Western Standard - HANNAFORD： The terrible cost of transitioning comes later

00:00:00.000 good evening western standard viewers and welcome to hanaford a weekly politics show

00:00:22.880 my guests this week are faith growlow and kelly lynn

00:00:27.200 Piri. And before I go any further, I should warn viewers that some of this may be hard to watch.

00:00:36.340 Faith and Kelly Lynn are women who transitioned to present themselves as males, regretted it, 0.79

00:00:44.520 and have transitioned back again. The experience has been difficult, painful,

00:00:51.060 and a profound well of regret for both of them and they are not back where they started

00:00:59.040 that is it is not now all as if it had never happened for the benefit of others however

00:01:07.540 they join me today to tell their stories faith kelly lynn welcome to the show thank you

00:01:15.140 can i start with you uh just tell us please what happened so i was gender questioning by about 15

00:01:24.260 years old i had found a show called i am jazz and so science was telling me that this little boy

00:01:29.860 could be a little girl and i believed that the doctors wouldn't do it if it wasn't okay

00:01:34.740 so i was justified in my thinking that going against my religious family was okay that their

00:01:41.140 concerns were just because they were old fuddy duddies and they didn't know what they were

00:01:44.980 talking about so by 16 i was seeing doctors and i was given puberty blockers by 17 and 18 i had

00:01:52.980 been approved for top surgery and i was given testosterone which is the cross-sex or wrong sex 0.89

00:01:58.340 hormone for me and by 18 i had aged out of the clinic because it was specifically for youth so

00:02:05.540 the doctors who diagnosed me and prescribed my medications did not follow up with me i was deemed

00:02:10.820 a successful transition to them. However by 2020 because of COVID the testosterone I was getting

00:02:17.300 they ran out of the vials so I had to get a more expensive medication that I couldn't afford. So I

00:02:23.700 was changing medications without much supervision and then it was changing the dosage as well

00:02:29.860 without much supervision. By 22 years old I realized I didn't need to rush and I really

00:02:36.100 wasn't using it consistently so I stopped all medications and I around 23 24 found some

00:02:46.100 information that basically solidified the idea to me that my doctors didn't really know what they

00:02:50.660 were doing essentially allowed me to diagnose myself incorrectly and just affirmed that rather

00:02:57.140 than actually questioning any of it and so I began to detransition April of this year actually

00:03:03.780 and started to come back out as my natural self.

00:03:08.020 What does it mean to detransition?

00:03:10.680 Stopping all medications and no longer further pursuing any surgical or chemical changes.

00:03:17.100 I believe you told me earlier that you had not had any kind of surgery.

00:03:23.160 Correct.

00:03:23.680 Okay. Kelly Lynn, can I ask you then, please, what's your story?

00:03:29.140 I grew up, I'm an adult who lives with a history of childhood sexual exploitation.

00:03:34.900 In that house, there was a lot of abuse, drugs, and alcohol.

00:03:38.540 When my mother left her pedophile husband, he went to jail for sexually interfering with me. 0.87

00:03:48.000 Then she got back together with my biological dad. 0.92

00:03:50.760 He also was an alcoholic.

00:03:52.040 my 20s my 30s were cycles of drugs alcohol sobriety relapse and just circling in that

00:04:01.780 in my early 30s in 2002 I got cleaner sober and uh in that process I the degree of social anxiety

00:04:13.820 um the discomfort I was living in women's support recovery and it felt like the emotions of the

00:04:20.100 people around me were just happening to me. And I met some individuals who were transitioning

00:04:26.320 themselves. And I was asking them about it. And they're like, oh, people who question,

00:04:35.120 like, you're wondering if you really are a woman. And the only people who are trans

00:04:41.140 question that. And then when I spoke with it, my drug and alcohol counselor about that,

00:04:46.280 She was in what's called the affirmation model, so she affirmed that, of course, a man living in a sport recovery house would be incredibly uncomfortable.

00:04:55.380 It wasn't about my, like I look back now and I realize that I wasn't able to regulate my emotions around so many other people, so I was constantly trying to control the other women. 0.99

00:05:06.160 And so just affirming my discomfort with my sex as it being about the envy I had for men was this feeling of being a male.

00:05:19.400 Okay.

00:05:21.780 I think a lot of women do see advantages in being male. 1.00

00:05:28.500 You have obviously both looked at it from a male point of view as well as a female view.

00:05:35.140 how would you answer them if they said to you oh so i want to be a man because and then cited off

00:05:42.580 all these advantages that they perceive i'll start again with you um i would first ask if

00:05:49.460 they know all of the risks truly of what they might be doing to themselves which unfortunately

00:05:55.540 you can't possibly because we haven't had proper clinical trials so nobody really knows long term

00:06:01.300 And what happens to kids who are on these drugs and any information we have is not great.

00:06:08.300 And how would you answer them, Kayleigh?

00:06:13.140 What motivates men to do the things they do, to make the sacrifices they make for their career, is very different than what motivates women. 0.55

00:06:22.860 I learned that during my years as a long-haul trucker.

00:06:25.460 I was in a specialized industry where 90% of my colleagues were men.

00:06:29.400 and so you were a truck driver as a woman no when i looked like a man when i had six inch beard

00:06:35.220 all of my co-workers thought i was a man um i really learned that men and women think very

00:06:43.140 differently about stuff i'd worked there for about five years and one of my colleagues commented

00:06:47.460 that you realize my legal name then was kenneth so he's like you realize ken that we are all very

00:06:54.180 afraid of you and I'm like why I'm like so calm so easygoing he's like exactly no one has even

00:07:00.920 seen you mildly upset so they were convinced that if they ever upset me I would just explode because

00:07:09.420 I've never been in the hierarchy and figuring out where guys get mildly upset and aggressive

00:07:14.580 towards each other and they figure out where they are in the QE and of my 45 co-workers nobody knew

00:07:20.980 where I was in the QA. So it was a moment of going, men think about things very differently

00:07:26.700 than women do. Even looking like a man, even being on testosterone, I didn't understand 1.00

00:07:31.740 their world and their worldview. I don't want to make light of this in any way, but who knew?

00:07:39.560 This is such an important decision that especially a young person would make,

00:07:47.020 that you've told us that the doctors didn't give you very good advice.

00:07:53.940 You've said that your parents were, you described them as old-fashioned

00:07:58.500 fuddy-duddies who went to church. 0.97

00:08:00.520 I can imagine what their advice to you would have been.

00:08:06.600 And then you mentioned a program that you had seen, a jazz or something.

00:08:11.680 I am jazz.

00:08:12.920 I am jazz.

00:08:13.760 What is that?

00:08:15.060 So Jazz Jennings is an individual who was transitioned when they were younger.

00:08:19.480 Born a boy, about two years old.

00:08:22.880 Mom saw a little boy dressing in dresses, playing dress-up with his sisters,

00:08:27.080 and said, oh dear, he must be a girl.

00:08:32.440 And ended up taking him to doctors who transitioned him at a very, very young age,

00:08:36.300 started to do ray blockers, gave the cross-sex hormones, eventually had surgeries.

00:08:40.900 This was all televised on TLC.

00:08:43.540 all of it all of the surgeries a 17 year old little kid so it that made it seem very very

00:08:53.380 normal and commonplace not only that doctors were doing this surgery but it was being televised like

00:08:58.580 it was nothing you know and jazz seems extremely happy in these videos for the most part because

00:09:04.980 that's how it's supposed to be portrayed where is he now um off yeah yeah there's been some

00:09:14.100 emotional issues um even in the shows nearing the end of it it was seeming like this poor kid didn't

00:09:21.540 know who they were and didn't feel like themselves and mom just kept saying oh no it's okay you're

00:09:27.140 exactly who we say you are don't worry about it it's okay like it there was no attempt at dealing

00:09:32.820 with the emotional distress it was just continue affirming whatever's been done

00:09:39.060 and that's just you know you can only do that for so long so he's a physiologically mature

00:09:46.820 20 early 20s right i think he's 19 20 yeah i believe he's younger than i am unable of experiencing

00:09:53.780 arousal like neurologically incapable from the drugs and the surgery so cannot mate bond with

00:10:04.600 another human being well that would seem to be first of all i think the scope and scale of this

00:10:11.920 is that around about the five-year period from 2018 to 2023 according to the government of

00:10:19.920 Canada, there were 600 young women under the age of 18 who had sexual reassignment surgery,

00:10:31.740 roughly half of which went the whole way.

00:10:39.340 What is the, how does it, what is available to, I think we do the surgery under the

00:10:48.960 provincial health programs but if you want to go back do they help you do that no okay so you're

00:10:57.600 uh what sort of expenses are you involved with to transition back to a woman you were well what's

00:11:05.440 called breast restoration surgery i cannot access in british columbia without the approval of the

00:11:12.960 Transcare BC. So my doctor will be, I'm in the stage of getting the paperwork together. My doctor

00:11:20.440 will send an application into Transcare BC, the people in charge of transitioning, to request

00:11:28.000 that I be allowed to have access to surgery to restore the appearance of having breasts 0.79

00:11:35.160 because I had a complete bilateral mastectomy in 2008.

00:11:41.620 So, okay.

00:11:45.280 What are the physiological effects when you transition?

00:11:51.320 What do you experience?

00:11:52.500 How does your way of life change?

00:11:54.980 And then how does it change again when you transition back?

00:12:00.360 You were just on the chemicals.

00:12:03.380 I'm going to ask you about yours in a moment.

00:12:05.160 How does it go?

00:12:09.000 Essentially, for me, I had already started puberty by the time I was 16, so they shouldn't have given me puberty blockers anyway.

00:12:16.680 And so when they did, it completely interrupted the puberty I had already started going through.

00:12:21.580 I went through menopause.

00:12:23.900 I was then given testosterone, which is a known carcinogen, and it forces you to go through a male-like puberty, 0.95

00:12:33.180 which I got a deeper voice. My facial hair and body hair started growing in darker and thicker.

00:12:41.740 I gained more muscle mass and it was distributed differently than it would be for a woman,

00:12:48.220 which made me fit differently in clothes. But the problem is male clothes still didn't fit

00:12:52.620 properly because I had the bone structure of a woman because I didn't get the puberty blockers

00:12:56.700 before puberty. So that didn't really help anything. My balance actually went funny,

00:13:05.660 because if you're on puberty blockers and testosterone, your breasts essentially deflate, 1.00

00:13:09.980 and I was also using a chest binder, so it made them squish down. So my center of balance

00:13:14.860 actually got shifted. Puberty blockers, because I did not finish out my puberty properly,

00:13:21.660 it stunted my physical growth, my emotional and mental growth. It actually keeps you stuck in

00:13:26.620 a teenage-like state mentally because you don't grow up to be able to make those long-term

00:13:32.060 decisions because you're suppressing all of the hormones that are supposed to help you do that

00:13:37.340 with me i actually was fortunate i ended up going off of the blockers a little early

00:13:42.780 because i was on birth control which did something similar but the doctors still

00:13:46.380 didn't really know what they were doing just kind of let me do what i wanted and experiment on myself

00:13:51.020 um and so when i went off of the puberty blockers my my system kind of kick-started again a little

00:13:59.140 bit uh so then i came out of menopause got to go through it backwards again um and then once i was

00:14:06.080 off of testosterone uh i ended up trying to finish out puberty i'm still in the midst of doing that

00:14:12.680 in my 20s and i'm realizing my joints haven't fused properly i may have incontinence issues

00:14:18.920 because i've gone in and out of menopause now and so my pelvic floor may be weakened i may have

00:14:23.880 liver problems potentially that's a common side effect now that's the testosterone yes

00:14:30.280 uh and then there's also the option of the spinal cord doesn't fuse properly all the time

00:14:36.040 and so there are people who get compression fractures because of that because they're

00:14:39.000 not getting the proper hormones in there um i may also be infertile but we don't know that until i

00:14:46.280 actually try to have kids i'm very optimistic that i'm fortunate enough not to be but you know we

00:14:53.320 don't actually know until i try it but yeah and i'm one of the luckier ones like i i have come

00:15:00.440 out essentially unscathed in a lot of instances compared to that so you know so the worst case

00:15:05.720 for those who did not come out unscathed exactly in a few words what um so there were some people

00:15:13.000 that i was transitioned at the same time as who have now since attempted to detransition or desist

00:15:18.440 but the government would only cover the actual tissue removal if you didn't have the money to

00:15:24.840 cover the reconstruction part then you're a girl now with no breasts or nipples um some of them 0.69

00:15:32.360 also will have hysterectomies some of them will have a phallus made um there is someone in the

00:15:40.120 States, Scott Nugent, what they go by, born a female, was transitioned as an adult, made these 0.62

00:15:48.000 decisions as an adult, and through all of the surgeries, ended up with horrendous infections

00:15:52.580 that almost killed them several times, are now still killing them. The forearm that the

00:15:57.820 ballast was made out of is now not functional properly, and they get chronic infections in

00:16:04.300 the arm, and the hand that's attached to that arm, they may have to lose that as well.

00:16:07.860 And these are decisions that an adult made, and now we're giving those complications to children.

00:16:13.500 Were you ever suicidal?

00:16:17.180 Yes, they weaponized that completely.

00:16:20.040 So were you suicidal because you wanted to be a different gender, or were there other issues?

00:16:30.640 There were several other issues that were overlooked.

00:16:32.580 So those issues were not properly diagnosed.

00:16:34.840 and you were allowed against the wishes of your parents

00:16:39.460 who would have been the most interested in your welfare.

00:16:43.500 Did teachers have a role in this at all?

00:16:46.500 Fortunately not, but I was surrounded by a lot of people

00:16:50.800 who were very into the affirmation model

00:16:53.240 and our teachers had the signs of it's a safe space and all inclusion

00:16:57.420 and there were actually several trans individuals

00:17:00.220 in the schools that I was around.

00:17:02.920 So I was exposed to it,

00:17:04.220 But then there was also a local group of, there was one trans adult and a supportive adult.

00:17:11.540 They had a youth group, basically, like a support group for gender questioning or trans youth.

00:17:17.040 And it was specifically for 17 and under.

00:17:19.580 Is there anybody who could have headed you off from the course of action that you took?

00:17:24.240 The doctors, absolutely.

00:17:26.340 The doctors.

00:17:28.880 Is it that they don't know or that they don't care?

00:17:31.340 I presume don't care.

00:17:32.660 don't care to know

00:17:34.460 I see

00:17:35.360 Kelly Lynn

00:17:38.380 you've heard

00:17:39.900 a story probably not for the first time

00:17:43.500 and what's your comment on

00:17:44.740 what she experienced

00:17:46.520 as you reflect upon your own

00:17:48.980 well in a similar way as an adult

00:17:51.460 there's so much information

00:17:53.420 they didn't give me

00:17:54.100 like they didn't tell me that

00:17:56.180 they told me that taking testosterone

00:17:58.740 I'd have the same health risks as a male 0.99

00:18:00.920 as any other male actually

00:18:03.440 Women on testosterone, especially with me, I have obesity. 0.99

00:18:07.180 I have a highly elevated risk of type 2 diabetes,

00:18:10.160 which I now have and I'll live with for the rest of my life.

00:18:12.860 They didn't talk about how our secondary sex...

00:18:17.200 Let's stop you there. 0.97

00:18:17.980 Were these doctors in general practice or are these specialists in this field?

00:18:23.540 Endocrinologists.

00:18:24.460 So these, they should have known?

00:18:26.920 Yes.

00:18:27.360 And should have told you?

00:18:28.440 Yes.

00:18:28.780 They would have known and they should have...

00:18:30.920 Yeah, they should have informed me and discussed with me because I already had.

00:18:34.460 I asked what are the health risks, and I was specifically going to an endocrinologist

00:18:46.040 because I already had hypothyroidism, which is considered an autoimmune disease,

00:18:54.240 and type 2 diabetes is also considered an autoimmune disease.

00:18:57.740 So the proper course of action when a doctor is prescribing a new medication

00:19:07.180 or a medication off-label, when they observe something out of the normal,

00:19:12.080 is to inform the pharmaceutical company that owns the patent.

00:19:17.160 This is what I'm seeing in my patient population.

00:19:19.960 It appears that that is not happening as it's intended to happen in this field.

00:19:29.020 And the WPATH files indicated the degree to which WPATH discourages the endocrinologist it trains from doing this

00:19:41.060 because they were actually discussing instances of liver cancer in females taking testosterone.

00:19:46.540 We are almost out of time, which is a dreadful shame, because this is a very, very deep subject.

00:19:56.540 But I do want to ask you particularly, Faith, what you think of the legislation recently put before the Alberta legislature,

00:20:11.540 legislature which would restrict children under the age of 18 from receiving the first of all

00:20:22.040 surgery and I think under the age of 17 from receiving the kind of chemical interventions

00:20:27.580 that you yourself received. Are we doing a good thing here or are we sentencing frustrated young

00:20:36.580 people to kill themselves because they can't change sex when they want to. I believe the 1.00

00:20:42.020 legislations would have helped because the doctors would have been forced to do a proper

00:20:45.400 cognitive assessment. And if the doctors actually treat the suicidal ideation and the root cause of

00:20:50.920 that, for one, a lot of these kids may not even be trans in the first place. And the ones who are 0.64

00:20:55.320 will learn how to live well-rounded lives before they even have to get any chemicals.

00:21:00.240 So by the time you were 18, you might not have wanted to do this?

00:21:05.940 No, absolutely.

00:21:07.280 I wasn't even sure when I went in.

00:21:08.860 I simply just said to my doctors, hey, I saw this thing online.

00:21:12.400 I think this might be what it is, but you're the expert, so let me know.

00:21:16.140 Do the testing and all that and figure it out.

00:21:18.260 But they didn't test me properly.

00:21:20.140 You don't just let somebody walk in and say, I have cancer.

00:21:22.460 Can I have chemo?

00:21:23.600 You don't give them chemo.

00:21:25.040 You have to do a test first.

00:21:26.260 But if you don't properly test them and just hand them out all the time, like the other thing as well, me getting these drugs when I wasn't supposed to have them, people who actually needed them now can't have them.

00:21:38.720 What kind of a test would have been appropriate for you?

00:21:42.120 Knowing I had other mental health issues.

00:21:45.440 Not presuming that me being sexualized when I was young was just happenstance.

00:21:53.100 Because that seems to be a common theme.

00:21:55.300 and they just bring it into the diagnostics as well,

00:21:58.240 saying that just seems to be a theme that's okay, though.

00:22:00.780 You're still trans. 0.94

00:22:01.740 And it's like, I wasn't, though.

00:22:03.980 And if they can make a mistake once, they can make a mistake again,

00:22:06.680 and that's just unfortunate.

00:22:08.080 They need to have a better system there.

00:22:11.480 Last thoughts, Kelly Lou?

00:22:16.820 Youth need an opportunity to pause and to think.

00:22:22.800 As an adult, I thought I was informed.

00:22:25.300 I had no idea how politicized the trans lobby has made research, and I am pleased to support

00:22:38.520 the policies of Premier Daniel Smith and her government and her stance to end the bullying,

00:22:48.100 especially in regards to the doctors and the researchers and the state of the research that

00:22:56.260 there once again be open debate about what's going on in the medical field and for it no

00:23:02.340 to no longer be politicized look this is i think you two are incredibly brave to

00:23:09.780 take your stories public and to stand out in the open and tell them knowing that there could very

00:23:16.420 well be people who are militantly opposed to what you are now message that you are now trying to

00:23:22.420 put out what is the name of your organization d trans alliance canada and you have many members

00:23:32.100 no i i've got a mailing list i've had a small group of people reaching out to me

00:23:39.220 the hardest part of getting something started is

00:23:42.340 we are told that it would be better death before detransition so it's this

00:23:50.280 idea that we are shameful for existing I've been told telling my story is a

00:23:55.420 threat to trans healthcare so there's a real effort to silence our voices there

00:24:03.240 was a trans advocate at the rally the first weekend in November who is saying

00:24:10.060 that detransitioners voices shouldn't even be heard on this issue well that's a pretty pretty 1.00

00:24:16.700 common uh reaction from the left when they hear something that they that they can't answer um

00:24:24.540 one last question that i know some of our viewers are going to want to know are things with mom and

00:24:29.260 dad my father actually passed away in about 2021 but i was able to to be very close with him

00:24:36.140 beforehand and uh my mom and i are getting significantly closer and she's uh very happy

00:24:42.540 that i've come back no doubt yes okay kelly lynn grace thank you very much for joining us today

00:24:51.180 and being as open and frank about your personal stories as they are this is one of the issues of

00:24:57.340 our day it won't last forever because these kinds of things don't something else and heaven only

00:25:03.020 knows what it'll be but for today you are voices for a reason and I don't suppose the

00:25:10.560 premier of the province minds at all that you're saying if this set of rules have been

00:25:17.500 in place in Ontario you wouldn't be in this position today.

00:25:24.360 Thank you both very much.

00:25:25.360 You're welcome.

00:25:26.360 For the Western Standard, I'm Nigel Califord.

Western Standard - November 19, 2024

HANNAFORD： The terrible cost of transitioning comes later

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