Western Standard - Mountain Standard Time June 22, 2021

00:00:00.000 Nathan, have you done a mic check yet?

00:00:19.040 Yes. Yes, I have.

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 Thank you.

00:01:30.000 Good morning and welcome to Mountain Standard Time. I'm your host Nathan Ghida and of course

00:01:36.060 I'll be joined today by Sheldon Clare, President of the National Firearms Association, but also

00:01:40.880 of course a historian in his day job. He's going to talk to us a little about the destruction of

00:01:45.380 history that's happening both here literally in British Columbia as fires blaze, as well as

00:01:49.920 across the country as statues are removed and protests ensue, attempting to try and figure out

00:01:55.260 Where should Canada go from here? And where did we come from? Was it all bad? But let's start on

00:02:00.520 this question. You know, we stand upon the shoulders of giants. At least that was the

00:02:05.400 original idea. Everything that we have as a species, as a people group, faith, ethnicity,

00:02:11.040 class, or creed comes to us via the past from the sufferings and tribulations of generations

00:02:15.900 long gone, even forgotten some of them. This is a plain fact, and it can't be denied,

00:02:21.840 even by the most illusionary people. We do not conceive of ourselves. Someone conceives us for

00:02:29.100 us. And yet, we live in a historical moment where our past is being treated as if it was disposable,

00:02:35.860 as if we owe nothing to our forebears. There might not be a more ignorant statement in our time than

00:02:41.220 the apologies or false outrages made regarding past injustice. Bad things happened yesterday.

00:02:48.240 they're happening right now they're going to happen tomorrow unless that final trumpet sounds 0.71

00:02:53.220 so statues of Sir John A. and Ryerson and other historical figures are being removed or vandalized

00:02:59.080 and of course that history is complicated there's no question that the history of that time is

00:03:04.240 complicated and attitudes of yesteryear might not find a happy hearing today but with the tools they

00:03:11.660 had and with the ambition that drove them they built one of the most just societies the world

00:03:16.440 has ever known, called the Dominion of Canada. And if we get rid of that history, we're only

00:03:22.260 doomed to repeat it. Recently, in southern British Columbia, the historically significant Catholic

00:03:27.380 churches in two communities have been burned, some of them dating back all the way to the 1910th.

00:03:33.040 Fires are being treated as suspicious by the RCMP, and no wonder, given the recent discovery of 215

00:03:38.900 people's remains at the Kamloops Indian Residential School. Again, outrage is understandable at that

00:03:46.260 discovery but the destruction of our heritage does not make sense and indeed it appears extreme

00:03:51.900 even dangerous what if someone had been killed would anybody have apologized would anybody have

00:03:56.520 claimed responsibility part of the problem is we simply do not know our history because we choose

00:04:01.340 not to teach it we have all heard of the terrible things Canada is responsible for

00:04:06.500 but what about those great strivings we've made in the past whether it was universal suffrage

00:04:14.040 whether it was Vimy Ridge, whether it was the nature of Confederation and how democratically

00:04:18.360 sober that was, or how about the questions and strides we made after the Second World War

00:04:24.680 that led to a more just and equitable society in this country. We have many things to be proud of,

00:04:29.940 but why aren't those things being taught, particularly in our tax-subsidized classrooms?

00:04:34.560 It can't go on, of course. Without a sense of history, man wanders the earth in a confused fog.

00:04:39.660 To know where you are going, you must know where you've been and where you're coming from.

00:04:43.180 We can only pray the insanity ends.

00:04:45.460 We are finally able to honestly assess our past, present, and future.

00:04:50.100 And so that brings us on with President of the National Firearms Association, of course, historian Sheldon Clare.

00:04:55.860 How are you doing this morning, Sheldon?

00:04:57.760 I'm well, Nathan.

00:04:58.860 I'm joining you today from lovely Hamilton, Ontario.

00:05:02.620 I'm here for some meetings, and it's good to see you.

00:05:06.980 I'm glad everything's going well.

00:05:08.400 I'm sorry to hear about this destruction of churches.

00:05:11.720 I think that's a very terrible mark on our country to see that that kind of activity is going on.

00:05:20.600 And in some circles, apparently, it's even being condoned.

00:05:22.900 And I think that's appalling.

00:05:25.380 Reprehensible, I think. Reprehensible.

00:05:28.100 The question, of course, becomes when people start burning churches, let alone books, when will they start burning people?

00:05:35.400 We've seen these kind of things before.

00:05:37.220 do you think this is being done uh purely for for kind of petty vengeance or is there is there a

00:05:42.820 violent element happening here as well well i wouldn't want to try to put motives to people

00:05:48.660 who are doing such vandal vandalism and such heinous acts but it's uh you know there are there

00:05:55.140 are certainly people out there who feel very strongly about recent discoveries in kamloops

00:06:01.140 they're you know they've got they've got a context to feel strongly about that

00:06:06.280 but going around and burning down churches throwing paint on queen victoria statue in

00:06:12.500 front of victoria legislature victoria the legislature in victoria uh throwing paint on

00:06:18.140 churchill's statue ripping down other memorials and statues and defacing them it's nothing short

00:06:23.540 of vandalism and worse and it needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law

00:06:28.760 something that probably needs to be understood a little bit better by by some of our our

00:06:34.440 listenership and our viewers but also by you know myself i'm happy to always be educated on this

00:06:39.140 point is what happened to canadian history canadian history even from my boyhood seemed

00:06:44.400 to be a little bit more jubilant a little bit less dreary and dour it's understood that it was a hard

00:06:49.980 land to tame uh there were some hard people who came here there are hard people who are already

00:06:54.800 here and there was some conflict intention and friction throughout that long struggle but a

00:07:00.080 fundamentally there was also a lot of there was also a lot of cooperation i mean the europeans

00:07:05.520 who came to canada in different waves would not have been as successful as they were without the

00:07:10.720 collaboration and cooperation of the native peoples that they encountered i think that's

00:07:14.720 that's well understood and it it is uh important to understand that this was a tough there were

00:07:22.080 tough times that built this country and they were tough people and they had to do a lot of things

00:07:26.320 nowadays many of us would find very difficult but we weren't there we weren't in their shoes we

00:07:31.920 weren't in that time and we have no time machine to go back and be able to uh you know the armchair

00:07:40.400 quarterbacks for their particular roles in society but the one thing is for sure and i think jason

00:07:46.000 kennedy said this the other day that without john a mcdonald there's no canada you know you had

00:07:52.000 that force of will which he brought to the game that made it happen without without him you don't

00:08:01.680 get the country we have today without the prime ministers that followed him you don't get the

00:08:06.420 country we have today and I think that what we're seeing is a real breakdown in respect for law and

00:08:16.240 order, a breakdown of understanding and conceptualization of history.

00:08:22.340 We have people who are making very emotional decisions on historical situations without

00:08:28.820 all of the context, without all of the facts.

00:08:31.940 And I think that it's a very, very dangerous path to trod that we're headed down.

00:08:38.300 I mean, it absolutely just tears me apart to see these beautiful monuments, which some people

00:08:48.620 regard as painful memories of a distant past being attacked. I find that really problematic.

00:08:57.180 And I think it's a sign of our times that we are really given a lot of information, but we don't

00:09:05.580 have a lot of context in order to better understand and deal with that information i mean i've seen

00:09:10.300 slanderous things said about people who disagree with each other it's very quick to uh put people

00:09:18.060 down it calls the people being you're you know someone that you have an argument with somebody

00:09:23.020 they're very quick to say well you're a racist you're a bigot or this or that and that's not

00:09:28.220 okay you know i've been attacked myself for being direct about many issues and it's it's appalling

00:09:37.740 to see how some people can sit behind a keyboard in the dark in the night in their in their basement

00:09:43.660 of their mother's house and type out vile diatribes attacking others without any in-depth

00:09:50.700 understanding of greater context or of any responsibility they may have to bear for their

00:09:57.180 words and and indeed they don't have to bear responsibility and perhaps that's the greatest

00:10:02.880 uh ignorant uh action that's going on right now when it comes to our criticism of the past is

00:10:08.500 that we we have all the benefits of those past decisions and we bear no responsibility for the 0.96

00:10:14.500 wrong that may or may not have occurred and we're certainly we're not taking responsibility for it

00:10:19.200 for ourselves where we might make apologies in our day and age lots of politicians like making

00:10:23.660 apologies and then they're happy to watch statues get carted away or have names changed to various

00:10:29.260 monuments or parks or whatever else but the real the real actual persistent issues do not change

00:10:34.380 around poverty homelessness none of those things change exactly and it's very very easy for someone

00:10:41.340 to apologize it's much more difficult to take action to correct the fundamental underlying

00:10:48.540 problems and issues i mean we're sitting here tearing down statues and and trying to throw

00:10:53.260 money at these issues, but we're not putting money where it needs to be. I mean, there are still

00:10:58.540 reserves in Canada that have trouble getting fresh water. There are still places in this

00:11:04.060 country where it's difficult to have access, good road access, access to good healthcare,

00:11:11.660 education, and everything else. And yet we're busy doing the self-flagellation over memorials

00:11:19.420 and statutes and so on without really trying to address real problems that affect real people

00:11:25.420 today and tomorrow and and indeed they do indeed they do address these issues or they try to they

00:11:33.340 try to address them in perhaps the most false way possible of virtue signaling most of our leaders

00:11:38.620 you you teach history uh that's your that's your full-time job and your and your day job

00:11:44.060 uh where you where you ground a lot of your political action explaining to people that

00:11:48.700 actually there is a political basis for firearms rights in canada and and the pursuit of course

00:11:53.580 of more liberty in canada let's talk a little bit about what's gone wrong here why why is canadian

00:11:59.260 history today the way it's being taught in many places motivating people into these frenzies

00:12:04.940 rather than a kind of more sober second thought of like there was a complicated time some good

00:12:09.100 things happened some bad things happened let's try and learn from those mistakes well i think

00:12:12.940 the challenge for history has always been time when you're trying to when you're trying to look

00:12:17.580 at history has a particular uh vocation or when you're trying to teach history the whole issue

00:12:24.780 is what do you teach you know you you're in a particular course when you're teaching history

00:12:30.540 you have some parameters but you still have a lot of flexibility about what you teach and how you

00:12:35.820 divide it up i i think i i use the the uh analogy that my colleague dr george davison uh discussed

00:12:45.020 with me many years ago that history is like a rope a great big rope with fibers and strands

00:12:52.780 and tendrils and little little threads and all of these together make up a story however you don't

00:13:00.780 have the time to go over the whole rope so what what you see is what historians do is they tend

00:13:07.180 to pull the threads out and they concentrate on the on focusing on these threads and sometimes

00:13:13.820 you get into some kind of a small fiber on the rope and you're not looking at the bigger rope

00:13:19.900 you know so i i'm i'm kind of a whole rope kind of historian i i like i like to look at the big

00:13:26.140 picture and then we concentrate on the smaller aspects of history right you you you focus i

00:13:32.620 mean different types of historians have different types of backgrounds i'm a military historian

00:13:36.940 so my interest is conflict my interest is is uh the the drums and the trumpets and the battles and

00:13:43.820 and all of that, and my specialty is siege warfare.

00:13:46.940 It's taught me to be very patient.

00:13:48.980 And I look at that kind of element of history,

00:13:52.800 but there are social historians who are interested

00:13:55.940 in the people whose voices may not have been represented

00:14:00.800 well historically over long periods of time.

00:14:05.280 So that's been getting a lot of emphasis probably

00:14:07.760 for the last 30 years in a lot of history classes.

00:14:11.160 And what we, well, what I think needs to happen

00:14:14.880 is we need to get back and look at that rope again

00:14:17.080 and look at the bigger picture.

00:14:19.200 And the tendency, of course, in some historical teaching

00:14:22.920 is to look at things and glorify them.

00:14:26.460 And that's probably not the wisest approach either.

00:14:29.920 I think you have to present history warts and all.

00:14:32.580 And I think you have to say, well, you know,

00:14:34.720 this is what happened, but what we need to look at is why.

00:14:39.840 why did it happen why were these decisions made in this particular way and what does that mean

00:14:45.920 now what's the significance of it and i remember my old high school teacher keith gordon going

00:14:51.120 going on about so what this happened so what what does that mean now and what does that mean for

00:14:58.480 tomorrow and i think we are really leaving behind the significance of things that have happened and

00:15:05.280 Or we're judging them poorly, or some people are judging them poorly in making decisions about ripping down monuments and statues and doing things like burning down churches, if that's what the origin of those particular incidents was.

00:15:21.780 perhaps something that we could start off on a little bit here trying to give some context to

00:15:27.940 it seems like a lot of people really do believe or rather have been led to believe that basically

00:15:34.640 sir john a mcdonald and a bunch of his is you know co-conspirators essentially built the

00:15:40.620 residential schools themselves laid the brick and mortar themselves as they you know cackled about 1.00

00:15:45.320 how they were going to destroy the aboriginal people that that is kind of the caricature that's

00:15:50.280 being painted in people's minds today.

00:15:52.600 How far is that from the truth?

00:15:54.940 Well, I think there is some truth to that.

00:15:57.360 I think that at the turn of the century,

00:15:59.660 you even had a movement that I think Edward Blake,

00:16:01.820 who was one of the cabinet ministers,

00:16:05.460 I think in Laurier's government,

00:16:07.200 who was involved with the White Canada Forever Movement.

00:16:10.000 And that's a problematic aspect of Canadian history,

00:16:13.820 which you don't see talked about very much.

00:16:16.320 And there certainly was a desire for assimilation, but there's also had it with its desire to provide education.

00:16:25.120 And I think the thing that we need to understand is really up until around the 1840s, education was not a thing for people except in a narrow religious setting or for the elites in society.

00:16:37.380 They would get an education and it would not be something for the average person to get.

00:16:42.080 You know, the average person maybe had very limited access to education and was involved in a highly agrarian society.

00:16:50.840 And as society became more urban and more industrialized, different skills were needed in order to have participation in that society.

00:16:59.660 And I think Aboriginal peoples were one of the first to recognize that they needed additional skills in order to develop a better relationship and understanding of this rapidly changing society.

00:17:12.540 I mean, they were seeing it change much more rapidly than many others.

00:17:16.300 And this is the reason that in many cases there were calls for education up to the age of 16 for everybody.

00:17:26.940 And the fact of the matter was that Aboriginal peoples were regarded as wards of the federal government, not the provincial government.

00:17:36.260 Education is a provincial responsibility, as we know, in the British North America Act.

00:17:40.720 And the federal power was responsible for Native peoples under the Indian Act, except for the North.

00:17:49.200 The Inuit and peoples up there were not included in this particular concept for quite some time.

00:17:56.620 that took a while, as well as Métis people, that also was treated separately.

00:18:03.340 Now, as governments are, you're inefficient about some things, so what ended up happening

00:18:08.940 with the craft, industrial, and then residential schools from 1920 was they tried to establish

00:18:16.580 central areas which they could bring people to, because they couldn't afford to put schools

00:18:23.300 in every reserve and some some reserves were very very small some some of the bands were quite tiny

00:18:29.220 and it just had it was very practically difficult to do that and they looked at the options for how

00:18:35.220 they could best deliver education i mean johnny mcdonald was one who wanted native people to have

00:18:40.260 the vote and and worked hard to to get that done and comments that have been published and are are

00:18:48.740 made they're in context and out of context about you know the the common one you hear is about

00:18:54.420 taking the the native out of the child is one of the one of the comments that you see thrown out

00:18:59.940 with its modern view and modern context but i think at the time this was the the intent is

00:19:07.460 the big thing to look at and you hear the word genocide rather i don't think there is an intent

00:19:12.420 of genocide in this at all i think that the intent was to provide an education to best

00:19:18.980 get people to be able to fully participate in this new industrialized society.

00:19:25.220 And that's a difficult point of history for people to wrap their minds around.

00:19:31.380 It's not an easy time, it's not an easy circumstance, and it was executed very badly in many respects.

00:19:38.580 I mean, the structure of the English boarding school, which was the model for

00:19:43.380 many of the residential schools was such that you lived in a large dormitory type room with many

00:19:52.000 people sleeping in the same room, like a barracks. And this is an ideal circumstance to spread 1.00

00:19:59.820 disease. So when you're looking at child mortality rates, particularly amongst Aboriginal

00:20:06.640 populations that ranged from about 23% to 27%. That's one in four kids are going to die in that

00:20:15.460 time because of lack of ability to have medical treatment, bad water, injuries that don't have

00:20:21.360 the ability to provide antibiotics to treat, infection, all of those sorts of things.

00:20:27.220 So it is not a surprise to see that there are large numbers of kids who die at those times

00:20:32.720 and even die while they're at residential schools or whether they're still at the reserve.

00:20:36.640 I mean, only about a third of Native children actually ever went to a residential school in the time of the residential school era.

00:20:43.760 And from the late mid-50s forward, about equal numbers of Native and Native Aboriginal children were going to public school as well as residential schools.

00:20:58.900 And the death rates remain the same.

00:21:02.280 And so, again, these are not things that get discussed.

00:21:05.040 what gets discussed is the again you're picking up history from the wrong end of the rope is that

00:21:09.520 well people people lied and people died that's that's essentially what the argument is that

00:21:14.940 that there was a false a false mission articulated you know assimilation didn't need to happen

00:21:20.860 people didn't need to have this happen to them and now we need to pay the price do some recompense

00:21:26.880 penance possibly even um you know uh reclamation of monies and i think i think there's a real lack

00:21:33.060 of understanding of the type of lives people had at the turn of the 20th century into the early

00:21:37.860 20s and around World War I. Karen Teeson asks an interesting question there. I understand that a

00:21:43.100 lot of children died from disease, but why weren't they sent home to be given a ceremonial burial?

00:21:47.820 Well, I think that one needs to understand that where home was was probably somewhat questionable

00:21:54.900 in many cases. Many peoples were often on long trips. They're out hunting, hard to contact.

00:22:01.680 they didn't have cell phones, they didn't have telephones in the most cases, and some of them

00:22:06.400 were hundreds of kilometers away. This is a time when the ability to travel and provide refrigerated

00:22:14.720 funeral services to keep bodies cool and so on for transportation was simply not a possibility.

00:22:20.880 It's one of the reasons in the First World War, soldiers get buried where they fall. They generally

00:22:26.240 weren't transported back home. That just wasn't an option for most of them because they had to

00:22:33.760 be buried where they fell because of the large numbers and everything else. Now, in terms of

00:22:38.880 children dying in school and the high child mortality rates that we see at the beginning

00:22:45.280 of the 20th century, you have a circumstances where you have an epidemic going through.

00:22:51.520 maybe you have the influenza from 1918 1922 the spanish influenza epidemic which killed 50 million

00:22:57.760 people at least worldwide uh you don't have people that are able to transport you may not even have

00:23:04.240 people to convey messages and and get that done people are buried quickly so as to limit the

00:23:11.280 spread of disease and that's particularly important with virulent diseases such as smallpox is to

00:23:16.480 is to make sure that they're not out and that all of their stuff, everything they've touched

00:23:23.040 is burned and they're buried quickly. So this is not a surprise to me that you see these sorts of

00:23:31.600 groupings of people buried, not vascular, but individual graves. It's also the case that

00:23:36.720 cremation was a very common form of means of disposing of bodies prior to contact. The

00:23:46.240 burial and consecrated ground tended to be a post-contact thing for for many native groups

00:23:52.720 and there were some that did practice burial uh prior to contact but in the most cases it was it

00:23:58.000 was cremation i'm not hearing you something that maybe you could give us an insight into is your

00:24:08.160 own uh is are you not hearing me yeah i'm hearing you now just a moment i'm going to play with my

00:24:14.480 microphone can you hear me now yes okay perfect so uh i think i think that uh yeah perfect so i

00:24:24.320 think that that perhaps you could tell us a little bit about your attempts to investigate the local

00:24:30.640 uh the local uh situation when it comes to a burial site we have here in prince george of

00:24:35.680 course a burial site uh in in our local park and we're trying to understand who was buried there

00:24:42.160 and why were they buried there what's uh what's our understanding uh of of what happened there

00:24:47.440 and why aren't we able to get access to those records well yeah thank you for bringing that one

00:24:52.880 up uh yeah about about uh i think it's about two years ago now there were excavations being done

00:25:00.560 in the clitley tinae memorial park and clitley tinae memorial park in uh is it located in prince

00:25:09.040 george bc it used to be called fort george park the name was changed by city council in order to

00:25:16.000 to meet with concerns about the native cemetery that's there it was a village that was operated

00:25:23.200 by the northwest company and later the hudson's bay company it was built to accommodate the the

00:25:30.080 native peoples who worked at the fort as well as a few of the the factor and others who were

00:25:35.680 non-native and the area that is in what collectively we call clitly can name memorial park

00:25:44.160 is now uh you know a very popular recreational activity for families and so on for a short time

00:25:50.800 in the 1950s it was a golf course and there were some excavations made to create a new pavilion

00:25:58.320 out behind Exploration Place, and they found a number of bodies that were not in what is called

00:26:05.360 Indian Reserve No. 1, which is the cemetery in the park. So the park probably has in excess of

00:26:14.240 some 200 to 300 burials, something more, dating back in some cases probably well over 100 years.

00:26:24.280 Now, it's pretty clearly the case that not everybody who is buried in that park

00:26:29.580 is Interior Carrier or Clayton Ate.

00:26:33.200 There would be some who are from other bands.

00:26:35.540 There would be some who are people who are working on the railroad,

00:26:40.040 people who drowned in the river.

00:26:42.040 And there is a whole variety of people who are probably buried in that park over time.

00:26:48.380 And so I put in an access to information request,

00:26:51.040 as did Neil Godbutt from the Prince George Citizen in order to get access to the report

00:26:56.720 which said who exactly these people were who were buried there so we didn't access the information

00:27:02.320 requests and we went through the processes and we were denied and we went uh we went on a little

00:27:12.960 further uh to to uh to to follow up on on this and submitted information provided early records uh

00:27:26.080 look at the historical context because my belief is that it it's good to give people their identities

00:27:33.200 you know they you should know who these people were we should know about them and i think that

00:27:38.080 I think that serves education.

00:27:39.760 And one of the things I teach is local history at the local college.

00:27:43.480 And it seemed to me that it would be worthwhile to know a better, more complete picture of

00:27:49.640 the history rather than a sanitized or abbreviated version, which would otherwise be the case.

00:27:58.780 So, but we couldn't get access to this.

00:28:01.140 Shortly after the access to information requests were made, the bodies were reinterred within Indian Reserve No. 1, the cemetery in Claytonay Memorial Park.

00:28:14.400 So, you know, that was done very quickly.

00:28:17.260 But there was a report produced by the anthropologists involved, and that report has been kept secret.

00:28:23.000 And that's what we wanted was that report and the information it contained about these people.

00:28:28.700 We were told that we couldn't have this information because it would affect ongoing treaty negotiations, which subsequently to us being told that the treaty negotiations unfortunately collapsed.

00:28:39.820 Then we were told that releasing the report would damage relationships between the First Nations community there and the provincial government.

00:28:48.820 And that made me want the information even more because, well, why would it damage those relationships?

00:28:55.660 Would it damage them because of a lack of trust, as was argued by one of the participants?

00:29:02.040 Or would it damage them because the information doesn't fit the narrative that is being provided as the truth?

00:29:07.880 So, you know, it's an ongoing effort to try to get this information.

00:29:11.580 And I look at the sad state of finding this collection of graves in Kamloops of these children who died probably while they were attending the residential school and were interred there.

00:29:25.660 And, you know, who exactly were they?

00:29:29.040 What happened?

00:29:30.120 All that information.

00:29:31.020 We don't know all that information.

00:29:33.660 You know, we have a lot of speculation.

00:29:35.820 We have a lot of anger, emotion that covers this, but we don't have the facts.

00:29:42.420 And when we don't have this, this creates speculation.

00:29:45.860 And social media nowadays is a huge source for building a narrative when one doesn't exist.

00:29:52.300 And when you see that narrative being constructed, you're not necessarily getting, well, you're probably not getting an actual accurate history.

00:30:03.360 So what you see is a form of emotion-based history that really lacks context, lacks the necessary resources.

00:30:16.460 And you need a multidisciplinary approach to this.

00:30:19.420 You need to have the First Nations oral histories considered.

00:30:22.720 You need to have the anthropology considered with the science.

00:30:27.040 And you need to look at the historical records, many of which now that the Oblates put together 1.00

00:30:32.480 when they were looking after the residential schools are held by the Royal BC Museum

00:30:36.260 and the excellent archivists they have there.

00:30:38.940 But it's not something like you can just go to a file and pull it out and say, oh, here it is.

00:30:42.620 These are boxes and boxes of materials that go back over 100 years.

00:30:48.200 This is a major project, and an archivist isn't just going to let anybody walk in there and go willy-nilly through it and mix things up and all of that.

00:30:54.660 That would destroy the historical record.

00:30:56.200 It has to be handled with discipline, care, and respect in order to properly provide the best picture of the information that we can so we can build that rope with its tendrils and fibers and strands.

00:31:09.440 So that's what needs to happen.

00:31:11.280 And I mean, I see so much emotion.

00:31:14.820 I mean, I've been called a racist and bigot for being critical of comments, attacking various individuals who had some involvements with these things.

00:31:25.520 And I'm looking at this and I'm going, well, you know, you don't have any evidence.

00:31:28.480 And, you know, we're all about the evidence, the what happened, the why, and so on, so we can get the full picture.

00:31:34.520 And if we're denied access to information, we don't get the full picture.

00:31:42.820 I'm not.

00:31:43.420 indeed we don't indeed we don't uh there there might be a there might be a slight delay

00:31:50.280 i i hear you now sorry about that we're going to try and rectify that as best we can the

00:31:55.360 producers working on it yeah no just a slight delay so the the thing is that maybe something

00:32:02.140 else we can get into there then is that we are if we want to stay local with this topic

00:32:05.880 is the topic of bishop o'grady himself i mean bishop o'grady obviously was in charge of the

00:32:10.860 Kamloops Indian Residential School at one point, and then he became the Bishop of Prince George.

00:32:16.460 Maybe you could weigh into that a little bit about what his legacy was and what we should

00:32:20.860 be thinking about when it comes to Mr. O'Grady, well, Bishop O'Grady rather, his Reverend Bishop

00:32:25.680 O'Grady, and what he represents when it comes to education and interactions with First Nations.

00:32:32.400 Oh, well, sure. And I mean, I want to just preface this by saying I'm not a Catholic historian. I'm

00:32:37.620 not a Roman Catholic. That's not my area of expertise. My area, I do have some expertise 0.98

00:32:44.940 in local history. And I do know that the Catholic lands in what is now called College Heights up

00:32:50.860 in Prince George were owned by the Catholic Church. They're developed by the Catholic Church.

00:32:56.260 Bishop O'Grady himself was renowned far and wide by Catholics and non-Catholics for his efforts in

00:33:03.940 education, for ensuring access to resources, for improving all sorts of the aspects of the lives

00:33:12.900 of people in his parish, both indigenous and non-indigenous. I think there is some confusion

00:33:19.300 out there with some of the other more nefarious examples in Catholic history. And I think, 0.82

00:33:28.020 for example, of Bishop O'Connor, whose own record is really very dark and tarnished.

00:33:36.500 And it's a very, very bad aspect of that history. And I hope that people don't

00:33:46.100 get that confused because they're not the same person at all.

00:33:50.740 And, you know, there's been issues about that. But anyway, I hope that's a bit of a picture about,

00:33:56.740 about some perceptions I've had about that aspect of the history.

00:34:01.540 I don't know.

00:34:02.160 You want to talk about firearms rights and C-10 and all that stuff too, Nathan?

00:34:07.420 We can get into some of that.

00:34:12.480 Yep.

00:34:14.060 Yep.

00:34:14.620 No, that would be great.

00:34:15.780 That would be great.

00:34:16.400 Let's start with the fact that we do have C-10 on the books now

00:34:20.840 and what that might mean when it comes to even shows like this,

00:34:24.580 let alone other things on social media.

00:34:26.740 has c10 gone through the senate yet and had royal assent i don't think it has so it's it's not really

00:34:34.260 it's not the law of the land yet it's and i if if the government is is uh uh you know if they if

00:34:41.700 they adjourn for the summer and then we have an election then it's not going to be passed

00:34:45.380 finally because it does it does if it goes through commons that's one thing but it does

00:34:49.300 actually have to have a process to go through and that includes the senate and then royal

00:34:53.540 of dissent before a bill becomes law.

00:34:57.060 So there may still be a hope,

00:34:59.380 even if it's a forlorn hope,

00:35:00.820 to use a historical allusion to my background

00:35:03.320 in siege warfare.

00:35:10.440 Very good.

00:35:11.500 I think that when it comes to the upcoming federal election,

00:35:16.140 it clearly is happening.

00:35:17.820 I have it through, speaking of Roman Catholics,

00:35:21.320 It is a certain space that the church has access to and can rent to people that will be utilized by our federal government.

00:35:31.360 So they have been notified that there will be an occupation.

00:35:35.280 So obviously a federal election is ensuing.

00:35:38.280 Where to from here?

00:35:39.660 What's going to happen in this fall election?

00:35:43.240 Well, this fall election is going to be a very interesting one.

00:35:46.360 I said that about every election I've ever heard coming down the pipe.

00:35:49.120 I mean, as you know, I'm very interested in the firearms rights aspect of this.

00:35:54.220 And our association, the National Firearms Association, has been very busy in carrying out lobbying activities.

00:36:03.160 We've been very, very busy with making sure our message is heard both on international as well as domestic forums.

00:36:11.420 We've made presentations and representations to the United Nations on the Arms Trade Treaty and the Program of Action on Small Arms and Light Weapons.

00:36:18.100 And we're also continuing to inform and persuade members of parliament, members of the Senate, and political staffers as to the merits of our particular positions.

00:36:29.300 So we're working hard to make sure we're ready.

00:36:33.620 And one of the things we're doing in that regard is we are once again registering as a third party

00:36:39.200 and we're beginning a major pre-writ effort to inform and persuade people

00:36:48.000 with regards to the merits of making sure that this particular government gets chucked out.

00:36:54.460 And there are lots of people out there who are angry at this government.

00:36:57.720 I think that some focus on that would be helpful.

00:37:01.520 But the problem is for the opposition is that there is a very large divergence of opinion about what the best alternatives are to that government.

00:37:11.960 There are people who are angry at the Conservatives for various reasons.

00:37:16.200 There are people who regard groups like the NDP as unacceptable or the Bloc Québécois as unacceptable.

00:37:23.860 You have the smaller, though aggressive groups like the PPC out there.

00:37:31.700 The Green Party has got some issues going on with itself.

00:37:36.500 And the advantage Trudeau has is he at least seems to have a relatively cohesive, although I don't like it very much, but they have a fairly cohesive group behind them.

00:37:50.140 And it does not bode well if you're going to attack that.

00:37:53.860 So being unified in attack of the Liberals in order to ensure their defeat in this election

00:38:01.380 is going to be critical and you have to get behind one and push for that victory and then work to

00:38:07.620 make sure that that victor is supportive of your particular agenda. And I know social

00:38:12.500 conservatives right now are very angry with their options. I know that firearms owners are very

00:38:18.900 concerned about their options. I know that fiscal conservatives are pulling their hair out 0.91

00:38:23.140 because they're seeing money spending processes that are going to only lead to economic disaster.

00:38:30.980 It's a tough time. It's a tough, tough time. I like Pamela Jones-Kenney's comment.

00:38:37.460 I think one of our biggest problems is our mainstream media being biased.

00:38:40.820 Well, I think our biggest problem is our mainstream media seems to be bought and paid for.

00:38:46.340 That's a significant problem. It's why groups like the Western Standard are able to

00:38:50.340 and work hard to get their message out in an alternative format, as they have.

00:39:03.220 And, of course, we appreciate that compliment.

00:39:06.180 It is an ongoing debate as to what will happen in that narrative in that upcoming federal election.

00:39:13.780 A lot of people would like those policies to be about real brick and mortar issues.

00:39:20.340 people are feeling a lot of pains for the pandemic people are feeling very worried about inflation

00:39:24.420 the cost of housing in this country has become ridiculous for things that are not they can't be

00:39:30.100 what they're valued at it's impossible it's not possible for houses to be worth that much that

00:39:34.100 were constructed long ago out of materials that are inferior to today's materials so the question

00:39:40.100 becomes very quickly as we look at poverty as we look at affordability as we look at the economy

00:39:45.380 who is going to chart a course for that or are we going to get stuck with another kind of

00:39:48.980 political correctness campaign on either side of the aisle conservative or liberal

00:39:53.620 and the real issues aren't going to get addressed well i think what you're going to end up seeing

00:39:58.720 is that we're going to have runaway inflation at some point and we cannot carry a national debt

00:40:05.460 the size that we are carrying based upon the deficits we are occurring every year

00:40:10.820 and the spending of this current government has gotten to such a level that it is simply

00:40:16.780 not sustainable. At the same time, we're crying for various social programs to be well-funded

00:40:23.040 and looked after. We are far beyond the capacity of this country to pay for those programs.

00:40:30.140 And that is the rare of the rubber is going to hit the road, so to speak, and we are going to

00:40:35.620 have an economic collapse. That is what's going to happen. And how that economic collapse looks

00:40:42.600 is going to be highly dependent on government,

00:40:45.300 it's going to be highly dependent on the private sector,

00:40:47.560 and it's going to be dependent on the willingness of Canadians

00:40:51.320 and others around the world, frankly,

00:40:54.120 to step up, work hard, and make the changes that are going to be necessary

00:40:57.820 and the sacrifices that are going to be necessary

00:41:00.060 in order to get through this.

00:41:02.380 The destruction of the economy through this particular COVID-19 pandemic

00:41:07.560 is something that, in many respects, in my view,

00:41:10.940 is probably not necessary.

00:41:12.600 And it is leading to a terrible, terrible circumstance for very, very many people.

00:41:21.520 And that needs to be dealt with in a dramatic way soon, sooner rather than later.

00:41:34.820 The cost has been exorbitant.

00:41:36.760 Perhaps one of the best examples of the cost being exorbitant was the price of lumber,

00:41:40.580 which is supposedly falling now but uh you know and maybe that's good for the local economy to a

00:41:46.020 point because in my own situation it literally became cheaper to hire a local miller than it

00:41:51.620 did to go buy a lift of lumber from the yard well yes and i mean you you spoke earlier about the

00:41:58.980 high cost of housing and it being unrealistically high and out of the reach of many people and what

00:42:03.780 you're seeing is this this migration of people from the urban centers to smaller centers where

00:42:09.460 housing is more affordable. Ironically, people are moving to places where there have been mill 0.91

00:42:14.260 shutdowns and closures because they found they can work from home in an electronic era,

00:42:19.780 and they don't need to be living in an expensive high-rise in Vancouver. They can easily move to

00:42:26.660 an outlying area, have a relatively high standard of living, and live in something that's more

00:42:32.420 affordable and even that's out of reach to many canadians

00:42:43.620 indeed it is indeed it is as we kind of uh conclude here and and look look at where things

00:42:49.700 might go from there what do you have any projections for the numbers that you think

00:42:53.940 will be in the returns do you have any uh upsets that you think might happen say in eastern canada

00:42:59.680 Maybe there'll be some upsets for the Liberals.

00:43:02.240 What's going to happen here coming down the pipe in the fall?

00:43:05.980 Well, historians are very poor at predicting the past,

00:43:09.380 and I'd hate to get into a concept of predicting the future,

00:43:12.120 especially in an election.

00:43:13.900 But there are paths to victory, for example,

00:43:18.000 for the Conservative Party of Canada,

00:43:19.640 and those paths include making gains in Quebec

00:43:22.140 at the expense of Liberals.

00:43:24.020 That path includes a need for that party to look very closely at marginal ridings and do better in those marginal ridings.

00:43:36.200 There's something like 30 ridings where the percentages are very, very close.

00:43:40.580 And if there is a surge of support for conservatives in those ridings, they can flip.

00:43:45.380 So the wild cards in this are what happens with the Bloc in Quebec and what happens with the PPC in some of these marginal ridings.

00:43:55.320 Because what did happen in the last federal election is the PPC managed to garner enough votes, which very likely would have gone to conservative candidates.

00:44:06.060 Not in all cases, that's for sure. But enough would have gone probably to conservative supporters in order to swing that vote.

00:44:15.380 The big danger for the Conservatives is that people stay home.

00:44:20.180 And I think that that is going to be their biggest challenge, to get out the vote,

00:44:24.900 because when they have been perceived, whether rightly or wrongly, as engaging in politics,

00:44:31.380 which are alienating some of the so-called solid elements of their base, that tends to mean people

00:44:38.340 stay home. And we saw that in the Kim Campbell election where Conservative voters stayed home

00:44:42.820 in droves back in 92 or so. And we've seen it in other examples in elections where voters for

00:44:51.700 particular parties felt they had nothing to vote for because voting against something is not

00:44:57.060 sufficient. You have to have something to support in order to make sure you're going to make that

00:45:02.740 gain

00:45:03.060 oh it makes sense it makes sense well as a place to start then maybe maybe what will need to happen

00:45:18.220 is we'll have to see some clear uh policy ideas out of erin o'toole and his and his gang over

00:45:24.080 there in ottawa i'm hopeful i i want i want the uh the federal conservatives to make gains and

00:45:32.740 federal liberals behind the eight ball but again it does it seems like there's some stumbling some

00:45:38.240 fumbling and a disconnect with the base what what do you think's driving that why why does it seem

00:45:42.700 like we're we might be on to our third or fourth federal conservative leader in as many years almost

00:45:48.600 well they can the liberals went through a similar process to try to find someone who could win

00:45:54.340 elections and they found that with uh trudeau the second although that it's a mystery to me as well

00:46:00.620 is to many others is how this particular individual is able to garner the support that he apparently

00:46:05.660 has in the last couple of elections. It astounds me. But in terms of the challenges for the

00:46:12.220 Conservatives, again, it's about making sure that they don't alienate so much of their base.

00:46:18.700 The social Conservatives have been treated badly by politics generally in Canada.

00:46:26.540 they're a significant force. And I would argue that without their social conservative base,

00:46:31.740 the Conservatives can't win. I don't believe that appealing to people who have no intention

00:46:37.420 of voting Conservatives and will not vote Conservatives is going to garner much support

00:46:42.380 at all. I don't think that's going to happen. I think that demographic is not inclined to the

00:46:51.580 with a broad spectrum of conservative policies

00:46:53.820 and shifting the conservatives to the left

00:46:56.000 is merely gonna alienate the traditional conservative base

00:47:00.640 and make those people stay home.

00:47:02.340 So if I was going to be talking to Aaron

00:47:05.360 and I've met Aaron O'Toole and I like him,

00:47:07.140 he's a pretty solid guy,

00:47:09.920 but I think he's been getting some bad advice

00:47:11.660 and I think he needs to start looking

00:47:14.280 at that advice very carefully

00:47:16.440 and making sure that the advice he's getting

00:47:18.420 is the kind of advice that is going to solidify

00:47:21.580 and grow his base rather than alienate it.

00:47:32.060 And perhaps that's another side of this question

00:47:35.020 when it comes to even,

00:47:38.560 as Damien has put right here,

00:47:40.640 half of us don't vote, correct?

00:47:42.220 Can the CPC focus there?

00:47:44.260 This is an old problem,

00:47:45.840 the idea of motivating anybody to get out and vote.

00:47:48.140 You're supposed to motivate your base.

00:47:49.400 That's the old electoral problem.

00:47:51.580 is there a way to expand your base?

00:47:54.220 I mean, in some of the upsets we've seen in Brexit and Trump,

00:47:59.140 didn't they get people out to vote who hadn't voted in years?

00:48:02.260 Isn't that why the tide turned?

00:48:03.880 Can the CPC do the same?

00:48:05.600 Well, the CPC very well could do the same,

00:48:07.800 but I think they have to understand just how angry it is out there.

00:48:13.600 I've talked to a lot of people.

00:48:15.500 I talk about politics all the time.

00:48:17.520 I've talked to people who are angry at me.

00:48:19.400 I've talked to people who agree with me.

00:48:20.960 And I find that all of it makes me learn a little something.

00:48:24.120 And I believe that there are an awful lot of people out there who would stand up and vote for clearly articulated positions that may not appear to be popular, but would very much appeal to a broader unwashed who have not voted in a while, who would if they thought that they were being given some strong options for leadership, who would get out there and sort out some of the challenges we're seeing in our society.

00:48:49.660 some of which we talked about earlier.

00:48:52.100 And I mean, from my perspective in the National Firearms Association,

00:48:56.100 I know there are an awful lot of gun owners out there

00:48:58.200 who are not happy with any of the major parties

00:49:00.520 in the terms of their firearms policies

00:49:02.320 because we want to see fundamental repeal of the Firearms Act

00:49:06.320 and we want to see a getting away from this mistreatment of firearms owners

00:49:12.640 and this assumption of guilt that is put on them right from the basis.

00:49:16.260 The whole licensing scheme, registration of firearms,

00:49:19.120 None of that has anything to do with preventing bad people from making bad choices.

00:49:23.960 And we need to get back to a regime where we are able to trust the greater mass of the people to do the right thing most of the time.

00:49:39.540 I completely agree.

00:49:41.040 And that's probably as good a place as any to kind of conclude that discussion.

00:49:45.520 I'm very thankful for your time here today, Sheldon.

00:49:48.220 appreciate you coming on to the show and uh just yeah thank you so much for your fight on behalf

00:49:53.260 of firearms owners and helping us stay on the straight and narrow when it comes to history

00:49:57.260 it's a complicated thing and we need to treat it with respect well thank you very much nathan i'm

00:50:01.820 always glad to be here and uh and i'll i'm sure i'll enjoy the rest of your program and thanks

00:50:08.060 very much to everyone who's listening in and participating it's really everybody out there

00:50:13.580 that makes a difference and making alternative media successful all the best thanks sheldon

00:50:24.700 absolutely absolutely yeah there it is sheldon to sheldon

00:50:32.060 well i mean we're very thankful to have uh sheldon on uh earlier of course sheldon is the president

00:50:37.900 of the National Firearms Association and an historian, the instructor for local history

00:50:43.060 as well as BC and Canadian history here at the College of New Caledonia in, yeah, Sheldon

00:50:51.000 going on for great name, College of New Caledonia here in Prince George.

00:50:55.140 So we will get Sheldon back on.

00:51:00.660 Don't you worry there, Pamela.

00:51:01.820 That will happen.

00:51:02.560 i apologize uh just forthwith here that there appears to be a delay when it comes to the

00:51:08.800 internet and that's that's life there's not a lot we can do about that except for call somebody down

00:51:13.260 at the local internet shop and tell them to increase our bandwidth we are hard-lined if

00:51:18.540 you're wondering we're hard-lined we're not wi-fi'd uh but even so with the hard line it

00:51:23.120 doesn't appear that things are going very well so that's fine we'll uh we'll we'll see how we go

00:51:28.400 from here but at least for our listenership and if you just have this playing on the background

00:51:33.200 while you do stuff in your kitchen you should be good to go so we'll carry on here uh we were going

00:51:39.200 to talk about a few different things today i've got a whole host of uh of different um different

00:51:46.160 items to bring up uh for for discussion talking with uh well my producer had brought up a whole

00:51:54.880 bunch of articles to talk about uh believe canadians believe they live in a racist country

00:52:01.120 fires that destroyed catholic church and two bc communities are deemed suspicious

00:52:05.340 uh erin o'toole is this you know that sort of thing and uh of course you've got something from

00:52:13.820 the epic times over here and then finally um the removal of john a's statue so uh it will actually

00:52:22.920 start with this because i think it's the easiest place to start uh which is uh with our favorite

00:52:28.200 john john uh john robson though apparently the epic times is being a bit of a bit of a time with

00:52:35.960 that stuff so we'll uh we'll start over here then with what what's going on with the bc liberal

00:52:41.600 candidate so right now we're going to do some screen sharing just give me a second here share

00:52:46.800 screen window chrome tab and we're going to start with our bc liberal candidate ellis ross so here

00:52:56.800 we are uh talking about of course ellis ross who we've had on the program a couple of times and

00:53:01.440 we're talking specifically right here about what just happened down south in the burning of the

00:53:07.440 churches uh in southern bc and so we have through mr ross uh some some comments about what happened

00:53:15.600 it is senseless violence and I agree with that

00:53:17.840 I'm not saying that there wasn't a reason to be angry

00:53:20.000 I'm not saying that it couldn't cause people

00:53:21.880 to be very very upset of the discovery

00:53:23.920 in Kamloops but fundamentally

00:53:26.080 people's property is their property 0.99

00:53:27.940 and when you start destroying people's property

00:53:29.780 you start courting

00:53:31.920 a response in kind

00:53:33.900 and that turns into vigilantism

00:53:35.920 so we have to be very careful about that

00:53:37.620 so Ellis Ross, a BC

00:53:39.420 Liberal leadership candidate and current MLA

00:53:41.740 for the Northwest

00:53:42.500 so that's for Skeena

00:53:44.620 spoke out today in the wake

00:53:46.980 of two Catholic churches in the Okanagan

00:53:48.920 being burnt to the ground

00:53:50.040 he condemns the census acts

00:53:53.080 of violence and he continued

00:53:54.920 to say I wholly condemn

00:53:56.860 the census acts of violence in this difficult

00:53:58.980 time British Columbians Canadians must remain calm 0.93

00:54:01.180 it goes out to everyone who has been

00:54:03.020 impacted by the census act

00:54:04.360 this is not the time for more old fashioned politics

00:54:07.080 that pits British Columbians against each other

00:54:08.700 the divisive approach to politics has held our province

00:54:10.860 back for far too long

00:54:12.020 The aftermath of the terrible discovery in Kamloops, my heart has been filled with hope watching Indigenous and non-Indigenous Canadians come together to mourn the victims of residential schools.

00:54:21.500 We must ensure future generations of Canadians, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, won't be held back by the divisions of the past.

00:54:28.560 So I personally think those are some really solid comments.

00:54:32.840 And we do need to be honest about what's happening in these issues.

00:54:38.240 and what happened down south

00:54:41.040 I mean if we're going to, maybe I should just start with that part

00:54:43.500 is that essentially, of course

00:54:46.640 essentially, what happened down south

00:54:49.580 was inexcusable

00:54:52.620 it was inconceivable

00:54:55.100 I can't imagine doing that to another person's property

00:54:59.820 or to somebody else, especially somebody's place of worship

00:55:02.080 because those churches were still being used

00:55:03.920 one of them I believe a little bit more rarely than the other

00:55:07.040 i'll just grab this guy so this is from the national post

00:55:13.380 so that's deemed suspicious a first nations chief in southern british columbia says there

00:55:23.040 are mixed feelings in his community after a catholic church burned uh burned to the ground

00:55:28.600 in an overnight fire one of two catholic churches in the area that were destroyed in places that

00:55:32.400 police considered uh suspicious so that's uh chief great great gabriel uh usually a pretty

00:55:38.080 even-handed uh guy um there's a lot of danger and hurt in the community so less after less than two

00:55:44.340 hours after the patrol officer found it engulfed in flames fires uh come less than a month after

00:55:50.240 the of course the discovery of the 215 remains camu's uh indian residential school finally of

00:55:57.160 course uh we rushed down to the church site in time ago it was already gone it was a very old

00:56:02.400 church didn't take much time for it to burn down it was built in 1912 that one the saint gregory

00:56:07.840 church in the soy's and finally um you know there was a reverend who got a little comment in there

00:56:16.180 uh i would like to have an open mind a lot of the investigation play its way out i mean there's no

00:56:21.300 great mystery what happened here uh that's not a that's not a great mystery but this is

00:56:26.660 i wanted to highlight some of these things because

00:56:32.900 i i just wrote a column on this question because i mean i'm a status first nation guy

00:56:37.460 and uh it's it's one of those kind of big difficulties for for somebody like myself it

00:56:43.700 we clearly had a we clearly had some issues uh when it came to well not just a little bit but

00:56:52.340 when it came to uh the interactions between first nations and what happened in residential school

00:56:57.920 there's no question that there were some very difficult moments there and and abusive and evil

00:57:02.240 moments but at the same time as i was discussing with sheldon earlier there there comes a moment

00:57:09.020 where we must indeed let the past be the past

00:57:12.320 and warts and all, bad things happen,

00:57:14.880 but what are we going to do in the present?

00:57:16.720 When it comes to this vigilanteism,

00:57:20.300 which is what I view it as,

00:57:21.560 destroying property for the sake of destroying property,

00:57:24.520 we're in deep trouble

00:57:26.620 because that can only escalate.

00:57:29.320 So let's kind of take a step back here

00:57:32.280 and let's talk about this from a philosophical point of view,

00:57:34.560 political philosophical point of view.

00:57:36.080 We're not going to get into the question of eternal forms

00:57:37.980 and that sort of thing,

00:57:38.660 but we're going to get into these fundamental questions around the social contract and just

00:57:42.460 the day-to-day life that you live so the entire reason why we have police is so that we don't

00:57:49.320 have vigilantism like that's where it all starts right so the reason that we don't all just

00:57:54.820 challenge each other to duels every day or when some kid you know steals a bike out of my backyard

00:58:00.600 i don't immediately go and and you know burn his house down in which case you know his dad comes

00:58:05.960 back and destroys my home and my cabin out of the lake. And then I go and destroy his entire

00:58:10.300 neighborhood. That's vigilantism, right? All it does is escalate. And so this is the reason why 0.94

00:58:16.660 we have police. We have police in order to ensure that the law and order of a place is capped.

00:58:25.260 Because if you take the law into your own hands, it's very easy to get carried away.

00:58:29.620 Who wouldn't want to visit more pain upon someone that had caused them pain? Who wouldn't want to

00:58:34.540 enforce their will and and have have the you know the the malcontents and the fiends brought to

00:58:41.760 justice that's that's just a statement of fact that's human nature so vigilantism is not a path

00:58:48.740 forward it's it's a ever lowering uh expectations and and a race to the bottom as people get more

00:58:55.660 and more violent with each other in order to stop the violence so that's that's the other irony to

00:59:00.720 it too right so that the reason people are getting more violent against one another is a kind of it's

00:59:06.940 a it's a one-up mission ship to see what amount of pain the other person will endure and if that

00:59:11.880 person finally says uncle right and says and and and and relents and submits then you have peace

00:59:18.920 again and we have to understand that this is kind of the basic principle of warfare as well right

00:59:22.660 warfare is a laboratory i believe uh victor davis hansen says and and the simple fact of the matter

00:59:28.980 is that that war is a place where two two contests or a single contest is held between two nations

00:59:36.440 or more and we see who is stronger right now we could have figured that out probably by doing the

00:59:41.240 math beforehand but instead of doing that we allow people to die and that's very sad and we shouldn't

00:59:46.200 do that but again vigilantism is not the answer violence isn't the answer that's a very dangerous

00:59:52.460 dangerous road to go and essentially the only violence that really goes anywhere is revolutionary

00:59:57.640 violence, because ultimately to win the argument, especially if you're fighting

01:00:01.180 institutions in the state, your violence basically has to carry on to the point

01:00:05.700 where you're in charge. And that's the great danger of violence as well, is it's ego.

01:00:09.240 It always is about me being in control, dominating you, and

01:00:13.220 eventually you have to submit to me. That's kind of the problem with violence.

01:00:17.300 So coming back to what's going on here with the burning of the churches down south

01:00:20.740 in the lower, not the lower mainland actually, in the southern interior

01:00:25.140 of british columbia which i believe is kamloops diocese um i wonder if the perpetrators will ever

01:00:31.940 be caught and i mean even though it's obvious that the fires were coordinated they happened

01:00:37.360 simultaneously and they happened on a day that is that is significant to indigenous people

01:00:45.740 throughout canada they could have been started by someone who's you know had nothing to do with

01:00:50.100 that let's be clear they could they could easily be a false flag operation somebody could be

01:00:55.140 basically trying to stir up resentment against First Nations people by doing this.

01:00:59.720 There's no question that we need to investigate and understand what's happening.

01:01:03.580 I think actually the reverend made a good point there.

01:01:06.160 And for those of you who don't understand the nomenclature,

01:01:10.480 so in the Catholic faith, a father is a reverend,

01:01:16.100 and then the father in charge of the fathers, the vicar general, is most reverend.

01:01:21.960 and then for a bishop it's his excellency and then for a cardinal i believe it's his eminence

01:01:27.560 and finally it's uh your holiness so those are the titles so coming back to what the reverend was

01:01:33.960 saying he he was smart to state he was going to keep an open mind because who knows who did the

01:01:41.960 deed who knows it's hard to know we're going to have to investigate uh to know who exactly

01:01:47.840 perpetrated this act because it could very easily be a false operation however operating from kind

01:01:54.520 of the general assumption that it makes sense that someone upset about the residential school

01:01:59.740 discovery was responsible for perpetrating this act of vandalism and and destruction wanted

01:02:07.460 destruction of property and indeed of holy property property that belonged to a people

01:02:14.540 for their worship. Quite the crime, you know, quite the crime. The kind of thing where if it

01:02:19.640 happened to any other kind of denomination, it would be deemed a hate crime. But because the

01:02:25.360 Catholic Church, for good or ill, is actually not identified with any one ethnicity, it is a global

01:02:30.140 church and always has been, right from its inception, you know, the moment that Christ

01:02:35.400 gave them the Holy Spirit, there isn't a way to turn that into a hate crime. You could hate the

01:02:40.240 church, I suppose, and call that a hate crime, but you can't call it a hate crime the same way

01:02:44.460 against, as you could against other faiths, because those faiths are rather ethnocentric,

01:02:50.120 and they're rather, they're rather undiverse ethnically. Homogeneous is the word I'm looking 0.51

01:02:55.720 for. Here we have Pamela weighing back into this question. The lack of history being taught plus 1.00

01:03:02.400 the media centralization of issues leads to division of vigilantism. That is, that's bang on.

01:03:07.160 I think, I think Pamela is exactly right. And that's kind of where I was going to next here. So thank you for segueing that for me, Pamela. It is indeed exactly what's going on. So if you're, if you're gaslighting people, if you're pumping people up, if you're giving people all sorts of false understandings of things, you are in deep, deep trouble, right?

01:03:28.600 So if you're sitting there and you're thinking about how the media puts things today, how much of it is based in false outrage, how much of it is about attention-grabbing and headline-grabbing, how much of it into social media spins completely out of control, and it goes both ways.

01:03:47.000 I'm not trying to say even that it's always the conspiracy theorists.

01:03:50.100 I think a lot of the state-sanctioned story and narrative is often completely, completely out of whack, completely untrue.

01:04:01.580 And we need to be vigilant.

01:04:02.920 I completely agree with that.

01:04:04.100 We need to be vigilant.

01:04:05.480 And we can't allow, state media or not, or somebody blogging from their basement or not, we can't allow that to dictate the narrative.

01:04:16.240 We must always search for evidence. We must always look for the truth. And then we must follow the truth because the truth is the only way to an ordered liberty and a better world for all.

01:04:25.240 So coming back to this question of what's going on with the churches as well as the residential school, I think it's a hard topic to address because at a fundamental level, I must admit that I have very little in common with my brothers and sisters who are also status Indians or non-status or Métis or Inuit, etc.

01:04:55.240 passing and not passing i had never heard i make a small side here i'd never heard the term passing

01:05:02.360 used in canada until i went to manitoba uh i was working in manitoba last year i know anybody's

01:05:09.560 been watching this show pretty consistently has heard that before mentioned probably about once

01:05:13.240 a week i was and i mentioned it because it was a pretty significant journey i i had to leave my

01:05:19.140 home i'd been up there once before but i had to leave my home leave my community leave my family

01:05:23.720 go up into the great white north and and basically for six months straight because i didn't leave i

01:05:30.220 didn't leave i didn't go back to thompson either i lived in churchill for six months straight

01:05:34.100 and uh i just i just fought my corner and did my best and i got to see some really cool sites and

01:05:41.740 i got to be a part of some really cool projects but it is a long way from the rest of civilization

01:05:45.980 and it was a that was that was an experience um very formative but while i was in manitoba

01:05:53.020 One of the words that I had never really encountered before in British Columbia was was the word passing.

01:05:58.840 So passing as so passing is white, passing is black, passing is something.

01:06:03.800 So usually that's used to refer to somebody passing for the majority population or a non-ethnic.

01:06:11.760 I guess it could be used in another way because because of my complexion.

01:06:16.320 So my background is both both First Nations as well as as probably some Mediterranean from from my father's side.

01:06:22.860 I was adopted and my mother, my father were not the most stable relationship to put that

01:06:27.760 as politely as possible. Ergo, ipso facto, who knows, who knows what's up with my dad these days,

01:06:35.160 biological dad, I mean, I've never met my biological mother. But the point that I'm

01:06:39.100 trying to drive home here is that I could also pass for many things. There are some people who

01:06:44.060 think that I'm ethnically white, that just a darker, darker colored white person that has 0.99

01:06:51.280 happened part mostly that's because of the way i talk i don't talk with any kind of ethnic accent

01:06:56.880 except for being from northern canada because there are times where i kind of growl my g's kind

01:07:01.380 of change and and i i say things just different i don't say minutes to finance like i'm on cbc

01:07:06.520 because i'm not on cbc and then and then i mean i've been accused of being all sorts of things

01:07:11.760 well accused i've i've i've been approached by many different people in their native tongue

01:07:15.740 trying to talk to me as if I belong to their people which I don't and so so passing can have 0.81

01:07:22.200 a positive aspect as well but while I was in Manitoba I just remember hearing it and it kind

01:07:27.640 of sounded like in Manitoba this was a this was a difficult thing that that there was still so

01:07:34.860 much tension between the aboriginal population and the non-aboriginal population that that

01:07:42.840 within their circles there really were people having to basically declare whether or not they

01:07:48.260 looked like and we're going to use this word because again it's on the status card and when

01:07:52.360 you change the status card i'll change the word an indian right so there's people who looked like

01:07:57.380 indians and there are people who didn't right and and they needed to make a distinction about that

01:08:02.340 whereas you know in bc i don't think we make as much distinction about that we in bc i think there

01:08:07.900 is just so much mix between uh different ethnicities that there are people i've met people

01:08:13.780 right you know they're blonde haired and they're blue eyed but they are status uh a status aboriginal 0.98

01:08:18.660 in this country why because because they have the blood and that's all that matters and it's

01:08:24.320 very interesting that that's how easy it is so in in manitoba it it seemed a bit more tensionist

01:08:30.680 to put it politely i'm not trying to throw manitoba on the bus it just that's definitely

01:08:34.820 seemed like unlike British Columbia, it was just a bit more, it was still stuck in a different

01:08:41.140 time, a little bit less, a little bit less along the way as we are today here in British Columbia

01:08:47.300 when it came to this question of Aboriginal versus non-Aboriginal. But now, of course, 0.90

01:08:53.380 we've made this discovery in BC. So apparently BC isn't that advanced. I mean, BC is having

01:08:58.540 literal vigilantism, people literally going into the night and burning down places of worship

01:09:06.980 in order to represent their anger towards the Catholic Church and what transpired

01:09:11.900 at the Kamloops Indian Residential School. And there's a piece of me that can empathize with that

01:09:19.460 in a purely your pain is understandable and your reaction makes sense. I'm glad that nobody got

01:09:28.160 murdered i'm glad that nobody got hurt inadvertently by this arson uh that happened but still

01:09:35.120 we really do have to ask ourselves is that the way forward uh and i'm saying this to the people

01:09:41.000 who committed this this this act this crime i'm saying it to them directly i understand it could

01:09:48.300 be a false flag operation i understand that literal race baiters could have done this in

01:09:54.420 order to try and stir up resentment between the aboriginal and non-aboriginal population anew

01:09:59.380 i'm very aware of that so besides besides the obvious assumption we're simply going to say to

01:10:06.360 whomever was was in charge here and whoever was doing this stuff you know this is literally

01:10:15.020 playing with fire um you know you're playing with fire great metaphor great pun uh because people

01:10:22.560 are fragile they're very fragile they can easily snap into violence we've all seen it happen we've

01:10:28.160 seen people at cost seen that we've seen somebody who we never even thought had that in them that

01:10:32.740 kind of temper and all of a sudden we see them come down on something because there's been a

01:10:37.200 fundamental trespass against their person their property their sense of security their sense of

01:10:41.080 safety their sense of dignity this is not new we all know that this happens go go try go scrape

01:10:47.660 somebody's car in a parking lot go scrape a little old lady's car in a parking lot and tell me 1.00

01:10:52.300 that the lady just goes like oh bless your heart dear and moves on that's not what's going to 1.00

01:10:57.240 happen you're going to get an earful and you deserve an earful you've made a terrible mistake

01:11:01.880 what are we going on about what we're focusing on here is that if you if you the person who burned

01:11:09.060 down this church is listening right now you need to understand you're playing a very dangerous game

01:11:12.600 and you're playing a dangerous game precisely because not just vigilanteism but deeper than

01:11:17.300 that deeper than that there is a fundamental a fundamental change of the world one little stone

01:11:26.840 into a pool creates ripples and i i think that's exactly what's going on here some burned down

01:11:34.380 churches that that that sounds like nothing to some people sounds like nothing but it means

01:11:41.660 something to religious people and it means something even more acutely to religious people

01:11:45.840 in those neighborhoods, including, for that matter, even non-religious people, even people

01:11:51.280 perhaps who had suffered at the hands of the church with regards to the residential school

01:11:57.100 system. But, and I mean, somebody who did indirectly was Ellis Ross, who was just reading

01:12:02.360 his piece there. You cannot fix what happened in the past by burning down the present. It can't be

01:12:09.960 done. And the danger is that now you're creating a new offense in the present, a new tension,

01:12:14.600 a new a new spark for violence and you are in serious danger of of pushing that snowball down

01:12:27.740 a hill and having that you know snowball become a a big big base of a of a snowman sort of size

01:12:34.460 snowball and turn finally into like you know the indiana jones gigantic boulder coming down to

01:12:39.700 crush somebody you cannot you cannot conceive of just how dangerous a game you're playing

01:12:46.260 when you light those churches on fire you've made a fundamental trespass a fundamental mistake

01:12:51.380 and there will be consequences there will be a full investigation but also especially if somebody

01:12:56.760 really does bump into somebody else or if there are more attacks planned on churches i i can tell

01:13:03.100 you there's going to be people watching those churches i can tell you they're going to be

01:13:06.000 people that are going to be ready and the next time around it might turn into a bit of a physical

01:13:10.520 altercation and and that's the danger that's the danger vigilantism vandalism vengeance it all

01:13:18.080 comes to the same violence and violence is not the answer because only violence can solve violence

01:13:26.000 and so it has to escalate to a point where somebody chooses to say you know what this is too painful

01:13:30.920 for me i submit and i surrender and and what kind of reconciliation is that that's not reconciliation

01:13:37.560 that's wrong we're going to pivot now a little bit to uh the questions that are being

01:13:44.760 that are being kind of asked a few different things so one of the places where we're having

01:13:50.760 some interesting discussion of course and unfortunately we can't get into the epic times

01:13:55.400 right now um or maybe we can let's just see here maybe they'll give me a way in

01:14:04.040 uh they won't that's okay but um no producer is going to rescue us so we'll just ramble here for

01:14:15.020 a little while the producer rescues us but ultimately ultimately the problem becomes that

01:14:21.840 As we look at that situation down south when it came to the churches, the deeper issue at the moment is, of course, also the question of what we're going to do with these statues.

01:14:34.640 You cannot build a world where statues are being removed all over the place.

01:14:43.220 Now, statues don't live forever.

01:14:45.320 Let's be clear about that.

01:14:46.420 And that's something that Stuart Parker will tell us a little bit more about on Thursday.

01:14:49.380 And he told us a little about this last Thursday. Statues don't last forever. And it is true that depending on who's in charge, statues do move. But then that actually creates a situation where do we want society to move in the way that it's moving?

01:15:07.940 so if the only reason why uh a statue would be changed or moved or removed or its head changed

01:15:15.320 literally there were screw top heads at one point i think stewart explained that to me once back in

01:15:19.640 the day it was too expensive to be building statues all the time so what you did was you

01:15:23.160 just removed the emperor's head and put the new emperor's head on because of course you're only

01:15:28.480 i mean that was the only person you needed to be on the statue so you didn't have to make a

01:15:32.480 whole statue every time that's very interesting i didn't know that until stewart told me that

01:15:36.240 And I think that we need to be careful about this, that history does change. Things are not going to stay the same forever.

01:15:46.140 If there is a valid criticism, actually, of the boomers, it is that they're trying to keep us in the revolutionary 60s, the kind of bizarre moments of the 70s, both the Jesus movements and the non-Jesus movements, and then the kind of reconciliation and climax that was the 80s. 0.52

01:16:06.060 it depends on what day of the week it is

01:16:09.320 but either we're still in the 60s, the 70s

01:16:11.400 or the 80s

01:16:12.120 and

01:16:12.920 if there was anything that could kind of be

01:16:17.220 said to the boomers on this 0.73

01:16:19.000 well, you know what, some of us would like

01:16:21.180 to not be in the 60s, 70s

01:16:23.460 and 80s anymore, some of us would like to move

01:16:25.260 on and build a different

01:16:27.240 world, but until we get there

01:16:29.220 we're

01:16:30.120 a long way from home

01:16:32.700 and you can't have things stay the same

01:16:35.420 forever it's not possible and so genuinely genuinely we need to be clear about about the

01:16:43.600 fact that history does change not in its written form or in the the facts that happened in the past

01:16:49.980 but our interpretation of it does change and what is historically relevant today is not the same

01:16:55.720 thing as was historically relevant yesterday and and it's that old problem right do you do you keep

01:17:01.480 things around just for the sake of keeping them or do you try and make new memories new meaningful

01:17:06.960 things that that help you carry forward we've got another comment here from sheldon i'm going to just

01:17:12.060 put that up there unfortunately i believe it was perpetrated by humans not involved with either

01:17:17.940 side of the issue that's actually a good point sheldon it's very possible that there are just

01:17:22.280 some people taking advantage of the chaos and playing around with it so we're going to go to

01:17:27.720 our sharing screen here and we're going to line up cancelling candidate part of the end somewhere

01:17:38.200 ugly i think is what i'm looking for yep there we go and we've got our our friend dr john robson

01:17:45.600 of course famous famously commented in the post for years still still doing that a smart guy kind

01:17:52.720 of our token paleocon in canada if you know what that means old school conservative somebody who

01:17:57.140 hasn't uh compromised so uh let's let's get into this canceling canada day part of a movement that

01:18:03.480 will end somewhere ugly by john robson dr john robson i believe professor anyways it seems cancel

01:18:11.520 cultures reach canada literally across the nation politicians are canceling canada day because we

01:18:16.840 are a genocidal disgrace to which i'm obliged to say be careful what you wish for canada is not

01:18:23.060 perfect how could it be when it is full of human beings i don't think anyone doesn't wish parts of

01:18:28.020 our history were different definitely including aboriginal policy but many underestimate the

01:18:32.420 difficulty of doing better blithely assuming the past of which they are largely ignorant 1.00

01:18:37.140 would be a shining tale of unalloyed virtue had they only been there to advise idiotic monsters 1.00

01:18:42.900 like churchill mcdonald shakespeare king alfred and so on a potentially more challenging concept 0.99

01:18:48.580 is that a person could do bad things in some areas and hold bad beliefs legitimately subject

01:18:53.760 to historical reproach without being a bad person but if it is untrue who will forgive us our sins

01:19:00.660 today we scorn such humility instead if you object to defacing statues of sir johnny mcdonald

01:19:07.100 you're accused of racism and if you deny it it proves your guilt i hear much talk of reconciliation

01:19:11.880 but many talk of robin hood who never pulled his bow and the more statues got get pulled down the

01:19:18.080 anger the activists get the movement will end somewhere ugly you know mark mark milk his book

01:19:27.420 the victim cult warns of how the culture blame hurts everyone and wrecks civilizations and we're

01:19:32.460 about there aren't we a politician or cultural icon asked for a rousing candidate speech could

01:19:38.480 offer any heartfelt and convincing reason why this dominion should not crumble into dust

01:19:42.440 and of course then he goes on to talk a little bit about what happened to uh canada uh back with

01:19:50.380 back in the 1960s um which which is important we can we can we'll we'll touch back on that in a

01:19:57.860 moment um and and just think about all of that for a little while so let's let's start with the

01:20:06.800 obvious uh cancel culture is here canada is suffering from cancel culture and it's a little

01:20:12.480 bit odd because canada was never really a place that had that kind of thing going on um we've

01:20:19.060 been a pretty free and democratic society for a very long time uh and quite frankly we just didn't

01:20:25.040 have a state large enough or or a and a culture kind of broadly enough to kind of enforce those

01:20:30.540 rules all the time and there's still pockets of where it doesn't exist if you go into the north

01:20:34.840 And this is why people are moving to the north in droves.

01:20:39.460 They really are.

01:20:40.820 You've got to go look this up.

01:20:42.460 But you'll find that a particular demographic of people are leaving even middle Canada or mid-Canada,

01:20:51.020 which is kind of the line that's drawn here in the west with the Highway 16 corridor.

01:20:57.320 And I guess there'd be, again, off-the-beaten-trail places into northern Ontario and northern Quebec

01:21:03.520 and even some parts of the Maritimes that are not mainstream Canada

01:21:07.360 or not Main Street Canada, they're not Big Canada,

01:21:09.740 they're not St. John's, they're not Quebec City,

01:21:11.800 they're not, you know, Moncton or Prince George even

01:21:15.960 or Edmonton or Cochrane, right?

01:21:18.780 That's not where they are.

01:21:20.240 They're into the boonies now.

01:21:22.500 They want to go into the Northwest Territories.

01:21:24.400 They want to go into the Yukon.

01:21:26.000 The pay is good because nobody else wants to work up there

01:21:29.260 and the freedom's incredible.

01:21:30.880 You know, when I visited the Yukon some years ago, I seriously considered staying there permanently.

01:21:36.680 It was it is an absolutely gorgeous place and it is nonstop wilderness and freedom.

01:21:42.900 And they just don't have the enforcement. They don't have the people to enforce any rules.

01:21:46.660 That doesn't mean you should abuse that, but it just you just don't feel like there's someone looking over your shoulder all the time.

01:21:51.860 It's beautiful. Anyways, what are we going on about?

01:21:54.560 We're talking about the fact that Canada was never really a big state entity.

01:22:00.620 It costs too much money to run a big state in a country this vast.

01:22:04.500 This country is huge.

01:22:05.780 This country is the second largest country in the world.

01:22:08.520 Policing people and running a big state isn't really possible.

01:22:11.980 The smart money is to just police the more populated areas and make more enforcement in those areas.

01:22:17.220 And indeed, that's what goes on.

01:22:20.540 However, you can't have cancel culture without the massive media we have right now,

01:22:27.420 particularly when it comes to social media as well as both a culture and a class of people but also

01:22:32.660 a kind of a kind of big state reality where like no you really could get fired by this

01:22:37.800 senseless entity that you work for called the state or you could be sanctioned by them so you

01:22:43.160 might not have anything to do with the state except for paying your taxes but that doesn't matter

01:22:47.080 they can come after you they can charge you with something that's supposedly a hate crime it was

01:22:52.900 just something you said it didn't hurt anyone you never caused any violence you certainly didn't

01:22:57.100 burned down a church and all of a sudden you've been rounded up and taken into the the hate

01:23:01.260 training seminar how to not hate anymore how to be tolerant where you're told basically all your 0.99

01:23:06.100 beliefs are stupid even if your beliefs have nothing to do with hate so this is not a new 0.82

01:23:10.820 problem this has been around for a while but but in canada it's a bit weird because we just never 1.00

01:23:15.340 had we never had the puritanical culture of the united states and we never had a big enough

01:23:19.820 government to really enforce these rules this is pretty sick it takes a lot of money to do this

01:23:25.040 stuff it's not cheap but i think uh dr robson's getting into that a little bit so i'm gonna flip

01:23:31.100 back to what he's saying there and we'll talk about it so the rock goes back to at least the

01:23:35.240 1960s when a prime minister named trudeau thought canada would be great if only it just it was

01:23:40.800 changed completely from its current narrow-minded mess to a just society remade in his bilingual 0.68

01:23:46.060 bicultural big government libertine hip image an oddly derivative of u.s president lyndon johnson's

01:23:52.460 great society, just as some now want us to celebrate Juneteenth. That's funny. I'm pretty 0.99

01:23:59.540 sure Juneteenth is a celebration of the release of slaves due to the Emancipation Proclamation

01:24:06.760 during the American Civil War by, of course, Abraham Lincoln himself, a president whom I

01:24:12.640 respect a great deal, not without caveat, not without criticism, but a president whom I respect

01:24:18.720 who did make some very important moves for the United States, obviously,

01:24:24.540 in a very desolate time, a very desperate time.

01:24:28.280 But Juneteenth, I believe, references that.

01:24:32.400 In fact, you know what, why don't we just look that up?

01:24:34.580 We'll just take a second here, because we don't want to reference something wrong.

01:24:37.200 So Juneteenth, what is Juneteenth?

01:24:41.660 It's an American thing, so I wasn't really kind of Freedom Day and Black Independence

01:24:46.980 commemorating the emancipation of

01:24:49.560 enslaved African Americans. Okay, so 1.00

01:24:51.520 I was right. So

01:24:52.700 Juneteenth.

01:24:55.480 People want us to celebrate Juneteenth.

01:24:59.060 Canada

01:24:59.380 had, I mean

01:25:01.360 if you make it sound so

01:25:03.500 paltry and banal, it

01:25:05.400 sounds like you're dismissing the fact

01:25:07.480 that there was ever slavery in Canada.

01:25:09.360 There was slavery in Canada. It

01:25:11.300 existed. Okay, it did exist

01:25:13.560 at the very beginning of

01:25:15.540 our colonial experience. When the settlers came, when the non-Aboriginal people came and began to

01:25:23.280 settle this country, there were slaves because their cultures allowed for slaves at the time. 0.98

01:25:30.300 Now, something that we need to be clear about is that having slaves is actually extremely expensive.

01:25:38.300 And so one of the problems was in Canada, or one of the benefits of Canada being so cold and harsh,

01:25:44.380 It isn't even the Ohio Valley, not that it couldn't get cold back then in the 18th century, but it wasn't even Maine. It wasn't even New York, which gets to be deadly humid in the summer at times. Certainly Washington does, which isn't far away.

01:25:58.080 the the issue of is the issue of of canada and slavery is is a it is a very very short story

01:26:09.940 because it did not pay to have slaves in canada it didn't pay because it was so cold the environment

01:26:16.320 was so harsh and so you couldn't have massive plantations where slave labor would pay would 1.00

01:26:22.200 would pay slave labor would pay that's that is the nature of slave labor it doesn't matter what 0.99

01:26:27.180 kind of labor you have whether you're even paying the people you in order for if you have a large

01:26:31.260 workforce the large workforce which is extremely expensive to maintain regardless of whether it's

01:26:35.660 slaves or not is is that's an objective fact one of the reasons why we talk about people being

01:26:41.160 wage slaves because not only does there a huge amount of of cost put upon them in their daily

01:26:47.320 lives and and how they commute and that sort of thing that's terrible but at the same time even

01:26:52.580 with that the and the consumer economy that we've built there's still oligarchs and capitalists that 0.58

01:26:58.440 are trying to automate everything and why is that well because workforces are expensive it costs

01:27:02.660 money to have a workforce so the point is that it's expensive to keep massive amounts of people

01:27:09.040 employed or not at rest or at work it's expensive to feed them it's expensive to house them

01:27:14.040 and what happens is in canada it just wasn't practical to continue slavery it just wasn't

01:27:20.680 You couldn't make it pay, unlike Virginia, unlike Georgia, unlike Florida, unlike the Caribbean and the Southern Americas, where, again, things just grow.

01:27:29.940 You know, you plant a tomato yesterday, you get tomatoes in a week.

01:27:34.240 That's how things work there.

01:27:35.620 That's not Canada.

01:27:36.560 We all know that.

01:27:37.840 Southern Ontario has some tobacco farms and, of course, some wineries now.

01:27:41.720 And I'm sure that we have lots of migrant workers throughout, of course, British Columbia and everything else.

01:27:46.000 I remain convinced that migrant work is a dangerous game to play, because while we might need temporary workers, it's very dangerous that we don't allow workers to organize and have rights. That's very dangerous, and it's not fair to them. It's not fair for them to not have rights. They have rights.

01:28:05.140 It doesn't matter whether they're working for a day

01:28:06.780 or they're working for 100 years, they have rights.

01:28:09.920 And they should find, there should be an equitable way

01:28:13.140 of ensuring that their rights are protected.

01:28:15.460 So that's just my two cents on that.

01:28:17.440 I'm not interested in having, you know,

01:28:20.640 in having a slave state in Canada today by another name.

01:28:25.060 It's interesting that we've had some comments

01:28:26.760 on the question of slavery here.

01:28:28.620 I'm actually going to punt this from the stream for now.

01:28:31.260 Unfortunately, I believe, oh, we had that already.

01:28:33.720 sorry it is not the act but the end of the war and the end of slavery uh so let's you know

01:28:39.980 so and then pamela's telling me to listen to candace owen on juneteenth uh and he's saying

01:28:46.220 again in regards to africans in 1833 when great british britain abolished slavery that's true

01:28:51.120 daryl like you're not wrong about that you're not wrong about that but but the but i guess the point

01:28:56.940 is that there was no there as far as i know i i and again feel free to correct me on this i i but

01:29:03.440 as far as i know like slavery in canada that even remotely resembled and it didn't really resemble

01:29:09.240 but even remotely resembled the chattel slavery of the southern united states ended in canada

01:29:15.940 long before 1833 there were there was no real like indentured servants who you could call slaves

01:29:23.760 yes that existed and continued to exist after 1833 but if we're looking for a definitive

01:29:30.860 line in the sand for the kind of slavery that we we see in civil war movies and movies about

01:29:38.300 slavery in the south it that doesn't exist in canada probably by by no later than the 1800s

01:29:46.380 and even before the 1800s and into the 1800s um sorry the 1800s is the 19th century i meant the

01:29:52.420 18th century that's what i was trying to say i can't imagine even in southern ontario the most

01:29:57.340 or in some of the seigneurial lands of Quebec,

01:29:59.680 some of the most fertile lands we have,

01:30:01.340 I still can't imagine that we had any kind of thing

01:30:04.220 resembling chattel slavery, because it wouldn't pay. 0.98

01:30:06.940 It just wouldn't pay.

01:30:07.820 You couldn't grow things in winter.

01:30:09.320 It was extremely expensive.

01:30:11.040 And it was impossible.

01:30:13.560 Impossible to get that going.

01:30:17.000 So the point that we're driving home here, though,

01:30:19.720 is that the Americans have Juneteenth, kind of, as a thing.

01:30:24.940 And the joke is that now Canada wants to do what its big brother America is doing when it comes to Juneteenth.

01:30:31.840 But for what? We don't do any of that. We didn't have that legacy.

01:30:35.760 That history is not Canada's legacy. It just isn't.

01:30:38.100 We don't have places where you can visit in Canada to think about the massive amounts of chattel slavery we had. 0.99

01:30:45.520 Because they didn't exist. Because we don't have that. That's not our legacy.

01:30:48.840 It didn't pay. It didn't make sense.

01:30:51.300 So we didn't do it. And it was a totally different story for us. And that's good. I'm glad that we didn't have the same experience. But why then would we have a Juneteenth holiday or celebration or day of remembrance when it's not our story?

01:31:08.980 And I think that's ultimately the really dangerous thing about the time we're in.

01:31:12.440 If you forget your history or denigrate it to the point where nobody will listen to it or do anything about it,

01:31:17.180 then you get into a really, really, really, really, really dangerous situation

01:31:21.440 where anybody can impose your history on you and change your memories, basically.

01:31:26.280 So now all of us think that we kind of, people say they vote for the prime minister.

01:31:30.380 They don't vote for the prime minister.

01:31:31.620 They vote for a member of parliament because we watch too much American TV

01:31:34.300 and we think to ourselves that we vote for our prime minister the same way they vote for the president.

01:31:38.460 That's not true.

01:31:39.360 We all know that.

01:31:40.420 Basic civics tells us that.

01:31:42.400 We know that.

01:31:43.040 That's not rocket science.

01:31:45.040 But people still talk about it like that in a cultural sense.

01:31:48.460 And it's the same thing here.

01:31:49.480 Well, we should get Juneteenth too, and that way we can show solidarity with anybody of African-American descent in Canada.

01:31:55.500 Or just African descent in Canada.

01:31:57.280 Or anybody who is from Canada that is part of a group of people of African descent who have been here a long time and possibly have their roots back to slavery. 0.81

01:32:05.760 Okay.

01:32:08.960 how and why and why would juneteenth be a thing for us we just don't have the story

01:32:14.880 we didn't even send anybody to fight in the civil war unlike other wars lots of people went up north

01:32:20.640 north of the border went down to fight in the civil war i'm sure probably paid well and did

01:32:24.480 everything else but slavery in canada holds holds no no resemblance to what happened in america so

01:32:32.720 why would we celebrate a day that's at all similar and their emancipation proclamation had nothing to

01:32:36.640 to do with ours britain cancelled slavery without violence 30 years before the united states did

01:32:42.480 and today to to this day to date the the americans still haven't lost as many soldiers in all the

01:32:50.640 other conflicts they've ever been in combined as they did killing each other over the question of

01:32:55.180 slavery and states rights and the federal government's role in their affairs that's an

01:32:59.880 objective fact over 600 000 americans died in in the civil war and there is still even with

01:33:06.360 vietnam and the first and second world war and every single bad thing that's ever happened to

01:33:10.700 the united states when it comes to warfare they still and the revolutionary war they still don't

01:33:16.100 have the body count combined that the civil war has alone and we need to think about that so in

01:33:23.280 america the question of juneteenth maybe that's a serious question that's a let them go and debate

01:33:28.520 that in canada it makes absolutely no sense so we're going to get back into what uh dr robson

01:33:33.420 talking about here but this is just complete nonsense as far as i'm concerned so we're going

01:33:37.100 to add that back to the stream and keep scrolling here we'll get to the comments in a second

01:33:42.300 so juneteenth which uh a great day but in someone else's history as partial expiation of someone

01:33:48.220 else's sentence what happened to canada well it got cancelled because blackness has no borders 1.00

01:33:52.060 because indigeneity has no borders because the concept of u.s account was colonial created

01:33:56.060 construct as one activist put it okay so no more true strong and free but what does anyone plan

01:34:04.140 to put in its place and who are they to succeed where anyone in the past failed contemptibly

01:34:08.960 the official history now indoctrinated in schools is the noble savage myth redux about settlers

01:34:15.680 without virtues and aboriginals without flaws which might mislead a person about the source

01:34:20.760 of evil in the world and the ease of abolishing it and about how ditching canada for flaws

01:34:25.320 mild by historical standards

01:34:27.360 might plunge us into the other

01:34:29.360 kind.

01:34:33.800 I'm going to leave that for another

01:34:35.420 minute here. I'm going to get into some of these comments.

01:34:37.760 I'm just blown away.

01:34:42.160 But actually,

01:34:43.540 we're going to

01:34:46.760 pivot here for a second and

01:34:49.160 talk a little bit about

01:34:50.360 the fact that

01:34:52.940 there's actually an ongoing question

01:34:55.180 for me. And maybe we can take this to the comments a little bit. I'm going to punt this from the

01:34:59.380 stream here. Let's take this to the comments a little bit. I want to hear your guys' honest

01:35:03.740 opinion about something, because I'm going to write on it, and I'm struggling to understand

01:35:08.140 what to do about it. And it all ties in again with this question of history and identitarianism

01:35:13.100 and the removing of statues and everything else. So here's an interesting question. I don't know

01:35:17.020 how many people listening right now and watching consider themselves sovereignists, which is to say

01:35:23.200 They want Western Canada or just BC or just Alberta or just a BC and Alberta or the trifecta plus Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan, BC and Manitoba becoming a country or finding some way essentially to tell Ottawa to stuff it and never listen to Ottawa ever again.

01:35:42.880 I don't know how many people watching this stream are on that page in some form, from situational sovereignty to outright, let's create a totally different country.

01:35:55.940 But here's the question.

01:35:57.740 So some of the most vocal anti-Canadian people are left wing and are woke and are trying to destroy Canada Day and get it canceled and change things about Canada and fundamentally delegitimize the Canadian state.

01:36:12.880 so there's that okay then there's our situation as if well our i i'm again i'm ambivalent about

01:36:24.800 sovereignty but i'm here and i'm the host of the show and this is a sovereignish show channel

01:36:29.600 no cancel culture station thing called the western standard and i'm happy to be here so

01:36:35.280 so our narrative over here around sovereignty is that this is the only way for western canadians

01:36:41.320 to get their say. And then over there, they're like, well, I mean, we don't even care about

01:36:45.960 Western or Eastern or North or South Canadians. We're like, no, Canada itself is a crime. So

01:36:50.540 that's the left-wing position, using my left hand. And the right-wing, well, more kind of

01:36:56.460 nationalist perspective and sovereignist perspective, because mostly right-wingers

01:37:02.060 side of the sovereignist movement. There's some left-wingers as well, Aaron Eckman being a

01:37:05.160 noticeable example um it these these people want a better canada and they want a they they want to

01:37:16.740 get or get rid of canada and create a new a new world where kind of the things they think of that

01:37:21.420 are probably properly canadian or good canadian things around freedom and liberty and that sort

01:37:26.000 of step can be preserved because ottawa has become tyrannical so that's so there's two different

01:37:31.320 things here one of them is saying canada is an illegitimate place that should never have existed

01:37:35.640 and the other one is that canada had some good ideas in it but those got ruined basically by

01:37:44.680 pierre trudeau so trudeau senior and then his son trudeau jr and then all the prime really in a

01:37:50.860 sense every prime minister from the second world war onwards except for dieffen baker sometimes

01:37:56.060 harper depending on where you're counting from and even mulrooney when he was just well when

01:38:00.460 Mulroney was being what he was I mean Mulroney was like a less you know a more chaste version

01:38:05.720 of kind of Bill Clinton for us Canadians not because not well not just because of the face

01:38:09.940 and the chin and everything else that was going on with Mulroney but more in the sense of of just

01:38:15.820 like he was just smooth he was smooth he was Mr. Smooth that was the thing about Mulroney is they

01:38:19.840 just seemed to be very smooth it's very polished very well put together because of his because he

01:38:23.860 came for money right he came for money and he'd run some things and so so he was very smooth and

01:38:28.020 i think that was the thing about bill clinton bill clinton was very smooth yes that's the way

01:38:31.860 he got people to vote for he's just smooth he was just silk right and that's how he got away

01:38:36.220 with everything got away with but coming back to this question of what what should we do here so

01:38:43.960 if canada has been fundamentally ruined by the decisions made from basically mckenzie king to

01:38:49.760 drudeau the second and with a couple of of people trying to do the right thing once or twice

01:38:55.760 Diefenbaker, Mulroney, Harper.

01:39:00.540 And even there, they're not perfect.

01:39:03.480 Then kind of on the

01:39:04.680 Sovereignist movement side, it appears

01:39:06.620 that people are,

01:39:09.420 you know, they wish they had a better

01:39:10.720 Canada, they wish they had

01:39:13.120 a kind of better country,

01:39:15.120 the country that they believed they had

01:39:16.960 when they were kids, or that their grandparents

01:39:18.920 told them about, or that

01:39:20.620 even when they read the Constitution that was

01:39:22.680 potentially written by Trudeau Sr., even that

01:39:24.620 constitution still feels like no there's some good ideas in here like i would like personal security

01:39:29.040 and i'd like my freedom of expression and that's a charter right that's important and then and then

01:39:33.900 back to the bna act and the separation of powers and strong federalist federalism like like strong

01:39:39.180 separation of powers not federalists but sovereignists who want separation of powers

01:39:42.700 so there's a lot of different pieces there but then you have the left okay you have the left

01:39:46.760 and the left is legitimately saying we should cancel canada day and there shouldn't be a canada

01:39:51.660 anymore i don't know how many sovereignists can get on board with that and i am asking the people

01:39:56.280 listening right now and watching to weigh into this and just send me an email and everything

01:40:02.820 else i think i might bring up my email here because i really want to know where we stand

01:40:06.460 on this and i do mean we a bit here um i mean we because we i think this is going to be a struggle

01:40:16.020 because the problem is ultimately what this boils down to if you want to pull the curtain away and

01:40:20.720 look inside and you know don't look behind the curtain well here's the curtain okay here's what's

01:40:25.240 behind the curtain the sovereignty movement has to decide whether it is a identitarian movement

01:40:34.000 that is to say it's about identity or it's a it's a political movement and a political movement can

01:40:41.920 be done with anything right a political movement can be done with anyone and anybody right so 0.97

01:40:48.820 we all want garbage collection on our street well it doesn't matter if your neighbor's gay 1.00

01:40:54.160 and your other neighbor is is is a bible thumping straight lace kind of guy it doesn't matter if 0.98

01:40:59.520 you're an atheist it doesn't matter if the guy across from you can barely speak english 0.80

01:41:02.820 it that doesn't matter so you can have the mosaic multicultural thing you all want garbage pickup 1.00

01:41:07.980 that's what you want you're tired of being on the outskirts of town and not getting garbage pickup

01:41:11.780 you're still in the in the city limits but you don't get garbage pickup and you've had enough

01:41:15.920 So you organize people together.

01:41:18.340 It doesn't matter what color they are.

01:41:19.500 It doesn't matter their sexual orientation.

01:41:20.780 And you accomplish a goal. 0.95

01:41:22.080 And the goal is we want garbage pickup.

01:41:24.360 And you accomplish it because, and I mean, it's a very concrete goal.

01:41:27.180 Nobody doesn't want garbage pickup.

01:41:28.600 They want their garbage to be picked up because they're tired of hauling it. 0.82

01:41:32.000 They're paying money for a service they're not getting.

01:41:34.660 Very simple.

01:41:35.540 but now we have to turn the same question towards what are we going to do about sovereignty

01:41:46.940 is sovereignty an identitarian thing which is to say the reason the reason that we're not just we're

01:41:53.560 not trying to get garbage pickup on your street anymore okay so we use the same analogy guy who

01:41:58.080 doesn't speak english guy who's of a different orientation than you guy who's religious guy who

01:42:01.800 isn't every color every class every creed doesn't matter okay you've got this multicultural

01:42:06.180 mosaic canadian cul-de-sac which i guess is a gigantic cul-de-sac to get that many people in

01:42:11.980 but let's just pretend for a moment you've got 50 houses in this cul-de-sac or it's a neighborhood

01:42:16.020 it's a neighborhood you have a block you have a city block and it's a neighborhood and somehow

01:42:20.320 basically from every strata of society from just just above the bottom to just below the top you

01:42:25.900 have that inside of your your your neighborhood now you've got a different question you're not

01:42:32.480 trying to get garbage pickup that's a service it's concrete it's you pay money you get the service

01:42:37.420 very concrete not hard to understand now you want to have a celebration of something okay

01:42:43.700 you want to celebrate prince george's birthday okay not prince george the place though though

01:42:51.800 we could do that too but prince george the person so we have another george possibly going to be on

01:42:57.080 the throne right it's been years since we've had had a george because we've had a lizzie for a

01:43:01.460 really long time and so it's been a few years since we had a george and we're thinking about

01:43:05.680 trying to celebrate george and break make him an important part of our neighborhood's lives

01:43:11.080 well that's going to cause some controversy because unlike garbage pickup which is a very

01:43:15.900 straightforward request that everybody could get on side with you now have a problem of

01:43:20.460 interpretation so somebody who you might have actually thought was a monarchist suddenly tells

01:43:25.480 you they're not they're like no i'm not a monarchist i hate the monarchy i want it gone somebody else

01:43:29.680 who comes from a colonial background is like well the monarchy he ruined my country well maybe he 0.95

01:43:34.120 did that's that maybe he did maybe he didn't but there's a grudge there right and so that's a

01:43:38.260 woundedness that is not going to help create celebrate prince george day and on and on and

01:43:43.400 on it goes and different there's going to be people who are very in favor uh who you would

01:43:48.740 never thought would be in favor. And there's going to be people in favor who you're suspicious about

01:43:52.620 because really they're gaslighting. So they're using your celebration about the monarchy to make

01:43:56.940 people who hate the monarchy get really angry so they can motivate them to send the money to help

01:44:01.720 fight the monarchy and to help end the monarchy in Canada. This is an identitarian problem. It's 1.00

01:44:08.560 a question of identity and belonging, right? So garbage pickup, not a question of identity. No

01:44:13.500 one's going into an existential crisis when it comes to getting their garbage picked up. But as

01:44:17.400 soon as you attempt to have essentially a festival, an idea that's really been beaten out of us

01:44:22.320 basically since modernity started and eventually, especially with industrialization and not being

01:44:27.960 able to take whatever time off you want anytime, right? Because it's not just about seasonal

01:44:32.460 farming anymore. The lights stay on in a factory all the time. You could put people through 24

01:44:37.300 hours in a factory. Time doesn't matter anymore. The season doesn't matter anymore. The sun doesn't

01:44:43.020 matter anymore after industrialization and so we don't have group festivals anymore right because

01:44:47.980 we don't have the ability to do it because there is no harvest time festival why would there be

01:44:51.560 you can just get back to work you start planting crops for next year you can go into green housing

01:44:55.200 right you can just work work work work work there is no leisure and so you're trying to have a group

01:45:00.580 festival you're trying to reinstill the festival and the festival that has been kind of beaten out

01:45:06.140 of us by industrialization now we have to come up with some philosophical arguments around what kind

01:45:11.960 festival should it be how are we going to celebrate this together where are our values we're a

01:45:16.520 neighborhood this neighborhood wants to do something for itself without city hall's approval

01:45:21.720 without anybody getting in our way this is what we want to do well how are we going to decide to

01:45:25.560 do that how are we going to move forward and to the question of removing statues and the woke

01:45:32.520 crowd and everything else that's happening they are denigrating canada so they are your neighbor 1.00

01:45:37.320 down the street who thinks canada is a flaming pile of garbage okay it's a dumpster fire of a 0.96

01:45:42.680 country it's a backwater that doesn't know it's a backwater that's what they say about canada 0.98

01:45:46.660 they denigrate it they swear they use four letter words they they they bleep all over this country 0.99

01:45:52.200 okay and then you got your guy just down the road here who is just really really upset with ottawa

01:45:57.880 he's really upset with ottawa he's probably you know he probably owns a gun he's probably right 1.00

01:46:02.640 wing in most things he's he's pretty conserved with with a lot of his attitude he just he hates

01:46:08.240 ottawa being he's certainly at least freedom he's certainly pro-freedom right he has he probably

01:46:13.100 owns a firearm probably drives something that's not the greatest on gas and he you know and he

01:46:18.260 probably comes from an old stock background he probably doesn't look super like a super new

01:46:23.600 immigrant or a recent addition to this country and he probably he doesn't he probably doesn't 1.00

01:46:28.180 look like that so you have this demographic over here and then you have the wokies over there 1.00

01:46:33.940 but the weird thing is that both of them are are dishing on ottawa right now and the question

01:46:39.220 becomes can the sovereignness without losing the integrity of their project join with the wokies

01:46:49.960 to destroy canada that's my question to you will that fundamentally change the sovereignty journey

01:46:56.440 I'm not saying it's all wokey because let's be clear 1.00

01:46:58.640 there's plenty of people who aren't woke

01:47:00.560 but are very angry about what happened with

01:47:02.480 residential schools and other things

01:47:04.520 of Canada's past and present for that matter

01:47:06.580 who have a lot to say

01:47:08.480 about Canada and want it destroyed

01:47:10.380 or done away with or want BC to be

01:47:12.400 reconstructed or want their

01:47:14.220 regional district to be the hell out of their hair 0.60

01:47:16.420 because they won't allow them to have a secondary residence

01:47:18.280 because that's a really good way to save

01:47:20.520 the environment or whatever

01:47:22.060 preserve land or whatever by not having secondary

01:47:24.520 residents. Brilliant move there RD

01:47:26.240 but the point is that it all links up to the same thing which is what is the direction of this

01:47:31.800 country or this neighborhood or your family it comes down to identity it comes down to values

01:47:36.740 that's how you decide where you're headed and where you're coming from where you're going

01:47:39.520 and the issue here is that if sovereignty wants to succeed can it succeed without allies on the left

01:47:48.880 probably not but those allies on the left come at a cost and some of them are pretty i'll say it

01:47:54.640 right? They're kind of crazy. And they have some very, very strong language to use around the 0.99

01:47:59.920 question of this country. Are sovereigntists okay with that? Are we okay? We. Are those who

01:48:09.900 are in favor of sovereignty okay with being associated with people who literally want to

01:48:14.640 burn the Canadian flag? I think most sovereignists just want the Canadian flag removed.

01:48:20.380 Maybe some of them would even go back to the ensign, I think. A lot of sovereigntists are

01:48:23.520 really just waiting for Diefenbaker to be resurrected and to go back to Diefenbaker in

01:48:28.300 Canada, you know, or Borden's Canada, or John A's Canada, for that matter, in a kind of in a more

01:48:35.040 classically liberal sense and more freedom and and a separation of powers and the federal

01:48:40.920 government not being in their face all the time. That's what I think most sovereigns want. But are

01:48:45.720 they are they willing to join hands with people who literally proclaim that Canada is an illegitimate

01:48:52.260 state that must be destroyed the same way that i'm trying to remember who said that all the time in

01:48:57.880 the roman senate pliny was applying to the elder or younger or whatever he always said the same

01:49:05.580 thing over and over again carthage must be destroyed every single speech he gave didn't

01:49:09.780 matter what it was about his his his chorus at the end his refrain was and carthage must be destroyed

01:49:16.060 and so to the same point here when it comes to canada there are people who literally right that's

01:49:21.460 they end their speeches and that's how they're ending all their speeches lately ever since those

01:49:24.820 215 remains were found in camlos it carthage must be destroyed canada must be destroyed

01:49:31.700 do you believe that as a sovereignist if you're a sovereignist and you're watching the show right now

01:49:36.420 do you do you think that you can ally with people like that do you think that's okay

01:49:41.940 do you think that the the left-wing activists who are actively seeking the destruction of this

01:49:48.180 country the deal the delegitimization of canada do you think that they can be trusted and do you

01:49:53.540 believe that they ought to be allies of ours of of those who are sovertis in in this project

01:50:03.860 i have a lot of questions about that and i have a lot of questions about that because

01:50:10.420 maybe just like the art you are what you eat

01:50:12.420 the the other side of that equation is you somewhat are who you associate with

01:50:22.320 you know i mean alcoholics anonymous meets and has soft drinks and and talks about their

01:50:31.800 struggles and talks about how things are going in their lives at places where there aren't

01:50:36.360 alcohol at non at places where there isn't there isn't beer and wine at places that are church

01:50:41.940 basements and that sort of thing uh to to to keep themselves away from uh to keep themselves away

01:50:53.680 from from from from temptation from the drink right and to not be associated with those who

01:50:58.300 are because that's how that's how easily you could fall back into that that that habit that place

01:51:03.420 so this is the question can you can you actually sheldon's putting it really well right now i'm

01:51:10.760 to grab him not a separatist but i am fresh a frustrated canadian joining hands with the woke 0.87

01:51:15.560 is a deal with the devil and and and that's my sentiments but but are those accurate sentiments

01:51:21.800 and rose puts the same point i'm 100 for sovereignty for all the west my reason is

01:51:30.200 due to tyranny from the east no i'm not okay with joining with terrorists slash activists

01:51:35.580 i i like the way you said that rose i really do i i think that's amazing but um i

01:51:43.500 this is the old problem right this is the old problem like we're we don't got time to get into

01:51:50.460 it now we're at the end of the show so i'm going to kind of roll through here and just see if

01:51:53.400 there's one or two more comments that are worth grabbing i didn't grab a lot of comments on

01:51:56.940 slavery i'm so sorry guys i just didn't i was on i was i was on a crescendo and i just couldn't

01:52:02.520 stop. But, but I, and I got to bring this crescendo to a halt here. We got to do a

01:52:07.080 retardando here or else we're going to be all over the place as we exit. 0.96

01:52:15.520 Look, look, this is the Irish problem, right? This is the Irish problem. What got Ireland 0.96

01:52:25.560 its separate state from Britain.

01:52:28.720 There's no nice way to say it.

01:52:30.880 It was warfare and it was terrorism.

01:52:34.000 Okay?

01:52:34.680 And the IRA today is still listed

01:52:36.820 as a terrorist organization.

01:52:39.160 Right?

01:52:41.740 And the question becomes over and over again,

01:52:44.880 right, the FLQ, right,

01:52:46.960 and the funny separatist things

01:52:48.700 that were happening there.

01:52:50.100 The, you know, the things that happened

01:52:52.060 throughout Europe.

01:52:54.560 There were lots of actually little organizations running around Europe taking airplanes.

01:52:58.500 That was, I remember somebody telling me that was something a historian told me once.

01:53:01.560 So yeah, like the 60s and 70s, late 60s into the 70s was the age of taking airplanes hostage.

01:53:07.140 It was like hostages on airplanes.

01:53:09.000 That was, you know, because they just didn't have the security that we have today.

01:53:13.040 And so, I mean, this isn't a condone, condoning violence and any of that stuff and shaking hands

01:53:21.440 with the devil or joining with terrorists and activists.

01:53:23.420 I don't want that either. What I'm simply stating, though, for the record, is that if you want to look at history, history is going to tell you pretty quickly that some pretty ardent resistance, which some might have called terrorism at the time, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter is another way it's said.

01:53:46.500 And this is not condoning that. But it's just again, it comes back to this problem. The examples we have in history, there's only a few, you know, velvet revolutions and velvet separations. One of them is Czechoslovakia at the end of the Cold War. When the Soviet Union is breaking up, Czechoslovakia breaks into totally agree basically where the borders are supposed to be. I think a couple of people moved. I don't know if they bothered. Like, I don't think Czechoslovakia have a particularly strong ethnic difference.

01:54:15.960 I'd have to be shown how that's different.

01:54:18.660 And further to that, I don't think Czechs and Slovaks, you know, bothered fighting each other about this stuff.

01:54:24.160 Their leadership was good.

01:54:25.360 Their leadership said, nope, we're going to split the country right here. 0.90

01:54:28.480 It wasn't ever supposed to be Czechoslovakia anyways.

01:54:30.640 It was supposed to be Czech Republic and Slovakia.

01:54:33.900 And that's what should have happened.

01:54:35.240 So they split the country and they went on their merry way. 0.98

01:54:39.240 And I don't think a shot was fired.

01:54:40.620 And that happened in one or two other places throughout history.

01:54:43.100 But the problem is that most of the time, what happens is what happened in Ireland with England and what happened in Yugoslavia, the former Yugoslavia, which became, of course, Bosnia, the absolute massacres that happened in Bosnia.

01:54:57.020 And this is exactly the problem.

01:54:59.420 What is the answer?

01:55:01.780 I don't want to join hands with people who seem okay with burning churches either, because I'm guessing that some of the same kind of element is there.

01:55:08.920 I'm not okay with people who want to topple statues.

01:55:11.220 I'm not okay with people rummaging through, through, you know, other people's purses by force and or attacking their businesses.

01:55:20.920 I think all that's really, really dangerous and really, really wrong.

01:55:24.460 And I think the French Revolution, in a sense, was probably the result of people like, like Sheldon over here explaining how upset he is.

01:55:33.560 But people with legitimate grievances joining hands with people who had illegitimate grievances and wanted to go places that weren't possible.

01:55:41.220 so i don't know i don't know it's a hard question uh we're going to leave it there for now you've

01:55:49.480 had my email up here for a little while that's ngita at western standard online do send me your

01:55:54.580 thoughts and suggestions for the show uh and i want to say thank you so much for tuning in today

01:55:59.120 we're thankful to have sheldon on and we're thankful to kind of talk to everybody about

01:56:03.340 everything and i'm just very i'm very thankful for uh for everyone's attention and for everyone's

01:56:09.340 help throughout this show so why don't you guys have a great uh rest of your morning or afternoon

01:56:14.660 and we'll see you again bright and early tomorrow 9 a.m pacific 10 a.m mountain

Western Standard - June 23, 2021

Mountain Standard Time June 22, 2021

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