Independence Debate with Derek Fildebrandt and Duane Bratt [FULL VIDEO]
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 14 minutes
Harmful content
Misogyny
5
sentences flagged
Toxicity
2
sentences flagged
Hate speech
16
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode, Alberta's Opposition Leader Derek Fildebrandt takes the stage to debate the United Conservative Party's leadership challenge to the sitting Prime Minister, Jason Kenney. Derek has been a long-time member of the Fair Deal Panel, and served as a National Post columnist, former cabinet minister, and was a founding member of Alberta's Fair Deal panel. He's also a Mount Royal University political scientist, and has been teaching lacrosse players and students at the university how to play "clean and tough".
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Thank you for coming. I would like to start off by introducing our esteemed moderator Donna
0.98
00:00:14.220
Kennedy-Glann. She is a National Post columnist, former cabinet minister, and I got to know her as
00:00:19.520
a member of the Fair Deal panel, which was an interesting experience and it's an absolute
00:00:25.520
genesis into what we have here today. So please give a round of applause for Donna Kennedy-Glans.
00:00:38.960
Good evening, everyone. I'm glad you're here. I can't believe you came out.
00:00:43.540
It's 29 degrees outside in Calgary and it's Stampede. Way to be here. Way to be citizens.
00:00:49.880
I'm really, really grateful you're here. All of you.
00:00:55.520
As Josh said, I've worn a lot of hats, but the hat that probably helps the most for this
00:01:03.620
role as moderator for tonight's debate is my role as a mother of three sons.
00:01:10.420
I'm going to keep this civil, and I'm going to rely on you to help me do that.
00:01:19.380
Now some of you will come in this room, you know where you're going to vote in November,
00:01:25.020
have decided one way or another and maybe nothing you're going to hear tonight is going to change
00:01:30.780
your mind but it may help you talk to people you care about and and break down some of those
00:01:38.700
barriers between the silos that's why i'm here tonight and there are other people in this room
00:01:44.460
who haven't decided let's respect that they want to hear the arguments and i am going to push these
00:01:53.020
two gentlemen they know what they're talking about they're credible but i'm going to push them
00:02:00.300
hard to be honest this is not a time for you know all hat no cowboy no cows this is real
00:02:08.860
this is real this is a really big deal coming up in october this is probably the biggest issue
00:02:14.700
we have faced as a province ever and i think it's really important and i'm really grateful as i said
00:02:21.340
that you're here that you care and that you want to listen to everybody's point of view
00:02:36.060
so i want to explain to you how the debate's going to roll out
00:02:40.300
i'm going to toss a question to one of the debaters he'll have three minutes to make his case
00:02:46.300
his opponent will have three minutes to counter and then the first debater will have an opportunity
0.99
00:02:53.980
to sum up for one minute and leah here got volunteered to be our flag bearer so she's
00:03:00.700
got a yellow flag and a red flag as we time out here i also want to talk a little bit about
00:03:09.980
emotions i've been at debates like this where things are controversial people have different
00:03:16.540
views and and frankly you all seem really pleasant um and i'm grateful for that but that's not always
00:03:25.980
the case in some rooms and just because we want this to be an opportunity for people to be able
00:03:32.620
to listen and hear and think maybe talk to their neighbors a little bit i am going to be ferocious
00:03:41.020
i'm going to do the mama bear thing if somebody tries to turn this into a spectacle
00:03:47.820
i'm going to boot them out of the room okay is that fair
00:03:51.900
okay let's get going i want to introduce our two debaters brave men who've stepped up
00:04:07.180
derek phildebrandt who is going to be on my right but your left which is very interesting to me
00:04:12.460
Derek has been self-described as the mosquito in the tent that they just can't quite kill.
00:04:25.600
I think that's probably the most apt description of Derek Fildebrandt that I know of.
00:04:33.080
He's former wild rose in UCP. He's done many, many things, and I'm going to let each of the
00:04:38.880
debaters introduce themselves and explain why they are here tonight. But Derek, I'll let you
00:04:44.720
take the podium here. And our other debater is Duane Bratt, a Mount Royal University political
00:04:54.240
scientist, who many of you will have seen on TV, on CTV, on CBC, on Western Standard. He's
00:05:02.400
ubiquitous. He's always got something important to say because he's been watching Alberta politics
00:05:08.240
for a very long time. He also has been teaching lacrosse players and students
00:05:13.940
at Mount Royal University how to play clean and tough, and tonight he's going
00:05:19.220
to be making the case for staying in the Canada game. Dwayne.
00:05:41.720
I kind of got a little stampede jargon for Derek.
00:05:46.600
Give him three minutes to explain himself, besides the mosquito thing,
00:06:01.720
Donna, and thank you, Dwayne, for agreeing to debate me tonight,
00:06:04.920
especially in a room that I think is disproportionately
00:06:12.180
Alberta has given Ottawa a net $322 billion more in revenue
00:06:22.220
Alberta has six times Nova Scotia's population,
00:06:32.860
but four out of five of our senators are Liberals.
00:06:37.380
and one even pushes transitioning little children.
0.94
00:06:41.340
Well, meaning Federalist Conservative politicians
1.00
00:06:47.560
But we have done that for the last 28 elections in a row since 1935.
00:06:54.760
We have said the West wants in, but on the occasion that we do get in,
00:06:59.080
the changes that we get are relatively small and quickly reversed by the next Liberal government.
00:07:05.480
Conservatives may promise a pipeline, but they will never promise to reform the Constitution
00:07:10.440
to give the West fair representation or to end equalization.
00:07:14.520
They cannot because they need to win votes in the east to form government.
00:07:20.280
I fight for independence not because I dislike Canada. On the contrary, I love Canada. I grew
00:07:28.680
up in small army and air force towns across Canada and had dreams of being a captain in
00:07:32.760
the Royal Canadian Navy. But our Canada is gone. It has been replaced by a post-national economic
00:07:41.000
redistribution zone. That Canada is terminally ill and it shows no signs that it is willing to save
00:07:48.200
itself. That Canada is crippled with shame and guilt and only rouses itself to fly the maple leaf
00:07:57.080
when the bad orange man says mean things. That Canada tore down its monuments to Sir John A.
00:08:03.320
Macdonald and Queen Victoria. That Canada spits on the heroes that conquered and settled a harsh
00:08:10.920
and hostile wilderness and made it into one of the greatest and freest nations on earth.
00:08:16.360
That Canada lured its flag in self-flagellating shame for months to atone for a genocide
00:08:22.760
that it well knew was a hoax. That Canada rejected its liberty for censorship and the false illusion
00:08:30.200
of safety. That Canada opened the floodgates to third world mass migration that is destroying
1.00
00:08:36.520
the inheritance passed on to us by our ancestors. That Canada tells you that you're racist if you
00:08:43.080
oppose it. That Canada puts tampons in the men's room of a military base that used to be the home
00:08:49.640
of one of the most feared armies in the world. That Canada used emergency war powers to violently
00:08:55.480
and unconstitutionally crush a peaceful protest of flag-waving Canadians that were sick of having
0.52
00:09:01.000
their freedoms crushed on the altar of COVID hysteria. That Canada was ashamed of the Canadian
00:09:06.520
flag until we raised Alberta's blue shield in defiance. Alberta and perhaps Saskatchewan is
00:09:13.800
the last bastion of real Canadian patriots. Patriots proud of our past and unwilling to
00:09:20.040
surrender our future. We are trying to save a part of Canada by declaring that our portion of it is
00:09:27.240
proud of its inheritance and is willing to fight to hand it to our posterity stronger than we found it
00:09:45.640
okay duane over to you so why are we here tonight there's always been a separatist sentiment in
00:09:54.040
Alberta since it became a province in 1905. In fact I would argue it has spiked much larger
00:10:01.320
in past years. 1981 at the height of Pierre Trudeau's national energy program or in 2019
00:10:08.440
with the re-election of Justin Trudeau after the Alberta Liberals lost every seat that they had in
00:10:14.040
the province and had the lowest voter turnout they ever did in its history. So why are we having a
00:10:20.440
referendum in 2026 i'd make the case that there's two reasons one is the election of mark carney
00:10:27.400
in april of 2025 separatism has a large partisan element and in fact if you listen to derek's
00:10:34.920
opening statement there was a large partisan element to that and so therefore when liberals
00:10:40.600
are in office in ottawa there is more separatist sentiment in alberta but the second is daniel
00:10:48.040
Smith. We've always had premiers fighting Ottawa, whether that was William Eberhardt, Ernest Manning,
00:10:54.720
Peter Lougheed, Don Getty, Ralph Klein, Rachel Notley, Jason Kenney, but they were all fierce
00:11:02.680
Canadians. None of them were sympathetic to separatism, unlike Daniel Smith. The UCP is not
00:11:11.740
a separatist party but there are separatists within the ucp at the national executive at the
00:11:18.220
constituency association level at the caucus level and amongst many of its supporters so the reason
00:11:25.100
we're having this referendum is about internal party unity and a potential threat to smith's
00:11:31.820
leadership and willing to risk national unity in the process now i am not going to change many
00:11:39.420
minds tonight. But what I hope to do is make the case for why Alberta needs to remain in Canada
00:11:45.640
and identify the myths and risks of Alberta Separatism. I am a very proud Canadian. I'm also
00:11:54.280
a very proud Albertan. In fact, I often joke that the next reporter from Toronto that doesn't
00:11:59.900
understand time zones may push me to the separatist corner. But like a majority of Albertans,
00:12:10.940
I do not want to have to choose between being a Canadian and being an Albertan because I am both.
00:12:29.600
Okay, we're going to start with one question to Duane, and he will have to defend it.
00:12:35.320
And then it will flip over to Derek to rebut, and then we'll close again with Dwayne.
00:12:46.380
Support for separation and for triggering a binding independence referendum in October may have cooled somewhat in the polls,
00:12:55.940
Yet this entire conversation and all the stay versus leave campaigning has put Alberta independence firmly on the national map.
00:13:09.380
My question to you, regardless of the outcome of the October 19th referendum in Alberta,
00:13:15.720
if we don't meaningfully change how confederation works, the threat to Canadian unity will only grow bigger.
00:13:28.740
So I often hear this, that this is between separatism and status quo.
00:13:33.380
That somehow Alberta is the same place in Canada in 2026 as we were in 1905.
00:13:42.340
There has been substantial change in the country since that time period.
00:13:48.060
So yes, we can talk about the grievance of not having natural resource rights in 1905.
00:13:55.940
we can talk about the role that Peter Lougheed played working with Pierre Trudeau,
00:14:02.900
impatriating the Constitution for 1982, including reinforcing the role of natural resources in the
00:14:11.380
Constitution and supporting a notwithstanding clause currently being used by the provincial
00:14:18.180
government. Those are just constitutional changes. You hear about the Senate, okay,
00:14:23.860
And there has been lots of reforms around the Senate.
00:14:28.180
Just on the appointment process, Mark Carney reversed the partisan ban that Justin Trudeau put in around the appointment of Senate.
00:14:38.040
We have had Senate elections, sometimes honoured, sometimes not in this province.
00:14:43.260
We actually are going to have a referendum on abolishing the Senate.
00:14:47.080
That is not status quo. That shows changes from 1905.
00:14:51.540
You look at the economic standing, the political standing of Alberta.
00:15:01.240
Alberta would have gone bankrupt in the Great Depression were it not for federal assistance.
00:15:07.900
Likewise, the oil sands greatly benefited in the mid-1970s from money from both Ottawa and the Ontario government.
00:15:18.720
from a tax regime change that was made in the mid-1990s under the Khrushchev liberal government
00:15:25.040
working with Ralph Klein that furthered the development of the oil sands, or economic oil
00:15:33.980
policies, right? Just look at some of the changes that have been done by Mark Carney in the last
00:15:40.920
year. Look at the one, two, three MOUs that Carney has signed with the current government.
00:15:47.720
Now, you may laugh at that, and you're probably thinking there's no way in hell that pipeline will ever be built.
00:15:54.740
That was the same comment that people made about Trans Mountain.
00:15:59.000
Now, Trans Mountain went over budget, but Trans Mountain is now making money, serious money, for both Ottawa and the Alberta government.
00:16:09.280
So, this idea that the choice is separatism or status quo is a false choice because nothing is status quo.
00:16:27.160
All of the constitutional changes that you mentioned, Duane, were pre-1982.
00:16:34.320
It's funny how we call it repatriation of the Constitution.
00:16:37.440
It was patriation, but it's an odd term, I guess, used in our political history.
00:16:41.380
But 1982, and we had the Constitution Act, and we got the Charter and whatnot,
00:16:45.620
when Peter Lougheed fought to further entrench and clarify provincial ownership over natural resource rights in the Constitution for the provinces.
00:16:56.840
Since then, however, without any changes to the Constitution through the proper amending formula, courts have begun to erode those rights.
00:17:05.620
That's why the primarily liberal appointed Supreme Court of Canada allowed federal intrusion into how we develop our natural resources in Alberta.
00:17:17.080
That's why the federal government is constitutionally allowed, as the Supreme Court decides at least, to impose a carbon tax.
00:17:24.100
That is a court decision because the Liberals tend to appoint the majority of our Supreme Court justices because they're in power more than the Conservatives.
00:17:31.540
those rights are being eroded regularly and they're going to continue to be eroded
00:17:36.800
senators well we've talked about there's been changes to the senate the biggest change in the
00:17:43.400
history of canada constitutionally to senate appointments was imposing a retirement age was
00:17:48.540
it 65 or 75 yeah so because some people were were serving until they were 100 and as senile as joe
00:17:56.500
Biden. So we used to have a Senate full of Joe Biden's. So I admit a little bit of improvement
00:18:02.880
there. They retire at 65. That is the only substantial constitutional change. Alberta has
00:18:08.880
six Senate seats. Nova Scotia has, I believe, 10. New Brunswick has 10. Each of those provinces
00:18:18.060
are six and five times less population than Alberta individually, because Alberta was the
00:18:26.320
Alberta and Saskatchewan were the only two provinces that did not negotiate their way into
00:18:30.640
Canada as independent crown or semi-independent crown colonies first. They were created by the
00:18:35.280
federal government over the objections of the colonial legislature of the Northwest Territories
00:18:39.240
at the time. We wanted to have Buffalo and instead we got divided in Alberta and Saskatchewan.
00:18:45.920
We are, Professor Bratt talked about the referendum we're having on abolishing the Senate
00:18:50.920
coming out. Now every functional federation in the democratic world has a functioning upper
00:18:56.080
House of some kind. The U.K. Senate, the U.S. Senate, the German Bundestag, etc. But remember,
00:19:03.700
we had a referendum on equalization in the Constitution in 2021. Anyone remember what
00:19:08.800
happened there? Nothing. That is why I reluctantly support the independent side, because whenever we
00:19:16.140
try to change something in good faith and good natured, you know what happens? Nothing. There
00:19:22.280
is unfortunately only two choices it is the status quo or it is independence all right
00:19:37.000
duane you get a closer on this one one minute yeah so i'm going to focus on two of the points
00:19:42.120
one is around the senate we hear a lot about how the senate is unrepresentative and that is true
00:19:48.360
it's not even representation by population but in some cases new brunswick nova scotia it's the
00:19:54.360
opposite of that but is breaking up the country worth it for a um a house of parliament with very
00:20:03.800
little power power that it defers because it is unelected to the house of comments uh and on the
00:20:11.000
supreme court okay this idea that because the supreme court has been appointed largely by
00:20:17.000
liberals it always operates on behalf of the federal government not when it comes
00:20:22.440
down to internal trade barriers where they often come down in favor of the
00:20:26.420
provinces as in the case of the Maurice case the poor man from New Brunswick who
00:20:32.000
brought who was charged with smuggling for bringing beer from Quebec and the
00:20:37.820
Supreme Court upheld that which is provincial rights likewise the effort
00:20:43.100
at creating a national securities regulator was blocked by the supreme court okay on behalf of
00:20:50.220
the provinces so there has been lots of change this is not status quo do you do you want to
00:20:58.300
quickly respond eric i just i am i'm going to grant this latitude here okay because they're
00:21:03.820
still civil but if that ends this latitude ends too okay yeah just uh very briefly uh the senate
00:21:11.180
doesn't normally exercise its power because traditionally the Senate more often than not
00:21:16.300
has had C counts a majority in the Senate that aligned with the governing party that is clearly
00:21:21.020
not the case we had a lot a ton of liberal uh Trudeau appointed senators before the last election
00:21:25.740
when it looked like the conservatives were going to win a stonking majority stating that they were
00:21:29.820
prepared to block the agenda uh in the late 1990s the reason Canada has no abortion law whatsoever
00:21:35.740
is the Senate asserted its power and blocked a bill duly passed by the House of Commons it's a
00:21:40.460
rarer example and just on the last point about internal trade i don't want a supreme court that
00:21:46.860
sides more with the feds or more with the provinces i want a supreme court that sides
00:21:50.860
with the constitution and internal free trade is where you should don't sign with the provinces
00:21:55.900
that was a bad decision that it's illegal to trade beer across provinces that's good
00:22:00.700
do you want to counter no okay question two derek you're gonna like this one
00:22:10.460
you are. The heart of Alberta's frustration is unfairness. I saw that firsthand on the Fair Deal
1.00
00:22:17.240
panel. We saw it during the trucker convoy. The grievances have been building for decades and now
00:22:23.080
they're fueling a pro-independence campaign. But let's be honest here. How is an independence
00:22:32.060
referendum fair to the many Albertans who want to remain Canadian and say they would leave the
00:22:37.300
province if we go solo? How is it fair to the First Nations who object? A yes vote
00:22:44.200
means carving out federal parks, military assets, Indigenous reserves, unworkable
00:22:50.200
partitions. And how is Alberta going it alone fair to the rest of Canada? So my
00:22:56.920
question to you Derek, voting to move forward with an independence referendum
00:23:02.080
is inevitably polarizing for Albertans and will cause more harm than pursuing greater sovereignty
00:23:09.380
within Canada, as Quebec has done. Do you agree or disagree? Well, it wouldn't surprise you that I
00:23:17.060
disagree with the entirety of the question and statement, the premise of it. But I think there
00:23:24.160
are fair points in it that I think deserve fair attention. First, would it be divisive? Absolutely.
00:23:31.700
Every time we engage in democratic exercises, it is divisive.
00:23:36.400
We like one party over another, we like one candidate over another.
00:23:41.340
There's going to be a winning side and there's going to be a losing side,
00:23:44.300
particularly in such an existential question as this.
00:23:48.320
This will be more divisive than, say, an equalization referendum.
00:23:55.740
If the polls are believed, my feelings will get hurt.
00:23:58.480
But we're trying to change hearts and minds on that.
00:24:01.180
the winning side is always going to have to be gracious in in victory and the losing side is
00:24:06.380
going to have to be um forgiving in defeat uh first nations uh i believe it is much less uniform
00:24:16.540
than legacy media would have us believe it is not uniform i know many people indigenous people who
00:24:23.580
are on the independent side but i'm under no illusions that as a whole they have our back
00:24:29.900
They are a minority that, if polling is to be believed, are disproportionately on the federalist
00:24:35.260
side. I find that odd, not that I can presume to speak for them, but the Indian Act has treated
00:24:41.740
our Indigenous people terribly. Why wouldn't this be an excellent opportunity to rectify that,
00:24:48.060
to bring them into the community of Alberta, treat them as equals? But they have signed
00:24:54.620
treaties and treaties good treaties bad treaties must be respected but just as the Dominion of
00:25:01.100
Canada inherited the treaties from the crown colonies of the United Province of Upper and
00:25:05.660
Lower Canada Nova Scotia New Brunswick and eventually other crown colonies that pre-existed
00:25:10.460
Canada and came into the Dominion an independent Alberta as a republic or as a constitutional
00:25:15.660
monarchy would be obliged by law and honour to respect every one of those treaties and it would
00:25:22.940
be up to our Indigenous people to decide if they want to renegotiate them or not.
00:25:28.540
To the rest of Canada, I say if you're worried about this being unfair,
00:25:35.740
I hear you, but there's a simple way to address it. I'm not implacably an independent supporter.
00:25:43.340
I can be one back. Treat Alberta as an equal member of the family. Open up the constitution.
00:25:52.120
Treat us like everyone else in the family and give us a seat at the table.
0.88
00:25:59.240
It's because I don't believe that the West is ever going to truly be in
00:26:05.580
So if the rest of Canada feels slighted by it, I understand that.
00:26:09.140
But there's a clear answer if you don't want to feel that way.
00:26:14.780
over to you duane so let's break down this idea of fairness um and i heard the comparison made
00:26:27.560
between a referendum and a regular general election they are not the same in a general
00:26:32.480
election you fight it's temporary you have another election four years later you move on
00:26:38.460
that's not with a separation referendum. If that goes where the Canada side wins that does not
00:26:47.580
prevent a subsequent referendum as we saw in Quebec. But if the separatists win then the
00:26:54.560
story's over. It's irreversible. That is not fair. If you first you don't secede try and try again
00:27:03.560
is not a model of fairness. On the treatment of Alberta, there was a book that came out by Donald
00:27:09.520
Savoie, a very prominent political scientist out of the University of Moncton, where he walked
00:27:15.140
through how every region of Canada feels that they're a victim. Obviously, Quebec feels that
00:27:22.540
they're a victim. Indigenous people feel that they're a victim. Atlantic Canada, we hear about,
00:27:27.640
oh, look how many extra seats PEI has in the House of Commons. Yeah, that's why PEI runs the
00:27:33.100
country right they feel victims obviously western canada feels victims bc there's something about
00:27:38.520
the rocky mountains they feel entirely ignored by the rest of the country and then the rebuttal
00:27:42.860
would be well what about ontario they obviously can't feel that they're the victims they actually
00:27:47.200
do towards the united states because of the legacy of the loyalists and the american revolution
00:27:52.000
so every part of canada part of the great canadian trait is we're all victims um miss candy glance
00:28:01.220
mentioned at the beginning that she's a mom of three kids i'm sure each one of her boys believes
00:28:05.540
that mom liked the other ones better right that's part of the process um and then there was reference
00:28:14.420
to getting rid of the indian act jean chretchen when he was indian affairs minister in the late
00:28:19.300
1960s tried to do that and he was strongly imposed by the indigenous people because that was viewed
00:28:26.740
as assimilation and that would violate the treaty rights that had been ignored up to that point
00:28:32.900
treaty rights that they signed in good faith in the 17th and 18th and 19th century right and so
00:28:40.660
i think that's an issue that has been largely ignored in this debate except by the courts
00:28:47.140
so that's just a bit of my rebuttal thank you you've got one minute derek to respond
00:28:52.580
your analogy that you know everyone have done his children sons probably thinks that mom loves them
00:29:01.260
the most is perhaps apt I I can see how the Canadian family feels that way sometimes but
00:29:06.260
in this case one kid has had to drop out of school and work to support all the others that
00:29:25.900
being more definitive and being more irreversible
00:29:30.340
than a regular election, except for this referendum.
00:29:36.640
This is a referendum to decide not to declare independence,
00:29:41.040
to declare if Alberta wishes to go down the road of independence that starts a process of negotiations
00:29:46.720
this allows everyone to see the facts what is our share of the debt going to be that we have to take
00:29:51.520
how are we going to deal with assets and liabilities like national parks military hardware
00:29:55.440
they can keep most of that we'll get our own but this is a referendum to have a referendum
00:30:02.080
all this talk of my three sons reminds me that this is being live streamed and so all my sons
00:30:15.320
are watching I love you all but but it is being live streamed so if you have friends at home that
00:30:24.080
you think should be listening in please let them know it's Western Standard is live streaming and
00:30:34.180
My third question is to Duane, and it's about numbers.
00:30:42.880
Economists and accountants have been busy crunching
00:30:52.460
on transition costs, and the price of running a new country.
00:31:10.400
are warning us that uncertainty drives away investment
00:31:19.380
the argument has been put forward by separatists
00:31:26.200
costs alberta too much do you agree or disagree i disagree i mean albertans are the richest people
00:31:35.320
in the country and if that is a way that we have been victimized by the rest of the country
00:31:42.040
i would like to be victimized a bit more on the issue of cost we simply don't know you're going
00:31:50.200
to see contrasting documents we saw a document that came from state free alberta that outlined
00:31:57.720
it would be a minimal adjustment cost but reading through that there were huge misrepresentations
00:32:03.560
some double counting the math just didn't add up likewise the premier has said it would cost
00:32:11.400
400 billion dollars in adjustment costs but no numbers backing that up now the school of public
00:32:18.920
policy has been asked to do a more full scale analysis but it can only be temporary because
00:32:26.920
ultimately we don't know what we do know is comparisons we know the impact that brexit has
00:32:33.560
had on britain economically and the drop in gdp that occurred there um and that was breaking up
00:32:41.720
a trade agreement not a country and we saw what happened in quebec with the movement of people
00:32:51.000
and dollars and companies there's a reason that the bank of montreal is now based in toronto
00:32:56.920
toronto was the great winner of this referendum debate long series of debates in quebec so
00:33:03.880
there is going to be a cost um and even quebec when they produce their documents jacques perizol
00:33:11.720
was an economist he acknowledged the uh the economic hit that quebec would take but there
00:33:19.000
it was about identity it was about language it was about culture it was about history it was
00:33:24.440
about tradition when i hear the arguments about alberta separation including by mr phil the brand
00:33:30.680
the focus is on money are albertans willing to pay an economic cost for separation i don't think so
00:33:40.040
so we do know that there'll be a cost and it could be ongoing cost not just a temporary cost
00:33:46.120
but we don't know what those numbers are thank you derek your response to that
00:33:53.640
uh duane you talked about uh the uncertainty that came with the quebec uh quebec's two
00:34:02.840
referenda on on independence or sovereignty association whatever they were calling it at
00:34:07.000
the time uh and the flight of capital that took place the evidence i mean this is pointed up by
00:34:14.040
the state federalists very often but the evidence shows that capital and people fled quebec not
00:34:20.840
because it was seeking to be an independent polity but because they feared what that independent
00:34:26.600
polity would be it would be a anti-english speaking ethno state run by socialists who
00:34:36.360
would be explicitly anti-business that has been the mo of most quebec governments since the quiet
00:34:43.800
revolution. No one wants to be in a place run like that, independent or subnational.
00:34:50.600
I have a hard time imagining some oilman in Texas looking about where to put his map
1.00
00:34:56.360
and he sees this thing, this funny little shape, some kind of redneck Switzerland with the lowest
0.99
00:35:01.560
taxes north of the 49th parallel with the freest enterprise, open approvals to drill new wells and
0.69
00:35:09.160
dig new oil sands mines. That is not going to drive away capital unless we're going to ban
00:35:14.840
every other language from existing here and start taxing people to death the way it was proposed to
0.98
00:35:20.520
take place in Quebec. In 2024, the last year for which we have the full final numbers, Alberta paid
00:35:30.040
$77 billion into Ottawa. We got 53 back in net transfers and spending in Alberta. That was a
00:35:38.280
$25 billion loss in one year that works out to $12,727 per household. Who would like to buy a
00:35:49.720
boat this year? Who would like to buy a boat every year? It's Alberta. Alberta has the fourth
00:35:57.080
largest energy reserve on the planet and it is trapped when I talk to American people, Americans
00:36:03.400
in the energy industry they are flabbergasted that we do this to ourselves our per capita gdp
00:36:10.840
as an independent country assuming we did not improve our per capita gdp which i i absolutely
00:36:16.680
believe we would but even if we just stayed where we are we would be ranked eighth richest country
00:36:22.360
in the world we'd be in a club with lichtenstein and switzerland two landlocked countries
00:36:26.920
i would have you and canada would drop from 16th to 18th um but this is not just about the money
00:36:34.680
as duane said and sometimes our side has made this too much about the money it's not actually
00:36:38.840
about that anymore it's about having a place that is still recognizably ours when our children
00:36:45.640
inherit this place and we pass from it and we can see what's happening right now in canada
00:36:50.840
and we know that canada's already gone we have to save alberta before it's too late
00:37:05.920
So Mr. Fildebrand said that the reason that there were people and money leaving Quebec
00:37:11.640
was not due to referendums, but the fear that an independent Quebec would discriminate against
00:37:23.260
Rewind the live stream back to Mr. Felderbrand's opening statement, where he seemed to strongly attack immigration.
00:37:31.440
I'm looking around this room. I don't see a whole lot of non-white Albertans in here, right?
00:37:39.060
So when we talk about, no, seriously, here, when you hear about mass immigration as a reason to leave Canada
00:37:50.100
and you are first generation, second generation, third generation immigrant to Alberta,
00:37:58.200
Likewise, the comment that Alberta is a conservative place.
00:38:02.540
What if you don't vote conservative, which in the last election was well over 40%?
00:38:12.060
That's the same thing as the English community felt in Quebec
00:38:16.100
and quite frankly, the Alophone community in Quebec felt.
00:38:20.100
So, I'm going to make an observation here that, you know, there is a lot of talk about
00:38:32.960
It's on every radio station, it's in every report, but this discussion, as I mentioned
00:38:42.020
And we don't really have great skills in talking about emotional issues.
00:38:45.860
I'm that's a gross generalization many of you probably do but part of the
00:38:50.660
questions I'm asking tonight are geared to that kind of a conversation because
00:38:56.600
we can argue about numbers forever but that's not going to solve the problem
00:39:03.920
us us figuring out a pathway forward so I did this intentionally not to be mean
00:39:10.180
but I really think that this is the part of the conversation that we need to get
00:39:15.300
better at okay so my fourth question they get my rebuttal right I got one
00:39:21.640
minute no that was Dwayne's question oh do you have something else you want to
00:39:27.000
say of course actually I'm gonna give you another question because you're
00:39:33.340
gonna like this one too this one's to Derek governing a brand new sovereign
00:39:41.280
country isn't a simple endeavor. What'll it be? Constitutional monarchy, a republic or something
00:39:48.660
invented on the fly? How would immigration rules be decided? You've already talked about that.
00:39:55.200
Rebuilding trust with Canada, the world and even our own citizens will be a steep climb
0.91
00:40:00.580
and add in Indigenous rights and the Trump factor. Trump's potential willingness to recognize
0.67
00:40:07.840
alberta's unilateral declaration of independence and all that chatter about joining the united
00:40:13.760
states my question to you governance of a truly independent alberta would be extremely challenging
00:40:22.880
and very risky without canada agree or disagree i would agree with the first premise uh the first
00:40:32.960
half of the premise of your question the second half no the first half I agree with that it would
00:40:41.920
be difficult it would not be easy there's ways to address it but I do not believe we could not do
00:40:48.880
it without the rest of Canada we have learned from Canada's great history how to govern ourselves
00:40:55.840
as a province we've had prime ministers even we know how to do this just as the Dominion of Canada
00:41:02.560
knew how to govern itself because it had training wheels on as the crown colonies of the united
00:41:07.680
province of upper and lower canada nova scotia new brunswick later on prince of rhode island
00:41:12.160
british columbia and everyone else from there canada learned from the great british empire
00:41:18.640
and our westminster traditions how to do these things we know these things we're ready to take
00:41:25.440
the training wheels off we're ready to run we know how to do this how what what this looks like these
00:41:31.280
are tough questions and they're fair for the other side to ask. Are we a republic? Are we a
00:41:36.420
constitutional monarchy? If Alberta pursues independence, we would have to have a constitutional
00:41:42.580
convention of some kind. I think it should be separate from the legislature itself. The legislature
00:41:46.860
will be too self-interested. You don't let the politicians write their own rules as much as you
0.70
00:41:51.900
can. And so we should elect a separate constitutional convention the way the Americans did after the
00:41:56.620
American Revolution, replacing the Articles of Confederation. And we would have to address these
00:42:01.760
very real, very tough questions. I'm partial, actually, to a constitutional monarchy. In fact,
00:42:07.940
we could even keep the same monarchy. When Canada became the Dominion of Canada. Okay,
00:42:14.180
I don't like Charles either, but we'll get past them. When the Dominion of Canada was created,
00:42:19.780
uh we didn't become somehow separate actually from britain we grew we evolved we could still
00:42:27.960
actually if we wished retain the same head of state in our constitutional monarchy i know there's a
00:42:32.780
lot of republic of alberta shirts here so i'm not picking a fight with you don't worry um but
00:42:38.240
republic is also an option um but canada grew from these separate colonies into the dominion of
00:42:44.760
canada and we had the statute of westminster i believe in the 1930s and then the final
00:42:49.180
patriation of the constitution with the constitution act 1982 that was a slow evolution of things
00:42:55.740
there was no worry that canadians weren't really ready to do it we've been alberta since 1905
00:43:02.460
over a hundred years we're ready to run i'm gonna turn this over to duane but i i do have to point
00:43:13.420
out and i want you to think about this derek is you didn't respond to the trump factor and i think
00:43:17.660
you need to okay okay so duane yeah so the this is a very important question what would an independent
00:43:26.940
alberta look like and we didn't get much of an answer because they simply don't know so you want
00:43:34.140
to vote to separate and you can't even figure out if you're going to be a constitutional monarch or
00:43:42.220
a republic and mr felderbrand mentioned look at the evolution of canada we started with
00:43:47.420
responsible government in the 1840s and then confederation in 1867 and the statute of west
00:43:53.660
minster and the patriation of the constitution in 1982 so i guess the answer is let's separate
00:44:00.700
and we'll figure it out within the next hundred years i don't think that's a very good answer
00:44:06.220
this is an important question what would the constitution look like would it be the same as
00:44:54.620
So just quickly to break Dwayne's part, then I'll come to you.
00:44:58.020
The United States, we're at 250 years of American independence.
00:45:01.080
But when they declared independence, they didn't know.
00:45:19.300
Hopefully, I think a bit tougher than it would be for us,
0.87
00:45:24.300
and they allowed people in a proper democratic process
00:45:30.300
To Donna's question, I didn't mean to dodge it actually,
00:45:33.300
I just kind of forgot about that part. With Trump and a unilateral declaration of independence,
00:45:39.300
I know, geez, this is probably a whole question on its own right here. Ultimately, we should
00:45:44.180
attempt to follow the process set down of the Clarity Act. But the Clarity Act is set down
00:45:49.780
intended to fail. I do not believe at the end of the day, we would have good faith negotiations
00:45:54.100
with Ottawa and get unanimity of Ottawa and the 10 provinces or nine others. At the end of the day,
00:45:59.940
we would have to seek international recognition from foreign governments,
00:46:03.300
and I believe that the first customer's door we show up with would be the United States.
00:46:10.020
I'm going to turn this back over to Duane to respond.
00:46:14.660
Before I talk about the threat from the United States, Mr. Fulibrand mentioned how the US
00:46:21.620
declared independence, fought a war, and then developed their constitution after. That was
00:46:27.060
the second attempt right is that something that we want to go through especially given the
00:46:32.420
communication and transportation changes that exist in the 21st century that didn't exist in
00:46:38.180
the 18th century do we want to leave screw it up and then try again and especially given that
00:46:45.700
the people that the u.s was leaving were an ocean away and the people that alberta would be leaving
00:46:51.940
are right next door to us so i don't think that's a fair and equal representation on the threat from
00:46:58.340
the united states and this is a problem and i'm not saying that this is mr fildebrand's problem
00:47:04.260
but we don't have a united federalist position we don't have a united separatist position but there
00:47:09.700
are separatists who want to join the united states who say that this is step one of a two-step
00:47:16.340
process and even if you think not five million people surrounded by 35 million
00:47:23.840
surrounded by another 350 million that largely trades with that American
00:47:30.140
Empire the movement is going to occur right and so you may not like it when it
00:47:36.680
happens but that is what is going to draw in and I do think that between now
00:47:41.400
and October 19th I'm gonna wake up one morning and Donald Trump will put out
00:47:46.040
some sort of tweet that says we don't want canada as a 51st state we only want alberta and what's
00:47:53.640
going to be the reaction in this province some will cheer that i think the vast majority will
00:47:59.320
be horrified so i'm gonna i'm going to exercise my latitude here to keep this one going one more
00:48:06.760
time back to derek and that will be the closure one minute thank you so there is a very small
00:48:13.560
number who want to become a US state. I'm not one of them and I don't imagine most
00:48:17.720
independent supporters are. I don't want to trade one distant imperial capital for another.
00:48:28.200
List of countries that unilaterally declared their independence and then held constitutional
00:48:33.400
conventions to decide their own constitutional structure. Poland, Yugoslavia and then subsequent
00:48:40.600
states succeeding Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and a country
00:48:49.160
that I imagine federalists are fairly uniform in supporting the independence of right now which
00:48:53.800
declared its own independence and then decided its constitutional structure, Ukraine. They all did it.
00:49:03.400
If Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia can do it, I'm pretty sure Alberta which is larger than France
00:49:10.120
nearly twice the size of Norway and Japan, twice the size of Germany, and three times the size of
00:49:14.520
the UK, and would have the eighth largest economy on the planet. I'm pretty sure we can figure it out, too.
00:49:27.960
I think somewhere in there we touched on something we agreed on, so that was good.
00:49:32.200
My next question is to Duane. It's fair to say that Albertans are watching the
00:49:39.340
Kearney government's next moves on the energy MOU as a litmus test of trust.
00:49:45.400
There's been progress for sure. Premier Smith has been very clear. She wants the
00:49:51.020
expanded TMX West Coast pipeline on the national project list by October.
00:49:57.160
However, this isn't clear sailing. Recent Fraser Institute study warns that the energy MOU's carbon tax and carbon capture conditions make Alberta's oil and gas uncompetitive.
00:50:10.240
My question to you, Duane, Albertans ballot box decision this October will be heavily influenced by whether and how a new West Coast oil pipeline actually moves forward. Do you agree or disagree?
00:50:25.320
I think that's a major part of it, but I would hope that the fate of the country does not rest on one pipeline.
00:50:34.740
So let's look at what Prime Minister Carney has done.
00:50:38.840
On day one of becoming Prime Minister, even before the April 2025 election, he removed the consumer-based carbon tax.
00:50:49.480
And who instituted a consumer-based carbon tax in Alberta?
00:50:58.100
Who introduced the industrial carbon tax in Alberta?
00:51:05.200
So Kearney removes what had become a major irritant, not just in Alberta, but across the rest of the country.
00:51:12.940
And he has then the first bill was Bill C-5, which said any project in the national interest would supersede a whole series of environmental regulations.
00:51:25.800
So let's see what Kearney comes with now that the MOUs have been signed, now that the pipeline submission to the major projects office has occurred.
00:51:36.900
So I think Mark Carney has made significant strides in dealing with some of these perceived anti-energy policies.
00:51:46.780
And I would argue against Mr. Poliav, who says, well, just do it.
00:52:02.780
and it would not be easy in an independent Alberta if you accept the rule of law. If you don't accept
00:52:10.600
the rule of law, then it's really easy to do things. Hence the comparison that you often hear
00:52:15.840
with the Trans-Canadian Railroad of the 19th century. There's no way that we would be able
00:52:24.900
to build a project like today, nor do we want to. The amount of people that were killed,
00:52:30.240
that were displaced in building that it's simply intolerable today so I think the government the
00:52:36.580
current federal government has made an outreach the provincial government has made an outreach
00:52:42.240
and they are working together I think in some cases for different reasons I think Mark Carney's
00:52:48.780
major motivation is to diversify trade away from the United States in the case of some of that in
00:52:57.180
next question okay he's on a roll i hate to interrupt you yeah i'm gonna turn it over to
00:53:02.380
derek here yeah mark carney is admittedly at least somewhat of an improvement on trudem
00:53:11.980
i'm i'm flying to munich in a few days and uh in german we have a word back
00:53:18.060
which translates roughly as a punchable face the new prime minister does not have a punchable face
00:53:23.340
that is an improvement. But Mark Carney has a career-long history as being a radical opponent
00:53:35.660
of anything to do with oil and gas. He advised Justin Trudeau on these things. Now, it is possible
00:53:41.980
he has seen the Lord on the road to Damascus and is genuinely on our side. I don't know the question.
00:53:49.980
people do change their stripes and opinions on things over time for instance i used to be a
00:53:54.700
federalist so it is possible but one way or another the conditions that have been attached
00:54:03.420
in this mou for a new west coast pipeline are exorbitant now will it still make money at the
00:54:09.180
end of the day possible but it will mean a lot less than if we were living under any kind of
00:54:15.660
rational regime that had wealth buried beneath its feet and would dig it up and sell it for as
00:54:22.220
much money as possible as fast as possible but i actually do agree with uh duane on a point here
00:54:28.700
that the fate of the country should not rest on a single pipeline but we probably disagree about why
00:54:36.300
i we could build 10 pipelines but until alberta is treated with respect until we have equal
00:54:43.260
democratic representation in the Senate and House of Commons until our freedoms are respected and
00:54:49.260
we can't be arrested for waving a Canadian flag on Parliament Hill, disagreeing with the government.
00:54:55.100
No, it's not about a pipeline anymore. It's about a hell of a lot more.
00:55:06.700
I'm going to turn this over to Dwayne, but I have to observe that these two guys are
00:55:10.780
anticipating the next question so expect more on this so the the comment that we
00:55:17.800
can't judge Mark Carney on his actions the regulatory actions the legislative
00:55:23.500
actions the MOU actions instead we have to judge Mark Carney on speeches and
00:55:28.660
books that he wrote five or six years ago that is quite different that is
00:55:32.300
quite interesting that we can't judge actions we have to judge words from the
00:55:36.600
past. I'm going with the actions. And you may imply that the previous Prime Minister had a
00:55:42.800
punchable face. That the previous Prime Minister had a punchable face. I don't know if either of
00:55:52.100
us want to get into a boxing ring with Justin Trudeau. He's pretty good at that. And for those
00:55:57.860
talking about the obstacles to the the pipeline okay would building a pipeline to the west coast
00:56:07.300
be easier or harder as an independent country do you believe that you could force indigenous people
00:56:14.660
force the bc government force environmentalists to allow alberta to build a pipeline as opposed
00:56:21.220
to the role that the federal government played not just on this one but on the trans mountain
00:56:25.860
pipeline as well okay thank you that punchable face line really triggered people didn't it
00:56:36.180
hmm um i've got one more question it's almost seven o'clock we'd like you to be able to return
00:56:45.860
to your families return to stampede return to that beautiful weather outside so i'm going to wrap it
00:56:50.660
up here with one more question and it's going to Derek and it's kind of a
00:56:55.880
continuation of the last one because the guys plowed right into it. Mark Carney
00:57:00.860
and the Liberals have were here just before Stampede flipping pancakes of
00:57:04.740
course and making announcements about oil pipelines to the West Coast but they
00:57:12.100
warned that Alberta's flirtation with separation is dangerous. Federal
00:57:18.320
Conservatives are also campaigning to keep Alberta in Canada. My question to
00:57:24.680
you Derek, beyond pipelines the federal government and federal players of all
00:57:30.020
persuasion still need and can take concrete steps to lower the temperature
00:57:36.860
and reduce the risk of a yes vote in October. Do you agree or disagree? I agree
00:57:44.120
and I genuinely want them to do it I just don't have a very I'm not very hopeful
00:57:51.620
that they will they can't let us go the Liberals need our money and the
00:57:58.400
Conservatives need our votes at the end of the day
00:58:04.880
so but there are things that can be done I've spelled out some of it here in
00:58:11.740
In fact, some, not all, some of the questions that will be asked Albertans in a referendum
00:58:18.120
alongside independence October 19th are of that nature, allowing more provincial appointments,
00:58:25.620
not just, this is unlike Quebec's asks constitutionally, Alberta's asks are for everyone. It's not
00:58:31.360
about special treatment, it's about treating us all the same. That's fundamentally what
00:58:34.560
it's about. It's about changing judicial appointments to give the provinces more power over our
00:58:38.800
own upper courts in our own provinces it talks about the senate i think it's the wrong answer
00:58:43.200
i actually think we need a reformed senate it can be on the american the australian or the german
00:58:48.640
models any one of those are a wild improvement over the medieval system that we have here
00:58:57.600
it talks about market access strengthening our freedoms that would be a gigantic start a gigantic
00:59:04.720
start and i'd be willing to if if albertans voted for all of those and the rest of the country took
00:59:12.880
us up in good faith on that i'd be willing to uh you know change my name to ottawa i i i will
00:59:20.880
change sides and i will campaign on the federalist side if they took us up on it but they never will
00:59:26.000
we had the reform party for the west wants in we have we had our equalization referendum in 2021
00:59:32.880
and it was crickets there is just no prospect of this happening and I for one am not going to be
00:59:38.640
bought off with potentially one pipeline and I'm not going to be bought off anymore as well by
00:59:46.000
well-meaning conservatives who are willing to treat us perhaps with a bit more respect
00:59:51.520
and and act like we deserve to have a seat at the table but won't do anything that'll cost
00:59:56.720
them a vote out east it's time that we took our own side in this debate
01:00:08.160
okay duane so on the going back to the issue of the senate we did have senate reform we brought
01:00:16.240
in a triple e senate due to the work of dawn getty and burt brown it went to a referendum
01:00:22.320
as part of the charlottetown accord it was defeated including by people in alberta so there
01:00:28.640
we are with the situation i already talked about a lot of different other reforms that have been
01:00:33.280
done to the senate on the house of commons yes alberta is slightly underrepresented in the house
01:00:39.520
of commons based on population yeah three seats three seats uh so if you say we need to have
01:00:47.520
alberta have an additional three seats fair enough then would you also support ontario having an
01:00:53.600
extra 14 seats because they are the most disproportionately underserved in the house
01:00:59.440
of commons based on population and if you're upset with pei having those four seats which
01:01:07.200
as i mentioned before means that they govern confederation are you as upset with the rural
01:01:13.280
urban divide in this country both federally and provincially where rural ridings have less people
01:01:19.440
in them than urban writings i think for good reason but you can't say it's good reason for
01:01:25.760
rural folks in alberta but not in pei so these are manageable uh items these are not deal breakers
01:01:34.560
having a uh an unequal weak senate it's not good but it's not worth breaking up the country
01:01:43.040
it is not worth breaking up the country for an additional three house of common seats and i've
01:01:49.040
done the math you can see and how it looks and on the federal government and on the leader of the
01:01:56.240
official opposition both of them have to speak before canada you cannot want to be prime minister
01:02:02.560
of canada and support separatism that seems obvious but what is the carny approach i've
01:02:15.900
And if your argument is, well, there's so many other things,
01:02:19.720
but as long as a Conservative is in Ottawa, it's no big deal.
01:02:23.580
I have numerous books on my bookshelf around separation.
01:02:29.900
I'm going to have to get that before I leave and have it signed nicely to me.
01:02:34.360
But one of the books is a history of separation in Alberta,
01:02:38.920
and one of the lines is separation is at a low ebb right now because the Harper
01:02:45.140
government was in office at that time but he goes on to say but if the
01:02:49.060
liberals ever return separation will rise and I can just imagine what he
01:02:54.100
would have written if it was a liberal led by a Trudeau so those would just be
01:02:59.740
my comments on that. Thank you and over to you Derek. So Duane pointed to the
01:03:09.940
Charlottetown Accord which followed the Meach Lake Accord and Albertans did vote
01:03:14.480
against it in fact the national campaign in that referendum was led by Albertans
01:03:18.580
by Preston Manning on one side and then actually by Quebec Sovereignists and
01:03:22.000
Lucien Bouchard and Perizot on the other and we the reason Westerners voted
01:03:27.740
against it overwhelmingly was yes it gave a it gave actually a two e-senate because it got rid
01:03:34.000
of the effective it it gave equal representation and elected but it took away most of the senate's
01:03:38.500
powers to check the lower house it had special racial categories for electing senators it wasn't
01:03:45.340
just provinces anymore it was going to have racial categories the charlatan accord had a whole suite
01:03:50.700
of special status for quebec and i'm actually i've i've changed my mind on quebec on a lot of things
01:03:56.040
I actually do understand them on their need to protect their culture and a lot of these things.
01:04:00.700
I started to feel like that in Alberta once in a while.
01:04:02.660
But Albertans had good reason for voting against the Charlottetown Accord.
01:04:08.320
But the Charlottetown Accord did not come about because Alberta wanted to be treated with respect.
01:04:13.760
It came about because they wanted to keep Quebec in Canada.
01:04:19.600
Before we do summary statements here, I'm going to give each of the debaters a chance
01:04:26.000
to have two to three minutes to finish up their arguments, but I want to ask one question
01:04:33.920
that's been niggling, and I'm going to give each of you 30 seconds to answer this, and
01:04:37.480
this is, they haven't been primed for this, they'll never hire me, they're not, am I being
0.93
01:04:42.760
paid no duh oh I'm getting a beer after one of the questions I have in my mind
01:04:51.460
is there anything that Prime Minister Mark Carney could realistically do in
01:04:57.100
the next few months that would actually cause you to change your mind I mean I'm
01:05:06.160
going to start with you, Derek. Yeah. Yes, call a constitutional convention. Bring all the provinces
01:05:15.760
together. Let's bring it all together. Let's sit down as a family of provinces, as a country that
01:05:23.100
used to, it's always been messy. I'm not going to romanticize the past, but we had our shit together
0.99
01:05:28.280
once upon a time. And if Mark Carney can do that, I still don't believe he'll succeed, but I think
0.94
01:05:35.300
we would owe it to ourselves and fellow Canadians, because we still are Canadians, even if we
01:05:41.100
identify, some of us identify most as Albertans, we would owe it to ourselves and our fellow
01:05:45.600
Canadians to sit down in good faith and see if we could hash this out. I don't believe it would
01:05:51.340
come anywhere, but I think we'd owe it to ourselves, our children, and those who came before us to sit
01:05:56.480
down and do it. Thank you. Duane. So a couple things. One is Mark Carney has met much more
01:06:06.700
regularly with the premiers than the previous prime minister did on issues around U.S. trade,
01:06:12.920
on major projects, and has been working quite nicely with those premiers, including both Daniel
01:06:20.720
Smith Scott Moe and Doug Ford all conservatives now I can just imagine if Mark Carney announced
01:06:28.640
that he was going to institute constitutional change bringing in a convention bringing in
01:06:33.680
all the premiers what the reaction would be what about affordability what about trade
01:06:40.160
what about pipelines why are we spending our time on the constitution and so the people that are
01:06:45.760
chairing a constitutional convention today would be opposing a constitutional change probably the
01:06:53.000
same day. Thank you. It's a tough question. It's one you might want to ask yourself too. I'm just
01:06:59.300
putting it out there. Okay, we're going to do summaries here. Last word. I'm going to start
01:07:05.120
with you, Derek. Oh, I have the first opening one. So what? No, I get to decide. Okay, you're in
01:07:09.820
charge we agreed needs to do oh yes mom okay uh well first of all i want to thank uh donna for
01:07:19.260
be doing a great job as a moderator tonight and duane this uh i wanted a roughly split room but
01:07:26.140
uh i i think duane has showed some courage here uh tonight we don't agree on the time of day
01:07:31.900
generally but uh there were other people who were invited to be uh to be my opponent tonight
01:07:36.780
and Dwayne took it up with a room that is, I think, predominantly Western Standard, so thank you.
01:07:48.620
Ottawa plunders Alberta's wealth to buy votes in other parts of Canada.
01:07:52.940
We know this, but that is not why we support sovereignty. Ottawa has spent a decade moving
01:07:58.780
heaven and earth to stop Alberta from becoming as prosperous as she could be. We all know this,
01:08:05.020
but still that is not why we support sovereignty we must chart our own course because the Canada
01:08:12.140
that once was has resigned itself to decline and destruction I have always believed and continue
01:08:19.020
to believe that a reformed and resurgent Canada is the best path forward for Alberta and the West
01:08:25.820
real change to things like market access equalization representation in the House of
01:08:30.700
Commons in the Senate, protecting our liberties, these all require reopening the Constitution.
01:08:36.780
Quebec holds a veto over any reforms and will never agree to receiving less money
01:08:41.980
and would come with a grab bag of its own demands for special treatment. The Atlantic provinces
01:08:47.180
likewise will never agree to end equalization or their over-representation in both Houses of
01:08:52.140
Parliament. Who here remembers the referendum on ending equalization in 2021? Show of hands.
01:09:01.580
Now, who here remembers the response from Ottawa and the other provinces?
01:09:07.900
No, you don't. There was none. It was silence. Deafening silence. Canada will not take up the
01:09:17.420
call that the West wants in. And to those who stand against independence, I ask you,
01:09:23.740
What is your proposal? What will you do to fix this country beyond negotiate with Liberals
01:09:31.020
and vote for Conservatives? Is it more of the same? Do we continue down the path of national
01:09:37.420
destruction? Albertans, Albertans, we're not going to vote our way out from this under the federal
01:09:47.580
system that is why we have but two options left we accept going down with the ship or we take our
01:09:55.740
destiny into our own hands and we declare independence over to you duane so just on
01:10:13.500
equalization i can't believe it's at the end of the debate and we barely touched on equalization
01:10:18.540
it wasn't just that the federal government and the other provinces didn't respond neither did
01:10:22.300
the alberta government and quite frankly you don't even need a referendum for the alberta government
01:10:28.460
to put equalization on the agenda and the current government hasn't done that the last government
01:10:35.020
didn't do that whether that is removing it from the constitution or adjusting the formula and if
01:10:41.820
If you don't like the idea of equalization and you don't like relatively equal schools
01:10:48.800
and healthcare systems across the country, which is what equalization is, then you might
01:10:54.280
not like equalization in the province of Alberta that does the same thing.
01:11:00.620
The onus is not on me to show why we need to stay in Canada.
01:11:06.900
The onus, given the risk, is on Mr. Fildebrand to convince you why you need to go.
01:11:13.440
Now, I will acknowledge it's a lot more fun to be a separatist.
01:11:18.100
As we saw in the Quebec referendums, as we saw in the Brexit referendum,
01:11:22.280
you get your videos, you get your memes, you have your fun rallies, you get your emotion.
01:11:28.580
No matter what the issue or question is, the answer is always separation.
01:11:33.300
and you can promise a utopia and very different types of utopia but there are consequences to
01:11:40.300
these false promises as we have seen in brexit canada is great because of alberta alberta is
01:11:49.760
great because of canada canada is one of the longest democracies in the world we have been
01:11:57.280
a democracy since 1867 that it's longer than germany longer than japan longer than france
01:12:04.720
longer than italy we are a peaceful country we are economically prosperous people country
01:12:13.040
there's 195 countries we're in the top 15 just on gdp and per capita income and on wealth that
01:12:21.120
is pretty good we have personal freedoms we live in a great country now for the separatists in the
01:12:32.640
room everything good about alberta is due to the hard work and ingenuity solely of albertans
01:12:39.520
everything bad is due to ottawa and other provinces but you can't disentangle them
01:12:47.280
you can't say well mobility rights and educational mobility have strengthened alberta
01:12:54.960
but those don't count what we need to focus on is the things that we don't like
01:12:59.840
as opposed to the things that have benefited us okay
01:13:10.080
well folks that is it for the evening and i think we should have a round of applause for both of
01:13:27.400
And before you get up and leave, I just want to tell you that I'm grateful for the civility
01:13:37.000
This is what we need to take out into the rest of Alberta and the rest of the country.
01:13:44.960
three boys I talked about, those sons, they all live in Alberta. So do my
01:13:48.380
grandkids. This matters to every one of us. That's why I'm here. We have to figure
01:13:55.460
out a way to talk about these issues and make decisions because this is incredibly
01:14:01.160
polarizing and we're all Albertans. So we need to figure this out and your being
01:14:08.080
here is a step in the right direction. So thank you.