Western Standard - Legal landscape - Lawyer Keith Wilson speaks on Tamara Lich court issues.

00:00:00.000 Hello, Mr. Wilson. How are you doing?

00:00:01.760 I'm great, Corey. How are you?

00:00:03.340 Very good. I'm glad we could corner you today. I know you've had a hectic couple of months going on.

00:00:09.360 Yes, it's been the adventure of a lifetime, for sure. 19 days on the ground in Ottawa.

00:00:17.360 Very long days. It would be a couple of movies to tell you all the things that happened and what we

00:00:24.000 were dealing with on the ground. I'm very happy I was there. And then in addition to that, as you

00:00:28.880 know, because the same time I was flying to Ottawa, I was scheduled to be on your show to talk about

00:00:33.860 the other charter challenge I'm involved in, which is representing a former premier of Peckford

00:00:38.240 and challenging the travel mandates. Yeah, no, you've had a lot on the go. So maybe I want to

00:00:44.840 clarify because you've just kind of been all over the place. Are you still then active in representing

00:00:48.600 some of the convoy organizers or the convoy itself? Yes. In fact, there's a court application going

00:00:54.340 ahead this afternoon in Ontario, relating to some of the donated funds. It's earlier this week, we were

00:01:02.340 focused on getting Tamara Leach out of jail because remarkably, she was jailed for longer than most

00:01:11.220 people would be for serious crimes. You know, it's been it's been hard to believe many of the things that

00:01:19.140 Canadians have had to witness in the past weeks, let alone in the past two years.

00:01:24.260 Yeah, it's been infuriating. I mean, I won't pretend to know Tamara well, but we've had communications over

00:01:30.660 the years. She's another political minded person in Alberta over a period of time. This is not some

00:01:36.180 dangerous or crazed or unstable person by any means. She was never going to put anybody at any sort of

00:01:41.540 risk. And it was just infuriating to know that she was being incarcerated like that without a chance for

00:01:48.500 bail. And when with so many more dangerous people, unfortunately, get released quite quickly.

00:01:53.460 Well, I mean, she I think she's sort of the paradigm average concerned, honest Canadian. You know,

00:02:01.460 she saw what's happening to her country. She's a mother. She's a grandmother. And she became involved

00:02:09.860 in the Freedom Convoy. She had this idea that maybe she could generate four to five thousand dollars in

00:02:17.060 donations. Set up the GoFundMe. Never in her wildest dreams did she think it would hit 10 million.

00:02:25.460 And then, of course, we arrived myself and some other lawyers. I'm on contract to the Justice

00:02:32.020 Center for Constitutional Freedoms. And we arrived on February 2nd, just as GoFundMe was starting to

00:02:41.140 clamp things down. So that was one of the first tests we had to deal with on the ground was deal with

00:02:45.140 GoFundMe. And then on the Friday, they pulled the surprise and decided that it was an improper

00:02:50.420 fundraiser and that they were effectively going to redirect the money to another group. And we can

00:02:54.980 only use our imagination to imagine what group that would have been. And then events just were

00:03:02.020 continuing to transpire from there. So what we're seeing now, I mean, I've characterized it,

00:03:07.300 though, as a witch hunt. I mean, they're far from finished. They seem to be quite determined,

00:03:10.980 the government and some members to really just chase down and punish anybody who is remotely

00:03:15.540 supportive of this action in the last month. I'm just kind of curious, though, I understand

00:03:20.820 it's an absolute right for a person to have counsel and an attorney represent them. But I mean,

00:03:25.380 our rights seem to be sort of fluid things these days. Have you as a lawyer, has the JCCF gotten any

00:03:31.380 pressure because you guys have been at least legally supportive of the convoy organizers?

00:03:37.140 Well, it's been uncertain, you know, and there were times when I was on the ground and

00:03:45.860 acting as a liaison with the police, both the city police, the Ottawa City Police and the OPP.

00:03:53.540 And especially when the raid started, you know, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility that I was

00:04:01.140 going to find myself arrested just because so many of the rules are out the window right now. It's very

00:04:06.740 difficult as a lawyer to give advice because, you know, I would get the question from the truckers.

00:04:11.620 Well, even the all of them who had their bank accounts frozen, like think about that, what that

00:04:17.620 meant. And these, you know, I've been watching the House of Commons committees dealing with this

00:04:23.140 and the level of misinformation or completely inaccurate information is startling.

00:04:28.980 There was testimony earlier this week that the RCMP had contacted each of these people before they

00:04:35.860 froze their bank accounts. That is simply not true. These people found out that their bank accounts

00:04:41.620 were frozen by getting phone calls from spouses saying, hey, I can't pay for the daycare or I just

00:04:48.340 went to pay for the dentist or I can't get groceries or the credit card doesn't work.

00:04:53.780 You know, and think about that. These people, it just, it was, we quickly concluded working with

00:05:03.620 the nine that I had that had their bank accounts frozen, that they would have been better off in

00:05:08.260 jail. The reason they would have been better off is their spouse's paycheck went into that black box. 1.00

00:05:14.660 They could not pay for anything. They couldn't pay for their mortgage. They couldn't get fuel. They were

00:05:20.500 stuck. You know, to think that that happened in Canada, not China, not Venezuela, but Canada

00:05:31.220 is, is still, still shocking.

00:05:35.380 Oh, it's horrible. And yeah, I mean, people got to think about that. My wife and I have

00:05:38.740 joint accounts, things like that. Maybe I'd pull a stunt that Jane might not agree with and suddenly

00:05:42.820 our account's frozen while she's getting punished for something she had absolutely nothing to do with. I

00:05:46.900 mean, again, even if it was a sole account, we've got some issues here on, on why, you know, my

00:05:51.460 accounts should be frozen, but the, the blanket punitive approach this, this government has taken

00:05:56.900 on this is, has been horrific. Is there, have they started lifting the holds on some of these

00:06:01.460 accounts at least yet?

00:06:03.460 Well, they did. Um, some of them are lifted. The individuals for the most part have been lifted.

00:06:10.340 And, you know, if I could, Corey, just to step back, cause I, you can imagine I've had to reflect on

00:06:16.660 what's going on here. Why did this happen? And I honestly think that, that what happened is the

00:06:25.140 government just cannot, those in power. So, so the prime minister and those around him just could not

00:06:33.700 accept the notion that a large number of Canadians fundamentally disagree with what the government's

00:06:41.140 been doing, that a large number of reasonable Canadians of all ethnic backgrounds and all skin colors,

00:06:49.300 um, disagree and are deeply troubled about government overreach to the point where this convoy took on

00:06:59.140 such size and scale and spontaneity, um, and the donations that it bothered Trudeau and others so much

00:07:11.060 that he was prepared to use everything, everything in his arsenal, jailing people. And if you've seen the

00:07:22.020 videos, beating, sending the goons in to beat people Canadians up who were at the protests, um, seizing

00:07:30.420 and freezing them out of life and the economy through their bank accounts. Um, the, the, the, the notion

00:07:38.900 that Canadians would stand up to the government is something that Trudeau obviously finds both so

00:07:45.940 repulsive and threatening at the same time that he was prepared to invoke the emergencies act for the

00:07:52.980 first time in its existence. And, and I really think that's what went on here. Um, and it's deeply

00:07:59.300 troubling because the ability to criticize government, the ability to ridicule government is fundamental.

00:08:04.980 I advise my clients at one point, just start practicing what they do in North Korea. Wake 0.99

00:08:09.220 up every morning and say, Oh dear leader Trudeau, you are the greatest and cry for him. You know,

00:08:14.180 maybe he'll have some mercy for you. I'm being sarcastic, but it's, it's serious because there's

00:08:20.340 been no repercussions for the government for doing this. What incentive do they have not to do it again?

00:08:26.180 What disincentive do they have? So, um, there's a journey ahead and the fight's not over. And, uh,

00:08:33.780 I think more and more Canadians need to ask some serious questions about the conduct of their

00:08:38.660 government and the direction that it's taking the country. Yeah. Well, the concentration of power in

00:08:43.540 the prime minister's office, I mean, to think that, and a lot of people I think agree. I mean,

00:08:47.700 there were liberal members even who didn't support the, the bringing in the emergencies act and

00:08:51.220 obviously didn't last very long because they realized it wasn't going to withstand very long if they

00:08:54.980 tried to keep it in there. Uh, but still one man with, uh, you know, a chip on his shoulder and

00:09:01.060 a minority government could still bring that in and manage to do things like seize people's accounts

00:09:06.500 and press people into labor. I mean, these are the little things people forget too. That's a scary

00:09:10.180 concept. The government can come out and force you to do labor for them. Uh, so, you know, with pay,

00:09:15.380 but come on, it's insane. I mean, we, we, we've got to follow up on this and not let this precedent go.

00:09:20.100 I completely agree. Um, and you know, even the, I think the reason why they backed off

00:09:28.340 on the emergency act was actually from the banking community, uh, the speed and zeal with which

00:09:38.580 the bank seized people's accounts that they didn't do any due diligence. And I know that because I have

00:09:44.980 the actual RCMP document that listed all the people and I saw the evidence it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

00:09:51.460 it's shocking. The, the first 12 people whose bank accounts were seized, the evidentiary basis,

00:10:00.180 the link is to CTV's who's who in the freedom convoy movement. Like this RCMP officer didn't even

00:10:08.500 leave his chair to do this investigation. He could have sat there chewing on donuts and drinking coffee

00:10:14.820 and just cutting and pasting. It was pathetic. In any event, that's all it took for the banks to do, 1.00

00:10:21.300 to take the most radical action they can take against the customer. And, uh, when the deputy

00:10:27.860 prime minister started saying, Oh, and we're going to look at going after the donors,

00:10:34.100 which is over 200,000 average Canadians with a, uh, an average donation amount of $35. Um,

00:10:42.260 and when the Ottawa police acting police chief got all bombastic on camera and started talking about

00:10:49.620 how we're going to thoroughly investigate everyone, including the donors and go after them, that caused

00:10:55.620 a lot of people to go down to their banks and take money out, which created, if you research it,

00:11:00.900 you'll see there was actually a run on the banks, uh, cause people to start opening bank accounts at

00:11:06.820 credit unions, uh, because of it, they lost their confidence in the chartered banks and caused others

00:11:13.220 more broadly in the investment community. I'm told from good sources to say, wait a minute,

00:11:18.420 what kind of country is this? Is this a rule of law or banana Republic? And we know which direction 1.00

00:11:23.860 this prime minister has taken us. So it wasn't the threat of losing a vote in the Senate. I'm told

00:11:29.700 it was the pushback from the international finance community and the big banks realizing that they

00:11:37.620 probably were a little too enthusiastic and going along with the government that actually caused

00:11:42.420 both them to lift the freezes on the personal accounts, as well as to, uh, uh, discontinue the

00:11:48.740 emergencies act proclamation. So you've got a whole lot of irons in the fire now. Uh, I mean,

00:11:55.140 it's great to know, uh, Tamara Leach at least is at home now, uh, you know, to, to await, uh, 1.00

00:12:00.260 following through and then trial, I would imagine and things such as that, uh, which could be a long

00:12:04.820 process, but she's still facing some, I mean, they call it council to commit mischief, but there could 1.00

00:12:08.580 be some very serious penalties as, as light as the charges sound. Uh, she's facing, uh, some very

00:12:14.580 possible long jail terms.

00:12:16.100 Well, I don't think she is. And I appreciate that, that on its face, you know, you read the criminal

00:12:22.420 code. It's like anything, you can look at the maximum fine or the maximum penalty and become

00:12:26.260 concerned. Um, the, the government and the politicians and, um, the city officials, the police,

00:12:38.740 they just never got their head around basic things, you know, so one of the issues was the

00:12:44.180 injunction against honking horns. Tamara Leach has never owned a semi truck. She doesn't own a semi 0.96

00:12:52.420 truck. She doesn't have an air horn. Um, most of the people listed in some of these legal proceedings

00:13:00.660 don't own trucks. Um, uh, there's this sort of narrative that the government created

00:13:08.020 and, um, is acting out on it despite the evidence of what really happened on the ground.

00:13:14.020 But what's more concerning for me with respect to the government conduct and the actions they've

00:13:19.140 taken against Tamara is if you, if you have, have a chance to review the bail conditions,

00:13:26.660 it would make Putin envious. And I mean that seriously. She is not allowed to criticize the

00:13:33.220 government. She is not allowed to criticize or speak against COVID-19 restrictions or do anything

00:13:40.740 in support of the freedom movement. She's not allowed to be on social media. She's not allowed

00:13:46.500 to directly or indirectly communicate or support with anybody in those things. Even Putin's strongest

00:13:52.580 critic who's in jail, Valavi, uh, this week from jail called on Russians to protest in the street.

00:14:01.540 Tamara can't even say that as a Canadian. Uh, uh, apparently according to Trudeau on Tuesday, 0.68

00:14:08.340 uh, Volani assisted the Canadian government in identifying 10 oligarchs that could be added to

00:14:13.300 the sanctions list. Tamara can't do that in Canada. It's remarkable that in Canada our government is so 1.00

00:14:22.180 afraid of, of Tamara that they have placed this unprecedented gag order on her. And just so we're

00:14:31.380 clear she's not home yet. The crown prosecutor during one of the bail hearings said, well, why are you

00:14:38.740 driving home? Why don't you fly commercial? And I'm like, are you kidding me? There's a travel ban

00:14:46.660 because the Canadian government won't let her get on a plane. So it's been, you know, it's, it's been

00:14:53.940 exasperating the nonsense here, but it's serious. And, um, those bail conditions are going to be appealed.

00:15:02.740 They're outrageous. They violate. So first her right to travel and mobility has been violated. Now 0.89

00:15:08.740 her right of association, freedom of expression, et cetera, is being violated. Um, we've got to keep

00:15:17.220 fighting for our charter. It's there for a reason. And, um, um, but it's a serious time we're in.

00:15:25.140 So yeah, getting back to the higher level of things and this happened prior to you going to Ottawa,

00:15:29.700 you'd already gotten involved with, with Brian Peckford and, and, uh, bringing forth a charter

00:15:33.540 challenge. Uh, how is that moving along? I mean, what sort of timelines are we looking at? I mean,

00:15:38.420 the pandemic restrictions and everything may all be over by the time this gets to the courts, but

00:15:42.580 it's still very important that we establish, uh, you know, what our rights are and make sure the

00:15:46.980 government can't overreach like this again. Exactly. Uh, interestingly, I can report to

00:15:52.180 you that, uh, about an hour ago, I wrapped up a hearing before the federal court on that very

00:15:57.860 question. Um, we're going to have all our evidence in this week. We've got some tremendous experts,

00:16:03.380 medical experts, Dr. McCullough, Dr. Bridle and others, um, to help us demonstrate that there's

00:16:09.140 no proportionality here that the science now shows that it doesn't this whole idea that somehow by

00:16:16.740 banning Canadians from getting on planes and traveling within our country or leaving our 0.82

00:16:21.700 country and coming back into it, banning Canadians that are unvaccinated somehow makes Canadians safer 1.00

00:16:27.700 is just patent nonsense, not supported by any evidence or science. And as purely as I think we

00:16:33.540 all know, a punitive measure as part of prime minister Trudeau's insidious divisions, division,

00:16:39.620 you know, politics by division. Um, so where we're at is over the next few months, there'll be the

00:16:46.340 exchange of evidence. Um, we're trying to have the case heard this summer. Um, but the court's saying

00:16:53.460 they're full and I have to believe that to be true. They're experiencing lots of challenge charter

00:16:58.100 challenges right now. This is the federal court. Uh, but we will get it to the court as soon as

00:17:02.820 possible. Uh, all of the council are committed to that and it won't matter if the travel bans lifted

00:17:09.300 because the court needs to rule on this. The court needs to be clear about whether or not

00:17:15.700 our charter rights mean anything and whether at the whim of the federal minister of transport

00:17:22.900 or the federal minister of health or other government officials, they can simply decide

00:17:28.900 that for the sake of our safety, uh, in their sole discretion that our charter rights can be overridden.

00:17:36.660 So the court needs to rule on this. Um, and we're going to continue to pursue it, uh, to have a ruling

00:17:44.020 regardless of whether at some point, uh, the prime minister decides to drop his vindictive policy.

00:17:49.940 Yeah. Well, and it is very just important to establish these things. I mean, whether people

00:17:55.860 want to face it or not, this isn't going to be our last pandemic. This isn't going to be the last

00:17:59.860 national emergency of any sort we might encounter. And we need to have some pretty clear cut lines on

00:18:05.060 what citizens rights are going to be in those extraordinary circumstances. Cause, uh, we, we

00:18:08.980 didn't properly recognize them this time around. I mean, section one of the charter in my view was,

00:18:12.740 was terribly abused, uh, for the intent of what that was supposed to be about. So I appreciate what you

00:18:17.940 have been doing. I mean, like I said, you've got your hands full, you and the JCCF, where can people

00:18:21.860 find more information on what you're doing and help support you to, you know, keep up these challenges

00:18:25.780 and, and, uh, you know, defending some of those people who have been, uh, charged for taking part

00:18:30.340 in the protest. Sure. And, uh, we could sure use help because, uh, there's, there's several lawyers,

00:18:36.100 not just myself. Uh, I'm, I'm very fortunate to have, uh, two different teams of lawyers. Uh, one team on the,

00:18:42.340 uh, Premier Peckford's a challenge, uh, for the travel mandates, as well as, uh, another team,

00:18:48.180 um, uh, with the several legal issues that we're dealing with for the Freedom Convoy.

00:18:53.620 Um, the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, this is what they're about. They're about, uh,

00:19:00.420 taking on cases to try and ensure that Canadians charter rights are respected. Uh, if you go to their

00:19:06.980 website, the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms website, you can donate and you can also decide,

00:19:12.820 which particular, um, charter or constitutional case you want to support and you can direct your

00:19:19.940 support. And because it's a registered charity, you also can receive a charitable receipt that can

00:19:25.220 help you at tax time. So, uh, um, I'm working at very significantly reduced hourly rates because

00:19:32.660 this is not just important for me. It's very important for my family and my children. Uh, so I'm

00:19:39.060 donating significantly to it and I'm happy to do that. And, uh, we could certainly use, uh, the

00:19:45.140 support so that we can bring the horsepower that we need to run all of these cases right through to

00:19:49.700 the Supreme Court of Canada, because that's what we need. You know, interesting, Corey, one of the

00:19:53.860 things that the truckers have been calling for is a public inquiry that we need to have a public

00:20:00.020 inquiry into governments provincially and federally handling of COVID. You know, what did they get

00:20:07.460 right and what did they get wrong? What are the lessons learned? Because as you note, if it's just

00:20:14.180 the mere notion of a crisis self-declared by government, then our rights are nothing

00:20:19.620 and we're not living in a free country. So we really need to get to the bottom of what happened

00:20:24.180 so that we can hopefully learn from it and get back to the Canada we once had where rights were

00:20:30.020 respected and government considered itself having limits on how it could interfere with our lives

00:20:35.380 and our families. So, uh, we're trying to do important work at the justice center and, uh,

00:20:40.900 support is very welcome. Great. Well, yeah, if, if nothing else, let's hope we learn something from

00:20:46.660 this. So, uh, thank you for taking the time to talk with us today and, uh, for the work you've been

00:20:51.460 doing so far. I hope we get the chance again to talk soon and maybe start talking about some of

00:20:54.740 those legal victories you'll be having. Yeah. I'm happy to talk to you more now that

00:20:58.740 things are slowing it down a little bit and I'm back, back, uh, back in Alberta. So thanks for

00:21:02.900 having me on. I really appreciate it. All right. Thank you, Mr. Wilson. Thank you, sir.

Western Standard - March 09, 2022

Legal landscape - Lawyer Keith Wilson speaks on Tamara Lich court issues.

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