Western Standard - Is Ford angling for Poilievre’s job？

00:00:00.000 China's killing our canola.

00:00:07.340 Forty-five billion dollars gone.

00:00:10.480 Western farmers bleed.

00:00:13.000 Mark Carney?

00:00:14.700 Silent.

00:00:16.260 Made millions off Beijing's dime.

00:00:19.300 He won't fight.

00:00:20.840 He's Beijing's banker, not our prime minister.

00:00:30.000 Good day, I'm Derek Fultebrand, publisher of the Western Standard.

00:00:58.080 Today is April 16th, 2025, and you're watching The Pipeline.

00:01:03.140 I'm joined by our usual host, lineup of guest co-hosts, Nigel Henniford, opinion editor of the Western Standard.

00:01:11.540 Great to be here again.

00:01:13.760 And Corey Morgan, senior Alberta columnist.

00:01:16.580 Always a pleasure.

00:01:17.940 Also joining us, special co-host today is Erica Beruce.

00:01:22.500 She is a columnist for the Western Standard and I forget the exact title, but one of the bosses over at Macamie College.

00:01:31.240 What's the official title, Erica?

00:01:33.140 Yeah, so I look over or I oversee our external relations and then I'm the department head for applied politics and public affairs.

00:01:39.560 There you go. Whatever that means, I assure you, she's very smart. 0.89

00:01:43.120 I can tell you all about it anytime.

00:01:44.900 All right. Well, we've got a, today's got a pretty common theme in the show.

00:01:51.200 It's conservative disunity, both inside and outside of the mainstream conservative parties.

00:01:59.620 Or do we talk about what is Doug Ford, Ontario Premier Doug Ford, up to?

00:02:03.520 Is he angling to take Pierre Polyev's job?

00:02:06.800 Is he helping to, if he loses the election, is he actually hoping he might lose the election?

00:02:12.100 uh will maxine bernier's people's party play spoiler and some ridings with the conservatives

00:02:20.160 whether in tight races with liberals what's the ppc trying to achieve in this election

00:02:24.940 and uh in bc so what are some of my favorite conservative uh infighting is in the bc conservative

00:02:31.120 party uh where they well maybe they might be teaming up with the ndp to quash a private

00:02:39.020 members bill from some rebel, now former conservative MLA, who was kicked out by their

00:02:46.900 leader, John Rustad. We'll be talking about some of the infighting going on in that party.

00:02:52.760 All right. And before we get started, though, this episode of The Pipeline is sponsored

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00:03:19.820 Alright.

00:03:22.300 We're going to start off

00:03:23.420 with what is Doug Ford up

00:03:25.440 to? He's

00:03:27.500 certainly been a figure in the

00:03:29.280 campaign here. Is he angling

00:03:31.340 to take Pierre Polyev's job?

00:03:33.980 Erica, why don't you

00:03:34.760 at the table for us. Yeah. So I think for before a lot of your listeners are shocked to question

00:03:41.380 if Doug Ford is a Conservative or not, let's kind of look from where this is coming. And

00:03:46.880 earlier this week after Corey tonight has had several media appearances and an appearance at

00:03:54.300 the Canada Strong and Free conference where he has been criticizing Jenny Byrne and the Conservative

00:03:59.220 party of Canada's war room or head of office for their campaign strategies. Now, Corey Tanike

00:04:05.360 has ran all of Doug Ford's elections. So then the now premier and former candidate under Corey

00:04:15.140 Tanike, Doug Ford, was asked about these allegations. I think media was trying to get

00:04:19.400 between Corey Tanike, a longtime progressive conservative campaign strategist, and Jenny

00:04:25.620 Burns, a longtime conservative strategist who is the campaign manager and a senior advisor to Pierre

00:04:30.780 Paglia, asking Doug Ford in a press conference earlier this week how he felt about his former

00:04:37.800 campaign manager's comments. He said the truth hurts. So it looks like, you know, Premier Doug

00:04:45.100 Ford is siding with Corey tonight's messaging. I think that there's people that may agree with

00:04:51.260 Corey's sentiment that he has. I think many of us disagree with how he did it because go, you know,

00:04:59.200 crap on the strategy after the election. It doesn't help our Conservative Party. Now, the question you

00:05:04.260 asked, Derek, now that I've kind of laid out the groundwork is, is Doug Ford trying to take

00:05:09.440 Polly Ebb's job? And that would potentially happen if Polly Ebb is not successful on April 28th. 1.00

00:05:15.800 I, as a strong Alberta conservative, call the PCs under Doug Ford pretend conservatives.

00:05:23.240 And therefore, I think it would be very, very hard after Doug Ford has been very close with the prime minister and really aligned with a lot of the things that the liberals have been campaigning on.

00:05:33.700 Very difficult. Should he should there be an opportunity for leadership and should he put his name forward?

00:05:39.020 I think there's a lot of Western Canadians that would question the conservative in his blood.

00:05:45.800 So, look, it's not inappropriate to criticize a campaign.

00:05:51.220 I mean, it's odd for senior people to break ranks publicly, at least during a campaign.

00:05:57.680 I think in Canada we place far, far too much emphasis on the need for unanimity in caucuses and in parties where everyone has to think the exact same thing.

00:06:08.540 If you're not, if you don't think things are going well, I think you're free to speak your mind.

00:06:12.440 But in the case of Corey tonight here, it's hard not to see him as a proxy for Doug Ford.

00:06:19.540 Doug Ford has not even said he's supporting the Conservatives.

00:06:21.420 He's just voting for his local Conservative candidate.

00:06:24.720 I guess, Nigel, do you think it's fair to see Corey tonight as a proxy here for Ford?

00:06:30.480 And do you think this is Ford trying to lay the groundwork?

00:06:36.420 Maybe to sabotage the campaign.

00:06:38.980 If you're being uncharitable, if you're being more charitable.

00:06:41.280 to lay the groundwork for succeeding poly up if he were to lose well certainly he's got that as

00:06:46.680 an option now which he didn't really have before but you know don't overlook the personalities

00:06:53.060 involved here there's been a long striving between uh cory tonight and jenny byrne they have very

00:06:59.660 different approaches to campaigning jenny has the has the top job at the moment cory is obviously

00:07:07.180 had a very successful run with Doug Ford.

00:07:11.980 And there may be a certain amount of, I told you so, going on in that,

00:07:16.340 which has got nothing to do with party politics

00:07:18.180 and absolutely everything to do with personal ambition.

00:07:22.860 I could be wrong, but that's the way it is.

00:07:25.160 So you think this is just...

00:07:26.920 No, I didn't say just.

00:07:28.160 I think there's an aspect of that in this.

00:07:30.660 I mean, a lot of people don't understand

00:07:32.840 that these people have known each other for decades.

00:07:36.040 The last conservative leadership race literally had grudges left over from campus politics with Patrick Brown and Pierre Polyev and Jean Charest, but going back to when these were literally kids at one point.

00:07:50.200 So never underestimate how much personality is.

00:07:52.340 Oh, it's a heavy driver in politics, all right. But, you know, regardless of all that, it's pretty poor form for Corey tonight to be openly criticizing the conservative campaign when we're two weeks away from the election.

00:08:07.400 I mean, man, do you want Carney back? Would you rather have the liberals? That's a difficult one.

00:08:14.760 You know, there's even a little parallel here.

00:08:18.220 Speaking up, saying anything in favor of President Trump at the moment is just not on.

00:08:23.640 Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, got to be Canadian first. 0.96

00:08:27.820 Anybody who breaks that rule loses by default.

00:08:33.440 And yet somehow, Corey tonight, and I think what they couldn't have been without the approval of Doug Ford,

00:08:40.680 thought that it'd be just fine to criticize the conservative campaign

00:08:44.400 and the way that it was being run at a very tense time

00:08:48.320 during the campaign.

00:08:49.680 I just say it's a bad form, not good conservatism, not good policy.

00:08:55.900 Corey, I know you're a born and bred Alberta boy,

00:08:59.000 so you don't necessarily know all these personalities as deeply

00:09:02.580 as, say, someone working in the Ottawa-Toronto bubble.

00:09:05.840 But it's hard to see how, you know, if it was just the first thing

00:09:10.080 at the imperial club or whatever it was called in toronto um if it was just one thing perhaps it

00:09:16.920 was just cory but um it's been repeated and continuing and sustained it's very difficult

00:09:22.660 to see how this would not be done without the blessings of doug ford um we'll get into

00:09:29.500 suitability of doug ford as a leader who could uh deserve the support of western conservatives but

00:09:35.480 But does it look to you like this is Doug Ford trying to, at a minimum, lay the groundwork for succeeding Paulie if he were to lose and in its least charitable interpretation, perhaps hoping that there's an opportunity to succeed him?

00:09:52.140 I don't know if he's looking that far ahead, but there's some bad blood and animosity going on.

00:09:58.520 And I mean, Corey tonight is very well experienced and he knows more than anybody, okay, you don't want to toss a turd into the punch bowl in the last two weeks of a campaign that's this close.

00:10:08.820 And that was, the thing we question now is the motivation for it.

00:10:13.980 Why is he throwing sand in the gears of a campaign at such a critical time?

00:10:18.160 He knows exactly how troubling that has made things.

00:10:22.480 And whatever he is doing at this point, it's hard to see it's not without the blessing.

00:10:26.540 Oh, there's no doubt.

00:10:27.480 I mean, he's connected to Ford and that's going to reflect on Ford no matter how you look at it.

00:10:32.360 So Ford would have reined him in or spoken to it if he didn't want that narrative to be going out there.

00:10:38.080 So is there a long game he's looking at? Possibly.

00:10:41.920 I mean, you got to remember the Ford brothers, too, as frustrating as Doug has been, they're hard to count out.

00:10:47.300 I mean, such an unlikely pair made their way up through Toronto politics and up to the premier's chair.

00:10:52.800 And he's got ambition. You know, Doug could be looking at that top throne.

00:10:57.480 I think there's a lot of reasons why we'd think it'd be pretty unlikely that would happen.

00:11:00.820 But, you know, 10 years ago, would anybody have ever seen him in the premier seat in Ontario either?

00:11:06.260 Four nations.

00:11:07.200 Yeah, so they could be chumming the water, trying to see if they can create the environment where he could make a move.

00:11:13.600 You know, he's just gotten himself another majority provincially.

00:11:16.720 Maybe two years from now, he'll be making the leap.

00:11:19.300 I don't know if their game's looking that long, but it really was a bizarre move on Corey's part and the timing.

00:11:25.480 there's got to be something more behind it than just giving a middle finger

00:11:28.000 to a couple other operatives on the other side that he doesn't like.

00:11:31.000 Erica, I want to come back, pick up on where you were going.

00:11:37.120 Doug Ford, if you can, is not a conservative.

00:11:40.780 He is a populist, I think, in the bad,

00:11:43.740 the word populist has different connotations to different people in parts of Europe.

00:11:48.280 It literally means fascist.

00:11:50.300 To Preston Mene in the Reform Party school, it means anti-establishment.

00:11:54.960 Um, and, uh, and then there's another interpretation where it's just populists are just someone

00:12:00.340 who wants to be popular, runs by the polls.

00:12:03.560 In Doug Ford's case, I think it very much applies there.

00:12:06.980 Uh, he'll do conservative things if conservative things are popular, but he'll do things that

00:12:11.320 are extremely unconservative if he thinks that's popular.

00:12:15.680 Uh, not just water in his wine, it's just the goal itself is power in its own right.

00:12:20.080 Uh, he will, uh, he's now won three majority governments.

00:12:23.220 he doesn't seem to have any great

00:12:25.620 ambition on the policy front of what

00:12:27.720 to do with it other than to have it

00:12:29.700 he's got to want to do something

00:12:31.660 else but

00:12:32.440 I mean right now

00:12:34.900 tensions in the west are

00:12:37.360 they're

00:12:39.260 they're starting they're getting close

00:12:41.800 to a boil again I'm not sure

00:12:43.580 they're at the boil yet what happens

00:12:45.600 on election day could impact that

00:12:47.560 significantly but I think one of the

00:12:49.680 anchors that has kept Alberta and

00:12:51.480 saskatchewan in the federation is the hope the charlie brown football that the conservatives

00:12:58.800 will win and fix everything uh i've never believed the conservatives are gonna like i mean we still

00:13:04.160 had terrible equalization under stephen harper and he was a very pro like he was a calgarian he

00:13:09.120 just he just can't do these great things for the west he can't reform the senate i should mention

00:13:14.040 to senator a lot uh i'm hoping for that one i like the triple e yeah yeah but i mean like that

00:13:19.860 We essentially gave that up

00:13:22.960 when the Canadian Reform Alliance

00:13:25.120 merged with the PCs. We gave that up

00:13:26.960 at the partisan level in exchange for a national

00:13:29.000 conservative coalition that could win.

00:13:32.360 But, you know,

00:13:33.180 the hope that you could at least have a

00:13:34.900 friendly government in Ottawa,

00:13:37.720 however elusive,

00:13:39.560 is, I think, what's keeping Alberta

00:13:41.160 and Saskatchewan in Canada.

00:13:43.600 If even

00:13:45.120 the Conservative Party, if they

00:13:47.160 were to be led by someone like Doug

00:13:49.040 board then it would it in your view would it what impact would that have on support for

00:13:54.560 independence to have a guy who doesn't really have a conservative bone in his body who is

00:13:59.460 through and through toronto uh i mean toity toronto flatmate uh stereotype yeah uh someone

00:14:07.600 who certainly has sounded like he would be uh quite fine if ottawa were to use its powers to

00:14:13.080 place an embargo against the export of alberta and saskatchewan oil something that he would never

00:14:17.360 except for an embargo against exporting cars.

00:14:20.900 Well, what impact, if someone like Ford were to lead the Federal Conservative Party,

00:14:24.820 what impact do you think that would have on the independence or sovereignty movement here in Alberta and Saskatchewan?

00:14:29.580 Well, I don't think our Conservative members would let Ford pass the sniff test and elect him,

00:14:36.100 but I will, for the purpose of this conversation, play into that.

00:14:40.300 They elected Aaron O'Toole.

00:14:41.680 Fair. I think how he led versus how he campaigned was very different, though, too.

00:14:46.740 I think we have proof. He's obviously lying. Okay, well, maybe we should have learned from

00:14:53.160 that. So at very least, I will entertain your hypothetical, Derek, of what that would mean,

00:14:58.660 because I think the reason why we've seen success with other leaders, Andrew Scheer being from

00:15:05.400 Saskatchewan, Pierre Paglia being born in Calgary, and really looking at Western Canada and Alberta

00:15:10.640 as home and relating, and then obviously Stephen Harper, I think it would be detrimental for the

00:15:17.940 conservative movement. And the reason I say that is because it gets into that PC side of things

00:15:23.120 where I don't think Alberta, I don't think Saskatchewan, and even with the BC conservatives

00:15:29.020 now align with that type of the heavy progressive, now I call it pretend conservative, but the actual

00:15:36.600 acronym is progressive conservative. And I just think that it would, um, disengage, uh, we might

00:15:44.740 see a sphere off of a different conservative birdie. I think that people that are part of the

00:15:49.300 movement, um, would not see a home for them necessarily. I think we would go back. We would

00:15:55.880 probably see a fraction like we did in the, um, two thousands with wild bros and the PC party

00:16:01.040 where you didn't feel you had a place within the movement anymore.

00:16:05.540 So should Doug Ford somehow not make it through vetting somehow win from the the votes of

00:16:14.240 our membership, which it could happen.

00:16:19.280 But I do think we have so many members and our point system doesn't give the same benefit,

00:16:24.960 but it does still heavily weigh on opportunity for conservatives, especially in the West,

00:16:30.300 to have a little bit more say than we do

00:16:32.140 in our first past the post electoral system.

00:16:35.380 I think it would decimate our party.

00:16:37.640 It would move us too much towards the center.

00:16:41.020 And I think that populace,

00:16:43.800 under whatever expression you have, has its time.

00:16:46.800 I don't think that that is what our conservative movement

00:16:50.220 or leadership would need coming out of these tariff negotiations,

00:16:53.920 coming out of a very difficult election

00:16:56.140 should we not form government.

00:16:57.660 I would bet more money that Doug Ford might run for the leadership of the Liberal Party when Mark Carney loses.

00:17:05.500 So that's where I think reality sits.

00:17:08.360 Yeah, I'm not taking it as a given the Liberals are going to win here.

00:17:11.020 It's still very tight.

00:17:12.240 The French debate is tonight.

00:17:13.380 The English debate is tomorrow.

00:17:15.620 But the Liberals have an edge in the polls and their vote is more efficient.

00:17:18.540 If the two parties receive the same number of votes, the Liberals will win.

00:17:21.280 And since the NDB have collapsed, it's possible the Conservatives can win the most votes and the Liberals win an actual majority.

00:17:27.660 because the math is so wacky right now with the NDP virtually, you know, headed for a virtual

00:17:32.300 wipeout. Corey, so, you know, based on the, you know, hypothetical, but not wildly hypothetical

00:17:39.400 scenario where the Conservatives do not win here, Mark Carney remains Prime Minister.

00:17:46.660 You know, I'm not as confident as Erica that federal Conservative members couldn't be hoodwinked

00:17:52.700 again, the way they were

00:17:54.920 arguably

00:17:57.100 maybe a few times, but certainly with

00:17:58.780 Aaron O'Toole. Aaron O'Toole

00:18:00.800 had a proven track record

00:18:02.140 as a very squishy

00:18:04.160 pretend conservative.

00:18:07.940 But for,

00:18:09.100 you know, once he found out Paulio

00:18:10.800 was not running against him in that leadership race

00:18:13.020 and his main opposition would be

00:18:14.820 Peter McKay, he says, I'm the true

00:18:16.800 blue conservative. And conservatives

00:18:18.960 bought it.

00:18:20.520 They bloody swallowed it.

00:18:22.700 And then then conservatives were all of a sudden surprised when once he had the leadership and didn't think he needed conservative voters anymore, he campaigned as a liberal with, you know, for carbon taxes, for vaccine passports, really not running that far off from Justin Trudeau.

00:18:37.200 So I'm not that convinced that Doug Ford, who likes nothing more than to win elections, you know, looking at this and say, well, he'll say all the right things to win the votes of Westerners in a leadership race, but then pulls an Aaron O'Toole.

00:18:50.260 how do you how do you think it would pan out uh you know what would be the impact of both the

00:18:56.620 conservative party nationally and the canadian federation nationally if you had doug ford as a

00:19:03.220 conservative leader federally well if you won and i'm kind of with eric i think it'd be a bit of a

00:19:08.400 long shot but it's hard to say i mean if the liberals come in the big push we know from a lot

00:19:12.740 of people be we have to go to the center we have to go to the center that's the usual line we have

00:19:17.120 to out-liberal the liberals which never works but it tempts people but O'Toole could cloak himself

00:19:23.820 because still most people didn't really know who the heck he was uh Ford will say anything and

00:19:28.720 everything to get in but he's got a pretty solid track record of being very cozy with Justin Trudeau

00:19:34.020 and others that whoever's going to be running against him is going to be very clearly putting

00:19:38.960 that up there during the leadership campaign so I I think he would have a tough time winning

00:19:43.940 especially with it as Erica was saying too it's a weighted type of race but it's a first past the

00:19:48.720 vote and I couldn't see Doug winning much of any of those constituencies on this side of Ontario

00:19:54.840 plus frustrated people in northern Ontario but if he won it if he was the new conservative leader

00:20:01.000 the frustration I think among western conservatives would be pretty darn high because now they've got

00:20:06.520 no representation in Ottawa because they got a liberal government in there and they don't feel

00:20:10.280 they've got representation in the Conservative Party

00:20:12.360 either, so

00:20:13.780 crazed, independence-minded people like me

00:20:16.200 would certainly be fanning some flames

00:20:17.960 and we'll see what happens

00:20:20.280 locally. Alright, I'm going to give you some extra time

00:20:22.360 on the next questions, Nigel, because we've got to move

00:20:23.960 to the next time.

00:20:25.940 Alright, so

00:20:27.840 today is all about Conservatives

00:20:30.360 versus Conservatives.

00:20:33.260 Maxime Bernier's

00:20:34.700 PPC.

00:20:36.600 Could it play spoiler

00:20:38.020 to the Conservatives in this

00:20:40.340 election. I haven't watched the whole thing

00:20:42.360 yet, but I just saw

00:20:43.220 Maxi Burnie managed to score an interview

00:20:46.260 on Tucker Carlson.

00:20:48.100 I mean, it's an American program, but a lot of

00:20:50.320 people on the right in Canada watch that

00:20:52.380 too. That's no small thing.

00:20:56.080 Do you think he could play

00:20:57.580 a spoiler for the Conservatives

00:20:59.260 significantly in the election? He certainly

00:21:02.140 could. I was looking at the numbers.

00:21:04.300 I mean, the last election he pulled 5%

00:21:06.460 of the vote. In 21 of the

00:21:08.260 ridings where liberals, there was

00:21:10.160 21 ridings where liberals won, and the

00:21:12.320 amount of vote taken by the PPC

00:21:14.080 would have been the amount that could have put

00:21:16.240 the conservative over the edge. Now, there's

00:21:18.100 a lot of presumption, yes, because

00:21:20.140 a lot of the people who are voting PPC, even when people

00:21:22.240 sour on the conservatives for one reason or another,

00:21:24.700 a lot who would say if they didn't

00:21:26.300 have the PPC option might have just stayed home

00:21:28.440 anyways, or would vote against.

00:21:29.920 I wouldn't have voted for the conservatives under O'Toole

00:21:32.180 no matter what.

00:21:33.340 You can't assume that vote will

00:21:36.380 go there, but a degree of them will,

00:21:38.680 and there's going to be a lot of tight ones. He's running candidates

00:21:40.680 in 247 ridings in this

00:21:42.680 election.

00:21:44.120 Is that more than the Greens?

00:21:46.080 I think it might be, now that they've backed out of a few.

00:21:49.860 But he doesn't have

00:21:50.700 a seat, so he's still, that

00:21:52.120 qualification thing for the debates, he's still

00:21:54.500 kind of out of luck there.

00:21:56.220 But you can't

00:21:58.740 underestimate, especially when you got

00:22:00.500 that Tucker Carlson interview, that

00:22:02.460 influences a lot of people.

00:22:03.840 So I think it's going to impact a number of writings, and if they're very close, then yeah, absolutely, he could actually make the difference.

00:22:12.700 Nigel, you know, Corey raises a good point here.

00:22:17.080 I mean, there's a presumption on both sides of the political spectrum that NDP votes belong to the Liberals and PPC votes belong to the Conservatives.

00:22:28.520 And, you know, there's some logic to that.

00:22:33.840 But not necessarily.

00:22:35.180 You know, as I said, there was nothing on earth that could have moved me to vote for a conservative party under O'Toole

00:22:41.300 that was campaigning for carbon taxes, for vaccine passports.

00:22:45.580 It was just degrees of less terrible than Trudeau.

00:22:50.660 Things are different this time, though.

00:22:53.440 Polyev has moved the conservative party decisively to the right.

00:22:57.820 Maybe not as far.

00:22:59.120 I think he's still a little too soft on things like immigration.

00:23:01.380 But tough on carbon tax, tough on CBC.

00:23:06.500 You know, the party has done more to earn conservative voters this time.

00:23:12.960 What do you think Bernier is trying to achieve in this?

00:23:16.360 You know, when we first formed the PPC, this was coming after his loss to Andrew Scheer,

00:23:22.580 that at the very least was corrupted by the dairy cartels,

00:23:26.500 that at the very worst was a corrupt vote overall,

00:23:29.620 which is i don't know it was a questionable vote um but there was at least the case that this was

00:23:37.700 a point of principle that the conservative party had been corrupted and he had to leave uh the

00:23:42.260 same thing with aaron o'toole perhaps even more so when the party ran very far to the left for

00:23:47.220 a conservative party um but there seems to be less of a raison d'etre for the ppc in this election

00:23:53.920 What's Bernier trying to achieve?

00:23:56.860 That is actually a very good question, because I'm afraid, much as I like Mr. Bernier personally,

00:24:05.120 it's hard to see what the role of a little conservative ginger group could possibly be.

00:24:13.760 You've got the conservative party you said you wanted, with one exception, and that is on the pro-life issue.

00:24:22.880 There is not one party, federally, that represents people who believe that abortion is wrong.

00:24:32.240 So, Mr. Bernier, I know, does take the position that it is a mortal sin.

00:24:40.680 And that would be, he will give a voice, if they choose to vote for him, to those people who agree with him.

00:24:48.100 Which, for the record, I do on that particular issue.

00:24:51.060 so that's where the spoiler comes in if you're strongly pro-life and you have the choice between

00:24:59.580 voting for bernier who is also pro-life and for and that's your most important issue that's your

00:25:07.780 trigger issue as they say in the in the game well then he could take votes and that will give

00:25:14.700 that will take votes away from people who otherwise would vote for what is

00:25:19.000 by all accounts, pretty strong, strongly conservative, conservative party led by Pierre Poitier.

00:25:26.700 Now, is that what he's trying to do?

00:25:28.320 I, you know, I find it unlikely that anybody would go to go to war on that single issue

00:25:35.900 and say, I'm going to be the pro-life voice for Canada.

00:25:39.280 Or is it just a convenience for him that this is an issue on which he thinks he will draw some votes?

00:25:45.780 how strong is his personal convictions

00:25:48.580 you have to ask him, you have to make your own

00:25:50.920 but that's the only

00:25:52.720 place where Mr. Bernier

00:25:54.400 actually makes a substantive difference

00:25:56.380 other than that it's keeping a job

00:25:58.560 open for him as leader of the party

00:26:00.220 In large measure I agree with you Nigel

00:26:02.340 but I would

00:26:04.740 add to that even more

00:26:06.800 so the issue of immigration

00:26:07.980 Polyev has said he wanted to bring levels of

00:26:10.660 immigration down to

00:26:12.460 maybe I'm getting this wrong but I think about a quarter million

00:26:14.760 in a year, not including temporary

00:26:16.860 foreign workers and student visas

00:26:18.880 and whatnot. It's a substantial

00:26:20.860 drop from the insane

00:26:22.760 levels of Carney

00:26:24.720 and Trudeau. But that's

00:26:26.540 still pretty extreme mass

00:26:28.880 migration.

00:26:31.840 Conservatives are so

00:26:33.040 terrified of being labeled nativist

00:26:35.060 and anti-immigration. Well, guess what?

00:26:37.080 Canadians have become,

00:26:39.080 have turned against mass migration

00:26:41.020 because of the actions

00:26:42.800 of the incumbent government right now.

00:26:44.760 um i think there's an appetite for a a pretty maybe not 100 but a nearly a pretty watertight

00:26:51.860 moratorium on immigration right now uh yeah uh the ppc has become a home for pro-lifers but i'm

00:26:58.960 actually not seeing that as their main issues that they're putting forward it's it's mass migration

00:27:04.220 is really they're the really big one and and to actually try to take a unique position of

00:27:09.300 non-engaging and retaliatory tariffs um okay so it's not the main issue that they're putting

00:27:15.340 forward but it's the main issue that a lot of people are going to take from what they're saying

00:27:19.000 sure i mean but there's always been uh erica small like you know you think of the christian

00:27:25.380 heritage party it's everybody knows they're not going to win anything but it's a place to kind

00:27:30.140 of register your your protest vote uh i remember there was a there was a federal by-election in

00:27:35.620 the medicine hat riding

00:27:37.740 when

00:27:39.380 Lavar passed away and the

00:27:41.720 Christian Heritage Party actually beat the federal

00:27:43.540 NDP. But the federal

00:27:45.800 NDP was less than 1%. I was always

00:27:47.620 teasing them that the NDP are the 1%.

00:27:49.700 But

00:27:51.200 I don't know. I think

00:27:53.240 there's some traction with

00:27:55.480 the migration issue. I think the

00:27:57.620 Conservatives are going to still get most

00:27:59.680 of the votes of people who are deeply concerned

00:28:01.780 about masks being out of

00:28:03.720 control they're talking about at least moving it in a less extreme direction but it's it's pretty

00:28:10.760 soft because even though most canadiens like clear majority of canadians now think immigration's gone

00:28:15.380 too far it's out of control and the liberals have started to realize that rain aback um you know

00:28:21.900 there's still so many swing votes and heavily ethnic uh communities people who are often like

00:28:28.540 just very fresh to Canada

00:28:29.980 maybe second generation but very often first

00:28:32.820 I think they're

00:28:34.680 afraid of that and then conservatives in particular

00:28:36.640 are just so afraid with

00:28:38.440 being xenophobic or being

00:28:40.480 called xenophobic I should say

00:28:42.520 how much room is

00:28:46.600 there for the PPC on this because the last election

00:28:48.740 they had COVID and they rode

00:28:50.680 that for us hard

00:28:51.840 because they were so clearly distinctive

00:28:54.620 from the conservative

00:28:56.020 on the major issue of the election

00:28:58.500 How much room is there for mass migration or maybe something else for the PPC to try and wiggle its way in?

00:29:05.960 Yeah, I mean, I don't really know if I don't think they're ever going to get that 5% again, unless Doug Ford is the leader of CPC, I guess.

00:29:15.960 But they're sitting just under 2% now.

00:29:20.460 And like you said, there was a big motivation for getting behind the PPC last time with like a very left leaning leader, with the Conservative Party, with the issue of COVID and your human rights and the PPC being the one that stand up for individuals.

00:29:36.720 And there is within the Conservative movement, lots of individuals that are pro-life that don't see that, even if it is their top issue.

00:29:43.100 I think for Canadians across the board, it's about the economy and cost of living.

00:29:47.960 And so I do think that the play for the PBC would be the mass immigration, because if you look at Pierre Paulyevs, he's kind of reverting it back. I think we can all agree, holy crap, it's gone too far. But how far do you scale back? 1.00

00:30:02.520 I think because of maybe some of the sentiment that was talked about with like the fear of being compared to Trump with Trump, President Trump moving his migration, swinging the pendulum back.

00:30:16.240 Pierre is taking a calculated approach, kind of reforming it to the Stephen Harper era.

00:30:21.700 And I think folks can then tangibly see what that looks like.

00:30:25.520 So the PPC, if they want, they have to go even more mass because that does impact people's cost of living.

00:30:32.520 quality of life, all of those things. And I think that that's where people are looking,

00:30:36.420 maybe not on their issues based such as pro-life, even though the PPC has made that part of their

00:30:42.700 foundation. So I do think the immigration piece, if they want to come out of Bernier is going to

00:30:48.760 come out more aggressive on that. That's probably his room to play because, you know, of course he

00:30:54.900 doesn't support how the liberal party is navigating tariffs. Like that's no surprise. I still don't

00:31:00.700 think that we're going to see that 5%. I looked at the candidates from a Western Canadian

00:31:04.940 perspective. We have a few rural. Last time there was, I live in Edmonton Centre, the PPC vote did

00:31:11.760 cost us the election, but that's not the case in some of the writings like Northwest, in even

00:31:18.180 Manning or Riverbend. Those numbers weren't that close in the last election. So even, and even from

00:31:25.420 a Saskatchewan perspective, same thing. So if we're looking from the West, given its Western

00:31:30.880 standard, I don't think that those 5% are going to play it. Now, I don't know enough about some 0.99

00:31:36.040 of those ridings in Ontario and Quebec to see if that could impact. But when we're looking at what

00:31:41.060 that means for Alberta and Western Canada, I don't see the 5% getting that high. And I don't see it

00:31:48.400 impacting a close election.

00:31:52.340 I think where we're actually hoping

00:31:54.040 is that we see a decent vote split

00:31:57.600 continue to be on the left

00:32:00.680 versus a vote split on the right

00:32:02.220 that we're trying to manage.

00:32:04.000 Okay.

00:32:05.580 So, continuing in today's theme

00:32:08.500 of conservative versus conservative,

00:32:12.260 you know, we've talked in the show previously

00:32:14.260 about whatever the hell is going on

00:32:17.380 in the B.C. Conservative Party.

00:32:19.120 It's unfortunate to see.

00:32:20.900 I don't like seeing this, but

00:32:22.860 it makes good

00:32:24.720 talk content for a show

00:32:27.380 like this.

00:32:29.600 Nigel,

00:32:31.260 there's

00:32:32.700 one of the

00:32:34.520 Conservative MLA kicked out by B.C. Conservative

00:32:37.400 Leader Joan Rustad. It's put forward a private

00:32:39.380 members bill, also backed by two others

00:32:41.480 who quit along with her. So the

00:32:43.280 three independent Conservatives, for lack of

00:32:45.440 better term, in the B.C. Legislature

00:32:47.340 Why don't you set the table on what's the latest in the B.C. Conservative Party drama?

00:32:53.880 Well, it's interesting you should call them.

00:32:56.440 They're probably the only conservatives at the moment in the B.C. caucus.

00:33:01.200 It's tragic what's happened there.

00:33:03.560 Our hearts left last fall when conservatives came from not being a party at all to being a party

00:33:10.280 and then suddenly gaining ground to getting the traction and starting to put boots to the NDP.

00:33:15.880 And bless my soul, came within about two seats of doing that in the election.

00:33:19.900 Great success, conservative and revived NBC.

00:33:24.000 And I thought to myself, well, you know what's going to happen now.

00:33:27.100 They're going to start fighting with each other, and there's going to be, and sure enough,

00:33:32.800 they did not waste much time getting it.

00:33:34.240 They did not waste any time getting it down to it.

00:33:36.400 So the issue here, in this particular case, is that John Rustad, who he sort of liked first,

00:33:43.800 because of all the reasons we've just given,

00:33:46.520 has become another conservative politician

00:33:49.340 trying to avoid stepping on landmines

00:33:52.280 and avoiding controversial positions.

00:33:54.500 But actually, sometimes it might be better

00:33:55.940 to put your fists up with the elbows

00:33:57.760 to use the argo of the day and fight it.

00:34:01.600 So what's going on is that last month,

00:34:04.100 Dallas Brody, this is the MLA,

00:34:07.360 she was expelled from the conservative caucus.

00:34:10.280 And the reason was that she was challenging

00:34:12.020 the narrative about the buried bodies at the Kamloops Indian Residential School.

00:34:18.340 Two other conservative MLAs went with her, and a lot of people think that way across the party

00:34:23.620 divide because there has been no evidence presented that there are actual human remains on the grounds

00:34:30.660 of the Kamloops Residential School. But you're not allowed to say that. So you're not allowed

00:34:36.180 to say, show me the evidence. So Rustad terminated her membership of the conservative caucus.

00:34:44.820 Now, booing ahead, as Tom Flanagan wrote in the Western Standard just this last Sunday,

00:34:52.180 many elected politicians, and this is what sets Dallas Prody apart, many elected politicians,

00:34:59.060 unfairly expelled from their party would just hide out in their offices until their term was up,

00:35:05.380 take the salary, pension if there is one. That's not what she did. She came up with some very

00:35:11.780 conservative legislation. She called it the Tax Relief and Tariff Defense Act, and it was a much

00:35:21.780 needed counterpoint to Premier Eby's Bill 7, which would leave BC's high taxes untouched while

00:35:28.900 neutering the legislature and centralizing all power in the cabinet. We talked about this a

00:35:33.940 week or two ago. It was a total takeover from the Senate. Well, anyway, she

00:35:39.340 brings forward this very conservative piece of private legislation, and instead

00:35:45.760 of sort of saying, well, we can work with this, we don't like this, we don't like

00:35:49.480 that, but let's sort of get behind this, Rostad just cut her off of the

00:35:55.360 ankles and the thing has already gone into the trash can. So you have the BC

00:36:01.060 conservatives making column calls with the bc ndp and the bc green which is worth mentioning

00:36:07.060 because they actually do have a uh you know a balance of power vote in the bc legislature

00:36:13.300 and uh all this good conservative stuff went nowhere now you know the takeaway here is that

00:36:22.020 when it comes right down to it bc's conservatives are like so many other conservatives across the

00:36:28.420 country who would rather fight with each other than go hard on the issues that matter to other

00:36:35.720 conservatives we forever let the other side decide what we're allowed to oppose instead of defining

00:36:43.760 our own battlefield and those who are bold find out as dallas brody did that they're out there

00:36:51.020 on the level. So, I mean, I'm having PTSD flashbacks.

00:36:57.780 I was just gonna ask, I'm like, Derek, how did you feel?

00:37:01.760 I'll go to you, Erica. I remember, you know, I put forward

00:37:06.560 private members motion in the legislature to cut MLA pay, I

00:37:11.300 think, five or 10%. I can't recall. And

00:37:16.140 you eventually got your way.

00:37:17.420 at that time and jason kenny had actually worked with rachel notley behind the scenes

00:37:22.660 to ensure it was never debated uh it was introduced and then no one stood up to even

00:37:28.240 debate it and then the ucp under kenny and the ndp under notley you uh unanimously minus my vote all

00:37:35.780 voted against it and i think uh in in the case of the ucp and it's funny then jason kenny turned

00:37:41.800 around and did just that once he was

00:37:43.760 president. It's an election promise, yeah.

00:37:46.120 So the goal

00:37:47.600 wasn't necessarily opposition to the substance of

00:37:49.760 it, is we don't want to let

00:37:51.580 someone else be seen to

00:37:53.700 be doing this, or attention for

00:37:55.360 the rebel conservatives in

00:37:57.640 the corner.

00:37:59.640 To me, that's what it looks like. I'm not sure

00:38:01.600 John Russ said that the conservatives opposed this on principle.

00:38:04.300 It would appear to me to be

00:38:05.680 they want to starve them of oxygen.

00:38:08.580 That appears to have had

00:38:09.700 the opposite effect, at least with this

00:38:11.780 show but i i don't know does it look to you like that that's what it is they're just trying to make

00:38:16.260 starve the rebel conservatives of our of any oxygen on their own you know what if i was on

00:38:20.760 any other show i would have used you as an example of basically but i let you you know you telling

00:38:27.280 the story from your lived experience is far better for the viewers i think it is a it wasn't our idea

00:38:33.420 so we're going to squash it i would not be surprised if the bc conservatives um you know

00:38:40.020 rejigged this and brought forward their own, um, either motion or private members bill that very

00:38:47.800 much mimics it, but we'll want to take credit for it because looking at the value of the,

00:38:52.680 the private members bill, it does show a lot of things. I think that a conservative

00:38:58.260 party, um, can get behind. I think this was a strategy of, well, if it's not our idea,

00:39:04.900 speaking for both the government, I mean, the government's going to vote against it because

00:39:08.140 it contradicts exactly what they brought forward or enhances what they did. And that means that

00:39:13.620 they have to accept they're wrong. But for the BC Conservatives, I think the strategy was this

00:39:17.740 person was a part of our team. Listen, let's compare it to days now. Pete Guthrie, who's no

00:39:23.060 longer sitting with the UCP and Scott Sinclair, I can guarantee if they bring anything forward,

00:39:28.400 just by natural de facto of how party politics works, the government would not adopt it either.

00:39:34.680 so unfortunately when we think of

00:39:36.860 democracy where the best idea

00:39:38.800 should come forward and everyone should get

00:39:40.820 behind it regardless of partisanship

00:39:42.640 and what's in the best interest of

00:39:44.920 your residents that's not

00:39:46.940 the case and I think this is like

00:39:48.820 yours Derek

00:39:49.640 a prime example of that

00:39:52.440 this isn't just one

00:39:56.700 person though you know

00:39:58.840 when I was in my fight with Kenny it was me

00:40:00.460 versus him in the legislature

00:40:01.740 Dallas Brody here though has got

00:40:04.680 two others with her. This is a

00:40:06.640 bigger split.

00:40:08.820 And it's a split that

00:40:10.580 appears to be

00:40:12.700 Rostad's leadership position was not

00:40:16.600 as solid as Kenny's. Kenny had just been elected UCP

00:40:18.640 leader, was going into an election.

00:40:20.440 Rostad's come out of an election here, and he's

00:40:22.520 going to face at least some

00:40:23.940 questioning of his leadership. It's not

00:40:26.120 unassailable yet.

00:40:29.720 Is this

00:40:30.580 going to drive

00:40:32.060 the divides wider?

00:40:34.680 What impact do you think it could have on Judd and Rustat's leadership?

00:40:37.920 Well, it'll be tough.

00:40:38.980 I mean, he's got to sort this out.

00:40:40.220 If there's going to be any time for it to happen,

00:40:42.420 then they might as well do it now.

00:40:43.540 They've got close to four years before they have to go to the polls again.

00:40:46.700 So iron it out.

00:40:48.060 Either Rustat has to figure out his leadership

00:40:49.720 and pull this party back together,

00:40:51.340 or the caucus has to determine whether they can maintain him as the leader.

00:40:56.400 Like, this is the time now.

00:40:57.780 Spend a year getting your crap together.

00:41:00.120 We've got to remember, this was a party that was formed so quickly.

00:41:03.140 They don't have tight glue bonding them. They don't have the years of time together to figure out their internal structures or relationships even. So, I mean, it might very well tear them apart, but I wouldn't write the party off yet either. I mean, this could be just a very bad road bump in that first year after the election that they can overcome.

00:41:23.520 Rustin's realized he can't just lay down the law.

00:41:25.460 They aren't going to put up with it.

00:41:27.140 He's going to have to find compromise and show leadership to pull everybody together.

00:41:30.740 And those who left the caucus, it certainly doesn't, they'll never be able to come back.

00:41:37.080 I mean, things can change.

00:41:38.380 We'll see how this unfolds.

00:41:39.640 It's not a good start, though.

00:41:41.200 Okay.

00:41:42.880 Well, it starts over.

00:41:44.140 It's now time for parting shots.

00:41:46.000 And since you're our guest here today, Erica gets the first shot.

00:41:50.440 All right.

00:41:50.740 Well, the federal French debate is this evening, so I have to go and do my parting shot towards Mark Carney.

00:42:00.040 I can speak French. I would not say I'm fluent or bilingual.

00:42:04.400 And I myself think that I might have better French than our current sitting prime minister.

00:42:10.240 So the truth, the truth hurts.

00:42:13.720 So, right.

00:42:17.820 Man, I know one word.

00:42:19.460 That would be the word you knew.

00:42:23.240 So, like yesterday, a CBC reporter asked Carolyn Levitt.

00:42:27.620 I was surprised that the CBC got into the White House at all.

00:42:30.380 But anyway, they did.

00:42:31.960 I would bless them for asking, and bless the White House for letting them in.

00:42:35.280 And they asked Carolyn Levitt if Trump still believes that Canada should be the 51st state.

00:42:41.140 Now, what's wrong with that?

00:42:43.960 Well, the fact is there has been nothing from the White House on that subject for some weeks.

00:42:49.460 There's been plenty on other things.

00:42:51.340 But why bring that up right now in the middle of an election when the Liberal Party is riding high on the protecting Canada thing?

00:43:01.000 This is an example of a reporter generating a story by asking a question when there is no story.

00:43:08.960 And you wonder why we want to defund the CBC.

00:43:13.700 All right, Corey.

00:43:15.580 Well, I was happy to see justice finally come up in a federal election.

00:43:18.640 it never does often enough. And Polly, I'm pointing out what I think the vast majority

00:43:23.620 of people think. If you've got a multiple murderer, you don't get 10 for the price of one.

00:43:28.440 We should be able to get consecutive sentencing for them and make sure that we put them away for

00:43:33.200 life. And all of the chattering classes have been flying out of the woodworks saying you can't do

00:43:38.980 that. The constitution won't allow it. So to Polly's credit, so you said, I will use the

00:43:43.020 notwithstanding clause. But if we'd have to use the notwithstanding clause to put a multiple

00:43:47.260 murderer in jail for life,

00:43:49.620 maybe it's time to open up that constitution

00:43:51.260 again.

00:43:52.600 I forget. I'll have to

00:43:55.140 paraphrase it, but I

00:43:56.080 generally, I think the CBC headline

00:43:58.980 was not

00:44:01.020 technically inaccurate, but was wildly

00:44:03.000 misleading. It was something to the effect of

00:44:05.060 Pauliev promises to be

00:44:07.020 the first prime minister to use an unwithstanding

00:44:08.880 clause to override

00:44:10.940 rights or something like that.

00:44:13.500 I mean,

00:44:14.680 okay, let's talk about whose rights.

00:44:17.260 I mean, someone who is convicted, not someone who's not me.

00:44:20.500 I mean, if this was about lessening the burden of proof on the Crown or something,

00:44:24.940 okay, I'd be with you. That's bad.

00:44:27.340 But it didn't say Paulyov promises to use non-bestending clause to keep murderers in prison.

00:44:32.240 It was he promises to use non-bestending clause to override rights or something like that.

00:44:37.980 I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of the headline.

00:44:40.580 It was so classic CBC.

00:44:43.460 Alright, speaking of rights and court decisions, my parting shot, something good from England for once in a long time. The UK's Supreme Court has ruled that trans women are not, in fact, women under the Equality Act or whatever it was called. 0.99

00:45:05.240 Right now, Britain is busy putting people in prison for memes while, you know, letting criminals roam the streets and terrorize indigenous Britons.

00:45:17.200 But this was a sign that perhaps the UK Supreme Court isn't as loopy and far gone as our own.

00:45:28.220 So good for your people.

00:45:29.740 All right. That's it for today's show.

00:45:34.700 Wait a minute, I've got a question for you. Are we not having a commentary on...

00:45:40.460 Good. Good that you're here to remind me. Tonight might be the Francais debate, but tomorrow is

00:45:49.020 the English debate. Unfortunately, the way it's working, only Quebecers will get to have, or the

00:45:57.660 French, will get to have any part of the debate talking about immigration, which just happens to

00:46:01.900 be one of the single biggest issues right now uh i guess only the french get to talk about that not

00:46:07.260 us uh explanations i've heard are well it's it's a bigger and more important and distinctive issue

00:46:13.420 in quebec i thought theoretically these the french debate was not a technically quebec debate it was

00:46:18.940 a french debate because we have this by the i have the i have french in my cereal box in alberta so

00:46:24.380 i think i get to have a say over it too um anyway that's a long way of me ranting say you need to

00:46:31.260 all tune in and watch our coverage

00:46:33.080 of the English

00:46:34.340 leaders debate tomorrow.

00:46:38.240 We are starting

00:46:39.100 at 4.30.

00:46:40.980 The debate itself starts at 5, but we'll

00:46:43.240 be giving you our excellent, most

00:46:45.420 informed, extremely intelligent

00:46:47.260 thoughts, beginning at 4.30.

00:46:49.420 Mountain Standard. Mountain.

00:46:50.840 Of course.

00:46:53.040 People watch this across. Have I ever said

00:46:55.340 anything on

00:46:56.360 Eastern Time? I don't

00:46:59.260 think so. Calgary is the center

00:47:01.180 of the universe, not Toronto.

00:47:03.660 So 4.30

00:47:04.760 Berta time.

00:47:07.000 Tune in. We'll be carrying the

00:47:09.200 whole thing with a little bit of pregame.

00:47:12.260 We'll

00:47:12.780 broadcast the debate itself while

00:47:14.880 two of us drink beer

00:47:16.960 and one of us drinks

00:47:18.920 Diet Coke.

00:47:21.500 And then

00:47:23.260 we'll be back, hopefully not after

00:47:25.160 too many beers, and we're still able to give

00:47:27.200 you some coherent and intelligent

00:47:29.060 commentary. So make sure to tune in

00:47:31.100 and join us then. We'll be watching the comment section

00:47:33.220 too. We also are going to have

00:47:35.320 Western Standard reporter Jen

00:47:37.320 Hodgson on the ground in

00:47:39.280 Montreal. We have sent her into

00:47:41.120 exile out of the Calgary headquarters here.

00:47:43.640 Send them right into the 0.75

00:47:45.060 lion's den. She'll be asking the leaders

00:47:46.980 questions both tonight for the

00:47:49.080 French debate and tomorrow

00:47:51.100 for the English debate.

00:47:53.940 That's it.

00:47:54.920 Now that I'm actually done, thank you for the reminder.

00:47:57.180 And also

00:47:58.860 remember, thanks to your generous donations

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Western Standard - April 17, 2025

Is Ford angling for Poilievre’s job？

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