00:09:36.040uh it became apparent to me that i actually uh i i knew i didn't really realize at the time but i
00:09:42.280knew the guy who actually had bought the rights to the old western standard so i uh i acquired that
00:09:47.360we founded the new company uh which is now called uh western standard new media corporation i
00:09:53.800couldn't i couldn't just register to western standard media corporation because um the name
00:09:58.420for that wasn't coming open for about another month uh you know these things go away in the
00:10:03.360corporate registries. So we founded it. You know, we spent the first 14 months just building the
00:10:09.440readership, the brand, the credibility of the Western Standard. We wanted it to be something
00:10:13.420very different from a lot of the other alternative media out there. Don't take this, I don't want
00:10:17.880anyone to take this as bashing some of the other alternative independent media out there. I love
00:10:22.940what they're doing. They're playing an important role. But I felt that the alternative media was
00:10:28.060lacking an outlet that had a clear separation of news and opinion. They tend to often muddy them
00:10:36.220quite a bit. And I wanted our news side to be genuinely independent, fair, and using kind of
00:10:44.940those best practices that we at least expect the mainstream media to hold themselves to,
00:10:50.180even if they very often don't. So we brought in some great people on our news side. We had
00:10:55.100I think that's exactly kind of the issue is that one of the reasons that everything stays so
00:11:03.200mainstream in Canada is that that's the only thing that looks professional or supposedly
00:11:08.260has any legitimacy. I personally think there's of course a lot of fake news that does go through
00:11:12.760the mainstream media of Canada but nonetheless it looks polished it looks good it's got a perfect
00:11:17.620website or whatever they got you know billion dollars from the taxpayer or they have such
00:11:21.200exclusive oligarchic contracts and monopolies that they of course have lots of revenue and so
00:11:25.800everything looks pretty but but this is the thing for alternative media in Canada is that it has to
00:11:29.860fight that uphill battle have you have you found that yourself yeah but you know we um we gained
00:11:36.100the funny thing about the western standard while we're not we are not mainstream media but we have
00:11:41.000a certain degree of mainstream acceptance that a lot of other alternative media don't um I think
00:11:46.340it's because our news, we're not the only one, but we're very rare in this that we have a strict
00:11:52.500separation between our news and opinion. So our news division is led by Dave Naylor, our news
00:11:56.860editor. You know, he spent 40 years in media, most of it at the Calgary Sun. He was the city editor
00:12:03.340there for about 20 years. You know, and he brought a large sense of professionalism and credibility.
00:12:11.460So you're opposite, Mike D'Amour, our brand new BC bureau chief.
00:12:18.600He heads the news in British Columbia for the Western Standard.
00:12:21.860He came on the same day formally as you did.
00:12:25.040He also comes from the mainstream media.
00:12:27.800What we've been doing is we've been recruiting most of our reporters from the mainstream media who are just kind of sick of the mainstream media.
00:12:36.300The mainstream media tends to pay better than the alternative media in most cases, not always.
00:12:41.460But, you know, it has it has a certain stability to it. You're working for big established names that at least one point were highly respected. So what we're doing is we're finding disenfranchised, good, honest reporters in the mainstream media, trying to pull them out and bring them into the Western standard.
00:12:59.480But we couple that with our opinion side. And I take a more active role in our opinion side. I double up as the opinion editor for the time being. I'm hopeful to hire someone else to take that over in time. But the opinion side, because no one would believe I'm an objective, fair reporter.
00:13:18.740I think I've been on the record enough to know that I'm not able to write a very fair news story, I think, even if I tried.
00:13:28.880But the opinion side, we've got some really great, great columnists who are not afraid.
00:13:34.580They take on the controversial issues that the mainstream media are often too afraid to take on.
00:13:40.000But, you know, often the Western standard, we found ourselves to be the tail wagging the dog of the mainstream media.
00:13:45.040Because our writers and our reporters conduct themselves with professionalism, we often break stories that the mainstream media don't really think about, but then they end up picking it up a few days later.
00:13:56.980So we're extremely pleased with the progress we've had.
00:14:01.140We began to monetize the Western Standard in February.
00:14:05.340I know some people don't like the paywall, but there's really kind of two options here.
00:14:09.360we can take government money and be servants of the state, or we can be genuinely independent
00:14:15.160media. And that means we ask people to step up and give a couple of bucks a month to fund what
00:14:19.600we do. And tons and tons of people have. We've been really happy with the reception we've had
00:14:27.080so far on that. Something that you mentioned earlier was, of course, the fact that it was
00:14:33.600difficult to see why the Western Standard had to go before. And now that it's back,
00:14:39.000obviously there's been a lot of maybe the other way to think about it too is that in canada it
00:14:43.880does feel like there's a bit of a vacuum on well to the right of center part of the spectrum both
00:14:49.080in our political parties but also in our news media does the western standard kind of fill that
00:14:53.640role well we certainly do on the opinion side uh the opinion side is i mean uh you you don't
00:15:01.640need to look too hard to figure out where we're coming from uh we're militantly proud of being
00:15:07.080Westerners. And there's a spectrum of that. We've got some columnists who are full-on
00:15:13.380sovereigntists and some who would be firewallers. I mean, if you're just a we-love-Ottawa
00:15:20.140federalist, well, you've got the mainstream media to write in. So we don't really feel the need
00:15:24.860to provide much space for that. On the opinion side, though, sorry, on the news side, as I said,
00:15:31.060we try to make it very fair and right down the middle. But what separates us is we cover stories
00:15:39.540that the mainstream media often just don't. Sometimes they deliberately ignore it, but
00:15:43.700sometimes they just don't see why it's an issue until they start seeing a Western Standard story
00:15:50.680in their social media feeds, getting tons of shares. And then they say, oh, well, crap,
00:15:56.220we're missing out on a story. And then they'll pick it up a few days later.
00:15:58.320uh sometimes it's just that they don't see it's a story they don't think it's important
00:16:02.740until that they see it's gaining traction and then they'll pick it up um so we're we're we are
00:16:08.880filling a void um well and it's also sometimes uh just in the perspective of things i mean the
00:16:15.140government for example when a government sends out a news release saying um x y minister announces
00:16:21.980$30 million investment in excellent social program. The media will generally take that
00:16:31.280news release and reprint it almost word for word. And if it's a conservative government power,
00:16:37.340then they'll go to someone, say, from the NDP or the liberals, and they'll say,
00:16:41.160what's your thoughts on this? And then they'll get a quote from them about why it's not enough
00:16:44.860money. Well, we'll ask for them for quotes too, but we'll go to the other side a lot more. And
00:16:51.260the language might be different. Governments don't invest money, except in rare cases. In the case
00:16:56.200of, say, Keystone XL, the Alberta UCP government under Jason Kenney invested quite a bit of money
00:17:01.340between loan guarantees and stock options, $3 billion. In that case, it was technically an
00:17:08.500investment. It turned out to be a terrible investment, but it was technically an investment,
00:17:13.340so we can use the term investment. But when governments spend money, 99% of the time,
00:17:17.400they're not investments, they're spending. So we won't, it's sometimes just language that we're
00:17:21.860not, we question the government's own vocabulary on this, because it's spin. And we don't buy
00:17:26.860government spin from the left or from the so called right. So we'll talk about government
00:17:31.660spending. We'll talk about how much money the government had to borrow to do this. We'll go
00:17:36.640and we'll get quotes from my old colleagues, say at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.
00:17:42.140So we'll get a bit more perspective on this. And we just don't take government news releases
00:17:46.660at their word. We don't just use their language because they're in an official government news
00:17:51.660release. Problem is much of the media is just too lazy now. They file one or two stories a day
00:17:57.640and they think that's a lot of work. Our team are filing individually, each reporter is filing
00:18:04.500six, seven, eight stories a day, sometimes quite a bit more. Maybe I'm just a very hard boss,
00:18:11.340but our guys work a lot harder, I think, than most of the journalists in the mainstream media.
00:18:16.660And we just question the vocabulary. Whenever I see one of our news stories go out, and it's essentially just using the government's words, I make an angry phone call. I say, that's not good enough for us. We hold ourselves to a higher standard, the Western standard. And we will use language that we believe is fair, not just what the government tells us to do.
00:18:39.600let's focus on that in itself right so the western standard i mean i'm proud to be here
00:18:48.040it's great to be the bc columnist and and now of course the host of mountain standard time
00:18:52.280and of course the other side of it is that you know this is beautiful bc that's what we're doing
00:18:57.100over here uh bc is a little weird bc is a little different we don't have prairies that connect us
00:19:01.920with the rest of the west of course you guys have the rockies as well but then the rest of
00:19:07.740your western neighbors you know it's a it's a decently easy drive i've driven it a couple of
00:19:11.980times it's not as bumpy as it is over here in bc how do you how do you make sure that that what
00:19:17.360you're representing isn't just alberta you mentioned this in the release where i was announced
00:19:21.560that that the western standard could also be the alberta standard uh how do we make sure that it
00:19:26.500stays the western standard what what's your vision there oh sorry there that a little technical
00:19:35.020politically uh yeah uh this has been uh an issue we've faced from the uh from the beginning of the
00:19:42.220second western standard uh is that we're all too often just we're sorry we're all too often just
00:19:50.320the uh the alberta stand alberta plus standard and that's just because when we started we didn't
00:19:55.340start with uh a lot of loans i didn't know if this was going to work or not it's working now
00:19:59.640But when we started, I didn't know if this was going to work.
00:20:41.120And naturally that meant that our coverage on both news and opinion
00:20:46.680and broadcast was overwhelmingly Alberta-focused.
00:20:50.960And so let me tell people from Alberta watching right now,
00:20:54.760we're not going to take – we're not going to have less Alberta coverage.
00:20:58.500We're just going to have more British Columbia coverage, more coverage in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, maybe even the territories at some point, because I think they properly belong, at least in a sense, to the West, even though they're kind of their own thing.
00:21:12.580So now that we've been building up, because we've had a huge number of people decide to become members and subscribe, making small monthly contributions to the Western Standard, and since we've had a real boon in advertising coming in, we now are able to expand and really be the Western Standard.
00:21:35.980And so our first really big step with that was bringing you, Nathan, on as BC political columnist and host of the Mountain Standard Time show and bringing Mike DeMoore on as our BC bureau chief heading up news in British Columbia.
00:21:54.420We tried having people in the Calgary office assigned to BC stories, but we just end up like the Globe and Mail, like the Globe and Mail's Alberta political columnist is Gary Mason.
00:22:05.420and he's in Vancouver. It's kind of, they have the opposite problem. They got a guy in Vancouver
00:22:09.180pretending to write about Alberta issues and anybody reading his stuff knows he just doesn't
00:22:14.940have, doesn't have anything really thoughtful to say. So, you know, we needed people on the ground
00:22:26.280here, sorry, in British Columbia to do that. And now we are very much aggressively working to do
00:22:32.800that in Saskatchewan and Manitoba. We have a Manitoba political columnist coming very soon
00:22:38.180who we're going to be announcing. We've got Lee Harding in Saskatchewan doing opinion,
00:22:43.160but we're really going to make an effort to truly be the Western standard, not the Alberta plus
00:22:47.200standard. Let's talk about that then. When it comes to BC and Alberta specifically, we are not
00:22:54.400always the best of neighbours. I think Ottawa has done an incredible job of keeping us divided from
00:22:59.280one another from the alberta perspective what do you think the reason for that is why why can't
00:23:04.760alberta and bc just get along well you know i think it's a outside of a province we tend to
00:23:13.180project monocultures on each province uh albertans project this monoculture that of the left coast
00:23:21.100uh everybody's sleeping in hemp huts um protesting pipelines and that's obviously not the case
00:23:28.960of even, I think that's actually a relatively small number of British Columbians. I don't think
00:23:33.540it's representative. That and the latte sipper working at a high-tech company in downtown
00:23:39.400Vancouver for two hours a day. I mean, that's kind of the stereotype that gets projected on BC.
00:23:47.100The stereotype projected on Alberta is we're all roughnecks and cowboys. There's probably a bit
00:23:53.280more truth to that, but even that is still missing quite a bit. And so those are different cultures.
00:24:17.140I'm in downtown Calgary right now on the 12th floor here.
00:24:21.780But I think our stereotypes are different.
00:24:25.140I think our interests are actually normally quite aligned.
00:24:28.960I mean, and we've got our radical environmentalists too here. The difference is that
00:24:37.600they're not really able to block others. I don't know why they don't try to block BC
00:24:44.240lumber shipments down the Trans-Canada Highway. If our radicals were interested in things,
00:24:51.760they should be standing in Banff chaining themselves to barricades, stopping lumber
00:24:57.600from coming through. They're murdering Gaia. So I don't know. But for most, not all, but most of
00:25:08.160our histories, we've actually been quite aligned. You know, we both are the only two provinces that
00:25:16.720have had social credit governments and the strange experiment that that was. Both provinces were the
00:25:22.900core of the Reform Party and then the Canadian Alliance. A lot of people don't understand that
00:25:26.960The Reform Party and the Canadian Alliance used to normally win more seats in British Columbia than the Conservative Party of Canada did.
00:25:33.520These were these populist Western regional parties that do better than the so-called more mainstream centrist Conservative Party of Canada.
00:25:46.920Conservative Party of Canada certainly does better in Ontario and the Atlantic and Quebec than the Reform Party ever did.
00:25:52.440But in B.C., the Reform Party did better than the Conservative Party most of the time.
00:25:57.100Certainly the Canadian Alliance did better more than they did.
00:25:59.980And so we share a very common political culture that is populist, that's anti-establishment in many cases.
00:26:09.180But something has happened to make us drift more apart over the last probably 15 years.
00:26:16.880Both have always been different, but they've normally always seen eye to eye.
00:26:19.980I mean, Ralph Klein and, you know, you went through a spat of NDP premiers in the death throes of that government before Gordon Campbell was elected, but Ralph Klein found common cause with NDP premiers on federal issues.
00:26:39.400They regularly stood side by side because the B.C. NDP at that time at least still considered itself clearly a Western party.
00:26:48.300Most of its for most of its history, the NDP was actually a very Western party.
00:26:52.240Sure, ran everywhere, but most of its seats were traditionally in Western Canada.
00:26:56.140That ended in 1993 because the Reform Party.
00:26:59.500Yeah, a lot of people understand the Reform Party killed the PCs in the West, but it also pretty much killed the NDP in the West, too.
00:27:09.400So regardless of the ideology of the government and power in both Alberta and British Columbia, there was normally a common cause actually between all four Western provinces that we really don't see any, I don't think we see any more at all.
00:27:24.360there are uh secretaries of interprovincial affairs right there are people that are
00:27:33.500designated between the provinces to speak to one another is it is it that high level that has to
00:27:38.700change or is it right down to uh the ground floor the average guy walking down the street you or me
00:27:43.780that needs to change and have things go forward that that it's our connection that will make the
00:27:50.500west uh well able to kind of make a better a deal for itself in the future
00:27:55.260uh well the easy answer is it's both um i don't think most british columbians hate albertans i
00:28:04.660don't think most albertans hate british columbians uh there's obviously some exceptions there uh
00:28:09.940i mean you know we all know like in the summer you'd get um you know cars trucks with uh alberta
00:28:16.160plates getting vandalized and the shoe swaps and stuff. But I think that's a very small, nutty
00:28:22.680fringe. I think it's just a matter of concentrated interests. I mean, at least on natural gas
00:28:31.380extraction, the BC NDP is quite pro because it's in BC. It's got a direct interest in it.
00:28:39.660But the Alberta NDP was quite anti-pipeline, quite anti-oil and gas when it was in opposition.
00:28:46.860But then it came to government, realized, oh, geez, we won an election and now we have to stay in power and we need money to do it.
00:28:53.480So I think the reason you have, you know, polls consistently show British Columbians support the oil sands.
00:31:19.820It is a leader in the world in many positive respects.
00:31:23.000Canada is more often than not a net positive to have on the world stage, and I want Canada to succeed.
00:31:33.200But I don't believe it's acceptable for Alberta in particular, but the West more broadly, to continue a relationship which is colonial in nature.
00:31:43.980I mean, BC and Alberta combined have less senators than Nova Scotia, for God's sakes.
00:31:53.000there's there's clearly something wrong with our constitutional arrangements um confederation
00:31:59.160happened in 1867 because the four original colonies or technically three upper and lower
00:32:05.160canada were the united province of canada at the time uh but then nova scotia and new brunswick
00:32:10.520uh because they needed to form an economic and trade union they needed free trade because the
00:32:15.720americans had become pretty gone through one of their frequent regurgitations of protectionism
00:32:21.960It largely closed off the American market, two Canadian producers, and we needed free trade. It was an economic union. It was not as glorious and romantic as the American union, which was a throw off the yoke of British imperialism.
00:32:37.220some guys with muskets beat one of the biggest armies in the world, and they founded this great
00:32:41.720mostly but not entirely free republic. Ours was not a romantic story like that. It was guys sat
00:32:47.160around and said, yeah, we need to trade. And it was a practical union of convenience. But that
00:32:53.100very foundation for the creation of the Dominion of Canada doesn't even exist anymore. We can't
00:32:59.660trade across provincial boundaries. Legally, if I was to load up my truck with a little too much
00:33:05.780beer. It's illegal to produce the damn stuff for anybody else, even in your own province,
00:33:09.700let alone transport across provincial borders. I know a guy who's done jail time for that because
00:33:14.040he believed he had the right to produce dairy outside of federal government monopoly. So we
00:33:23.080don't even have free trade in this country. I don't need to rehash, you know, the airing of
00:33:29.020the grievances as i called it with on another show the canadian story um you know the massive
00:33:35.520wealth transfers that come out of alberta and the west more broadly to fund the east largely just
00:33:40.480for vote buying and and both the conservatives and the liberals both engage in it with uh just
00:33:46.120one seems to be more gleeful about doing it and the other is a little more appreciative about doing
00:33:51.600it, but they both view it in equal measure, nonetheless. And basic representation, the right
00:33:59.020to control provincial policy within our provincial jurisdiction. I'd like to see these things fixed,
00:34:04.880but I don't believe they can be. The last time we tried to fix the Constitution in Canada was
00:34:08.460a Charlottetown Accord, and it was mostly just an attempt to appease Quebec with special rights,
00:34:12.900and the West rejected it rightfully so, largely leading to the downfall of the Mulroney government.
00:34:19.360there is no appetite for constitutional change in Canada and I believe Canada does need
00:34:25.160constitutional change but there's no appetite for it and even if there was an appetite for it
00:34:29.040it would get immediately hijacked by a specialist of Quebec grievances we'd say well we want an
00:34:34.780elected senate they say well we want the right to ban Muslims from wearing headgear
00:34:38.320well that's a bit of a different agenda and I'm not sure I want to share a country
00:34:44.060with governments that believe they can so easily stamp, trample on religious rights. Although
00:34:50.900I should point out that right now, Alberta is the biggest violator of religious rights,
00:34:56.020raiding churches and throwing pastors in prison. But I just don't see the prospect of constitutional
00:35:02.520reform. I think the best path for Alberta and the West broadly is we need to put some hard
00:35:10.380demands on the table. We need to say here is what we require to remain a part of Canada, that it
00:35:17.920would be a radically reformed Senate, not just in elections, but in how we allocate seats in the
00:35:24.940Senate. It means free trade. It means the abolition of equalization and caps on other transfers. A lot
00:35:31.420of people don't understand that most of the money that comes out of Western provinces towards the
00:35:35.320East is not equalization. Equalization is just one part of it that we focus on, but we need caps on
00:35:39.700these things, and we need to guarantee provincial sovereignty within our own jurisdiction.
00:35:46.160Ottawa's got no more business in health care than British Columbia or Alberta do running the army.
00:35:51.260They're different areas of jurisdiction, and they should be kept strictly separate.
00:35:54.640I think we should have put this on the table, put it to a vote, although I'm not optimistic one bit
00:36:01.220that there really would be much take-up in Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes, and depending
00:42:37.520And I knew the guy did. I didn't think the guy had a hidden agenda. I thought the platform was OK. It was a moderate conservative platform, but it wasn't very radical. And he's not been radical. But in some respects, he's not doing what he said. No one would have predicted COVID.
00:42:52.780But at this point, his actions are his own. And that's why less than half of the people who voted UCP in the last election, 55%, say consistently in polls now that they'll vote for him again. It's now into the low and mid 20s. So they're facing absolute oblivion.
00:43:14.300And if you're not strong at home, it's hard to be strong abroad. When the government at home here does not have the support of its own people, it's very difficult to carry a big stick and get anything changed elsewhere.
00:43:26.520That said, I don't think, even if you had the support of people here at home, Ottawa's not going to change because we tell them to. They're going to be forced to change or we have to do something else entirely. Those are really the only two options.
00:43:41.440I think the whole strategy of we're going to have a referendum on equalization and then go tell Justin Trudeau to change things, it was never going to work.
00:43:49.680There was a time where I believed it maybe had a chance.
00:43:52.340But as I've come to understand the federal dynamics of Canada better, there's just no way that that's ever going to result in anything.
00:43:59.800So I think a lot of people are just disappointed.
00:48:39.360And we were able to negotiate a deal with the federal government for them to build a railroad, which they didn't do right away. And in fact, you know, a year after we joined or a couple of years after we joined, we were already talking about pulling out again because we weren't getting the deal that we'd been promised.
00:48:54.020And it took that threat of pulling out a confederation right at the very beginning to get the federal government to follow through with the promise they had made that brought us in.
00:49:02.520And so that's why I have a lot of time for arguments like the ones that have been made by Derek in the first half of the show.
00:49:10.080That even if you're not a sovereigntist or a separatist, full stop, you have to understand that what Quebec has done has worked very well for the people of Quebec.
00:49:20.960And it is absolutely a card that we should keep in our pocket. And you don't have to be full on separatist or a hater of, you know, the Federalist Project to take that position. And in fact, if we're not going to do that, who is?
00:49:36.520And so, yeah, there might be some, you know, I mean, there are, of course, there are political differences across the provincial boundary between Alberta and BC.
00:49:43.480You know, I come from originally terrorist British Columbia, logging town, come from a logging family.
00:49:50.180Everybody worked in forestry, either driving trucks or they're out in the bush cutting trees.
00:49:54.760And to the person, they're all in Alberta now, with the exception of my very immediate family who all went down south when, you know, the bottom sort of fell out of forestry here.
00:50:04.500And so I come from this family that's got these sympathies across the provincial border.
00:50:10.680And some of those tensions kind of play out around the, you know, prior to COVID or around the dinner table when we're discussing political politics or sort of just politics.
00:50:19.560And, you know, my family members that have moved to Alberta, it's not to say that they weren't kind of conservative when they were in British Columbia, but they probably became a bit more conservative when they went to Alberta.
00:50:30.260And then me, I've, you know, spent my whole life here in British Columbia.
00:50:33.400And so we are products of our surroundings.
00:50:35.680And so, you know, I tend to be quite a bit more progressive than the rest of the folks in the family.
00:50:42.580And so that's why, you know, even people like me, I think, can really get behind a publication like the Western Standard, which I've always had a lot of respect for.
00:50:51.100I was quite excited when I'd sort of read a couple of years ago that Derek was going to rekindle it.
00:50:58.400And I really like where you guys are going with this.
00:51:02.200I think that maybe the way to kind of conceptualize it is that even if somebody likes the idea of Canada being Canada and Canada keeping the same borders, right?
00:51:11.620And I, in many respects, I don't want the borders of Canada to change.
00:52:27.240But it's, you know, so that we didn't have this feeling of futility watching sort of these Eastern votes just pull us over.
00:52:33.860And to the point that, you know, by the time we got to like Saskatchewan, it was there were not enough votes left in the country to change the course.
00:52:40.740And so it did lead to this feeling of futility out West.
00:52:44.040It didn't didn't matter whether you're on the left of the spectrum or the right of the spectrum.
00:52:47.600If you didn't want to see liberals get reelected, it was frustrating and it still is frustrating.
00:52:52.260And now in the age of the Internet, you can't really delay the results anymore.
00:52:55.120So we see that stuff. But like I said, I'm very, very excited that there is now an organ like the Western Standard that is having these conversations.
00:53:09.080And I think, you know, I mean, British Columbia, it's kind of a difficult place to have these discussions.
00:53:14.660I think it's not as, I mean, there isn't the wide basis of support that I think you see in Alberta around conversations, not just of separation, but of sovereignty and trying to create more independence for the West.
00:53:28.600And part of it is because we are a divided province politically.
00:53:33.020You guys talked in the opening segment about, you know, some of the political differences in Alberta.
00:53:37.760You know, Derek described there being, you know, some radical environmentalists, etc., which, of course, we have here in British Columbia.
00:53:43.280but again I mean even within the environmental movement there's sort of a right left split as
00:53:47.740well and that's interesting but British Columbia is like one of the most eccentric jurisdictions
00:53:52.840I think in Canada and sort of proudly so yeah we're sort of like the Portland North like we
00:53:57.880like to we like to keep it weird on a on a provincial level but what comes with that is
00:54:02.980sort of a high degree of a desire for autonomy both personal and in terms of personal liberty
00:54:09.520and freedom. And I don't know whether that's, like, there's a big difference between the folks
00:54:14.560in, I say the Lower Mainland, but I really mean like Vancouver and Victoria. Lower Mainland isn't
00:54:19.320an accurate reflection, but there's a total divide, I think, in the understanding of what
00:54:23.300British Columbian culture is down in that area versus how the rest of us, like the rest of the
00:54:30.100province, how we understand ourselves to be. And so you and I have had discussions about the vast
00:54:35.320political differences between like you know the northeast of the province versus the northwest
00:54:39.680even uh the west coast uh but it's not even that cut and dry um there's there's definitely
00:54:45.660political divides but what's what i think is is really exciting about about this program
00:54:50.340is that for the first time in my lifetime i think that i can remember uh there there's there's going
00:54:56.240to be talented and and articulate commentators like yourself for instance that are going to
00:55:00.940provoke these debates on what it means to be a British Columbian within confederation in in the
00:55:06.880modern era and but more than that how can we conceptualize how things might be different and
00:55:12.400this is tough because people get really attached to this brand that that has been created around
00:55:16.900Canada which isn't that old I mean we just celebrated our 150th anniversary which in the
00:55:20.360history of most countries in the world is a blip it's just like it's nothing it's very young
00:55:25.820very young register uh and so to me it's always been like you know like i i'm i'm kind of with
00:55:31.220you guys in the sense that i'm not like eagerly flying the flag for separation so i'd like to see
00:55:35.520it work as well um because there isn't there other than the economic arguments and the fairness
00:55:40.260arguments there isn't really a compelling reason to leave which is kind of how we got in this
00:55:43.740in the first place back in 1871 or 72 where you know we just sort of looked at the factors and
00:55:49.800said well this is the better deal let's try this for a while uh but but why wouldn't we
00:55:54.600conceptualize what the future might look like differently uh why can't we just have those
00:55:58.660conversations in a very civilized manner nobody's talking about you know arms insurrection or uh or
00:56:04.920and you know trying to trying to fight our way out or anything it's it's let's just have the
00:56:09.580conversations about what canada could look like and if we're not talking about separation or
00:56:14.980total sovereignty uh then we maybe we could talk about rejigging the borders a little bit um it's
00:56:21.060always been interesting to me that my friends in the Northeast, like Fort Change, Peace
00:56:25.560River Country in British Columbia, for instance, were far more culturally closer to Albertans
00:56:31.280than to the southwest of the province, for instance.
00:56:35.340If you do that plug here, because this is Mountain Standard Time, they're on Mountain
01:04:12.700And unless it's sold off, nobody can take it from us.
01:04:15.900And that's something that I think when we're talking about British Columbia identity
01:04:19.560or Albertan identity and sort of the Western identity,
01:04:21.840we want to be very clear about which taxpayer assets are at our disposal.
01:04:26.900And we want to be very wary, I think, of letting those taxpayer assets go
01:04:29.840because once they're gone, it's very difficult to get them back.
01:04:32.660And so that's sort of why I have the position I do on Site C.
01:04:36.440Very pro, but I want to keep it public so that we've got control over it.
01:04:39.920I think that's actually a really interesting segue into the fact that what happens with the West is that actually a lot of the Western, except for BC, actually BC's borders came in intact into confederation.
01:04:52.740But Alberta and Saskatchewan and Manitoba, they were created by federal statute.
01:04:57.540And so that's another aspect of what has to be discussed when it comes to this question of Western sovereignty, because the fact of the matter is, is that honestly, if a vote was held tomorrow and let's say that it really was 51 percent, everybody decided they wanted to leave.
01:05:10.280One of the weird ways that it might all get stymied, just like the Brexit vote, is it might all get litigated in the courts because the courts would have to start weighing into, well, what part of Western Canada are you allowed to take with you?
01:05:22.060British Columbia, it's pretty much a done deal.
01:05:23.980British Columbia entered with the borders it had, it can leave with the borders it had,
01:05:27.000though I'm sure that the Aboriginal sovereignists themselves would have something to say about that.
01:05:32.820And that's why when my first column for The Standard, I talked about this.
01:05:37.020I said there was no way forward for Western sovereignty and any kind of deeper independence from Ottawa
01:05:43.100without, of course, buy-in from the First Peoples of Canada.
01:05:47.080And I would say the same even for B.C., despite the fact that at least or in spite of the fact
01:05:51.500that they did have a complete borders when they entered confederation but for the rest of the west
01:05:56.420the question of borders is actually pretty serious let alone who really owns what and then finally
01:06:01.820again just back to the even the question of how do how do you administer such a place what you
01:06:07.560know we we actually do get not i would say not a ton of benefits for the federal government a lot
01:06:12.560of different counts but there are a certain exchange and then if the west all leaves together
01:06:16.580they're all going to have to figure out who's going to be in charge of all of them or are they
01:06:19.520all going to be a separate entity and if that's the case then is it any different than right now
01:06:23.640because then bc really could cut off alberta but now alberta can't go to ottawa to give to tell them
01:06:28.200bc to get bc on site this is this is that difficulty with western uh separation in general
01:06:33.560but with canadian confederation in general is that it doesn't it's a very complicated idea
01:06:38.940and um and how how that is supposed to work between the provinces and between the various
01:06:44.360levels of government i'm not exactly sure but i i think that again coming back to the question of
01:06:48.920how we would make allies out of our, you know, our progressive political opponents on the other
01:06:54.940side of the spectrum is that I think both of us can say again, whether it's the stake in the
01:06:58.960country or the fact that Ottawa is just always so incompetently administering our homes and
01:07:03.360intervening in our lives for no good reason. I think progressives can argue that as well,
01:07:06.980like shouldn't the people who live here or and even if we're talking about progressive issues
01:07:10.640around whether we're talking about, you know, poverty or, you know, affordable living and that
01:07:16.060sort of thing, which I don't think should just be progressive issues. I think they should be
01:07:18.580right-wing issues too but the point is that if we're going to talk about about you know uh affordable
01:07:23.260living and uh people having a living wage and that sort of thing like that that there's an
01:07:27.060economy that provides that i mean that's the right-wing answer to it right so there would
01:07:30.820be economy to produce that the thing is that there's got to be a way for both the right and
01:07:35.700the left in the west to agree that we should work towards something better because what we're getting
01:07:39.540from ottawa right now isn't working yeah well and i i mean my take on uh incompetence i mean i talk
01:07:45.520about Ottawa incompetence a lot but they're not really incompetent they just don't like they don't
01:07:50.240care about us as much as they care about themselves that's the truth right people are inherently
01:07:55.200self-interested and and so we should understand that I mean we shouldn't hide from that reality
01:08:00.800we should know that you know when you're in a country this large geographically I mean it's vast
01:08:07.080you're going to have regional preferences and if your capital is the same distance from you
01:08:41.480It fundamentally involves the inclusion and hopefully the alliance with Indigenous peoples in British Columbia, many of whom I think, if we're actually, you know, polled on this question, would probably have a very similar opinion in terms of their own feelings of experience within Confederation, probably not from their perspective, very positive.
01:09:02.060And so, you know, I think the point of unity is to have those discussions and and to realize that even though we might have different opinions about what's wrong with Confederation, we can at least agree that there's something wrong with Confederation and it's not serving all of our interests.
01:09:17.740And then, of course, there's the political dynamics of British Columbia, which I'm just pulling this out of the air because I don't have any stats, but I would venture a guess that there's probably more concern amongst a majority of British Columbian voters about the opinions of Indigenous people in regards to Confederation than maybe the electorate in Alberta has.
01:09:40.000I don't know that for sure, but I know that Indigenous opposition to different issues, especially environmental issues in British Columbia, are a huge political sort of yardstick, especially for progressives.
01:09:51.780So many of them sort of take their lead from where Indigenous voices go on these issues.
01:09:56.380So if you get into a situation where a majority of indigenous organizations and leaders and speakers are starting to talk about reconceptualizing confederation in alliance with people like us that are also having these discussions, I think it makes it very difficult for people, progressives in British Columbia to really argue against that.
01:10:16.100It's very difficult, especially for those that have been touting, you know, reconciliation and, you know, expanded treaty rights, etc. for the last 20 years to now turn around and say, well, we don't want to go that far when Indigenous people are saying, well, maybe we should consider this.
01:10:31.220So that's sort of the, I think that's the piece that, you know, I'd like to see discussed because so far, and this is just for my observance, it's not necessarily reality, but from what I've observed, the conversations around sovereignty and independence and strength, strengthening the West are happening in sort of segregated groups, right?
01:10:51.040I don't I don't see like I see these conversations taking place within indigenous communities, but not with the same sharpness and sort of clarity or focus that is happening in non-indigenous communities.
01:11:04.120But I think those those conversations have to be merged. And why wouldn't they? I mean, that's if you're talking about reconceptualizing a nation, you have to talk to everybody that's in it and try to build that base of support amongst the majority, irrespective of whether you agree with them or not on every other issue.
01:11:21.040Partially why you and I get along so well is because we find and part of the reason why, you know, why I can have a lot of respect and excitement for an organ like the like the Western Standard, even though I'm from from the progressive end of the spectrum politically, because these are issues that I think transcend, you know, the political divide.
01:11:41.420I think that's actually it's an interesting segue right there. And again, that's one of the things I'm appreciative of for both you coming on in this inaugural show, but also for the conversations we've had about this over the years and and and hopefully continue to have for much longer to to the success of them, to be clear to the success.
01:11:57.360the the thing that is interesting about british columbia maybe this is kind of harder for
01:12:02.200particularly albertans and maybe and maybe all other prairie folk to kind of conceptualize about
01:12:06.460bc is that speaking of the sovereignty question like this is exactly what happened with the wet
01:12:10.480sueton kind of thing uh wet sueton sorry i guess it's kind of the right way to accent it um and
01:12:15.680what happened west of west of here i mean we're broadcasting you from bc's northern capital uh
01:12:20.340And so just west of us here, out towards, of course, towards the coast and in between there, out west of Smithers, there was, of course, the protest that happened.
01:12:34.300But this entirely has been swept under the rug now because, of course, we have had COVID for so long.
01:12:40.100We forgot that anything else happened before COVID.
01:12:42.340But right in 2020, at the beginning of 2020, of course, there was this huge protest.
01:12:47.540uh obviously there was all sorts of uh organization that went into it in agitation throughout the
01:12:53.300country obviously there were things done uh to the rail lines and everything else and we're not
01:12:57.520going to either excuse that or condone that or whatever's going on like things happened is the
01:13:01.380point and the interesting thing is like again maybe maybe in the rest of the west that would
01:13:06.740have been more of even a non-indigenous versus indigenous sort of argument right so the first
01:13:11.320nations on one side and suppose i mean i don't like to say colonizers but that's what's used
01:13:16.340nowadays uh on the other that's not that's not how it is in bc to a point there were there was
01:13:22.620division within the first nation itself sure like that's how how hyper-sovereignist is british
01:13:27.580columbia there's division within our division right like that's right like i mean and i think
01:13:33.480this is the thing that's hard for the rest of western canada maybe to understand is that like
01:13:37.680bc is a bunch of river valleys okay like it's a bunch of little right fjords and and all sorts
01:13:43.020of other things right and then it's river valleys and there's there's like one or two little prairies
01:13:47.640that are actually plateaus so they're surrounded by mountains they're not really accessible so the
01:13:51.540thing is that like for the rest of the west like it needs to be understood that while i you know
01:13:55.620i've been out to churchill i've been to manitoba like i understand not all the geography is the
01:13:59.480same i get that but there are places in bc you really can't walk to like you need the in or it's
01:14:06.620going to be a really long trip it's not the same kind of voyager sort of stuff you could do in
01:14:10.880yesteryear and days of yore in the prairies and follow a river for 10,000 kilometers and get
01:14:15.680somewhere. That's not how it works in BC. And so in British Columbia, even our divisions have
01:14:20.080divisions. Our sovereigntists are sovereigntists against each other. And so I think that maybe
01:14:24.800that's exactly where that conversation needs to start. And I'm really excited. I hope people are
01:14:28.360commenting, suggesting guests. I hope people are also giving us ideas of who should come on the
01:14:34.700show and that sort of thing, because I think what's really important, I think it's super important,
01:14:40.880for people to just network on this issue to network on this issue of how are we going to
01:14:47.300kind of clarify what it means to be a Western Canadian particularly a British Columbian in
01:14:51.380Western Canada and then what is the best way forward throughout all the West but also especially
01:14:55.380for British Columbia again because it does get this radical the divide right this is why I have
01:15:00.080Aaron on here for our first show is to make clear from day one that we are here to be an open
01:15:04.720conversation with with well our political opposites for a lot of people who are you know fans and
01:15:10.880standard like we're more populist and right wing we have to be in partnership in the sense that we
01:15:15.400we are not going to get out of confederation you know alone or even if we want to make
01:15:19.940confederation better we aren't going to be able to do that alone that's not a one-man
01:15:23.320yeah and i we saw johnny blum's question sorry if i said your name wrong uh johnny but ask the
01:15:28.840question what type of energy would we like to see and it relates that question's a perfect uh call
01:15:33.500back to your point on the wet sweat and uh incident that happened here earlier and so
01:15:37.500So, you know, I mean, this was an extremely divisive issue in British Columbia.
01:15:40.880It really gets to this question of what kind of energy do we want to see?
01:15:43.240So that was over the expansion of the coastal link gas line through wet, sweat, and territory.
01:15:47.760And just to sort of break it down for folks that may not have paid close attention to that.
01:15:51.620It feels like a million years ago because of COVID.
01:15:53.880So, like, this played out, I think, in January or February of last year, right?
01:15:57.260And so, essentially, what happened was, you know, the provincial government had, I mean,
01:16:03.540the project, of course, predates the NDP government in BC. It was initiated under the BC
01:16:08.500Liberal government. The BC NDP didn't really have a different take on the project and had
01:16:12.860continued negotiation with the different ban councils in the area, which are referred to
01:16:17.700usually in Indigenous circles as Indian Act ban councils. So they were ban councils that were
01:16:22.180created by the Indian Act. And generally, there's a dispute between them and many of the hereditary
01:16:27.360chiefs over sort of, not necessarily a dispute, but maybe a debate over whether the jurisdiction
01:16:31.540of the band councils extends beyond the reserve over the traditional territory or whether the
01:16:37.760hereditary chiefs maintain that level of authority. And then, of course, there's political divisions
01:16:43.000even within the chief circles, because some of them are hereditary, not all are hereditary,
01:16:48.680some are elected, etc. In any case, I had a rather nuanced position on it, which drew
01:16:55.320ire, I think, probably, again, from the left and the right. So I was actually in favor of the
01:16:59.640coastal gasoline pipeline coming through. And it's not because I think, you know, we should be solely
01:17:04.480reliant on fossil fuel based energy, especially in a province where we've got, you know, a comparatively
01:17:09.600high level of hydroelectric power. But you can't do everything with electricity. I mean, you still
01:17:14.640have to, you know, I mean, you got to move gas around. And so despite being in favor of that
01:17:20.640project, as many of the indigenous folks on the band councils were, as they had articulated to
01:17:25.920the provincial government during negotiations, leaving the provincial government the position
01:17:29.180of thinking that everybody's basically in favor of this than a group of activists within the
01:17:35.440Wet'suwet Nation who were not really on the Bank Council, but were more aligned with their,
01:17:40.460like there were some hereditary chiefs there, et cetera. They set up blockades to try to stop it.
01:17:45.080And the reason why I supported their right to do that was not because I was opposed to the gas
01:17:50.360line coming through. I was opposed to the federal government being able to basically send in the
01:17:54.860RCMP into sovereign territory, whether you consider the Wet's Wet Nation to be sovereign
01:18:00.540or whether you consider British Columbia to be sovereign, I didn't like the idea of the RCMP
01:18:05.920coming in to enforce basically a corporate expansion into sovereign territory, even though
01:18:11.300I was in favor of that happening. And that's sort of, I think, the nuanced position that we,
01:18:15.240those kind of nuanced positions are what are important if we're going to bring people on
01:18:18.980board with this idea that it's possible for us to have more sovereignty and more say over what
01:18:24.120happens in our own in our own borders it's similar to the question on uh on inter-provincial travel
01:18:29.120during covid between bc and alberta i i i had to step up i'm not sure if you got into this in the
01:18:34.300in the opening segment uh but you know i'm i there was a lot of british columbians are calling for a
01:18:40.500total ban i mean people in my family are like who who who sort of you know they're caught in this
01:18:45.280tension between bc and alberta the ones that are still in bc they want that border shut right down
01:18:49.800right and i don't know down the rocky and i don't know if it's because they're worried about covid
01:18:53.280They just don't want the in-laws visiting as often, right?
01:18:56.780But whatever, you know, and you get on Twitter and that's all you see on there is people calling for more restrictions on our freedom and more lockdowns and all this kind of stuff.
01:19:07.160And, you know, people like me and I think people like you at the time were saying, well, hang on a second.
01:19:14.120Because let me back up when this question was posed to Premier Horgan in B.C., his position was, well, I don't think we really can shut down the border anyway.
01:19:23.000And we were wondering whether he was referring to a logistical argument or whether he was referring to making a constitutional argument, which are two different things.
01:19:31.060And when he was asked to clarify it, he sort of fell back to the logistical argument saying, well, it's logistically difficult or impossible to shut down all the entry points between BC and Alberta, which is just hogwash.
01:20:11.660And so if they got to come up with some excuse to try to shut that down, but it's just stupid.
01:20:15.740I mean, they're coming here, they're spending money and there are sisters and brothers, you know, just over the just over the provincial border.
01:20:21.680Like they're they're us. So I don't I don't know what what that was all about.
01:20:26.060But I was rather concerned for a moment that our premier would take the position that possibly that constitutionally we can't shut the border down.
01:20:34.160You damn right we can. And if the federal government disagrees, well, let's just do it anyway.
01:20:38.640Well, I mean, it's going to take 50 years to litigate the court case, and by then everyone's going to have forgotten that it happened.
01:20:43.480That's right. And so if they tell us, you know, you can't do that anymore, okay, well, thanks.
01:20:47.580We'll remember that until we do it again.
01:20:49.300But the point I want to make is you can take that position about having the sovereignty over your own provincial border without advocating to actually shut things down between BC and Alberta, which we're definitely agreed would just be stupid.
01:21:01.400And so that's another issue where it's just a good example of this question of sort of provincial versus federal sovereignty.
01:21:08.660And, you know, the points that you and Derek made in the opening segment were absolutely spot on.
01:21:13.320Most of the political parties out West, whether they're conservative or progressive, and the NDP is no exception in British Columbia in particular, they're all staunchly Federalist parties.
01:21:23.220So you're never going to get any discussion of this with an NDP government in British Columbia.
01:21:28.500I mean, the big story at the beginning of the NDP elevation back in 2017 was sort of this burgeoning bromance between Horgan and Trudeau, which, you know, I think a lot of people...
01:21:40.100Well, for people like me, it was. It was sickening, actually. It's just like, oh, God, really? Like, you know, why don't we just elect federal liberals then?
01:21:46.540Which we don't, thankfully, we don't really have in British Columbia. But the consequence of that, of course, is that federal liberals end up sort of infesting the, like there's an infestation in the BC NDP.
01:21:56.660And then there's also, you know, some of them end up in the more conservative-aligned parties.
01:22:01.020Certainly, there's lots in the B.C. Liberal Party.
01:22:04.440I mean, I think this question needs to be driven right through all of those parties.
01:22:09.080You know, where do you stand on these issues of provincial independence vis-a-vis the federal government?
01:22:13.520How willing are you to just contract out all of our sovereignty, provincial sovereignty and authority to Ottawa, which is, like I said, not that much farther away from us than Japan?
01:22:24.200you know and it doesn't and it certainly doesn't it doesn't seem that way with from the perspective
01:22:29.080of at least of international trade and internal trade in in canada i think something else that
01:22:33.800kind of needs to be noted here it's actually uh being brought up by one of our commenters here
01:22:37.400cindy is saying uh that you should have them on your show uh the chiefs that represent their
01:22:41.080territories and uh that's i think that is part of it it's like we have to find the stakeholders i
01:22:45.480mean this is kind of classic canadiana right like so so right from the beginning of confederation
01:22:49.560Right. We had we had, of course, somebody had to represent the French speaking as well as the Roman Catholic religion.
01:22:56.200Right. That was found in New France. Now, you know, then Quebec or, you know, lower Canada.
01:23:01.880And and then, of course, what was going on in Ontario. Right.
01:23:04.720Which was very strongly, very orange, very Protestant, very proud to not be Catholic.
01:23:10.580And then how to figure that negotiation out, though, of course, were minorities in both places.
01:23:14.700then there was the the the absentee landlord issues and the maritimes because people kind
01:23:20.720of colonized the maritimes the way they'd colonized whales right or at least in the sense that the
01:23:25.540power being projected by the majority or by the those in power over the people there was that
01:23:31.240yeah i know you can just be my serfs and it's like well this is the new world like can't we
01:23:35.220be free and have have our liberty and blah blah blah so i mean like this has always been kind of
01:23:39.980the thing like when it comes to canadian issues we have to find those we have to find of course
01:23:45.820it just the stakeholders right we have to find the stakeholders the people who can represent
01:23:49.680their particular population and then move forward but again this is actually a great place to
01:23:54.060mention something else that's been brought up between us before which is i think again maybe
01:23:59.460perhaps it's hard for people throughout the rest of western canada understand just how diverse bc
01:24:04.000is and that's diversity before we had more immigration okay and i'm not saying i'm against
01:24:08.840immigration or anything that's fine but i mean that like we have diversity of course since since
01:24:13.840newer immigration for sure and and the post-war boom and everything else that's happened in bc
01:24:17.700but there's a huge amount of diversity here too because it goes all the way right back to even
01:24:22.380our inception as a province there's literally like a firewall between church and state because of how
01:24:27.680paranoid uh the founders of our province were when it came to questions around uh say you know church
01:24:34.440to church schools versus uh versus provincial schools and public schools this is not a this
01:24:39.300is not an old uh or a new problem this is an old problem british columbia and the diversity of
01:24:45.080those stakeholders is a lot so the idea that you know the r150th is coming down the pipe here in
01:24:50.200bc obviously it's covid so that's probably not going to help anything but at our 150th how would
01:24:54.660we even celebrate bc properly it's pretty it's pretty hard like you've got so many different
01:25:00.860people that would have to represent their particular kind of background and what they
01:25:04.980bring to BC and then have them come together. And I just, you know, I come from, you know,
01:25:09.380my mother is a Mennonite and through Vanderhoof and then of course, Swift Current stock. So,
01:25:15.300you know, low German and everything else coming out of Saskatchewan, of course, like Mennonite,
01:25:19.400big population in the prairie. But this is a thing in a way, like I understand that belonging
01:25:24.980better than I understand it as it is out here in BC, because it's not, it's kind of a very
01:25:29.580important population right where she's from but it's it's rather diverse they're not necessarily
01:25:34.180all connected in bc even though they do share a similar faith and of course an ethnicity and the
01:25:38.280food and the family background the tradition like this that's a perfect example the same thing to
01:25:43.240the point of of the two aboriginal groups being against uh set up against each other on the
01:25:47.440question of the pipeline there's just a lot of diversity in bc and so the question of sovereignty
01:25:52.000or independence or getting more from ottawa it's so easy to conquer and divide in bc is kind of
01:25:57.160the point i'd make there that's a good point i really like this point that uh that we put up
01:26:01.040western canada had bc alberta saskatchewan and manitoba western canadian license plates only
01:26:08.380people wouldn't know which province you're from and discrimination would be more difficult
01:26:11.360that's a great idea the challenge of course is that um you know in bc we have uh there's a public
01:26:17.200monopoly on uh on auto insurance that's right which i'm very in favor of and you're probably
01:26:22.300not not in favor of uh but that would you know we'd have to reconcile between the provinces
01:26:26.260sort of who was issuing the plates and whether it was done through, you know, the evil public
01:26:30.780monopoly or left to the private sector. Or you could just draw your own. Yeah. So like straight
01:26:35.860up anarchy, you just make your own, get your own little piece of tin and then like get your little,
01:26:40.220you know, pound in your numbers from behind. But I just, I love that people are thinking like this
01:26:45.000because it, you know, the challenge I think we have before us is showing this kind of,
01:26:50.300you know, on the left, we call it solidarity, but showing this unity of purpose and identity
01:26:54.880despite our diversity between the provinces, because if we don't engender that kind of unity
01:27:01.260between the four Western provinces, Ottawa just continues to roll over us. And this is what the
01:27:05.420Western standard, of course, has been identifying for decades through its various iterations. And
01:27:10.120I'm really happy to see that that focus hasn't shifted in this newest iteration.
01:27:15.820But that's the challenge. And we talk a lot about diversity on this show. And even though I'm a
01:27:21.940progressive, I tend to agree with conservatives on this question of whether diversity is a
01:27:26.720strength or not. I don't think it's a strength. It doesn't mean that, you know, diversity is a
01:27:32.560bad thing, but it's a challenge. And you don't have to think too hard about this to understand
01:27:37.800that it's a challenge. Of course, it's a challenge when you have a whole number of people that have
01:27:41.300very different backgrounds and different politics and different views of the world and how the world
01:27:46.340works trying to to create this kind of unity of identity and culture uh in such a young country
01:27:53.020is is very difficult but it's a task that we we have to undertake in fact that's what the
01:27:58.460canadian project was absolutely it was and you know now we now we fly the slogans of how diversity
01:28:04.280is a strength which is actually it's disingenuous it doesn't help us it doesn't help any of us to
01:28:09.140try to try to pull everybody together um because it it totally ignores the challenges that are
01:28:15.920posed by diversity and sort of leaves us off the hook in trying to surmount those challenges
01:28:23.540and build that common unity and political purpose.
01:28:26.160I think there's an appetite for it across all cultural divides within, especially the
01:28:42.600People have different ideas of what that looks like.
01:28:44.480but this is what you know a lot of people on the left who are really talking about trying to ban
01:28:49.360everybody and all this cancel culture stuff and you get on twitter you say the wrong thing and
01:28:53.120next thing you know you lost your job and everything i mean all that does is suppress
01:28:56.880all of that discussion and so it's not like you know the people that they're banning it's not like
01:29:00.880their their opinions suddenly change or go away and that and that the you know the twitter ready
01:29:06.000of one uh they still exist it's just that they become further and it makes it it makes diversity
01:29:13.120even more difficult because people get not just diverse but separated and isolated where the
01:29:18.080strength of not just the western tradition i don't mean western tradition in the provincial
01:29:21.440sense but western tradition in the academic sense in the global sense the strength of it is that
01:29:26.800it's built on this idea that ideas should rub up against each other create friction
01:29:32.080and the result of that is some greater unity and emerging of those ideas a better idea and a better
01:29:37.840idea and a better understanding amongst people who don't see the world the same way so that
01:29:43.120uh you can come to some common understanding and consensus uh i mean i generally hate the
01:29:48.640word consensus but uh you know it's sort of apt in this i think i think that this but this is
01:29:52.960exactly it again in this inaugural show this is one of the reasons why we're doing what we're
01:29:56.560doing here it's important it's not just a symbol it's a it's a living thing an incarnational thing
01:30:01.120if you want to use a certain christian language the idea is that again like we are so siloed off
01:30:07.920from each other and i think that's how ottawa kind of continues to keep us under its thumb
01:30:11.360And the Laurentian consensus continues to keep Canada under just a terrible, a terrible kind of tyranny.
01:30:16.780Like, you don't have to get far from, it's not like it's just Ontario's fault.
01:30:20.020I like calling Ontario unterrible just to be that guy.
01:30:23.300But the truth is that right in the middle of Ontario, right, like right, as soon as you get away from the very small strip of land between Toronto and then, of course, using Lower Canada and Quebec all the way out to Gatsby, that very small strip of land, as soon as you get away from that stuff,
01:30:38.300Ontario and Quebec, like rural Ontarians and Quebecers,
01:34:49.080And we have to be partners in that. It doesn't mean that, you know, we don't share in the benefit of it. Absolutely, we should share in the benefit of it. I mean, I think the best way, I think pipelines should all be owned by BC Hydro that go through BC. And BC Hydro should be expanded to be a provincial energy crown corp so that we've got control over the infrastructure in this province that is most vital to our provincial interests.
01:35:12.080And if there's revenue that's derived from it, if there's wealth that's derived from it, which, of course, there is, it's going to us first.
01:35:18.900It's not going to people out of province, for instance, either through the way corporations siphon money out of the province or not.
01:35:25.460It's not to say that I want to freeze the private sector out.
01:35:28.500One of the functions of a crown corporation is also to contract in private sector contractors to do the work.
01:35:34.360But the ultimate revenue, the sale of the energy, the transport, the wealth that's generated, that's ours, man.
01:35:41.020And I think the reason why people on the left get so angry when I say that is because, you know, you just can't say, look, I think we actually should we actually should build pipelines.
01:35:50.300Now, that's another one of your opinions is probably going to get you in trouble on both sides, because on the other side, it's not on the right side.
01:35:55.780All I can hear is it's not even I'm not an Albertan, but I could hear it from a chorus somewhere in the back that, you know, that sounds like the national energy program again.
01:36:07.940Yeah, we'll call it the Western Energy Project.
01:36:11.640Perhaps one thing to assuage any of the anger that might be stemming from our brothers and sisters on the other side of the mountains is that it should be noted that, of course, that was also administered from Ottawa, and that's why it didn't work.
01:36:26.440And maybe the other way to look at it, too, is that when the oil crash came, and I mourned the oil crash, I was right in the middle of getting my welding when the oil crash came.
01:36:35.460So obviously competing with guys who had their A tickets and 10 years of experience for a job that paid less than $20 an hour after oil crashed was not working for me.
01:36:44.660So I got to suffer through that milieu as well.
01:36:46.820But the point is that maybe another way of looking at it is that whatever was going right for Alberta before everything went sideways in 2014, I mean, did those private corps show up after things went sideways?
01:37:01.340And so whether we have to call it the banal and very evil name, we all know the National Energy Program or Provincial Energy Program, the BC Energy Program.
01:37:11.060The thing is that whatever was happening after peak oil, I think that Albertans really been left behind.
01:37:16.900And I think they've been let down by their own their own people on this or people out of out of province people, international corporations that have kind of let them down.
01:37:26.880So we need to find a way to make things more equitable on all these questions.
01:37:30.820Whether we're talking about trees or oil or gas or hydro, there needs to be a way forward that definitely keeps that stake in our country, in our province, in our neighborhood.
01:37:40.320And the wealth from it is generated and brought back home.
01:45:11.400In British Columbia, I would say it's like it's even more divided.
01:45:14.600And the pro-development forces and advocates have a more difficult time in British Columbia having that conversation because there is this onslaught that's ever present of people that just, you know, they won't even talk to you if you entertain any continuation of fossil fuel-based industry or energy production.
01:45:33.720And I think that the biggest thing for me is it's not even a question of like pointing out hypocrisy or whatever else.
01:45:38.860The single biggest thing for me is that it's like, it's not just the transitional thing, right?
01:45:43.200you know sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath right like we either we can either live in
01:45:47.520a more human world or we can live in a more inhuman one i would choose the human one but
01:45:52.000the flip side of the equation in my mind is that the fact of the matter is even if we were to try
01:45:57.040to get to the ultimate green stuff they talk about um wind farms and tidal stuff like because even
01:46:02.960hydro uh for a lot of these environmental people is not if that's not good enough it's still too
01:46:07.520much it's too uh destructive to the environment that sort of thing and and indeed it does have
01:46:12.480destructive capabilities environment i'm not acknowledging that but again if we're going to
01:46:16.560try and put things on the level or get get a hierarchy of of uh what is worse and what is
01:46:23.000better uh that i think hydro is pretty high up there for for a better kind of use of energy
01:46:27.780but nonetheless the point is that like we can't just leave people behind i think that's the
01:46:32.080biggest thing and indeed that's kind of that's again the western alienation thing all wrapped
01:46:35.820up in one little phrase right people feel left behind they feel like auto was just doing whatever
01:46:39.500it wants and it doesn't care what they do and coming back to this this issue these debates that
01:46:44.560we need to have about how we're going to move forward into into a brighter future right and
01:46:49.480perhaps a greener future whatever that means that transition has to be extremely well managed and
01:46:55.300and we can't be leaving people behind and and to the covid point as well you know there's that i
01:46:59.920think it's in uh what is it the big short or whatever there's that line it's like you realize
01:47:03.300that every single point of uh unemployment is literally 10 000 people killing themselves right
01:47:09.040Like, I mean, that's the United States numbers and whatever. Right. But I mean, social cost, yeah, the social cost to what has happened. And I think I'm no I'm I believe the virus exists. I don't there's no argument here that COVID-19 is or isn't real. It is real. We know it's real. The issue, though, is that our reaction to it.
01:47:29.060I really do believe that when we analyze the numbers, whenever we finally get out of this whole pandemic mentality and finally move on, I think when we analyze the numbers, we're going to find that our prescriptions to COVID and using the lockdowns and stuff actually cost, I think that will have ended up costing more lives than COVID took.
01:47:48.000Yeah. I really like this comment by John Frank here. Let's put it up on the screen. I know that there are a lot of shady things happening in northern BC and the views of the NDP is different to the conservative side. If we turn into a Western country, do you think that the border should leave or stay so that we can think of one as the same as now?
01:50:47.560Well, this is the perfect place to talk about it.
01:50:49.780Well, we're coming to the end of our show here.
01:50:53.140So maybe we should do some closing statements here, maybe some closing questions from summing up and concluding.
01:50:58.120I think, again, just from the start, number one, thank you for joining us and thank you for supporting the Western standard.
01:51:03.340It's extremely important that we have these conversations and that and that we continue to grow this movement,
01:51:09.180this movement that would see the West either get a fair deal from Ottawa or get away from Ottawa and do what's right for the people who live here,
01:51:17.720regardless of race, class, creed, colour and background.
01:51:21.480But further to that, I mean, as a kind of closing question here, what as a progressive would you like to see on the right?
01:51:29.460And then I'll say what on the right we would like to see at a progressive to help us know that we have an ally there in this question of sovereignty or at least a better life for Western states.
01:51:38.120I'm more interested in your answer because I think this discussion is well developed on the right.
01:51:43.280And that's sort of been my attraction to having conversations with a number of conservatives where I wouldn't normally have done that.
01:51:49.780Because those are the folks that are discussing this and making good points in the debate.
01:51:55.120And even if I disagree with a number of takes on things, I'm just delighted that people are having this conversation somewhere.
01:52:01.500And so you have to go where the conversation is taking place.
01:52:04.560And so, I mean, I could say things like, well, look, I think conservatives in this discussion have to be, you know, you have to make more space for, especially in British Columbia,
01:52:16.040of opposing views on this with an intention to try to bring those people into the discussion
01:52:20.320closer so that we can find some basis of unity. And it's difficult in British Columbia, I think,
01:52:24.760because of those sort of historic tensions, political tensions between
01:52:27.560BC and some of the other Western provinces because of sort of the higher level of progressivism
01:52:32.080that exists here. But again, I mean, that could just be my own perception of an incorrect
01:52:36.820perception of conservatives as a progressive. So I hesitate to sort of give that advice to
01:52:41.000conservatives because, again, I think you're actually doing a better job of having this
01:52:44.460discussion which is why i'm here uh but i am i am curious about your your take i think i think
01:52:51.080maybe as a concluding thought on my end it's that ultimately i think a lot of people on the right
01:52:57.160just just and we do paint addresses with the same brush but i mean i mean that's kind of what
01:53:01.800twitter's done to this situation twitter has made it all look like all the blue checks are the same
01:53:06.460right they're all just going to come and get you and cancel you i think it's kind of true actually
01:53:09.740so so i mean like but in real life i think the biggest thing is that it just has just as you
01:53:17.140know uh a conservative might be more pro-gun and a progressive is often more anti-gun or those kind
01:53:22.660of watershed issues maybe a place to start is that any any kind of issue uh is sought to be
01:53:29.500solved at the lowest possible level first right which is which is i mean we're gonna keep referencing
01:53:33.980all these things that's called subsidiarity at least from the tradition i come from in catholic
01:53:38.000social teachings but the but subsidiarity or the idea that there should be at least solidarity maybe
01:53:42.840use the left-wing word at the lowest possible level so if i'm going to solve a problem in my
01:53:48.240neighborhood i don't just start a campaign that i guess will solve all the problems in all the
01:53:52.580neighborhoods across the country where i need to start some big activist thing it's like no i need
01:53:57.120to go to my neighbor's house knock on the door i guess we are in covet or whatever maybe i'll send
01:54:01.000them an email the point is i need to network with my neighbor and my next neighbor and the next guy
01:54:05.960down the street and then that's how movements can start right at the local level I'm not saying that
01:54:09.800this doesn't happen on the left organization does happen like this on the left but it needs to
01:54:13.720happen and even questions around like what are we going to do with this street what are we going to
01:54:18.200do with garbage collection what are we going to do about about questions of noise complaints or
01:54:22.360whether or not whether or not we support what this new infrastructure that's coming through
01:54:26.220because I feel like on the right it just always seems like the left will immediately try and phone
01:54:30.680Ottawa or Victoria or Calgary or Edmonton or any of the any of the Western
01:54:36.140provincial capitals right and Regina and Winnipeg and so and so that they'll
01:54:42.740immediately get on the phone to a higher-up and instead of trying to
01:54:46.700actually have a conversation yeah someone on the yeah with someone on the
01:54:50.280level yeah yeah that's absolutely true no that's good advice so we'll see what
01:54:54.560we can do there you go well again thank you so much for joining us today it's
01:54:59.740been my pleasure to do this inaugural show i apologize for some of the technical difficulties
01:55:04.540we experienced during it but thank you for your patience and and thank you for supporting the
01:55:08.460western standard of course do take out a subscription if you can uh be sure to share
01:55:12.700this video and like this video and again we're looking for feedback so please put comments on
01:55:18.700the video or send an email to me via the western you can find me on the western and uh i believe
01:55:23.980It's just ngita at westernonline, westernstandardonline.com.
01:55:29.080Though we are doing some stuff to our emails in the next couple of days here.
01:55:32.220So if I don't get back to you, I'm sorry.