Legal landscape - Lawyer Keith Wilson speaks on Tamara Lich court issues.
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Summary
In this episode, we catch up with the Freedom Convoy's legal counsel, Corey Wilson, to discuss the events that have transpired in the past two months, and the impact they have had on the Canadian justice system.
Transcript
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Very good. I'm glad we could corner you today. I know you've had a hectic couple of months going on.
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Yes, it's been the adventure of a lifetime, for sure. 19 days on the ground in Ottawa.
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Very long days. It would be a couple of movies to tell you all the things that happened and what we
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were dealing with on the ground. I'm very happy I was there. And then in addition to that, as you
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know, because the same time I was flying to Ottawa, I was scheduled to be on your show to talk about
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the other charter challenge I'm involved in, which is representing a former premier of Peckford
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and challenging the travel mandates. Yeah, no, you've had a lot on the go. So maybe I want to
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clarify because you've just kind of been all over the place. Are you still then active in representing
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some of the convoy organizers or the convoy itself? Yes. In fact, there's a court application going
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ahead this afternoon in Ontario, relating to some of the donated funds. It's earlier this week, we were
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focused on getting Tamara Leach out of jail because remarkably, she was jailed for longer than most
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people would be for serious crimes. You know, it's been it's been hard to believe many of the things that
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Canadians have had to witness in the past weeks, let alone in the past two years.
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Yeah, it's been infuriating. I mean, I won't pretend to know Tamara well, but we've had communications over
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the years. She's another political minded person in Alberta over a period of time. This is not some
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dangerous or crazed or unstable person by any means. She was never going to put anybody at any sort of
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risk. And it was just infuriating to know that she was being incarcerated like that without a chance for
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bail. And when with so many more dangerous people, unfortunately, get released quite quickly.
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Well, I mean, she I think she's sort of the paradigm average concerned, honest Canadian. You know,
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she saw what's happening to her country. She's a mother. She's a grandmother. And she became involved
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in the Freedom Convoy. She had this idea that maybe she could generate four to five thousand dollars in
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donations. Set up the GoFundMe. Never in her wildest dreams did she think it would hit 10 million.
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And then, of course, we arrived myself and some other lawyers. I'm on contract to the Justice
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Center for Constitutional Freedoms. And we arrived on February 2nd, just as GoFundMe was starting to
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clamp things down. So that was one of the first tests we had to deal with on the ground was deal with
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GoFundMe. And then on the Friday, they pulled the surprise and decided that it was an improper
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fundraiser and that they were effectively going to redirect the money to another group. And we can
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only use our imagination to imagine what group that would have been. And then events just were
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continuing to transpire from there. So what we're seeing now, I mean, I've characterized it,
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though, as a witch hunt. I mean, they're far from finished. They seem to be quite determined,
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the government and some members to really just chase down and punish anybody who is remotely
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supportive of this action in the last month. I'm just kind of curious, though, I understand
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it's an absolute right for a person to have counsel and an attorney represent them. But I mean,
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our rights seem to be sort of fluid things these days. Have you as a lawyer, has the JCCF gotten any
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pressure because you guys have been at least legally supportive of the convoy organizers?
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Well, it's been uncertain, you know, and there were times when I was on the ground and
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acting as a liaison with the police, both the city police, the Ottawa City Police and the OPP.
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And especially when the raid started, you know, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility that I was
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going to find myself arrested just because so many of the rules are out the window right now. It's very
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difficult as a lawyer to give advice because, you know, I would get the question from the truckers.
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Well, even the all of them who had their bank accounts frozen, like think about that, what that
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meant. And these, you know, I've been watching the House of Commons committees dealing with this
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and the level of misinformation or completely inaccurate information is startling.
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There was testimony earlier this week that the RCMP had contacted each of these people before they
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froze their bank accounts. That is simply not true. These people found out that their bank accounts
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were frozen by getting phone calls from spouses saying, hey, I can't pay for the daycare or I just
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went to pay for the dentist or I can't get groceries or the credit card doesn't work.
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You know, and think about that. These people, it just, it was, we quickly concluded working with
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the nine that I had that had their bank accounts frozen, that they would have been better off in
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jail. The reason they would have been better off is their spouse's paycheck went into that black box.
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They could not pay for anything. They couldn't pay for their mortgage. They couldn't get fuel. They were
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stuck. You know, to think that that happened in Canada, not China, not Venezuela, but Canada
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Oh, it's horrible. And yeah, I mean, people got to think about that. My wife and I have
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joint accounts, things like that. Maybe I'd pull a stunt that Jane might not agree with and suddenly
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our account's frozen while she's getting punished for something she had absolutely nothing to do with. I
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mean, again, even if it was a sole account, we've got some issues here on, on why, you know, my
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accounts should be frozen, but the, the blanket punitive approach this, this government has taken
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on this is, has been horrific. Is there, have they started lifting the holds on some of these
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Well, they did. Um, some of them are lifted. The individuals for the most part have been lifted.
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And, you know, if I could, Corey, just to step back, cause I, you can imagine I've had to reflect on
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what's going on here. Why did this happen? And I honestly think that, that what happened is the
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government just cannot, those in power. So, so the prime minister and those around him just could not
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accept the notion that a large number of Canadians fundamentally disagree with what the government's
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been doing, that a large number of reasonable Canadians of all ethnic backgrounds and all skin colors,
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um, disagree and are deeply troubled about government overreach to the point where this convoy took on
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such size and scale and spontaneity, um, and the donations that it bothered Trudeau and others so much
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that he was prepared to use everything, everything in his arsenal, jailing people. And if you've seen the
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videos, beating, sending the goons in to beat people Canadians up who were at the protests, um, seizing
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and freezing them out of life and the economy through their bank accounts. Um, the, the, the, the notion
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that Canadians would stand up to the government is something that Trudeau obviously finds both so
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repulsive and threatening at the same time that he was prepared to invoke the emergencies act for the
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first time in its existence. And, and I really think that's what went on here. Um, and it's deeply
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troubling because the ability to criticize government, the ability to ridicule government is fundamental.
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I advise my clients at one point, just start practicing what they do in North Korea. Wake
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up every morning and say, Oh dear leader Trudeau, you are the greatest and cry for him. You know,
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maybe he'll have some mercy for you. I'm being sarcastic, but it's, it's serious because there's
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been no repercussions for the government for doing this. What incentive do they have not to do it again?
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What disincentive do they have? So, um, there's a journey ahead and the fight's not over. And, uh,
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I think more and more Canadians need to ask some serious questions about the conduct of their
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government and the direction that it's taking the country. Yeah. Well, the concentration of power in
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the prime minister's office, I mean, to think that, and a lot of people I think agree. I mean,
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there were liberal members even who didn't support the, the bringing in the emergencies act and
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obviously didn't last very long because they realized it wasn't going to withstand very long if they
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tried to keep it in there. Uh, but still one man with, uh, you know, a chip on his shoulder and
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a minority government could still bring that in and manage to do things like seize people's accounts
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and press people into labor. I mean, these are the little things people forget too. That's a scary
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concept. The government can come out and force you to do labor for them. Uh, so, you know, with pay,
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but come on, it's insane. I mean, we, we, we've got to follow up on this and not let this precedent go.
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I completely agree. Um, and you know, even the, I think the reason why they backed off
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on the emergency act was actually from the banking community, uh, the speed and zeal with which
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the bank seized people's accounts that they didn't do any due diligence. And I know that because I have
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the actual RCMP document that listed all the people and I saw the evidence it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
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it's shocking. The, the first 12 people whose bank accounts were seized, the evidentiary basis,
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the link is to CTV's who's who in the freedom convoy movement. Like this RCMP officer didn't even
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leave his chair to do this investigation. He could have sat there chewing on donuts and drinking coffee
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and just cutting and pasting. It was pathetic. In any event, that's all it took for the banks to do,
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to take the most radical action they can take against the customer. And, uh, when the deputy
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prime minister started saying, Oh, and we're going to look at going after the donors,
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which is over 200,000 average Canadians with a, uh, an average donation amount of $35. Um,
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and when the Ottawa police acting police chief got all bombastic on camera and started talking about
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how we're going to thoroughly investigate everyone, including the donors and go after them, that caused
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a lot of people to go down to their banks and take money out, which created, if you research it,
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you'll see there was actually a run on the banks, uh, cause people to start opening bank accounts at
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credit unions, uh, because of it, they lost their confidence in the chartered banks and caused others
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more broadly in the investment community. I'm told from good sources to say, wait a minute,
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what kind of country is this? Is this a rule of law or banana Republic? And we know which direction
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this prime minister has taken us. So it wasn't the threat of losing a vote in the Senate. I'm told
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it was the pushback from the international finance community and the big banks realizing that they
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probably were a little too enthusiastic and going along with the government that actually caused
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both them to lift the freezes on the personal accounts, as well as to, uh, uh, discontinue the
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emergencies act proclamation. So you've got a whole lot of irons in the fire now. Uh, I mean,
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it's great to know, uh, Tamara Leach at least is at home now, uh, you know, to, to await, uh,
00:12:00.260
following through and then trial, I would imagine and things such as that, uh, which could be a long
00:12:04.820
process, but she's still facing some, I mean, they call it council to commit mischief, but there could
00:12:08.580
be some very serious penalties as, as light as the charges sound. Uh, she's facing, uh, some very
00:12:16.100
Well, I don't think she is. And I appreciate that, that on its face, you know, you read the criminal
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code. It's like anything, you can look at the maximum fine or the maximum penalty and become
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concerned. Um, the, the government and the politicians and, um, the city officials, the police,
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they just never got their head around basic things, you know, so one of the issues was the
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injunction against honking horns. Tamara Leach has never owned a semi truck. She doesn't own a semi
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truck. She doesn't have an air horn. Um, most of the people listed in some of these legal proceedings
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don't own trucks. Um, uh, there's this sort of narrative that the government created
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and, um, is acting out on it despite the evidence of what really happened on the ground.
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But what's more concerning for me with respect to the government conduct and the actions they've
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taken against Tamara is if you, if you have, have a chance to review the bail conditions,
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it would make Putin envious. And I mean that seriously. She is not allowed to criticize the
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government. She is not allowed to criticize or speak against COVID-19 restrictions or do anything
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in support of the freedom movement. She's not allowed to be on social media. She's not allowed
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to directly or indirectly communicate or support with anybody in those things. Even Putin's strongest
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critic who's in jail, Valavi, uh, this week from jail called on Russians to protest in the street.
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Tamara can't even say that as a Canadian. Uh, uh, apparently according to Trudeau on Tuesday,
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uh, Volani assisted the Canadian government in identifying 10 oligarchs that could be added to
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the sanctions list. Tamara can't do that in Canada. It's remarkable that in Canada our government is so
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afraid of, of Tamara that they have placed this unprecedented gag order on her. And just so we're
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clear she's not home yet. The crown prosecutor during one of the bail hearings said, well, why are you
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driving home? Why don't you fly commercial? And I'm like, are you kidding me? There's a travel ban
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because the Canadian government won't let her get on a plane. So it's been, you know, it's, it's been
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exasperating the nonsense here, but it's serious. And, um, those bail conditions are going to be appealed.
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They're outrageous. They violate. So first her right to travel and mobility has been violated. Now
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her right of association, freedom of expression, et cetera, is being violated. Um, we've got to keep
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fighting for our charter. It's there for a reason. And, um, um, but it's a serious time we're in.
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So yeah, getting back to the higher level of things and this happened prior to you going to Ottawa,
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you'd already gotten involved with, with Brian Peckford and, and, uh, bringing forth a charter
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challenge. Uh, how is that moving along? I mean, what sort of timelines are we looking at? I mean,
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the pandemic restrictions and everything may all be over by the time this gets to the courts, but
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it's still very important that we establish, uh, you know, what our rights are and make sure the
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government can't overreach like this again. Exactly. Uh, interestingly, I can report to
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you that, uh, about an hour ago, I wrapped up a hearing before the federal court on that very
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question. Um, we're going to have all our evidence in this week. We've got some tremendous experts,
00:16:03.380
medical experts, Dr. McCullough, Dr. Bridle and others, um, to help us demonstrate that there's
00:16:09.140
no proportionality here that the science now shows that it doesn't this whole idea that somehow by
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banning Canadians from getting on planes and traveling within our country or leaving our
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country and coming back into it, banning Canadians that are unvaccinated somehow makes Canadians safer
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is just patent nonsense, not supported by any evidence or science. And as purely as I think we
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all know, a punitive measure as part of prime minister Trudeau's insidious divisions, division,
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you know, politics by division. Um, so where we're at is over the next few months, there'll be the
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exchange of evidence. Um, we're trying to have the case heard this summer. Um, but the court's saying
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they're full and I have to believe that to be true. They're experiencing lots of challenge charter
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challenges right now. This is the federal court. Uh, but we will get it to the court as soon as
00:17:02.820
possible. Uh, all of the council are committed to that and it won't matter if the travel bans lifted
00:17:09.300
because the court needs to rule on this. The court needs to be clear about whether or not
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our charter rights mean anything and whether at the whim of the federal minister of transport
00:17:22.900
or the federal minister of health or other government officials, they can simply decide
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that for the sake of our safety, uh, in their sole discretion that our charter rights can be overridden.
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So the court needs to rule on this. Um, and we're going to continue to pursue it, uh, to have a ruling
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regardless of whether at some point, uh, the prime minister decides to drop his vindictive policy.
00:17:49.940
Yeah. Well, and it is very just important to establish these things. I mean, whether people
00:17:55.860
want to face it or not, this isn't going to be our last pandemic. This isn't going to be the last
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national emergency of any sort we might encounter. And we need to have some pretty clear cut lines on
00:18:05.060
what citizens rights are going to be in those extraordinary circumstances. Cause, uh, we, we
00:18:08.980
didn't properly recognize them this time around. I mean, section one of the charter in my view was,
00:18:12.740
was terribly abused, uh, for the intent of what that was supposed to be about. So I appreciate what you
00:18:17.940
have been doing. I mean, like I said, you've got your hands full, you and the JCCF, where can people
00:18:21.860
find more information on what you're doing and help support you to, you know, keep up these challenges
00:18:25.780
and, and, uh, you know, defending some of those people who have been, uh, charged for taking part
00:18:30.340
in the protest. Sure. And, uh, we could sure use help because, uh, there's, there's several lawyers,
00:18:36.100
not just myself. Uh, I'm, I'm very fortunate to have, uh, two different teams of lawyers. Uh, one team on the,
00:18:42.340
uh, Premier Peckford's a challenge, uh, for the travel mandates, as well as, uh, another team,
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um, uh, with the several legal issues that we're dealing with for the Freedom Convoy.
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Um, the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, this is what they're about. They're about, uh,
00:19:00.420
taking on cases to try and ensure that Canadians charter rights are respected. Uh, if you go to their
00:19:06.980
website, the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms website, you can donate and you can also decide,
00:19:12.820
which particular, um, charter or constitutional case you want to support and you can direct your
00:19:19.940
support. And because it's a registered charity, you also can receive a charitable receipt that can
00:19:25.220
help you at tax time. So, uh, um, I'm working at very significantly reduced hourly rates because
00:19:32.660
this is not just important for me. It's very important for my family and my children. Uh, so I'm
00:19:39.060
donating significantly to it and I'm happy to do that. And, uh, we could certainly use, uh, the
00:19:45.140
support so that we can bring the horsepower that we need to run all of these cases right through to
00:19:49.700
the Supreme Court of Canada, because that's what we need. You know, interesting, Corey, one of the
00:19:53.860
things that the truckers have been calling for is a public inquiry that we need to have a public
00:20:00.020
inquiry into governments provincially and federally handling of COVID. You know, what did they get
00:20:07.460
right and what did they get wrong? What are the lessons learned? Because as you note, if it's just
00:20:14.180
the mere notion of a crisis self-declared by government, then our rights are nothing
00:20:19.620
and we're not living in a free country. So we really need to get to the bottom of what happened
00:20:24.180
so that we can hopefully learn from it and get back to the Canada we once had where rights were
00:20:30.020
respected and government considered itself having limits on how it could interfere with our lives
00:20:35.380
and our families. So, uh, we're trying to do important work at the justice center and, uh,
00:20:40.900
support is very welcome. Great. Well, yeah, if, if nothing else, let's hope we learn something from
00:20:46.660
this. So, uh, thank you for taking the time to talk with us today and, uh, for the work you've been
00:20:51.460
doing so far. I hope we get the chance again to talk soon and maybe start talking about some of
00:20:54.740
those legal victories you'll be having. Yeah. I'm happy to talk to you more now that
00:20:58.740
things are slowing it down a little bit and I'm back, back, uh, back in Alberta. So thanks for
00:21:02.900
having me on. I really appreciate it. All right. Thank you, Mr. Wilson. Thank you, sir.