In this episode, we discuss the Canadian government's decision to recognize a Palestinian state, and what that means for the future of peace between Israel and the Palestinians. We also discuss why Hamas is still fighting, and why the world should be worried.
00:00:00.000Prime Minister Mark Carney, saying that Canada will recognize, intends to recognize a Palestinian state.
00:00:08.260He hasn't formally recognized a Palestinian state yet, but attaching certain conditions to it that make me think that if he does keep those conditions, he'll never be recognizing a Palestinian state.
00:00:23.440Well, that's called having your cake and eating it, too.
00:00:25.920And that seems to be, I believe we're going to go into this a little bit more deeply later.
00:00:31.960But by and large, Mr. Carney says what he would like to happen and then places conditions on it so that he's got an escape route if things change.
00:00:42.000Now, in this case, it's not Indigenous agreement and Quebec agreement that he's looking for.
00:01:26.600Corey, so, yeah, you know, he put these kind of put down these conditions and as did some heads of other governments around the world.
00:01:35.660Hamas has to be disarmed, has to play no role in the government, the Palestinian, the hostages have to be released and said Palestinian state has to recognize the right of Israel to exist.
00:01:47.960I mean, where the border should get drawn, to some extent is a fair debate, to some extent is a fraught debate.
00:01:55.240But these conditions are actually under those conditions, if they were theoretically possible, I'd say, OK, actually, those are pretty reasonable conditions, I think, to recognize a Palestinian state.
00:02:07.160The Palestinians have to recognize the Israeli state and not go to war for maybe a period of, I don't know, two weeks, if they can do that for two new record.
00:02:14.980Yeah, they're actually fairly, I think, reasonable demands to make that, if met, I think would be, you know, a good grounds for which to recognize a Palestinian state.
00:02:28.660But I don't think there's any chance like Hamas is, I mean, the Gaza Strip lurks worse than Tokyo or Dresden right now.
00:02:47.700The only reason I can see them continuing to fight is it's imposing an increasingly great political price on Israel and the Israeli government, turning world opinion against them, not necessarily in favor of Hamas, but at least against the Israelis.
00:03:04.260That's the only reason I can see why they still keep fighting at this point.
00:03:08.440Well, they're ideological maniacs, and you're asking for reason from them.
00:03:12.540I mean, their response to having world countries saying, okay, let's reward them for their terrorism if they would just be nice again, and we'll give you your own state.
00:03:20.680And what they do, they release videos showing them torturing the prisoners they still have in custody right now.
00:03:27.060Like, yeah, Kearney is no fool, whatever he may be.
00:03:33.280Hamas made it pretty clear right off the bat, no, we aren't disarming.
00:03:37.140No, we aren't releasing, you know, they've extended a nice big middle finger to the countries asking for that, and they want nothing less than the complete obliteration of Israel.
00:03:47.120So, I don't know where this is going to end, but Kearney won't, he's just trying to play both sides, and he's playing weak.
00:04:26.520Not every one of them, but let's not pretend that Hamas isn't operating without the blessing of a large part of the civilian population as well.
00:04:34.320And I see it showing clearly that it doesn't seem to matter how much abuse they take, the civilians won't turn on Hamas.
00:04:40.900But this isn't ending until Hamas is done.
00:04:46.180Erica, if, say, Palestine, and I put that in air quotes, there's two Palestinian governments.
00:04:53.460There's Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, and then arguably Israel as well as a third order of government there.
00:05:01.100But, you know, if Palestine, if we can call it that, you know, disarmed Hamas, Hamas did play no role, the hostages are released, and they agreed to recognize Israel.
00:05:13.980They probably wouldn't recognize their claim on Jerusalem, but let's say they recognized everything but, and that was just left as a point of negotiation for later.
00:05:22.080Do you think, you know, Carney and others would be right in recognizing a Palestinian state if those conditions could be fulfilled?
00:05:32.240Well, I think we're talking about sunshines and rainbows, so sure.
00:05:36.180Yeah, and so, sure, but, like, cart before the horse, and right now we, like you said, but all the three of you, separating Hamas from the state of Palestine is, I see it pretty unrealistic in the current state.
00:05:54.040There's lots of what-ifs that have to happen in order for that, so for our prime minister to come out and say, okay, all of these conditions, this, this, and this, which an average Canadian isn't going through the fine print of these conditions that are hypothetical to some degree, he's now sitting here saying all that Canadians pick up is, I am going to recognize in September with other nations.
00:06:19.300And I will say there is some Eastern or Western European countries that are also saying the same, but that we're going to recognize Palestine as a state.
00:06:27.380I can tell you from the left-leaning people that I know and follow on social media, that was the whole message, was, like, regardless of that fine print, the prime minister is going to recognize Palestine as a state.
00:06:39.540And I think what that did was really divide our country even more.
00:06:43.620Sure, it also, you know, resulted in tariffs from the South to respond to that decision that our prime minister premeditated or preemptively stated before even getting to September.
00:07:00.040So, sure, I think that we could say that's an appropriate thing if A, B, C, D, E, F, G happen.
00:07:10.400And so, for what this means for Canada, we've already got some backlash of taking that position.
00:07:18.040I also think it's setting a tone where, if you've ever gone to Ottawa in the last year or so, the disruption of their protests, we've seen it all across the country.
00:07:31.000We've seen post-secondaries be taken over to stand out for the Palestinians.
00:07:37.680The fact that we are Canada and we have taken an aggressive position on either side is disappointing to me at best.
00:07:48.860I mean, it's, I think we've got to get out of the habit, particularly of those of us on the more conservative side, of thinking we actually really have a stake there.
00:08:57.120But, but, but like, why is it simply the domestic voting audience that he's trying to appeal to?
00:09:05.900You know, the combination of kind of campus lefties and, you know, the large and growing Islamic vote in Canada by, by saying this.
00:09:15.040But, but, but then attaching conditions to it that make it highly unlikely that if he sticks to those conditions, that Canada will ever be recognizing a Palestinian state in the near future.
00:09:23.280Well, I think after the events of October the 7th, 2023, nobody wants to see the Hamas rewarded with its own state.
00:09:34.280Mr. Carney, I should say, is correct in this much that a two-state solution is, has always been Canada's policy, even during the ministry of Stephen Harper,
00:09:46.800who was famously very, very pro-Israel, and therefore by definition opposed to Hamas and Hezbollah, he was, I pulled it off the files here.
00:09:59.440He made this statement in West Bank during an interview back in 2014, and he said, let me just say the position of the government of Canada,
00:10:09.520I think, as you know, well, is we favor and indeed believe that these matters can only be resolved through a two-state solution with two states.
00:10:20.740And of course, he, here came his conditions, which are essentially the same as Carney's, just differently worded,
00:10:27.060two states that are viable, prosperous, secure, democratic, and living in peace.