Western Standard - March 23, 2021

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00:02:30.000 Transcription by CastingWords

00:03:00.000 Thank you.

00:03:30.000 Thank you.

00:04:00.000 Good evening. I'm Derek Fuldebrandt, publisher of the Western Standard. Thank you for joining us

00:04:06.920 this Tuesday evening for another edition of Danielle Smith Uncensored. Today we have a great

00:04:13.980 show on the de-platform doctors. Before I kick it over to Danielle, really quickly, I want to remind

00:04:21.320 everyone it's important that if you don't support government bailout media, you need to support

00:04:27.180 independent alternative media western standard doesn't take a penny of government support for

00:04:31.820 what we do so please go to westernstandardonline.com membership become a member uh you get if you buy

00:04:38.300 a whole year you get the first uh two months for free you can just try the whole thing with a 15

00:04:42.620 day trial and get unlimited access to all the western standard content we're producing special

00:04:48.140 note we're going to be expanding very soon to british columbia with some great new contributors

00:04:52.940 and reporters there uh really to be truly the western standard not the alberta plus standard

00:04:58.620 uh so uh please support us become a member um i'm just gonna kick it straight away you're

00:05:05.900 not here to hear me you're here to hear danielle and the doctors uh so danielle thanks for coming

00:05:11.500 on today my pleasure thank you so much again for hosting us on this derek i know derek is uh going

00:05:17.340 to um to go in backstage and we're going to to have a great conversation tonight with our three

00:05:24.300 doctors i just want to start off by uh noting that today's podcast is sponsored by chiron's way

00:05:30.620 consulting penny at chiron's way is a certified natural nutritionist uh health math interventions

00:05:36.940 practitioner and emotional health skills counselor who offers an affordable and educational based

00:05:42.540 approach to address a variety of emotional health related needs including stress and anxiety you can

00:05:48.140 get your free nutritional and stress assessments online at www.kyronsway.com now you'll be happy to

00:05:56.780 know i finally set my computer up so i can monitor all your comments as you're coming in so lots of

00:06:02.540 thank yous for doing this show and thank you so much for tuning in i i wanted to do this episode

00:06:08.700 in particular because as you know i felt like i had to do a little bit of

00:06:13.580 conscience clearing after my experience in mainstream media

00:06:17.580 and two of the dark we've called this tonight the de-platformed doctors and

00:06:21.500 they've all objected they say i've not been de-platformed i still have a voice

00:06:25.740 and so let me explain why i've called them de-platformed doctors

00:06:29.820 uh in the case of dr dennis modry i did ask if i was able to have him on

00:06:35.420 my show after he wrote his first column in the western standard i was told i could not um i was

00:06:42.060 all i also asked if i could have dr roger hodkinson on my show after he gave his presentation to city

00:06:47.820 council in edmonton and i was told i could not i have not met dr patrick phillips uh but he is in

00:06:53.580 a universe where he uh is in touch with those who are also facing various degrees of potential

00:06:59.420 threats to the professional careers, as well as de-platforming. So it's very true that these kind

00:07:06.400 of alternative media have an opportunity to get an alternative message out. We'll have to talk

00:07:13.500 with Zarek afterwards about whether this needs to be posted somewhere else, because I think Dr.

00:07:18.500 Hodkinson has a bit of a, I think he said he's managed to get everything de-platformed that

00:07:24.180 he's been on in various major markets, and I think he's going to try to do it again tonight.

00:07:29.080 But we're going to see if we can at least get this information out to you, and hopefully it will survive Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai.

00:07:39.540 But you never know.

00:07:40.160 That's one of the issues that I've been facing, and I'll talk to the doctors about that as well.

00:07:43.840 But I want you to know who they are, why we're talking to them.

00:07:47.580 We wanted to make sure, I mean, I don't, as you know, I love the whole broad spectrum of health professionals.

00:07:53.820 I do yoga myself, so I understand that those of you who like to have alternative practitioners

00:07:59.360 really swear by it.

00:08:00.600 But we wanted to put this show together with sort of conventional mainstream doctors, just

00:08:07.340 so that you understood that there are conventional mainstream doctors as well who are concerned

00:08:11.820 with the approach that government has taken and its management of COVID.

00:08:15.840 I also am seeing from some of the comments that many of you are so frustrated with the

00:08:21.080 announcement yesterday.

00:08:22.120 i think many of you were expecting that we would move to step three

00:08:25.240 and i would like your feedback on that we'll share some of your questions

00:08:28.440 i don't want to spend too much time hogging the uh the mic tonight i know

00:08:33.240 you guys know that i'm i'm highly capable of doing that and i

00:08:36.440 often do do it but i want to see if i can get as many of your questions

00:08:41.000 posed to the doc so that we can get a perspective that

00:08:44.280 just isn't really widely available elsewhere so

00:08:47.640 keep your questions coming i will keep an eye on this and i will summarize

00:08:51.240 with though i'll watch with one eye and summarize with my pen and make sure that we are able to

00:08:55.720 cover all of the issues off so let me start by uh by telling you who uh i want to give each of

00:09:01.480 the docs an opportunity to just tell us who they are to establish their credentials because one of

00:09:06.840 the issues that we face is that uh there's a challenge to their credentials when they put

00:09:12.520 their name forward saying oh well he doesn't know anything about this that or the other thing so i

00:09:16.840 want to make sure that you know who you're talking to and the the long history that they have in the

00:09:22.120 medical profession i was making a joke that i couldn't read through their resumes because we

00:09:26.680 would be here literally all night just as i was printing off dr dennis modry's uh resume and it's

00:09:32.200 over 60 pages long so i stopped part way through and i'm going to turn it over to dr dennis modry

00:09:38.200 to just tell us a little bit about his history of practice and then we'll we'll get some opening

00:09:43.080 statements from the others as well. Dr. Mowdry, tell us a little bit about who you are.

00:09:48.380 Sure. Happy to, Danielle, and delighted that Patrick and Roger are on the call as well. It

00:09:55.340 would have been lovely to have Ari Jaffe with us as well. In any event, I went to medical school

00:10:03.800 here in Edmonton and did my BSc and my MD here. And at 23, I left then for Montreal and spent

00:10:12.200 eight years at McGill training in general surgery and cardiovascular and thoracic surgery,

00:10:18.520 critical care, and I did a master's in experimental surgery. And before I tell you the next part,

00:10:24.960 I should back up and say that before I was in medicine, I was doing lung transplants on dogs.

00:10:31.480 So that leapfrogs to the next part of my career was when I went to Stanford.

00:10:38.100 And I spent three years at Stanford doing immunology and high-risk cardiac surgery and was the transplant chief there for a year, at which time I performed some 23 transplants while at Stanford, which gave – all of that gave me the credibility to come back to Canada and specifically to Alberta, which I love, and set up Western Canada's first heart and lung transplantation program.

00:11:06.100 program and for the majority of the next 30 years i directed the heart and lung transplant program

00:11:16.020 as well as the cardiovascular intensive care unit so my involvement with immunology

00:11:22.260 and infectious disease was virtually on a daily basis and but having said that it was a tremendous

00:11:31.540 privilege to work with extremely bright people in many uh fields uh but in particular in infectious

00:11:38.900 disease as well so whereas you learn a lot um as you go through your team you also learn a lot

00:11:46.500 while you're in practice from your colleagues dr modry let me pause you on that because i know

00:11:50.500 you're probably probably about to say some nice things about dr hodkinson i'm getting some feedback

00:11:54.340 chris tells me my mic is muted so i don't know if dr hodkinson and uh dr phillips if perhaps you

00:12:00.260 you can mute your your mics just because of the way the speaker works we might be

00:12:05.240 getting some feedback we'll see if we can solve that now can't hear you so

00:12:13.200 continue on dr. I was I was sort of finished I was just you know you know to

00:12:20.880 reiterate the last part was it was just a privilege to work with so many very

00:12:26.480 bright people in immunology and infectious disease. And you can't help but even though

00:12:33.660 I had a tremendous amount of training and experience in the area, you can't help but

00:12:38.040 learn along the way. And it kind of is the segue to, even though I'm retired now, I've

00:12:44.820 maintained a keen interest in many aspects of healthcare and life in general and politics

00:12:50.820 and whatnot. And the understanding of what has happened with healthcare and with the way in which

00:13:01.840 COVID-19 has been addressed has really compelled me to sort of rekindle my interest, if you will,

00:13:11.000 in what's going on in the world and see whether or not I can help make a difference, which was

00:13:17.920 which was the genesis of why I wrote the letter to the premier, which, as you know, he has now

00:13:24.080 responded to. So in a way, I haven't been deplatformed. But I am going to respond to it.

00:13:31.140 Good. In a way, you've got a really big platform, because as soon as the politicians start engaging

00:13:35.040 with you, everybody pays attention. So I can't wait to see how that goes. Thank you for the

00:13:38.920 introduction, Dr. Modry. We'll now go to Dr. Roger Hodkinson to get a little bit of his background

00:13:45.580 as well and what brings him to this issue you know dr hawkinson it was almost like it was some kind

00:13:51.260 of secretly recorded audio tape of your testimony that then got posted surreptitiously onto various

00:13:57.980 websites that's how i initially heard it which is why i wanted to have you on because i thought

00:14:01.660 i'm pretty sure that this doc has more than five minutes worth of testimony to say but it was sort

00:14:06.140 of strange the way it uh it almost was like a bootleg copy of your comments bizarrely and i just

00:14:12.780 want i want to give you to give some background about why it is you chose to give that testimony

00:14:17.500 to edmonton city council that day have we got dr hodkinson are we frozen dr hodkinson we can't hear

00:14:35.820 you i don't know if we can get some technical support in the background there we might have

00:14:41.660 you on mute we got you now yeah lean forward and see if we're getting closer to the mic solves it

00:14:47.740 go ahead well yes i i um i took the opportunity of uh making a presentation from city council

00:14:57.820 um on the what they call the mask mandate um i felt very strongly about um this whole mess

00:15:05.340 not just with mass but in general as i'm sure we'll get into and never in my wildest dreams

00:15:10.620 did I expect it to go viral internationally, which resulted in a great deal of involvement

00:15:17.900 in interviews and other presentations in Europe and in the States. So I'm not new to

00:15:29.020 virtual issues and the media leading role 30 odd years ago in the fight against big tobacco,

00:15:35.900 which is still killing in the states half a million people a year so I consider myself

00:15:43.160 educated in the trenches of public health and having lobbied and both provincially and nationally

00:15:49.940 and internationally on the subject I know the issues of public health and when the college

00:15:58.060 tries to demean me in terms of the scope of practice that they think is appropriate for me

00:16:05.300 I take that very personally.

00:16:09.300 Snopes and AP have tried to misinterpret my credentials.

00:16:19.300 But in summary, I'm a pathologist for your viewers.

00:16:22.300 Pathologists don't do autopsies all day long, by the way.

00:16:25.300 We're the guys in the back rooms giving Dr. Modray all the numbers that helps him manage his patients.

00:16:34.300 that's what pathologists do we relate to all specialities including infectious

00:16:41.560 disease we're trained in virology and certain aspects of public health so my

00:16:47.840 training started in Cambridge in the UK I left I came here in 1970 when all that

00:16:55.280 was needed was a negative chest x-ray I trained in pathology in Vancouver which

00:17:01.720 was an excellent residency program uh i've had an academic position i've done lots of teaching i've

00:17:07.960 been involved in royal college work i've been president of our section of the medical association

00:17:13.960 i've done lots of stuff in in medicine um not as um i haven't been cutting out um what was it

00:17:24.600 dennis you were cutting out uh lungs right um the cards and lungs lungs out of dogs hearts and lungs

00:17:33.880 yeah yeah we were doing i was going to be an experimental pathologist years ago and i was

00:17:39.640 doing partial head i was doing partial hypotectomies on rats so that's the only

00:17:44.680 similarity i had with dr moudry i think um but that didn't come too much so yes i'm i'm um i'm

00:17:51.720 outraged about all of this um despite the college attacking me for my statements and

00:17:59.080 bring sufficient expertise to um add um information for the general public which is being sorely um

00:18:11.880 i'm grateful to you for that thank you so much and we'll get into some of the issues in just a

00:18:15.400 moment we've got uh dr patrick phillips who is with us as well so uh doc why don't you tell

00:18:20.680 us a little bit about your history and your practice yeah thank you for having me on uh so

00:18:27.080 uh i did my treatment medical training at dalhousie medicine new brunswick and after that uh i finished

00:18:33.240 my uh medical so my sorry my family medicine residency in uh 2018 in at toronto and from there

00:18:41.960 i've spent the last three years mostly doing uh locums and throughout rural ontario uh working

00:18:48.200 mostly in emergency departments um but also doing some hospitalists and some office work as well

00:18:53.720 and a little bit of dabbling in in icu um but i mean i i'd say i don't have the the um uh

00:19:04.680 i don't i don't have a ton of experience in research or in specialized areas but i can tell

00:19:08.920 you for sure that i guess a doctor who works on the front lines of health care in the emergency

00:19:13.800 department in a small town i i've seen so many of the harms that have come from these lockdowns

00:19:19.880 and it was seeing all of that that just led my conscious to know that i i needed to speak out

00:19:25.960 that something something was going wrong the harms were outweighing the benefits and and i i think

00:19:31.400 i can definitely speak to that and how people were being thrown under the bus um um by these

00:19:37.880 lockdowns dr phillips let's let's start there did you have any covid patients i mean i want to

00:19:45.560 firmly establish what covid does in sort of the normal environment as well as what leads to

00:19:52.840 hospitalization as well as sadly what leads to death have you had any patients who've had some

00:19:58.120 of those extreme outcomes i personally have not no so i've had a few covid patients some of them

00:20:05.000 have been hospitalized um but um most of them have done well i've worked mostly in northern ontario

00:20:12.360 uh where we have been fortunate to not have a lot of cases um uh it's it's spreading a little

00:20:18.840 more up there now um so we are seeing more for sure uh but but yeah uh honestly not a lot um but

00:20:27.640 and i wouldn't say that was on its own what led me to speak out it was more uh seeing the

00:20:32.760 the consequences from the lockdowns because we underwent some of the same

00:20:37.020 lockdowns as Toronto did and and it was devastating. Okay let's go to Dr. Modrin

00:20:43.860 I just want to get all of your assessment of COVID-19 so SARS-CoV-2 the

00:20:49.700 virus and COVID-19 the disease that it causes because I was watching some of

00:20:56.000 the testimony from doctors in emergency rooms in New York for instance Kyle

00:21:00.360 Cameron Seidel was one that I watched and he he painted a you know a very

00:21:04.800 troubling picture of blood clotting the appearance of altitude sickness because

00:21:10.360 of low oxygen levels the congestion in the lungs and how the the the x-rays were

00:21:17.180 were cloudy and then of course we've seen obviously the deaths that have

00:21:20.920 resulted so I I want to just get your assessment Dr. Modri of of how this

00:21:25.700 respiratory disease is different from other respiratory viruses that we've

00:21:29.940 seen well from my perspective and and i think roger can weigh in on this uh as well particularly

00:21:38.740 as a pathologist but clinically um when someone has pneumonia whether it's viral bacterial fungal

00:21:47.460 rickettsial it doesn't matter um they're often going to go ahead and have a problem with

00:21:54.180 ventilation and oxygenation so retention of co2 and low oxygen levels um the uh the one of the

00:22:03.380 things that seems to have occurred with uh covet 19 um is that as you well know it seems to have

00:22:12.100 a predilection for people who are not only elderly but who have also comorbid conditions

00:22:20.420 And so, and I guess that shouldn't be so surprising because in general, as we get older, our immune system is not as robust as it is when we're younger,

00:22:35.020 which partially, to a large extent, I believe explains why younger people are far more resistant to the disease, to dying from COVID-19 than others.

00:22:46.280 Um, having said that, um, you know, I mean, I'm encouraged, uh, by, um, the advances that have

00:22:55.960 been made with respect to the treatment of COVID-19 as well, uh, which, and I know we'll

00:23:01.520 get into this at some point, which is going to raise the question of a, do you really need,

00:23:05.160 um, a vaccine, but from a, from a clinical perspective, uh, people come in, um, and don't

00:23:12.860 forget, I haven't been in practice, but I've certainly seen the chest

00:23:16.620 rankinograms, I've seen the analyses of people who are ill with COVID-19, and it

00:23:24.540 would be very similar to someone who is extremely ill as well from another form

00:23:30.620 of a respiratory virus from which they may or may not survive. Roger would like

00:23:37.120 to expand on that. Yeah, definitely. Let me ask Dr.

00:23:39.380 hotkinson about this and i don't know i'm i'm just speaking to our behind the scenes guy if

00:23:43.540 there's a way of of us putting who we are on the uh on the screens i think you can you can put our

00:23:49.620 titles i've got a few people asking who's speaking now who's speaking now so there you go thanks so

00:23:54.740 much for doing that so dr hotkinson if you can just uh sort of jump off where dr modri left off

00:24:00.580 and just tell us what uh if you if this if you were still in practice and this disease arrived

00:24:07.700 what what are some of the distinguishing features that make it different because we've often been

00:24:12.180 been told it's the novel coronavirus and so what is what is novel about this

00:24:19.380 well first of all can you hear me clearly because i've been having a lot of chopping

00:24:23.540 in that that's fine well let me paint the big picture here first of all i'm not a clinician

00:24:30.980 um but i can say this i think with some certainty if i could borrow

00:24:40.100 there's no there there this is in the grand scheme of things minor infection

00:24:50.500 the vast majority of the population are simply the working well as i call them

00:24:55.540 they are not dying in any larger numbers than they have with previous flu epidemics

00:25:00.420 The essence of this matter is to protect the vulnerable, the elderly in nursing homes, as described in the Great Barrington Declaration by three esteemed international epidemiologists, who basically said, nothing needs to be done except focus protection for that group of people.

00:25:23.460 those people are in essentially self-quarantined locations called nursing

00:25:30.820 doors all that needs to be done is to protect them in ways that are very established with

00:25:39.120 infection control manuals on the shelves that do exactly that testing is not required for anyone

00:25:50.080 except people in sufficient distress that they may need to be admitted to hospital.

00:25:55.060 Asymptomatic testing has been an absolute disaster.

00:25:58.220 Massive numbers of false positives.

00:26:00.540 Then the contacts of those people get taken out of the workforce as well,

00:26:04.440 resulting in a huge knock-on effect of the false positive results.

00:26:09.700 So essentially, this is, again, to borrow a phrase from American politics,

00:26:15.180 this is a nothing burger.

00:26:16.960 it's really not that much more serious than previous flu epidemics it's killing

00:26:21.520 somewhat more elderly people with comorbidities but not a massive number and so you have to ask

00:26:27.840 yourself why are we doing this internationally if the working well are not dying in any greater

00:26:37.520 numbers than they have with the flu we simply don't need any protection of any kind for the

00:26:44.480 working well if you're sick you stay at home you give it to your family and that builds herd immunity

00:26:51.200 it's excellent transmission of a natural infection that's the whole virus and you're not you're not

00:26:59.680 needing a vaccine at all so in summary this is a non-issue it's been massively distorted by

00:27:08.480 politicians playing medicine the working well need no protection lockdowns have no purpose

00:27:16.080 the harm that they are creating is vastly greater than the benefit and the vaccine is reckless in my

00:27:23.120 opinion it's being foisted on people as the only alternative to taking the dogs off with the

00:27:29.360 mandates the vaccine is experimental it's not being subjected to the usual two to four year rigor

00:27:38.480 effects it's the biggest medical experiment in history being doing when

00:27:50.060 there's no evidence for that I'm not an anti-vaxxer I take pneumococcal vaccine

00:27:55.000 I take the flu vaccines I'm not an anti-vaxxer I mean I'm a I'm an

00:27:59.960 evidence-based physician who's lived his entire career that way and what's going

00:28:05.000 on politically in my opinion in if it was translated into medical practice

00:28:10.940 negligence if I was doing things that hurt more people than than it benefited

00:28:16.520 or if I was giving them stuff which is certainly not happening with the

00:28:23.560 vaccine if I was doing either of those two things I would be in jeopardy of

00:28:28.240 losing my license.

00:28:31.400 college let me pause you for a minute i wonder if we turn off your uh video if we might we you

00:28:37.240 you were almost perfect most of the time but there are a couple of moments where you cut in and out

00:28:41.560 we got we got the message but maybe i'll just see if we turn off your uh off your camera if your

00:28:47.000 audio comes through perfectly clear let me let me go to dr patrick phillips and get him to weigh in

00:28:52.680 and build on what you've said and then we'll do another round here but dr phillips um maybe you

00:28:58.760 can tell us your take on it here's here's the way i've looked at this and i i'm going to quote dr

00:29:04.760 dina hinshaw and how she described this as the numbers were coming more clear is that those who

00:29:11.640 are under or over the age of 70 with pre-existing conditions have a much higher rate of a bad

00:29:20.200 outcome than influenza those who are between 40 and 70 it's about the same as influenza

00:29:27.880 And her term was that the risk is vanishingly small for those under the age of 40.

00:29:33.980 Now, does that does that wash with what with what you're experiencing, what you're seeing, what your colleagues are experiencing?

00:29:40.300 Does that seem to be how this virus is playing out?

00:29:43.600 Yeah, absolutely. We're definitely seeing people with with the worst outcomes are definitely the people over 70.

00:29:50.280 And one thing that I'll tell you this year, especially seeing and comparing this year to other years where we normally have a flu epidemic, which we don't have this year, there's a huge difference in the population that I'm seeing coming in with flu-like illness, right?

00:30:06.600 So SARS-CoV-2 or COVID is now our flu-like illness of this year.

00:30:12.520 It's the dominant virus this time.

00:30:15.220 So normally, I normally have a large amount of children who come into the hospital, honestly on desk door with influenza, like they are often, it's rare for them to die, but it's often that they get very sick and often need resuscitation when they come into the hospital.

00:30:34.640 And I'm seeing next to none of that. And that's being seen in the statistics across the board.

00:30:40.560 Children are doing really well this year because COVID is not very dangerous to them at all.

00:30:47.220 Children actually have a low expression of the ACE2 receptor. So the ACE2 receptor is

00:30:54.860 basically what the virus attaches to and allows it to invade our cells.

00:31:02.560 and children have very low expression of that receptor and that and the expression of that

00:31:08.260 receptor goes up significantly with age so uh that's a major part of the reason why children

00:31:14.540 are are minimally affected and not only that but they also are are not great vectors of um of spread

00:31:22.860 so they they often don't spread it to others in most cases where um contact tracing has been

00:31:29.340 investigated, they found that there have been next to no transmission from children to parents.

00:31:36.040 It's almost always from parents to children. So yeah, I'm definitely seeing a heat, like this

00:31:43.780 virus is very, basically, the severity definitely correlates with age. And unfortunately, that is

00:31:54.580 not being reflected in the restrictions that we have on our population like children are being

00:32:00.900 treated as if they're just as infectious as adults which they're not they're not at risk

00:32:05.380 and actually one of the safest places to be is in schools even with no restrictions even with no

00:32:11.800 masks children do really well and there's very few teachers who've been seriously harmed by

00:32:18.600 covid in schools so i think um that is science right like that we have science we have data on

00:32:26.760 this age correlation i think that needs to be reflected in the way that we respond to this

00:32:31.320 virus you know the reason i'm very careful in the way i talk about that is that when i was

00:32:36.280 in mainstream media there was a broadcast standards council complaint against me because i said

00:32:41.640 exactly that that influenza was more dangerous to those under the age of 18 than covet 19 just

00:32:48.760 because it seemed to be that that's what the stats showed and yet it didn't stop someone from

00:32:52.920 launching a broadcast standards council complained to say that i i shouldn't do that so let me let me

00:32:57.240 just look back around and do another circle here with dr dennis modry so if this is the case if we

00:33:04.200 are seeing that um this disease manifests very differently depending on different age groups

00:33:10.360 why don't we deal with the most at risk group first so those over the age of 70 those with

00:33:17.580 multiple pre-existing conditions in alberta the stats show three or more pre-existing conditions

00:33:23.300 and being over age 70 are the highest death rates what what should have been the right approach when

00:33:29.940 when we started seeing those numbers and that was becoming clear all the way back to march even with

00:33:34.380 the stats coming out of wuhan certainly with the stats coming out of italy it was beginning to be

00:33:39.220 very clear that that was who the most at risk was. If there had been a proper public health

00:33:43.600 approach, what would they have done differently? Dr. Modring. Well, it's a great question. And it

00:33:51.400 was central to the open letter that I drafted to the premier because the essence of learning is

00:34:01.400 that you change the way you think about things or you do things different based on new information.

00:34:09.220 Well, last year at this time, there was a lot we didn't really know, particularly as we were getting daily feed from what was going on in Italy, et cetera.

00:34:25.460 And it was estimated at that time that the mortality rate was 3.5%.

00:34:31.400 Well, we now know that it's more like 0.01%.

00:34:35.240 So it was widely overestimated, and that caused fear.

00:34:42.440 But over time, we learned a lot.

00:34:45.540 We learned who the at-risk population was.

00:34:50.500 We learned what the comorbid conditions were.

00:34:54.880 And that gave confidence to start lifting some of the restrictions.

00:35:00.300 Now, with this perceived second wave that was coming, as a result, governments once again overreacted.

00:35:11.920 They didn't understand, and they still obviously don't understand, that if they had done nothing, exactly the same thing would have happened, but we would have solved this problem a lot quicker.

00:35:24.360 So every time you have a lockdown, you delay, you delay herd immunity. And the rationale for that was, well, we're going to delay until the vaccine is ready.

00:35:39.160 Wow. Now, so what I was hoping for with respect to our current provincial government was that they would have learned from the great Barrington Declaration and the evidence that was coming out against lockdowns and social distancing and masks.

00:36:02.820 And there was a lot of that, because my letter came out on December the 11th, and a lot of the material that I provided was within a month to two months of drafting that letter.

00:36:12.780 Some of that information I provided was within a few days.

00:36:16.000 So why?

00:36:16.920 You ask a very important question.

00:36:18.440 Why did the government not take into account that alternative narrative?

00:36:26.440 Well, you could assume it's a matter of cognitive dissonance.

00:36:31.080 they already have fixed in their brain that this is the only thing that we can do. This is the

00:36:37.420 right thing to do. This is what the international community was doing. So it reminds me of a story,

00:36:45.820 and I'll just digress. Just a classic case of cognitive dissonance was in the case of gastric

00:36:54.540 ulcers, it was thought prior to 1982 it was due to hyperacidity. Well, in 1982, two Australian 0.74

00:37:03.100 physicians demonstrated it was due to Helicobacter bacterium, Helobacter pylori, excuse me, which is a

00:37:11.540 bacterium. So many, many years after, the medical community didn't accept that. So this is 1982.

00:37:18.960 Many years after, they still didn't accept it. Physicians were still treating gastric ulcers

00:37:24.040 and duodenal ulcers as though it was due to hyperacidity. Well, in 2005, those two physicians

00:37:29.180 were awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine. What does that tell you? So that's a classic case of

00:37:34.340 cognitive dissonance. And it's exactly the same thing that has occurred with governments and our

00:37:40.720 own government here in Alberta. And Patrick, the same thing is happening to you in Ontario.

00:37:46.780 And that is the explanation. But there's one other. And that is that when you've already

00:37:52.660 made a mistake as a government official. It's extremely difficult to come out in front of the

00:37:58.980 public and say, I've made a mistake. We've made a mistake. But I've given Mr. Kenney the opportunity

00:38:06.020 to do that. And it was very interesting because he's one of the few politicians that actually

00:38:11.280 apologized for the lockdowns last spring. But he did it again. So that is a classic case of

00:38:20.700 cognitive dissonance once once again so I don't know if there's a better

00:38:25.140 explanation I can provide for you as to why these things will persist but think

00:38:31.200 about this viruses mutate that's why every year there's a new vaccine for the

00:38:41.040 common flu. Well, if, and the COVID-19 virus is mutating as well, it's going to mutate

00:38:52.100 every year. So if governments keep doing the same thing, we can expect masks, social distancing

00:38:59.980 and lockdowns forever, which is absolutely insane. Okay, Dr. Modra, I got to stop you

00:39:06.640 there. We all did a collective gasp when you said that, thinking that we'd never get

00:39:10.760 out of this we will hopefully will you'll give us some hope by the end of it all right let me go

00:39:19.000 over then to dr hawkinson and if um if we find you cutting in and out we'll just get you to um

00:39:23.880 to ditch your your video again to see if it works any better but maybe you can give us your thought

00:39:29.000 on why it is that there seems to be this uh medical consensus i i think to build on what

00:39:35.000 Dr. Modry said I think someone challenged Einstein at one point saying oh but all these other

00:39:40.840 physicists disagree with you it's the majority of them do he says what does it mean what does

00:39:45.080 it matter if it's a majority all it would take is one it would just take one person to overturn my

00:39:50.120 theory if I have if they happen to be right and yet we don't seem to have that attitude of medical

00:39:54.520 science it seems like the innovators and the ones who are experimenting and the ones who are

00:39:59.480 prepared to go out on a limb if they don't fit with a narrative or a mainstream idea then not

00:40:07.160 that then they're actually shouted down which is not what i expected so do you have some thoughts

00:40:11.320 on why that is i think we still have you on mute there dr hodkinson

00:40:24.600 there's been no due diligence done on this matter from the get-go anywhere

00:40:29.480 um it was ferguson professor ferguson at imperial college london who by the way is not a physician

00:40:37.160 he's a theoretical physicist who was notoriously wrong with his previous projections from other

00:40:42.680 epidemics his projections for which his computer modeling as he called it um nonsense in nonsense

00:40:50.360 out is a better description um projected an armageddon that was coming in everyone's direction

00:40:58.440 no one did due diligence on this it's projections who was notoriously wrong many many times

00:41:04.840 previously then there was a simultaneous adaption of measures internationally based upon simply

00:41:17.240 everyone else is doing it there has been no consensus in the scientific literature

00:41:24.040 all the medical literature that any underlined any of these interventions work period

00:41:32.440 the mass literature is replete with failed attempts to show that it stops the transmission

00:41:37.640 of flu fauci was saying the mass weren't necessary last year and earlier on this year

00:41:43.320 this year mass don't work the danish study proved that mass have basically this whole

00:41:50.600 mask idea is based upon two situations one is i'm wearing a mask and i don't want to get covid

00:41:58.120 well the danish studies showed quite clearly that that does not

00:42:04.360 mask is i've got covid and i don't want to give it to you well you know what when we had the flu

00:42:09.160 in previous years and we felt sick we stayed home ourselves we didn't need testing no one

00:42:14.200 told us what to do we stayed home we were very responsible and we didn't visit granny and we

00:42:19.640 went back to work when we felt well with no testing at all it was personal responsibility

00:42:25.800 so this whole thing has morphed into a monster of politics playing medicine with absolutely no

00:42:33.080 consensus that any of these interventions work at all social distancing is merely an extension of

00:42:39.640 masks lockdowns dr ariofe showed conclusively that the uh adjusted lies lost is five to ten times

00:42:51.080 the benefit and lockdowns of course had never been tried before anyway lockdowns are a colossal

00:42:57.800 and as batachuria said the great barrington declaration it's the biggest mistake that's

00:43:02.440 ever been made in public health it's of that gigantic

00:43:08.120 nothing works politicians have got to get their head around the fact i'm

00:43:12.920 talking as a pathologist now this is everywhere you cannot control

00:43:19.160 it you have to accommodate to it in practical ways like we did with the

00:43:24.360 flu in previous years it's as simple as that this matter is

00:43:30.200 being made so enormously complex for no medical reason the colleges are claiming that anyone that

00:43:37.880 speaks a counter-narrative is basing it on hearsay and they have the facts well there are no facts

00:43:44.600 in this matter that's a grotesque lie there are no facts these are arbitrary measures introduced

00:43:51.960 by politicians because they have to be seen to be doing something to save their backsides

00:43:56.920 anything so long as it's visible and then they bring down the dogs to make sure it's enforced

00:44:05.220 with all kinds of consequences canceled surgeries canceled cancer investigations

00:44:12.880 canceled holidays back weddings funerals people not being allowed to hold the hand of a dying

00:44:19.800 relative schools being closed children losing a year of their lives of education bankruptcies

00:44:26.340 by the thousands these consequences are outrageous and as i said earlier on if i practice medicine

00:44:33.460 like that and i was causing much more harm than good and if i was advocating treatments that were

00:44:40.900 recklessly not being fully tested i would be in danger of losing my license so please tell me

00:44:48.020 why it's any different for a medical officer of health for whom the patient is actually society

00:44:53.620 medical officers of health in this country are doing exactly that they are practicing

00:45:02.300 it's as simple as that they're getting away with it because they can't be prosecuted

00:45:08.080 and because their political masters are telling them that i want something done

00:45:13.000 dr hodkinson i want to get um uh dr phillips to to respond to that because i i guess that's

00:45:20.220 where i'm confused is maybe it's because i'm a former politician that you're going to think that

00:45:24.540 i'm defending politicians but it seems to me that it's the medical officers of health that are

00:45:30.620 driving this and it seems to me that the clamp down on anyone who offers an alternative view

00:45:36.700 is coming from your college professional body saying to you that you're not allowed to have an

00:45:43.660 opinion that differs from the chief medical officer and then it's further exacerbated by

00:45:49.580 the likes of sandra pachai and jack dorsey and mark zuckerberg who say anyone who says anything

00:45:55.340 contrary to dr anthony fauci we're going to deem that misinformation and we're going to eliminate

00:46:02.460 those videos from youtube and various other platforms and then once that happens the mainstream

00:46:08.140 media doesn't cover it because you have to figure gosh if it's so crazy that those three tech giants

00:46:14.700 won't even allow it to air we can't possibly air it on mainstream media but to me all roads go back

00:46:22.220 to the chief medical officers of health who've been given absolute power through the public

00:46:27.980 public emergency act and why why are they doing this i mean i think dr hawkinson thinks that

00:46:33.820 they're getting directed by their politicians it seems to me is the reverse it's that the medical

00:46:39.020 officers are directing the politicians to fall into line and it's perplexing to me i don't quite

00:46:43.420 understand how we develop this and why your profession works that way do you have some

00:46:47.100 thoughts on that dr phillips i don't want to get you i don't want to get you in trouble with your

00:46:50.380 college but but you must be seeing the same things that i'm seeing and i'm just i'm perplexed and i

00:46:55.020 thought maybe you could shed some light on what's happening yeah absolutely like we we recently here

00:46:59.500 in ontario we had uh doug ford come out and say that uh he will absolutely not disobey his chief

00:47:06.700 medical health officer so he said that would be political suicide and i think that was a i don't

00:47:12.380 know if you know knew he was on camera at that moment but he was it was a very honest moment

00:47:16.460 when he said that at the same time just a few months ago we had our uh chief medical officer

00:47:22.220 dr brian williams and his um and his deputy uh dr yafi um say that they they're not sure why they

00:47:31.020 even bring the papers in front of them because they read whatever uh they they uh put on the

00:47:36.860 the teleprompter for them. And that's a, that's a recorded video that went out there. So the

00:47:43.460 question is like, who's writing, who's writing these scripts for them, right? So who's really

00:47:47.940 calling the shots? And, and to be honest, I don't know, but there's somebody, there's somebody who's

00:47:54.100 writing those scripts, right? And there's, there's definitely some people in the back rooms are kind

00:47:59.060 of making those decisions. But ultimately, both are a problem. So the Chief Medical Officers of

00:48:07.620 Health, yeah, they're unaccountable. They aren't subject to the same restrictions that I would be

00:48:13.820 as a doctor. We've had Chief Medical Officers of Health here ordering parents in Ontario.

00:48:20.080 If another student in their child's class was tested positive, they are obligated under

00:48:29.600 a fine of $5,000 per day to bring that child home and lock them up in a room with no parental

00:48:36.840 contact for 14 days.

00:48:39.240 And the fine can go up to $70,000, $5,000 per day.

00:48:43.900 And it's a giant scandal.

00:48:45.420 If I ever did that, I would have my license revoked immediately.

00:48:49.520 these rules do not apply to public medical officers. And, and we had them kind of renege

00:48:56.580 on that part, part way. But it was an official document that was put out by these officers.

00:49:03.160 The other part is that, yeah, the politicians seem to be using them as a bit of a scapegoat.

00:49:08.880 But ultimately, we elect MPPs here in Ontario and a premier and, and they're the ones who are

00:49:16.400 in charge. And so they need to start taking responsibility for this. But also we need to

00:49:22.900 have regulations in place that nobody should be able to do this. State mandated child abuse

00:49:27.620 should never even be possible under our constitution. We invented a constitution for this

00:49:33.820 reason, because politicians get run away and they feel like they need to do something to solve a

00:49:39.960 problem. And if there's no limits on that power, they're going to feel the obligation psychologically

00:49:46.220 to to do something and that's why we have constitutions so that they're not even able

00:49:51.580 to do that to take away people's personal freedom their freedom to raise and love their children in

00:49:57.160 a normal way is unthinkable and that's why throughout the western world we establish

00:50:03.180 constitutions that governments don't have the even the power to do that and so i don't know

00:50:08.760 what happened to the constitution in this country but we need to bring it back no kidding let me go

00:50:13.600 back to Dr. Modry, maybe you can comment as well on what consequences there could potentially be

00:50:22.060 for doctors who do speak out. I mean, again, I just want to give everybody background because

00:50:26.740 they know I've been darn frustrated by all of this. And it was one of the main reasons why

00:50:30.520 I left radio. But there was a, I contacted John Carpe with the Justice Center for Constitutional

00:50:36.440 Freedoms. I said, I'm having a devil of a time finding doctors who will come on my show. And so

00:50:41.360 he pre-indemnified doctors saying that if your college comes after you, you already have legal

00:50:48.380 counsel and will represent you. And so he connected me with five or six different doctors on that

00:50:53.240 basis. But some of them still came forward and said, you know what, 100% of my salary is paid

00:50:58.880 for by government. I might lose my practicing rights at this hospital. I've got a young family,

00:51:04.060 I can't afford it. And that's shocking to me, actually, that there would be that level of

00:51:09.380 professional discipline. Dr. Motry, can you comment on that?

00:51:13.560 Well, that's exactly the problem. The hospitals are paid from the government, and physicians are paid from the government.

00:51:26.920 And they work at the pleasure of the hospital administration.

00:51:32.120 And if the hospital administration gets a missive from government that they don't like what this particular physician or surgeon is saying, it doesn't look like government is firing them.

00:51:45.880 It's the hospital administration that lets them go.

00:51:49.700 But let me get back to something, because there is a way in which physicians with an alternative view can get the ear of government.

00:52:03.020 And an example of that is in the U.S. Senate when Bhattacharya and a number of other physicians spoke to the U.S. senators regarding the use of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamin D, et cetera, et cetera.

00:52:23.260 And guess what's happened?

00:52:25.340 They're all now available.

00:52:27.360 CDC has approved them.

00:52:28.700 OK, so now here in Alberta, and I don't know, Patrick, if it's happening in Ontario at all, but there's a number of UCP MLAs that would like to hear from Dr.

00:52:44.860 Hodkinson, from Dr. Ari Jaffe, Mr. Redmond, myself, and perhaps others. But from the top,

00:52:54.060 it appears as though that opportunity doesn't exist. But I think the four or five of us

00:53:01.960 would love the opportunity in front of caucus to debate Dr. Hinshaw and her colleagues who have an

00:53:13.460 opposing view. And you're right, the government has the responsibility to make a final decision.

00:53:21.460 But as you know, we make our best decisions based on having the best available information.

00:53:28.580 And it isn't good enough for Dr. Henshaw's group to say, well, that evidence or this evidence,

00:53:36.020 which is contrary to their thinking, is unsupported or lacks scientific veracity, etc.

00:53:45.420 Let the people who, like ourselves, who feel as though there is veracity, to take that research

00:53:53.440 and debate with in front of caucus so that those people who are responsible for what happens in

00:54:01.960 this province can hear both sides from the experts from both sides even if we have to bring in

00:54:08.400 somebody from germany or from stanford or harvard to have that debate with us but that's the way

00:54:15.480 that's that's one way it could be done but what's happening is government is only getting a one-sided

00:54:21.220 narrative and that's their collective cognitive dissonance and it's maddening it's maddening

00:54:27.560 Because many of us can't get, as you've said,

00:54:32.560 through to the mainstream media

00:54:34.040 because they don't want to hear something

00:54:36.100 that's counter to the narrative

00:54:37.520 that they've been pushing all along.

00:54:40.220 Let me ask Dr. Hodkinson if he has another observation

00:54:43.440 about, because you've been doing international media as well.

00:54:46.460 Is there anything that you've seen

00:54:47.700 that has created a bit of a breakthrough

00:54:49.600 in political thinking elsewhere?

00:54:51.040 I mean, we mentioned Dr. Pierre Corry

00:54:53.860 and others giving the presentation to the Senate.

00:54:56.420 There was also Dr. Bhargacharya and Dr. Martin Koldorf,

00:55:00.480 as well as Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Scott Atlas.

00:55:05.280 That was the latest last week.

00:55:08.240 Governor Ron DeSantis held a follow-up press conference

00:55:11.780 and he made them available for an hour and a half,

00:55:13.920 just talking it all through.

00:55:14.960 And I've often thought,

00:55:16.300 Premier Kennedy needs to do the same thing.

00:55:18.060 I'm just seeing, so we've got a couple of examples.

00:55:20.140 Have you seen any others, Dr. Hawkinson?

00:55:22.320 Let me just before Roger,

00:55:23.640 because there's three more things I want to know about this.

00:55:27.100 One is that on January the 25th,

00:55:30.720 a German court has ruled that lockdowns are unconstitutional.

00:55:34.800 So that's number one.

00:55:36.000 So it's like I said earlier,

00:55:37.640 there's going to be a reckoning that's coming.

00:55:40.380 And here's the next one.

00:55:42.060 In June of this coming of this year,

00:55:45.540 the Swiss are going to hold a referendum

00:55:47.640 on whether to strip government of its power

00:55:51.340 to impose new lockdowns.

00:55:53.640 And what's even more interesting right now out of Germany, Dr. Reimer Fulmich, who's a lawyer, who has, along with 24 international lawyers, has started a class action suit against the World Health Organization, the U.S., Canada, and Germany as a result of the harm that lockdowns have caused.

00:56:20.500 So things are happening now. And provincial governments and federal governments that have been dealing with these lockdowns have been shoving it down people's throats. They may well be caught up with this class action lawsuit. It's going to be very interesting to see. And that's one thing that gets the attention of people is that they're being sued.

00:56:45.960 Right. And class actions would potentially contain damages. And so when you've got dollars associated with it, that could also be a lot more serious.

00:56:55.600 So, Dr. Hodkinson, any thoughts that you might have on how to get the message through to politicians, at least that there is this other perspective?

00:57:02.000 the the drivers of the current mess are two asymptomatic testing with a map

00:57:13.640 lives that's hyped in the morning newspaper with a climbing graph and variants of this and that

00:57:20.480 allows the politicians the reason to down on the madness that's already happened the second driver

00:57:28.700 though is insidious the three sources of information that people typically rely

00:57:35.580 upon for information are politicians journalists and physicians all three

00:57:42.740 groups are being viciously internationally suppressed journalists

00:57:49.000 are having their YouTube channels taken down I've done a number of interviews

00:57:52.540 internationally but their YouTube channels taken down but physicians are

00:58:02.140 the most respect of information and the colleges are doing everything they can

00:58:10.180 to suppress physicians everywhere internationally me and me being one of

00:58:18.260 they're not going to succeed because of two three one it's my right to stand up as a free

00:58:23.860 individual to speak my mind i have knowledgeable but remember no one is knowledgeable in all the

00:58:29.860 many detailed facets of this matter what's needed as a generalist to us review the scene and step

00:58:37.700 back and give a global assessment of what's going on the colleges are basically there to protect the

00:58:46.580 public good doctors not a pedophile and there's no malpractice going on etc etc

00:58:52.940 well I would say to the colleges this look if your job is to protect the

00:58:58.760 public good then you shouldn't be asking me to justify why I'm saying what I am

00:59:04.760 saying it is your job as a college to demand of government why they are doing

00:59:11.840 this because the hurt is vastly more than the benefit and the vaccine is

00:59:19.760 reckless they're not asking those questions of government and that should

00:59:25.220 be one of their primary responsibilities and they're not doing it why arm of

00:59:32.360 government they're saluting in their general direction on end every issue of

00:59:37.040 public import living tobacco totally silent nowhere to be found there's

00:59:46.840 simply an arm of government all dressed up as trying to protect the public good

00:59:50.960 but they're not demanding those out those questions there was answers from

00:59:54.620 government they're shrinking from their responsibility and that too is medical

00:59:59.360 negligence because that's what they're charged to do dr. hotkinson thanks for

01:00:04.380 that. And I think it's journalistic negligence for the journalists, the fourth estate, not to be

01:00:09.960 asking more questions and giving more doctors this kind of platform, because otherwise you're

01:00:16.600 just going to end up with a skewed perception in the public. Let's then go to Dr. Phillips and see,

01:00:22.400 are you seeing anything happening in Ontario? I'm going to actually be interviewing on Thursday

01:00:28.420 the members of the liberty caucus so there are a handful of politicians stepping up but heck

01:00:34.920 they're getting de-platformed too they're they're getting kicked out of caucus and they're being

01:00:40.240 depicted as being fringy and so that's the other part of the problem is that if you want to be a

01:00:45.500 team player as a politician you uh you have to keep your mouth shut but are you seeing any movement

01:00:50.540 in ontario to do the kind of things that we've seen governor ron de santis do or the senate do

01:00:56.700 or the bringing forward alternative views so that the politicians can get educated anything

01:01:00.780 happening like that dr phillips so yeah so so we're we're in a bit of a political conundrum here

01:01:08.540 because uh much like alberta uh our our government is uh in name progressive conservative but uh um

01:01:19.660 and so the opposition is only the ndp so both parties fully support lockdowns so the only

01:01:25.740 people who have uh had the bravery to stand up to doug ford and to to um ask for for different

01:01:35.100 opinions or to suggest that we might pick a different course uh have been booted out of

01:01:39.900 caucus uh so randy hillier um uh roman baber and cara helios uh have all been been booted out and

01:01:49.820 um to be honest i'm seeing on social media they're gaining a lot of support uh because

01:01:54.780 i think even among the base of the conservative party people are not feeling at home at all

01:02:01.100 i mean most conservatives want uh care about personal liberties and freedoms right along

01:02:06.460 with their health um and so i think we're seeing a lot of grass grassroots movement uh moving in

01:02:13.260 that direction and it's slowly trickling up to to politicians as well but uh but i would say it's

01:02:19.580 it's slow it's slow and it's um um but i think i i think it's it's happening uh because we're

01:02:27.820 seeing that that liberty caucus uh grow pretty quickly and so i'm i'm really hopeful that there

01:02:33.260 will be some big changes coming let me let me then address some of the the science issues

01:02:38.540 dr hotkinson has already given us his his perspective on a few of the the contentious

01:02:43.500 issues i i own a restaurant i wear a mask when i get within someone's personal space

01:02:48.780 i wear a mask when i go grocery shopping i've just sort of gotten used to it now is it it seems to me

01:02:53.420 it's almost a symbol to everyone around you that you're taking the virus seriously and so whether

01:03:01.020 it works or not you don't want to draw attention to yourself as as as being a social misfit so i

01:03:08.380 think that there's there is there is some kind of uh there's obviously social pressure to to put it

01:03:14.620 on. I was concerned about wearing masks because of Dr. Anders Tegnell in Sweden saying, if you're

01:03:21.300 wearing the mask, same mask over and over, or if you're constantly touching your face, or

01:03:25.340 if you're handling food and things that other people are handling and not washing your hands

01:03:30.500 afterwards because you think you have this mask on and you're protected, you're actually defeating

01:03:34.140 the purpose. And his contention was that it might actually lead to more spread. So I think that

01:03:38.700 there's obviously different perspectives on this. But Dr. Modria, we've heard Dr. Hodkinson weigh in

01:03:43.640 on saying masks don't work what's your what's your view on it no i totally agree with uh with roger

01:03:50.920 the uh certainly the data study was um was persuasive but one of the interesting studies

01:03:58.680 was uh in the journal of applied physics and it was a very interesting interesting study with

01:04:04.280 different types of masks including n95 masks and if you looked at the respiratory patterns

01:04:13.160 with particles um the way they did it was quite uh quite brilliant the mass didn't keep didn't

01:04:21.560 didn't do anything there was it was squirting out the side squirting out the top squirting out the

01:04:26.200 bottom it was it was it was just it was just a waste um and roger is dr hudkinson is quite correct

01:04:34.600 there is absolutely no evidence there's no study that provided the evidence that masks

01:04:42.760 will do anything to reduce the prevalence or the incidence of um transmission so uh so

01:04:54.680 it is it's just it truly is virtue signaling and i mean i thought it was a very impressive

01:05:02.120 exchange between um um ron paul and um dr fauci dr fauci the other day and i'm sure you guys saw

01:05:11.160 that. And rather than virtue signaling, Mr. Paul used the term theater. Mr. Fauci, isn't it just

01:05:22.240 theater when someone's had the COVID-19 and they've been vaccinated and they're wearing a mask,

01:05:29.180 or in your case, two masks? Isn't that just theater? He couldn't really defend it because

01:05:35.880 there's no absolutely zero evidence to support using masks. And it's the same thing. It's the

01:05:45.680 same thing that we've seen with respect to social distancing. Now they've reduced it from

01:05:50.680 two meters to three feet. Where's the evidence for either? There is none. So social distancing,

01:05:59.080 just like masks, is a complete waste of time. As Roger has said, you know, this was a long

01:06:05.560 time ago. And I love the term. The genie was out of the bottle a long time ago. The virus has been

01:06:10.460 in circulation. If we had just done nothing, we would be all a lot better off and trillions of

01:06:18.040 dollars wealthier or trillions of dollars less in debt. And all these businesses wouldn't have

01:06:24.080 gone under and all of the other harmful things that have occurred. This has been, as has been

01:06:30.060 stated the biggest public health disaster in 100 years and uh and it's not over no let me ask dr

01:06:39.020 phillips to weigh in because i think there's probably a lot of people who you're challenging

01:06:43.580 because all we've been told now for the last number of months is we're not allowed to challenge

01:06:48.460 the idea that masks don't work and that social distancing doesn't work um and so i i just want

01:06:53.580 to see if we've got a trifecta of agreement here so what's what's your view on on mass dr phillips

01:07:00.060 Yeah, absolutely. Like, I agree with both of them. There's been RCTs that have been done on masks, especially with influenza, and they found that there was either no difference or especially in the case of cloth masks that actually increased the rate of transmission, likely through aerosolization, right, of just of you getting the mask saturated and then spreading a fog around.

01:07:23.400 um uh the other thing too there is that there was another study actually for covid in spain where

01:07:29.720 they they studied um hundreds of hundreds if not thousands of cases um and they found no association

01:07:36.160 whatsoever with mask use um and in the transmission it was only linked to the viral load of of the

01:07:42.700 person who spread the disease um but yeah so like the masks uh there's no proof they work for viral

01:07:50.780 illnesses they're used in hospitals by surgeons or even if you're in the emergency department

01:07:56.460 you'll sometimes wear a mask for a procedure right to just and that's more for bacterial

01:08:01.500 transmission you don't want to spit or get saliva or something into an open wound that's basically

01:08:06.380 what they're used for in the hospital right using them for for to prevent viral transmission is

01:08:11.260 completely new um and there's no evidence that that that they work for that and the reason is

01:08:15.900 just because if uh often virals uh viral particles are transmitted uh in an airborne way so it it

01:08:23.020 forms a little cloud around you you breathe them out and uh so the best thing you can do is actually

01:08:29.020 have good ventilation um and be outdoors right where the the basically the air gets cleared out

01:08:36.220 and that helps to prevent transmission that way um but yeah the masks themselves and especially

01:08:41.500 especially surgical or cloth masks are useless.

01:08:46.500 Oh, my goodness.

01:08:47.500 Okay.

01:08:48.500 So people have to digest what they've just heard there

01:08:50.500 because of all the things that I think are going to stay once

01:08:55.500 everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated,

01:08:58.500 I think it's social distancing and masks and handwashing.

01:09:01.500 I think that those three things are here to stay.

01:09:04.500 So some of you can comment on whether my observation is accurate

01:09:10.500 accurate on that but let me go to dr hodkinson again because people want to have more conversation

01:09:15.540 about vaccines and i should just tell you my bias going in my bias going in is that i'm pro vaccine

01:09:21.220 um and i i'm not going to take this particular one though because i'm a 49 year old woman i've

01:09:27.140 got no pre-existing conditions i've seen the health profile and recovery rate for those who

01:09:31.540 get covet i happen to believe because i was one of those kids who went to chickenpox and mumps parties

01:09:36.100 that um getting the disease itself probably confers longer lasting immunity so i've got

01:09:41.300 i've got a rationale for why i don't want to get to get the vaccine if i was over 75

01:09:46.500 i might make a different choice so dr hotkinson let me let me push it to you because um you you've

01:09:51.380 raised some concerns about the experimental nature of this vaccine and it hasn't gone through

01:09:56.980 the same amount of testing of of usual jabs so so just just give us some guidance on that because

01:10:03.780 i think i think a lot of the politicians have kind of now got us to a point where

01:10:08.100 the vaccine is the savior that it's once enough people get vaccinated we get our lives back so

01:10:13.700 to tell us why you think that that might not be the case

01:10:23.380 sorry dr hawkinson you're still muted again you'll just have to unmute yourself there

01:10:29.220 yes

01:10:33.780 they're using not our savior they introduced all these ridiculous restrictions with absolutely no

01:10:43.900 evidence in medicine to do so they're getting the heat from doing so and now they're saying 0.99

01:10:51.300 we'll only take the dogs off if you're stupid enough to take this experimental vaccine they're 1.00

01:10:57.080 merely changing the game to get themselves off the hook it's as simple as that we don't need 1.00

01:11:03.640 this vaccine it's unnecessary it should certainly be voluntary and it should never be forced on

01:11:11.000 pregnant women and children it's a reckless massive medical experiment that may well work very

01:11:18.720 successfully but the history of vaccines is rather disturbing you can have all kinds of unusual

01:11:25.180 complications coming out of the woodwork a couple of years later we just don't know so it should

01:11:31.760 not be used because first of all it's not necessary there are ways of protecting

01:11:39.600 and vaccines may be quite increased have increased danger for for elderly people

01:11:44.800 so yeah that's my position on on they're just changing the game and i think that's despicable

01:11:52.400 to get off the hook forcing people to take the vaccine is absolutely despicable i i see why you

01:11:59.760 framed it the way you have let me just get you to elaborate a bit more on the not necessary part

01:12:04.880 because i do want to have a conversation about therapeutics we did a full uh two-hour conversation

01:12:10.640 with dr john about some of the the promising treatments but is that why you would say

01:12:15.200 it's not necessary is because there are emerging effective therapeutics that if you do get covid

01:12:20.720 and you get treated with the therapeutic early you don't progress uh to the worst form of the of the

01:12:25.760 disease? Yes but they're certainly not needed for the working well who are going to shake it off

01:12:36.800 just like you do an ordinary flu. For the elderly in nursing homes which are already essentially

01:12:43.520 self-quarried there are ways of controlling that as I said with infection control mechanisms that

01:12:48.240 are well described. If people are sick enough to go to hospital and some of these new drugs turn

01:12:55.040 out to be effective i think it's fantastic obviously i'm very much in favor of that

01:13:00.400 but more important than anything is to try and prove

01:13:05.120 actions from occurring and there's there's a a substantial body of evidence now particularly

01:13:10.960 in the uk and sp has an extremely powerful protective role in against getting severe

01:13:21.360 covid and is useful for people that have severe covid it's not being implemented um widespread

01:13:30.160 although many doctors are taking it i certainly do 5 000 international units a day is shown to be

01:13:37.360 a most powerful boost of the immune system which helps to ward off the potential of getting a

01:13:43.200 severe infection so that there's there's can be done uh some mistakes were made earlier on with

01:13:50.400 with um you know with ventilators in new york adding to the the death rate there but i think

01:13:56.160 it's very when you're looking at these statistics not to go cherry picking you know you have to look

01:14:02.560 at the global picture and you know comparisons of things that are sort of different in in a

01:14:10.080 significant way without comparing finland with sweden sweden is has more or less the same stats

01:14:16.880 as the rest of europe more or less there are exceptions but more or less the same look at

01:14:22.080 the difference between california and florida and nexus you know california there's massive massive

01:14:29.920 you know shutdowns and mandates and masks compared with with florida you know as i said before

01:14:38.480 politicians have got to get their head around this that the virus is everywhere and we simply

01:14:45.680 have to accommodate to it in practical ways that don't involve the loss of freedoms and don't

01:14:51.680 involve lockdowns and all these other measures it should be life as normal as per the great

01:14:58.240 barrington declaration with only focused protection for the elderly period that is it

01:15:06.560 that's why this thing is so incredibly mad doc yeah you did cut out just a little bit again most

01:15:12.880 of your what you're saying is very clear but some people i think uh i just want to make sure that

01:15:17.040 um i when you said you were taking 5 000 international units and most doctors are i

01:15:22.000 took that to mean vitamin d is what you were talking about yes that's right vitamin d

01:15:27.520 five thousand five thousand international units a day is is dirt cheap it's totally non-toxic

01:15:34.560 every canadian in the winter is vitamin d deficient guaranteed what's owned what's not

01:15:41.040 realized by the general public is the incredible jewel role vitamin d it's not just with calcium

01:15:47.680 and bone metabolism it has a totally separate powerful way of if you like toning up the immune

01:15:55.200 system to fight off invaders it's been extremely well established and it's not being

01:16:03.360 let me get uh who refuse to advocate it on the right basis and you're so you're very right i

01:16:10.400 mean i've pressured the government on this as well and uh those who are advising the government and

01:16:14.880 they refuse they call they call the discussion of any of these types of therapeutics once again

01:16:20.960 fringy and i i think there's got to be nothing more mainstream than taking vitamin d

01:16:26.000 in a northern climate that seems to be a very i mean i do that and so and it seems like it's a

01:16:31.760 fairly a common uh way for for doctors to to make sure that their their patients stay healthy but

01:16:37.360 let me get dr modry to weigh in on that talk to me about how about your view on these vaccines

01:16:43.280 because i i i understand it's a controversial issue i understand that there's grave peril in

01:16:50.400 us even having this conversation and making people vaccine hesitant, and that in itself

01:16:54.880 could cause deplatforming. So I understand that we're just trying to be balanced in this discussion.

01:16:59.360 And so I just want to see what your perspective is on it, Dr. Modri.

01:17:02.320 Sure. Well, before I tell you what my perspective is, let me tell you about a Gallup poll

01:17:08.320 reported on March the 2nd of 2021. 51% of healthcare workers and first responders

01:17:16.240 in the U.S. are unconvinced of the merits of getting vaccinated. In Switzerland, it's 50%.

01:17:25.000 Germany, it's 70%. In France and India, it's 50%. Of physicians and nurses and frontline workers

01:17:35.500 are not convinced about taking the vaccine. Now, as far as I'm concerned, I'm happy to take the

01:17:44.040 vaccine as the last person to take the vaccine. It'll probably be J&J. 0.99

01:17:53.080 Can you elaborate on why you like Johnson & Johnson?

01:17:57.880 Yeah, I don't like needles and it's one shot. No, I'm kidding. It's more than that.

01:18:04.880 It's the way in which that vaccine is prepared. It's not an mRNA vaccine.

01:18:12.240 and it's delivered by a common adenovirus so that would be my that would be my preference

01:18:21.320 if I have to be vaccinated but I'm I'm but to be honest with you I think there are so many

01:18:28.400 good therapies now and coming and one of the most impressive that's coming up and I know we didn't

01:18:38.360 quite get into that. But for me, it's a reason. I would rather get, to be honest, I'd rather get

01:18:43.600 COVID-19 and be treated than have any vaccine. Given that I've got a 99.96% probability of

01:18:52.400 surviving COVID-19. But there's a drug called Aplidin, that's the trade name, the generic name

01:18:59.860 is Plitidespin. I don't know if you've heard of this, Roger, but it's for the treatment of

01:19:06.400 multiple myeloma. But it's being studied in multiple centers in the US right now, about a

01:19:13.200 dozen. And they're doing, they finished the phase two trials. It's so far, it appears to be 30 times

01:19:19.740 more effective than remdesivir. So to me, that sounds to me like a virtual cure, possibly, if

01:19:29.300 you get it early enough. So, so, and I'm sure there's going to be other therapies that are

01:19:35.020 going to come along as well. If there's one thing that COVID-19 has done is it certainly

01:19:40.240 stimulated a lot of research into viral therapies and rejuvenating that which in the past could

01:19:51.780 have had benefit like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. And there's probably others out there as

01:19:57.820 well, hitherto unknown to me. But still, that's my feeling about the vaccines. And it seems

01:20:04.700 like almost 50 percent of the medical profession including nursing and and physicians according to

01:20:10.220 that gallup study feel exactly the way i do rather reticent to take the to take the vaccine

01:20:19.820 dr phillips bailed out i thought it maybe he didn't want me to ask him this question

01:20:25.340 i just want to say i'm not an anti-vaccine just not for me got it and uh and i mentioned why i

01:20:31.980 didn't think i would be the best candidate i don't mind waiting either i don't think that

01:20:36.380 it's something that necessarily would would be optimal for me either for the reasons i said

01:20:41.660 but let's go to dr phillips tell me the kind of advice that you're giving to your patient

01:20:45.980 on these various vaccines yeah so i mean that's a difficult one um i i agree like i i i have

01:20:55.580 concerns about these vaccines i i'm pro vaccine i've had all my vaccines and many more uh but

01:21:03.100 what sets these vaccines apart is uh the development time like it's vaccines are

01:21:08.540 usually developed over years and years uh because there are it's you're it's not like a drug right

01:21:15.020 so it's when you get the injection of the vaccine it produces an antibody that ideally is designed

01:21:20.940 to to be in you for life and that antibody is the drug and so that is a long-term treatment that's

01:21:27.900 going to be with you for the rest of your life and when you're giving a long-term treatment like that

01:21:31.980 you need long-term data on what the side effects are and uh and so a lot of these vaccines were

01:21:39.660 only tested over months right and they were they were given emergency use authorization uh prior

01:21:45.260 to the normal approval process that other vaccines go through and uh and i find that concerning um

01:21:52.060 if i'm going to be recommending a long-term treatment i think we need long-term independent

01:21:56.780 safety data um uh before we administer those because like in the the hippocratic oath like

01:22:04.140 or just in medical ethics in general we we um we we vow to do no harm right like so that's the

01:22:12.140 first thing that we do at the very least don't harm people and so we need to know that we're

01:22:17.580 giving treatments that it's not going to harm them and i don't think you can give a long-term

01:22:22.620 treatment uh without long-term data and so that's that's my philosophy around these vaccines they

01:22:28.140 may very well prove out prove to be safe at some point uh but i think we need to have the data on

01:22:33.340 that uh before we can make that judgment i i do have a number of people saying that the drug

01:22:39.180 companies say that m rna viruses or vaccines have been in in development for years there's a

01:22:45.580 actually a company in calgary and uh edmonton i think calgary providence m uh providence has been

01:22:53.180 they say they've been working with m rna vaccines since 2015 so just square the circle for me on

01:23:00.540 that one because um you'll have the drug companies come back and say no no no we've been we've been

01:23:04.460 working on this for years i'll go to dr phillips on that go ahead yeah so so even if mrna vaccines

01:23:10.540 have been around i don't think they definitely not been around in general use in the general

01:23:14.300 human population for sure but regardless um every vaccine is unique it's all every one of them is a

01:23:22.060 unique recipe that can have differing um impact on our immune system all you need to do is change a

01:23:28.940 few nucleotides and it can resemble a human protein right and and that can cause an autoimmune

01:23:35.740 reaction so just because mrna vaccines have been around for a while doesn't mean that these ones

01:23:40.540 have and so every every vaccine needs to be judged on its own merits because each one is unique and

01:23:48.140 i've heard a lot of talk like from the drug companies from governments that they can just oh

01:23:52.940 they can just tweak a few uh nucleotides and adjust to the variance but no that is a very

01:23:58.780 unique and completely new drug because it produces a new protein in the body that might uh interact

01:24:06.220 in a different way with our immune system so so i'm so i i'm not for hasty hastily developed uh

01:24:12.620 medical technologies um until that you have the long-term data and we definitely should not be

01:24:17.820 updating these and tweaking them last minute uh thinking that it's going to be just as safe as

01:24:24.060 as previous versions oh my goodness okay we've got to deal with a couple of other topics before

01:24:30.140 i ask you how the heck we're going to get out of this because having been a former politician

01:24:35.100 having seen how locked in these politicians are if if anyone goes to them and say okay

01:24:40.860 no masks no social distancing no hand washing kids go back to school 100 with all their activities

01:24:47.580 just do focus protection of the seniors in nursing homes make sure you got vitamin d and ivermectin

01:24:52.700 on hand i'm pretty sure we're just going to be told no and so i want to see if there's a a

01:24:57.980 political path forward on this um that that that will allow us to see the at the end of the light

01:25:03.100 but but first i i or the light at the end of the tunnel first let me ask the question about uh pcr

01:25:09.820 tests because i i know the politicians know this i i started seeing bbc and new york times reports

01:25:17.580 on this going all the way back to september so i i tried to stay in the mainstream media when i

01:25:22.620 was reporting on the air and they said that the problem is with these cycle thresholds that if

01:25:28.540 you amplify the viral particles too many times it can't tell the difference between a live virus and

01:25:34.940 a dead viral particle and what's more it can stay in your blood system for months and so when i look

01:25:40.860 at all of these pcr tests and i see 10 000 people have gone and got tested i'm wondering first of

01:25:46.460 all who's getting tested just for giggles um why wouldn't you just get tested if you were sick

01:25:52.220 but but number two how many of those are false positive because the the cycle threshold is set

01:25:57.340 too high let me let me see if i'm on the right track first with dr hodkinson is that is there

01:26:02.540 is there some other way that we should be approaching the testing

01:26:05.020 hodkinson frozen again let me go to dr modry first and we'll see if we can circle back to

01:26:17.400 dr hodkinson when he's unfrozen go ahead dr modry is there how do you look at these pcr tests have

01:26:22.780 described it correctly yeah for the most part the the the cycle the the the

01:26:34.300 cycles the number of cycle the yeah the cycle times so what we know is that if

01:26:44.080 you've got cycle times over 40 you've virtually got a hundred percent false

01:26:50.920 positives if that's what it takes to diagnose COVID-19 if it's 30 or less you've got a high

01:26:59.320 probability I understand that the U of A we're using cycle times of roughly 35 and if that's

01:27:10.920 the case there's a significant number of false positives that are occurring which is part of

01:27:18.360 the reason why I raised the question in my open letter to the premier with respect to diagnosis

01:27:28.040 of people in the general population who are asymptomatic versus people who are admitted

01:27:33.480 to hospital versus people who are admitted to the intensive care unit. And I'm assured

01:27:40.680 that the people who have tested positive for COVID-19

01:27:47.580 based on a PCR cycle time that the U of A is using

01:27:54.320 is giving an accurate diagnosis.

01:27:56.940 Personally, I don't believe that

01:27:58.720 because if they're using cycle times of 35,

01:28:04.520 I would suggest that you could come into the hospital

01:28:10.160 with an arrow through your head, and you'd have a PCR study done with a cycle time of 35,

01:28:20.960 and they'd say, yeah, you've got COVID-19. So, I mean, this is the ridiculousness of it. So you

01:28:26.820 can't, I personally just can't believe the numbers that are being reported by Alberta Health.

01:28:34.220 and it's fundamentally based on because it is based on a flawed test and and that incidentally

01:28:43.360 is the genesis of that international class action suit is the PCR test that's what they're focusing

01:28:50.600 on as the as the as the first item to attack with respect to you know the lockdowns etc so

01:29:01.580 So, you know, and I can't get a clear answer, but I did get as close to an answer as I can

01:29:07.940 today. And it appears as though the cycle times are around 35 at the University of Alberta,

01:29:13.340 and it's probably throughout Alberta as well, wherever they're doing PCR tests. But Roger is

01:29:18.340 really more of an expert on this than I am. And I'm sure Patrick would have something to say.

01:29:24.020 Perfect. Let me ask both of them to weigh in. I think we got you back there, Dr. Hodkinson.

01:29:28.120 And so to what I mean, OK, if you can get a reasonably accurate result at a cycle threshold of 18, then why not just have a mandate that you move the cycle threshold down to 18 so that we can have some confidence?

01:29:41.120 It seems like there's a way to salvage this test or maybe not. What would be your approach to testing?

01:29:50.480 Dr. Hodkinson. No, there is no way of salvaging a lousy test.

01:29:54.680 there is no way of salvaging this lousy test um the the the whole essence of it is um how many

01:30:05.600 true positives you want to pick up recognizing that if you don't do enough cycles that you'll

01:30:10.420 be missing some the opposite theory is being applied we'll we'll we'll amplify the hell out

01:30:17.720 this to make sure that we don't miss a single case but by doing so you will have a huge number

01:30:25.880 of false positives in people who are asymptomatic in the 70 to 90 range my estimate in alberta using

01:30:32.520 the government's own statistics is that they have approximately a 70 false positive rate

01:30:37.880 for people who are asymptomatic and are testing positive that has a huge multiplier effect on

01:30:44.760 the workforce because each one of those false positives takes out 10 more people you have a

01:30:50.920 10 times multiple of this monstrously inaccurate test in the first place the way this test is done

01:30:58.040 is so exquisitely sensitive to technique you cannot pull a tech off reading pap smears

01:31:04.840 or doing chemistry and put them in front of this machine and ask them to do it effectively

01:31:10.600 the minutiae of how this is done in the trade is well known and it's also well known that when you

01:31:18.340 try and ramp it up into hundreds if not thousands of times more tests than you did last year

01:31:24.200 you're roping in people who haven't a clue how to operate this machine and so you get a massive

01:31:31.420 number of false positives but that's beside the point this test is not needed in the first place

01:31:38.280 we don't need asymptomatic testing it has no purpose whatsoever except driving

01:31:43.980 hysteria and giving politicians an extra reason to double down the only testing

01:31:50.220 that's needed is when people present to hospital with sufficiently severe

01:31:54.180 disease that you're considering admitting them and then you want a very

01:31:58.320 accurate test and that test is called DNA sequencing by the Sanger method he

01:32:04.200 got the Nobel Prize for it that's how the genome project was done it has ways

01:32:09.060 of internally validating the result and at a much lower test volume with that

01:32:14.920 situation implies it it's perfectly feasible to scale up Sanger sequencing

01:32:22.340 as the only test that's done they have not done that they're not ignorant to

01:32:28.140 the technology it just doesn't apply itself to mass testing of the 1.00

01:32:33.440 asymptomatic population which should never be done in the first place it has no purpose and it drives

01:32:39.680 hysteria and it's madly inaccurate let me see if dr phillips if i can pose uh if i can pose a theory

01:32:48.620 about why they want to keep on doing this broad testing and it's because we keep on having again

01:32:54.580 we're sort of victim to these computer models that never pan out but because there's a 10 to 14 day

01:33:00.920 period where between when you get a positive and when it might manifest in hospitalization they're

01:33:08.280 trying to get an early indicator of whether their hospital surge capacity is going to get

01:33:16.120 overwhelmed and whether their icus are going to get overwhelmed so if that's the premise for it

01:33:21.880 is there another way to do that i mean i've seen i know it sounds maybe a little gross but i think

01:33:26.280 they do wastewater testing and they can see surges and viral levels just from the pee coming out of

01:33:33.080 college dormitories like it seems to me maybe there's another way to get that early warning sign

01:33:38.920 rather than be disrupting the lives of every family whose kid tests positive because someone

01:33:43.640 in the class ended up getting diagnosed with covid and that's happening all over the kind

01:33:48.520 of disruption that's happening in the schools and the families that are related to that so

01:33:52.680 so let me put it to you dr phillips is that is that a legitimate reason

01:33:56.360 for us to do widespread testing is to get an early warning sign in the

01:34:00.040 hospitals i don't think so really um i think uh

01:34:05.160 we need to look at um basically the patient who's in front of

01:34:09.640 you right so you need to look at the costs and the benefits

01:34:12.520 to the patient in front of you on whether or not you're going to perform

01:34:15.880 a test on them so there needs to be some sort of a benefit

01:34:19.000 in order to be doing that and so otherwise it becomes unethical like to be able to perform

01:34:24.600 tests and especially to make them mandatory on some people um you need to know that there's a

01:34:29.640 benefit to that person to from knowing that so we have lots of examples of this uh throughout

01:34:35.000 medicine if you look at uh for example the psa test for prostate cancer there's lots of false

01:34:40.680 positives in that and so in order to ethically um perform that test rather than trying to use

01:34:47.480 it as a a way to predict uh urology resource use like later in the future from prostate cancer

01:34:55.320 rather what we do is we look at that patient what's what's this test going to benefit you

01:34:59.320 because there's a lot of harms that go along with any kind of testing uh so in the case of the psa

01:35:05.000 test it's going to cause a lot of worry they might need a biopsy that they they wouldn't have needed

01:35:09.080 otherwise rather than waiting for symptoms and then what we need to look at and see did this

01:35:14.040 really improve their lives overall did it save lives and what they found with the psa test is

01:35:19.000 no it didn't um so as much as you think catching cancer early is sometimes helpful what they found 0.92

01:35:24.680 is often it did more harm than good somebody got had a they found a blep like a bloop like basically

01:35:31.000 an increase in their psa uh and it uh wouldn't have panned out wouldn't have harmed their life

01:35:36.920 but they ended up getting this biopsy that caused damage to their body but i think the thing the

01:35:41.560 The same goes for these PCR tests.

01:35:44.520 And we have to think of the harm that it causes,

01:35:47.100 not only to that person.

01:35:48.900 So think of those children, right,

01:35:50.900 who test positive in schools,

01:35:52.520 like where they're testing thousands

01:35:54.000 and only a few come back positive,

01:35:56.720 which are likely false positives, right?

01:35:59.020 Considering the small amount that do that.

01:36:01.800 And then the social harms that come

01:36:04.020 from that child needing to stay home,

01:36:07.260 their family not being able to work.

01:36:10.120 And what was the real consequence? That child was never really at risk, right, of COVID,

01:36:15.880 right? They weren't going to be harmed by it. It's basically a cold for children,

01:36:19.400 right? So I think using testing people and subjecting them to the harms of testing,

01:36:26.360 which we really need to discuss, for the benefit of society can be detrimental, right? And I don't

01:36:34.680 think uh it's it follows medical ethics because we need to look at the person in front of us and be

01:36:40.040 is this test going to benefit you and i'd say for the majority of the population it wouldn't

01:36:45.160 the who is as has agreed on this actually they've they put out uh uh in january they put out a

01:36:51.640 statement saying that they're concerned about false positives and that we should not be diagnosing a

01:36:56.840 case of covid based on pcr alone uh we should it should be based uh upon symptoms uh like along

01:37:04.760 with the pcr test and if they don't have any symptoms you should draw a second pcr test

01:37:09.640 all with the cycle thresholds less than 30. so we're not even following the who guidance we've

01:37:15.080 gone uh we've gone a little rogue here and i think this test is being really misused wow okay so doc

01:37:21.400 dr phillips before i go and talk about the broader societal harms because i i see you want to talk

01:37:25.800 about that and i know that the other docs do too you're in a hospital don't wouldn't you want to

01:37:32.760 know what the general level of infection is in your region to know if you're going to get hit

01:37:37.960 like you're you'd be the guy who's dealing with this wouldn't you like i i'm just wanting to make

01:37:43.000 sure that um that that it's not giving you any useful information to see case counts i want to

01:37:48.680 i want to just double check on that because my goodness we have been bombarded with case count

01:37:53.320 numbers incessantly from the beginning of this and you're just telling me that

01:37:57.480 for you as a frontline doctor you're not finding that the way we're doing it is useful at all am

01:38:02.120 i am i hearing you right oh i think i think i mean there's a little bit of a predictive value uh

01:38:08.120 towards uh the hospitalizations with the case numbers um but what we really care about is

01:38:14.040 people who are sick um and so that's going to depend on the age like all these uh positive

01:38:19.240 tests among children or or young people like that that's not not really that relevant in the case

01:38:25.480 of the flu um we didn't test the general population we only tested people who came into hospital

01:38:32.760 and and we did fine with that it's it's helpful information within the hospital so we can isolate

01:38:38.680 people who are sick right and to prevent them us from spreading it around the hospital so yeah

01:38:43.800 it's absolutely helpful for sick people within the hospital for us to know that information but

01:38:49.240 i think with it with the general population i think it does more harm than good it creates a

01:38:53.480 lot of fear it's it's uh gets people scared um it creates a lot of social stigma i've i've had

01:39:00.760 patients who've tested positive for covid who've uh been chased out of town they've had death

01:39:05.400 threats right especially in small towns um people being told get out of our town how could you bring

01:39:10.280 this virus to to us here like and so that causes harm and we need we need to consider that and

01:39:16.200 there's not a lot of privacy in small towns i can tell you that in ontario people will find out who

01:39:21.160 tested positive um regardless of confidentiality in the hospital people have a way of doing that

01:39:27.240 and so i think um when we're performing a test it needs to it needs to be for the benefit of that

01:39:33.560 person and not for the benefit of just society all right i i have interviewed dr ari jaffe on

01:39:40.360 mainstream media i managed to sneak him in before i i left the uh the air and i actually had him on

01:39:46.760 twice so i'm very familiar with the different measures that he's looking at so let me go to

01:39:52.920 dr modri first and just give me your sense of uh what the harms are likely to be because we need

01:40:00.040 to know as we're monitoring this over the next year or three or five maybe you should give us

01:40:06.280 the time frame what is it we're going to start seeing as the consequences of lockdown not the

01:40:12.680 the law i know that there are long coveted long haulers and there's issues that we'll have to

01:40:17.000 deal with long term from people who haven't fully recovered from it but i'm talking about those who

01:40:21.640 did not get sick but suffered the harms because of lockdowns how's that going to manifest over

01:40:26.120 the next few years what what stats should we be looking at to see what the what the true level of

01:40:29.880 harm was well before i answer that i want to just pose a question um and we'll just leave it as a

01:40:38.040 rhetorical question for the audience should we pay for anything in health care any diagnostic

01:40:46.680 or therapeutic procedure that by evidence does not produce a health benefit and the pcr studies

01:40:54.760 testing asymptomatic people is a waste of money a waste of time and is in itself in and of itself

01:41:03.480 a health hazard as patrick has just stated so think about that question should we pay for 0.83

01:41:10.040 anything in health care that by evidence does not produce a health benefit so that's parenthetic a

01:41:17.480 little bit to the conversation but there's an opportunity to save enormous funds in health

01:41:24.280 care if you applied that principle. Now, with respect to the harm from lockdowns, my goodness,

01:41:30.280 I mean, it stems from everything to marital breakups, to infant and crime, to lost jobs,

01:41:42.040 lost businesses, massive economic disruption, trillions and trillions of dollars of debt.

01:41:50.620 And, you know, if you're a conspiracy theorist, this all might be, you know, resulting in what has been termed the Great Reset, whatever that really means.

01:42:07.460 But fundamentally, society has changed as a result, not of COVID-19, but as a result of draconian government interventions. And COVID-19 didn't do this. Government did this to us.

01:42:25.060 I've got someone saying the feedback is bad once again.

01:42:27.620 I don't know if it's Dr. Phillips or Dr. Hodkinson who's not on mute,

01:42:32.020 but let's just continue on.

01:42:34.580 I'll go back on mute.

01:42:36.520 So, Doc, yeah, continue on this.

01:42:38.860 Talk a little bit more then, as you say,

01:42:41.520 whatever harms we're going to see in future,

01:42:43.220 someone's saying, are you saying we're going to be locked down for three years?

01:42:45.600 No.

01:42:46.220 I'm saying that the consequences of lockdowns are going to be felt

01:42:50.000 for at least three years or more,

01:42:51.420 and I want you to just sort of elaborate on those things.

01:42:53.780 Well, I think, you know, if you looked at Ari Jaffe's research, he indicated we've lost 250 million quality adjusted life years.

01:43:05.860 And, you know, so I think we're going to see the consequence of what has happened as a result, again, not of COVID-19, but as a result of what governments have done to us with these lockdowns for decades to come.

01:43:21.520 I think it's a real serious problem.

01:43:26.660 It's probably, as Bhattacharya said, it's the greatest hoax on society, and it's caused more harm.

01:43:35.720 I just can't possibly—this would be like a nuclear bomb going off in every city, in my estimation.

01:43:44.880 I mean, this is just probably the worst thing that could happen to society.

01:43:49.520 and our elected leaders are responsible for this and they will be held to account

01:43:58.760 and they will be held to account, some of them at the next election, some maybe the election after

01:44:04.260 that, but there will be a reckoning and it is coming like a freight train. Let me go to Dr.

01:44:11.580 Hawkinson because that was the word that you used that made me unable to have you on the air and it

01:44:17.900 was when you use the word hoax and the way I took it to mean is yes SARS-CoV-2

01:44:24.080 is real yes COVID-19 the disease is real but the hysteria surrounding the

01:44:31.080 reportage on it and the government reaction to it is the hoax maybe you can

01:44:36.080 if I misunderstood you I thought so tell me what you think the

01:44:41.420 long-term consequences are going to be of the lockdowns it is the biggest hoax

01:44:50.780 ever perpetrated on humanity it's a in a scale all of its own it is massive but

01:44:59.420 at a personal level at a micro level with all the examples that we've

01:45:05.180 discussed and at the macro level with the scale of borrowing which is

01:45:10.400 unprecedented in human history people don't understand zeros and billions anymore our 0.98

01:45:18.640 children will be paying off for this idiocy for the rest of their lives with increased taxes 1.00

01:45:25.360 with reduced services evaluation or whatever mix thereof it's on that scale of idiocy and it was 0.99

01:45:33.840 all totally unnecessary i would like to reflect back upon one word that you used earlier on

01:45:41.120 danielle if i may because it's central to this debate and it's the word case

01:45:48.240 positive tests most of which are false positives are not cases in medicine we call the case

01:45:57.440 is someone who's actually sick these numbers are being presented to the general population

01:46:02.800 as if these numbers represent sick people they do not the vast majority of these people are perfectly

01:46:10.160 well and it's not surprising that they have recovery because if you repeat a false positive

01:46:16.560 test you're going to get a negative test next time just because negative does not mean that

01:46:22.000 they are recovered guess what they never had the infection in the first place it's a total misuse

01:46:30.160 of the word just like the statistics are being used you can say that there's a increased risk

01:46:36.720 of death in 75 year olds with flu morbidities that's maybe five times 45 times the flu yes

01:46:42.880 that's right but if if i could express those statistics the other way perhaps that would

01:46:48.160 be more reassuring to the general public and this is never done for an individual to say that your

01:46:54.800 risk with disease x is 99 is is your risk of your likelihood of surviving is 99 with the flu whereas

01:47:08.480 it's 96 with covid the average person would strike that off but it's the this the statistics are

01:47:16.640 being distorted by saying it's four or five times more than what it was with the flu yes it was but

01:47:21.920 it's a very small number to start with so they're constantly fear-mongering to drive justification

01:47:30.480 for what they're doing and now of course the latest one of the variants well as dr modri said

01:47:35.920 rna virus is always mutated so did so do flu viruses and it's nothing new and even if this

01:47:44.240 variant is more transmissible that's a good thing it will mean that there will be faster herd immunity

01:47:51.360 excellent it's not going to kill people it's simply going to make it easier to resist next

01:47:58.320 year when another variant comes around so they're constantly scaremongering to drive fear that then

01:48:06.800 justifies their actions which themselves have no evidence based in medicine well and so we'll go

01:48:17.840 to a question i want you to think about it now because i'll come back to you on it how do we get

01:48:22.480 out of this with all that being a given before i do i just want dr phillips to weigh in on the

01:48:27.840 long-term effects that you're likely to see like stories i used to get when i was on radio were

01:48:32.160 just heartbreaking i still remember one of my i think i need uh dr hotkins i might need you to

01:48:38.880 to go on mute again but i i think one of the ones that i remember was a grandma who got in touch

01:48:43.680 with me saying that her 10-year-old grandson was terrified that he was going to get sick and die

01:48:51.120 or that he was going to get sick and transmitted to family members that they were going to die

01:48:55.440 i just don't know what we're doing to the mental health of our kids yeah absolutely and and that's

01:49:01.120 something i'm seeing all the time especially during the worst of the lockdowns um uh children

01:49:07.200 are not doing well um with schools shut down um and also with all these social distancing measures

01:49:15.040 children are like little sponges they they take in all these things and so uh and and their

01:49:20.800 impressions last for years and decades and possibly the rest of their lives so we're teaching

01:49:25.520 kids right that they're a danger to others others are a danger to them if you go too close and you

01:49:31.840 hug your friend you might kill grandma right and so they're hearing these things and they're

01:49:35.840 believing them they like they will 100 believe them and especially when we act accordingly right

01:49:41.960 uh and uh we punish we punish uh normal social behaviors like playing and expressing their

01:49:49.200 faces and and talking during lunch right which is banned here in ontario um um it's gonna like

01:49:58.400 i think that's gonna have the biggest consequence in our society because these children are being

01:50:02.720 traumatized on a massive scale and they are going to be the people who are running our society

01:50:09.840 someday and if you want to look at what happens when you have a mass trauma happen to a population

01:50:16.580 you can just look to china right they had they had the great leap forward they had the cultural

01:50:21.740 revolution where massive changes happen to society and massive trauma and what often happens is they 1.00

01:50:29.680 they adopt a dictatorial lifestyle like they they um they they view society in a different way and

01:50:36.080 i think that can have massive consequences for the way that we live our lives um and so these

01:50:41.200 poor children are going to have major mental health issues um and uh it's going to be difficult to to

01:50:48.880 fix uh i think it's possible i think we can turn it around now but with a lot of work uh but that's

01:50:55.360 that's just touching on the children right because there's just so much more we we have a massively

01:51:00.080 expensive health care system it's been top-notch honestly it's it's we've had a great wonderful

01:51:05.760 health care system but it costs a lot of money and that money is gone right it's it's not just

01:51:13.360 like it's already gone we're running it all off debt massive amounts of debt that levels of debt

01:51:19.200 that we've never had before so i think the fact is like the funding for our health care system

01:51:23.680 is already gone it's just gonna the debt's gonna run out at some point and i think we're gonna see

01:51:29.120 uh that cancer care um stroke care heart attacks icu all those things are going to become

01:51:36.240 unaffordable to this country we need an economy of private businesses they are the ones who who

01:51:43.280 pay for our public health care system and without without private business without small business

01:51:48.400 without people living their lives as they see fit and generating an economy we can't have all these

01:51:53.920 public goods that we've enjoyed for decades and so i think we're going to see some massive changes

01:51:59.520 massive cuts and some a lot of psychological trauma that's going to manifest um over the next

01:52:04.800 few years okay dr phillips you've just given me psychological trauma i'm feeling anxiety here so

01:52:10.000 we've got to try to give a measure of hope about how we're going to get out of this because the

01:52:15.440 obvious ways of getting out of it are not from your perspective from what we've discussed not

01:52:21.920 medically sound it's just theater again like let's have the theater of everyone getting vaccinated

01:52:27.600 and the theater of still wearing masks and the theater of continuing some of these restrictions

01:52:31.840 and the theater of a vaccination passport but we we need to know how we really deal with this so

01:52:37.920 that the next time a new novel coronavirus or adenovirus or whatever type of virus arrives

01:52:45.200 we don't have governments doing this to us again so let me start with dr hodkinson and see if you

01:52:51.280 if you've got the pathway out sir let us know please we're all dying to hear it

01:53:00.320 oh sorry i made you mute now you're still muted if you could unmute and i'll go on mute

01:53:05.760 i i'm not going to give you an out i'm going to give you a much worse scenario

01:53:09.680 this hasn't been mentioned on and people really need to pay attention to what i'm going to say

01:53:16.800 the likelihood is not proven but probably that this virus was a result of what's called gain

01:53:24.800 of function experiments which bizarrely are intended to make a virus more infectious in

01:53:31.520 order to study it and help to treat it in the future that gain of function research was funded

01:53:38.880 by fauci against obama's explicit prohibition

01:53:45.520 he offloaded it to wuhan and in all probability this was not a china virus

01:53:51.920 but an american virus that was offloaded for research in china now that's yet to be proven

01:53:58.560 but the big point is this gain-of-function research is the scariest thing for humanity

01:54:05.200 there is much more serious than nuclear war you need this this technology is not rocket science

01:54:13.360 a rogue state like north korea or iran could do it easily you can create monster viruses in a

01:54:21.760 laboratory and that particular lab in wuhan was notorious for poor biosafety known by the state

01:54:29.280 department before fauci offloaded that research so the big lesson from covid this is a walk in the

01:54:36.800 park compared with what could be unleashed on humanity because of this mad focus on gain of

01:54:44.800 function research it should stop there should be there should be an international agreement

01:54:51.200 that it doesn't happen anywhere for any reason whatsoever because no lab is 100 watertight

01:54:59.280 Okay, now you got me even more terrified. Let's see if we can move to see if there's another path forward. I guess this is the thing is that we did have some recognition that this gain of function research should stop. But is there any authority that would be able to stop it?

01:55:20.420 you think that would be something the world health organization could do or

01:55:24.100 if the u.n wanted to put itself to a useful purpose that that would be

01:55:27.540 something that they could coordinate do you share

01:55:30.260 dr hotkinson's concerns dr modri

01:55:37.860 one more if you could go off mute dr modri go ahead

01:55:41.860 yeah no i agree with what roger said with respect to gain of function

01:55:46.900 gain of function can be, can result in a more virulent virus, no question about it. And it can

01:55:56.520 also result in better understanding of how to treat the virus. So, because that's another

01:56:03.580 function. But he's quite right about the concern to be raised. There is some evidence and I've

01:56:12.020 seen, I don't know if it was accurate, but viruses in nature can't be patented. There is a patent on

01:56:22.680 COVID-19 in the US. And so I think Roger is correct that this did occur. This was developed

01:56:34.040 in the US. There was a tremendous amount of medical pushback to stop the gain of function

01:56:40.140 research. And so with funding from the U.S. that Fauci had received, they moved that research to

01:56:48.380 Wuhan. So Roger is absolutely correct as far as the information I have reviewed as well.

01:56:56.960 So how do we get out from this? Well, I guess probably the only solution is for governments

01:57:07.940 to change their view as to what needs to be done with respect to managing COVID-19 and its variants

01:57:20.160 and future viruses with a commitment never to do this sort of thing again. And so for the electorate

01:57:31.220 out there in Alberta and throughout Canada, they've got to ask themselves, what government

01:57:36.600 should we elect that will never abrogate our freedoms and rights again? And perhaps if you

01:57:46.680 ask that one question and you look at which parties are running to be elected in the next

01:57:59.920 election, which parties will guarantee put in a constitution that they will never abridge or

01:58:09.660 abrogate individuals' freedoms and rights like this ever again? I think that's probably one of

01:58:17.140 the only things that we can do because government has so much control over our lives. And I don't

01:58:27.760 have any other better solutions. We've already discussed the reality that there are effective

01:58:37.960 therapies and more effective therapies coming down the line. And so I think we need to ensure

01:58:47.720 that governments aren't fear-mongering in the future and think about who you vote for in the

01:58:55.980 next election great advice and we will be talking with a as i mentioned the liberty caucus members

01:59:02.820 all the politicians and independents who are standing up who are who are assembling that same

01:59:07.900 kind of strategy let me see if there's some more immediate things that we can do because gosh golly

01:59:14.480 i don't want to wait two years before we have the ability to hold our politicians to account i

01:59:19.520 actually want our politicians to do the right thing now so they can get re-elected so let me see uh if

01:59:25.060 dr phillips has has any thoughts for us if you were if you magic wand here you are now dr theresa

01:59:32.580 tam your chief medical officer of canada you um are able to issue statements that will be followed

01:59:40.900 by other medical chief medical officers in all of the provinces what's the path out of this

01:59:46.820 yeah so i think something that's really important to understand is how we got into this and uh there's

01:59:52.820 some like mass psychology that was used by the media and by politicians that kind of induced us

01:59:58.720 into this uh hysteria right around covid and part of that is the daily case counts the daily death

02:00:05.020 counts uh every day right and so like thousands of people die uh all the time right and we have

02:00:12.060 we have motor vehicle deaths we have cancers all those if you announce those every day right and

02:00:18.160 and said how concerned you were about them everybody would be terrified of diabetes

02:00:22.640 terrified of heart failure like heart failure uh and heart attacks and everything right because

02:00:27.520 it's happening on a massive scale to a large amount of the population right and so i think

02:00:32.320 what we need to do is we need to turn this trick around a little bit right and start and start to

02:00:37.760 just along with the covet case counts i think just start to introduce the population to those

02:00:44.560 consequences right so we need to put up those numbers of the number of suicides every day

02:00:49.280 the number of bankruptcies the daily debt count right and and um and missed cancer diagnoses right

02:00:57.840 and and all of those things uh just to get into people's minds uh not just once but on the daily

02:01:03.680 basis like they have for the others to get into people's minds that there are other things going

02:01:07.600 on here right so they might hear about those stats every once in a while but not in the same way as

02:01:12.640 they are with covid and so if you throw something in somebody's face every day uh that's what's

02:01:18.400 going to make it so important in their mind and so we need to provide a balanced perspective

02:01:22.960 and i think that's something that can happen right away and it's a it's a way out for these

02:01:27.040 politicians right so you just do that slowly and every and after a while people will be like hey

02:01:32.320 wait there's some bigger problems going on here right and i think that that will get the general

02:01:38.960 population to to buy in and to understand that there are bigger problems that are happening

02:01:44.800 than just cold it and so i think that's the biggest way for the politicians to get out just

02:01:49.920 to provide that balanced perspective about other things that are happening into the consequences

02:01:54.240 of these actions and that will eventually get people to to understand that these lockdowns are

02:01:59.200 harmful all right thank you so much for that i know there are a few activists i see their names

02:02:05.600 on uh the the comments feed so perhaps that they'll be the ones who have to assemble this

02:02:11.200 information you know where to find me daniellesmith.locals.com ian if you're listening

02:02:17.360 and uh some of the others who like to post information you can if you can do that daily

02:02:22.240 count um to get the other stats out there maybe it'll help to educate the public well i don't know

02:02:28.480 if derek fildebrand is back i i knew that this was going to be a bit of a downer kind of session

02:02:34.080 because there isn't a whole lot of great news because and i know it's a lot to digest because

02:02:40.000 you've had to sort of sneak around like i have going to all the alt sites to try to find some

02:02:44.400 of this information i am so grateful to all of the docs dr dennis modry dr roger hodkinson

02:02:50.800 and dr patrick phillips for being courageous enough to come on here challenge the conventional

02:02:56.960 wisdom face some of the pushback that they're likely to get from it just so that you can be

02:03:01.760 better informed that's what it's all about we're all just trying to figure the world out

02:03:05.120 and uh i hope you tune in on thursday maybe we'll get some advice from the politicians about

02:03:11.040 what the next steps might be i'm going to hand it off to uh to derek fielderbrand to finish us off

02:03:15.520 derek take it away thanks so much for uh guest hosting tonight danielle uh absolutely fantastic

02:03:22.000 show i think we've had record viewership massive number of comments so uh people are clearly

02:03:27.520 engaged on this topic. I apologize. I look like I'm appearing from a dark cave in an undisclosed

02:03:33.040 location somewhere right now. But I want to thank our guests, Dr. Phillips, Dr. Modry, Dr. Hodgkinson,

02:03:42.700 and again, you, Danielle, for guest hosting tonight. And I want to thank all of you who

02:03:48.400 have watched tonight for tuning in, educating yourself, and listening to these very,

02:03:56.340 uh these dissenting but very credible voices uh i know i learned a lot tonight um and uh at least

02:04:03.460 i think i'm a little bit smarter for it so uh thank you all very much for tuning in uh remember

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02:05:00.680 Again, thank you all very much for joining us tonight.

02:05:03.400 Appreciate your time.

02:05:05.120 Have a good evening.

02:05:05.860 God bless.

02:05:22.660 Thank you.

Western Standard - March 24, 2021

March 23, 2021

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