Western Standard - August 09, 2025


Mark Carney’s “Recognition” of Palestine — Real Policy or Political Posturing？

Topics
Carney conditions on Palestinian recognition Carney recognition Carney's recognition of Palestine
Mentioned
Mark Carney Erica Stephen Harper Corey Nigel
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Episode Stats


Length

10 minutes

Words per minute

162.48

Word count

1,713

Sentence count

89

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, we discuss the Canadian government's decision to recognize a Palestinian state, and what that means for the future of peace between Israel and the Palestinians. We also discuss why Hamas is still fighting, and why the world should be worried.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Prime Minister Mark Carney, saying that Canada will recognize, intends to recognize a Palestinian state.
00:00:08.260 He hasn't formally recognized a Palestinian state yet, but attaching certain conditions to it that make me think that if he does keep those conditions, he'll never be recognizing a Palestinian state.
00:00:22.220 That's how I read it.
00:00:23.440 Well, that's called having your cake and eating it, too.
00:00:25.920 And that seems to be, I believe we're going to go into this a little bit more deeply later.
00:00:31.960 But by and large, Mr. Carney says what he would like to happen and then places conditions on it so that he's got an escape route if things change.
00:00:42.000 Now, in this case, it's not Indigenous agreement and Quebec agreement that he's looking for.
00:00:48.620 That would be a pipeline. 0.87
00:00:50.640 But he wants to set three conditions on it.
00:00:55.640 That Hamas would not be part of any forthcoming, going forward, any Palestinian state.
00:01:05.620 That the Hezbollah in West Bank will also disarm, which to some extent they've been disarmed, but they don't like it.
00:01:16.380 I can't imagine that they would ever want to stay that way.
00:01:19.960 So, you know, he put these conditions out there and maybe they happen, maybe they don't.
00:01:24.660 And if they don't, you try it.
00:01:26.600 Corey, so, yeah, you know, he put these kind of put down these conditions and as did some heads of other governments around the world.
00:01:35.660 Hamas has to be disarmed, has to play no role in the government, the Palestinian, the hostages have to be released and said Palestinian state has to recognize the right of Israel to exist. 0.53
00:01:47.960 I mean, where the border should get drawn, to some extent is a fair debate, to some extent is a fraught debate.
00:01:55.240 But these conditions are actually under those conditions, if they were theoretically possible, I'd say, OK, actually, those are pretty reasonable conditions, I think, to recognize a Palestinian state.
00:02:07.160 The Palestinians have to recognize the Israeli state and not go to war for maybe a period of, I don't know, two weeks, if they can do that for two new record.
00:02:14.980 Yeah, they're actually fairly, I think, reasonable demands to make that, if met, I think would be, you know, a good grounds for which to recognize a Palestinian state.
00:02:28.660 But I don't think there's any chance like Hamas is, I mean, the Gaza Strip lurks worse than Tokyo or Dresden right now.
00:02:39.040 It's gone and they're still fighting.
00:02:41.760 They're not disarming.
00:02:43.040 They're not giving up the hostages.
00:02:44.980 I'm not really sure.
00:02:47.700 The only reason I can see them continuing to fight is it's imposing an increasingly great political price on Israel and the Israeli government, turning world opinion against them, not necessarily in favor of Hamas, but at least against the Israelis.
00:03:04.260 That's the only reason I can see why they still keep fighting at this point.
00:03:08.440 Well, they're ideological maniacs, and you're asking for reason from them.
00:03:12.540 I mean, their response to having world countries saying, okay, let's reward them for their terrorism if they would just be nice again, and we'll give you your own state.
00:03:20.680 And what they do, they release videos showing them torturing the prisoners they still have in custody right now.
00:03:27.060 Like, yeah, Kearney is no fool, whatever he may be.
00:03:30.740 There is no reasoning with Hamas. 0.99
00:03:33.280 Hamas made it pretty clear right off the bat, no, we aren't disarming.
00:03:37.140 No, we aren't releasing, you know, they've extended a nice big middle finger to the countries asking for that, and they want nothing less than the complete obliteration of Israel. 0.80
00:03:47.120 So, I don't know where this is going to end, but Kearney won't, he's just trying to play both sides, and he's playing weak.
00:03:54.620 I mean, what do people expect?
00:03:55.600 Israel's supposed to just leave them there to keep firing more rockets and grabbing more hostages?
00:03:59.880 The reality is the world's going to start calling for Hamas to bloody well, put the blame where it is.
00:04:04.980 This is only going to end when they stop.
00:04:07.240 The Arab League just came out.
00:04:09.980 Yeah, they've come out, yeah.
00:04:10.900 I mean, that's a big blow against Hamas, when even the Arab League is like, guys, the jig is up, time to go home.
00:04:17.860 Well, the other thing that has to be understood, as you pointed out, most of Gaza is rubble, and guess what?
00:04:21.760 Hamas is still hiding hostages and still launching rockets.
00:04:24.940 Gazans are complicit.
00:04:26.520 Not every one of them, but let's not pretend that Hamas isn't operating without the blessing of a large part of the civilian population as well. 0.58
00:04:34.320 And I see it showing clearly that it doesn't seem to matter how much abuse they take, the civilians won't turn on Hamas.
00:04:40.900 But this isn't ending until Hamas is done. 0.70
00:04:43.380 There's no other way about this.
00:04:46.180 Erica, if, say, Palestine, and I put that in air quotes, there's two Palestinian governments.
00:04:53.460 There's Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, and then arguably Israel as well as a third order of government there.
00:05:01.100 But, you know, if Palestine, if we can call it that, you know, disarmed Hamas, Hamas did play no role, the hostages are released, and they agreed to recognize Israel.
00:05:13.980 They probably wouldn't recognize their claim on Jerusalem, but let's say they recognized everything but, and that was just left as a point of negotiation for later.
00:05:22.080 Do you think, you know, Carney and others would be right in recognizing a Palestinian state if those conditions could be fulfilled?
00:05:32.240 Well, I think we're talking about sunshines and rainbows, so sure.
00:05:35.860 We are here.
00:05:36.180 Yeah, and so, sure, but, like, cart before the horse, and right now we, like you said, but all the three of you, separating Hamas from the state of Palestine is, I see it pretty unrealistic in the current state.
00:05:54.040 There's lots of what-ifs that have to happen in order for that, so for our prime minister to come out and say, okay, all of these conditions, this, this, and this, which an average Canadian isn't going through the fine print of these conditions that are hypothetical to some degree, he's now sitting here saying all that Canadians pick up is, I am going to recognize in September with other nations.
00:06:19.300 And I will say there is some Eastern or Western European countries that are also saying the same, but that we're going to recognize Palestine as a state.
00:06:27.380 I can tell you from the left-leaning people that I know and follow on social media, that was the whole message, was, like, regardless of that fine print, the prime minister is going to recognize Palestine as a state.
00:06:39.540 And I think what that did was really divide our country even more.
00:06:43.620 Sure, it also, you know, resulted in tariffs from the South to respond to that decision that our prime minister premeditated or preemptively stated before even getting to September.
00:07:00.040 So, sure, I think that we could say that's an appropriate thing if A, B, C, D, E, F, G happen.
00:07:07.520 I just think we're still at A.
00:07:10.400 And so, for what this means for Canada, we've already got some backlash of taking that position.
00:07:18.040 I also think it's setting a tone where, if you've ever gone to Ottawa in the last year or so, the disruption of their protests, we've seen it all across the country.
00:07:31.000 We've seen post-secondaries be taken over to stand out for the Palestinians.
00:07:37.680 The fact that we are Canada and we have taken an aggressive position on either side is disappointing to me at best.
00:07:47.480 I do agree with that.
00:07:48.860 I mean, it's, I think we've got to get out of the habit, particularly of those of us on the more conservative side, of thinking we actually really have a stake there.
00:07:57.300 We don't.
00:07:57.880 It's a different country.
00:07:58.580 It's a different part of the world.
00:07:59.540 I wish everyone there well, wish them peace and prosperity.
00:08:04.600 Well, for everyone, there's side, both sides have been very guilty of hurting innocent people.
00:08:10.080 And I just, I think us taking a stance either way, especially when you said to what benefit of us.
00:08:16.600 Exactly.
00:08:17.280 What is in our national interest?
00:08:19.620 What national interest is being served?
00:08:21.600 So, Nigel, this raises the question, why?
00:08:25.160 Why did Mark Carney say this?
00:08:27.100 I think, I think Erica is correct that most people just heard Canada is going to be recognizing a Palestinian state.
00:08:35.660 I think, you know, how many people see people do this whole time?
00:08:38.900 They just read the headline on X or wherever.
00:08:42.840 They don't read the story.
00:08:44.160 If they read the story, I actually don't think it's a particularly unreasonable way to go about it.
00:08:49.400 I don't think there's any chance Hamas ever agrees to it because it's too reasonable.
00:08:54.280 They won't agree to it.
00:08:55.880 Maybe I'm wrong.
00:08:57.120 But, but, but like, why is it simply the domestic voting audience that he's trying to appeal to?
00:09:05.900 You know, the combination of kind of campus lefties and, you know, the large and growing Islamic vote in Canada by, by saying this.
00:09:15.040 But, but, but then attaching conditions to it that make it highly unlikely that if he sticks to those conditions, that Canada will ever be recognizing a Palestinian state in the near future.
00:09:23.280 Well, I think after the events of October the 7th, 2023, nobody wants to see the Hamas rewarded with its own state. 0.99
00:09:32.880 But Carney is correct.
00:09:34.280 Mr. Carney, I should say, is correct in this much that a two-state solution is, has always been Canada's policy, even during the ministry of Stephen Harper,
00:09:46.800 who was famously very, very pro-Israel, and therefore by definition opposed to Hamas and Hezbollah, he was, I pulled it off the files here.
00:09:59.440 He made this statement in West Bank during an interview back in 2014, and he said, let me just say the position of the government of Canada,
00:10:09.520 I think, as you know, well, is we favor and indeed believe that these matters can only be resolved through a two-state solution with two states.
00:10:20.740 And of course, he, here came his conditions, which are essentially the same as Carney's, just differently worded,
00:10:27.060 two states that are viable, prosperous, secure, democratic, and living in peace.