The question has been asked a lot lately, especially after a number of incidents that have taken place in the Conservative Party of Canada, is the party no longer as strong as it used to be? Is it time to ask the question, or is there still hope for the party?
00:03:41.460That's not going to work if the Tories are hoping to win.
00:03:44.760In fact, if you take Alberta and Saskatchewan out of the equation right now,
00:03:48.140excuse me the toys are polling probably in the mid-20s uh just a hair's breath above the ndp
00:03:56.960let that sink in for a minute i also want to talk a little bit about uh his negatives but before i
00:04:04.860do that i want to talk about our guests for the evening because no you're not going to have to
00:04:09.160listen to me the entire time we have uh clinton devoe on the line clinton coming to us from
00:04:15.460Halifax in the beautiful province of Ontario. And Clinton's been a frequent guest on my show
00:04:19.740on Saga 960. And I'd love to have Clinton on. He's a longtime political strategist. He worked
00:04:26.740for the Conservative Party. He currently is not an associate of that party, but he still has a lot
00:04:32.380of friends and a lot of people who like to talk and call him up and give him all sorts of
00:04:36.320information. And then Clinton then comes on to my show and spills the beans. And then I get a big
00:04:41.640scoop so i'm always happy to have clinton on the show hi clinton good evening how are you this
00:04:47.640evening mark i'm excellent thank you usually we do this in the mornings i know it's a it's after
00:04:54.520nine o'clock in the evening in halifax uh but we've got good representation from across the country
00:05:01.000this evening because we also have david parker on the line and david is a uh a political animal as
00:05:07.160well and park david is a is a supporter of a verano tools and so i'm looking forward to hearing his
00:05:13.800take as well uh are you there david can you hear me mark yes i can thank you for coming on the show
00:05:20.760i really appreciate that thank you for having me it's a huge honor all right cory morgan is also
00:05:26.840going to be on hand he's doing uh he's pushing the button he's making all this happening so
00:05:31.960so i wanted to get his name out there okay here's what i want to throw out there to both of you guys
00:05:36.120There's been suggestions of buyer's remorse by a number of people in the Conservative Party.
00:05:42.460Aaron O'Toole has been the leader since August.
00:05:45.420He defeated a field that included Derek Sloan, that included Peter McKay, who was largely seen as the favorite, as well as Lesley Lewis, who was kind of the darling of the party as well.
00:05:57.860And so the Conservatives like all those people.
00:06:15.040He had been slagging throughout most of the campaign.
00:06:19.260Peter McKay saying that this guy was the red Tory, okay?
00:06:22.640If you want the true blue conservative, I'm your man.
00:06:25.900I'm the guy that you need to select, not Peter McKay.
00:06:30.460And so it was a strategy that helped Aaron win the race, except now, what are we seeing now? We're seeing moves by Mr. O'Toole that has some people questioning whether or not he is conservative or not.
00:06:43.880a flirtation with a carbon tax, a possible move towards cap and trade. All right. He has
00:06:52.700rubber-stamped the idea of net zero emissions by 2050. And looking at other moves as well,
00:07:00.600he booted Sloan out, suggesting that he's going to be not moving at all towards the direction of
00:07:07.520social conservative policies, whether it's abortion or same-sex marriage, a debate that
00:07:12.820many Canadians frankly don't really want to have right now because they've got a lot of stuff on
00:07:17.360the plate but still some questions as to whether Aaron O'Toole is a true blue conservative or not
00:07:23.800some people suggesting is not so I want to throw it open to you David is Aaron O'Toole a true blue
00:07:30.800conservative or is he a liberal in disguise well let me put it this way Mark and you know I don't
00:09:56.540So the longer short of it is, I know the social conservatives of this party, and I've literally been working with them since I was 15 years old.
00:10:04.840And I will say this, the social conservatives are not necessarily concerned with getting policies pushed, right?
00:10:13.880What they're concerned with is being respected, and they have not been respected by the general public of Canada for very long.
00:10:23.120are they being respected by O'Toole right now are they well i would i would argue that they
00:10:28.400very much are being respected and uh and booting derek sloan out of the party isn't exactly a way
00:10:35.440of showing respect mark david don't help me here don't mark me mock me that's that's not kind um
00:10:42.800what i will say is this right derek sloan decided not to come on this program for whatever reason
00:10:50.720and we'll we'll let him explain that to the populace but what i will say is i'm here
00:10:55.840to represent my people and my people your flock no the people that i come from
00:11:04.800okay the people from haynes the people from haynes alberta okay central albertans i asked
00:11:10.560you a question dude please help me here i don't i'm not mocking you i really want to know is
00:11:16.160erin o'toole a true blue conservative and uh you know does he and i will answer that question with
00:11:21.760this there's only one man who legitimately decided to come and represent the true blue conservatives
00:11:30.080so jacy many decided not to run in that leadership race yeah he was premier
00:11:35.200ronna ambrose decided not to run that leadership race john baird decided not to run that leadership
00:11:40.720race i can list you a hundred names of people yeah paulia pauliav pierre pauliav decided not
00:11:46.560to run in that leadership race and you know why they decided to do that because they thought they
00:11:50.160would lose to justin trudeau but there was one man who believed in a conservative party of canada
00:11:55.520and his name was erin o'toole and all there derrick sloan is a is it's conservative derrick sloan
00:12:02.960ran to build his own brand that's all i thought peter okay yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna move over
00:12:08.000let's let's go over to clinton clinton uh you heard what what david had to say uh he says that uh he
00:12:14.640says that derek sloan running was was really he was running for himself run building his own brand
00:12:19.600he's not really a conservative and that aaron is not what i said that is not what i said what i
00:12:24.400said okay okay i'm misunderstood go ahead so you're a uh a mechanic right and you're a mechanic and
00:12:32.480you're trying to fix a truck but you've never fixed a truck before how good are you going to be at it
00:12:37.520you're gonna be probably not very bad at fixing trucks and derek sloan has never been involved
00:12:43.280in politics he doesn't know how the conservative party works he doesn't even know the base of a
00:12:47.840member of parliament so i mean clearly he won an election brand new member of parliament yeah okay
00:12:54.720well leslund lewis was brand new she wasn't even a member of parliament massively accomplished0.85
00:13:00.560person who has been a leader in many areas she didn't know much about politics though she didn't
00:13:06.160have that much experience in politics i want to move over to clinton clinton help me out here
00:13:11.120uh what have you heard is david right in terms of his views about uh aaron o'toole being a true
00:13:17.920blue conservative no i mean quite frankly no offense to david he's out to lunch uh when it
00:13:23.280comes to this stuff he's talking first he talks about experience how important experience is
00:13:29.440i don't want to rehash the leadership race but let's be honest we had a a a co-founder
00:13:35.840of the party ran the leadership race who was a cabinet minister who had the exact same voting
00:13:41.600record in the house of commons as some of the individuals that he listed jason kenny
00:13:46.800pierre pauliev stephen harper i mean i defy anyone to tell me a difference in the voting
00:13:53.040record between peter mckay and any of the people he's listed oh yeah but but no let's let's hear
00:13:59.840no please please david we'll get back we'll get back to you yeah it's it's a little bit bizarre
00:14:05.840that that we we've suddenly uh decided that there's only one person in the country
00:14:12.640who's a an experienced conservative or are conservative with governing experience i mean
00:14:17.680it's ridiculous but anyway well i don't think i don't i don't think david parker said that uh
00:14:22.320that aaron is the only person that who could have done that job if i heard if i heard david correctly
00:14:27.600he was the only one in the field who had the kind of experience that Aaron did and he was the only
00:14:33.020that is that correct yes that's what I said yeah okay thank you go ahead finish Clinton
00:14:37.760yeah what I'm saying is we know that's false like again look Aaron is the leader of the party but
00:14:42.540like let's stop with this dismissal that Peter McKay wasn't experienced wasn't the co-founder
00:14:48.120of the party wasn't a multiple uh cabinet minister and high profile uh poor foes he's just as
00:14:53.900experience as anyone else. But for some reason, everyone is talking about this idea that
00:14:58.120you're either an O'Toole conservative or you're not. And I think it's ridiculous, quite frankly.
00:15:04.560All right, David, I want to run, I want to thank you for that, Clint. I want to run this past,
00:15:09.600there was one prominent conservative, I actually had him on my radio show too today,
00:15:14.320David Spencer Fernando. I'm sure you're familiar with Spencer. He claims that O'Toole owes an
00:15:21.360apology to Peter McKay because Aaron had spent a good chunk of the campaign slagging Peter McKay
00:15:29.060as this red Tory who was really just another liberal running as a conservative. And at the
00:15:37.520end of the day, we're seeing evidence that it's Aaron who has taken the party left. Do you feel
00:15:43.080that Aaron wants to do this in order to try and peel off whether that's three to five percent,
00:15:49.940whatever he needs of that liberal vote in places like the GTA where I am right now, or even in
00:15:56.460Halifax where Clinton is, places in Calgary still, you know, a lot of people vote liberal and people
00:16:03.160don't know that. I mean, you know, you can't really say that, that Aaron has been as conservative as
00:16:10.700he has claimed that he is. I don't know. Do you disagree with that?
00:16:15.280play the game you're playing not the game you wish you were playing and uh the answer
00:16:20.160the answer to that is i'm sorry i don't understand a leadership race is not a general election i think
00:16:25.360all the members know that and um the truth of the matter is the reason that peter mckay lost was
00:16:30.560because he insulted social conservatives he didn't just insult them he called them a stinking albatross
00:16:36.880around the neck of the conservative party well he didn't lie to them i mean he didn't say i'm
00:16:40.720going to give you something i'm going to i'm going to push your cause and then get in and then boot
00:16:45.520derek sloan out though so that's so so peter never did that is not the representative of the social
00:16:50.720conservative movement in canada and uh you can say that that's fine mark i'm not going to i'm not
00:16:55.520going to say that your opinion is you're allowed to have your opinion but the truth of the matter
00:16:59.840is that the the true social conservatives in this country um so there's a there's a great verse from
00:17:06.640the bible which says my kingdom is not of this world and uh that's what jesus said jesus christ
00:17:12.720himself said my kingdom is not of this world and the real problem with a certain element that it's
00:17:18.800a very small element of the social conservative movement in canada is that they're trying to push
00:17:24.640their own opinions of how other people should live on other people and a good example of this
00:17:30.800is abortion and gay marriage right uh there's a lot of people in canada who disagree with the
00:17:37.120idea that abortion should be illegal there's a lot of people including myself who utterly disagree
00:17:42.640with the idea that gay marriage should be illegal and you know what it's totally fine it's totally0.55
00:17:47.520fine for a canadian to feel that those things should be illegal we should we should be all0.99
00:17:53.200right with that opinion but i did all right did i don't know too go ahead let me call the spain
00:18:00.720of spain here i've been a long time conservative activist and organizer for for i've never heard
00:18:05.840of you for decades now and what i find david finish what i find fascinating is that in my
00:18:12.400lifetime there's only been two conservative prime ministers that have won majority governments
00:18:17.360stephen harper and brian morooney and they did so by not talking about abortion by not arguing about
00:18:25.040gay marriage i mean i can't believe that we're arguing about gay marriage in the year 2021
00:18:29.760why do you think we're arguing about it because of derek flown look all i'm pointing out to you
00:18:35.120is that if you want to get votes in atlantic canada and ontario and quebec and british
00:18:42.000colombia and quite frankly manitoba as well then you're going to have to moderate some of this
00:18:47.920social conservatism canada you're not the only reason that any of this is happening is because
00:18:52.880of derrick slump listen canadians are interested in pocketbook issues that's what they're interested
00:18:58.000in they're interested in in in their job in their retirement in their savings that's what they're
00:19:04.640interested in they're not like you're quoting bible verses and this stuff it's utter nonsense
00:19:09.600nobody is voting for a biblical figure to to be sitting in 24 sussex drive i mean it's ridiculous
00:19:17.680oh i agree it is ridiculous here's what i don't understand um you you said on one hand that
00:19:24.320derek does not represent social conservatives which which is fine but on the other hand um
00:19:30.240you're having a good chunk of the base is it abandoning aaron at least it certainly appears
00:19:35.040that way david i mean you're you're welcome to dispute that but when you look at his numbers
00:19:41.280the conservatives are polling at 28 right now nationally which suggests that a lot of people
00:19:46.400and i've spoken to them whether it's the right now people or or people with the campaign for life
00:19:51.680they're not going to be supporting aaron o'toole they're not going to be voting for aaron o'toole
00:19:54.800those are tens of thousands of votes right across the country uh the you know those people are
00:20:00.160saying that they're the ones basically who made the call not to support lisa rate the reason why
00:20:04.800Lisa Raitt lost, at least according to people in the pro-life movement, social conservatives,
00:20:10.260that they stayed home. They did not support her. They could have voted for her, but she
00:20:15.200gave them not even a minute of her day. She had no interest in listening to them,
00:20:22.400and so she ended up losing. So where am I going with this? I mean, Derek is out of the party,
00:20:29.220and there's a lot of people, whether Derek represents social conservatives or not,
00:20:33.380there's a lot of social conservatives who are not happy right now. In fact, the campaign life people
00:20:38.100called on Aaron O'Toole to step down. So where are we at right now, David? Is this going to hurt
00:20:44.500O'Toole? Is this going to hurt the conservatives come election time?
00:20:48.620No, it will not. You know what? Here's the truth of the matter. We can lose 15% in Alberta.
00:20:56.000And if we gain that based on... Okay, so I want to make a couple things clear. I'm not on
00:21:01.460aaron no tools team okay i'm not working for him i'm not paid by him but i will say this just from
00:21:08.180the outside as someone who's done politics for a very long time um he can afford to lose 15
00:21:15.720in alberta and saskatchewan and he could win majority government there are set i'll give
00:21:22.060you a good example of how little i care about polls okay the very first poll we did on the
00:21:28.840Aaron O'Toole leadership campaign Peter McKay was at 65% and Aaron O'Toole was at 3% 3% in the
00:21:36.660membership this was not a this is not a poll of of the general public this is a poll of
00:21:43.040Conservative Party of Canada members now we had 3% and we didn't care and what happened yeah okay
00:21:50.260well we all know that Aaron ended up winning I want to run something past for you and I realize
00:21:54.660that you don't mind, that you don't really care that much about polls. But right now, at least
00:21:59.800according to McLean's magazine, I want to read you this. In the abacus data's first poll after O'Toole
00:22:06.520won the CPC leadership back in August, O'Toole held a net favorability rating of plus two. So
00:22:14.500at the time, 21% had a positive view of Aaron O'Toole, 19% held a negative one. So more positive
00:22:23.100of the negative. The numbers held mostly steady until late fall and then took a turn for the worse
00:22:28.920from a net rating of plus one in November, then minus five in December. And then since then,
00:22:35.300it's been a steady deterioration of O'Toole's to the point where now he's down minus 12 in the
00:22:42.760Abacus latest surveys. The 32% negative impressions of Aaron O'Toole and only 20% had a positive one.
00:23:39.720And there's a reason for that, because your best day in governance,
00:23:44.080your worst day in governance is better than your best day in opposition.
00:23:48.540And so then you have another segment of the party that thinks it's a religious movement, that thinks it's a morality brigade, and isn't interested in winning elections.
00:24:01.100It's interested in what it perceives as being right.
00:24:05.500and so uh this this small yet vocal and yet well organized group of social conservatives
00:24:15.100will do everything they can in order to take the conservatives down and there's a reason why since
00:24:20.380confederation i mean this is just like there's a reason why only four conservative prime ministers
00:24:26.940have won majority governments we have sir johnny mcdonald john defenbaker brian marooney and
00:24:34.880stephen harper when the conservatives act professional and they they listen to what
00:24:40.920canadians are talking about they can get elected they want to have these social conservative
00:24:46.060debates and and activities that's fine but just they have to decide in advance that they're not
00:24:52.080going to win well but the conservative party also wants to be the party that is open to all they
00:24:57.540want to be big tent and there are there are tens of thousands maybe even hundreds of thousands of
00:25:03.020people who sympathize with the idea that maybe we have uh laws as far as it applies to abortion that
00:25:09.660are too lax we have no we have no basic laws at all i mean we you get an abortion at any time
00:25:14.920i mean some people find that are uncomfortable with that clinton that's fine they can look i'm
00:25:21.220pro-choice they can feel uncomfortable about it all they want but the reality is is that if they
00:25:26.580want to form government they need to be where the canadian mainstream public is and unfortunately
00:25:34.820the way that the conservative party is constructed it gives voice to a small but very well organized
00:25:43.620and vocal group of people that are motivated around morality issues okay and as long as that
00:26:20.800all right so don't run to be government of canada david parker was aaron o'toole correct
00:26:27.200in booting out derek sloan since you yourself suggested that sloan was the problem here in
00:26:33.280terms of highlighting the whole absolutely 100 yes okay well you want to elaborate on that
00:26:40.160well i i'd rather not because i was asked not to but what i will say is this um
00:26:45.360um eric sloan is not a representative of my people your people uh who i'm sorry who are
00:26:55.120your people again he does not represent social conservatives that's what that's what you're
00:27:01.400telling me okay but he is a social conservative that's okay he represents us and does he think
00:27:09.280he does he wow he's not here to speak for himself unfortunately would have showed up to to speak
00:27:14.800Well, yeah, you know, he's not here. So, you know, that's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
00:27:21.200Where do we pay? The question is, where do we go from here? OK, so what does Aaron O'Toole have to do to win the election?
00:27:26.820Now, he's got ready, got rid of Derek Sloan. There's going to I suggest that there's going to be thousands of votes that he's going to lose as a result.
00:27:34.460You're absolutely right on that. He will lose votes on that. And I believe personally, that was a very calculated decision.
00:27:40.500But you think he's going to gain votes in areas like the GTA and Vancouver, perhaps Halifax, Winnipeg?
00:27:49.780You think he's going to gain votes from people who say, well, Aaron did the right thing by booting Derek Sloan.
00:27:56.620I feel much more comfortable now that the party represents me.
00:27:59.980I'm talking about progressives, people who don't care about social conservative issues.
00:28:05.580Do you think that Aaron scored some points with those people in areas where he needs to gain support in order to win seats?
00:28:15.380Well, I see that some Michael guy has said that I represent social conservatives.
00:28:19.220And I will say very clearly that I do not believe that I represent social conservatives, nor is my lifestyle representative of social conservatives.
00:28:28.780Derek Sloan is not a factor in the next election.
00:28:33.560There is two factors in the life selection. Trudeau and Aaron O'Toole. And the truth of the matter is, we only have one question to really ask ourselves as conservatives is, is Aaron O'Toole a real conservative? And my answer to that is very simple.
00:28:50.060erin o'toole believes in three fundamental principles and i know this because i worked
00:28:56.320for him um he believes in freedom freedom of choice right so so not just freedom if you want
00:29:03.060to be a muslim and and wally solomon a good friend of mine is one of his uh is one of his
00:29:09.180campaign chairs i understand the diversity issue okay what else does he believe he believes in
00:29:13.860freedom freedom the second is fiscal responsibility and the third and i think this is the
00:29:19.960most important that maybe people don't know about Aaron is that he believes in, he believes
00:29:24.560in honor. And he's a military man. What does that mean? I don't even know what that means.
00:29:30.160What does that mean? In honor. I'm not freaking out. I'm asking you what it means.
00:29:35.960Let me explain. So, so Aaron believes in saying what you're going to do and doing it.
00:29:43.500Well, Clinton, he said he was a social, he said he was a true blue conservative. There are a lot
00:29:48.500of questions as to whether in fact he is. All right, so what does Aaron O'Toole have to do to
00:29:52.420win the election now? He's trailing badly in huge chunks of the country. Out where you are,
00:29:57.960I think he's down to what, 15% in Atlantic Canada? I mean, there's a quite strong possibility he's
00:30:04.220going to lose the few seats he has out there. Well, so there's things that he should do that
00:30:10.660he knows he needs to do, as I've alluded to earlier, that he can't do. So for example,
00:30:17.200the conservative party's holding its national convention coming up and there's going to be all
00:30:22.960kinds of uh sort of out there far out there policies that are going to be discussed around
00:30:28.800these issues and uh the public at large is going to look at that and they're going to say
00:30:37.120look aaron might be a good guy but his party unfortunately is going down a road map that
00:30:43.440we don't want to be a part of okay make a prediction right now and if there's a due
00:30:48.800election party in he needs to reign the party in and he needs to say to the canadian public
00:30:55.200this is what we believe in and this is where we're going and we're not going to do any of this other
00:31:00.720stuff clinton you're literally describing what he's doing but really yes i i mean i've yet to
00:31:10.560hear aaron criticize any of this stuff that's about to happen he kicked derrick sloan out of
00:31:17.920the party yeah he did okay well that's true he did do that all right so where does he stand on
00:31:24.080carbon taxes yay or nay david there will be there will be no carbon tax or there will be no trudeau
00:31:30.240tax because he's made a commitment to net zero by 2050 i mean in order to do that does he not have to
00:31:39.120raise the carbon taxes or at least keep a carbon tax look look i'm gonna say this that
00:31:46.320i personally am a big elon musk fan i'm buying a tesla i am a big fan of environment we need
00:31:54.640to reduce emissions i know aaron's also a big fan of reducing emissions the truth of the matter is
00:31:59.600that a carbon tax is is a way that a lot of people think that you can reduce emissions i
00:32:04.320I don't believe that's true because I don't believe that taking money from everyone to reduce admissions is the right answer.
00:32:13.200Why are people still wondering whether Aaron O'Toole is going to bring in a carbon tax or not?
00:32:19.400Well, there's a lot of people who profit from believing that Aaron O'Toole is questioning this.
00:32:26.500But Aaron O'Toole is not concerned about those people.
00:32:30.220I want to jump in just to add another.
00:32:33.700all right yeah okay let's let's get uh who who's who's up next cory yeah to add a bit of a different
00:32:40.740perspective since it's back and forth because uh i'm not a social conservative i am a fiscal
00:32:46.260conservative i am an alberton and i cannot support a tool i'm sorry he's trying to
00:32:55.540this talk about reducing emissions to the point as you've mentioned
00:32:58.980uh in that timeline uh that means if it's not a carbon tax again it's going to be some sort
00:33:03.940of crackdown on the west we've been cracked down on enough okay so cap and trade i mean is that a
00:33:08.820possibility or is there no answer do you just say well hey you guys are losing the way you're going
00:33:14.340right now so you know you're talking that this path has been a successful one for otole it's not
00:33:19.060gaining him support in fact it's splitting it up anything that the most conservative government we
00:33:24.020ever saw in a long time was the Chrétien Liberals with a principled reform opposition in there,
00:33:29.300and if that's what it's going to have to take, I would rather that than having two liberal parties
00:33:33.460to pick from in the next federal election. So who are you voting for, Corey, right now? I mean,
00:33:37.300if there was an election today, would you vote for it? Yeah, tell us, Corey. Yeah, no, I'm terribly
00:33:42.580undecided as it sits. I might even throw it at the Maverick party because, you know, I'd rather
00:33:46.340vote for someone to lose than vote for a loser I don't want representing me. Well, I know what
00:33:50.180writing you're in and your vote doesn't matter well thanks you know you put that on a brochure
00:33:57.540and send it out parker yeah you know what the truth of the matter is i asked an albertian
00:34:02.260as you know cory um i can lose 15 in alberta and i'll be perfectly happy to get that 15
00:34:09.780okay so dual supporters don't care if they lose 15 of albertans that's a brilliant campaign i can
00:34:15.220see part of why mr is doing this poorly as he is absolutely guys okay okay let's let's hear from
00:34:21.620clinton yeah go ahead clinton so it's it's great that one guy says i'm prepared to lose 15 in
00:34:28.500alberta or saskatchewan because i'm going to make it up in the gta well the reality is is that if
00:34:34.180we look at all of the independent polling and i'm not going to name any one firm but we can see all
00:34:39.140the polling data that that's not happening it's just not happening the party is not in a position
00:34:45.860to gain or pick up seats in all the areas where it needs to pick up seats and to your point i argue
00:34:52.740that it's a communications problem that the party has and quite frankly it's an honesty a problem
00:34:59.540to mark's point earlier when the leader of the party commits the party and says we are going to
00:35:09.060follow through on net zero by 2050 which is the exact same position as the existing government
00:35:18.340and then when the leader is asked the question how do you intend to get there
00:35:23.860and he's unable to give an answer then it leads the public to question a is he being honest
00:35:31.300and b does he know what he's talking about and i would argue that the problems that he's having
00:35:40.040in the polling data is because the conservative party doesn't really know what it wants to
00:35:46.460campaign on and what it wants to to you know tell the public what it's going to do you can't on the
00:35:52.520one hand say we're going to we're going to meet these targets that the existing government has
00:35:56.720agreed to. And then on the other hand, say, but we're not going to follow through on any kind of
00:36:02.980tax regulatory burden. And David Parker, thank you, Clinton. David Parker, there were at least
00:36:09.820a dozen caucus members in Aaron O'Toole's caucus now who are speaking with media, critical of their
00:36:16.980leader, saying that he's going in the direction of a carbon tax or cap and trade, and that the
00:36:23.040party is moving a direction which they never signed on for and that story was in was in global
00:36:29.040news earlier today i mean is is aaron having to face down a caucus revolt now is is that the
00:36:35.680problem well as as someone who has helped orchestrate one of those um i'll say uh this is
00:36:45.120not a caucus revolt this is a minor blip in the the thing i love about the modern world is
00:36:50.640everything is you know 15 minutes it's like what happened today um i will say this and you know
00:36:57.360what maybe i'll be wrong and clinton will be right but i'll say this fred delori has lost a lot of
00:37:03.240elections and then he won a really important one that no one thought he would and that was uh erin
00:37:09.240o'toole winning and fred delori is probably one of the smartest people that i've ever met
00:37:14.660And you know what? Clinton can talk about polls before an election. There's only one poll that matters, and that is the election. And I'm fairly confident that, in fact, I would stake my entire reputation on this. Aaron O'Toole will get at least 10 more seats than Andrew Scheer did.
00:37:35.420Wow okay so you're talking about in position not quite a forming government but pretty I mean
00:37:44.360the bet would be depending on what the Liberals do so you're saying right now that you're predicting
00:37:49.340that the Liberals will lose seats the Liberals will definitely not necessarily lose seats because
00:37:55.700they're gonna so the way that they're gonna gain any piece are you taking the Tories are gonna
00:37:59.720no there's block seats too there's a lot of seats out there right yeah right now the tories are
00:38:04.840pulling 13 percent and go back the tories are pulling 13 percent and go back and so they're
00:38:09.240right now right now you're talking about a moment in time yeah not a so so the thing about strategies
00:38:15.960is they they don't just materialize immediately first you have to develop them now then you have
00:38:21.320to execute them then you get the result so yes erin o'toole was at three percent against peter
00:38:26.280mckay you're right in that moment of time it looked pretty dire all right let's go i want to
00:38:31.640go to corey and ask him have we maybe failed not to get we have we not given aaron enough of a chance
00:38:36.840because david seems to be suggesting that you know over time it's a strategy that that will work
00:38:42.600corey maybe uh maybe we haven't given aaron o'toole enough of a chance to to make that strategy work
00:38:48.840Well, time's running out. I mean, it's only I think due to a messy vaccine rollout that we
00:38:56.920aren't certainly going to an election within a month or two here right now. You only have so
00:39:01.800much time to build this so far mythical Quebec support and things that are going to turn this
00:39:07.240around. So if there's a great hidden strategy out there, I'm really looking forward to it.
00:39:13.000I don't think putting Polyev on the back bench was a good way to do it. Again,
00:39:18.360every move seems to design to uh frustrate and annoy the core base supporters and i see that
00:39:24.520when i hear core base supporters the ones who have funded the ones who have door knocked the
00:39:27.960ones who put in decades told well that's okay we can lose 15 of your votes anyways because we've
00:39:32.040got to win in central canada what about that what about that argument so maybe we alienate some core
00:39:37.800members of the conservative party uh but uh we offset that with people in toronto in in the 905
00:39:45.640belt in vancouver in halifax because uh it's a zero-sum game uh you know there we get up i mean
00:39:55.080if you just want to win the west then yeah you are going to be confined to opposition no matter
00:39:59.160what you do it's give and take if you're going to you know address one end the thing is though
00:40:05.000that's what leadership is is finding the balance of that coalition to get that broad support without0.90
00:40:10.280alienating big chunks and left and right and when you chucked sloan out the way you did you alienated
00:40:14.840the social conservative base which are not even one of but that's a chunk of that percentage that
00:40:19.160you're really going to have to regain somewhere and what about that david before i go to clinton
00:40:25.640okay look look how clinton how many campaigns have you managed okay clinton go ahead yeah i've
00:40:32.120i've run a lot of campaigns how many i i'm not coming on let him answer i i'm sure mark can
00:40:38.280fill you in on some of my my past background you work for harper how many campaigns have you managed
00:40:44.840Well, I don't want to go down through the list, but leadership candidates.
00:41:13.820you've worked for leadership candidates correct yeah manage the campaign how many are you gonna
00:41:23.760yeah look I don't want to get into that none zero zero well that's that's actually not true
00:41:30.160yeah I know for a fact that Clinton has managed somebody did but he doesn't want to discuss it
00:41:34.940right I've managed all right all right Parker I've managed David how many matter how many of
00:41:42.320you managed 22 22 campaigns all right so there you go so what i will say is this
00:41:48.420every time i show up on a campaign there's people like cory and clinton that show up
00:41:54.540and they tell me everything that i'm doing wrong and really good you know quarterbacks from the
00:42:02.800freaking couch and they and they love to watch the game and they love to be critics but here's
00:42:08.160truth there's only one man whose whose name is on the line here and his name is fred delori
00:42:15.920if fred delori doesn't deliver then fred delori has failed but i will tell you it was fred involved
00:42:22.960in sheer's campaign no oh he wasn't okay that was that was hamish yeah that was hamish and and and
00:42:31.280so you know what the truth of the matter is we can we can all you know yammer on about how smart we
00:42:36.400are and how we think that aaron's failing but i know there's a plan and i know that uh if that
00:42:42.960plan fails it's going to be on one person so i just i just want to jump in so to cory's earlier
00:42:49.600point about the sort of the communication failures around uh net zero for 2050 like here's another
00:42:56.960example the conservative party was starting to gain some traction in recent weeks when it was
00:43:03.280being very critical of Huawei, the telecommunications giant based out of mainland China and its 5G
00:43:10.720networks. And then what happened in the last week or two? The vice president of Huawei Canada was
00:43:19.040hired and put in charge of the Conservative Party war room. So Canadians are looking at this and
00:43:24.560again, it's another one of these sort of, you know, you're literally shooting yourself in the foot.
00:43:29.200And this is another example of poor communications, poor policy decision-making.
00:43:36.020And we're seeing this time and time again.
00:43:39.240So someone like me, I'm not a social conservative.
00:43:42.600And so I should be one of Aaron O'Toole's, like, number one people in his voter pool.
00:43:48.720And I have a hard time trying to figure out what the guy stands for.
00:43:52.420So if I'm having a hard time and Corey's having a hard time and many others, according to all the polling data, then we have to question, you know, is the party interested in appealing to the Canadian public at large?
00:44:06.700Or is it only interested in appealing to sort of the loud voices that give the money and they're great to have for the infrastructure, but you can't win an election.
00:44:21.000You have to appeal to the public at large, and the party just isn't doing that.
00:44:26.920I mean, we started this discussion by your guest quoting verses from the Bible.
00:44:32.460I mean, this is how out of touch we are.
00:44:34.940Do you think some soccer mom in Toronto wants to hear us quote verses of the Bible?
00:44:39.740No soccer moms from Toronto are listening to this.
00:44:42.340uh but but more importantly um look you may not like where i come from and that's okay clinton
00:44:51.800uh but i but i do come from there and i didn't hear clinton say he doesn't like well he said i
00:44:57.780started quoting bible verse and that's a problem well we're not talking clinton i don't know who
00:45:02.480you think you're talking to but we're talking to people the western standards audience which is a
00:45:07.880a group of people that i happen to know very well because i've spent my entire life
00:45:12.620in western politics including the reform and then the alliance and then the stephen harper
00:45:20.100leadership and i'll say this you know what people don't have to like me but the truth of the matter
00:45:25.480is conservatives real conservatives understand that we cannot win with the current with the
00:45:34.280strategy that Andrew Scheer put forward. You realize the Conservative Party's current
00:45:39.000ceiling for its base. No, no. Can I finish? May I finish? Sure. Yeah. The thing is, everyone is
00:45:47.720criticizing Aaron right now because he spent the last six months building a plan to win. And he
00:45:53.880didn't tell everyone what his plan was from the very beginning. Because you know who's listening
00:45:57.640to this right now? Definitely the Liberals. They're listening to every single conversation
00:46:03.640we have. And if we're already broadcasting our plan to everyone, then they're already going to
00:46:09.160know our plan. And what are they going to do? They're going to counter our plan. So it would
00:46:13.600be a very foolish election strategy to tell your enemy your plan before you begin to execute it.
00:46:22.520So yeah, maybe it's down in the polls right now. And hey, Aaron O'Toole could lose. I could be on
00:46:29.180the wrong side of history are you saying so you're saying that there is this plan that they put
00:46:37.420together so basically they got kind of a hail mary that they're getting ready no no not a hail mary
00:46:42.580a very detailed and strategic militaristic plan to target what needs to be done to win
00:46:49.760well the the numbers suggest and i realize that you've been slagging polls and sometimes polls
00:46:57.420are wrong but he seems to be going the wrong way in terms of his likability
00:47:02.280though Cory six months of planning will do that's your likability all right so
00:47:07.260Cory this is this is the argument here that David is making is that it's
00:47:11.220because Aaron's been spending all his time planning strategizing that's why
00:47:16.740his likability is is on the decline yeah well I believe during the planning
00:47:22.040session the tool should be front and center he should be speaking to
00:47:25.440canadians western eastern and so on i mean you don't stop doing everything because you're holding
00:47:30.000a secret apparently plan so in the meantime his support is dwindling there's no getting around
00:47:36.580that and that plan is going to get tougher and tougher whatever the heck that secret plan may be
00:47:41.380if he waits another couple more months to implement it so we'd better see some planning
00:47:46.080to change the trending right now or it's going to be a really big mountain to climb when that
00:47:50.440campaign hit. Corey, I don't want to go after you. I don't feel like we need to be personal.
00:47:57.080There's at least no personal insults. It doesn't have to be any personal stuff anyway. The truth of the matter is you have no idea what you're talking about. You've never been in a national war room. You've never planned a national campaign. You've never even been involved in a national campaign.
00:48:12.140You know, I'm not going to put my resume up here.
00:48:16.840You know, I'm starting to look, I don't want to put TV up for you.
00:48:21.480And to be honest, as we've been seeing from the commenters, nobody's bloody heard of you.
00:48:24.700So don't be questioning our qualifications based on the anecdotes you're throwing out.
00:49:06.440i really do uh i don't believe that the conservatives right now have positioned
00:49:14.280themselves to to appeal to urban voters in uh vancouver or calgary or the gta or the
00:49:26.440the greater halifax area or quebec like it's a this is a real problem and i go back to my earlier
00:49:32.840point they gotta focus on things like pocketbook issues on things like jobs the economy your
00:49:39.400savings your retirement on you know growing the economy getting caught up in this this sort of
00:49:46.680war that's been in the headline of papers now going on two months about derrick sloan and
00:49:53.160campaign life coalition and all of this stuff is not doing the party yeah but david is suggesting
00:49:59.720that that's sloan's fault and so now now that sloan is gone that problem i guess has been0.90
00:50:04.680resolved is that correct but i do want to ask it's not resolved okay what we're seeing happening
00:50:11.160is that again this is not me saying this like we're hearing from journalists that are that are
00:50:16.520interviewing delegates for the upcoming convention where they want to talk about abortion at the
00:50:22.680upcoming convention but what do you do i mean are you okay so are your people david are they being
00:50:29.880purged from the membership role ahead of this policy convention as we've heard from people
00:50:36.520like derek sloan and from the national campaign for life are they being booted off the roles in
00:50:42.840order to prevent a kind of ganging up on erin or tool at that convention i'll say this right now
00:50:50.280the last person who tried to purge my people from from convention was uh andrew sheer we all know
00:50:56.520what happened to him yeah he won well he did lose but he won the popular vote he still got 34 and
00:51:03.720right now that's four percent more than probably six percent more than uh than aaron is polling so
00:51:11.000i i think listen i think aaron would be hard pressed to match the same number of seats with
00:51:17.480all due respect to your prediction earlier David okay well maybe I am but
00:51:22.100right now I would say if there was an election today the Liberals would be
00:51:26.260pretty darn close to a majority territory what do you think Cory well
00:51:31.460they're walking on that edge so it's a swing thing it's pretty important I
00:51:35.580mean it's been almost a bad for Canadians but a gift for Trudeau or a
00:51:40.220tool that the vaccine rollout has really harmed Trudeau because it seems nothing
00:51:45.320else need to be chipping away at his support um and they were clearly getting ready to pull the
00:51:50.360pin pretty quickly here and i just as this is pure speculation on my part but i mean infections i
00:51:56.760feel and everything the pandemic is really going to wind down with a lot of seasonal basis plus
00:52:00.840vaccinations and so on and that's going to be an ideal time for a governing party to say okay this
00:52:06.040is the time to hit the polls people are feeling better they're feeling relieved so it's now we're
00:52:11.720at a point where it doesn't look like it might be a majority for trudeau but that can certainly
00:52:15.320change quickly so it's uh we're getting into campaign mode and we can't keep uh waiting on
00:52:21.720a plan though i mean we really got to start turning that momentum around i mean it's almost
00:52:26.200go ahead clinton yeah one of the things i want to throw in so during this global medical pandemic
00:52:31.640that everyone has seen this was a real opportunity for the conservatives to actually gain some
00:52:37.480support. And what I've argued for some time now is one of the reasons that Aaron O'Toole
00:52:43.940has performed poorly in the polls, and I'm not blaming him for this, by the way,
00:52:49.220is that there's a large segment of the Conservative Party base that considers COVID to be,
00:52:58.100quote unquote, just the flu. And then if you start talking about things like a COVID vaccine,
00:53:04.400then there's another segment of the of the party base that doesn't even believe in vaccines
00:53:09.800and so for Aaron O'Toole he realizes that he sees where the base of the party is and he knows that
00:53:17.480if he talks about COVID and vaccines and things like that that he's going to turn off a large
00:53:24.060number of these people who give money to the party who do the the door knocking and and do the
00:53:29.720campaigning and all of that kind of stuff so he can't he's because of the the base he's not able
00:53:37.040to appeal to a larger segment of the public okay if i heard david correctly alienating those people
00:53:46.160or at least some of those people is part of the strategy now maybe i'm wrong is this is that kind
00:53:51.000of strategy i don't know the strategy this is all perspective right okay yeah um but if i was doing
00:53:58.140it if i was writing this strategy that is exactly what i would be doing so you would okay walk me
00:54:05.260through this you would be deliberately upsetting members of the base who clinton just identified
00:54:12.220some of those anti-vaccine people i don't want those those people are not going to get us to
00:54:19.580okay look what is what is the purpose of a political party to win yes you cannot win
00:54:25.260if your base is literally crazy people so you're going to get rid of the base are you you're
00:54:31.340alienating the base on the base is doing fine the conservative party is hitting record fundraising
00:54:36.700numbers right now but you're saying that some of those people are actually bad for your prospects
00:54:43.340of getting elected am i right members of the base yeah did i hear you correct so some members of the
00:54:48.300base are actually preventing the conservative party from moving forward and winning the election
00:54:53.020do i hear you correct okay so there's we've nailed it down we've nailed it down cory uh the problem
00:54:59.500is you guys is some of these people some of these people who are stock believers in the conservative
00:55:05.900party in the past um have attitudes that are upsetting those in the major centers who
00:55:14.060traditionally vote liberal and they don't want to be associated with you so the idea is to get rid
00:55:18.220of you so therefore to open in order to open the door for more people who would otherwise vote1.00
00:55:23.260liberal you have to get rid of the riffraff and that that's why you got to go so that that's uh1.00
00:55:28.860i believe that's the direction that david is pointing yeah i don't know i don't know where0.91
00:55:35.500to argue with this okay if that's the way to grow go for it all right what do you what do you think
00:55:41.580clinton is that a strategy that might work you deliberately get rid of the riffraff quote unquote
00:55:47.180And, you know, I don't I don't consider those people riffraff, but it seems that if you that there's a certain mindset that suggests that if you get rid of those people, that it would open the door and be more welcoming to those centrists, liberal voters, some of whom are ticked off with with with Justin Trudeau and are looking elsewhere to go.0.84
00:56:09.320but they look at the conservatives and go, I don't want to be associated with that bunch over there,0.84
00:56:13.500you know, those SOCONs. And I don't want to be associated with people who don't believe in0.91
00:56:16.840vaccines. I don't want to be associated with people who think COVID is a hoax, you know,
00:56:21.160so why would I vote conservative? So to answer your point, instead of saying get rid of riffraff,1.00
00:56:28.460the solution is for the leader to take on the vaccine discussion and to embrace it and make0.99
00:56:38.600his issue that is the solution so that people in other parts of the country even people in the
00:56:45.400west that live in the prairies who live in calgary and edmonton people who live in towns that are in
00:56:50.440favor of vaccinations so they feel comfortable with the leader but if the leader is afraid to
00:56:56.200even acknowledge why a vaccine program is important and why it's important for our
00:57:03.400health and for our economy and all of these things then the public is left with the perception
00:57:10.440unfortunately that the sort of the anti-vaxxers the you know it's the the uh covid is a they
00:57:21.080call it a plannedemic right that's the term that these guys use right so it didn't hurt that the
00:57:27.320prime minister himself came out and said that this is an opportunity to force a an economic reset i
00:57:32.920I mean, that fed into a lot of the conspiracy theories.
00:57:35.560But to your point, there's a lot of those liberal voters that aren't really happy with where Trudeau is going.
00:57:42.980And so they're trying to find another home, we think.
00:57:47.460But the problem is, is if the conservatives don't, if the leadership of the conservative party doesn't say, look, we believe in vaccinations.
00:57:56.940we believe that COVID is a real global medical pandemic that we need to deal with in order to
00:58:03.760get our economy humming and rolling again. If they're not prepared to do that, then they're
00:58:09.320not going to get those mainstream votes. And Aaron O'Toole just shook up his communications
00:58:14.800team not that long ago. So is that what needs to happen here, David Parker? I mean, Aaron needs to
00:58:20.440come out and say, all right, here's where we stand as a party. We believe that this is not a
00:58:26.380folks that it's a it's a real the kovat 19 is a is a real virus we believe in vaccines and those
00:58:32.700that segment of the party that uh thinks otherwise well we don't uh we're not gonna have anything to
00:58:38.240do with them is that what he needs to do clinton and i are in fundamental agreement on pretty much
00:58:43.380everything that he just said but but it's more than that right it's the conservatives don't
00:58:48.300want to lose either like this attitude that that the the socans will just leave and they'd rather
00:58:53.760lose than see the Conservatives win is completely ridiculous. Yeah, Corey Morgan and people like
00:59:00.920Corey. And I like Corey. Like, Corey and I have literally talked many times. I like him. But
00:59:06.960that attitude is not conducive to victory. I'll tell you where that might be mistaken.
00:59:18.020The people who come out and say, you know what, we decided that Lisa Wright would be defeated.
00:59:24.320And who's the we? The SOCONs and her riding.
00:59:28.440No, it was the Muslims. It was the Pakistani Muslims in Milton.
00:59:31.040Not according to the national campaign line.0.80
00:59:34.460I'm literally managing the campaign in Milton for the Conservatives right now.
01:00:04.560I've never denied that the pandemic is real
01:00:06.980and that it needs to be addressed and things such as that.
01:00:09.780But again, at the same time, I want to see some conservatism.
01:00:13.300conservatism my issues have been more on the shelving of polio my concerns have
01:00:17.360been on this very aggressive climate plan that sounds like something the
01:00:21.060left liberals may have drafted without having the blanks filled in on how he's
01:00:24.520gonna get to it but again when I show distress with the party I'm told bye bye
01:00:28.420we don't need you so okay carry on so is that what's going on here so people
01:00:33.540like you're being oh there you go David Parker is saying goodbye yeah they say
01:00:39.160you as a detriment yes so he's the problem cory morgan and people like him who think like him or
01:00:48.520they are the problem they are the the uh impediment to keeping uh to victory is for as far as aaron
01:00:56.100or tool and his team is concerned is that right david i i don't speak for aaron or tool or his
01:01:00.500team okay what do you think i'm asking your opinion someone like cory is the reason that
01:01:05.740the conservatives lose wow okay is that is that true clinton no i i don't i don't think so i mean
01:01:11.940cory is is pointing out that he's in favor of a of a message that embraces like the the health
01:01:20.320and the science and things like that around covid but he's but he's also pointing out that he wants
01:01:26.180a little more uh free enterprise i guess is maybe the best way to describe it on some of these other
01:01:32.260issues. And look, I've always argued that conservative governments, whether they're
01:01:38.240federal or provincial, the ones that have always been elected in our lifetimes have
01:01:43.420been the ones that have focused on free enterprise and not getting involved in those morality wars.
01:01:51.780There's also the, yeah, or it's Brian Mulroney or, you know, Ralph Klein in Alberta or Mike
01:02:00.060yeah what about the business and the free enterprise okay what about the
01:02:06.180deplorables though David who spend money and give money but you're talking about
01:02:09.600yeah but isn't that largely due to the very people that you think are the the
01:02:17.520problem if they if they're all feeling like Cory's and they wouldn't be
01:02:20.940donating well I would suggest you that a lot of people who are donating our
01:02:26.040long-time party members some of whom may not particularly like whether mark mark yeah just a
01:02:32.120frank question how many uh how many elections canada returns for uh for donations have you
01:02:39.800gone through in your life oh i've i've been a journalist or a media so have you analyzed the
01:02:45.960data and said hey the conservative party is now 15 above their fundraising from last year and
01:02:53.880and they're probably projected to be 20 percent above it and all right whose people are numbers
01:02:59.400who's giving the money who is donating is it people uh it's all people in alberta saskatchewan
01:03:05.960alberta it's the same people but i thought those were the deplorables though david i thought those
01:03:09.880were the people you want to get rid of i mean the people that you say you don't need you say
01:03:14.760we need to get rid of the 15 percent of burtons that is that is a mistake you told me that they
01:03:21.000are the problem that the people who i did not say that i said that people like cory who are going0.75
01:03:26.760around saying that aaron is defaming them or or or is is separating himself from them is actually
01:03:33.480lying even about how they feel about aaron all right let's let's let's okay let's go around one
01:03:42.520more time they're already donating more after sloan left donations went up okay there you go
01:03:50.360donation votes and uh that's what we gotta look at in the end you could quadruple your donations
01:03:56.840if you get trudeau majority it doesn't matter you know where you don't get a majority you know where
01:04:04.760this is the problem that i alluded to earlier is that corey just hit it he goes you know what's
01:04:09.560more important you're right cory what's more important than donations it's votes listen the
01:04:14.360conservatives outstrip the liberals in fundraising in 2019 but they got their butts kicked no they
01:04:20.600actually got more votes so actually votes don't matter listen everybody knows that the majority
01:04:27.320of them and this is not a criticism where do the votes matter clinton where do they matter
01:04:30.680not in alberta pardon me not in alberta you're missing the point no i'm literally saying the
01:04:40.220point well yeah the alberta votes frankly i mean if the conservative party could take
01:04:49.660you know 50 000 alberta votes and move them to the gta into the 905 belt they would do that in a
01:04:56.160heartbeat i mean they would do that tomorrow uh maybe that's what they're doing mark okay so
01:05:02.120that's the plan that's the that's the 5g that's the 5d chess that uh a game that aaron o'toole
01:05:09.300is playing right now cory let's go right let's go around one more time final comments has uh
01:05:15.340aaron o'toole and the conservative party abandoned conservatives in canada yay or nay
01:05:19.300Corey. Sure, I'll just start. I mean, again, I'm a classical liberal. You know, the social issues were never of concern for me. Again, I'm not up on, you know, saying vaccines don't work and all those things. But again, I guess due to being a small government Albertan, I'm still of the ones that they wave bye bye to. So yeah, I definitely feel abandoned. And as you said, you can sacrifice those Alberta votes. Okay, but I don't see a formula necessarily means they will translate to
01:05:49.280central Canadian votes. It might just be a net loss. We aren't seeing the gains anywhere yet.
01:05:53.700So this hidden strategy. Well, that is a problem because, you know, it's, if you believe in that
01:05:59.820net, well, if you believe in that zero sum game argument, then by all rights, the more, more
01:06:06.780people should be leaning conservative, say in the 905 belt where I'm in Mississauga and Brampton
01:06:11.380and Vaughn and all these other areas in the 905 belt. But so far that's not really happening.
01:06:16.680I'll let you finish in a second there, Parker.