Kelly Malmberg on Ottawa's pressures on agricultural producers
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Summary
In this episode, we talk about the proposed 30% reduction in the use of certain types of fertilizers, the carbon tax, and the impact it could have on crop production. We also talk about some of the challenges farmers are facing and how they are dealing with them.
Transcript
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A lot of things that have been making the news lately are proposed at least reductions in certain
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types of fertilizers and things that agricultural producers can use. And it's really got a lot of
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people very concerned. Maybe if you could just kind of explain how a 30% reduction would impact
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farm production right now. Well, yeah, that's quite a crazy proposal. 30% reduction in fertilizer,
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you know, it's hard to put a number on that because it depends on what you grow. But, you know,
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over the, if they do go with this, you know, you're probably going to see 15 to 20% reduction on your
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cereal crops, your oil seeds. We have a lot of crops that we do grow that fix their own nitrogen,
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like all our pulse crops, lentils, pea crops. But I would say you're going to see a reduction for
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sure, Corey. Yeah. And with that high cost of living, I mean, in general, we're looking, you
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know, especially for things that are essential for us. I mean, if crops come down, prices are
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going to go up and these are our food items. So, I mean, it's going to damage every consumer,
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not just the producers. Yeah. You know, I guess that's one silver lining is, you know,
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our grain prices are probably going to go up. They're up pretty high right now. But as always,
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you know, with Canada, with this carbon tax, you know, we're just keep getting beaten down. And you
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look at our neighbors to the South, to business as usual in the States, they're not doing a 30%
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reduction on their fertilizers. So we're at the disadvantage again on the Americans.
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Well, and the carbon tax is impacting agricultural producers as well. And that's something that
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frustrates as well. Of course, I was watching that the other day when the carbon tax rebates were coming
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to people and a lot of liberal supporters, see, look, it all comes back to you. It all comes back.
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It doesn't cost anybody anything. You know, they don't realize that this impacts production and
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consumer products, and they are going to pay a higher price for things because of that tax,
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even if it's not direct. Yeah, for sure. Like, well, fertilizers up, heating, like anything heating
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our shop's fuel. You know, if we have to dry grain this year, which it could happen, we have,
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you know, since I talked to you last, we've had some pretty good rains. These crops look really good.
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And so we're looking at a late harvest and, you know, there's going to be a lot of natural gas
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used to try to get these, try to get these crops dried down so that they can be stored properly.
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So yeah, operating costs are way up for sure because of the carbon tax.
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Yeah. And those, those green dryers, I mean, they're almost, well, they look almost like a
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giant version of a clothing dryer, if I recall, and they're circular, but they burn a heck of a lot
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of natural gas. So the carbon tax is going to have a very direct impact on the cost of using those
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sorts of tools. Yeah, you bet. You know, we've been lucky the last few years, we've had some
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pretty good harvests and kind of an open harvest. We were done before things got too ugly, but you
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know, I've got some crops that are at least a month away for, my canola is just coming out of flower.
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And so things are looking, looks like it might be a long harvest this year and we're going to be
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running those grain dryers for sure. Well, hopefully not, but it's looking that way.
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Yeah. So, I mean, and as you pointed out, there's other ways with nitrogen replacement,
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different type of crops, you can rotate things such as that. And I mean, you know, it reminds
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me of the energy sector too. Like people don't get credit for the activities they've already been
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doing to reduce emissions. Even if some of the reasons, you know, you wanted to reduce the
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nitrogen, well, it's expensive. So if you can run a field peas for a year and help replenish the soil,
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you'll do that. I mean, you've already been reducing some of the uses for these things just in a
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cost effective manner, but you don't get any credit for that. No, that's right. You know,
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we, like our farmers, we're not farming like the eighties anymore. We don't work our land up where,
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you know, it's no till farming. We're doing precision farming. So, uh, and variable rate
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technology. So when these, you know, these are high tech outfits and our farmers, you know,
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these guys are, you know, got degrees call, you know, and, um, you know, they've got a lot of
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schooling behind them and they're putting this fertilizer where it needs to be. Soil tests are
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done every spring. Now, you know, we're not just dumping fertilizer out there to, and hoping that
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we're going to grow a bigger crop. We can't afford it. Fertilizer this spring was about, uh, double
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what it was before. So when we can go to stuff like variable rate technology, we can reduce the
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amount of fertilizer we're putting where it's not needed. Like if you look at the Netherlands right now,
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you know, we're trying to be like the Netherlands, they farm in a bathtub. They're below sea level
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and they're about 16 times smaller than the province of Alberta. So it's a pretty intensive
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agricultural area. And, um, you know, we're being compared to that and, you know, we, we were a mile
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above sea level in Alberta. Um, and especially, especially in areas like Vulcan County and in
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Southern Alberta, um, you know, that leaching of, uh, these nutrients into our watersheds is,
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it's very low. We, you know, we've got some good farmers out there. So I'm really scratching my
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head as to why, you know, this is just a feel good program for Trudeau. And it really makes no
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sense at this time. You know, we are evolving. We're trying new technology, but we have 8 billion
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people to feed and people want big crops and to grow big crops. You know, we got to put the groceries
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to it. And so we're putting the fertilizer down and we're putting it where it's needed until we can do
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something different. I, this is just a really bad timing on this proposal.
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Well, that's it. And, uh, you know, I wrote a piece on this a while back. I did some research
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and, you know, the human population in the last hundred years has gone up fivefold, but
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crop yields per acre in modern farms has also gone up fivefold. But I mean, things such as modern
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effective fertilizer practices, pesticides, and some other things are the reason you can get so much
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per acre. And, and, uh, as you mentioned, there's not an alternative. It's, it's similar to kind of
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my earlier rant too about vehicles. Okay. You want to get all the, the gas vehicles off the road. Fair
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enough, but you got to give us something else to get into. And it's not there yet. And just banning
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certain types of fertilizer use, if you don't have an alternative, it could be catastrophic. I mean,
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they got to come up with the alternate first. Yeah. You know, it was a good, I was listening to,
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um, there's that egg radio. It's on Sirius XM, um, channel 147 and, uh, the egg PhD guy,
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he's always on about one o'clock in the afternoons. And somebody asked him what he thought of Canada.
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He's an American, but he, somebody asked him a question. What's his thoughts on this reduction?
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And he made a good point. He said that, uh, you know, farming, I don't think people realize that
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farming and forestry, we're a huge carbon. We, we sequester a lot of carbon. So a lot of carbon
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it's taken in by the plant. So if you reduce the amount of fertilizer, you're growing less plant,
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you're actually taken, you have less plant to take in that excessive carbon, which, you know,
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was a really good point. So, you know, we grow more crop, we're taking more carbon in as well.
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And I don't think people realize that, uh, farmers are one of the biggest, um, the industry really
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takes in a lot of that excessive carbon. And by cutting back, we're going to have less crop to take
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that in. I don't know if that's, you know, it was just an interesting point I heard yesterday. So.
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Yeah, it is. And I mean, everything's kind of integrated. The other thing is too, if, uh,
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more pressure is put on, I mean, we've got land that hasn't been developed agriculturally and not
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just in Canada, but other parts of the world. And if, if, uh, a living can't be made or if the
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prices are getting too high for those commodities, because of some of these limitations, the incentive
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is there now to expand and cultivate more land than to try and keep up. And we've got, uh, you know,
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natural areas that could be threatened through this too. Like this can have the opposite effect
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and actually make things worse for the environment, but they just don't seem to understand that.
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Well, that's a good point, Corey. You know, we've got a lot of grassland,
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you know, out east in the eastern part of the Vulcan County, a lot of native grass that was broke back
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in the thirties. Um, you know, a lot of homesteaders came up and we've got places that should never be
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broken again, but, um, it's like the, the organic farming argument, you know, if get rid of fertilizer,
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or herbicides, fertilizers, um, insecticides, we'll, we can never at this time, unless we develop
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our technology better, we couldn't feed the world if we didn't have these products and we would be
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ripping up more land than we should all of Eastern Alberta along the Saskatchewan border would, you
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know, we'd have to break more land up and it'd be catastrophic. You know, those guys tried it.
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They lasted about 10 years and, uh, it went back to grass in a hurry because just not sustainable.
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Yeah. There's a lot of sensitive, uh, wildlife populations out there, sage grouse, burrowing
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owls, uh, antelope. I mean, they, they only have so much land left really that's unbroken that they
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rely on out there. And, and, uh, I mean, if the government bans us from, I guess, producing on
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that land, well, it'll save those critters, but then we still end up with a food shortage. It just
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seems to be such an inane policy they're pushing towards right now.
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Yeah. Um, you know, we're really going to have, I, you know, fingers crossed, I hope the
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hail cloud stays away, but excuse me, but, uh, you know, we're going to make up for last
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year. You know, I, I'm looking at my wheat, uh, this morning, I got a really nice crop
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coming and those rains, um, there was a lot of areas that were pretty dry and this really
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helps. So, you know, we're going to pick up the slack for the world on, um, on this grain
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shortage. So what a time, eh? You imagine if we had to cut 30% fertilizer, um,
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you know, you're going to see some big crop export this year out of Canada, thanks to
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how we farm and, um, thanks to the weather. But, uh, yeah, I think Canada is really going
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to help out the world this year, especially with what's going on in the Ukraine. So, um,
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yeah, things look good. I just hope, you know, these initiatives like this are really going
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Yeah. Well, and right now, I mean, it's still proposed, but I mean, they're, they're
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pretty solid about what they want to do, but they haven't said how, or, or legislated anything
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formally yet. So is there any movement on the part of, uh, agricultural producers to
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organize, push back, lobby against this idea or?
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Well, they've, you know, I guess there's still a discussion period. And like you mentioned,
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mentioned, you know, we're, we're obviously looking at worst case scenario and, you know,
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a lot could change. Um, a lot of the municipalities have started writing letters, um, at the agricultural
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service boards to, uh, the minister of agriculture in Ottawa, but, you know, I've been, I've been
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an egg fieldman here for Vulcan County for 25 years. Letters don't seem to go very far anymore.
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They just kind of get shuffled in the filing cabinet. Um, you know, I think when the date
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gets closer and we know what's going to happen, uh, I think you'll see guys wake up a little
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bit. Um, I think it's in its infancy right now. So we're just kind of waiting to see
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what comes out. I don't know how they, if they do go forward with this and do have a
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concrete number to cut, you know, egg Canada has a skeleton of a staff, um, since the Harper
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days, you know, they've cut Alberta egg Canada staff by a lot. I don't know if they're going
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to have a fertilizer police going out if they're going to audit our annual purchase of a fertilizer.
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But, um, yeah, I think right now I wouldn't get too worked up. I think, um, I think what's
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going on in the Netherlands is maybe woke the world up a little bit. Um, so, you know,
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but we're, you know, people are watching and I guess we'll just see what unfolds in the next
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Yeah. And I mean, we just, we want to keep it in the scroll at least and discuss it.
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Or of course, if we don't, then they'll definitely impose something ridiculous, unfortunately.
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And, and, uh, you know, we have to, this slides under the radar, agricultural producers are
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a minority among Canadians. I mean, there's only so many people now who do it. There's,
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you know, a small family can, can manage a much larger area than it used to be, you know,
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a hundred years ago, but it also means it's a limited voice when, when there's pressures
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coming on. Uh, something interesting, uh, uh, another fellow who's up in Northern Saskatchewan
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that I know, and he's a agricultural producer, but he's saying, you know, he's tired. He's
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kind of had enough. He was thinking of some more expansion in capital investment next year,
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but now he's thinking, uh, maybe I'm just going to pull up and just retire and sell off
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and get out. And, uh, you know, these pressures have an impact even when it's a threatened policy
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change, uh, you know, before it even comes in. I mean, there just needs to be a little
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more respect shown to the people feeding us right now.
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Yeah. Well, a good example, Corey, um, I, I farmed between Blackie Harrington country and,
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uh, what a hundred year generation farm just sold a thousand acres.
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Um, and it got into a bidding war, you know, we're in pretty good farmland country and it
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went for average just under 7,000 bucks an acre for dry land crop. And it went to the
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Hutterites. So that's where it's going big farms and, uh, the colonies, you just kind
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of, you know, and I don't blame these guys. Same thing as your friend there. Um, that's
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a lot of money for, you know, thousand acres, 7 million bucks. I'm sure Trudeau and his
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capital gains will take half of it, but, uh, you know, guys are getting bigger. The
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smaller guys are getting out, you know, between me and my brother, we have a thousand acres
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and, uh, you know, by the time I'm done and he's done, it'll, it'll, we'll probably be
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done as well. So that's just the way things are going.
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Yeah. Well, it's unfortunate, but we'll keep pushing. I mean, you know, it's, it's just
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so important to all of us. I mean, not just in the, in the sad aspect of a, of a multi-generational
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kind of, you know, industry and lifestyle kind of falling by the wayside. Some of that's
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just changing times as well, but all the same, uh, some of it is, it's just bad government
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policy. That's just not a good enough excuse to make such changes like that. So, well, hey,
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it's never hopeless. We got to just keep pushing and defending and, uh, maybe we'll get a good
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outcome eventually. Well, you know, and that's the big thing is I get like, you've seen me
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on Twitter. I get so mad, but you know, 90%, like you, I guess you said earlier, 80% of
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Canada is two generations off the farm. Nobody, and there's people that are savvy and follow
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what's going on in the world, but nobody knows how farms hardly work anymore, you know, but
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they're quick to judge. I got into it last week and some of the, some of the, I just, I
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don't know why, you know, you've seen me on there. I just, I need to get off Twitter, but,
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uh, man, people know nothing about, some of these people know nothing about agriculture
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and they're a couple of generations off the farm, but they are very good armchair quarterback
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farmers and, uh, it's tough. They need to get out on the farm and come see how things work,
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see what's, uh, what we're doing. Most farmers are, would love to show the urban world,
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especially the left urban world. Um, how things, how things are done grassroots. We're losing
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grassroots in this country, in the world, but especially Canada right now. Yeah. Well,
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and unfortunately a lot of those people and those, uh, you know, willfully ignorant ones
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will suddenly realize it when their grocery bills go through the roof, but by then the damage is
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already done and it'd be better to prevent it. But I mean, Hey, Twitter, it's an entertainment area.
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You know, you just got to learn how to stir them up and then back off. And, uh, as per my coffee
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cup, enjoy the liberal tears. If you can stir them up on there, use it as a vent. But I know it's a,
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it can be hard on us to get on there and get too wound up sometimes.
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Well, Lee, you're a lot smarter at it than me. I go a little too far and then I get up at two in
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the morning and delete everything I put on there.
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Well, I, I have my moments as well. All right. Well, thanks for coming on to talk to me today,
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Kelly. It's always good to have you on and it's good to hear, you know, that there's a good season,
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at least building up and let's hope the weather maintains. And, you know, as you said, it's good
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for the whole world right now. We're in some pretty crazy times and getting a lot of food out there
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into the world market is going to be good for a lot of people. Yeah, you bet. No, I like, I,
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I just can't believe how things, how much better things got here this summer. There was no wind,
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as you probably noticed, just the nice summer caught some nice rains and, uh, it's going to be some
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pretty big cereal crops. We crops are going to be big. Barley is going to be big. Um, lots decent
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hay. I don't think it was bumper crop hay, but, uh, we are really going to pick up our world grain
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ending stocks out of Canada. Anyways, things look pretty good. If we have a good harvest.
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Right on. Well, we'll, uh, check in with you again down the road. And hopefully at that point,
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you're talking about how great the harvest was. Okay. Sounds good. Corey. Take care.