Western Standard - August 04, 2022


Kelly Malmberg on Ottawa's pressures on agricultural producers

Topics
fertilizer reduction impacts farming and carbon sequestration agricultural pressures and organization
Mentioned
Corey Trudeau Blackie Harrington Kelly
Seven-year-old boy survives savage Alberta cougar attack. Triggered： Canada needs to bring Arctic oil and gas into production.

Episode Stats


Length

16 minutes

Words per minute

211.51

Word count

3,397

Sentence count

207

Harmful content

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we talk about the proposed 30% reduction in the use of certain types of fertilizers, the carbon tax, and the impact it could have on crop production. We also talk about some of the challenges farmers are facing and how they are dealing with them.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 A lot of things that have been making the news lately are proposed at least reductions in certain
00:00:06.600 types of fertilizers and things that agricultural producers can use. And it's really got a lot of
00:00:11.700 people very concerned. Maybe if you could just kind of explain how a 30% reduction would impact
00:00:16.760 farm production right now. Well, yeah, that's quite a crazy proposal. 30% reduction in fertilizer,
00:00:25.840 you know, it's hard to put a number on that because it depends on what you grow. But, you know,
00:00:31.100 over the, if they do go with this, you know, you're probably going to see 15 to 20% reduction on your
00:00:36.040 cereal crops, your oil seeds. We have a lot of crops that we do grow that fix their own nitrogen,
00:00:43.540 like all our pulse crops, lentils, pea crops. But I would say you're going to see a reduction for
00:00:49.620 sure, Corey. Yeah. And with that high cost of living, I mean, in general, we're looking, you
00:00:54.660 know, especially for things that are essential for us. I mean, if crops come down, prices are
00:00:58.980 going to go up and these are our food items. So, I mean, it's going to damage every consumer,
00:01:04.320 not just the producers. Yeah. You know, I guess that's one silver lining is, you know,
00:01:10.280 our grain prices are probably going to go up. They're up pretty high right now. But as always,
00:01:16.140 you know, with Canada, with this carbon tax, you know, we're just keep getting beaten down. And you
00:01:20.520 look at our neighbors to the South, to business as usual in the States, they're not doing a 30%
00:01:25.340 reduction on their fertilizers. So we're at the disadvantage again on the Americans.
00:01:30.140 Well, and the carbon tax is impacting agricultural producers as well. And that's something that
00:01:35.160 frustrates as well. Of course, I was watching that the other day when the carbon tax rebates were coming
00:01:40.500 to people and a lot of liberal supporters, see, look, it all comes back to you. It all comes back.
00:01:44.500 It doesn't cost anybody anything. You know, they don't realize that this impacts production and
00:01:50.180 consumer products, and they are going to pay a higher price for things because of that tax,
00:01:53.780 even if it's not direct. Yeah, for sure. Like, well, fertilizers up, heating, like anything heating
00:02:00.280 our shop's fuel. You know, if we have to dry grain this year, which it could happen, we have,
00:02:08.180 you know, since I talked to you last, we've had some pretty good rains. These crops look really good.
00:02:12.220 And so we're looking at a late harvest and, you know, there's going to be a lot of natural gas
00:02:16.920 used to try to get these, try to get these crops dried down so that they can be stored properly.
00:02:21.500 So yeah, operating costs are way up for sure because of the carbon tax.
00:02:26.820 Yeah. And those, those green dryers, I mean, they're almost, well, they look almost like a
00:02:29.960 giant version of a clothing dryer, if I recall, and they're circular, but they burn a heck of a lot
00:02:33.300 of natural gas. So the carbon tax is going to have a very direct impact on the cost of using those
00:02:39.180 sorts of tools. Yeah, you bet. You know, we've been lucky the last few years, we've had some
00:02:44.000 pretty good harvests and kind of an open harvest. We were done before things got too ugly, but you
00:02:50.220 know, I've got some crops that are at least a month away for, my canola is just coming out of flower.
00:02:55.880 And so things are looking, looks like it might be a long harvest this year and we're going to be
00:03:01.040 running those grain dryers for sure. Well, hopefully not, but it's looking that way.
00:03:05.460 Yeah. So, I mean, and as you pointed out, there's other ways with nitrogen replacement,
00:03:10.060 different type of crops, you can rotate things such as that. And I mean, you know, it reminds
00:03:14.200 me of the energy sector too. Like people don't get credit for the activities they've already been
00:03:18.280 doing to reduce emissions. Even if some of the reasons, you know, you wanted to reduce the
00:03:22.460 nitrogen, well, it's expensive. So if you can run a field peas for a year and help replenish the soil,
00:03:27.620 you'll do that. I mean, you've already been reducing some of the uses for these things just in a
00:03:31.980 cost effective manner, but you don't get any credit for that. No, that's right. You know,
00:03:36.000 we, like our farmers, we're not farming like the eighties anymore. We don't work our land up where,
00:03:41.640 you know, it's no till farming. We're doing precision farming. So, uh, and variable rate
00:03:46.200 technology. So when these, you know, these are high tech outfits and our farmers, you know,
00:03:50.800 these guys are, you know, got degrees call, you know, and, um, you know, they've got a lot of
00:03:55.180 schooling behind them and they're putting this fertilizer where it needs to be. Soil tests are
00:04:00.380 done every spring. Now, you know, we're not just dumping fertilizer out there to, and hoping that
00:04:04.940 we're going to grow a bigger crop. We can't afford it. Fertilizer this spring was about, uh, double
00:04:10.300 what it was before. So when we can go to stuff like variable rate technology, we can reduce the
00:04:15.960 amount of fertilizer we're putting where it's not needed. Like if you look at the Netherlands right now,
00:04:20.500 you know, we're trying to be like the Netherlands, they farm in a bathtub. They're below sea level 0.99
00:04:26.020 and they're about 16 times smaller than the province of Alberta. So it's a pretty intensive
00:04:30.960 agricultural area. And, um, you know, we're being compared to that and, you know, we, we were a mile
00:04:37.480 above sea level in Alberta. Um, and especially, especially in areas like Vulcan County and in
00:04:43.340 Southern Alberta, um, you know, that leaching of, uh, these nutrients into our watersheds is,
00:04:49.060 it's very low. We, you know, we've got some good farmers out there. So I'm really scratching my
00:04:53.520 head as to why, you know, this is just a feel good program for Trudeau. And it really makes no
00:04:59.680 sense at this time. You know, we are evolving. We're trying new technology, but we have 8 billion
00:05:06.240 people to feed and people want big crops and to grow big crops. You know, we got to put the groceries
00:05:11.860 to it. And so we're putting the fertilizer down and we're putting it where it's needed until we can do
00:05:17.940 something different. I, this is just a really bad timing on this proposal.
00:05:23.060 Well, that's it. And, uh, you know, I wrote a piece on this a while back. I did some research
00:05:27.020 and, you know, the human population in the last hundred years has gone up fivefold, but
00:05:32.860 crop yields per acre in modern farms has also gone up fivefold. But I mean, things such as modern
00:05:38.480 effective fertilizer practices, pesticides, and some other things are the reason you can get so much
00:05:43.480 per acre. And, and, uh, as you mentioned, there's not an alternative. It's, it's similar to kind of
00:05:49.500 my earlier rant too about vehicles. Okay. You want to get all the, the gas vehicles off the road. Fair
00:05:54.280 enough, but you got to give us something else to get into. And it's not there yet. And just banning
00:05:58.860 certain types of fertilizer use, if you don't have an alternative, it could be catastrophic. I mean,
00:06:03.540 they got to come up with the alternate first. Yeah. You know, it was a good, I was listening to,
00:06:07.980 um, there's that egg radio. It's on Sirius XM, um, channel 147 and, uh, the egg PhD guy,
00:06:15.220 he's always on about one o'clock in the afternoons. And somebody asked him what he thought of Canada.
00:06:19.840 He's an American, but he, somebody asked him a question. What's his thoughts on this reduction?
00:06:24.400 And he made a good point. He said that, uh, you know, farming, I don't think people realize that
00:06:29.980 farming and forestry, we're a huge carbon. We, we sequester a lot of carbon. So a lot of carbon
00:06:36.740 it's taken in by the plant. So if you reduce the amount of fertilizer, you're growing less plant,
00:06:42.800 you're actually taken, you have less plant to take in that excessive carbon, which, you know,
00:06:47.020 was a really good point. So, you know, we grow more crop, we're taking more carbon in as well.
00:06:51.740 And I don't think people realize that, uh, farmers are one of the biggest, um, the industry really
00:06:57.700 takes in a lot of that excessive carbon. And by cutting back, we're going to have less crop to take
00:07:02.100 that in. I don't know if that's, you know, it was just an interesting point I heard yesterday. So.
00:07:05.880 Yeah, it is. And I mean, everything's kind of integrated. The other thing is too, if, uh,
00:07:11.020 more pressure is put on, I mean, we've got land that hasn't been developed agriculturally and not
00:07:15.580 just in Canada, but other parts of the world. And if, if, uh, a living can't be made or if the
00:07:19.680 prices are getting too high for those commodities, because of some of these limitations, the incentive
00:07:23.980 is there now to expand and cultivate more land than to try and keep up. And we've got, uh, you know,
00:07:29.060 natural areas that could be threatened through this too. Like this can have the opposite effect
00:07:33.120 and actually make things worse for the environment, but they just don't seem to understand that.
00:07:37.760 Well, that's a good point, Corey. You know, we've got a lot of grassland,
00:07:40.980 you know, out east in the eastern part of the Vulcan County, a lot of native grass that was broke back
00:07:46.780 in the thirties. Um, you know, a lot of homesteaders came up and we've got places that should never be
00:07:52.480 broken again, but, um, it's like the, the organic farming argument, you know, if get rid of fertilizer,
00:07:58.460 or herbicides, fertilizers, um, insecticides, we'll, we can never at this time, unless we develop
00:08:05.560 our technology better, we couldn't feed the world if we didn't have these products and we would be
00:08:09.920 ripping up more land than we should all of Eastern Alberta along the Saskatchewan border would, you
00:08:15.580 know, we'd have to break more land up and it'd be catastrophic. You know, those guys tried it.
00:08:19.440 They lasted about 10 years and, uh, it went back to grass in a hurry because just not sustainable.
00:08:26.160 Yeah. There's a lot of sensitive, uh, wildlife populations out there, sage grouse, burrowing
00:08:30.620 owls, uh, antelope. I mean, they, they only have so much land left really that's unbroken that they
00:08:35.940 rely on out there. And, and, uh, I mean, if the government bans us from, I guess, producing on
00:08:40.280 that land, well, it'll save those critters, but then we still end up with a food shortage. It just
00:08:44.120 seems to be such an inane policy they're pushing towards right now.
00:08:46.800 Yeah. Um, you know, we're really going to have, I, you know, fingers crossed, I hope the
00:08:51.740 hail cloud stays away, but excuse me, but, uh, you know, we're going to make up for last
00:08:56.880 year. You know, I, I'm looking at my wheat, uh, this morning, I got a really nice crop
00:09:00.680 coming and those rains, um, there was a lot of areas that were pretty dry and this really
00:09:06.040 helps. So, you know, we're going to pick up the slack for the world on, um, on this grain
00:09:11.440 shortage. So what a time, eh? You imagine if we had to cut 30% fertilizer, um,
00:09:16.800 you know, you're going to see some big crop export this year out of Canada, thanks to
00:09:20.820 how we farm and, um, thanks to the weather. But, uh, yeah, I think Canada is really going
00:09:26.520 to help out the world this year, especially with what's going on in the Ukraine. So, um,
00:09:30.800 yeah, things look good. I just hope, you know, these initiatives like this are really going
00:09:35.740 to work against the farmer and the consumer.
00:09:38.240 Yeah. Well, and right now, I mean, it's still proposed, but I mean, they're, they're
00:09:41.740 pretty solid about what they want to do, but they haven't said how, or, or legislated anything
00:09:46.180 formally yet. So is there any movement on the part of, uh, agricultural producers to
00:09:50.600 organize, push back, lobby against this idea or?
00:09:54.420 Well, they've, you know, I guess there's still a discussion period. And like you mentioned,
00:09:58.860 mentioned, you know, we're, we're obviously looking at worst case scenario and, you know,
00:10:03.620 a lot could change. Um, a lot of the municipalities have started writing letters, um, at the agricultural
00:10:10.240 service boards to, uh, the minister of agriculture in Ottawa, but, you know, I've been, I've been
00:10:16.880 an egg fieldman here for Vulcan County for 25 years. Letters don't seem to go very far anymore.
00:10:22.500 They just kind of get shuffled in the filing cabinet. Um, you know, I think when the date
00:10:27.860 gets closer and we know what's going to happen, uh, I think you'll see guys wake up a little
00:10:32.320 bit. Um, I think it's in its infancy right now. So we're just kind of waiting to see
00:10:36.800 what comes out. I don't know how they, if they do go forward with this and do have a
00:10:42.440 concrete number to cut, you know, egg Canada has a skeleton of a staff, um, since the Harper
00:10:48.680 days, you know, they've cut Alberta egg Canada staff by a lot. I don't know if they're going
00:10:52.800 to have a fertilizer police going out if they're going to audit our annual purchase of a fertilizer.
00:10:58.180 But, um, yeah, I think right now I wouldn't get too worked up. I think, um, I think what's
00:11:04.280 going on in the Netherlands is maybe woke the world up a little bit. Um, so, you know,
00:11:08.860 but we're, you know, people are watching and I guess we'll just see what unfolds in the next
00:11:13.660 couple of years, Corey.
00:11:14.660 Yeah. And I mean, we just, we want to keep it in the scroll at least and discuss it.
00:11:18.220 Or of course, if we don't, then they'll definitely impose something ridiculous, unfortunately.
00:11:21.660 And, and, uh, you know, we have to, this slides under the radar, agricultural producers are
00:11:26.260 a minority among Canadians. I mean, there's only so many people now who do it. There's,
00:11:30.020 you know, a small family can, can manage a much larger area than it used to be, you know,
00:11:34.760 a hundred years ago, but it also means it's a limited voice when, when there's pressures
00:11:38.560 coming on. Uh, something interesting, uh, uh, another fellow who's up in Northern Saskatchewan
00:11:44.120 that I know, and he's a agricultural producer, but he's saying, you know, he's tired. He's
00:11:47.520 kind of had enough. He was thinking of some more expansion in capital investment next year,
00:11:51.300 but now he's thinking, uh, maybe I'm just going to pull up and just retire and sell off
00:11:55.760 and get out. And, uh, you know, these pressures have an impact even when it's a threatened policy
00:12:00.180 change, uh, you know, before it even comes in. I mean, there just needs to be a little
00:12:04.220 more respect shown to the people feeding us right now.
00:12:07.380 Yeah. Well, a good example, Corey, um, I, I farmed between Blackie Harrington country and,
00:12:12.760 uh, what a hundred year generation farm just sold a thousand acres.
00:12:17.520 Um, and it got into a bidding war, you know, we're in pretty good farmland country and it
00:12:22.340 went for average just under 7,000 bucks an acre for dry land crop. And it went to the
00:12:28.080 Hutterites. So that's where it's going big farms and, uh, the colonies, you just kind
00:12:34.760 of, you know, and I don't blame these guys. Same thing as your friend there. Um, that's
00:12:39.220 a lot of money for, you know, thousand acres, 7 million bucks. I'm sure Trudeau and his
00:12:44.180 capital gains will take half of it, but, uh, you know, guys are getting bigger. The
00:12:49.140 smaller guys are getting out, you know, between me and my brother, we have a thousand acres
00:12:52.660 and, uh, you know, by the time I'm done and he's done, it'll, it'll, we'll probably be
00:12:57.600 done as well. So that's just the way things are going.
00:13:00.220 Yeah. Well, it's unfortunate, but we'll keep pushing. I mean, you know, it's, it's just
00:13:05.180 so important to all of us. I mean, not just in the, in the sad aspect of a, of a multi-generational 0.86
00:13:09.500 kind of, you know, industry and lifestyle kind of falling by the wayside. Some of that's
00:13:13.320 just changing times as well, but all the same, uh, some of it is, it's just bad government
00:13:18.180 policy. That's just not a good enough excuse to make such changes like that. So, well, hey,
00:13:23.560 it's never hopeless. We got to just keep pushing and defending and, uh, maybe we'll get a good
00:13:27.760 outcome eventually. Well, you know, and that's the big thing is I get like, you've seen me
00:13:33.580 on Twitter. I get so mad, but you know, 90%, like you, I guess you said earlier, 80% of
00:13:39.540 Canada is two generations off the farm. Nobody, and there's people that are savvy and follow
00:13:46.180 what's going on in the world, but nobody knows how farms hardly work anymore, you know, but
00:13:51.820 they're quick to judge. I got into it last week and some of the, some of the, I just, I
00:13:56.240 don't know why, you know, you've seen me on there. I just, I need to get off Twitter, but,
00:14:00.180 uh, man, people know nothing about, some of these people know nothing about agriculture
00:14:04.340 and they're a couple of generations off the farm, but they are very good armchair quarterback
00:14:09.260 farmers and, uh, it's tough. They need to get out on the farm and come see how things work,
00:14:14.500 see what's, uh, what we're doing. Most farmers are, would love to show the urban world,
00:14:20.440 especially the left urban world. Um, how things, how things are done grassroots. We're losing
00:14:26.760 grassroots in this country, in the world, but especially Canada right now. Yeah. Well,
00:14:32.160 and unfortunately a lot of those people and those, uh, you know, willfully ignorant ones 0.65
00:14:36.280 will suddenly realize it when their grocery bills go through the roof, but by then the damage is
00:14:40.940 already done and it'd be better to prevent it. But I mean, Hey, Twitter, it's an entertainment area.
00:14:46.160 You know, you just got to learn how to stir them up and then back off. And, uh, as per my coffee
00:14:50.840 cup, enjoy the liberal tears. If you can stir them up on there, use it as a vent. But I know it's a,
00:14:56.880 it can be hard on us to get on there and get too wound up sometimes.
00:15:00.280 Well, Lee, you're a lot smarter at it than me. I go a little too far and then I get up at two in
00:15:05.260 the morning and delete everything I put on there.
00:15:08.700 Well, I, I have my moments as well. All right. Well, thanks for coming on to talk to me today,
00:15:14.080 Kelly. It's always good to have you on and it's good to hear, you know, that there's a good season,
00:15:17.640 at least building up and let's hope the weather maintains. And, you know, as you said, it's good
00:15:21.500 for the whole world right now. We're in some pretty crazy times and getting a lot of food out there
00:15:25.780 into the world market is going to be good for a lot of people. Yeah, you bet. No, I like, I,
00:15:30.440 I just can't believe how things, how much better things got here this summer. There was no wind,
00:15:35.140 as you probably noticed, just the nice summer caught some nice rains and, uh, it's going to be some
00:15:40.300 pretty big cereal crops. We crops are going to be big. Barley is going to be big. Um, lots decent
00:15:45.820 hay. I don't think it was bumper crop hay, but, uh, we are really going to pick up our world grain
00:15:51.580 ending stocks out of Canada. Anyways, things look pretty good. If we have a good harvest.
00:15:56.600 Right on. Well, we'll, uh, check in with you again down the road. And hopefully at that point,
00:16:00.100 you're talking about how great the harvest was. Okay. Sounds good. Corey. Take care.