In this episode of Triggered, host Corey Morgan is joined by Keith Wilson, the lawyer for the Freedom Convoy, and former Alberta cabinet minister Don Kennedy-Glans to talk about the recent protests in the streets of Canada and the need for energy security.
00:18:03.200Very good. I'm glad we could corner you today. I know you've had a hectic couple of months going on.
00:18:09.060Yes, it's been the adventure of a lifetime, for sure. 19 days on the ground in Ottawa.
00:18:17.200Very long days. It would be a couple of movies to tell you all the things that happened and what we were dealing with on the ground.
00:18:25.620I'm very happy I was there. And then in addition to that, as you know, because the same time I was flying to Ottawa,
00:18:31.540was scheduled to be on your show to talk about the other charter challenge i'm involved in which
00:18:35.780is representing a former premier peckford uh and challenging the travel mandates yeah no you've
00:18:43.060had a lot on the go so maybe i want to clarify because you've just kind of been all over the
00:18:46.340place are you still then active in representing some of the the convoy organizers or the convoy
00:18:50.660itself yes uh in fact there's a court application going ahead this afternoon in ontario relating to
00:18:57.300some of the donated funds. Earlier this week we were focused on getting Tamara Leach out of jail0.80
00:19:05.460because remarkably she was jailed for longer than most people would be for serious crimes.
00:19:16.020It's been hard to believe many of the things that Canadians have had to witness
00:19:21.460in the past weeks let alone in the past two years.
00:19:25.020It's been infuriating. I mean, I won't pretend to know Tamara well, but we've had communications0.97
00:19:30.200over the years. She's another political minded person in Alberta over a period of time. This
00:19:34.740is not some dangerous or crazed or unstable person by any means. She was never going to put
00:19:39.800anybody at any sort of risk. And it was just infuriating to know that she was being incarcerated
00:19:46.440like that without a chance for bail when so many more dangerous people, unfortunately,
00:19:51.360get released quite quickly well i mean she i think she's sort of the paradigm average concerned
00:19:59.360honest canadian you know she saw what's happening to her country she's a mother she's a grandmother
00:20:07.120and she became involved in the freedom convoy she had this idea that maybe she could generate four
00:20:15.280to five thousand dollars in donations set up the gofundme never in her wildest dreams did she
00:20:22.480think it would hit 10 million um and then of course we arrived myself and some other lawyers
00:20:30.240i'm on contract to the justice center for constitutional freedoms and we arrived on
00:20:35.840february 2nd um just as gofundme was starting to clamp things down so that was one of the first
00:20:42.720task we had to deal with on the ground was a deal with GoFundMe. And then on the Friday,
00:20:46.560they pulled the surprise and decided that it was an improper fundraiser and that they were
00:20:51.520effectively going to redirect the money to another group. And we can only use our imagination to
00:20:56.720imagine what group that would have been. And then events just were continuing to transpire from
00:21:03.360there. So what we're seeing now, I mean, I've characterized it though as a witch hunt. I mean,
00:21:08.240they're far from finished. They seem to be quite determined, the government and some members to
00:21:12.240really just chase down and punish anybody who is remotely supportive of this action in the last
00:21:17.680month. I'm just kind of curious though I understand it's an absolute right for a person to have
00:21:22.720counsel and an attorney represent them but I mean our rights seem to be sort of fluid things these
00:21:27.760days. Have you as a lawyer has the JCCF gotten any pressure because you guys have been at least
00:21:33.760legally supportive of the convoy organizers? Well, it's been uncertain, you know, and
00:21:42.160there were times when I was on the ground and acting as a liaison with the police,
00:21:47.840both the city police, the Ottawa city police and the OPP. And especially when the raid started,
00:21:57.120you know, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility that I was going to find myself
00:22:01.920arrested just because so many of the rules are out the window right now it's very difficult as
00:22:07.280a lawyer to give advice because you know i would get the question from the truckers well even the
00:22:12.320uh all of them who had their bank accounts frozen like think about that what that meant and these
00:22:18.400you know i've been watching the house of commons committees dealing with this and the level of
00:22:24.080misinformation or completely inaccurate information is startling uh there was testimony earlier this
00:22:30.400week that the rcmp had contacted each of these people before they froze their bank accounts that
00:22:37.120is simply not true these people found out that their bank accounts were frozen by getting phone
00:22:43.200calls from spouses saying hey i can't pay for the daycare or i just went to pay for the dentist or
00:22:50.080i can't get groceries or the credit card doesn't work you know um and and think about that these
00:22:57.680people it just it was we quickly concluded working with the nine that i had that had their bank
00:23:05.360accounts frozen that they would have been better off in jail the reason they would have been better
00:23:10.160off is their spouse's paycheck went into that black box they could not pay for anything they
00:23:17.200couldn't pay for their mortgage they couldn't get fuel they were stuck you know to think that that
00:23:22.960happened in canada not china not venezuela but canada um is is still still shocking oh it's
00:23:35.920horrible and yeah i mean people gotta think about that my wife and i have joint accounts things like0.98
00:23:39.840that maybe i'd pull a stunt that jane might not agree with and suddenly our accounts frozen well
00:23:43.600she's getting punished for something she had absolutely nothing to do with i mean again even
00:23:48.320if it was a sole account we've got some issues here on on why you know my accounts should be
00:23:51.920frozen, but the blanket punitive approach this government has taken on this has been horrific.
00:23:59.140Have they started lifting the holds on some of these accounts at least yet?
00:24:03.080Yeah, they did. Some of them are lifted. The individuals for the most part have been lifted.
00:24:10.500And if I could, Corey, just to step back, because you can imagine I've had to reflect on
00:24:16.080What's going on here? Why did this happen? And I honestly think that what happened is the government just cannot, those in power, so the prime minister and those around him, just could not accept the notion that a large number of Canadians fundamentally disagree with what the government's been doing.
00:24:42.160that a large number of reasonable Canadians of all ethnic backgrounds and all skin colors
00:24:51.200disagree and are deeply troubled about government overreach to the point where this convoy took on
00:24:59.040such size and scale and spontaneity and the donations that it bothered Trudeau and others so
00:25:10.400much that he was prepared to use everything everything in his arsenal jailing people and
00:25:21.360if you've seen the videos beating sending the goons in to beat people canadians up who are at
00:25:26.860the protests um seizing and freezing them out of life and the economy through their bank accounts
00:25:34.380um the the the the notion that canadians would stand up to the government is something that
00:25:42.580trudeau obviously finds both so repulsive and threatening at the same time that he was prepared
00:25:50.060to invoke the emergencies act for the first time in its existence and and i really think that's
00:25:56.660what went on here um and it's deeply troubling because the ability to criticize government the
00:26:01.800ability to ridicule government is fundamental i advise my clients at one point just start
00:26:07.140practicing what they do in north korea wake up every morning and say oh dear leader trudeau you
00:26:11.880are the greatest and cry for him you know maybe he'll have some mercy for you i'm being sarcastic
00:26:17.060but it's it's serious because there's been no repercussions for the government for doing this
00:26:23.140what incentive do they have not to do it again what disincentive do they have so
00:26:28.260there's a journey ahead and the fight's not over and I think more and more Canadians need to
00:26:35.720ask some serious questions about the conduct of their government and the direction that it's
00:26:40.060taking the country. Yeah well the concentration of power in the Prime Minister's office I mean
00:26:44.840to think that and a lot of people I think agree I mean there were Liberal members even who didn't
00:26:49.080support the bringing in the Emergencies Act and obviously didn't last very long because they
00:26:52.640realized it wasn't going to withstand very long if they tried to keep it in there
00:26:56.560But still, one man with, you know, a chip on his shoulder and a minority government could still bring that in and manage to do things like seize people's accounts and press people into labor.
00:27:07.820I mean, these are the little things people forget, too.
00:27:22.340and you know even the I think the reason why they backed off on the emergency act was actually from
00:27:33.060the banking community the speed and zeal with which the bank seized people's accounts that
00:27:41.680they didn't do any due diligence and I know that because I have the actual RCMP document that
00:27:47.080listed all the people and I saw the evidence. It's shocking. The first 12 people whose bank
00:27:56.000accounts were seized, the evidentiary basis, the link is to CTV's who's who in the freedom
00:28:03.900convoy movement. Like this RCMP officer didn't even leave his chair to do this investigation.
00:28:11.760He could have sat there chewing on donuts and drinking coffee and just cutting and pasting.
00:28:16.420It was pathetic. In any event, that's all it took for the banks to do to take the most radical action they can take against the customer. And when the deputy prime minister started saying, oh, and we're going to look at going after the donors, which is over 200,000 average Canadians with an average donation amount of $35.
00:28:40.300dollars and when the Ottawa acting police chief got all bombastic on camera and started talking
00:28:49.260about how we're going to thoroughly investigate everyone including the donors and go after them
00:28:54.540that caused a lot of people to go down to their banks and take money out which created if you
00:29:00.140research it you'll see there was actually a run on the banks caused people to start opening
00:29:05.820bank accounts at credit unions because of it they lost their confidence in the chartered banks and
00:29:11.580caused others more broadly in the investment community i'm told from good sources to say
00:29:17.260wait a minute what kind of country is this is this a rule of law or banana republic and we
00:29:22.860know which direction this prime minister has taken us so it wasn't the threat of losing a vote in the
00:29:28.140senate i'm told it was the pushback from the international finance community and the big banks
00:29:35.820And realizing that they probably were a little too enthusiastic in going along with the government that actually caused both them to lift the freezes on the personal accounts, as well as to discontinue the Emergencies Act proclamation.
00:29:49.880So you've got a whole lot of irons in the fire now. I mean, it's great to know Tamara Leach at1.00
00:29:56.840least is at home now, you know, to await following through and then trial, I would imagine and things
00:30:02.840such as that, which could be a long process, but she's still facing some, I mean, they call it
00:30:07.300counsel to commit mischief, but there could be some very serious penalties as light as the charges
00:30:11.540sound. She's facing some very possible long jail terms. Well, I don't think she is. And I'm
00:30:19.860appreciate that that on its face you know you read the criminal code it's like anything you
00:30:23.540can look at the maximum fine or the maximum penalty and become concerned um the the government
00:30:32.040and the politicians and um the city officials the police they just never got their head around
00:30:40.520basic things you know so one of the issues was the injunction against honking horns
00:30:46.100Tamara Leach has never owned a semi-truck she doesn't own a semi-truck she doesn't have an
00:30:53.980air horn most of the people listed in some of these legal proceedings don't own trucks
00:31:02.140there's this sort of narrative that the government created and is acting out on it despite the
00:31:11.340evidence of what really happened on the ground but what's more concerning for me with respect
00:31:16.700to the government conduct and the actions they've taken against Tamara is if you if you have have a
00:31:23.460chance to review the bail conditions it would make Putin envious and I mean that seriously
00:31:29.740she is not allowed to criticize the government she is not allowed to criticize or speak against
00:31:37.560covid 19 restrictions or do anything in support of the freedom movement she's not allowed to be
00:31:44.120on social media she's not allowed to directly or indirectly communicate or support with anybody in
00:31:49.640those things even putin's strongest critic who's in jail valavi uh this week from jail called on
00:31:59.000russians to protest in the street tamara can't even say that as a canadian uh uh apparently according0.99
00:32:06.120to Trudeau, on Tuesday, Villani assisted the Canadian government in identifying 10 oligarchs
00:32:12.400that could be added to the sanctions list. Tamara can't do that in Canada. It's remarkable1.00
00:32:18.000that in Canada, our government is so afraid of Tamara that they have placed this unprecedented
00:32:28.520gag order on her. And just so we're clear, she's not home yet. The Crown prosecutor during one of
00:32:35.720bail hearing said well why are you driving home why don't you fly commercial and i'm like are you
00:32:43.240kidding me there's a travel ban because the canadian government won't let her get on a plane0.99
00:32:50.920so it's been you know it's it's been exasperating the nonsense here but it's serious and um
00:33:00.120those bail conditions are going to be appealed they're outrageous they violate so first her0.83
00:33:05.880right to travel and mobility has been violated now her right of association freedom of expression
00:33:11.880etc is being violated um we've got to keep fighting for our charter it's there for a reason
00:33:20.520and um but it's a serious time we're in so yeah getting back to the the higher level of things
00:33:27.400and this happened prior to you going to Ottawa. You'd already gotten involved with Brian Peckford
00:33:31.880in bringing forth a charter challenge. How is that moving along? I mean, what sort of timelines are
00:33:37.160we looking at? I mean, the pandemic restrictions and everything may all be over by the time this
00:33:41.160gets to the courts, but it's still very important that we establish what our rights are and make
00:33:46.600sure the government can't overreach like this again. Exactly. Interestingly, I can report to
00:33:52.040you that about an hour ago i wrapped up a hearing before the federal court on that very question
00:33:58.920we're going to have all our evidence in this week we've got some tremendous experts
00:34:03.240medical experts dr mccullough dr bridle and others to help us demonstrate that there's
00:34:09.000no proportionality here that the science now shows that it doesn't this whole idea that somehow by
00:34:16.600banning canadians from getting on planes and traveling within our country or leaving our
00:34:21.560country and coming back into it banning canadians that are unvaccinated somehow makes canadians
00:34:27.160safer is just patent nonsense not supported by any evidence or science and as purely as i think
00:34:33.240we all know a punitive measure as part of prime minister trudeau's insidious divisions division
00:34:39.480you know politics by division um so where we're at is over the next few months there'll be the
00:34:46.200exchange of evidence we're trying to have the case heard this summer but the court's saying
00:34:53.320they're full and i have to believe that to be true they're experiencing lots of challenge
00:34:57.640charter challenges right now this is the federal court but we will get it to the court as soon as
00:35:02.680possible all of the council are committed to that and it won't matter if the travel bans lifted
00:35:09.160because the court needs to rule on this the court needs to be clear about whether or not
00:35:15.560our charter rights mean anything and whether at the whim of the federal minister of transport
00:35:22.760or the federal minister of health or other government officials they can simply decide
00:35:28.760that for the sake of our safety in their sole discretion that our charter rights can be
00:35:35.880overridden so the court needs to rule on this and we're going to continue to pursue it to have a
00:35:43.480ruling regardless of whether at some point uh the prime minister decides to drop his vindictive
00:35:49.280policy yeah well and it is very just important to establish these things i mean whether people
00:35:55.840want to face it or not this isn't going to be our last pandemic this isn't going to be the last
00:35:59.760national emergency of any sort we might encounter and we need to have some pretty clear-cut lines
00:36:04.920on what citizens rights are going to be in those extraordinary circumstances because uh we didn't
00:36:09.220properly recognize them this time around i mean section one of the charter in my view was terribly
00:36:13.160abused uh for the intent of what that was supposed to be about so i appreciate what you have been
00:36:18.040doing i mean like i said you've got your hands full you and the jccf where can people find more
00:36:22.120information on what you're doing and help support you to you know keep up these challenges and and
00:36:26.360you know defending some of those people who have been charged for taking part in the protest sure
00:36:31.720and uh we could sure use help because uh there's there's several lawyers not just myself i'm very
00:36:38.040fortunate to have two different teams of lawyers one team on the premier peckford's challenge
00:36:45.080for the travel mandates as well as another team with the several legal issues that we're dealing
00:36:52.280with for the freedom convoy the justice center for constitutional freedoms this is what they're
00:36:58.360about they're about taking on cases to try and ensure that canadians charter rights are respected
00:37:05.400If you go to their website, the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedom's website, you can donate and you can also decide which particular charter or constitutional case you want to support and you can direct your support.
00:37:20.680And because it's a registered charity, you also can receive a charitable receipt that can help you with tax time.
00:37:26.200so I'm working at very significantly reduced hourly rates because this is not just important
00:37:34.000for me it's very important for my family and my children so I'm donating significantly to it and
00:37:41.140I'm happy to do that and we could certainly use the support so that we can bring the horsepower
00:37:46.800that we need to run all of these cases right through to the Supreme Court of Canada because
00:37:51.220that's what we need you know interesting Corey one of the things that the truckers have been
00:37:54.820calling for is a public inquiry that we need to have a public inquiry into governments provincially
00:38:03.700and federally handling of covid you know what did they get right and what did they get wrong
00:38:09.300what are the lessons learned because as you note if it's just the mere notion of a crisis
00:38:16.260self-declared by government then our rights are nothing and we're not living in a free country
00:38:21.620So we really need to get to the bottom of what happened so that we can hopefully learn from it
00:38:26.820and get back to the Canada we once had where rights were respected and government considered
00:38:31.880itself having limits on how it could interfere with our lives and our families. So we're trying
00:38:38.020to do important work at the Justice Centre and support is very welcome. Great. Well, yeah,
00:38:44.380if nothing else, let's hope we learned something from this. So thank you for taking the time to
00:38:49.120talk with us today and for the work you've been doing so far. I hope we get the chance again to
00:38:53.140talk soon and maybe start talking about some of those legal victories you'll be having.
00:38:56.800Yeah, I'm happy to talk to you more now that things are slowing down a little bit and I'm
00:39:00.420back in Alberta. So thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.
00:40:14.820So just to put it in a nutshell, I guess during the last AGM for the UCP, I mean, there were some contentious things.
00:40:22.760There were some party constitutional changes being proposed, some things about leadership reviews and, of course, electing the executive members of it.
00:40:30.800And there's a lot of internal push and pull going on within the UCP right now.
00:40:35.000It sounds like perhaps the premier's office kind of got may have gotten inappropriately involved in trying to swing some of the votes there.
00:40:43.000Yeah, what happened is, of course, is the last November when the AGM was going on, leading up to it, we seen a story from Don Braid in the Calgary Herald where it was mentioned that he'd received an email that a business leader had received a call from somebody, a senior staff in the Premier's office and asking that business to be able to bring people to the AGM to help support Jason Kenney and help get the board that he wants on.
00:41:11.620and those sorts of things so you know that was uh kind of alarming enough but the the email went on
00:41:17.780to say that they were hoping that this business was hoping that they could maybe leverage this
00:41:22.180action into you know some benefit to the company down the road and of course there's nothing wrong
00:41:26.900with like i guess with the company uh you know having that phone call come to them but but it's
00:41:32.980definitely an issue when somebody from the premier's office contacts a company and basically
00:41:38.100asks a favor. And being in a position of power, somebody in the Premier's office, that leads to
00:41:45.620the allegations of influence peddling, which of course is a serious crime.
00:41:50.840Yeah, we've definitely got some strong checks and balances against that. So
00:41:54.380you put a formal letter forward to the RCMP to have them have a look at it, and they came in to
00:41:59.640sit down and talk with you the other day? Yeah, no, they wanted to interview with me. I give them
00:42:05.080a 45 minute interview at the RCMP station here in Edmonton. And the serious crimes division is
00:42:13.120who is looking into this right now. And so I was able to give them as much information as I had.
00:42:18.180And we'll see where it goes from there. I hope that the RCMP does investigate this. And
00:42:22.520I think if there's any wrongdoing there, it needs to be exposed and it needs to be stomped out.
00:42:27.680Yeah. I mean, is there any idea of what the timeline might be? I mean, it's hard for them,
00:42:32.120I guess, you know, when you're digging into records, you're getting affidavits, things like
00:42:35.080that, if you're taking it seriously. I mean, we also know, and it's not the RCMP's place to work
00:42:39.820within political timelines, but there is a leadership review coming up on April 9th,
00:42:44.160and we may actually have a new premier in the very near future or not. Do you think any of that
00:42:49.740might be resolved within a month? You know, it's really hard to say. The RCMP officer did say that
00:42:55.860this would take some time, and I understand that. We want a fulsome investigation. We want to find
00:43:00.640the facts. We want to find out exactly what happened. And so, you know, whether it could
00:43:05.320be done in a, in a month's time, you know, hard to say for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Have you had
00:43:12.140any communication then with the premier's office? Like, did you ask them first, you know, before
00:43:16.940you went to the RCMP or did you, I believe you did raise it in question period recently. Have
00:43:22.520you gotten much response? Yeah, I did. I did raise it in question period. So I give them an
00:43:26.840opportunity to either deny or admit what went on. The answers to the questions were far from
00:43:35.660fulsome. There was no actual response to the actual questions. They did go on to try to
00:43:42.480discredit me and make allegations against me, but obviously that was just an opportunity to deflect
00:43:48.600from the real question at hand, which of course they didn't answer. Yeah, well, question period
00:43:53.560It has never traditionally been a good area to get answers contrary to its name.
00:43:57.340And it doesn't really matter which party is in power.
00:43:59.880Everybody can point the finger on how the government can obfuscate, you know, and avoid questions.
00:44:05.140But it is the place at least that you can get it out there and say you inquired.
00:44:08.820I just wanted to add that, you know, you didn't jump straight to the police.
00:44:18.740And, you know, we've done a little bit of investigation on ourselves as far as about the issue by ourselves, as far as what section of the criminal code that it could refer to.
00:44:28.900So we wanted to make sure that we had, you know, some information that we would present to the RCMP and make sure that they knew which direction to go and everything.
00:44:38.240And they know their business, obviously, they know which way to go to.
00:44:41.680But we did point out which sections of the criminal code would be possible violations.
00:44:47.240Yeah, well, we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of that and if anything serious
00:44:51.700happened. I mean, I kind of hope just for the sake of everybody that it didn't. We just don't
00:44:54.860need more criminal wrongdoings going on in places and we'll see what the evidence presents. So as
00:45:01.980one of the independent caucus kind of hiding in the corner of the legislature there while I got
00:45:06.860you, what other initiatives have you got on the go during this session right now?
00:45:10.540Well, myself, I just brought forward Bill 202, which is an amendment to the Alberta Health Act and bringing transparency and accountability to the Health Act.
00:45:23.700So we'll see how that goes. It's going to be reviewed by a committee in the legislature here, I guess, in the next eight days.
00:45:29.400But I was able to bring that forward and I'm looking forward to the discussions on that.
00:45:33.480I think there's a great opportunity to bring some differences there to the Health Act.
00:45:37.980and just kind of getting back to the last topic there you know we talked about the police
00:45:42.400investigation and how you know when it might take place we know that we're there's still the
00:45:46.480investigation going on from the 2017 leadership race and so I think we see a bit of a pattern
00:45:52.740here where there's when it comes to the premier and his partisan politics antics that that the
00:46:00.420investigation seemed to follow so so hopefully this one won't take that long to to sort out but
00:46:05.080I think it's worth pointing out that there is current investigations still going on from
00:46:09.840previous leadership race. Yeah, and it's a whole other can of worms to open and look into that.
00:46:16.840I mean, that's part of the concern is the investigation on that's been interminable.
00:46:20.060I mean, it's been going for years. I'm not sure at what point they're ever going to
00:46:23.140conclude something on that. We may actually not even have that person leading the party by the
00:46:27.500time they've figured that out. So hopefully we can get a little more timely response in this
00:46:32.080current inquiry. Yes, yes, for sure. Okay, well, great. I know your time is tight and
00:46:38.020legislature's in session lately. Where can people, you know, your constituents find more
00:46:42.640information about what you're up to and contact you if they need to? Yeah, obviously, Facebook is
00:46:47.360a good place to look. I usually post things on Facebook fairly regularly on my MLA Facebook page
00:46:52.920and they can reach out to my office too. The information's available online to be able to
00:46:58.180contact me. I have two offices, one in Fairview, one in Valleview, and of course the Edmonton
00:47:03.380office too. And I encourage anybody that wants to contact me on any issue. I'm happy to hear what
00:47:08.540Albertans have to think on any issues that affect them and their lives and look forward. That's how
00:47:14.320I learn is by listening. I've never learned anything while I was talking yet, so I'll continue
00:47:19.980to listen and listen to my constituents and people from across Alberta. Great. Well, I really
00:47:25.200appreciate you taking some time to talk to our listeners today and give us an update on what
00:47:29.120you're up to and why you uh you put that letter forward and have talked to the rcmp and uh well
00:47:33.420just keep up the good work hammering at it in there uh todd i appreciate it okay thanks for
00:47:38.960i appreciate it too and uh you guys have a good day and again appreciate the opportunity to be
00:47:42.440here great thanks i'm sure we'll talk again soon you bet all right so yeah that's todd lowen he's
00:47:47.520up in valleyview i i forgot to ask i should have you know which constituency that is but uh it is
00:47:52.560one of those northern ones just up from edmonton a few hours there and he's been there for quite
00:47:57.240some time todd's been a good uh dedicated conservative you know full disclosure i've
00:48:01.280known him for quite some time we were on the board with the old wild rose together and things like
00:48:04.720that and uh he's been been serving quite diligently up there from from that limited uh resources you
00:48:10.380have as an independent member in the legislature so but it's good to have somebody independent you
00:48:15.360know it's hard to be an independent because you you lack a lot of resources as a party member
00:48:19.480but you're certainly as unrestrained as you can be, you can just go into the issues that you feel
00:48:24.620are most important for your constituents. And that appears to be what Mr. Lowen's doing right now.
00:48:29.420So before I get on to our next guest with another, well, this is a former MLA Donna Kennedy-Glans,
00:48:35.280and she was also in cabinet, I believe, with the, correct, I read for government. I'm sure she'll
00:48:40.540let me know when she gets in here. And she's written a book recently, but I do want to talk
00:48:44.560briefly about one of our sponsors before we get there. And that is the Canada Shooting Sports
00:48:48.800Association. You guys have heard me talking about them before. Since we're on such a legal theme
00:48:53.380today, it's good to pop these guys up here anyways. These guys have got a number of court
00:48:57.640challenges out on behalf of firearm owners. Responsible, law-abiding firearm owners, as
00:49:03.080the vast majority of us who take part in firearm ownership do. They provide a lot of resources as
00:49:09.420well for target shooting, hunting, collecting whatever you want. They've got links to trade
00:49:14.880shows, things like that. They got videos on the safe, responsible use of firearms. And as I started
00:49:19.500with too, most importantly, they've got legal challenges out there, making sure you can keep
00:49:23.560and maintain that right and ability to responsibly enjoy firearms. Because we've got a federal
00:49:27.920government that just seems quite determined to take that right away. And it's constantly
00:49:32.220under pressure. They're constantly illegalizing past firearms and saying that you shouldn't be
00:49:38.000allowed to own them. Well, the Canada Shooting Sports Association is standing up for you in that
00:49:42.000front and they have those court challenges out there, but they need you, of course, to help with
00:49:47.800them. Go on there, check them out, cssa-cila.org, or just Google Canadian Shooting Sports Association
00:49:55.580and take out a membership with them because that way they get more resources, they can bring those
00:50:00.920challenges forward. And you'll also see they got all those great resources to help you enjoy your
00:50:04.700firearms fully and safely as you already have been. Okay, so let's bring Mrs. Kennedy Glanz
00:50:12.160into the studio virtually here and have a talk about her new book. Hey, how's it going?
00:52:26.280Well, I think we have to be more creative.
00:52:28.680when we saw that through the pandemic where we saw communities coming together with for-profit
00:52:34.360companies coming together with government agencies because there were just no other options and so
00:52:39.240people did things that they would not historically have naturally done and they tested new ideas and
00:52:45.240and some of them worked and some of them didn't and we learned a lot so i think we have to build
00:52:49.640from that and now we're in this horrible situation in ukraine where you know i've been in the oil
00:52:55.560sector energy sector for 30 years and it's pretty unusual to see these kinds of embargoes on this
00:53:03.000volume of hydrocarbon and and the you know the reaction of people who are really strong climate
00:53:10.920change advocates to the notion that we're going to have to find more oil and gas to fill some of
00:53:17.320these gaps it's it's you know untenable for them but we have to be practical we have to figure out
00:53:23.960pathways forward that aren't either or answers. And they're requiring different players coming to
00:53:29.860the table doing things that they traditionally have not done. Can you imagine right now being,
00:53:34.920you know, inside the management team, leadership team of a company that's just pulled all of your
00:53:41.580operations out of out of Russia? I mean, some of those big players, BP, $25 billion. That's a lot
00:53:49.480money that's a lot of money for a super major that's these are big big decisions and they have
00:53:55.000to make them so that's what this book is about is the status quo is finished like we can't go back
00:54:01.640to the way things were we have to test new ideas you can't kind of turtle and huddle and say i'm
00:54:08.120just gonna wait till this all changes and goes back to the way it was before because that's not
00:54:11.720going to happen so what do you do and people are nervous there are lots lots of things changing
00:54:17.560out there feels like lots of asteroids are coming at us um we have to figure out which of the
00:54:23.560asteroids coming at us are ones that are really important for us to pay attention to and at the
00:54:29.320same time stay true to who we are as an organization because you cannot just you know one day be this
00:54:35.800and the next day be that it just doesn't hold so that's what the book is about and it's about
00:54:40.600leadership how do you lead through that yeah well we got some modern realities in in capitalism and
00:54:46.360business now that a lot of us perhaps chief under but the realities that we have to face and then
00:54:50.440one of your portions you talk about is self-censorship cancel culture you know these are some
00:54:54.680some hot button issues inclusive lists inclusiveness checklists you talk about
00:54:59.240uh we're talking about engaging stakeholders who even oppose your enterprise's goals uh
00:55:05.160i mean as frustrating as that is these are things you need to do you can't avoid it you can't hide
00:55:09.160from it in today's culture so you offer advice i guess on how you can model yourself towards
00:55:15.080meeting those goals, I guess, without losing the goal of your business in the first place?
00:55:19.720Some people call that stakeholder capitalism, which I think is actually a bit of a distraction.
00:55:25.860I think it's a bit simpler than that. I mean, I don't want stakeholders running my business.
00:55:31.860If you're the leader of a business, you're the person who makes the decisions and you're
00:55:36.240accountable for those decisions and you better be smart about it. But I think there is a lot
00:55:41.800of merit in going out to not just people that think like you, the like-minded, or even people
00:55:47.940who are open-minded to what your ideas are, but people who might be critical of what you're doing
00:55:54.060and in some cases even oppose it. I think it's worth your while as an enterprise to figure out
00:56:01.120what those people are thinking, why they think what they think. You don't have to agree with
00:56:05.700them. And I think that's something we don't do particularly well in Alberta. And your earlier
00:56:11.880guest, Todd, alluded to that. You know, what do we do with dissent? Sometimes we just ignore it,
00:56:18.920but we do so at our peril. If we want better information and we want to know what we're up
00:56:25.180against, who's going to maybe stand in our way of what we want, it's usually much better to
00:56:32.040understand that and understand why they have the pull the position that they do rather than just
00:56:37.960writing them off or ignoring them and and having things blow up later and that goes for you know
00:56:43.480relationships on boards it goes for businesses trying to figure out what customers truly want
00:56:49.560lego i i don't you know my kids love lego we still have lego all you know strewn throughout the
00:56:56.440drawers of this house um you know my kids are grown up but lego goes out to the kids and says
00:57:03.960to them what do you want us to do you know they came out with a series of lego that are all
00:57:09.720different colors of the lgbtq community i mean they they invite their customers to tell them
00:57:17.800what to build that's creative and it's smart business i mean it's it's it's a sound business
00:57:23.480practice so the book talks about why to do that and how to do that and it's not comfortable space
00:57:29.960for everybody so who in your organization is best suited to do this and what kind of skills do you
00:57:36.360need and what kind of leadership skills do you need to to think that differently so it's uh
00:57:42.200that's it's a how-to book and a why-to book yeah well as well yeah what todd said is you know you
00:57:49.480don't learn anything while your mouth's open uh you only learn when you're listening and uh it is
00:57:55.560something that's counterintuitive to a lot of us you know stubborn outspoken people like me
00:57:59.640that's not something i like to do but as uh you said listening to the ones even if they don't like
00:58:04.280you i mean i'll use an example that a lot of our viewers though can relate with i think that prime
00:58:08.440minister trudeau could have avoided a whole lot of the grief for the last couple of months if he'd
00:58:13.000actually started respectfully listening to the protesters in the early stages of it before it
00:58:18.440snowballed into such a massive thing with with their heels dug in on each side that it turned
00:58:22.280into that catastrophe if he could have even just entertained as you said even if he's not the one
00:58:26.280we'll send a senior minister to to just engage them you could have totally agree with you yeah
00:58:32.680it's a just because you've shut somebody up doesn't mean you've changed their opinion and i i think
00:58:37.640that was it just purely from a respect perspective and i am everyone's prime minister perspective
00:58:45.720because he is he is representing every one of us and that's really worrisome you you can't just
00:58:51.960negate uh strong voices uh in a community because you don't agree with them so i've i've taken a
00:58:58.840little bit of of you know this is serious stuff people are really stressed i'm empathetic to that
00:59:04.360i think we can't be you know we have to be empathetic but at the same time we have to say
00:59:09.000to people you're responsible to lead your organization whether it's government or
00:59:13.800non-profit or for-profit so how are you going to do that so what i've taken to corey is is using
00:59:20.360this dinosaur and this dinosaur is is rex and i do these tick tock um skits with rex very short 60
00:59:29.560second you know minute and a half where i'll pretend that rex is one of the dinosaurs that i've
00:59:34.440encounter and and he he yaps at me and then i kind of talk through with with this rex what you know
00:59:41.720what other ways there might be to to tackle an issue and it's ridiculous that a 61 year old
00:59:47.640woman is playing with puppets on tiktok but it is really important for us to to kind of
00:59:53.480let ourselves play a little give ourselves permission to think differently and and just
00:59:59.720you know we're really serious these are really tricky serious painful times and we just have
01:00:05.320to sometimes give ourselves some slack and and this is my way of doing it so i'll introduce
01:00:10.920your viewers to rex oh yeah well we all need to lighten up now and then it doesn't always have to
01:00:16.440be dead serious i like posting some of my older pictures of me with my long hair to show that i
01:00:20.520wasn't always as uptight as i am now but uh and i mean the dinosaur i i could see you know the
01:00:26.520symbolism you're using i mean it's outdated things have changed and and uh this will always be the
01:00:32.520way it is as we as we get older we get stuck in our ways and we can't flex but i mean the
01:00:37.080world is changing and fast thanks to social media and things like that uh so i mean you talk also
01:00:44.040i see one of your things on on hail mary attempts like you know corporate social responsibility
01:00:48.120initiatives but i don't think it backfire i mean do you mean if it's a disingenuine initiative or
01:00:52.600just poorly thought out i mean sometimes they do response with you know the terms virtue signaling
01:00:56.920but if it's hollow and shallow it's going to look worse than if they've done nothing at all
01:01:00.680I agree, Corey. I was involved in corporate social responsibility at its genesis in the 1980s. Like, that's a long time ago. In those days, we didn't even talk about environmental sustainability. So it was the idea of doing something beyond what was required by law was pretty unusual.
01:01:21.780and often in the early days those initiatives corporate social responsibility initiatives were
01:01:28.560not funded they were just it was optics and it was known to be optics and it was usually given
01:01:34.660to somebody who was very junior and had no decision making power at the table today ESG
01:01:40.840as it's now called is more serious because it's tied to finances so it's you're not going to get
01:01:47.660money from this financial institution unless you do these things and this is how we're measuring
01:01:52.380it so it's got more teeth but it's it's what I keep talking about to to enterprises saying it's
01:02:00.100up to you to decide as an enterprise what your values are there are some businesses out there
01:02:06.160who are perfectly comfortable complying with law that is how they operate and I'm not judging that
01:02:14.040That's their choice, not mine. As long as they comply with rules and laws, that's fine. That's
01:02:20.440the way you run your business. But if you say that you're going to go beyond compliance and
01:02:25.480you want to be part of the solution in the world's problems, and then something like Russia attacks0.79
01:02:31.640Ukraine, you're going to be called on to be accountable to those values. And so does that
01:02:37.240mean you leave Russia? Well, in a lot of cases, it does. And we've seen some pretty significant0.90
01:02:42.920exits from Russia as a result of those decisions but it's not crystal clear what those strategies
01:02:50.120will be and there's nuance a lot of nuance it's far easier if you have the conversations ahead
01:02:57.080of time and really have a good handle and everybody in your organization shareholders
01:03:02.280your employees your customers communities where you operate government partners they need to
01:03:08.040understand what your values are you need to be clear what does what does that mean what does
01:03:13.800that look like if we're saying we're going to be socially accountable what does that mean if we say
01:03:20.120we're going to be stewards of water that's huge commitment and we hear oil companies saying that
01:03:25.800quite a bit what does that actually look like what accountability is there so it's just being really
01:03:33.000clear about your values and and i don't think there's much time anymore for pr people are
01:03:38.760calling it out left right and center it's very obvious when somebody's sincere and they're not
01:03:44.040sincere um and i i think employees are pushing those buttons a lot more now too so well how do
01:03:51.720you do it yeah well we've got some companies now some of the big ones that are usually big slow
01:03:56.600turning ships but they suddenly have to pivot as you said bp had a lot of russian interests over
01:04:01.160there uh it's an integrated world market when it comes to energy so some of these companies now
01:04:06.280they are being pressured by uh local sources or or even media or you name it like myself ranting
01:04:11.560at them saying well get on it let's develop our stuff get it to market this is the time the prices
01:04:16.120are high the people need it but we also know that of course uh the uh ng the engos and a lot of
01:04:22.600those are cringing because they know that uh this is a point where the the companies are feeling
01:04:26.680that they could perhaps uh just push through uh without regulation uh doing that balancing act i
01:04:32.760mean these companies want to make sure they don't do scorched earth on the way in but they do want
01:04:35.640to take advantage of this uh opportunity then to expand their their domestic holdings uh you think
01:04:40.760they'll be able to manage that it's a complex question and i keep saying what i keep saying
01:04:45.880in this space because because it's it's a really polarizing question that you've just pitched there
01:04:52.680Corey. And I think we can hardly stand any more polarization on the climate change file. It's
01:04:58.840polarized so badly already. Let's not add fuel to that fire. So when people talk about that,
01:05:06.200you know, we need to move to renewables. Well, you cannot rely on renewables. Europe knows that.
01:05:14.440I mean, Europe is very green. And yet at Christmas time, year end, they decided that natural gas
01:05:20.760and nuclear energy would qualify as green in their financial rules. That was a huge sign.
01:05:29.960Why in Canada we haven't figured out how to export LNG is still beyond me. The fact that
01:05:36.280the German, you know, leadership is asking our Prime Minister, please, you know, do you guys
01:05:42.600have gas? You have natural gas that could be exported. We do have natural gas that could be
01:05:49.160exported australia has fewer proven natural gas reserves and exports lng it we made an ideological
01:05:57.720decision it was made for us in ottawa and now people are opening up that door again and i think
01:06:04.520those are valid conversations i think it's really strange and i've asked this question out loud
01:06:11.160why is biden going to saudi and venezuela and iran to ask for help right now where is the
01:06:18.600convert the public conversation with canada you know does he see our prime minister as somebody
01:06:24.440who is just so opposed to climb anything that would you know compromise climate change that
01:06:30.920we won't have that conversation that's a public conversation that needs to be had or and this is
01:06:38.360a bit cynical but or is it that the united states just assumes we're going to be here and that they
01:06:44.360can tap into the oil sands anytime they need to and they don't need to worry about you know asking
01:06:49.960us that's a bit cynical but i think there's enough there to warrant that uh comment or question so
01:06:59.160how do you reconcile the need to continue with renewables and the need to deal with this huge
01:07:04.280hole that we've got because of the ban on russian crude oil imports and natural gas
01:07:10.440i i think we need both end and i just i'm a big fan of both and thinking and i really get upset
01:07:17.160when i see us going to one end of that spectrum or the other is if the answer can be found there
01:07:23.560because it can't we can't practically do it no and we just got to start thinking differently i
01:07:29.560mean as frustrating as it is it's been between government it's been between industry uh i of
01:07:34.680course have been most critical of government but industry has failed to convince government to let
01:07:38.440them get their stuff to tidewater to let them reduce these regulations uh and the government
01:07:44.040has held them up on that front now we've got the need now is the opportunity uh but they're gonna
01:07:49.560have to be you know let's make the opportunity long i mean we've got an ideologically driven
01:07:53.240government that you know once once the price goes down they might just clamp right back down and
01:07:57.080shut everybody down again so that's it's a lot of businesses are really going to evaluate their
01:08:01.560plans right now it's tricky and i i've been watching a lot of the um the decision makers the
01:08:07.240shale operators in the states the pushback is you know we need to pay attention to profitability
01:08:13.080we've got shareholders and frankly for some of those shale producers it's just more profitable
01:08:20.600to sit there with the inventory of drilling locations that you've got and drill out over
01:08:25.000a longer period of time and make more money and they have to reconcile that they have obligations
01:08:31.400to shareholders and you can't just keep asking shareholders to take all the risks so it's a
01:08:36.840balancing act um you know but people now investors and employee potential employees and the public
01:08:45.000is sitting back going watching and seeing who makes what decisions and on what basis and what
01:08:50.840are the values driving those decisions and for the companies that can be explicit about that
01:08:56.840i think it will be better for them longer term because they will they'll galvanize their decision
01:09:02.760making um and it won't be sloppy and i think right now there's a real need for discipline in
01:09:08.200your decision making and your thinking and and and i encourage that because i think it actually
01:09:13.560helps you to be more forthright in the long run yeah well in the uh volatile world we're in right
01:09:20.760now i think companies able to uh pivot and move are going to be able to take advantage of things
01:09:24.840and, you know, the stubborn ones are going to get left behind.
01:09:27.940That's always been the way it is, actually.
01:09:29.820So the more advice they can take and digest, the better.
01:09:33.600So where can people, I mean, there's a lot more to cover,
01:25:48.240So just that reminder, you know, subscribe if you haven't already.
01:25:51.620And we've got another interesting show coming tomorrow.
01:25:54.500Somebody was asking about him the other day, but we're going to have David Parker come on.
01:25:57.380He's going to talk about Take Back Alberta.
01:25:59.280That's an organized group that has been pushing and trying to encourage people to take out the memberships and register for the convention and move Jason Kenney.
01:26:10.740on as the leader of the UCP. So we're going to talk to Mr. Parker about that and see what their
01:26:15.400initiative is about, where they're going with it. And then we're going to have a prospective
01:26:19.740Maverick Party leadership candidate, Tarek El Naga, people who, I'm probably pronouncing his
01:26:25.680name wrong, but people who follow him on Twitter, seen him online. He's a very well-spoken and
01:26:32.200outspoken person for Western independence and good conservative values. He ran in the Maverick
01:26:37.780Party in the last federal election. Right now, the Maverick Party, I did talk to one of their
01:26:41.720leadership candidates last week. And so far, he's the only one fully registered. But it sounds like
01:26:46.600maybe Mr. Elnaga is going to enter the race as well, which it's always healthy for a party. You
01:26:50.380want to have a race. You want to have some competition for those spots. And he's been on
01:26:53.840my show before, and he's going to come on and talk to us tomorrow. So just that reminder,
01:26:58.920there's the other thing for membership, take out the newsletter access. You can keep getting those
01:27:02.460updates right into your mailbox and see what the news items are as they come out. Use that coupon
01:27:07.560code triggered if you're going to take out a full-on membership save some money we all want
01:27:11.480to save money gas prices are going up everything else is going up and just be sure to keep on
01:27:16.600tuning in guys thanks for listening to me rant at you today being my my virtual friends i'm a lonely
01:27:22.040little man in many ways. And, uh, I will talk to you all tomorrow at 1130 AM sharp.