:20.880 oil? I mean, Canada, apparently, at least in Western Canada, not in Eastern Canada, but in
00:04:26.940 Western Canada, it's very important that we have the oil that is clean.
00:04:33.340 Well, we also have the most ethical.
00:04:35.500 The ethical, right. Well, are there countries elsewhere in the world where,
00:04:41.240 they're saying, you know, if only we could get ethical oil, that's what we would buy.
00:04:46.280 And, you know, we'd be prepared to pay more for it, you know, main three.
00:04:50.880 I can't think of a single one, to be honest with you, Nigel, because realistically speaking,
00:04:54.000 when's economics ever actually cared about ethics?
00:04:56.080 If someone could find a cheaper alternative or option, they always go for it.
00:04:59.160 That's why there's talk now about the Americans possibly having a regime change or bring about
00:05:03.560 a regime change in Venezuela to have maybe a cheaper source of heavy crude oil going forward.
00:05:07.380 So instead of maybe like Albertan oil going down to the Gulf Coast refineries, they might
00:05:11.880 get some now from Venezuela and possibly shut us up.
00:05:13.920 But again, that's depending on whether or not what happens in Venezuela in the next couple
00:05:17.300 of days. But back to your question in terms of decarbonized oil, there's not too many
00:05:21.920 people that are, there's not really a big global demand for it per se right now.
00:05:25.180 The Asian markets are just looking for whatever they can get, especially China and Japan.
00:05:28.840 And so if there is any time for it, there isn't really, no.
00:05:31.020 So I think it's just basically just kind of the green agenda, green climate agenda again
00:05:34.940 from the feds. And there's really no substance to it.
00:05:37.020 And there's really no customers for it going forward, as far as I can tell.
00:05:39.520 Are any other countries even interested anymore in the green agenda?
00:05:47.020 I mean, we've just come off COP30 in Brazil, a conference of the parties.
00:05:51.120 And it's all about, you know, saving the world and cutting the carbon dioxide.
00:05:56.760 I don't see any of that being reenacted in the home lands.
00:06:00.960 Well, there isn't, because some of the biggest proponents for the European Union, I remember
00:06:04.680 Germany, Finland, Sweden, they're all going away from that.
00:06:07.560 Now, I remember Germany was trying to go clean energy quite a few years ago, and that
00:06:10.600 didn't work, so they started going back to coal plants and whatnot.
00:06:13.320 So I don't really think there is going forward.
00:06:15.460 No, Nigel.
00:06:16.260 No.
00:06:17.040 Okay, so we're still going to do it.
00:06:18.960 So we're going to end up with this.
00:06:20.980 I'm not an economy.
00:06:22.000 I'm not an energy economist.
00:06:23.260 And I, therefore, I'm not going to be bold enough to say how much more it's going to
00:06:28.660 add to the cost of a barrel of oil to pump this carbon underground, but it's going to
00:06:37.120 be more.
00:06:38.220 So it's going to be uncompetitive.
00:06:40.440 Now, presently, we don't have a pipeline proponent.
00:06:43.620 Strictly speaking, the person who owns the pipeline is not the one who's going to be paying
00:06:49.800 this anyway, but I have a feeling that the demand might not be that great.
00:06:56.200 In which case, where is the pipeline proponent coming from?
00:07:01.040 Have you any idea about people waiting in the wings?
00:07:04.820 Well, that's the thing.
00:07:05.960 We haven't really heard any rumors about it.
00:07:07.900 I mean, they've, well, I can't even actually say there is any rumors because I haven't heard
00:07:11.800 anything from any sources saying that there's empty discussions.
00:07:14.800 There's been no pipeline companies, any major companies in Canada.
00:07:17.740 And quite frankly, why would there be at this time?
00:07:19.960 Because look what happened with Trans Mountain.
00:07:21.440 Prices kept going up and up and up.
00:07:23.320 And yesterday, the Insura did their state of industry lunch.
00:07:26.720 There was a bunch of oil and gas industry experts there.
00:07:29.120 And they were basically saying no company has a blank check at the moment just to throw
00:07:32.380 money into this pipeline unless they have actual assurances going forward.
00:07:36.600 Because they don't really know with regulations.
00:07:37.860 They talked about the tanker ban getting repealed.
00:07:40.380 That's not going to happen.
00:07:41.240 Apparently, according to today, there's going to be some modifications, which we have no idea
00:07:44.840 what those will be.
00:07:45.460 Carney didn't really specify.
00:07:46.460 Now that Danielle Smith, so we don't exactly know.
00:07:49.520 See, that's one of the things about this whole days of speeches and press releases.
00:07:55.020 They use words like modifications.
00:07:57.980 And we spring to the conclusion, well, obviously, you know, I mean, stands to reason the modification
00:08:04.160 must be that you're going to let tankers come in perhaps to a certain part of the coast
00:08:09.660 where the refinery is or where the end of the pipeline is.
00:08:16.540 But nobody said that.
00:08:18.300 We just assume that.
00:08:19.620 No, there's no actual route set either.
00:08:21.400 Because this morning in a briefing, some senior government officials said that they were still
00:08:25.220 working on what the route was even going to be from Alberta to the coast.
00:08:28.220 So they don't even have that planned out yet.
00:08:29.700 They're still working on that.
00:08:30.740 And according to them as well, I believe that there is going to be a date, a deadline of
00:08:35.840 April 1st, or no, July 1st, sorry, next year, that they have to have the pipeline application
00:08:41.180 sent into the major project's office.
00:08:43.480 So we have no idea what will happen if they fail to meet that deadline.
00:08:46.860 Because again, nothing's set in stone yet.
00:08:49.140 So it's just all still up in the air, really.
00:08:50.720 Well, that makes you stop to ask, why are we doing this?
00:08:58.520 Why is Mr. Carney doing it?
00:09:01.280 It's very easy for us to be so focused on Alberta and to question the reasoning of the
00:09:08.680 provincial government, of the oil companies who are based here, who have been noisily supportive,
00:09:16.780 but not actually committing to anything, because there's nothing to commit to, really, at the
00:09:23.960 moment.
00:09:25.120 What's Mr. Carney getting out of this?
00:09:28.360 Oh, that's a good question.
00:09:30.520 Free publicity, I guess.
00:09:31.820 Not that he really needs any.
00:09:33.100 What was it that the conservative leader, Pierre Paulyev, said in the House today?
00:09:38.500 Oh, he basically just said that it was just another PR, basically just PR sort of stunt
00:09:42.260 from the liberals to basically look like they're doing something when they're not really
00:09:44.760 doing anything.
00:09:45.220 And I would happen to agree with that, because like I said, if you're going to have this sort
00:09:48.900 of actual set agreement, well, there has to be a set route.
00:09:51.480 Don't have that.
00:09:52.540 They say it has to be privately owned.
00:09:54.180 We don't have a company that's even come forward or even said they'd be willing to talk
00:09:57.060 about this.
00:09:57.720 So realistically, I don't know what you could say offhand that Carney's getting at this,
00:10:01.660 except maybe to get Alberta off his back and Daniel Smith off his back, because for
00:10:05.300 the last, how many months has it been now?
00:10:07.440 Three months, four months, they've talked about this memorandum of understanding and we're
00:10:10.340 going to get it done.
00:10:11.120 And originally it was going to be for Grey Cup weekend.
00:10:13.020 That got pushed back and now we finally have something.
00:10:15.760 But it's, well, realistically, it's a bit much ado about nothing, a lot of it, because
00:10:19.660 there's no real set things in stone and concrete, really, for the most part, except the fact
00:10:23.940 that there's going to be all the clean electricity regulations are getting taken off, no emissions
00:10:28.460 cap.
00:10:29.420 But that's about it.
00:10:30.080 In terms of actual pipeline, don't totally know.
00:10:32.360 Well, OK, so Mr. Carney wants, you know, as you put it, to get Daniel Smith off his back.
00:10:41.140 I can see why that would be a win for him to go back and say, well, we have this memorandum
00:10:48.120 of understanding.
00:10:50.120 It's only a memorandum of understanding, folks.
00:10:53.380 Everybody relax.
00:10:55.040 B.C., Quebec, both of whom have expressed a strong antipathy to what's going on here
00:11:02.740 in Calgary today.
00:11:06.480 Question, though, is there something else that Daniel Smith could have or should have done?
00:11:13.640 I don't really think you can say that there's probably anything she could have done, because
00:11:19.580 she herself said in her conference today that this agreement addresses seven of the nine
00:11:24.280 bad laws that she's been criticizing heavily from the Carney administration, which goes back
00:11:28.680 to Trudeau's administration as well.
00:11:31.240 I don't really know what you could say that she could have done, because, I mean, realistically,
00:11:35.940 she got them to agree that, yes, we are understanding that you want a pipeline.
00:11:40.100 Yes, we know it wants to go to B.C.
00:11:41.780 Now they're going to start talking to Evie.
00:11:43.240 That's been confirmed.
00:11:44.200 He said that he talked to them earlier today and yesterday, her and Carney.
00:11:48.600 The possibility of anything else, really, at this stage, I mean, apart from just coming
00:11:53.340 out and saying that there is indeed private sector commitment from a specific company,
00:11:57.180 I don't really know what else she could have done now, for the most part.
00:12:00.280 Well, I mean, what if she had done nothing at all?
00:12:02.200 As you said, Mr. Carney remains very against energy development in Alberta.
00:12:11.620 Anything that he promises is conditional, and so we don't take it seriously.
00:12:18.980 We still have our nine demands, but do you think she could have done that?
00:12:24.920 There is that possibility, but I was just thinking as well that maybe her even just getting Carney
00:12:29.160 to the table to sign on something might actually get somebody to step up now because after,
00:12:34.220 as I said, months of them talking and nothing happening, maybe now that they've actually put
00:12:37.960 pen to paper, maybe now they'll have actual companies come out and say, hmm, okay, maybe
00:12:42.100 we'll start talking to them.
00:12:43.160 Maybe they'll start reaching out.
00:12:44.140 So there is maybe that.
00:12:45.500 It's maybe just a show of good faith, maybe, going forward for people to maybe come in
00:12:49.660 that might want to actually invest with Alberta.
00:12:53.060 So the deal would be that they don't have to worry about the cost of pumping carbon dioxide
00:12:59.540 underground.
00:13:01.100 So although the oil might actually be more expensive to produce, they can still sell it
00:13:06.260 at the world price?
00:13:07.100 Is that the deal?
00:13:08.800 Possibly.
00:13:09.420 I guess we'll just have to see going forward.
00:13:10.660 Wow, that's a, that's a, now I noticed that the Quebec has come out very strongly against
00:13:17.400 it.
00:13:18.740 Quebec, it's back there.
00:13:20.120 Why would they care?
00:13:22.620 Oh, well, I guess because they've been constantly against pipelines for years with us, obviously,
00:13:28.380 going forward.
00:13:30.140 I think it was today, oh God, what was his name?
00:13:33.040 The minister.
00:13:33.460 He was saying that, I think originally in the past that Alberta's pipeline and Alberta's
00:13:36.960 oil sands were basically poisoning the world, if I remember correctly.
00:13:40.020 I think that was about like a month or so ago he came out and said that.
00:13:42.260 Oh, they've been saying that for years.
00:13:43.240 Oh, yeah.
00:13:44.440 No, I don't, I think, I don't really know where to begin with them because honestly at
00:13:50.240 this stage, it just seems like, yeah, it doesn't affect them in the least.
00:13:53.240 I just feel like maybe they have some projects in the works that they want pushed forward
00:13:56.620 that this might take away maybe sort of Carney's, what's the word I'm going to be looking for
00:14:03.140 here?
00:14:03.600 Maybe have Carney actually like look towards their direction, if that makes any sort of sense.
00:14:07.820 But I really don't know what that would be for the time.
00:14:10.020 I mean, if they have anything in the woodwork in terms of new pipelines or anything going
00:14:13.040 to the East Coast, because Energy East is totally dead.
00:14:15.440 So I don't really know what that would be, Nigel.
00:14:17.160 Well, I wonder if that's, if they're just taking the point of view that, look, BC evidently
00:14:24.680 doesn't want this.
00:14:25.980 No.
00:14:26.740 Okay.
00:14:27.080 So if Mr. Carney uses the federal prerogative, which he is legally entitled to do, and forces
00:14:34.920 this across BC, well, then maybe he would do the same thing in Quebec.
00:14:41.680 There's a good possibility.
00:14:43.000 Mais non.
00:14:43.800 C'est impossible.
00:14:45.400 No.
00:14:45.980 Sure no.
00:14:46.500 So I guess they're thinking that if they let this, take this lying down, if they don't
00:14:51.740 stake out a position, they might be next.
00:14:53.460 Well, there is that possibility, too, and there's the possibility that David Evey could
00:14:56.940 as well use a constitutional veto against any project.
00:14:59.920 That was kind of floated about today, but there is no, like, really set thing on whether
00:15:03.780 or not that's possible yet.
00:15:05.120 That was just kind of floated by certain sources and whatnot today.
00:15:08.020 I'm still...
00:15:08.540 I'm still...
00:15:08.560 So what the constitutional veto...
00:15:10.860 Well, that's what I was trying to figure out as well, exactly, because they were just
00:15:13.600 saying, hey, this goes against their interest in the...
00:15:15.540 You know, let's get a bag of them here in Alberta if they're available.
00:15:18.680 Oh, exactly.
00:15:19.180 I think they were just putting that out to see what your reaction would be, but who
00:15:23.920 knows?
00:15:24.300 I have a feeling that we've had this discussion within the last three months.
00:15:29.840 It is not the first time, of course, that Mr. Evey has declared his opposition to a pipeline,
00:15:37.180 and at the time, I think the new energy minister, Hudson, said something along the lines of,
00:15:44.500 well, you know, you guys in Alberta are just going to have to work it out with B.C.
00:15:47.940 We're not...
00:15:49.240 And yet, when there's something that the federal government wants to contradict the Constitution
00:15:56.000 on that involves Alberta, they assert all kinds of powers that don't actually exist.
00:16:01.800 And then the premier of Alberta says, well, they're driving in our lane, and we have that
00:16:06.440 discussion, but when it's B.C., is it perhaps the slender majority with which he is working,
00:16:16.140 and he's worried about the loyalty of those liberal MPs who, you know, are far too precious
00:16:25.620 to burn fuel to make carbon dioxide and walk everywhere and, you know, take the train to
00:16:33.800 Ottawa, I don't know, I'm being a little facetious here, but there's something that makes Ottawa,
00:16:41.600 more particularly, the liberal government, slow to be forceful with British Columbia and
00:16:49.000 Quebec, but quite ready to put the boots to Alberta.
00:16:53.880 I would definitely say that's the case, absolutely.
00:16:56.220 So what do you make of the fact that Mr. Ford, premier of Ontario, has weighed in on Alberta's
00:17:01.800 size, oh, this is great, we need to do this?
00:17:04.100 Well, I think he's basically just speaking for the vast majority of Canadians, because
00:17:07.160 there's been polls that have come out recently that say, I think it's just over 70% or more
00:17:11.980 of Canadians are actually in favor of a pipeline to the West Coast, because people basically
00:17:16.820 just want a better economy.
00:17:18.760 And what's that mean?
00:17:19.440 They want a new pipeline?
00:17:20.620 That means more jobs?
00:17:22.460 It means more revenue?
00:17:23.400 So why wouldn't he be?
00:17:24.560 Because I think that he's a businessman as well.
00:17:26.340 So is Daniel Smith.
00:17:27.140 I think they are all for business, and I don't really see at this stage of the game, with
00:17:30.920 the economy just around the world and the geopolitical situation that's going on just
00:17:34.320 in general around the globe, white people wouldn't want more jobs and a better economy
00:17:38.500 overall.
00:17:41.500 You're talking perfect sense.
00:17:43.280 I just wonder why that perfect sense is so hard to hear coming from the central government,
00:17:51.800 from the federal government, you know, I was very struck.
00:17:57.700 I think I mentioned this in my column on the matter this morning, that Mr. Carney wants
00:18:03.900 to make Canada an energy superpower.
00:18:06.180 You've said that many a time.
00:18:07.720 And yet, do you make an energy superpower by sticking the taxpayers with the cost?
00:18:17.840 No.
00:18:18.160 And furthermore, in what sense is Canada not an energy superpower already?
00:18:25.520 97%, I'm checking the numbers this morning, 97% of the oil produced in Canada comes out
00:18:31.620 of Alberta Wells, or out of the oil sense.
00:18:35.140 All right.
00:18:36.200 We are, apparently, the fourth largest producer of oil in the world.
00:18:42.900 Now, I don't know whether that's enough to make us a superpower, but it's certainly a
00:18:46.640 power, and yet somehow or other, because we have this ridiculous commitment to doing it
00:18:54.320 all without generating carbon dioxide, we're holding ourselves back.
00:19:01.060 Lift the lid, and we could increase oil production by 50% by 2030, I'm told.
00:19:07.000 Yeah.
00:19:07.100 What is it, 4 billion barrels a day at the moment?
00:19:09.500 It is, yeah.
00:19:10.180 Okay.
00:19:10.700 And 6 billion is possible?
00:19:12.660 That is possible, yeah.
00:19:14.860 That would be well on the way to an energy superpower.
00:19:18.520 You would think so.
00:19:19.180 You would think so, wouldn't you?
00:19:20.360 And yet, somehow, it's got to be done with, you know, one hand and four more fingers tied
00:19:27.460 behind your back.
00:19:28.460 That's about it, really.
00:19:29.180 It's a funny old world we live in, David.
00:19:33.520 What happens next?
00:19:35.660 What happens next?
00:19:36.920 Well, that's the milli-dollar question, I guess.
00:19:39.160 Going past the convention tomorrow.
00:19:42.000 Going past the convention?
00:19:42.760 Well, that's actually going to be very interesting, because that's basically going to be the talk
00:19:45.200 of the town up in Edmonton for the next weekend.
00:19:47.760 But, yeah, no, basically...
00:19:48.980 Well, just the talk of the town, what would you anticipate being the reaction of the party
00:19:53.960 membership to this?
00:19:55.240 Oh, I think it's going to be split down the middle, because I think it's going to basically
00:19:58.180 be the people that are loyal to Smith will say that, yeah, we're finally making progress,
00:20:02.220 because, as she's even said herself, Trudeau would have never signed on to this.
00:20:05.580 So, Carney's at least actually open to talking about this.
00:20:08.800 So, there is them that will probably back her.
00:20:10.980 But I do know that a lot of the people from the Alberta independence movement, like the
00:20:15.220 Alberta Prosperity Project and that, they think this whole thing is basically just
00:20:18.540 a waste of time, and this isn't going to change anything.
00:20:20.840 And I know that a bunch of them are going to be there on the weekend, so we might
00:20:23.380 have a little butting heads and whatnot, I think, in Edmonton between those two groups
00:20:27.060 going forward over what happened at the Memorandum of Understanding today.
00:20:30.300 David, you're going to be there, aren't you?
00:20:31.700 Oh, it should be fun.
00:20:32.840 Yeah.
00:20:33.260 So, you'll be reporting live from the floor, I'm sure.
00:20:37.300 Yeah, that's the plan.
00:20:38.600 You'll be looking out for who says what.
00:20:41.540 I suppose we will.
00:20:42.380 Well, I have, I can never keep up with some of these psychological terms.
00:20:46.980 How many stages of grief are there?
00:20:50.100 Oh, five or six?
00:20:51.120 Five or six.
00:20:52.980 Production says five.
00:20:54.280 I'm going to go with five.
00:20:56.260 How long did it take you to go through all five stages of grief when you heard that Minister
00:21:03.240 Gilboa had resigned from cabinet?
00:21:05.980 I don't know if they even re-staved one, to be honest.
00:21:12.400 What are these stages of joy are there, Nigel?
00:21:14.060 I guess it's back to climbing the CN Tower.
00:21:17.420 He's done what he can, and now he's been.
00:21:20.080 One more, actually it's interesting to see how the Trudeau-era cabinet is basically being
00:21:25.820 one by one.
00:21:26.620 Yeah.
00:21:26.920 They're being recycled out, and it will be, we won't be able to use that line about,
00:21:33.080 oh, this is just Trudeau's people with a new leader.
00:21:35.340 And he's actually, we've got rid of, well, Gilboa, Melanie Jolie is apparently on the
00:21:44.200 way out.
00:21:44.980 Freeland's gone?
00:21:45.960 Yep.
00:21:46.720 So, you know, it's a new team.
00:21:49.700 Perhaps there'll be a new approach.
00:21:52.580 I wouldn't put money on it.
00:21:54.340 I wouldn't.
00:21:54.780 There's always a glimmer of hope, isn't there?
00:21:56.100 But maybe there's a glimmer of hope, and I certainly hope for all our sakes that it turns
00:22:01.220 into more than a glimmer.
00:22:02.480 Me too.
00:22:02.820 David, I really appreciate you coming on the show today.
00:22:05.040 Thanks, Nigel.
00:22:06.020 Great work.
00:22:06.700 Good luck with the convention tomorrow.
00:22:08.600 Yeah.
00:22:09.000 All right.
00:22:09.560 It brings.
00:22:10.220 Yeah.
00:22:10.880 Thanks very much for coming again.
00:22:12.460 Appreciate it.
00:22:13.900 For the Western Standard, I'm Nigel Hannaford.
00:22:16.500 Thank you.