Stephen Buffalo is the President and CEO of the Indian Resource Council of Canada, an organization that advocates for Indigenous participation in the oil and gas industry. In this interview, he talks about his organization, the challenges faced by First Nations in the energy sector, and the benefits of Indigenous participation.
00:03:25.160It is one of the risks when you get into the government of the business of business, but yeah.
00:03:29.320But definitely, but the thing is, it's a strong mechanism to keep business moving, you know.
00:03:34.300And again, the fact that First Nations can now generate their own wealth while paying back a loan, you know, is very positive.
00:03:41.020I feel that, you know, this is the start of something new and innovative, which has created other provinces to create their own loan guarantee programs as well.
00:03:51.100Now, there's a national program that's just been recently announced of $10 billion, which is sector agnostic.
00:04:09.000And then the commodity or whatever it is needs to service the debt, obviously.
00:04:12.700And, you know, so the work that we've done has really amplified the fact that, you know, provinces and obviously our government, federal government, does see that, you know, any way to move forward is indigenous participation.
00:04:25.960Well, what have the challenges been and have there been any mistakes?
00:04:30.140There's always mistakes along the way.
00:04:31.940What are some of the mistakes and challenges you guys have faced?
00:04:34.380Well, you know, being a founding board member, we really had to try to establish our feet on the ground and make sure that we had a lot of credibility and, you know, keep up with business and the sector.
00:04:46.720The one thing that's hard to kind of gauge is what our federal government does as far as federal policy.
00:05:15.580And, of course, now we're faced with an emissions cap, which really is a production's cap.
00:05:19.940You know, our community still produce oil and gas.
00:05:22.380And it's going to be a challenge as well.
00:05:26.700You know, from 30,000 feet, you know, it's hard to attract investment, knowing that, you know, there could be issues with emissions cap on production.
00:05:35.480So, it's challenges all around, not just with indigenous, but, you know, mainstream society.
00:05:42.400I mean, you lead an interesting, I guess, two organizations, but they have a similar mandate.
00:06:16.840So, you know, that side, the anti-resource development side, has really tried, with a fair degree of success, I think, to try to paint indigenous Canadians as implacably and effectively universally and unanimously opposed to major resource development projects.
00:06:40.280Using them, for lack of a better term, as props.
00:07:05.200So, how much of a challenge have you found it with the Indian Resource Council, the Alberta Indigenous Opportunities Corporation, to kind of cut against that narrative?
00:08:07.000There's still a carbon footprint of some sort.
00:08:10.040And, of course, everyone's worried about the emissions.
00:08:12.460You know, but our strength is, you know, one, the technology is getting better to address the emissions thing.
00:08:17.500And the one thing that I want to make sure Canadians understand is when some of the nations protest, you know, it might not be from their home territory.
00:08:28.320It could be a funded ENGO that kind of steps into play here.
00:08:33.320And, you know, when the federal government talks about foreign interference at the election political level, there's also foreign interference from foundations from the United States to make sure that, you know, we're landlocked.
00:08:45.120And, unfortunately, some of our people take advantage of that.
00:08:50.000And it's given them a little bit of, I guess, resources with money and to do that.
00:08:56.720But to me, it's not the right representation.
00:08:59.640You know, if we're really going to be treaty people, if we're really going to share the land, we have to be open to these opportunities as well.
00:09:06.980But keep in mind, you know, if the proponents and governments work with the First Nations to address that issue, you know, and have a fair deal, you know, and look at resource revenue sharing, not only in its past impact benefit agreements, its past infrastructure ownership and equity.
00:09:25.500This resource revenue sharing is really going to change the dynamic and really get us off federal dependency under the Indian Act.
00:09:33.960So, you know, the representation of guys like him is kind of misconstrued.
00:09:39.380And, you know, I hope Canadians can see past some of that because a lot of First Nations want to see the development go through.
00:10:52.020And I appreciate it as we're going around this.
00:10:55.080And even prior to the UNDRIP and treaties, well, the treaty has been set in precedent at the Supreme Court of Canada.
00:11:01.980So recognizing Indigenous right and title is already there, you know, but you fast forward it to now with under the FPIC and the consent and do First Nations have a veto?
00:11:14.540It says it does, you know, because at the end of the day, there's ways to stop the development.
00:11:19.980But again, with the proper consultation and listening to the grassroots people, listening to the leaders of their concerns on why they feel it's not, you know, that's where industry and governments have to kind of address and maybe make some amendments.
00:11:35.080But again, if the deal is fair and you're seeing solid revenues back to the nation, just past, you know, measly payments, you know, I think that's a better way as addressing that whole issue on veto.
00:11:48.100You know, it'll take some time, you know, and then given the time frame that your prime minister has given us in regards to...
00:11:55.800You keep on calling him my prime minister.
00:12:15.160But again, you know, the consultation piece has to really be addressed.
00:12:18.340And again, you know, part of that can be disclosing some of these issues that where the foreign interference is coming.
00:12:24.620You know, and, you know, I can honestly say, like, we have to kind of support the greater good.
00:12:30.720If 300 nations support a project and one is opposed, we have to work with the one that is being opposed.
00:12:36.980And if that's more capacity, if that's more understanding, if that's making a deal that really impacts, that addresses their concern, we have to go through that and make amendments.
00:12:46.480I don't remember the name of them off the top of my head.
00:12:50.260It was the West Coast, like, B.C.-based First Nations have names that are really difficult for me.
00:12:57.180The Alberta ones, I'm pretty good with.
00:12:59.080Even Mascuchis, that's one of the tougher ones that I can get that.
00:13:09.660But it was one of the ones that was thought to be most opposed to Northern Gateway and whatnot.
00:13:17.200The elected chief was in favor, but then we had so-called hereditary chiefs opposed to it.
00:13:24.280You know, digging into it, we found some of these hereditary chiefs don't seem to have much of a claim.
00:13:28.640But, I mean, and it's not entirely parallels, but, I mean, it's like, well, if the Queen of England thinks one thing, but the Prime Minister of England thinks another, well, the Prime Minister wins.
00:13:54.720So what are your thoughts on, you know, like hereditary chiefs versus the elected chief and council?
00:13:59.680Yeah, you know, it's something that they have to work out internally.
00:14:03.540And my thought is, you know, the majority of Canadian First Nations have adopted the democratic process of electing a leader.
00:14:10.480And in my view, I think that's probably the best thing.
00:14:14.200The hereditary chieftainship brings a lot of spirituality and ceremony to the work that they're supposed to do in regards to protecting the people and helping the people.
00:14:24.720And there's a conflict there, obviously, of course.
00:14:29.140But, you know, as mentioned, you know, there are other factors at play that might influence some of those hereditary chiefs, you know, which has been...
00:14:38.780I think there's some documentation in and around that.
00:14:41.420But in the same sense, you know, I think it's best we leave it that they kind of work through their own systems and call that stuff internally until they can come up with a decision.
00:14:50.880At the end of the day, if there's disclosure on some of these opportunities as to what's being offered to the First Nation, you know, I think the greater will win.
00:15:02.060You know, again, I'm a strong supporter of this resource development because we've been stuck on federal dependency.
00:15:10.260And these are ways to get away from that.
00:15:12.620You know, we have issues with housing.
00:16:46.900If, you know, there's no secret bullet here.
00:16:49.000But if it was up to you, what's the secret sauce, you think, for, you know, empowering First Nations to be able to become less dependent and stand on their own the way some, in driving distance from where we are right here, are doing pretty well?
00:17:03.160What do you think is the big difference between those?
00:17:05.660You know, obviously, you hit it on the head.
00:17:07.920You know, some leaderships are different.
00:17:09.400And some of the leaders of the day kind of take the initiative in certain directions.
00:17:13.960But is it also cultures of the different bands?
00:17:22.380You know, the only thing that will unite us now is our culture.
00:17:26.320You know, even though they're different, we still practice the same way.
00:17:30.220And I think that's what we have to go back to.
00:17:32.760And if you're going to change anything right now, you know, because we're all in the same pot when it comes to the federal funding and the Indian Act,
00:17:39.840like we've all been wrong in certain dynamics of what the federal government and provincial government have done to our communities, to our people.
00:17:47.700And you're seeing settlements being made done right now.
00:17:51.180You know, for example, the cows and plows under the treaty.
00:17:54.120Some men saw some compensation back for a lack of their fulfillment of that obligation.
00:18:00.720And they're slowly trying to build their economies.
00:18:05.060And if there's one thing I want to see fixed is that I think, you know, this Natural Resource Transfer Act, which empowered the provinces to take control of the resources.
00:18:14.760You go back to the treaty where we're supposed to share, I think things would be different.
00:18:19.700You know, building your own capacities and communities will come as they seem fit because, you know, years of being trained under the Indian Act is tough to get out of.
00:18:30.360And the thing about it is when we sign that document, we know that money's coming in some capacity.
00:18:38.280But, you know, when we look at these other opportunities now with this infrastructure play and, you know, where the federal government wants to go, we have to take advantage of that.
00:18:47.820And provinces now have to really consider, can we share this resource with the First Nations so that, you know, going forward, the consent is a little more easier.
00:18:57.300So that will build the economy of not only the province, but of our country.
00:19:01.960So, I mean, this conversation has gone kind of beyond.
00:19:04.440And it's veering, but I'm enjoying it too much, so I'm going to milk it for everything it's worth.
00:19:10.840You know, you've been very critical of the Indian Act.
00:19:54.480And two, from your perspective at least, what do we replace it with?
00:19:58.120Because I think that's probably why it's still here is we don't agree what to replace it with.
00:20:01.680Well, you know, why it's still here is because it's at least, not a guarantee, but it's a form of revenue to the nation.
00:20:10.320And we're under this programming that we have to report on.
00:20:14.940And at least it gives the community some way to address the needs.
00:20:19.960You know, but it's, again, nowhere near enough because our populations are growing.
00:20:24.460You know, we need to build more housing.
00:20:25.900We need to have better schooling, you know, and give opportunity to our younger generation to move.
00:20:32.540What replaces it again, you know, is creating our own wealth.
00:20:36.560And, again, this whole economy is really, that's how we change the narrative.
00:20:40.180It's going to take strong leadership, not only at the federal level, not only at the provincial level, but our own communities themselves.
00:20:46.540They got to realize, how do I get away from depending on this money because it's just not enough.
00:20:51.720And, again, you know, with these infrastructure projects that are going to be announced hopefully soon, we have to be ready and address some of our issues on concerning, one, first off, is it a good project for us?
00:21:05.220Two, are we going to be able to take advantage fiscally, you know, and three, you know, is it something more than just equity ownership?
00:21:14.760Is it, you know, establishing our right and title under treaty with revenue sharing?
00:21:19.800You know, that's the only option that I can see right now.
00:21:24.740But the Indian Act will continue to be there because it's in the Constitution under Section 35.
00:21:30.000And it really identifies the rights of our people.
00:21:33.220And that's kind of probably the primary driver while it's still around, you know.
00:21:37.180But, you know, the funding mechanisms and everything else around that, that's got to change, you know.
00:21:43.240I've never seen a piece of legislation so unanimously panned and hated that seems to have zero people really advocating in Parliament to get rid of.
00:21:53.800We all hate it, and no one speaks up for getting rid of it.