Western Standard - January 15, 2026


Kamloops Coverup： Ottawa refuses to release 'mass grave' documents


Episode Stats

Length

48 minutes

Words per Minute

172.37576

Word Count

8,283

Sentence Count

381

Misogynist Sentences

6

Hate Speech Sentences

16


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of The Pipeline, we're joined by former Western Standard Opinion Editor Nigel Hannaford, Senior Alberta Columnist Corey Morgan, and former WSP editor-in-chief Dave Naylor. We talk about the Kamloops Holocaust, the government blocking access to information on the mass graves found in the area, and the return of the OG Pipeline.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Today and welcome! Today is January 14th, 2026.
00:00:28.140 I'm Derek Fildebrandt, publisher of the Western Standard, and you're watching The Pipeline.
00:00:33.160 Joined by our usual lineup of former Western Standard opinion editor, Nigel Hannaford.
00:00:39.840 Great to see you all.
00:00:40.800 Senior Alberta columnist, Corey Morgan.
00:00:43.100 And an OG Pipeline member, we think probably permanently.
00:00:50.500 We'll see how much, how he likes it.
00:00:52.520 But bringing Dave Naylor back to the Pipeline.
00:00:55.480 Dave, I remember when, you know, this was just a tiny little wee baby company,
00:00:59.700 and we'd be doing this from our living rooms, just to kind of help.
00:01:03.620 Staring at the laptop on kind of a Zoom thing.
00:01:07.240 The pipeline was you and me, and sometimes Corey.
00:01:10.260 Corey, were you an OG pipeline?
00:01:12.020 Yeah, because it would be those weird ones where you had to clip out the screen
00:01:14.840 to get the faces in for posts.
00:01:17.200 It was very...
00:01:18.320 I think they're still on YouTube if somebody really wants to scratch.
00:01:20.820 God, they're rough.
00:01:21.760 They are rough.
00:01:22.920 But Dave, welcome back to the pipeline.
00:01:24.580 Good to be back as the eye candy of the panel.
00:01:28.100 You're our sunshine girl.
00:01:29.500 Looking pretty as there you go.
00:01:30.840 Yeah.
00:01:31.660 Okay.
00:01:33.300 Well, the, I guess, second petition to trigger a referendum on Alberta independence has begun.
00:01:42.720 The first petition on Alberta independence was launched by anti-independence federalists
00:01:49.540 until they realized that launching a referendum on staying in Canada
00:01:53.800 also means that people can vote no and therefore leave.
00:01:58.440 And then they panicked and pleaded not to have a referendum on that.
00:02:01.960 So that kind of cleared the way after wasting everyone's time and effort and money.
00:02:06.580 Cleared the way now to the pro-independent side to collect their signatures.
00:02:12.780 And it's off to a pretty strong start.
00:02:15.480 We'll be talking about that.
00:02:17.580 Will Mark Carney pivot to China as the United States becomes more assertive and dominant in its hemisphere and bellicose, some might say?
00:02:29.960 Mark Carney is on his way to China. China is quite explicit that Canada should pivot away from the United States and join PAX China.
00:02:40.940 And I'm sure that will not result in the immediate kidnapping in an overnight operation by Delta Force of Mark Carney.
00:02:49.420 And he'll get to show up for some kind of charges at New York State Court.
00:02:55.080 First, we're going to start with a great story.
00:03:01.260 It's been a long time coming, but the federal government has lost its appeal.
00:03:10.940 with the Federal Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner
00:03:15.240 for an accessed information request
00:03:18.240 to get the report on these mass graves
00:03:22.020 from the Kamloops Holocaust,
00:03:25.300 the genocide that took place there with the mass graves
00:03:28.560 where people were just slaughtered by thousands or hundreds
00:03:32.980 or whatever the story is.
00:03:36.860 Some intrepid reporter, I'm not sure who,
00:03:38.800 do we know which, who?
00:03:39.720 Black locks.
00:03:40.940 Of course, it's black locks.
00:03:42.640 Those dastard little buggers.
00:03:46.240 They filed an access to information request.
00:03:49.140 And Ottawa said, no, you can't have a report on this genocide.
00:03:52.180 You just need to accept it.
00:03:53.880 Dave, why don't you fill it in a little from there?
00:03:56.580 Yeah, if you remember when the local band, who's got an unpronounceable name,
00:04:01.700 the Kamloops band, we'll call them,
00:04:04.780 said they had found the graves of 215 children.
00:04:07.700 The country collectively lost its mind, we lowered flags, and Justin Trudeau was pictured with teddy bears.
00:04:15.400 The ban was given $12 million to go ahead and do something to make the thing real or not.
00:04:27.840 And it turns out that one of the things, one of the catches on that $12 million was they had to file reports as to what they've done with it.
00:04:35.000 And that's the information that Black Locks first asked for.
00:04:39.560 And there's 576 pages and the feds said, no, we're not giving it to you.
00:04:47.060 So Black Locks then went to the information commissioner, appealed, and now the information officer has ordered it released within the next month.
00:04:55.840 So will they release it, I guess?
00:04:58.240 Or will they maybe go up to a higher court?
00:05:00.620 They fought court battles to keep papers hidden before, and they may do it again.
00:05:07.140 But I think, Corey, I think you were one of the first media people to speak out loud that it's a hoax.
00:05:14.360 I think so.
00:05:15.100 I mean, it really was, you know, and at first I was horrified like everybody else.
00:05:19.000 People ask why I get so ticked off about this.
00:05:20.980 Part of it was when I first saw the reports, I thought, oh, my Lord, they've murdered children in a school.
00:05:25.500 This is awful.
00:05:26.640 I mean, this is a black mark on Canadian history.
00:05:29.800 let's let's rectify this deal with this i don't know a month maybe two months in is it was getting
00:05:35.320 more evident that they're stalling any further investigation i mean anything else where you got
00:05:40.440 215 buried children you're going to exhume you're going to have criminal investigate
00:05:44.520 and uh finally enough like okay this this stinks and more and more though we saw some major you know
00:05:50.680 media members and others finally but but the backlash you would get initially for daring to
00:05:54.680 question it was was uh unreal and now it's at a point i think everybody kind of realizes there's
00:06:00.040 nothing there and now the government's trying to cover it up i uh we gotta we gotta insert this
00:06:04.520 clip uh you remember the jim carrey 90s movie liar liar he's a lawyer he can't lie for a day
00:06:11.800 and at one point he says i object your honor i object and why is that mr reed because it's
00:06:18.360 devastating to my case. Overruled.
00:06:20.900 Good call. I feel like that's
00:06:22.140 that's what's here
00:06:24.420 right now. You know, people are saying, I object.
00:06:26.500 Show us the evidence.
00:06:27.960 Show us the evidence. And Ottawa says, I object.
00:06:30.180 And we say, why? Because it'll
00:06:32.340 show it's a lie. I was
00:06:34.340 like you, Corey. I took this as like
00:06:36.220 I can't believe this happened in Canada.
00:06:38.520 I mean, no country's perfect. No country's been
00:06:40.300 all cooperation
00:06:42.500 and getting along its entire
00:06:44.380 history. But this is
00:06:45.380 a real black stain. If true.
00:06:47.760 yeah let's see
00:06:50.340 and
00:06:51.780 we expect basic
00:06:54.380 due process
00:06:55.460 we're going to collect some evidence
00:06:58.180 how many bodies have been found in any
00:07:00.360 of these mass graves
00:07:01.680 not one so far
00:07:03.780 not one
00:07:05.220 and
00:07:07.980 the
00:07:09.500 Nigel
00:07:10.900 the feds
00:07:14.340 I don't know what is it
00:07:15.740 I mean the obvious thing is
00:07:17.520 they're i think very worried that it's going to show no there there are nobodies uh but i don't
00:07:23.860 know am i am i being a little too out of left field and supposing that just possibly this band
00:07:30.800 didn't how wild speculation is it that maybe they spent some of the money on things that have little
00:07:37.220 to do with actually getting some evidence well that of course would justify that you request for
00:07:41.540 documents to these are progress reports you see that they're supposed to file as the as the um
00:07:48.500 condition of getting this money advanced to them uh so what you go what you see i gather if you go
00:07:55.380 i haven't been down to can loops to take a look but uh people who have some it's all fed stuff
00:08:00.180 and sacred ground and you know don't even look at it never mind try to try to uh excavate in there
00:08:06.980 or think of anything like that.
00:08:09.040 Look, there's a bigger game going on here,
00:08:12.320 a much bigger game.
00:08:14.080 I stuck my neck out a couple of years ago
00:08:16.380 when I was challenged on the point.
00:08:17.700 I said, if you show me the evidence,
00:08:21.180 I will say that, yes,
00:08:23.440 I will say what the evidence indicates,
00:08:26.120 but right now we have no evidence,
00:08:28.900 and therefore I'm not prepared to say
00:08:30.840 that this all happened just as described.
00:08:33.700 So why do they hang on to the narrative?
00:08:36.500 Well, look, let's be honest about it.
00:08:38.500 There's a move to give Canada back to indigenous people at the moment.
00:08:43.420 Now, most people say that's ridiculous.
00:08:44.900 We're not going to do that.
00:08:46.160 But if they're made to feel guilty, they might.
00:08:49.080 And you can see it at work in B.C. right now with the things that Mr. Eby has authorized.
00:08:55.100 You can see it with the narrative that is infecting the B.C. Supreme Court as it makes its judgments on things like the Cowichan case.
00:09:05.880 and you know if everybody and by the way it's just not white people and people descended from the uh
00:09:12.680 from white people who are affected by this everybody who has come into this country whether
00:09:16.760 they came from india or pakistan or the middle east all now have an interest in the outcome
00:09:24.040 and the outcome depends ultimately on whether you can convince the rest of canada that a terrible
00:09:30.360 thing was done and in recompense you have to do other things which will cost you money and could
00:09:37.160 even alter the character of the country so this is why this narrative is so important this is why
00:09:43.000 they don't want to give you the information because if you blow the narrative up that whole
00:09:48.120 process is set back years i i think you're you're right and it it feeds into the agenda around
00:09:55.160 delegitimizing Canada for
00:09:57.200 indigenous rights and indigenous
00:09:59.340 land-backed claims, all these
00:10:01.380 things. I think it also fits into
00:10:03.240 the broader agenda
00:10:04.860 of white guilt complex
00:10:06.960 that has afflicted Western
00:10:09.120 societies since the end of the Second World
00:10:11.240 War, some more than others, but
00:10:13.120 has afflicted everyone.
00:10:15.360 And this feeds into it more deeply
00:10:17.200 that we need to be collectively
00:10:19.440 guilty, collectively
00:10:21.020 ashamed of who we are.
00:10:23.680 No one alive did anything,
00:10:25.680 but we need to be collectively guilty of our civilization,
00:10:28.200 of our ancestors, of our nations, of our people.
00:10:30.980 That's exactly right.
00:10:32.060 That's what this is about.
00:10:34.360 That's the left-wing approach to changing the world,
00:10:36.800 is to move from a point of where everybody is accountable
00:10:39.860 for their own actions to where groups of people
00:10:43.100 are accountable for actions of their ancestors.
00:10:46.620 I'm not sure just the left is responsible here.
00:10:48.400 It's the left driving it,
00:10:49.520 but the right allows it to succeed when it acquiesces to it and you saw this with the bc
00:10:55.120 conservatives uh trying to kick out people for uh for questioning this uh you know it's the part
00:11:00.540 of the split that went on there uh you see a real muzzle put around federal conservative mps around
00:11:06.420 this because even though those in power in the conservative movement conservative parties they
00:11:11.120 know this is bullshit they still are afraid to question this because someone's going to call
00:11:17.460 them racist on Twitter, and so they
00:11:19.480 silence themselves. So it's the left driving
00:11:21.480 this, but I think it's the right that's actually
00:11:23.360 responsible for making it a kind of
00:11:25.340 metapolitical consensus when they acquiesce
00:11:27.660 to it. Well, absolutely. It's time
00:11:29.620 to, you know, the right has got to name it
00:11:31.520 and shame it. Well, if this is blown
00:11:33.380 off, though, this will embolden people to start
00:11:35.440 questioning, because this is the first domino.
00:11:37.820 If this is proven to be a
00:11:39.460 hoax, if the evidence is showing this never happened,
00:11:41.600 the bodies aren't there, we've got that
00:11:43.380 whole truth and reconciliation report
00:11:45.440 with a lot of questionable allegations in there too.
00:11:49.180 And I think people will now say,
00:11:50.460 well, if that was BS,
00:11:52.220 we should be entitled to maybe look a little more closely
00:11:54.680 at some of the claims that were made
00:11:56.320 throughout all of this,
00:11:57.720 because what they did with that,
00:11:59.060 people are forgetting two things that were problematic.
00:12:02.020 One, of course, they took all oral history
00:12:04.040 at stock value as if it was fact without evidence.
00:12:07.340 And there was no cross-examination.
00:12:08.800 No, and there was actually a scale
00:12:12.000 of compensation for victims.
00:12:14.520 So they were very incentivized to make it out that they suffered the most horrible possible things, which some I don't know were probably true, but now we will have, I think people say, well, I think I want to hear a little more because there's a whole lot of billions that got put out based on this.
00:12:31.820 When we can see a fraud being as large as that level, I think it's not unfair to now scrutinize some of the other claims and they're terrified.
00:12:39.760 No, and you're right.
00:12:40.560 It is the business of being a victim.
00:12:42.220 And this band got 12 million bucks.
00:12:46.100 We don't know what they did with it.
00:12:47.220 Wasn't there some, was it this band or a different band where they found a ton of money was spent on communications consultants?
00:12:53.280 No, that was this.
00:12:54.680 This was the same guys.
00:12:56.100 $12 million, by the way, Dave, if memory shares me right, is part of a $300 million program.
00:13:01.580 So there's a lot of the rest.
00:13:03.360 And you know, it's just, if only there was a way to solve it.
00:13:07.380 You and I could go and spend an afternoon digging and we'd solve the whole thing.
00:13:11.100 yeah well we're in pretty poor shape we could hire a couple but yes it is it really is that
00:13:17.580 simple that's what's annoying with this you don't need some evidence is right massive technology
00:13:21.980 you have exhume a grave it's done a lot and we won't do it why hasn't the rcmp gone because it
00:13:28.300 if there's 215 dead children that's a crime it was specifically told to stay out of it
00:13:33.420 well remember there was a huge controversy it's one reason for uh the way the last manitoba
00:13:38.780 election went. There was, I think,
00:13:40.840 one, maybe two, but
00:13:42.580 I think one missing body from an
00:13:44.600 indigenous person. Two in the wind of figs.
00:13:46.340 Two in the wind of figs. Two in the wind of figs.
00:13:48.000 Landfill. And, I mean,
00:13:50.420 it was wildly uneconomical. They already knew
00:13:52.500 what happened to them. But
00:13:54.300 it became a rallying point
00:13:56.240 for people. It was a political issue, and so
00:13:58.260 huge amounts of money were spent
00:13:59.980 to find and exhume these
00:14:02.400 missing bodies.
00:14:04.120 Okay. We knew there were
00:14:06.300 bodies there. This was a murder, and we knew
00:14:08.500 the bodies were there and we spent incredible or manitoba taxpayers spent an incredible sum of money
00:14:14.980 to get those bodies it's like 180 million dollars wasn't it it was something incredible
00:14:18.900 you know it was an incredible amount of money to find some bodies and i i don't want to be callous
00:14:23.220 but it was a it was a questionable decision but either way the decision was made to spend a huge
00:14:28.980 amount of money to find these bodies because we had to get the truth and put these people to rest
00:14:33.140 why won't we do it here where there should be theoretically mass graves and it's incredibly
00:14:39.740 cheap to do it well that exposes another part of the hoax in winnipeg there were family members
00:14:44.700 and records of the two missing women and everything with these 200 alleged children
00:14:49.000 who were buried at kamluks there's no cousins brothers mothers grandparents sons there's no
00:14:54.100 record of any children that are even supposed to be there so there's no advocate saying hey i want
00:14:59.440 my brother to be exhumed so we can return them to the home and possibly buried respectfully and all
00:15:06.440 that it's not there that's another missing part of this puzzle where did these mystifying 215
00:15:12.900 children come from and again that's why they just don't want these questions asked and we could all
00:15:18.600 be locked up if we're even talking about this realize this that's their answer residential
00:15:23.560 school denialism law we could all be thrown in the slammer denialism where this is a this is a
00:15:28.980 heinous crime to question, to ask any questions, to demand any evidence. Their only answer to this
00:15:35.880 is not to provide the extremely easy to provide evidence, is to propose jailing anyone who
00:15:42.280 questions it. Well, I hate to say it, but you know, well, that's the way I do things. Look,
00:15:47.080 if they thought there were bodies down there, they would dig up three and they'd have them
00:15:50.840 touring across the country in glass covered caskets and with the grievance industry showing
00:15:56.620 why they need even more money they would want to highlight that there really are victims down
00:16:01.660 there they know there aren't any as much as anybody else does we certainly certainly have
00:16:07.260 yet to present the evidence or even look yes so yeah in the end i mean this could go either way
00:16:14.380 but i think in the end uh this is going to do a lot more harm to the grievance industry uh than
00:16:20.540 than it ever did well.
00:16:21.540 They got the pound of flesh.
00:16:23.440 They got the blood lowered.
00:16:25.340 Yeah.
00:16:26.220 They massively have overplayed their hand here.
00:16:28.980 And they took advantage of everyone's good will
00:16:31.700 and innate sense of justice
00:16:33.820 to try and shame us for something
00:16:35.760 that just does not appear to have happened.
00:16:37.860 Just to your point there, Corey,
00:16:40.420 the fact that the federal government
00:16:43.740 wants to make it a criminal offense,
00:16:45.780 they are now in the business of controlling speech what sort of government has evolved in
00:16:55.480 this country because that would not have happened even under a previous liberal government there is
00:17:01.000 a rich end would have never done so there is a yeah there there is a motivation for control
00:17:06.200 and complete control uh no we've had restrictions on free speech for a long time and i'm old to the
00:17:12.860 point of saying if he think this and say it out loud we're going to send you to jail they might
00:17:18.380 have said we'll send you to the human rights commission and it'll cost you your retirements
00:17:22.160 plan but no we we have i mean this might be another step in it but we we have had
00:17:27.620 nothing you're thinking of whereas which would be comparable uh well i mean we've had like the
00:17:32.040 earth sundles of the world and these guys and they're generally considered cranks and whatever
00:17:36.000 but they did
00:17:37.940 time for saying things
00:17:39.760 that were not allowed to be said.
00:17:43.500 Whatever
00:17:44.060 their opinion,
00:17:45.580 we have criminalized speech before
00:17:48.020 beyond defamation
00:17:50.020 or advocating.
00:17:51.320 I'm always fine with defamation
00:17:53.480 or
00:17:54.640 advocating harm. Like, say,
00:17:57.820 I think someone should go out and kill Corey
00:17:59.800 or everyone should go out and kill
00:18:01.460 UK citizens. It's a better discussion.
00:18:04.000 Yeah, Zendel is odious and even
00:18:05.800 And, you know, with what I think, it shouldn't have been illegal for the nutcase to send the crap he said.
00:18:09.400 So we set the precedent there.
00:18:11.220 So we're living in that.
00:18:12.160 The other difference, too, though, was he was denying something that we had a whole whack of it, but it's supposed to really happen.
00:18:18.260 But if something is solid, you don't need to criminalize the questioning of it, even if they're right or wrong.
00:18:22.760 That's not the point.
00:18:23.500 The point is, if you criminalize it, you actually, in my view, legitimize questioning it.
00:18:28.300 Well, it makes the conspiracy theorists even more set off when, well, what are you trying to hide this?
00:18:32.400 My point is that we have set the precedent.
00:18:34.680 we did it on that and now we know there's enough legal precedent in canada there's enough case law
00:18:41.120 that this would totally stand up in court doesn't matter that it's bullshit it would stand up in
00:18:45.340 court because we have enough legal precedent here to say no it's fine to criminalize uh it would be
00:18:51.760 interesting if somebody got charged though and i mean i'm not a lawyer but typically these things
00:18:56.000 then it would go to discovery and uh because you're denying something well i mean i think
00:19:02.780 well who knows I mean if they're really out to get you
00:19:04.600 who knows how the courts will treat you but theoretically you should say
00:19:06.880 well then we need to discover evidence
00:19:09.000 that means dig in a darn hole and see
00:19:10.980 if I'm actually denying something that happened or not
00:19:13.080 I'm not sure because
00:19:14.220 the courts have upheld the laws
00:19:17.020 that you can't
00:19:18.980 say something that
00:19:20.780 could just cause
00:19:22.420 hurt feelings
00:19:24.020 hurt feelings that could hurt an identifiable
00:19:26.840 group etc and the truth around
00:19:28.740 if I said something nasty about
00:19:30.560 Somalis
00:19:31.980 true or not
00:19:35.240 in the aggregate, obviously not everyone
00:19:36.920 but if I said something nasty
00:19:38.220 about Somalis in the aggregate
00:19:40.500 even if true, that's an identifiable
00:19:43.140 group that I have
00:19:43.980 said some nasty things about
00:19:46.840 it doesn't matter if it's true or not
00:19:48.920 that gets upheld in Canadian law
00:19:51.320 so we can dig all the holes we want
00:19:53.340 discovery's not going to really matter in that sense
00:19:55.320 you're doing the time
00:19:56.160 Sonal, by the way, was
00:19:58.880 jailed in Germany, not in Canada
00:20:01.180 that we deported him.
00:20:03.320 We're talking about
00:20:04.440 the Canadian government response.
00:20:07.180 Well, they're even more zealous in
00:20:08.920 a long speech.
00:20:10.680 But yeah, that's a good correction there.
00:20:13.280 Thank you.
00:20:14.620 Alright, move on to something more
00:20:17.040 cheery.
00:20:18.840 Make China great again?
00:20:22.240 So,
00:20:22.820 Nigel, you wanted to talk about this one.
00:20:28.360 I mean,
00:20:29.260 the whole world has pivoted to China
00:20:31.020 to some extent ever since they joined the World Trade
00:20:33.160 Organization. It's
00:20:35.080 an indispensable economic partner
00:20:37.140 in the world now. Can't be ignored.
00:20:40.720 You know,
00:20:41.120 Trump has been rather bellicose
00:20:43.380 with Kennedy. Carney actually should
00:20:45.180 be thanking him. The way Trump talked
00:20:47.220 about annexing Canada, he would have never been
00:20:49.220 Prime Minister. Probably would have suffered
00:20:51.080 the same fate as J.B. Singh.
00:20:54.600 There's time.
00:20:56.100 Pardon? There's time.
00:20:57.380 Yeah. But
00:20:58.940 But he's in China, I think, right now, and the Chinese have been quite explicit that, you know, Carney should, Canada should be pivoting away from the States towards China, even if it were to happen to some extent.
00:21:12.240 I doubt it would ever be very explicit because Carney would get a midnight free helicopter ride for Delta Force pretty quickly, I think.
00:21:20.520 If the United States won't tolerate Maduro across the Gulf in Venezuela, there's a 0% chance they would tolerate it from Canada.
00:21:30.100 But Carney does have a very long history with China.
00:21:33.980 He's pretty China-friendly.
00:21:37.640 I don't know. Your take?
00:21:38.360 So my take on it is, actually, there's a lot of questions, and you've hit on a number of them there, but Trump is off to Greenland because he feels he needs it for national security.
00:21:53.780 No, he doesn't.
00:21:54.660 They already have all the military they want.
00:21:56.580 That's not why he wants it.
00:21:58.740 That's not why he actually wants it.
00:22:00.380 So, Derek, what nobody is talking about is that you've got a strait of water between Greenland and Canada.
00:22:07.340 to which america is already there in greenland and they could if they had greenland in possession
00:22:12.620 they could actually say well that's an internal waterway and now we can uh now we can control it
00:22:17.900 there's more than one reason but then i can do that on america's behalf that's not it but the
00:22:21.740 relevance of that to uh to china is if he establishes this sort of complete american
00:22:28.460 control over that northern uh space and then they've got this this this canadian thing that
00:22:36.060 happens with china you've got you've got your enemy right in you we're busily supporting china
00:22:41.500 bringing in the goods i mean i honestly don't think we're tell the force will be in get us
00:22:46.380 military i don't think they got us where they i don't think we'll see delta force coming calling
00:22:52.940 but uh you can see that if we get too close to charter the the acts aren't going to like it
00:22:58.380 and other people can speculate what they would do.
00:23:03.040 What is the American reaction going to be
00:23:07.320 to us Canadians replenishing the oil
00:23:11.780 that the Chinese have just lost for Venezuela?
00:23:14.320 They're not going to like it.
00:23:16.020 I don't know what they'll do, but that is a negative.
00:23:21.240 You know, Mr. Carney, all he wants is trade alternatives,
00:23:24.640 But what the Chinese want is to drive a very thick wedge between Canada and the United States.
00:23:32.220 That's not necessarily in our interest, because the Chinese are not the nice guys in the world.
00:23:39.440 We may not like being under American domination, but at least they speak English.
00:23:44.260 We do not want to be under Chinese domination.
00:23:46.860 and I fear that Mr. Carney and his enthusiasm to show economic progress
00:23:52.920 and have something to wave under the nose of the Canadian voting public
00:23:57.140 is going to give away too much too quick.
00:23:59.880 What exactly will the Americans do about it?
00:24:03.360 You'll know there's something going on if he comes back from China
00:24:07.940 and within a couple of weeks we've got authorization for a pipeline
00:24:11.920 and you've got to go now and do it right away.
00:24:13.880 That will tell you a lot about who agreed to what
00:24:18.900 and under what conditions.
00:24:20.580 It'd be fine for us, but not for anybody else.
00:24:23.700 I think that's one of the key things to look at.
00:24:26.640 This might be what, if a pipeline's going to get built
00:24:29.700 to the West Coast, it could stem largely from this meeting.
00:24:35.620 American analysts and commentators,
00:24:38.540 for the first time really ever, at least in a long time,
00:24:42.160 are talking very seriously about Canada
00:24:44.420 in the fallout of Venezuela.
00:24:47.080 A lot of them have started to connect to that.
00:24:48.440 Well, what does it really mean?
00:24:52.380 Trump's excuse for wanting Greenland
00:24:54.260 to station the military there
00:24:55.980 is about as truthful
00:24:58.100 as they wanted Maduro because of drugs.
00:25:00.980 It had nothing to do with drugs,
00:25:02.860 and the United States military
00:25:03.880 is already in Greenland.
00:25:06.340 These are the prima facie
00:25:09.040 public reasons given for these things.
00:25:11.840 But it's much more basic than that. But a lot of Americans have started to connect the dots that by getting Venezuelan heavy sour oil back in production, and that'll take some time, but getting it back in production, that is going to put massive pressure on Canada and specifically Alberta.
00:25:32.900 This is directly eating our lunch.
00:25:35.660 It's going to put downward pressure on prices that are already at a discount.
00:25:38.860 It puts the Americans in a more powerful position in demanding price points from us,
00:25:43.060 that our oil is going to go even cheaper than it is right now.
00:25:47.040 And so building a pipeline to the West Coast,
00:25:49.880 which should have been obvious for an extremely long time to everybody,
00:25:53.900 becomes more critical now than ever.
00:25:56.040 I guess my worry, Dave, is Trump somehow could become an obstacle
00:26:00.820 to building a pipeline to the west coast because that negates the advantage they get by taking
00:26:05.900 venezuela putting its oil back in play yeah well trump made it clear in uh water in no detroit
00:26:11.640 yesterday he was touring a ford plant and he was he was asked about the north american mexico free
00:26:17.960 trade deal and he says doesn't need it anymore he says he needs nothing from canada doesn't want
00:26:22.640 our cars doesn't want our lumber doesn't want our aluminum so he's put canada on notice that
00:26:28.060 We do need to go looking for new markets.
00:26:31.120 I don't think there's any doubt about that.
00:26:33.620 But I agree 100% with Nigel.
00:26:36.780 If Carney gets all buddy-buddy with Chairman Xi, it will upset Trump.
00:26:44.920 What he will do, I mean, who knows what that guy is thinking, right?
00:26:48.860 It's trying to predict him as a mugs game.
00:26:53.520 But he won't be happy.
00:26:55.300 No doubt about that.
00:26:56.280 Well, there's an English-language newspaper published in Beijing.
00:27:01.120 It's effectively an arm of the Chinese propaganda ministry, the China Daily.
00:27:07.720 But what they often do is, if there's something coming up,
00:27:11.400 they publish an editorial, and it's an informal way for the government
00:27:16.020 to say what they expect to get out of it.
00:27:18.940 So, you know, Mr. Carney's on his way in,
00:27:21.160 and what is the China Daily editorial talking about?
00:27:25.540 And it starts off with a polite recognition that Mr. Carney has already made some efforts to develop a good relationship with China.
00:27:35.620 It takes note of the, you know, the troubles that we've had and blames Canada for looking around for things to complain about.
00:27:47.140 And, you know, obviously, why would we complain about Chinese interference?
00:27:52.340 Well, get over it.
00:27:53.180 And so it's, and it has made it known in the past, and here I'm quoting, it wants to drop its U.S.-inspired tariffs on Chinese steel, aluminum, and electric vehicles before removing its retaliatory duties on Canadian agriculture and seafood products.
00:28:15.900 So you will sell canola to China.
00:28:17.980 Let us export our Chinese electric cars into your marketplace.
00:28:24.220 So this is all, you can get a very good idea about what the Chinese hope to get out of this.
00:28:29.340 And it all looks like a close trade relationship leading to political domination.
00:28:36.100 That is what Trump is going to reject.
00:28:39.340 But Canadians should also be looking at this arrangement over very carefully.
00:28:43.980 you may not like american domination you don't like chinese domination either
00:28:48.180 well i think there is look we're not a great power so we have to play the great power
00:28:53.900 game between them uh we're very obvious we're in the american sphere but we're hyper inside
00:28:59.260 the american sphere of influence um a lot of canadians might not like to hear it but guess
00:29:04.240 what culturally most canadians are americans they're political canadians but they're culturally
00:29:08.740 americans we watch american tv we listen to american music we eat american food we drive
00:29:13.140 american cars uh you can't distinguish someone from saskatchewan in minnesota really but other
00:29:20.020 than their license plate that's about that's about the only marker um but we have to play the game
00:29:25.860 a bit uh i mean the we we've got these tariffs against uh chinese electric vehicles to protect
00:29:33.300 our non-existent ev industry the problem is that the feds and ontario have sunk a gargantuan
00:29:40.740 amount of money into subsidizing these non-industries, and so to protect those nascent
00:29:47.040 industries, they put a protective tariff wall around it. Okay, fine, but then there's obvious
00:29:53.040 consequences to that, and that comes to seafood exports and canola. Luckily for most liberals,
00:29:59.740 West Coast fishermen vote conservative, and so do canola farmers. This is not affecting liberal
00:30:03.780 voters all that directly, at least on the negative side. Maybe it helps them on the positive side.
00:30:09.120 So I think he should do a deal there.
00:30:11.440 We should do a trade deal with China.
00:30:13.660 It's not a bad thing to do.
00:30:15.720 But we need to be leery of it, because China obviously has a very clear intention of trying to drive a wedge between us and the states.
00:30:22.540 Trump's rhetoric has facilitated that quite helpfully to the Chinese interests.
00:30:28.160 But as he's made clear, you can talk to whoever you want.
00:30:31.500 But if you actually get in bed with the Chinese, you're getting a free helicopter ride.
00:30:34.620 You know, Derek, one thing that nobody bothers to think about is that in three years less than, Donald Trump will no longer be president of the United States.
00:30:45.760 And you can almost guarantee that things will change at that point.
00:30:50.440 Because I cannot think of another U.S. politician who has the capacity to do what Trump does, the way he does it, and pull it off.
00:31:01.420 I don't think that's a given, Nigel.
00:31:02.680 You know what? He's mused about it. He's too old. He's in better shape than Biden. Or, you know, he could put mini-me in there. What's his name? Vance.
00:31:18.680 So, you know, maybe we shouldn't sign a five-year deal with China.
00:31:30.440 Maybe we should just make it for, like, about two and a half
00:31:33.260 and see how things go in 2020.
00:31:37.720 I don't know. This looks like a win-win to me.
00:31:39.360 We're not protecting any real industry with EEVs.
00:31:41.640 It's a fake industry that is just purely from subsidies anyway.
00:31:45.780 So, like, what are we protecting?
00:31:46.720 We're protecting nothing, and all we're doing is getting
00:31:48.880 tariffs put against our goods that are real
00:31:50.960 and hugely important to our economy.
00:31:52.840 This is what's talked about kind of from the start, though.
00:31:54.580 If we see dirt actually start to move between
00:31:56.840 here and BC to get a pipe, even if it's going...
00:31:58.800 There's heavy oil refiners in India that would be
00:32:00.760 thrilled to get our product.
00:32:03.600 But Mark Carney also yesterday
00:32:04.780 went out and met with the First Nations lobby
00:32:06.780 group and said, don't worry, we won't do it without
00:32:08.820 your permission. So that seems to be dead in the water
00:32:10.920 either. Mr. Dithers II,
00:32:13.420 that's another thing with Carney.
00:32:14.500 He talks a great game, but he's never committed to a damn
00:32:16.720 thing in a whole year in office yet. He just talks and talks and talks and talks. So we'll
00:32:20.900 see. We'll see what his attitude is when he comes back, but something's got to happen
00:32:25.320 eventually. Okay. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Or not. Well, speaking of shifting allegiances, let's
00:32:34.280 talk about the Alberta independence referendum, uh, sort of kicking off here. Um, so yeah,
00:32:42.680 Corey, we, you know, had Fabio there do his petition, and then they get the signatures.
00:32:49.160 You know, good.
00:32:49.580 That's a big task.
00:32:51.200 Good to accomplish.
00:32:51.800 So credit where it's due.
00:32:55.320 But credit where it's also due, where they handed this thing in and realized, oh, my God, this will trigger an independence referendum.
00:33:01.760 What do you mean?
00:33:03.200 A citizens-initiated referendum will actually generate a referendum.
00:33:06.460 So they essentially kiboshed their own thing after handing it, and all they managed to do was waste their own time and effort.
00:33:12.000 But now we've got, now it's the opportunity of the pro-independence side, organized by the Alberta Prosperity Project here.
00:33:19.520 And they just kind of kicked off the sign now.
00:33:22.280 Yeah, so I mean, to give a little more background, it looks like there was a bit of a battle between the government and the electoral officer, too.
00:33:27.220 I don't think the electoral officer was really keen on the idea of an independence referendum.
00:33:30.800 He used the past legislation, tossed it to a judge.
00:33:34.180 Right when the judge ruled, saying they couldn't hold such a referendum, they put out Bill 14, said, okay, fine, we're changing the legislation.
00:33:41.300 and the electoral officer actually threw up his hands.
00:33:43.940 I was talking to Mitch Sylvester.
00:33:45.040 It really caught them by surprise.
00:33:47.360 He said, fine, here it goes.
00:33:48.880 It's approved.
00:33:49.900 January 2nd, you can start getting your stuff together.
00:33:53.000 So they're scrambling like, holy cow,
00:33:54.540 we were thinking it's going to be another month
00:33:56.380 or everything else is so small.
00:33:58.180 So this is on the go.
00:33:59.800 So they got until what?
00:34:01.040 May 2nd?
00:34:01.680 May 6th, I believe.
00:34:03.020 May 6th.
00:34:03.440 So now the-
00:34:05.060 How many signatures?
00:34:06.780 177,000.
00:34:08.080 Realistically, you know some are going to be declined.
00:34:09.900 they have to get about over 200,000 if
00:34:11.940 it's going to be clearing the hurdles.
00:34:14.080 And their goal, I think, is to beat
00:34:15.820 Fabio and get maybe over 500,000.
00:34:17.800 We'll see. They've got four months to work on it.
00:34:20.020 But at least now that they've got
00:34:21.700 something to work on, they've got
00:34:23.480 their meetings, they've been holding them for months and
00:34:25.780 months and months, but now they're holding them.
00:34:27.800 And I was a guest speaker at one of them on
00:34:29.740 the weekend in Calgary. And
00:34:31.700 people probably saw those pictures on social media.
00:34:33.580 People, I've never seen anything like it. I mean, it was
00:34:35.500 full an hour before we were set to start speaking.
00:34:37.520 Where was it? He's a punny little place.
00:34:38.920 Queensland community center down in South Calgary.
00:34:42.180 So the hall was full almost an hour before we started speaking.
00:34:45.220 There was a guy, fire code.
00:34:46.440 We couldn't lay anybody else in.
00:34:47.480 So everybody else was going just to at least sign the petition.
00:34:50.900 And when we finished two hours later and I went outside, people were still
00:34:54.900 sneaking for blocks in the night.
00:34:57.080 And those are the pictures you're seeing in the snow and that's happening everywhere.
00:35:00.880 It's happening in smaller towns, Bicycle, Didsbury, everywhere these guys hold a
00:35:05.820 meeting. People are coming out and just overwhelming it. The eagerness to sign this
00:35:10.780 petition. I mean, this is the honeymoon phase. It's the first week, you know, it'll probably
00:35:15.220 cool down a bit, but there's really something unusual taking place. It caught them off guard,
00:35:21.620 caught me off guard. The fruits, I think, of all their work for months and months has finally
00:35:26.640 gotten there. They got something tangible to work on and the people are coming out. And the other
00:35:31.240 that's interesting was not only did thousands come out to sign the petition but of them hundreds
00:35:37.800 signed up to be volunteers for the campaign and uh we're in for a hell of a year that's all they
00:35:43.320 could say it's going to be something else uh yeah it's um and then then we'll have an actual
00:35:50.120 campaign i don't know when the vote will be held i mean uh governments like to hold them in the fall
00:35:55.720 you know americans have it in early november but their weather is a bit more forgiving for it so
00:35:59.320 our elections tend to be i i hate these things these things are always on like my birthday
00:36:03.400 it's like mid-october they pick and like so every second birthday i have all my political friends
00:36:10.160 can't uh can't be with me because it's a freaking election um uh so you know i'd say it's a good
00:36:15.660 bet we'd be looking at an october or november the fullest the good money is on this yeah yeah it's
00:36:20.900 uh i've been talking to some american contacts of mine and they're just shocked they're shocked
00:36:26.740 now they're on all under the delusion that like oh yeah this is albertans all clamoring to be the
00:36:30.900 51st state sorry guys it's not uh there's a few but it's it that's a pretty small fraction of
00:36:38.620 things of course if alberta did achieve independence would that be an option on the
00:36:42.800 menu to consider oh well yeah so later yeah yeah get back to me we got bigger things to do right
00:36:49.280 now um but it's uh it's happening almost certainly we're gonna have a vote on independence
00:36:56.680 in Alberta. The polls do not favor the yes side right now. If I was going to bet right now,
00:37:01.960 we'd probably get 40%, you know, after campaign, but campaigns matter. I mean,
00:37:09.000 you know, there's a lot of time to move that needle between now and October.
00:37:12.200 When the Quebec government called the referendum that it held in 1995,
00:37:15.880 independent support there was pretty comparable to where it is right here. Right now, it was
00:37:20.440 kind of mid thirties, you know, a significant minority, but not there yet. And they got all
00:37:24.680 the way up to 49.9 and you know if you ask the guys who were on the s side they think pretty
00:37:31.400 strongly the feds cheated and that we wouldn't put that past them and it wouldn't take a lot
00:37:35.080 of cheating to make the difference in that one uh campaigns matter i i think it's
00:37:41.400 who's going to lead who's going to lead the campaign for the independence party
00:37:44.920 right that's part of your side side because there's like four yeah like who's going to be
00:37:50.120 the chief spokesman for the for the independence group that's the one thing you're missing right
00:37:54.280 now yeah uh and it's not going to be jeff wrath or if it is you're going to fail uh you know they
00:38:00.840 they need to come up as does the other side who's going to be captain canada jason kenny wants a job
00:38:08.040 and daniel smith says she will not have the job she will sit so you talked about those two polls
00:38:14.040 derrick uh widely ranging numbers one had support as low as 17 which i didn't agree with the other
00:38:22.120 The other one was around 35%, which I think is probably more closer to the truth, but yeah, it's going to be a fun campaign.
00:38:28.600 Yeah, there is no Lucien Bouchard right now or personable person.
00:38:32.080 That is a missing factor, but there are some months.
00:38:34.240 I think the movement can get along until the end of this petitioning portion without having a distinguished individual sort of speaking for them, but there will need to be a focal point.
00:38:45.760 I really don't have a name jumping in mind.
00:38:48.360 No, well, and like in the Quebec case, you had the PQ and you had the PQ providing a pool of politicians who are experienced in this kind of thing.
00:38:58.900 This is a naturally political position, somewhat political experience.
00:39:03.220 The federal conservative, how do you be a member of the federal conservative party of Canada and then also lead an independence referendum?
00:39:10.280 But that's pretty hard to swear.
00:39:11.720 The United Conservative Party, I mean, it's a little less hard, but it's not explicitly an independence party.
00:39:17.500 even if a clear majority of its members support independence and its voters support independence.
00:39:22.100 So we lack these natural pools from which a natural leader can emerge,
00:39:27.060 the way you had with René Levesque or Perizot in the PQ, with Lucienne Bouchard in the BQ.
00:39:33.860 I don't know. Where does this leader come from?
00:39:38.720 Yes, but I don't have an answer.
00:39:40.280 That is the question of the moment.
00:39:43.400 If I had to go out on a limb, I wouldn't name any names,
00:39:46.460 But I would be looking for among people who have not had anything public to say yet, but who have a lot of money and an interest in the outcome.
00:39:56.100 And they will arrive and they will be the promised leader for a period of the year, you know, when it matters.
00:40:05.560 But again, it could be anybody we've heard of.
00:40:07.560 It could be very fractious, right?
00:40:08.920 Because you could have a lot of the independent supporters say, well, I don't really like that person.
00:40:12.680 There's no structure.
00:40:13.380 Are you going to have a leadership?
00:40:15.080 need to go leadership for a strong leadership convention sure it's all uncharted ground we've
00:40:21.000 never had a referendum in alberta before either so you know it's yeah this could blow up disastrously
00:40:26.840 or somebody might arise that we never anticipated and this could snowball is that larry heather oh
00:40:33.560 that is that's what we're talking about is somebody coming out of nowhere and reaping
00:40:39.720 a harvest to walk all the other people
00:40:41.640 He's not the leader we deserve, but he's the
00:40:43.720 hero we need
00:40:44.320 Harry Leather, that was still the best Twitter account
00:40:47.820 In his shift life, that was a
00:40:49.740 great parody account
00:40:51.380 I think that's the big issue
00:40:53.780 Jeff Rath
00:40:55.860 seems more intent on fighting with other
00:40:57.760 people that he agrees with on 99.9%
00:41:00.440 of issues
00:41:01.080 He makes me look
00:41:03.600 agreeable for crying out loud
00:41:04.660 He really does, you know, you play a crankball
00:41:07.680 on TV in real life, you're actually
00:41:09.220 fairly agreeable.
00:41:11.020 Their cuss is...
00:41:12.640 Yeah, you do have a stick as...
00:41:14.820 We all play assholes on T.
00:41:17.400 Oh, like, Corey.
00:41:18.960 Nigel's actually a nice guy. But,
00:41:20.700 you know, the independence
00:41:22.920 move has always been notoriously
00:41:25.300 fractious. That's why there's, like, four
00:41:26.900 independence parties. They're independence
00:41:29.360 minded in more than
00:41:31.040 one sense.
00:41:33.920 But, I mean, we've
00:41:35.160 just kind of got...
00:41:37.160 The cranks will never take it back
00:41:39.200 seat but like they they really you could you can tell for who this is genuinely about the movement
00:41:45.360 or and and then for those who it's like this is an opportunity to finally be listened to for once
00:41:50.560 in your life and uh there's a lot of ego in there um uh you know i'll i'll i'd wrap with this uh
00:41:58.560 jason kenney i think uh monday you know was leading him like uh here's two guys who disagree
00:42:04.480 on you know the status of first nations treaties after independence these guys are internally
00:42:08.560 incoherent a bunch of idiots and yeah to which i responded it's like yes there is internal
00:42:16.200 disagreement on issues as there has been in every single political coalition that has ever existed
00:42:20.460 in the history of the world your side the federalist side you share a side with thomas
00:42:26.000 lukasik you share a side with rachel notley with justin trudeau nenshi you tell me you guys don't
00:42:34.100 have internal contradictions uh you know so but for some reason that gets kind of paved over it's
00:42:40.900 it's it's that scene is more natural of of course the federalists disagree about everything and
00:42:45.380 that's normal but it's uh the you know the nationalists uh if they disagree on some vague
00:42:51.600 point of case law about the status of native treaties post-independence oh then everything's
00:42:57.320 chaos yeah you know if the people who want the united canada
00:43:01.880 want to start playing the game smartly they should get people like senator
00:43:07.940 pulls paula simons to just back off a little bit what she said what did you
00:43:17.040 have here dave in a few breaths she painted the whole alberta independence
00:43:22.100 movies there's xenophobic racist misogynist anti-woman transphobic and homophobic she
00:43:29.460 built the whole bingo sounds like cory didn't you know i mean that's just a list of my friends
00:43:33.780 i can't even pronounce this this is the you you go around criticizing alberta and alberta people
00:43:42.180 there's all of those things the reaction is not going to be oh shucks i guess you're right
00:43:46.740 it's going to be who the hell are you well she's mimicking uh trudeau here says you know
00:43:50.900 they're racists they're sexists they're uh they deny the science so you're not winning people
00:43:56.020 over you're not absolutely so also she's living in a world where these words used to have power
00:44:03.140 these words have lost their power now you can call me any ism or is in the world
00:44:07.860 i don't even deny it anymore because to deny it is to still give it power you just say i don't care
00:44:13.940 and we don't care people are sick of this that's absolutely right yeah okay that was
00:44:20.500 a fun one to wrap on i guess uh all right uh now that you've read off uh cory's resume
00:44:27.780 are you ruling yourself out oh absolutely not a chance
00:44:32.740 not where i'm looking no he's this bengali character in the in the background guy
00:44:37.380 showing the controlling the strings okay uh let's give our first parting shot to dave since
00:44:42.820 they've actually never really had a parting shot because that's kind of a newer feature
00:44:45.860 on the plane plane it is uh my parting shot will be on ambassador uh sears he was the final
00:44:53.140 ambassador canada had to afghanistan and he cowardly fled uh cabul in a half empty plane
00:45:01.620 uh leaving hundreds and hundreds of canadians behind uh he has finally admitted after several
00:45:07.060 years that it wasn't his best moment it's uh our own captain of the cost of concordia exactly
00:45:13.140 all right quite real quick with that uh for people who know cartoons scott adams who used
00:45:18.380 to do dilbert passed away from prostate cancer a couple of days ago but who i'm shooting at
00:45:23.140 wasn't him those cartoon was great uh was the associated press who put out the notice of it
00:45:28.640 said scott adams of dilbert died by the way right in the headline he was cancelled and shut down
00:45:34.900 because he'd said racist things on x you couldn't even just announce the man passed without carrying
00:45:40.400 on posthumously your cancel culture because he said something uh off color on x oh i thought
00:45:46.400 they meant it as a compliment yeah well there you go so maybe it is it's certainly powerless against
00:45:50.480 mr adams now anyways uh either way to the person who wrote the headline go to hell yeah so dave i
00:45:58.560 was actually uh going to comment on that story you had about 105 000 canadians went out of the
00:46:06.240 the country you receive medical treatment that's a lot of money just get in wherever they went
00:46:13.120 there's a lot of money and then they're paying for treatment we so i i love ralph klein but ralph
00:46:20.340 klein so blew it 25 years ago with bill 11 instead of banning private medicine in alberta they should
00:46:27.880 have said come to alberta build your hospital here we'll give you a business and people instead of
00:46:34.440 going to jordan or wherever or any of the other popular medical tourism sites we'd be coming to
00:46:41.240 alberta and albertans would be getting the benefit of it this whole thing that you know if you listen
00:46:46.200 to the radio right now the doctors and the nurses are panning the government all the time it's pure
00:46:51.240 rubbish but this should never have happened we should have built hospitals and told the world
00:46:56.200 come to us and charge the outsiders and make it cheaper for albertans ironically alberta leads
00:47:01.560 the country in the number of patients leaving
00:47:03.520 for the US. There you go.
00:47:06.580 Alright, well,
00:47:07.540 because we're out of time, and because I actually didn't
00:47:09.560 do my homework and actually get a parting
00:47:11.480 shot, we're going to
00:47:13.620 put a pen in it there. Right.
00:47:15.400 Dave, Nigel, Corey,
00:47:17.380 thank you very much, and John, run
00:47:19.420 in production, thank you. Thank all of you for
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00:48:01.120 You