Western Standard - HANNAFORD： Ottawa blinks as Smith forces historic energy retreat

00:00:00.000 Good evening, Western Standard viewers, and welcome to Hannaford, a weekly politics show

00:00:21.680 of the Western Standard. It is Thursday, November the 27th, and we have just had a remarkable

00:00:30.000 meeting of opposites take place here in Calvary today, and they've come out looking as though

00:00:37.360 they're not opposites at all. They're on the same side. Premier Danielle Smith and Prime Minister

00:00:42.460 Mark Carney met today to sign a memorandum of agreement on what? On expanding Alberta oil

00:00:50.080 production and pushing product to the Far East. It's a complicated subject. Some people say it'll

00:00:58.560 never happen. Some people say it should never happen, and one person was there from the Western

00:01:06.840 Standard to record the whole thing, and that is David Winnick, our energy reporter. Welcome to the

00:01:13.420 show, David. Thanks for having me, Nigel. Appreciate it. It's a pleasure. First of all, before we do

00:01:18.640 anything else, a very fine bit of reporting on short notice, anytime there's a special briefing

00:01:24.560 session, you know that there's a lot of detail, and so often the things that you really care about

00:01:31.500 are in the details. Oh, definitely. So, after you had written it up and you threw your pen down,

00:01:39.040 what did you think? Did we do a good thing here today? Oh, I think I'm kind of... I'd say it's a

00:01:44.880 mixed bag, to be honest with you, Nigel. A lot of what we saw today was kind of just what we'd

00:01:49.940 already heard might actually happen. I know there was a bunch of sources from the Globe and Mail that

00:01:53.260 said that there was going to possibly be something with carbon capture. They were going to talk about

00:01:57.580 maybe the tanker ban, and we saw a bit of that today. I mean, probably the main takeaways is that

00:02:02.480 the clean electrical regulations are going to be repelled immediately for Alberta. There's not going to

00:02:08.280 be an emissions cap, which is a bonus, and apparently there's going to be Indigenous co-ownership of the

00:02:13.980 pipeline going forward, but they haven't said which Indigenous groups it's going to be at. It's a good 0.99

00:02:18.220 possibility, I would wager, probably coastal First Nations are going to be involved, but again, there

00:02:22.000 hasn't been any names, and as for a proponent for the pipeline going forward, we're still waiting to

00:02:26.540 see if anyone from the private sector is going to sort of step up to the plate. Well, let's talk a little

00:02:31.860 bit more about the carbon capture. In the last couple of months here at the Western Standard,

00:02:38.220 we've run a couple of articles talking about the grand cost of the grand bargain, and the bargain

00:02:46.380 was always that, yes, the federal government would facilitate a pipeline to the coast, but they would

00:02:54.320 have to carry what they called at first decarbonized oil, and I noticed they're not calling it that

00:03:00.780 anymore. I sound a bit ridiculous. But at any rate, the point was that in order for the oil to be 0.92

00:03:07.200 acceptable, they were going to have to bury, pump down through the strata to a deep well, all the

00:03:16.360 carbon dioxide that it took to produce that oil, or an equivalent amount. It does absolutely nothing

00:03:23.940 for anybody, and yet that was the deal. So, question. It's very expensive. I hear numbers

00:03:32.400 like $16 billion for the Pathways Alliance project to actually go ahead. We know it works. It's been

00:03:40.020 working in Weyburn. You can do this. This is not science fiction, but it's the economics of it.

00:03:44.960 And I think $16 billion was mentioned in the press release this morning.

00:03:51.380 16.5, yeah.

00:03:52.380 16.5.

00:03:53.420 Well, there you are. Who pays for that?

00:03:56.420 Well, realistically, they're talking about the Pathways Alliance companies, but there's, again,

00:04:01.820 no set actual person, but they say the government's going to probably pay for it, which means you and

00:04:06.920 me, the taxpayer, because again, there's no private proponent yet, as far as we know of.

00:04:11.240 Well, even a private proponent is going to face this issue. Where is the market for decarbonized

00:04:20.880 oil? I mean, Canada, apparently, at least in Western Canada, not in Eastern Canada, but in

00:04:26.940 Western Canada, it's very important that we have the oil that is clean.

00:04:33.340 Well, we also have the most ethical.

00:04:35.500 The ethical, right. Well, are there countries elsewhere in the world where,

00:04:41.240 they're saying, you know, if only we could get ethical oil, that's what we would buy.

00:04:46.280 And, you know, we'd be prepared to pay more for it, you know, main three.

00:04:50.880 I can't think of a single one, to be honest with you, Nigel, because realistically speaking,

00:04:54.000 when's economics ever actually cared about ethics?

00:04:56.080 If someone could find a cheaper alternative or option, they always go for it.

00:04:59.160 That's why there's talk now about the Americans possibly having a regime change or bring about

00:05:03.560 a regime change in Venezuela to have maybe a cheaper source of heavy crude oil going forward.

00:05:07.380 So instead of maybe like Albertan oil going down to the Gulf Coast refineries, they might

00:05:11.880 get some now from Venezuela and possibly shut us up. 0.99

00:05:13.920 But again, that's depending on whether or not what happens in Venezuela in the next couple

00:05:17.300 of days. But back to your question in terms of decarbonized oil, there's not too many

00:05:21.920 people that are, there's not really a big global demand for it per se right now.

00:05:25.180 The Asian markets are just looking for whatever they can get, especially China and Japan. 0.53

00:05:28.840 And so if there is any time for it, there isn't really, no.

00:05:31.020 So I think it's just basically just kind of the green agenda, green climate agenda again

00:05:34.940 from the feds. And there's really no substance to it.

00:05:37.020 And there's really no customers for it going forward, as far as I can tell.

00:05:39.520 Are any other countries even interested anymore in the green agenda?

00:05:47.020 I mean, we've just come off COP30 in Brazil, a conference of the parties.

00:05:51.120 And it's all about, you know, saving the world and cutting the carbon dioxide.

00:05:56.760 I don't see any of that being reenacted in the home lands.

00:06:00.960 Well, there isn't, because some of the biggest proponents for the European Union, I remember

00:06:04.680 Germany, Finland, Sweden, they're all going away from that.

00:06:07.560 Now, I remember Germany was trying to go clean energy quite a few years ago, and that

00:06:10.600 didn't work, so they started going back to coal plants and whatnot.

00:06:13.320 So I don't really think there is going forward.

00:06:15.460 No, Nigel.

00:06:16.260 No.

00:06:17.040 Okay, so we're still going to do it.

00:06:18.960 So we're going to end up with this.

00:06:20.980 I'm not an economy.

00:06:22.000 I'm not an energy economist.

00:06:23.260 And I, therefore, I'm not going to be bold enough to say how much more it's going to

00:06:28.660 add to the cost of a barrel of oil to pump this carbon underground, but it's going to

00:06:37.120 be more.

00:06:38.220 So it's going to be uncompetitive.

00:06:40.440 Now, presently, we don't have a pipeline proponent.

00:06:43.620 Strictly speaking, the person who owns the pipeline is not the one who's going to be paying

00:06:49.800 this anyway, but I have a feeling that the demand might not be that great.

00:06:56.200 In which case, where is the pipeline proponent coming from?

00:07:01.040 Have you any idea about people waiting in the wings?

00:07:04.820 Well, that's the thing.

00:07:05.960 We haven't really heard any rumors about it.

00:07:07.900 I mean, they've, well, I can't even actually say there is any rumors because I haven't heard

00:07:11.800 anything from any sources saying that there's empty discussions.

00:07:14.800 There's been no pipeline companies, any major companies in Canada.

00:07:17.740 And quite frankly, why would there be at this time?

00:07:19.960 Because look what happened with Trans Mountain.

00:07:21.440 Prices kept going up and up and up.

00:07:23.320 And yesterday, the Insura did their state of industry lunch.

00:07:26.720 There was a bunch of oil and gas industry experts there.

00:07:29.120 And they were basically saying no company has a blank check at the moment just to throw

00:07:32.380 money into this pipeline unless they have actual assurances going forward.

00:07:36.600 Because they don't really know with regulations.

00:07:37.860 They talked about the tanker ban getting repealed.

00:07:40.380 That's not going to happen.

00:07:41.240 Apparently, according to today, there's going to be some modifications, which we have no idea

00:07:44.840 what those will be.

00:07:45.460 Carney didn't really specify.

00:07:46.460 Now that Danielle Smith, so we don't exactly know.

00:07:49.520 See, that's one of the things about this whole days of speeches and press releases.

00:07:55.020 They use words like modifications.

00:07:57.980 And we spring to the conclusion, well, obviously, you know, I mean, stands to reason the modification

00:08:04.160 must be that you're going to let tankers come in perhaps to a certain part of the coast

00:08:09.660 where the refinery is or where the end of the pipeline is.

00:08:16.540 But nobody said that.

00:08:18.300 We just assume that.

00:08:19.620 No, there's no actual route set either.

00:08:21.400 Because this morning in a briefing, some senior government officials said that they were still

00:08:25.220 working on what the route was even going to be from Alberta to the coast.

00:08:28.220 So they don't even have that planned out yet.

00:08:29.700 They're still working on that.

00:08:30.740 And according to them as well, I believe that there is going to be a date, a deadline of

00:08:35.840 April 1st, or no, July 1st, sorry, next year, that they have to have the pipeline application

00:08:41.180 sent into the major project's office.

00:08:43.480 So we have no idea what will happen if they fail to meet that deadline.

00:08:46.860 Because again, nothing's set in stone yet.

00:08:49.140 So it's just all still up in the air, really.

00:08:50.720 Well, that makes you stop to ask, why are we doing this?

00:08:58.520 Why is Mr. Carney doing it?

00:09:01.280 It's very easy for us to be so focused on Alberta and to question the reasoning of the

00:09:08.680 provincial government, of the oil companies who are based here, who have been noisily supportive,

00:09:16.780 but not actually committing to anything, because there's nothing to commit to, really, at the

00:09:23.960 moment.

00:09:25.120 What's Mr. Carney getting out of this?

00:09:28.360 Oh, that's a good question.

00:09:30.520 Free publicity, I guess.

00:09:31.820 Not that he really needs any.

00:09:33.100 What was it that the conservative leader, Pierre Paulyev, said in the House today?

00:09:38.500 Oh, he basically just said that it was just another PR, basically just PR sort of stunt

00:09:42.260 from the liberals to basically look like they're doing something when they're not really

00:09:44.760 doing anything.

00:09:45.220 And I would happen to agree with that, because like I said, if you're going to have this sort

00:09:48.900 of actual set agreement, well, there has to be a set route.

00:09:51.480 Don't have that.

00:09:52.540 They say it has to be privately owned.

00:09:54.180 We don't have a company that's even come forward or even said they'd be willing to talk

00:09:57.060 about this.

00:09:57.720 So realistically, I don't know what you could say offhand that Carney's getting at this,

00:10:01.660 except maybe to get Alberta off his back and Daniel Smith off his back, because for

00:10:05.300 the last, how many months has it been now?

00:10:07.440 Three months, four months, they've talked about this memorandum of understanding and we're

00:10:10.340 going to get it done.

00:10:11.120 And originally it was going to be for Grey Cup weekend.

00:10:13.020 That got pushed back and now we finally have something.

00:10:15.760 But it's, well, realistically, it's a bit much ado about nothing, a lot of it, because

00:10:19.660 there's no real set things in stone and concrete, really, for the most part, except the fact

00:10:23.940 that there's going to be all the clean electricity regulations are getting taken off, no emissions

00:10:28.460 cap.

00:10:29.420 But that's about it.

00:10:30.080 In terms of actual pipeline, don't totally know.

00:10:32.360 Well, OK, so Mr. Carney wants, you know, as you put it, to get Daniel Smith off his back.

00:10:41.140 I can see why that would be a win for him to go back and say, well, we have this memorandum

00:10:48.120 of understanding.

00:10:50.120 It's only a memorandum of understanding, folks.

00:10:53.380 Everybody relax.

00:10:55.040 B.C., Quebec, both of whom have expressed a strong antipathy to what's going on here

00:11:02.740 in Calgary today.

00:11:06.480 Question, though, is there something else that Daniel Smith could have or should have done?

00:11:13.640 I don't really think you can say that there's probably anything she could have done, because

00:11:19.580 she herself said in her conference today that this agreement addresses seven of the nine

00:11:24.280 bad laws that she's been criticizing heavily from the Carney administration, which goes back

00:11:28.680 to Trudeau's administration as well.

00:11:31.240 I don't really know what you could say that she could have done, because, I mean, realistically,

00:11:35.940 she got them to agree that, yes, we are understanding that you want a pipeline.

00:11:40.100 Yes, we know it wants to go to B.C.

00:11:41.780 Now they're going to start talking to Evie.

00:11:43.240 That's been confirmed.

00:11:44.200 He said that he talked to them earlier today and yesterday, her and Carney.

00:11:48.600 The possibility of anything else, really, at this stage, I mean, apart from just coming

00:11:53.340 out and saying that there is indeed private sector commitment from a specific company,

00:11:57.180 I don't really know what else she could have done now, for the most part.

00:12:00.280 Well, I mean, what if she had done nothing at all?

00:12:02.200 As you said, Mr. Carney remains very against energy development in Alberta.

00:12:11.620 Anything that he promises is conditional, and so we don't take it seriously.

00:12:18.980 We still have our nine demands, but do you think she could have done that?

00:12:24.920 There is that possibility, but I was just thinking as well that maybe her even just getting Carney

00:12:29.160 to the table to sign on something might actually get somebody to step up now because after,

00:12:34.220 as I said, months of them talking and nothing happening, maybe now that they've actually put

00:12:37.960 pen to paper, maybe now they'll have actual companies come out and say, hmm, okay, maybe

00:12:42.100 we'll start talking to them.

00:12:43.160 Maybe they'll start reaching out.

00:12:44.140 So there is maybe that.

00:12:45.500 It's maybe just a show of good faith, maybe, going forward for people to maybe come in

00:12:49.660 that might want to actually invest with Alberta. 0.55

00:12:53.060 So the deal would be that they don't have to worry about the cost of pumping carbon dioxide

00:12:59.540 underground.

00:13:01.100 So although the oil might actually be more expensive to produce, they can still sell it

00:13:06.260 at the world price?

00:13:07.100 Is that the deal?

00:13:08.800 Possibly.

00:13:09.420 I guess we'll just have to see going forward.

00:13:10.660 Wow, that's a, that's a, now I noticed that the Quebec has come out very strongly against

00:13:17.400 it.

00:13:18.740 Quebec, it's back there.

00:13:20.120 Why would they care?

00:13:22.620 Oh, well, I guess because they've been constantly against pipelines for years with us, obviously,

00:13:28.380 going forward.

00:13:30.140 I think it was today, oh God, what was his name?

00:13:33.040 The minister.

00:13:33.460 He was saying that, I think originally in the past that Alberta's pipeline and Alberta's

00:13:36.960 oil sands were basically poisoning the world, if I remember correctly.

00:13:40.020 I think that was about like a month or so ago he came out and said that.

00:13:42.260 Oh, they've been saying that for years.

00:13:43.240 Oh, yeah.

00:13:44.440 No, I don't, I think, I don't really know where to begin with them because honestly at

00:13:50.240 this stage, it just seems like, yeah, it doesn't affect them in the least.

00:13:53.240 I just feel like maybe they have some projects in the works that they want pushed forward

00:13:56.620 that this might take away maybe sort of Carney's, what's the word I'm going to be looking for

00:14:03.140 here?

00:14:03.600 Maybe have Carney actually like look towards their direction, if that makes any sort of sense.

00:14:07.820 But I really don't know what that would be for the time.

00:14:10.020 I mean, if they have anything in the woodwork in terms of new pipelines or anything going

00:14:13.040 to the East Coast, because Energy East is totally dead.

00:14:15.440 So I don't really know what that would be, Nigel.

00:14:17.160 Well, I wonder if that's, if they're just taking the point of view that, look, BC evidently

00:14:24.680 doesn't want this.

00:14:25.980 No.

00:14:26.740 Okay.

00:14:27.080 So if Mr. Carney uses the federal prerogative, which he is legally entitled to do, and forces

00:14:34.920 this across BC, well, then maybe he would do the same thing in Quebec.

00:14:41.680 There's a good possibility.

00:14:43.000 Mais non.

00:14:43.800 C'est impossible.

00:14:45.400 No.

00:14:45.980 Sure no.

00:14:46.500 So I guess they're thinking that if they let this, take this lying down, if they don't

00:14:51.740 stake out a position, they might be next.

00:14:53.460 Well, there is that possibility, too, and there's the possibility that David Evey could

00:14:56.940 as well use a constitutional veto against any project.

00:14:59.920 That was kind of floated about today, but there is no, like, really set thing on whether

00:15:03.780 or not that's possible yet.

00:15:05.120 That was just kind of floated by certain sources and whatnot today.

00:15:08.020 I'm still...

00:15:08.540 I'm still...

00:15:08.560 So what the constitutional veto...

00:15:10.860 Well, that's what I was trying to figure out as well, exactly, because they were just

00:15:13.600 saying, hey, this goes against their interest in the...

00:15:15.540 You know, let's get a bag of them here in Alberta if they're available.

00:15:18.680 Oh, exactly.

00:15:19.180 I think they were just putting that out to see what your reaction would be, but who

00:15:23.920 knows?

00:15:24.300 I have a feeling that we've had this discussion within the last three months.

00:15:29.840 It is not the first time, of course, that Mr. Evey has declared his opposition to a pipeline,

00:15:37.180 and at the time, I think the new energy minister, Hudson, said something along the lines of,

00:15:44.500 well, you know, you guys in Alberta are just going to have to work it out with B.C.

00:15:47.940 We're not...

00:15:49.240 And yet, when there's something that the federal government wants to contradict the Constitution

00:15:56.000 on that involves Alberta, they assert all kinds of powers that don't actually exist.

00:16:01.800 And then the premier of Alberta says, well, they're driving in our lane, and we have that

00:16:06.440 discussion, but when it's B.C., is it perhaps the slender majority with which he is working,

00:16:16.140 and he's worried about the loyalty of those liberal MPs who, you know, are far too precious

00:16:25.620 to burn fuel to make carbon dioxide and walk everywhere and, you know, take the train to

00:16:33.800 Ottawa, I don't know, I'm being a little facetious here, but there's something that makes Ottawa,

00:16:41.600 more particularly, the liberal government, slow to be forceful with British Columbia and

00:16:49.000 Quebec, but quite ready to put the boots to Alberta.

00:16:53.880 I would definitely say that's the case, absolutely.

00:16:56.220 So what do you make of the fact that Mr. Ford, premier of Ontario, has weighed in on Alberta's

00:17:01.800 size, oh, this is great, we need to do this?

00:17:04.100 Well, I think he's basically just speaking for the vast majority of Canadians, because

00:17:07.160 there's been polls that have come out recently that say, I think it's just over 70% or more

00:17:11.980 of Canadians are actually in favor of a pipeline to the West Coast, because people basically

00:17:16.820 just want a better economy.

00:17:18.760 And what's that mean?

00:17:19.440 They want a new pipeline?

00:17:20.620 That means more jobs?

00:17:22.460 It means more revenue?

00:17:23.400 So why wouldn't he be?

00:17:24.560 Because I think that he's a businessman as well.

00:17:26.340 So is Daniel Smith.

00:17:27.140 I think they are all for business, and I don't really see at this stage of the game, with

00:17:30.920 the economy just around the world and the geopolitical situation that's going on just

00:17:34.320 in general around the globe, white people wouldn't want more jobs and a better economy 0.59

00:17:38.500 overall.

00:17:41.500 You're talking perfect sense.

00:17:43.280 I just wonder why that perfect sense is so hard to hear coming from the central government,

00:17:51.800 from the federal government, you know, I was very struck.

00:17:57.700 I think I mentioned this in my column on the matter this morning, that Mr. Carney wants

00:18:03.900 to make Canada an energy superpower.

00:18:06.180 You've said that many a time.

00:18:07.720 And yet, do you make an energy superpower by sticking the taxpayers with the cost?

00:18:17.840 No.

00:18:18.160 And furthermore, in what sense is Canada not an energy superpower already?

00:18:25.520 97%, I'm checking the numbers this morning, 97% of the oil produced in Canada comes out

00:18:31.620 of Alberta Wells, or out of the oil sense.

00:18:35.140 All right.

00:18:36.200 We are, apparently, the fourth largest producer of oil in the world.

00:18:42.900 Now, I don't know whether that's enough to make us a superpower, but it's certainly a

00:18:46.640 power, and yet somehow or other, because we have this ridiculous commitment to doing it

00:18:54.320 all without generating carbon dioxide, we're holding ourselves back.

00:19:01.060 Lift the lid, and we could increase oil production by 50% by 2030, I'm told.

00:19:07.000 Yeah.

00:19:07.100 What is it, 4 billion barrels a day at the moment?

00:19:09.500 It is, yeah.

00:19:10.180 Okay.

00:19:10.700 And 6 billion is possible?

00:19:12.660 That is possible, yeah.

00:19:14.860 That would be well on the way to an energy superpower.

00:19:18.520 You would think so.

00:19:19.180 You would think so, wouldn't you?

00:19:20.360 And yet, somehow, it's got to be done with, you know, one hand and four more fingers tied

00:19:27.460 behind your back.

00:19:28.460 That's about it, really.

00:19:29.180 It's a funny old world we live in, David.

00:19:33.520 What happens next?

00:19:35.660 What happens next?

00:19:36.920 Well, that's the milli-dollar question, I guess.

00:19:39.160 Going past the convention tomorrow.

00:19:42.000 Going past the convention?

00:19:42.760 Well, that's actually going to be very interesting, because that's basically going to be the talk

00:19:45.200 of the town up in Edmonton for the next weekend.

00:19:47.760 But, yeah, no, basically...

00:19:48.980 Well, just the talk of the town, what would you anticipate being the reaction of the party

00:19:53.960 membership to this?

00:19:55.240 Oh, I think it's going to be split down the middle, because I think it's going to basically

00:19:58.180 be the people that are loyal to Smith will say that, yeah, we're finally making progress,

00:20:02.220 because, as she's even said herself, Trudeau would have never signed on to this.

00:20:05.580 So, Carney's at least actually open to talking about this.

00:20:08.800 So, there is them that will probably back her.

00:20:10.980 But I do know that a lot of the people from the Alberta independence movement, like the

00:20:15.220 Alberta Prosperity Project and that, they think this whole thing is basically just

00:20:18.540 a waste of time, and this isn't going to change anything.

00:20:20.840 And I know that a bunch of them are going to be there on the weekend, so we might

00:20:23.380 have a little butting heads and whatnot, I think, in Edmonton between those two groups

00:20:27.060 going forward over what happened at the Memorandum of Understanding today.

00:20:30.300 David, you're going to be there, aren't you?

00:20:31.700 Oh, it should be fun.

00:20:32.840 Yeah.

00:20:33.260 So, you'll be reporting live from the floor, I'm sure.

00:20:37.300 Yeah, that's the plan.

00:20:38.600 You'll be looking out for who says what.

00:20:41.540 I suppose we will.

00:20:42.380 Well, I have, I can never keep up with some of these psychological terms.

00:20:46.980 How many stages of grief are there?

00:20:50.100 Oh, five or six?

00:20:51.120 Five or six.

00:20:52.980 Production says five.

00:20:54.280 I'm going to go with five.

00:20:56.260 How long did it take you to go through all five stages of grief when you heard that Minister

00:21:03.240 Gilboa had resigned from cabinet?

00:21:05.980 I don't know if they even re-staved one, to be honest.

00:21:12.400 What are these stages of joy are there, Nigel?

00:21:14.060 I guess it's back to climbing the CN Tower.

00:21:17.420 He's done what he can, and now he's been.

00:21:20.080 One more, actually it's interesting to see how the Trudeau-era cabinet is basically being

00:21:25.820 one by one.

00:21:26.620 Yeah.

00:21:26.920 They're being recycled out, and it will be, we won't be able to use that line about,

00:21:33.080 oh, this is just Trudeau's people with a new leader.

00:21:35.340 And he's actually, we've got rid of, well, Gilboa, Melanie Jolie is apparently on the

00:21:44.200 way out.

00:21:44.980 Freeland's gone?

00:21:45.960 Yep.

00:21:46.720 So, you know, it's a new team.

00:21:49.700 Perhaps there'll be a new approach.

00:21:52.580 I wouldn't put money on it.

00:21:54.340 I wouldn't.

00:21:54.780 There's always a glimmer of hope, isn't there?

00:21:56.100 But maybe there's a glimmer of hope, and I certainly hope for all our sakes that it turns

00:22:01.220 into more than a glimmer.

00:22:02.480 Me too.

00:22:02.820 David, I really appreciate you coming on the show today.

00:22:05.040 Thanks, Nigel.

00:22:06.020 Great work.

00:22:06.700 Good luck with the convention tomorrow.

00:22:08.600 Yeah.

00:22:09.000 All right.

00:22:09.560 It brings.

00:22:10.220 Yeah.

00:22:10.880 Thanks very much for coming again.

00:22:12.460 Appreciate it.

00:22:13.900 For the Western Standard, I'm Nigel Hannaford.

00:22:16.500 Thank you.

Western Standard - December 03, 2025

HANNAFORD： Ottawa blinks as Smith forces historic energy retreat

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