Western Standard - Mountain Standard Time - May 26, 2021

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 Thank you.

00:01:30.000 good morning and welcome of course to mountain standard time i'm your host nathan guida

00:01:44.720 and today we'll be talking with aaron ekman he's joining us in studio today which is a privilege

00:01:49.920 i mean we're uh in bc we just loosened up all our restrictions so obviously this is exactly what

00:01:55.320 bonnie henry was thinking because we're going to talk of her so highly later

00:01:59.180 So again, good morning, and I'm just so thankful you're here.

00:02:02.460 We're going to be talking a few things today about the loosening of the restrictions and everything else.

00:02:07.320 But remember to like us on Facebook, follow us on YouTube, and support the Western Standard with an online subscription if you can.

00:02:13.340 We don't get a big check from the Liberals every year that tells us how to tell other jobs and support the Laurentian consensus back east.

00:02:20.780 So if you take out a subscription, you can support independent journalism.

00:02:23.680 And right now, the Western Standard is definitely the place to go for, you know, leaks, especially when it comes to Alberta and what's going on with the Kenney government and how that's all falling apart.

00:02:32.500 I must confess that even a hardened cynic like myself is cautiously optimistic about the four-step reopening plan for B.C.

00:02:38.540 Tentatively, the dates are May 25th.

00:02:40.480 That was yesterday, I believe.

00:02:42.700 And June 15th, July 1st, and then September 7th, just after the Labor Day long weekend.

00:02:47.900 So perhaps the reason I've dared to hope that we might finally be heading out of this nonsensical tyranny that I honestly don't believe saved any lives and probably cost more than it helped is that the completely tone-deaf trio of Dix, Henry, and Horgan might finally understand that the rage of British Columbians has reached a critical mass.

00:03:05.380 People are already heading to their cottages, cabins, and retreats without giving a hoot what the travel order is.

00:03:10.320 Mass are beginning to droop under chins, and speakeasies are openly operating.

00:03:13.800 There's even some churches that are leaving their doors open, just not telling anybody that there's a service.

00:03:18.060 But if you happen to be there and the priest happens to be there, the pastor, whatever, Mass suddenly appears.

00:03:23.920 And so funnily enough, I think that people are finally getting to a point that they're just upset with it all.

00:03:29.660 And they want to get moving forward.

00:03:33.980 So to that end, we've got Aaron Ekman on and we're going to talk a little bit about what's going on in B.C. and the change of the restrictions.

00:03:39.680 Were you expecting them to extend things, or did you think things would loosen up this last Tuesday?

00:03:45.460 I figured things were going to have to loosen up a little bit.

00:03:48.420 I mean, the cases have been in free fall for the last couple of weeks, really.

00:03:52.900 And especially if you compare the number of cases in British Columbia to the ones in Alberta, the difference is quite stark.

00:03:59.840 And the number of vaccinations have gone up as well.

00:04:02.280 A lot of people are—I haven't been vaccinated.

00:04:04.000 I don't think you've been vaccinated, but a good number of people have.

00:04:07.220 So at that point, you think they kind of have to come off.

00:04:12.500 You'd hope so.

00:04:13.340 And I probably differ from a number of people in the sense that I've never felt that the restrictions in British Columbia were that stringent compared to some other jurisdictions.

00:04:23.040 I think if I was still working in the service industry like I did when I was younger, I would be singing a different tune.

00:04:29.860 I know if you're working as a server, especially in a restaurant or something like that, it's been terrible.

00:04:34.500 but a good number of people in the province in the public sector for instance haven't haven't

00:04:39.260 taken a hit at all but also what's so interesting to me is if you if you get on twitter like if you

00:04:45.140 got on twitter yesterday which i don't recommend by the way no but some of us do it so you don't

00:04:49.540 have to but if you were on twitter yesterday i mean you got the sense that british colombians

00:04:54.980 were incensed at how fast the restrictions were coming off and and it was just another example

00:05:02.740 of how twitter is like the same 10 people and the rest of us aren't there the people on twitter

00:05:09.360 think that twitter is representative of the world like it is their whole universe but it is absolutely

00:05:15.120 clear to me that it's this increasingly smaller group of basically technocrats and sort of the

00:05:21.580 professional managerial class who just like accelerate and reverberate these echo chamber

00:05:28.080 ideas off of each other until they they convince themselves that it's representative of of the

00:05:33.660 whole population but if you step outside which none of these people are doing i guess uh and

00:05:38.760 talk to a real person you get a very different sense of reality so so that was that was my

00:05:43.700 takeaway was that the restrictions uh i've never thought the restrictions in in bc were quite that

00:05:49.200 bad like uh but again i mean i don't go to church i don't work in the service sector uh but when you

00:05:55.340 see the kind of stuff that's happening in alberta where they're where they're literally jailing

00:05:58.860 pastors yeah like they're breaking into churches they're shutting down rodeos like all sorts of

00:06:04.160 crazy stuff which you know in my opinion the western standard's been doing a great job uh

00:06:08.080 quite a courageous job of covering i don't think anybody else is really covering it at least not

00:06:11.860 with the same slant that the standard is uh that kind of stuff isn't really happening in bc um and

00:06:17.080 so i've sort of got the sense that well you know it hasn't been quite as bad but um but if like i

00:06:22.040 said if you get on twitter uh people are incensed that the restrictions are are coming off at all

00:06:27.800 yeah we're gonna have to i guess we're gonna have to cross-examine stewart parker on that tomorrow

00:06:31.600 well he'll give you a different take we're gonna get the opposite of that so if you were really in

00:06:35.680 favor of the restrictions we're gonna have stewart come on tomorrow and explain to us why uh fly

00:06:40.080 fishing isn't an essential service but uh we love you stewart uh but the point being that i think i

00:06:46.640 think what's hit me a bit is that it's kind of weird i really expected bonnie henry to to blink

00:06:52.900 again like she did right before easter right before easter she just all of a sudden she just

00:06:57.320 reversed everything like people had started to like pull out chairs at churches and they had

00:07:01.160 started to move things around like they had made a lot of moves to get this to happen because they

00:07:06.080 were kind of given two days notice and they started to move move move as fast as they could

00:07:10.280 and then it snapped the other direction and and they had to put everything back and roll everything

00:07:15.380 back up and suddenly the restaurants even dine-in was closed like it was just it was a really big

00:07:20.720 reality reversal for a lot of people and so a lot of people are really disappointed about it they've

00:07:24.180 been mad about it the last six weeks and now now here we are so i for myself i felt like uh bonnie

00:07:30.920 was going to blink on us again and and pull the football but but she didn't and so far we don't

00:07:36.560 know what's going to happen next we'll see if cases climb or whatever but bonnie i really didn't have

00:07:40.840 faith in her but at this rate you know uh i'm hoping to get married by the end of the summer

00:07:45.200 Congratulations, by the way.

00:07:46.360 Thank you.

00:07:46.800 I mean, I'm not really big into marriage, but I really like it when other people do it,

00:07:50.880 and especially good people.

00:07:52.160 I like it when good people get together and make more good people,

00:07:55.220 and so I'm really excited to see you go down this road.

00:07:58.420 Well, thank you.

00:07:59.040 I really appreciate that.

00:07:59.780 Yeah, I watched yesterday's show, and I know some people maybe weren't too into you telling me.

00:08:03.920 Yeah, I didn't really know what was going on there.

00:08:05.740 Somebody was like crapping all over that.

00:08:07.280 I was like, I'm just sharing this news.

00:08:09.180 It wasn't like I talked about it the whole time, not even remotely, but it just—

00:08:12.680 Well, you talked about it a lot, but, like, it's pretty exciting.

00:08:15.220 I mean, you literally got engaged the day before.

00:08:17.460 I mean, you can't, you know, like, let's talk to you a few weeks after you get married.

00:08:21.660 You won't be talking about this anymore.

00:08:23.040 Yeah, fair enough.

00:08:23.960 Fair enough.

00:08:25.820 There's a comment right here, actually.

00:08:27.520 It's a good place to go.

00:08:28.200 Does BC have any desire for independence?

00:08:30.720 Hell yeah.

00:08:31.740 Yeah, and that's the problem.

00:08:33.100 I think that northern BC has got a desire for independence from southern BC at this rate, especially COVID.

00:08:38.040 I think COVID might have really pushed that over the edge because they just divided the province into clearly the tiny little corner down in the southwest and everybody else.

00:08:47.320 And everybody else is just like, that's it.

00:08:48.680 I'm going to the cabin.

00:08:49.540 I'm going boating.

00:08:50.320 I don't care.

00:08:51.880 And people down in Vancouver and Victoria are the ones that are all scaredy cats about everything.

00:08:56.380 And that's just it.

00:08:57.780 The rest of us are all like, no, I'd rather go out to the mountains and do whatever and have a barbecue.

00:09:02.180 And I think they kind of showed the cultural differences between the two parts of the province.

00:09:06.400 Well, thanks, Rose, for, like, allowing us to, you know, prompting us to talk about this.

00:09:10.460 There's nothing I like talking about more in British Columbia than the independence question,

00:09:14.320 which, you know, catches a few people off guard because I'm a self-proclaimed wide-eyed socialist, right?

00:09:20.360 In fact, I mean, the reason why I wanted to rush to get on your show today was because a few people were calling you a socialist, I saw on the call.

00:09:25.360 Yeah, no, yesterday I was being called a socialist.

00:09:27.080 Which I was just at my house watching, howling.

00:09:28.960 I thought, I better come on this show and remind people what a real socialist looks like, right?

00:09:32.400 Nathan's just a capitalist from the days before bailouts, okay?

00:09:37.280 Like, he doesn't...

00:09:38.060 That's not what's going on over here.

00:09:40.580 But the independence discussion in BC is, I would argue, more complicated than in Alberta.

00:09:46.880 In Alberta, it's...

00:09:48.120 It is a lot more complicated.

00:09:49.060 Yeah, and it's more complicated because it's not necessarily a conservative...

00:09:54.060 Like, there's not a conservative bent to it.

00:09:56.360 Not a conservative liberal divide, not necessarily.

00:09:58.300 No, it's not, like, wholly in the conservative milieu.

00:10:02.400 it's it's sort of spread which it has to be because british columbia is so politically diverse

00:10:07.440 depending on where you go uh you know and we said before you go to the northeast of the province

00:10:12.240 close to alberta it's definitely more conservative but the further west you go even along the same

00:10:16.000 parallel so you can stay just as north but you get closer to terrace kitimat etc or you go up to atlin

00:10:21.760 like there's you know i mean there's some left-wing people out there right yeah um i'm from

00:10:25.280 terrace originally my family's from terrace where you know it's like a i come from like logging

00:10:31.200 stock right right right basically the forest industry before the bottom fell out of it

00:10:34.800 uh and so it's you know like on my house for instance if you were to drive by my house there's

00:10:39.420 a there's a some on some days there's a british columbian flag hanging off the house on other

00:10:43.360 days there's a cascadian flag the old dug right hanging off the house but if you look at the old

00:10:48.100 boundaries of the cascadian bio region it just sort eclipse uh prince george where we are the

00:10:54.720 northern capital into it and sort of excludes the rest and sort of cedes it to basically alberta

00:11:00.400 So the rough boundaries of people that have sort of played around with this idea, I think if you're in the lower mainland and sort of the southwest of the province and maybe the southern interior, you're kind of interested in, you've been kind of interested in the Cascadian experiment, the Cascadian discussion, and so you generally have an affinity to Oregon and Washington and that area.

00:11:21.800 But if you're in the rest of the province, like Northeast, et cetera, you're more of like a, you probably more identify as a New Caledonian.

00:11:29.720 And certainly if you get into the Peace River country, I mean, a lot of those folks identify with Albertans far more than they do with their, with their on their time.

00:11:36.280 They're on their time as well.

00:11:37.100 I mean, this isn't the Mountain Standard Time show, right?

00:11:40.060 And we're not even in that time zone.

00:11:42.100 I mean, so, so there is that interesting political divide.

00:11:44.680 So it presents a unique challenge for Alberta because part of the disagreement I might have with some Albertan independence advocates or separatists, for instance, is that I would argue that the independence movement, from my perspective, it's not necessarily accurate and not the same from everybody's perspective, is a little too controlled by oil interest, by industry interest.

00:12:06.860 And it's not that I'm against oil or pipelines.

00:12:08.840 I'm actually in favor of most pipelines.

00:12:12.000 I'm always hesitant when any kind of a political movement has too much sort of corporate or industry control,

00:12:17.180 especially given that a lot of the industry participants in that particular industry are their foreign interests.

00:12:23.920 Yeah, they are.

00:12:24.640 So, you know, like I got no love for our federated system where we've got, you know, we're controlled by a government in Ontario,

00:12:32.640 which really, from my perspective, is just as far away from me as Japan.

00:12:38.320 You know, like it's not that much far, it's not that much closer.

00:12:41.820 But I'm even more hesitant to go down a road where, you know, sure, you fight for independence,

00:12:47.180 but then you end up controlled by sort of the corporate interests in your area,

00:12:51.100 which aren't even really from your area.

00:12:52.620 But the challenge for Alberta, I think, on this question is, you know, you got to, you have to,

00:12:58.180 whether you're worried about oil interests or not, you still have a product that you're producing

00:13:02.040 and most of the economy in that province is based on getting that product to market

00:13:05.960 and BC presents a big challenge because we got the coastline.

00:13:11.860 So it's an interesting discussion.

00:13:14.160 I think the challenge for independence advocates in Alberta is,

00:13:17.940 the biggest challenge really is the BC question.

00:13:19.960 How do we create political alliances with people like me, for instance,

00:13:27.300 who probably see things a little differently on a number of political issues

00:13:31.700 but happen to be an ally on the question of independence from Ottawa and Ontario.

00:13:36.420 Or at the very least, greater provincial autonomy from the federal government,

00:13:41.200 more of a decentralized system.

00:13:44.220 I don't think that it's totally counterintuitive that people from the left could be more independently minded.

00:13:51.680 I mean, I don't think Tommy Douglas was a big, big federation guy.

00:13:56.040 And I think that if you even look at the way Rachel Notley was kind of charting her own course,

00:14:00.920 And for that matter, I mean, Tom Mulcair had a lot of deference to Quebec's questions around sovereignty,

00:14:07.100 though he was still a legalist.

00:14:08.660 He did believe in laws, and so now he has criticisms around what Trudeau is doing,

00:14:12.620 just letting Quebec rewrite the Constitution by himself.

00:14:15.140 But I mean, I feel like, and I mean Manitoba as well,

00:14:18.260 I think Manitoba and Saskatchewan under its NDP governments didn't necessarily always just go with Ottawa.

00:14:23.740 Same with the BC NDP, didn't just hang out with Ottawa all the time.

00:14:27.660 and i mean they're going to chart their own course here on the daycare question i don't i don't think

00:14:32.200 that it's it how i think what people get wrong is that they think that if you're left-wing you're

00:14:37.340 inherently big state right you're just inherently big government and this is actually somewhere

00:14:41.540 where i think you and stewart i think that's one of the reasons why you and stewart disagree on

00:14:45.140 some things is that i was talking with stewart about this last week because i was like well

00:14:49.580 should bc get a senate right because because the problem is that victoria doesn't represent us

00:14:54.080 very well so should bc get a senate and he's like well i don't believe in bicameral system i'm like

00:14:58.260 well why is that was that because i'm a big state guy and i don't need three you know three four

00:15:02.200 ten checks and balances to keep my agenda from rolling through and i'm like well that's an

00:15:07.520 interesting back and forth but to the same point here like i just don't i don't think you're a big

00:15:11.420 government guy i think you like the idea of like like crown corporations but you're not a big

00:15:15.740 government guy no i think uh it's i mean that's an interesting point it's and my position's

00:15:22.140 probably changed a little bit over the years but i i think you're correct i'm not a big government

00:15:26.600 guy in the traditional sense that somebody like me would be i'm an old school leninist uh and

00:15:32.060 you know my frustration with folks on the right is that they have that they don't understand

00:15:36.720 marxism uh as well as they should in order to criticize it this has always been my big critique

00:15:40.960 of jordan peterson for instance who i've got a lot of time for on a number of issues uh but he gets

00:15:46.100 into this trap of blaming all of the things that are happening in universities etc which i agree

00:15:51.000 with him on uh he blames it on what he calls cultural marxism and it's like you know the real

00:15:55.620 marxists like me uh we're just as troubled by by the kind of stuff that's bothering people like him

00:16:02.060 and people like you uh and and i don't think we're really giving credit for that um but because you

00:16:10.020 know i mean the old leninist uh position on this stuff is eventually you you try to facilitate what

00:16:14.940 he called the withering away of the state i mean you you really are trying to get rid of that stuff

00:16:18.900 In some ways, he was a bit of an anarchist, but not in as much of a hurry, where the anarchists just sort of want to wipe it all out.

00:16:26.640 I think that I'm a big believer in public services that provide value and are more economically efficient to deliver through the taxation model.

00:16:35.820 It doesn't mean I think we should be subjected to all sorts of taxes.

00:16:40.460 In fact, you and I disagree on which tax is better, right?

00:16:43.800 I'm a consumption tax guy.

00:16:44.900 You're a consumption tax guy.

00:16:45.960 I think consumption taxes are by far the most regressive

00:16:48.200 and penalize workers disproportionately, right?

00:16:51.260 I like taxes that sort of focus in on where the money is,

00:16:54.540 and workers don't have as much money,

00:16:56.320 and I don't think workers should be taxed as much,

00:16:58.200 which is why I like the Albertan system

00:16:59.680 of not having a provincial consumption tax.

00:17:03.200 I think we should tax wealth or we should tax property.

00:17:06.980 And you and I could probably agree on the property piece,

00:17:10.040 given some of your comments yesterday in relation to housing.

00:17:13.840 Certainly speculation.

00:17:14.760 It's speculation in particular.

00:17:16.980 Yeah.

00:17:17.440 But I have, I share the same worries that people on the right do about this leviathan that we're creating in government that is starting to get beyond just provision of health care and all, you know, all the other kind of services that are important and starting to get into discussions about like whether, whether white people have too much privilege without even knowing it, for instance.

00:17:41.400 I mean, like we had this graphic, I don't know if we've, we've got it, but, um, I was just like,

00:17:46.280 I was astounded the other day. Um, it was a couple of weeks ago. I saw this graphic come

00:17:51.920 out from the provincial government that, uh, it basically like, it was like, it looked like a

00:17:56.640 cartoon had been drawn up. It was official thing. I think it might've come out of the health authority

00:17:59.840 or something. And it said something to the effect of if you, uh, if you don't realize you have

00:18:05.340 privilege, it probably means you've got privilege or something like that. And it's this, it's the

00:18:08.620 same diversity based idea that if um yeah here it is right here we're going to pull it up in a

00:18:16.040 sec i just want i want people to see this because this is came from the government this is a

00:18:19.860 government document yeah we'll just i know it's probably not up in the feed yet but our producers

00:18:24.700 um it says if you are unaware of privilege you might be privileged um that's like so badly drawn

00:18:33.140 can i are we showing this can people see it yet we're working on it yeah no we're we're getting

00:18:38.240 there but it just i'm just like what like we're paying money for this what is happening well it's

00:18:45.100 this idea that like you're so racist man you don't even know you're racist right and and it's just

00:18:51.220 such a like identitarian it's a racist idea in itself uh and it's not it's not necessarily racist

00:18:58.440 against white people it's like it just reduces everybody to their identity and totally removes

00:19:03.240 it's it's unbelievable to me that that like you know our government is putting this stuff out on

00:19:10.060 the taxpayer dime yeah if you are unaware of your privilege you might be privileged now and this is

00:19:15.660 this is the thing like you know like the people that are really into jordan peterson for instance

00:19:19.360 would look at this and go well this is this is coming out of our universities this is a product

00:19:23.240 of cultural marxism right and it's like look i mean i'm probably the only person that western

00:19:29.960 standard viewers will ever know or meet or interact with who actually was a member of the

00:19:34.720 communist party right like not just a member of the communist party i was on the payroll of the

00:19:38.480 communist party for a little while as an organizer and i can tell you that the the old school

00:19:43.960 communists the the ones that i sort of studied with and and and and they were kind of mentors

00:19:49.740 to me people that were literally trained in the soviet union uh instead of going to university

00:19:54.200 they fought against this kind of stuff vociferously and and they fought against me when i was trying

00:19:58.780 to bring it in like and this is the reason like i i'm not railing against uh the identitarians

00:20:04.020 necessarily i'm sort of trying to come to terms with my own identitarianism of my own past self

00:20:08.280 and you know so i i when i went into the communist party for instance i started doing the same kind

00:20:13.620 of things that i was trying to do in student unions and every other organization i was involved

00:20:17.500 in i i wanted there to be like tokenized representatives on the on the leadership

00:20:22.620 council a lady representative i want a lady aboriginal representative you know all based 0.88

00:20:26.940 on the color of people's skin and stuff and it was and all the younger folks they were all like

00:20:31.180 yeah yeah that's exactly what we need to do and it was the older school folks who had been trained 0.85

00:20:35.080 uh you know by marxists in the soviet union who were like no this is terrible this is a terrible

00:20:39.960 idea this is divisive it takes away from what they termed at the time of working class unity

00:20:45.520 so it's it's always funny to me that like you know whenever people on the right are railing

00:20:50.460 against this stuff in universities etc it's always the cultural marxists that they that they uh that

00:20:55.460 they blame but the reality is like name one real marxist in a university today in canada i can't

00:21:01.320 really think of any there's a lot of people that maybe call themselves marxists a lot of people in

00:21:04.660 the gender studies departments maybe describe themselves as marxist they haven't read any lenin

00:21:09.700 they haven't read any marx like they've maybe read the communist manifesto which is a pamphlet

00:21:14.240 you know uh like they it's it's so inaccurate so anyway i mean that's quite a tangent but uh

00:21:19.980 what i'm trying to say here is like we're not all evil well and and at least your ends like

00:21:27.020 your ends could coincide with our ends right and like we just have to find the right means to get

00:21:31.360 there i think i think something that does need to be kind of uh pivoted to i think uh poor pat

00:21:36.060 there poor pat is tired of our of our of our marxist rant here he said oh dear uh great show

00:21:41.760 once again which he lost me in promoting marxism sorry this isn't this isn't a necessary promotion

00:21:46.220 of marxism this is try to x to extricate what what is actually marxist versus what is

00:21:51.560 identitarian which is clearly clear and identitarianism i think we can all agree

00:21:55.940 regardless of our political backgrounds is incredibly divisive but it's racist well yeah

00:22:00.740 no it's it is it's new jim crowism it's it's absolutely evil and and it's segregation and

00:22:06.060 it's and it's apartheid and it's wrong and needs to stop i think i think that maybe one of the

00:22:11.520 ways to kind of bridge the gap here too though is that especially for anybody who's watching from

00:22:15.640 alberta i want you to imagine for a moment if somebody who who was all about you know like you

00:22:21.120 get you know you're all on the same side on this question of like oh yeah i know the government's

00:22:24.120 going to cut spending and we got to back up on our public services and that sort of thing it's

00:22:27.640 like everybody's like okay yeah everybody can be on side with that and you know what we should do 1.00

00:22:30.700 too we should get rid of the catholic school boards and there was like wait a second i really

00:22:35.720 like my publicly subsidized catholic school board those are better schools i know they're better

00:22:40.480 schools i know that because i got cousins in them that go to their i think they're at francis

00:22:44.960 Xavier in Calgary and they got a better football team and they got better students and they just

00:22:49.980 got people are they're working harder there they are and they're performing better and could you

00:22:54.640 imagine if somebody came in with that attitude it's like well that would be if you're going to

00:22:58.460 use a word like intersectional that would be like a place of opposite right like where you would

00:23:01.960 divide with that person so we're trying to do is find the opposite of that where it's like no like

00:23:06.120 you could have your Catholic school board and and you know proper public services and a more

00:23:11.080 efficient model too it's not just a cake and eat it too thing it's like no no there's a way to do

00:23:14.700 this better and that's the argument we're not argument but that's the discussion we're having

00:23:18.200 here we're trying to get find those places of intersection because if we all want this

00:23:22.800 independence thing or we at least want ottawa to get the hell out of our lives we we have to find

00:23:27.680 allies and we're not going to find allies by just rabble rousing we have to we have to reach across 0.99

00:23:32.580 the aisle and be like look you may be a godless commie but we can both agree that ottawa sucks 0.97

00:23:39.020 so how do we work together so i can go back to church and you can continue to do whatever you're 0.97

00:23:43.860 doing and and we both have a better independent tax tax rationally state that that we participate

00:23:51.500 in and we feel free in well i think one of the things that the conservatives in in canada and

00:23:55.980 also you know across north america have the real positive thing that conservatives have contributed

00:23:59.900 to the sort of the national discourse uh is this exposure of the reality that um we are far too

00:24:08.760 divided and that when you try to cancel people they don't just go away no they don't and so

00:24:14.180 you know my point is i guess you know both sides of the divide have to have to remember this because

00:24:18.980 it's not i mean right now the left is canceling people at an alarming rate far more than i think

00:24:24.420 any other any other political grouping but it hasn't always necessarily been that no there are

00:24:29.360 i mean each side of the political divide has its ways that it cancels people in fact you know i

00:24:34.180 would argue as a as a self-avowed marxist uh that the whole discussion around socialism and the way

00:24:40.960 marxists are framed for instance is a way for the right to try to cancel people so yes like there

00:24:44.960 you know again my my big criticism of jordan peterson and it's very narrow one because i like

00:24:49.320 i said there's a whole number of issues where i think he's been very helpful in the national

00:24:52.400 discourse um on compelled speech freedom of speech etc uh but the the big uh pitfall is like

00:25:00.280 you know he'll sort of tag somebody as socialist or or something and it's just this word that

00:25:05.720 people use to try to dismiss what everything else that somebody else is saying clearly i'm a

00:25:09.280 socialist according to the comments from yesterday yeah which i mean if anybody actually talks to you

00:25:13.440 for five minutes it becomes pretty clear that you are the furthest thing from socialism you know

00:25:19.320 it's like i was laughing yesterday it was wonderful i know you're probably on the floor

00:25:25.380 killing yourself so so you have to remember like you know you call somebody a socialist for instance

00:25:29.640 they don't just vanish right it's just like if you call somebody a transphobe and maybe get them

00:25:34.100 kicked off of twitter or something like that they don't vanish and so if you're trying to build a

00:25:39.100 political coalition around something that has nothing to do with socialism or you know transgender

00:25:45.740 rights or anything like that like you're trying to build a political coalition around provincial

00:25:50.000 autonomy greater provincial independence vis-a-vis the federal government and especially if British

00:25:54.900 columbia has to factor into that project well you got to contend with people like me yeah for sure

00:26:00.000 and i have to contend with people like you no absolutely so so what i love about this show so

00:26:04.560 much is like you know i mean i don't i don't know of any other show in the province that would have

00:26:08.940 somebody like me on it and this is supposed to be the big right-wing show right i mean that's

00:26:13.260 if you turn on the cbc or you listen to the ndp in alberta for instance i mean they you know they

00:26:19.880 they peg this show and they peg uh rebel media for instance is like the antichrist right yeah like

00:26:25.200 um fake news and all sorts of stuff i mean try to try to get it you've already banned this show's

00:26:30.100 been uh banned even off of youtube for a few days at one point um but the reality is like you know

00:26:35.740 we don't go away and and this is the only show that that uh will have somebody like like me on

00:26:41.240 and and and even though the viewers are decidedly conservative uh you don't see them running for

00:26:46.780 hills like they're quite happy to push back on me and and uh you know call me a long-haired hippie

00:26:52.300 and all that kind of stuff and that's fine that's just the way we communicate and talk but at the

00:26:55.580 end of the day you know we've got a project we got to um we got to figure out what we have in common

00:27:01.100 uh because we're all british columbians we're all albertans we're all westerners and and we all care

00:27:06.620 about um making sure that you know we're looked after first and that it's not essentially a foreign

00:27:13.180 entity way out in ontario uh that's calling the shots for us i was just i think just we were coming

00:27:19.100 in i was telling you you know one of the things that just grind my gears i was on my social media

00:27:23.580 feed yesterday i saw this photo of this uh you know we're talking about the fairy creek logging

00:27:28.340 dispute for instance yep so you know driving through basically victoria up towards north

00:27:33.160 island i suspect there was this picture of this logging truck and it only had space to carry this

00:27:37.880 one log because it was this old growth tree that put on like i wish i could find the photo because

00:27:42.500 the size of it was just enormous so big that people were stopping the truck on the side of

00:27:46.140 the you know from the side of the road to take a look at this thing and people were kind of mourning

00:27:48.720 it uh the and it's so funny because the comments in the in the feed were like wow that tree must

00:27:53.540 have been like 100 200 years old and i'm just laughing there's 200 year old trees in my

00:27:57.000 backyard that are toothpicks compared to this thing like it was a 1300 year old tree and so

00:28:02.340 you can have two different approaches to this most people especially down in the in the lower

00:28:06.680 mainland the island look at it they have sort of an environmentalist bent they'll look at it with

00:28:10.280 real sadness like you know we cut down this 13 year old icon kind of thing I'm a bit sad about

00:28:14.940 that too because there really isn't a need for it but what really grinds my gears is that there's

00:28:20.760 a pretty good chance that that tree isn't even getting milled in BC it's probably putting they're

00:28:26.680 probably putting it on a boat and send it over to China where all the super mills are and it just

00:28:31.340 reminded me of I think it was back in 2006 when I first went to go work for the BC Federation of

00:28:35.920 labor, just as a, like a junior staff person. And I accompanied the secretary treasurer to North

00:28:41.460 Island one day, uh, just to go speak at some, some rally that was being put on by laid off

00:28:47.260 sawmill workers. Uh, and, and a lot of these guys were like, you know, third, fourth generation

00:28:52.080 mill workers. They'd been on the, some of them had never been off the Island, right? I mean,

00:28:55.300 there's people on the Island like that. And they'd been laid off for the first time in four

00:28:59.720 generations. And the reason that they'd been told they'd been laid off was that there wasn't enough

00:29:03.040 fiber how often have we heard that before right mills knows we can't get enough fiber can't get

00:29:06.700 enough fiber so we're speaking at this little town hall kind of thing and one of the mill workers

00:29:12.360 comes up and whispers in my ear says you know can you guys get out of bed early enough to join us

00:29:16.060 out on a on a roadblock we're going to set up at 4 30 tomorrow morning i said well you know i'll

00:29:21.100 check i'll check with the person i'm i'm helping out here but yeah we can probably be there we

00:29:25.400 didn't really know what it was about so anyway we get it long story short we get up the next morning

00:29:28.980 And we're out on this gravel road, and there's probably 50, 60 of these mill workers standing.

00:29:34.240 They're trying to block logging trucks that they're driving past them, going right past the mill to the dry dock.

00:29:40.760 We counted 42 logging trucks full of wood, and the logging trucks were owned by the mill that had laid off all these guys.

00:29:50.760 And they were shipping that stuff straight to China.

00:29:53.000 And they were doing so, trying to get it done in the dead of the night so the mill workers didn't see it

00:29:56.720 because the day before they told them they'd been laid off

00:29:58.560 because there wasn't enough fiber.

00:30:00.800 That should be illegal.

00:30:02.360 I mean, that's all of the value.

00:30:04.240 It doesn't matter whether you think we should be cutting trees or not.

00:30:07.600 All of the value from that wood should be generated here. 0.99

00:30:11.420 It shouldn't be generated in China.

00:30:12.740 It shouldn't be generated in the U.S.

00:30:14.900 So that's what drives me crazy is that there's no,

00:30:18.580 and this is what, you know, this is like sort of the provincial identity

00:30:21.980 identity and plan that we lack in BC is what I what I like so much about our friends in Alberta

00:30:27.120 that they they don't really get confused about that stuff as much no no I think they understand

00:30:31.960 exactly what they're trying to build and what they're trying to do and they understand that

00:30:36.480 without without what God gave them underneath their two feet and the soil there you know Alberta

00:30:41.680 couldn't be the place that it is today it's what built their highways has built their schools it's

00:30:45.740 what gave them a robust economy ever since 2014 things have been a little bit rougher but

00:30:49.860 But ultimately, even I think Notley understood that this was going to be Alberta first to a certain extent.

00:30:58.020 She was pivoting towards big oil, away from small oil, smaller producers.

00:31:02.160 But nonetheless, it was not a compromise in her mind.

00:31:05.740 She knew that she needed to get Alberta moving.

00:31:08.900 And I think that's kind of even where Kenny has kind of dropped the ball lately is he doesn't have that vision for Alberta.

00:31:16.320 He had a vision for himself, for his party, and then for Alberta.

00:31:19.840 Then COVID happened, and now he's really lost.

00:31:23.000 He's really lost, and he doesn't know what to do

00:31:25.480 because he always had his federal aspirations,

00:31:28.500 and he's a federalist.

00:31:30.220 He's not a sovereignist.

00:31:31.740 And I think Notley was actually, because she was so alone out there,

00:31:35.720 she was a bit of a sovereignist in the sense of she just knew

00:31:38.800 she had no one to rely on but herself.

00:31:40.700 She just had to do it herself or else she was doing it.

00:31:42.760 I'm a big fan of Notley,

00:31:43.840 And I know that probably grates a lot of viewers quite a bit here.

00:31:47.340 But I can assure you it grates people on the left just as much here in B.C.

00:31:51.980 Let's get you some water there.

00:31:53.220 Oh, thanks.

00:31:53.700 In your beautiful Western Standard mug, which I understand are on sale somewhere.

00:31:57.340 Yeah, right.

00:31:58.660 Or should be.

00:31:59.260 No, they should be on sale.

00:32:00.760 I made these, not myself, but I paid someone to make them.

00:32:03.140 Oh, good.

00:32:03.480 Because they didn't have any swag.

00:32:05.020 I'm going to give that back to you.

00:32:05.920 Nice.

00:32:06.640 So let me just finish this thought. 0.62

00:32:08.800 The reason I was such a fan of Rachel Notley, I think, was when she got elected in Alberta.

00:32:13.420 First of all, it was quite historic that the NDP would get elected in Alberta.

00:32:16.000 People were pretty mad.

00:32:17.360 Yeah, a number of people were.

00:32:18.560 I actually went to Alberta for the, what do we call it?

00:32:21.540 It's not a coronation, but basically the coronation.

00:32:23.700 And I went there because it seemed to be such a historic event for me.

00:32:27.180 But I also understood something that I think a lot of new Democrats in B.C. didn't understand,

00:32:31.080 which was why they won the election back in, what was it, 2015?

00:32:37.400 The reason they won the election wasn't because they were running around doing what they did

00:32:41.480 when they lost the next election, which was calling everybody racist 0.95

00:32:44.640 and going through sort of the same diversity garbage 0.95

00:32:47.420 that our provincial government in B.C. is currently engaging in. 0.93

00:32:50.940 They won the election, I thought, because they campaigned amongst working people

00:32:55.620 and they would get up early in the morning, 4.30, whatever,

00:32:59.020 and they would go leaflet the bus lines of people going out to the oil fields.

00:33:04.680 And the message they were delivering to working folks was,

00:33:08.000 we have to take greater control over our own resources yeah we need to build refineries

00:33:14.980 it was an old ccf message it wasn't anti-development it was rooted fully in the

00:33:21.740 understanding of how the economy works in that it's not just turtles all the way down service

00:33:26.340 sector service sector service sector it's like there has to be a a fundamental basis from which

00:33:31.320 wealth is derived and then all the service sector jobs can be generated it was this understanding

00:33:37.360 that you know that core resource is what has always driven this economy and if we're ever

00:33:42.440 going to get out of it we have to make sure that like if we're ever going to diversify so that

00:33:45.660 we're not so reliant on a fossil fuel we have to make sure that we're the ones deriving the benefit

00:33:49.700 from that fossil fuel first so we can't just be shipping the product out raw well that message

00:33:53.660 resonated with working folks because you know you can be working in the oil fields and i got family

00:33:57.980 members that work in the oil fields and it's not that they're just like 100 pro pipeline pro pipeline

00:34:05.120 they want to make sure that that pipeline is going to a refinery that's on our soil

00:34:09.740 they don't want to see that pipeline going straight to the coast on a boat and shipping it

00:34:13.540 over again to china where it gets refined overseas because that process is what generates all the

00:34:19.280 wealth right yeah and the and the problem when you allow uh total control from large corporations or

00:34:26.380 especially foreign corporations they don't care about the value benefit of where that stuff gets

00:34:32.620 milled or refined they want the cheapest process possible so if that means they got to ship it out

00:34:37.840 they don't care they they got no connection to the community and i think the ndp and and i think

00:34:42.980 the ndp in alberta sort of lost that uh certainly lost it by the next election that wasn't what

00:34:47.720 they were saying they they went totally down this diversity rabbit hole and they paid the price for

00:34:52.540 it but for a short period of time in that first term i remember writing an article about it uh

00:34:58.140 I think, what's the Alaska Highway News or whatever?

00:35:00.700 Yep.

00:35:01.380 That made the case that the reason why Notley was so important for Alberta

00:35:05.640 was that she had effectively taken the mantle of Western alienation

00:35:08.880 from Peter Lougheed, who I think was an amazing leader in Alberta,

00:35:14.680 who really understood that, you know, we're sitting on gold, literally,

00:35:20.840 and we have to save it and manage it in such a way

00:35:24.580 that Albertans benefit from it primarily. 0.98

00:35:26.700 And I think the reason why voters finally tossed the progressive conservatives out in their ass was that they lost track of that idea. 0.98

00:35:34.200 And they just sort of did the same thing that politicians in B.C. have been doing when the bottom fell out of forestry. 0.99

00:35:39.980 They allow all of that manufacturing basis to leave the province, and the wealth goes with it.

00:35:46.280 And to the tune in British Columbia, over 40,000 lost jobs during the B.C. liberal tenure in forestry alone.

00:35:52.480 yeah and and further to that i mean what's you know whether whether we're trying to to make for

00:35:58.860 a better future and whatever else but it where are those jobs going to come from like i mean

00:36:03.720 housing prices are through the roof and you can't even get a starter home where where was your job

00:36:08.160 going to come from if you've if you've eliminated those jobs that are good family supporting jobs

00:36:12.940 and you're allowing foreign interest into play play casino with your with your real estate like

00:36:17.640 this is the thing i i think that maybe maybe another way to kind of explain a little bit like

00:36:21.780 Why are some of the most frequent guests on here against Stuart Parker and Aaron Ekman?

00:36:26.760 For me, one of the reasons is that we on the right need to develop our language better around this stuff

00:36:32.180 because on the left, they already have it developed thanks to some of the historic things they've done.

00:36:37.300 And actually, if you think that that's me kind of sliding Marxism in and stuff like that,

00:36:41.560 you go ahead and think that.

00:36:43.140 But actually, somebody who doesn't even have time for capitalism, which is Alistair McIntyre,

00:36:48.080 he's a virtue ethicist.

00:36:49.380 Go look him up, Alistair McIntyre.

00:36:51.000 he explains in no uncertain terms that without the language that we get out of the late 19th

00:36:55.700 century from thinkers like marx and others who who give us the language to talk about why

00:37:00.400 you don't feel as connected making a widget as you would carving a boat out of wood or you know

00:37:06.880 making a cathedral by laying stone on stone with your own two hands it's called the alienation of

00:37:12.280 labor and alienation of what of what you're creating he says that those that language is

00:37:16.720 extremely important and so what we're living through right now i mean we're living through 0.91

00:37:19.560 If you're a Trump fan, you actually need this language to understand what happened with Trump because there was an alienation of the voters to the point where they voted for a crazy guy from reality TV who lives in a gold palace at the top of a hotel he built pulling all sorts of illegal crap off.

00:37:37.120 Like, that's the man who became the president of the United States. 0.90

00:37:40.380 I'm a big fan.

00:37:41.120 His sticker is on my computer over here.

00:37:42.880 Hey, even the communists would have voted for Trump.

00:37:44.520 Exactly.

00:37:45.300 And I predicted his win big time.

00:37:48.540 Yeah, me too.

00:37:49.180 and the steel workers union was out there like we can get into all that later but the point is

00:37:52.640 that like alienation as a concept only got popularized thanks to in many respects the

00:37:57.580 marxian discussion and we and we use the word western alienation all the time if we're going

00:38:03.760 to be sovereignness or at least get a better deal out of ottawa or make a better canada we need to

00:38:08.340 be honest about where the problem is and that's what this language is for we start with the

00:38:12.240 language that'll help us describe the problem because you can't fix a problem without knowing

00:38:15.880 what the problem is and then we can start discussing the means to that end we don't agree

00:38:20.000 on a lot of things including taxation including you know uh maybe social social programming as

00:38:25.560 well as as well as where does social conservatism fit in at all there's a lot of places we disagree

00:38:29.620 but but we both agree that what we're getting out of ottawa what we're getting even out of our

00:38:33.680 provincial capitals is garbage and it needs to stop well we need to change it and we both recognize

00:38:38.600 that you know we live down the road from each other in the same town and we've got some shared 0.97

00:38:41.780 interest despite our divergent political views and uh and i think you know this has been so

00:38:49.300 surprising to me because i grew up in a milieu that sort of cast conservatives in such a uh poor

00:38:56.560 light and so i for so many years money grabbers yeah and and look like i'm just as uh responsible

00:39:02.800 as anybody else on the left for falling into this you know black and white divide uh and what i've

00:39:10.060 sort of learned as i've got a bit older is you know you have to actually work with people that

00:39:14.100 you disagree with and just because you defeat them on twitter doesn't mean they disappear

00:39:17.700 no no or cancel them or take them off youtube because we were taken off youtube for a while

00:39:22.260 it wasn't my show's fault no offense to the other guy but uh that was that was don't let that out

00:39:26.620 of the bag i mean somebody should put on your resume i'd be taking credit oh okay you're not

00:39:29.840 so i got canceled and no the whole western channel got canceled and it wasn't even his

00:39:34.860 fault it was his guest who oh whatever so ultima wizard uh wow that's a great name uh ultima wizard

00:39:41.860 yeah i hope i like that i like the pyramid she has as her thing too well i hope ultima i i mean

00:39:46.640 i'm a gamer so i hope that's a call back to the to the old pc game but uh anyway did the ndp make

00:39:51.620 good on their promises after they got elected regarding refining oil no and i think that's

00:39:55.880 why they weren't elected uh for a second time um the point that i was trying to make earlier and

00:40:00.940 I'm glad you pointed this out,

00:40:02.420 was that that was the program on which I think they actually did get elected.

00:40:06.420 Some people will say that the Albertans were voting out

00:40:09.800 the Progressive Conservative Party, which is true.

00:40:11.900 I don't dispute that.

00:40:13.160 Also, the right was divided.

00:40:14.480 The UCP hadn't been created yet, so there was a split in the vote.

00:40:17.260 But the NDP is still polling at about 33% of the electorate.

00:40:21.460 They're never not going to be the opposition.

00:40:23.700 Not anymore, no.

00:40:24.580 I mean, there was a time when I think they were like a third.

00:40:26.720 Well, no, I mean, they've always kind of been second fiddle in Alberta

00:40:29.600 because of this that's i mean that's the homeland of the ccf really i mean that's where the ccf was

00:40:33.300 founded um but the ndp is not the ccf no right not even close uh and uh i mean here's here's again

00:40:41.340 sort of the frustration old like amateur historians of political movements like me have

00:40:46.100 with this conservative attack on the ndp for being too marxist and stuff like the creation of the ndp

00:40:51.080 in what was it 1952 was literally 62 no i was in the 50s was in the 50s i'm pretty sure it was yeah

00:40:58.320 because it was right around the same time

00:41:00.280 that the Canadian Labour Congress was created

00:41:02.680 because there was this epic battle prior to the 1950s

00:41:07.380 between communists and social democrats in the CCF

00:41:10.240 that played itself out in the labour movement.

00:41:13.320 And the creation of the NDP was sort of the final nail in the coffin

00:41:16.620 of the communists who had any influence in the labour movement

00:41:19.660 and it was this merger of the CCF

00:41:22.080 which was the social democratic tradition

00:41:23.840 which is pretty much just the same as liberal ideology.

00:41:28.320 and the social democratic leadership in unions.

00:41:31.840 And this is the big lie,

00:41:34.700 or maybe it's a misunderstanding on the right,

00:41:36.920 about unions versus the NDP.

00:41:39.780 There's this belief that the NDP is controlled by unions,

00:41:43.400 and it's not true.

00:41:45.320 It's the opposite.

00:41:47.000 Unions are controlled, in my estimation, by the NDP,

00:41:49.580 and have been since the 1950s.

00:41:50.640 And social democrats.

00:41:52.100 Social democracy,

00:41:53.260 which is really just like this go-along-to-get-along ideology.

00:41:57.580 We can all be friends.

00:41:58.900 Well, it's not just that, but it's also like, Stuart actually puts it quite well.

00:42:03.280 He's right when he says, you know, if you're unhappy with the degree to which the BC Liberals or any other government will just sell our resources out without trying to derive any value from them here locally,

00:42:16.640 if you're unhappy with them, the NDP is even better at it because you don't necessarily expect that they're going to do it.

00:42:22.980 But everything that was good about the CCF in terms of their, they were never opposed to pipelines.

00:42:26.920 They were opposed to corporate ownership of pipelines, which is why I said last week when everybody was complaining that we should shut down the Line 5 Enbridge pipeline out east and the Michigan governor wants that thing shut down. 0.93

00:42:39.540 My position was shutting it down is stupid, but what's even more stupid is allowing a foreign corporation to own and operate that pipeline when it's so vital to the infrastructure of Canada. 0.97

00:42:51.440 Or a foreign government to have any influence over it. 1.00

00:42:54.160 Yeah. And I get people's mistrust of government. I share a lot of that mistrust. But the one thing that I like about government is people can control it more than they can control a corporation, especially a foreign corporation. You can vote the leadership out.

00:43:09.340 And so, I mean, it's just, it makes no sense when you see, like, I just saw a prominent member of the NDP federal cabinet, it's not really a cabinet, but the federal NDP government, sorry, party, making this statement on social media the other day that, you know, Trudeau should sell the pipeline that he-

00:43:30.820 Transmountain?

00:43:31.380 The Transmountain pipeline, yeah.

00:43:32.700 It's like, okay, so now the NDP is advocating the privatization of public-

00:43:37.040 And it's really gone backwards, haven't it?

00:43:38.860 I'm a socialist and the NDP are neoliberals.

00:43:41.920 Like, what is happening?

00:43:43.640 Like, offshore jobs.

00:43:45.740 So it just makes no sense.

00:43:47.620 Well, I mean, like, there was also Horgan, right, with his stop site C sign.

00:43:51.020 And then now he's like, oh, man, I'm going to spend three generations worth of tax dollars on site C.

00:43:56.920 It's going to be great.

00:43:58.560 Yeah, well, and look, I mean, you know my position on site C.

00:44:01.060 Oh, yeah.

00:44:01.560 Yeah.

00:44:02.280 You're more pro-site C than I am.

00:44:04.140 I'm more pro-site C than many conservatives are.

00:44:06.800 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:07.380 The rest of us are all like, man, those poor farmers.

00:44:10.600 I mean, we should go up into the hills with our 303s and sightseals, not a done deal.

00:44:15.540 And start, you know, no, it's like, it's the revolution.

00:44:18.580 You're like, no, we're going to build a dam.

00:44:20.440 It's hilarious.

00:44:22.040 But I'm the socialist.

00:44:23.740 Yeah.

00:44:24.860 So Trump will be back, someone says.

00:44:27.320 Trump will be back.

00:44:28.500 I think he's going to crown somebody else god emperor of the United States.

00:44:31.720 Well, he's gotten up there in years.

00:44:33.380 Yeah, he'll be as old as Biden was when Biden won.

00:44:36.780 yeah um but yeah so yeah i think what what will happen is he'll at the last moment he's going to

00:44:42.880 pull the rug out and he'll crown uh probably the governor of florida the heir apparent yeah yeah

00:44:48.500 he's popular he is i mean he's the only person doing anything right it's just like we don't do

00:44:53.380 fauciism we're just gonna roll coal and like i mean you want to wear a mask you wear a mask get

00:44:57.640 the hell out of the way like that's cool you go do what you want to do we're just gonna like we're

00:45:01.740 just gonna open up florida and they're doing fine yeah there isn't there aren't piles of people

00:45:05.700 at the worst of hospitals and stuff like they're just there's a lot of retirees in florida so

00:45:10.680 you'd think if there was going to be an extravagant body count it would be florida and there isn't so

00:45:15.280 ergo ipso facto clearly florida is doing something right and clearly california and new york are

00:45:20.720 doing something really wrong so yeah the challenges of california i mean i don't want to spend too

00:45:23.980 much time on american stuff but uh i mean the challenges of california they predate obviously

00:45:28.300 um covet yeah for sure but the thing with something like covet is it really exacerbates

00:45:33.980 all of the weaknesses in your economic system uh all the deficiencies in your in your program

00:45:38.380 and so i mean you're you're seeing a major exodus out of uh out of california but it's

00:45:44.240 you know it's an exodus of people who can afford to leave california it's that's true too you know

00:45:48.060 it's not necessarily so i feel sorry for you know a lot of the working folks that are there i mean

00:45:53.260 there's you know you're talking about housing yesterday like it's interesting watching people's

00:45:57.640 reaction to the proliferation of these uh tent cities that are starting to crop up everywhere

00:46:03.640 Like, yeah, this is the main issue in Victoria.

00:46:05.740 If you follow Victoria, municipal politics is they're just fighting over.

00:46:09.220 One of our new segments should be Aaron versus Aaron.

00:46:11.420 And then it'll be you and Aaron Gunn.

00:46:13.480 And the two of you can just go at it.

00:46:15.540 Oh, I'd love to.

00:46:16.600 I don't know if we disagree on all that many things, probably fewer things than people would expect.

00:46:21.700 But the, you know, what I would disagree with sort of this, like, I take issue with this sort of stock reaction to these 10 cities where people are just like, you know, we,

00:46:32.740 even you yesterday like you were saying um you know vagrancy is illegal right vagrancy is yeah

00:46:38.240 and you're right um and so i mean the sort of the core analysis there is like it stops short of

00:46:46.900 moving these people from where they are to out of sight and and the challenge i think that

00:46:52.220 municipalities are facing is there is no out of sight like where else no no because there's too

00:46:55.700 many yeah too many people so why are there too many i mean that's the question nobody's asking

00:47:00.000 right well part you sort of nailed part of it uh yesterday part of the reason why there's so many

00:47:05.340 is that there's an equal number of people that are speculating on housing as a commodity

00:47:11.900 treating it like a commodity rather than a home yep and so you know you're going to get the house

00:47:16.940 house flippers that are going to come on and they're going to push back because that's their

00:47:19.920 seed and i and i got some sympathy for them you know i you know i graduated from high school in

00:47:23.880 96 and it was like so all through the late 90s and into the early 2000s you know a lot of my

00:47:30.160 friends that I you know my cohort coming out of high school I noticed that they were immediately

00:47:34.520 getting into this house flipping game that was kind of what you did right I never did I you know

00:47:39.340 my my wife and I we as soon as we were able to afford a house which we couldn't do until we

00:47:43.180 moved to Prince George 11 years ago we just worked to pay that place off so because we wanted you

00:47:49.060 know it was the old Tommy Douglas kind of approach to things you get the bank off your back as soon

00:47:53.540 as you can because you can't do anything until the bank's off your back right and you don't

00:47:57.860 really have freedom until you own your own house but we didn't view a house as a commodity we

00:48:03.300 and consequently you know i got all these friends at a high school for instance who

00:48:07.680 they're worth way more than i am but they're also like leverage so leveraged that you get a you get

00:48:14.020 a housing bubble pop or or something else in their life you know goes askew and they're they're in

00:48:19.240 trouble yeah like and especially if they've got a bunch of rental properties set up where that's

00:48:23.280 a main portion of their income. And suddenly they're in this situation where none of their

00:48:27.980 tenants can pay rent. And suddenly the government implements a no eviction clause. I mean, does that

00:48:33.200 sound familiar? Because that's what we're in right now. What do you do? I mean, you literally can

00:48:37.460 lose everything within the span of a few months. And of course you can. You're treating houses

00:48:42.620 like a commodity. You're treating them like gold. And there's a housing shortage across the province

00:48:48.600 And it's spreading across Canada. Yeah, it's spreading out of Vancouver and BC in particular. And it's, you know, it's an issue in Prince George. It's an issue all over the province. And it's particularly problematic for folks that are in northern climates, because like, you know, what do you do when when it gets minus 30? So we have to deal with this problem somehow. And, and yeah, sure. I mean, I can agree with people that when they say, well, you shouldn't be allowed to live in a park, for instance.

00:49:16.520 but then what like what happens after that uh and is there any way that the market just the raw

00:49:24.640 market can solve this problem well it hasn't so far no it hasn't it really hasn't and i mean

00:49:30.480 and ultimately there's now there's a back and forth on these questions because if we brought

00:49:35.200 on the fraser institute or whoever else playing the token libertarian role they would they would

00:49:39.560 tell us in no uncertain terms that a huge amount of it is regulation that is that is causing the

00:49:44.360 shortage because there is you can't build houses fast enough and the permitting process is insane

00:49:49.560 etc i i would agree on the principle that permitting and all the other make work that

00:49:56.500 surrounds housing is nonsensical and useless i i don't i don't think it actually gets us better

00:50:02.360 housing i don't because i mean we got leaky condos are after we expanded the permitting agency not

00:50:07.720 before so i mean and if these bc bungalows are worth four hundred thousand dollars but maybe they

00:50:12.840 are if the only reason they might be is that i don't even think they were that well constructed

00:50:16.220 necessarily but they were built at a different time and they have lasted this long so maybe

00:50:20.420 they'll last a bit longer um and we do know that new developments have had all sorts of problems

00:50:24.500 because of what's going on there so obviously the permitting doesn't make things better necessarily

00:50:28.100 but but i think that more importantly i think that we do have to get back maybe into more of

00:50:34.180 a homesteading mentality of or or trying to appropriate land and have people put onto the

00:50:39.660 land and have people and start to develop the outskirts of our cities or whatever and start

00:50:44.240 reappropriating land so that people can have a place to live and that they can develop it for

00:50:49.060 themselves because that's the other thing that's a big problem even the cost of even if you didn't

00:50:52.640 want to construct anything let's say for example you wanted to get a really nice yurt like i'm not

00:50:56.740 and and it's funny and they get you know he kind of laughed at that and whatever but i mean my

00:50:59.760 parents are actually thinking about doing this because of how strict the alr rules are so they

00:51:03.860 want to give my the house that we built for the farm to my brother and then maybe me and my beloved

00:51:08.380 could move into the into the garage there the uh the coach house and whatever it's a cool place

00:51:13.760 i've seen it yeah it's nice and and i mean it's no yurt but it's no yurt but this is the joke

00:51:17.780 right like i mean you can you can get a really nice yurt and and it's a lot cheaper than even

00:51:21.620 a mobile trailer and you can and so you can build this spot and then it's also mobile so now you

00:51:26.140 don't have to conform to anything and all the permitting is all gone it just the point that

00:51:30.040 i'm trying to draw here is like but that's because my parents are already property they already have

00:51:33.700 a piece of property and before the covet expansion before the increase the super inflation happened

00:51:38.600 in the last five years they got it seven years ago so it did they were ahead of the game but the

00:51:43.380 point is that that even if we were going to try and give somebody a half acre and whatever or or

00:51:49.540 not even a half acre but like you know five acres and a cow if we're going to use chesterton's

00:51:53.360 formula the point is that even if you were to go into parts of print storage where there still is

00:51:57.040 five acres to give someone to give every you know every poor displaced person some land and a place

00:52:02.420 to put their year or whatever like just the taxes on that alone are still out of out of control

00:52:07.040 everything is out of control okay the cost of construction is out of control like it doesn't

00:52:10.460 matter what it is even if you could appropriate that land like even that five acres it could be

00:52:14.920 moose pasture as we call it's pure bush like it still needs to be cleared like by hand or by truck

00:52:19.260 or whatever you got but it is it is going to be expensive and it's we don't have we don't have

00:52:25.300 the means anymore we've we've created such a seat like such a floor a high floor on on the cost of

00:52:31.780 things people can't get in yeah anywhere well you referenced the um the supply argument earlier

00:52:37.320 that you hear a lot from i mean that's the argument you hear from developers in vancouver

00:52:40.700 in particular and let's be clear i mean uh you know if the oil boys run the show in calgary

00:52:45.760 it's develop property developers and condo developers that run politics in vancouver

00:52:49.880 absolutely they do i mean it's a company town that way it's nuts um and the argument you hear

00:52:54.560 from them is this sort of pure supply argument uh and look it's not like i'm you know like i'm

00:52:59.440 marxist i'm not going to deny the reality of supply and demand uh which you know for people

00:53:04.320 that don't really understand marxists that well probably would be surprised to hear me say that

00:53:07.920 but i mean supply is a supply and there is the demand

00:53:13.520 sounds like a german marxist but fair enough marx was german he was he was yeah

00:53:19.280 but usually it's the russian accent people throw at me yeah uh soviet russia you know build house

00:53:23.760 House bills to you.

00:53:25.700 But anyway, in a place like Vancouver, the supply argument isn't the only factor.

00:53:30.620 Like it's, you know, you have a small geographic area which is, you know,

00:53:37.580 compressed between the ocean and mountains.

00:53:41.120 And then, you know, sort of bleeds out into the Fraser Valley.

00:53:43.620 And cranberry fields.

00:53:45.080 Yeah.

00:53:45.500 And so you can't build like in Calgary.

00:53:49.440 Like Calgary and Vancouver.

00:53:50.800 Calgary is just, someday it's going to be in Canmore.

00:53:53.760 Yeah, I mean, you fly over Calgary and it's just like a sea of sort of the same kind of houses for as far as the eye can see.

00:54:02.360 I remember going there in the late 90s when I first started noticing this when it was taken off.

00:54:05.940 And it looks very similar to that in like Fort St. John.

00:54:09.540 That's sort of the building model there, right?

00:54:12.280 It's a very similar style of house and it just goes on forever because you've got the land.

00:54:15.540 I mean, it's flat.

00:54:16.640 Well, Vancouver, you can't do that.

00:54:18.480 You have to build up.

00:54:19.460 It's kind of like Hong Kong in that sense.

00:54:20.720 And then you add to the equation this overwhelming amount of foreign speculation.

00:54:26.220 I mean, it's one thing that British Columbians treat property like commodities,

00:54:29.500 but then you add the fact that Vancouver is a highly sought-after location primarily because, you know,

00:54:35.240 we sparked off the speculation ourselves, which starts to get the attention of foreign speculators.

00:54:40.660 Who have way more money to blow on this.

00:54:42.980 Yeah, I mean, I worked in construction for years and used to, you know, build condos.

00:54:47.380 uh in i worked on sheet metal crews in um architectural sheet metal crews in in vancouver

00:54:52.980 and i remember you know i worked on the uh it's called king ed village for instance it's the one

00:54:58.020 place i remember i think it was in 2006 i was working on that job and it's this high-rise tower

00:55:02.440 that's um a couple of different towers it's a whole complex built right on the corner of kingsway

00:55:07.040 and uh king edward and i remember um i was in the interior probably on the seventh story or

00:55:15.440 something like that working with the foreman as I was going through the apprenticeship and I could

00:55:19.040 and the walls hadn't been put up yet but the you know the studs were up right the steel studs and

00:55:23.180 so I looked around like this place looks kind of small though the unit that we were in and and the

00:55:26.760 foreman said to me yeah it's a bachelor suite I said wow what's this place worth I wonder because

00:55:30.980 I was you know in the housing market at the time at that time I was even you know trying to think

00:55:34.840 I was naive enough to think that maybe I could have eventually afford a place in Vancouver

00:55:38.780 in those days and he said to me that's worth six it's going for 600 grand and i said for a bachelor

00:55:45.500 pad and this is in 2006 i said who in their right mind would spend over half a million dollars on a

00:55:52.320 place that doesn't even have a bedroom and he goes well uh it it was bought before we broke ground

00:55:59.380 and it was bought by the same person that bought four above and three below so they just bought

00:56:05.040 the whole you know and about the stack they just bought the stack and and they hold on to it for

00:56:10.900 the time it takes to build the place and they never live in them they just sell it they sell

00:56:16.160 it before it might sell three or four times before the place is completed and each time the price

00:56:20.360 goes up because that's how speculation works when you're flipping commodities like that and so i

00:56:25.700 thought okay here we here we are where it's in east vancouver it's not even downtown right like

00:56:30.580 it's it's in like you know the working class neighborhood in vancouver it's a bachelor pad

00:56:35.700 and the guy working on it the guy building it could never ever afford it right and so you've

00:56:43.260 got this uh you you've got this kind of convalescence of factors where there's not enough

00:56:49.220 there's not enough room to build the kind of supply required to bring the price down and

00:56:53.980 developers know that they know it yeah and they have no interest in the price going down of course

00:56:58.780 not uh and property owners like we blame everything on foreign speculators but property

00:57:04.120 owners in vancouver who live in vancouver who are multiple generation canadians have no interest in

00:57:09.560 their in their property values going down because that's their retirement nest egg right and so you

00:57:15.000 know i mean we can rail against those people i but why i mean you know they're they're only

00:57:19.780 they're only acting according to their interest they're they're not only they're only acting

00:57:23.140 according to their interest but for a working class person like you know the commenter that

00:57:27.000 sort of came after you at the end of the day yesterday, you know, saying, well, this is the

00:57:29.920 only kind of investment that some people can sort of get into. There's some truth to that in the

00:57:34.160 sense that, you know, like for the people that I went to high school with, it didn't come from rich

00:57:37.680 families. It was the only kind of way that they could sort of get themselves out of the working

00:57:43.080 class milieu, right? Like their parents would probably help them buy their first place. They 0.99

00:57:47.320 probably live in it, but then they flip it pretty quick. And then like you described yesterday,

00:57:50.820 they'd use the increase in the value to, to buy a larger place and they end up just leveraging

00:57:55.840 themselves i got family members that are leveraged you know to the extent of millions and millions of

00:58:00.700 dollars uh in this in this area and it's you expose yourself to an enormous amount of risk

00:58:05.680 but if you're from a working class background what else are you going to do like you put the

00:58:10.100 money into the stock market well you know not none of that is as good of a uh is not none of

00:58:14.860 that's as safe a bet as property it's the reason why every single pension fund in canada the

00:58:20.720 foundation of it is real estate, right? Like you look at the Toronto skyline and every high rise

00:58:26.820 there was built because of a pension fund investment, right? So it has been this real

00:58:34.300 stable sort of commodity that you can invest in and something that is at least accessible by

00:58:39.940 working class people. But we can't fool ourselves into thinking that there isn't a consequence 0.85

00:58:45.620 that we're now living through as a result of that activity. It's kind of like

00:58:49.540 you know the way to sort of describe it is it's kind of like a horse you put them in you put them

00:58:54.920 up against a barrel of oats or a trough of oats and they're going to keep eating until their

00:59:00.040 stomach explodes unless you pull them away from it and that's sort of what we're like we you know

00:59:03.900 we don't have and maybe this is a real pessimistic view of human nature but individuals are going to

00:59:09.560 do what they can to get ahead and if we don't have some kind of regulation in place which calms down

00:59:15.340 that level of speculation then we're getting we're living through the the results of that and you can

00:59:20.120 call yourself a marxist or a capitalist or or whatever it doesn't change that economic reality

00:59:25.020 right i think maybe there's a place to bridge right there it's like let's translate that into

00:59:29.600 socon speak i mean last week we had uh either last week or the week before that when stewart was on

00:59:35.820 he was making the point that of course the increased supply of something or or the increased

00:59:40.700 attractiveness the increased incentivization of something wouldn't necessarily increase the

00:59:44.660 appetite for it right that's not how things work he was being sarcastic right obviously he was

00:59:49.280 talking of course in that case about coal and oil being supplied to china and therefore people being

00:59:54.540 people pollution being put into the air because that's that's stewart's thing climate change and

00:59:59.060 that sort of stuff but the point the point that i would make here because i made it there was that

01:00:02.920 well i mean stewart you're making a very interesting argument there because we social

01:00:06.220 conservatives have been saying the exact same thing about pornography for since it was made

01:00:11.060 and and started to be mass produced and and we actually had to agree on that point that we were

01:00:16.820 making basically the exact same argument he was making the argument about supply and incentivization

01:00:21.120 and the consumption of something from a moral standpoint of ecology and i was making the exact

01:00:26.000 same point but from a moral standpoint of sexuality and people and people having integrity within their

01:00:30.940 relationships and their sexual integrity themselves and so so what's interesting here is i think there

01:00:35.740 is a way to translate this in into a more conservative way of looking at it too it's that

01:00:40.220 wouldn't you be suspicious if somebody kept buying you know if they kept buying all the things that

01:00:45.420 were chill were for children they kept buying them for themselves and of course children and

01:00:49.460 their allowances could never afford what they were willing to pay it at and wouldn't you be

01:00:53.740 suspicious if every single child's toy right kept disappearing off the shelves and nobody else was

01:01:00.140 able to pay for it and no working class people able to give their kids toys because everybody

01:01:04.400 who's taking it they can pay so much more for it so there's no fixed price of things and that's 0.99

01:01:09.440 the thing when it comes to housing I think I think you're right that there's a problem it's not just

01:01:13.260 a supply question there's also and I would also argue you're you're asking about regulation I'm

01:01:18.220 also saying that there could be there needs to be a strong moral compass around these things

01:01:21.960 I should feel honestly I should feel disgusted at myself at the idea that I would somehow own all

01:01:27.340 the houses and make everybody pay me rent that that should be a disgusting thought it should

01:01:31.720 be a disgusting thought to anyone like that's not I would should never want that I shouldn't 0.51

01:01:35.600 want all the wives in my harem i mean that was chesterton's point on that one too just as one

01:01:39.640 man shouldn't have all the all the farms for himself he shouldn't have all the wives for

01:01:43.620 himself it's the same thing i shouldn't have everybody else's woman everybody should have

01:01:47.160 their everybody should have their own beloved and if we want to go with all the orientation stuff

01:01:52.920 whomever you have as a consenting adult in your life uh but this is the same point this i'm not

01:01:58.660 libertarian i don't think anybody should own anybody well there it is but and this is just

01:02:02.460 it. But the point is that we can't have a system where nobody can get in and only the few can have

01:02:12.100 all. And that's wrong. That's fundamentally wrong. And that doesn't matter whether you're

01:02:15.480 arguing that from a Christian perspective or a Marxian perspective. We both agree that that's 0.57

01:02:18.620 wrong. The question is, how do you correct that? Yeah, I think from a theological perspective,

01:02:22.840 you can make the argument that it's wrong. I don't deal in right or wrong so much as an

01:02:28.880 atheistic uh analyzer but uh what i can tell you is that there's a consequence of doing things that

01:02:34.460 way and we're living through it so whether it's right or wrong or not there's no extremism going

01:02:38.280 on in the world or anything no one no one arming themselves and joining parties that might you know

01:02:43.140 advocate violence well i would just all i'd say is like whether property speculation is right or

01:02:47.900 wrong or not it results in what we're living through right now it's it's part of the reason

01:02:52.660 why we've got homeless camps that are getting larger and larger all over the world i mean i

01:02:57.360 remember you know i went to university in japan back in uh the late 90s and it was just sort of

01:03:03.540 going through the the cusp of a major economic transformation to more of an american style

01:03:08.660 system where previously you know throughout the 80s the 70s and the 80s what made that economy

01:03:13.260 so strong was this concept of lifetime employment so you know in japan for instance you'd go to

01:03:19.280 university you'd study like hell uh all through primary school and elementary school to get into

01:03:24.500 the right junior high school so you could get into the right high school so you could get into 0.73

01:03:27.420 the right university and if you like the rate of suicide prior to university was off the charts

01:03:33.380 because you know if you if you didn't if you didn't perform well at a very young age like you

01:03:37.520 just never got on the on the the track the right track yeah but once you got to university it was

01:03:43.660 like four years of vacation you know like you could join the professional wrestling club and

01:03:48.920 that's basically all you had to do and I remember you know because I attended Ritz and Macon

01:03:52.700 university uh i remember the first thing i saw when i showed up was like you know they had literally

01:03:57.540 had a big wrestling ring out in the courtyard and and they were really good and you could tell they

01:04:01.180 were spending a lot of time doing it culturally the idea was if you had studied that hard to get

01:04:06.100 into university uh you'd already demonstrated that you could deal with the rigors university

01:04:10.900 it was the only four years in your life uh where you sort of got to mess around without any

01:04:15.660 consequence because the idea was you were going to get a job um with a company who was going to

01:04:21.420 employ you for your whole life and they were going to train you specifically on that job

01:04:24.600 and by the time I left Japan and came back around 2000 that was all being pulled apart and it was

01:04:31.580 very disorienting for the for for Japanese folks and when I went back just before the Fukushima

01:04:38.660 disaster actually I went back for a few weeks that was all start you could see the effects of

01:04:44.080 that pulling apart where there was no guarantee of lifetime employment anymore like if you got

01:04:48.300 laid off in the 90s in japan uh the company would bend over backwards to find another job for you

01:04:53.600 like there was this idea that you know there was this responsibility uh not just for the employees

01:04:59.380 but for society and if you just started laying people off there were social consequences that

01:05:02.940 everybody was going to have to deal with so we had to work together to make sure that didn't happen

01:05:06.140 and it wasn't socialism i mean that was just this cultural approach to capitalism actually

01:05:10.060 but when they started to adopt this american style process where you know they don't even give you a

01:05:14.740 notice they just show up at your desk with a box and security guards and say okay out you go

01:05:18.980 um which is how we do it here right uh then you by the time i went back uh to see how things had

01:05:26.600 transpired they also like i couldn't believe it but there were big homeless camps in in the big

01:05:30.840 parks in japan it's interesting i just want to key in on that because something just kind of hit me

01:05:34.920 it's like let's talk about cancel culture for just another second here and think about it in this

01:05:38.360 sense cancel culture i mean i mean story was going on about this the other day with with it being

01:05:43.340 having been developed in hr departments and that sort of thing that that's where it actually came

01:05:46.760 from and the identitarianism around and everything else but let's imagine for a moment like even

01:05:50.400 even a couple of years back you know you yes somebody shows up with a box for you to put

01:05:55.680 your stuff from your desk or your workstation or your you know tells you to clear out your locker

01:05:59.420 like okay fine but we live in such a digitized age now that you actually do get canceled so your

01:06:04.820 passwords are revoked you're taken out of the group chats like it's like you do get disappeared

01:06:09.260 like think about that for a moment like even if even if this was the friendliest employer on earth

01:06:12.700 and you had legitimately done something wrong

01:06:14.200 or honestly, like they're out of work

01:06:15.680 and they can't employ you anymore.

01:06:17.620 That's fine, but you get disappeared.

01:06:20.140 Like they'll retain your file in HR and that's it.

01:06:22.840 Like your name is taken off the door.

01:06:25.220 Your key codes are gone.

01:06:26.400 Your FOB is taken.

01:06:27.480 Like all that stuff go.

01:06:28.660 Your company phone is taken.

01:06:30.080 People find out they've been laid off

01:06:31.060 because they can't get in that day

01:06:32.300 because their card doesn't work.

01:06:33.360 Yeah.

01:06:33.500 You know, like it's...

01:06:34.380 No, it's like, like that's like understand,

01:06:36.700 like think about that as cancel culture, right?

01:06:38.880 So you were just participating in life in general

01:06:40.660 and you had your opinions or whatever.

01:06:41.860 You were ranting about something.

01:06:42.620 who cares but then like you're just subtracted from the population like you just don't exist

01:06:47.480 anymore your facebook's gone your youtube's gone your twitter's been banned like you're gone yeah

01:06:51.300 you don't exist and people can say look i mean you know employers have a right to let people go

01:06:55.800 and and expand and contract as as the market allows or or doesn't allow and that's you know

01:07:00.940 in this economy that's absolutely true i'm not saying that it's wrong again i don't really deal

01:07:04.980 in right or wrong i'm just saying there are economic consequences to the way we do things

01:07:09.520 Especially if it's rapid and without precedence and people don't know what's coming.

01:07:13.380 Yeah. And the big, the frustration that I share with, with, I think people on the right in regards to mainstream media is that nobody ever in mainstream media ever examines the reason why there's big tent cities growing in our parks.

01:07:27.300 They don't get into these kinds of discussions. Like, you know, yeah, we can all agree that vagrancy should be illegal and that people shouldn't be living in parks, but what are we going to do about it?

01:07:36.500 Are we just like, I mean, you know, I, I, uh, when I first started going to university

01:07:40.340 in Canada, I did so in Kelowna.

01:07:42.640 Um, and it, it, Kelowna in many ways is kind of like Prince George in the sense that there's

01:07:48.100 this traditional downtown core, uh, and nobody's there.

01:07:52.640 Kelowna is a little different now than it was, uh, when I, you know, 20 years ago when

01:07:57.120 I was going to university there, but, um, they've, they've been able to get a bit more

01:08:00.260 activity in the downtown core, but Prince George, I mean, you walk downtown Prince George,

01:08:03.760 it's like tumbleweed right um and you know there's reasons why that is uh and it's it's how we you

01:08:13.480 know it's how we build the cities it's how we you know the big built out we didn't build up yeah and

01:08:17.820 so you know you can see downtown there it is right downtown but can you see anybody uh you can see a

01:08:25.480 few cars driving around in the background there but uh you know not a lot of people walking around

01:08:28.860 right and it's and there's reasons for that and so you know when when poverty starts sort of

01:08:35.480 occupying the empty spaces the the news reports we hear about it are simply well you know the

01:08:43.660 police moved in they started ripping up the camps nobody ever talks about why those people are there

01:08:47.260 or where they're going to go or what we're you know what we're going to do about it right and

01:08:51.420 in some respects this is the discussion they're having in victoria right now as the victoria

01:08:56.180 city council is is trying desperately to like try to find some solution outside of just kicking

01:09:01.480 these people out and then there's the there's sort of the property crowd um who are just angry that

01:09:08.280 they can't go to the park without tripping over a tent right i understand the frustration but

01:09:12.480 uh like it's your community i'm not saying that you have to come up with a solution but

01:09:18.160 at least we have like where are we going to have the conversation about why people are in that

01:09:22.800 situation and what and and how they got there and whether whether any of the economic policies that

01:09:28.000 we implement put them there uh and whether it's even possible for them to get out of that situation

01:09:32.800 and if you kick them out of there well where the hell are they going to go right i want to cue in

01:09:36.820 on this point of cultural approach to capitalism there is and and actually even even stewart for

01:09:42.080 all of his left-wing ideas like he has to he has to you know admit this about it as well and he did

01:09:47.880 so he did so on this show not that long ago of that we you know there is a there used to be an

01:09:54.440 understanding that capitalists would have to bail themselves out you know there used to be an

01:09:58.440 understanding too that oligarchs would do their bit there was an understanding i mean like used

01:10:02.300 to be well and this is just it like i mean carnegie hall was built by the guy who arrived here with

01:10:06.880 five dollars in his pocket you know and he and he built american steel u.s steel and he and he

01:10:13.840 built carnegie hall and his wife you know made a lot of people to build it well there you go

01:10:18.220 that's well and that's fine i mean that's good he paid people i mean it but this is the way we

01:10:22.340 used to do this we used to have this kind of understanding that the oligarchs would contribute

01:10:27.140 uh that's going away and a lot of that's because of foreign interests because they don't live

01:10:31.720 where they work eat sleep and you don't you can't march on a factory owner's house

01:10:35.820 when they don't live there right so that's a problem um and then the other half of that i

01:10:40.920 would say is that i mean it is it is about it is about what's a reasonable profit or what's a

01:10:46.000 reasonable thing instead of just the bottom line and if the bottom line is people's lives which is

01:10:50.280 what often gets you know often happens it's it's i think there i think that needs to be changed i

01:10:55.880 think that needs to be made different how we do that exactly i don't know i i still believe in a

01:11:00.420 strong moral conscience sort of answer that question because i think all the regulations

01:11:03.300 we've done they used to say that for i think in forestry the old rule was every two million dollars

01:11:07.820 of profit back in like the season stuff was going to cost a life or two that's the way it was it was

01:11:13.800 going to cost it on the road it's going to cost it in the mill someone's going to get ripped up in

01:11:16.640 the mill someone's get ripped up in a machine it didn't matter and that was life now that was

01:11:20.440 terrible but is it any better today now that we have an entire you know work safe culture and

01:11:26.120 everything else that's around it that regulates it is is that so are less people dying but are

01:11:31.700 but less people are also employed is that helping anything i don't want people to die i'm not trying

01:11:36.660 to trade that i'm just saying if less people are still objectively employed or more people are

01:11:40.740 sucking off of the profit who are in regulation positions who will never be put at risk right

01:11:45.460 there did this do any better for the worker on the ground right well look i mean one of the one of 0.95

01:11:50.740 the biggest uh controversial issues that would come up on the floor of every bc federation of

01:11:56.100 labor convention would be over the question of wcb or work safe um because literally there were

01:12:02.260 there were delegates on the floor voting delegates who worked at work safe because the work safe

01:12:07.220 employees are unionized and so they would tend to be rather defensive of the organization

01:12:12.260 but the rest of the working class on the floor unionized working class on the floor

01:12:16.020 were all you know like viciously angry and dissatisfied with work safe bc because you know

01:12:23.140 it's it's it's a public entity employers are are paying premiums into it uh by law uh but the

01:12:30.020 The reality of WorkSafe and the creation of the Workers' Compensation Board was that it pulled away from workers the ability, the legal right to sue employers for negligence.

01:12:39.160 So it's this huge historic compromise that actually many of us would argue that it worked in favor of employers in the sense that, yeah, they had to pay insurance premiums, but it's more of insurance against getting sued because their employees don't have the legal right in British Columbia to sue.

01:12:56.080 if you get injured or if you're working at the sawmill and you you know you get your arm cut off

01:13:00.140 you can't sue your employer for negligence like you can in many jurisdictions in the u.s for

01:13:04.180 instance for huge sums of money you have to go through this wcb process uh you have to go through

01:13:09.640 the basically like the tribunal that sounds like no fault uh well it's except that they do assign

01:13:16.180 fault i mean it's slightly different but but yeah it's uh and then of course you know work safe would

01:13:22.260 build up these huge surpluses of money because they weren't paying out claims to workers

01:13:26.820 uh from the money that was all that they'd already collected and what would they do with

01:13:31.160 that surplus well under the bc liberal regime they would vote to like give that money back to

01:13:35.580 employers uh rather than holding it uh for workers for things like retraining and trying to make sure

01:13:41.180 that they don't end up pulling down on more medical services because they can't work anymore

01:13:45.200 sounds like aaron o'toole's carbon tax plan you know what blew my mind just i mean i know this

01:13:49.800 is a total non sequitur you know what blew my mind over the weekend what aaron o'toole is two

01:13:54.200 years younger than justin trudeau did you know this you mean the big bald baby guy is two years

01:13:58.920 younger than the guy with good hair he's only five years older than i am wow this did you know this

01:14:03.800 no the guy looks like he's in his 60s yeah he does look old i mean i hate to descend into like

01:14:08.840 just crass um you know gossip here but but i mean we used to say angry tom i mean and tom still

01:14:14.460 looks angry remember when tom was trying to smile like he'd like almost like had his eyebrows taped

01:14:18.600 up during those debates in 2015. Mulcair. Yeah. It just, it was bad. I ranked him when he was

01:14:25.500 running for leader of the NDP, I ranked him eight out of eight candidates on the ballot. I just

01:14:31.620 wasn't impressed with him at all from the beginning. He was a great opposition leader.

01:14:35.720 Well, I mean, flash forward to when, to that convention in Edmonton that did him in.

01:14:43.080 Public execution.

01:14:43.960 Oh, it was brilliant. I voted to keep him. I mean, he had really won me over as an opposition leader. He was very effective and I think really helped to sort of strike this balance between an understanding of how our economy worked, kind of like Rachel Notley does, comparative to all other New Democrats is the other reason that I'm a big fan of Rachel Notley, at least, you know, like 2015, 2016 era Rachel Notley, was that she had adopted the mantle of Western alienation for Peter Lougheed, but also understood that we actually need pipelines.

01:15:13.800 and still understands that and still understands the basis of the Albertan economy.

01:15:17.500 And she got up at that convention and chastised the rest of the federal party

01:15:21.800 for its ridiculous position on pipelines.

01:15:24.740 Because, you know, like the Naomi Clyden and Abby Lewis crowd 0.52

01:15:27.560 was coming in with the Leap Manifesto nonsense.

01:15:30.320 Like this idea that the NDP should literally leap off a cliff

01:15:34.120 and suddenly everybody's going to vote for us.

01:15:36.500 Because the Great Leap Forward worked so well in that certain milieu

01:15:41.080 over on the far west of the Pacific there.

01:15:44.280 Yeah, and I recognize you're probably trying to bait me to defend it,

01:15:46.700 but I won't because I don't think it worked.

01:15:48.860 I want you to debate it right now.

01:15:50.460 I would if I believed in it.

01:15:52.020 Right now.

01:15:52.940 This is the other thing about Marxists is we're more critical of ourselves

01:15:56.000 than the right could ever be, if real Marxists.

01:16:00.920 Oh, fair enough.

01:16:01.800 But, yeah, Mulcair was, I mean, there is a core group of folks

01:16:06.440 within the NDP that really think that he needs to come back.

01:16:10.520 And as someone who, like I said, ranked him eighth out of eight candidates back when he was first running,

01:16:15.560 I have to agree that the NDP, I think, would be doing quite a bit better if they had somebody like Mulcair.

01:16:20.600 I think Mulcair would also, you know, because, you know, he comes from Quebec and Quebec has got a far more sane approach

01:16:27.760 to all this diversity stuff that is plaguing governments all over Canada right now.

01:16:33.460 I think Mulcair would have been able to demonstrate a lot more sanity on these kind of questions.

01:16:37.440 It was really sad.

01:16:38.660 Like, again, no sympathies for the NDP on a lot of questions here.

01:16:42.460 But watching Mulcair get all but publicly executed, thank you for your time.

01:16:47.520 Like, it just – that was brutal.

01:16:50.540 Oh, and the funny thing is, like, now Avi Lewis – I don't know if people – let me just adjust these headphones here.

01:16:57.700 Avi Lewis, who – I don't know what his – like, his claim to fame is that he was – he's the son of Stephen Lewis, right, who is, like, NDP royalty.

01:17:06.680 Oh.

01:17:07.440 I don't know who that is.

01:17:08.740 Yeah, Stephen, like he, yeah, I mean, he was in,

01:17:11.460 I'm not going to give you a history.

01:17:12.780 Like when the Georgia Straight criticized the movie I was in,

01:17:15.060 I was like, do people read that?

01:17:16.140 Do people care what the Georgia Straight says?

01:17:17.700 I don't know.

01:17:18.220 Yeah, this is this thing.

01:17:19.140 Like aside, Stephen Lewis is probably, like,

01:17:22.660 in terms of NDP royalties, probably number two to Tommy Douglas.

01:17:26.720 Like he's, like, oh, they revere him that much.

01:17:29.160 Okay.

01:17:29.560 He's still alive, although barely.

01:17:30.920 I heard he's quite ill at the moment.

01:17:32.400 But I've seen him speak a couple of times.

01:17:34.260 everybody just thinks he's the like god's gift to oratory and you know i mean he could speak

01:17:41.200 but i always you prefer that guy from the states that you're at with the steel workers union thing

01:17:46.520 that guy big guy oh reverend barbara reverend barbara yeah reverend barbara yeah no he's cool

01:17:50.980 now that's a speaker uh steven lewis i mean like he's just kind of you know like np pablum i mean

01:17:56.580 he's not even really that progressive from my perspective and so yeah i mean people might have a

01:18:02.780 a nice aesthetic to their, to their oratory, to their delivery,

01:18:06.340 but it kind of matters what they say and what they do, you know,

01:18:09.180 which has always been my criticism of Jagmeet Singh is that I don't even

01:18:13.480 think he's really good at taking pictures.

01:18:14.880 He's good. He's a good looking man. He dresses nice. You know,

01:18:18.060 and I, I happen to think that people should dress up a bit more. I mean,

01:18:20.720 I, you know, I mean, you're able to pull off the plaid shirt,

01:18:22.740 but not everybody can. And I, you know,

01:18:24.260 I think you dress in accordance with the respect you have.

01:18:26.980 I just like to make people think that they're watching the exact same episode

01:18:29.760 over and over again

01:18:30.640 because it just never changes.

01:18:33.180 Just streaming constantly

01:18:34.360 whenever it stops.

01:18:34.900 Yeah, this is what I live in.

01:18:36.080 You've been in the same show

01:18:36.860 for three months.

01:18:38.340 Under the table.

01:18:39.300 Under the table.

01:18:40.900 No, so it's...

01:18:42.180 Anyway, Abby Lewis,

01:18:43.580 who's the son of this guy

01:18:44.640 and the husband of Naomi Klein,

01:18:47.420 who many people

01:18:47.940 probably do recognize,

01:18:49.340 she became famous 0.80

01:18:50.480 when she wrote that book

01:18:51.260 telling everybody

01:18:51.760 to take the logos

01:18:52.440 off of their clothes.

01:18:53.640 Yeah, I have it on my shelf.

01:18:55.080 No logo?

01:18:55.720 I've never read it.

01:18:56.980 No, neither did I.

01:18:57.820 I mean, it's that coffee book

01:18:58.720 nobody read,

01:18:59.220 like jared diamond well i think yeah i mean i didn't i didn't feel like i needed to read a

01:19:03.860 whole book on you know like how to how to take a sewing pick or whatever and take the logos off

01:19:10.300 your clothes i'm sure there was more to it but anyway i mean she's quite a cultural force within

01:19:14.700 the left milieu anyway long story short this guy has announced his uh intention to run in

01:19:19.880 one of the west vancouver ridings west vancouver sea to sky um which is like it's not a green

01:19:25.180 riding provincially right now no it's uh it's a bc liberal oh really oh yeah no it's the first

01:19:30.620 channel get elected oh she's on the island oh right yeah this is west vancouver so she's uh

01:19:34.700 this is like i think this is the same riding where what's her name from huawei is hiding out in her

01:19:39.640 mansion under house arrest really i thought she was in richmond uh she might be but i think she's

01:19:45.180 got a few matches i don't know yeah i mean i kind of talk about nature yeah but my point is it's

01:19:49.300 like like aside from you know vancouver point gray where our attorney general is and um uh who

01:19:56.780 defeat was christy clark's riding and that oak bay gordon head where uh the greens did have that

01:20:01.840 riding with andrew weaver uh it's like the richest riding in the province and so you know you've got

01:20:07.300 this guy who is sort of self-described as the the far left wing of the federal ndp who's going to

01:20:13.260 run in like the most affluent riding in british columbia yeah and stewart's take on it was you

01:20:18.320 know i think the was a good take and it was kind of courageous that he took it he said like

01:20:22.460 how how is this guy gonna he's supposed to be like a star candy how the hell is he gonna win

01:20:27.040 in this really affluent riding where the ndp generally pulls it like fourth or third right

01:20:31.980 below the greens below the like everybody and i was looking at the numbers and i you know i kind

01:20:38.140 of disagree with steward i think i think this guy's actually got a chance in that riding but

01:20:42.080 Nothing better summarizes, if he wins, what the NDP has become.

01:20:48.180 Yeah, like being a California Democrat.

01:20:50.860 They cannot get elected to save their life in the interior,

01:20:53.260 in working-class areas in the interior.

01:20:54.880 Yeah.

01:20:55.400 But they can get elected in the richest ridings.

01:20:57.240 Like, it is unbelievable to me that the Attorney General,

01:21:00.080 who is considered to be, like, one of the most progressive people

01:21:02.800 in the NDP cabinet in B.C., you know, is in the UBC riding, right?

01:21:10.420 We are arrogantly confident.

01:21:12.460 I love that video.

01:21:13.480 That was a great video.

01:21:15.160 I loved that.

01:21:16.200 We're arrogant in our confidence.

01:21:17.120 We're arrogant in our confidence.

01:21:18.960 That was amazing.

01:21:20.140 We're going to defeat the U.S. Senate. 0.95

01:21:22.020 You mean the thing that started dropping bombs on Vietnam?

01:21:26.100 You're going to beat the U.S. Senate?

01:21:28.380 I don't think so, buddy.

01:21:30.540 I think he's got a chance to win there. 0.98

01:21:33.940 And I think that should be a message to any working class voter

01:21:38.600 in the in the province of sort of who the NDP represents right and it really is this real rich

01:21:44.160 uh money mansioned class that um like mansions yeah i mean they they're actually like they would

01:21:51.720 otherwise vote for the bc liberals but they they get the sense that they can probably get more

01:21:54.840 accomplished with an NDP government in bc but i think this is actually that's an interesting point

01:21:58.660 to make about the about the united states like i mean that was kind of the argument made by

01:22:03.240 everybody uh when it came to the last election in 2020 is that with with the democrats they felt

01:22:08.660 like they might actually at least get some things done that's ultimately i don't i i still have my

01:22:12.360 questions around what there's more well the democrat party in the u.s now has more institutional

01:22:15.780 investors uh than the republicans do yeah like big like you know bear stearns like you know those

01:22:21.180 big outfits well i mean i mean obama bought bad loyalty when he bailed them out right so oh yeah

01:22:26.900 2008 that was you know the socialization of capitalist debt i mean that was you know like

01:22:32.440 that's very left-wing that's a very good left-wing thing to do well it was except for workers it was

01:22:37.320 rugged capitalism exactly like pull yourself up by your bootstraps well we'll pull them up for them

01:22:41.880 yeah go find yourself a job but trillions of dollars to the money class that got us into

01:22:45.940 this mess that's why you saw all these signs floating around uh wall street at that time

01:22:50.620 saying jump you effers you know yeah yeah because because working people understood that these are

01:22:56.900 the guys that got us into this mess and the powers that be are it doesn't matter if they're

01:23:00.300 democrat or republican they're just all too happy to well if you put a big pile of money underneath

01:23:03.960 a tall skyscraper then you jump but you just go into the money yeah that's right yeah it just

01:23:10.460 unless all your holdings were a bitcoin and then there ain't much to yeah no they're gonna bounce

01:23:14.620 off pretty hard off those modems i i i think that was kind of funny the other day somebody like

01:23:19.700 yesterday somebody's like well you know investing it i remember the other thing they were investing

01:23:23.200 in they were talking about crypto i'm like oh man like that's just another bubble like don't do that

01:23:29.200 yeah although look i i'm i'm way more sympathetic to it than you are which is funny like you'd think

01:23:33.620 that the the free market guy would be way more into crypto than i believe in free market things

01:23:38.160 i can hold okay i like guns and tobacco and livestock and cars okay there's way there's way

01:23:44.880 more fiat currency like there's way more money than there is uh printed uh representation of

01:23:50.180 in the u.s like that's true you know like when like at the beginning of the pandemic when trump

01:23:56.180 and then followed by the democrats after he lost started funneling money to to the you know the

01:24:01.260 biggest moneyed interest in the in the country they're not physically like carrying bills over

01:24:06.460 to them right they're literally just changing zeros on a computer um so i mean my take on

01:24:11.280 cryptocurrency is that it's i mean it really is kind of the future um and it's interesting that

01:24:17.600 china is banning it now um which a lot of people the chinese owned a lot of it well nobody owns

01:24:24.360 it it's impossible to own that's the that's the point right it's uh it doesn't exist anywhere on

01:24:30.100 a server you can save uh uh hundreds of millions of dollars on your us on a usb drive and put it

01:24:37.780 of safe or you can i mean it's it's technologically possible to save hundreds of millions of dollars

01:24:42.360 on a piece of paper that has a little qr code on it um but if you lose that i mean it's gone like

01:24:47.820 there's bearer bonds yeah it's i mean the way you know i don't want to lecture everybody in this but

01:24:53.320 like the way it works is there's all of these uh there's basically a queue like the transaction

01:24:58.580 exists between you and the person you're paying and that's it there's no intermediary right so if

01:25:02.880 If I want to pay you for whatever, say I wanted to pay for advertising on the Western Standard in Bitcoin.

01:25:10.660 They advertise Bitcoin on the Western Standard if you go on the website.

01:25:13.740 Good.

01:25:14.540 And I'll explain why in a minute.

01:25:15.880 But if I wanted to make a transaction to you, for instance, I would have a copy of your in-code,

01:25:23.300 and I've got my own personal code, and I make the transaction directly to you.

01:25:28.320 And there's computers that are owned by individual actors, which are basically the, like, they call them bit miners, right?

01:25:34.420 So you can buy one of these computers.

01:25:36.980 And it's basically the same as, like, a gaming rig.

01:25:39.700 It's got a huge graphical processing unit in it.

01:25:42.440 Yeah, we were going to put some in here.

01:25:44.260 Well, it's, I mean, it's not even...

01:25:46.080 Just wait for when His Excellency figured out that the power bill was going through.

01:25:51.120 Well, that's the thing, is that it's tough to actually make money on them because they're so power intensive.

01:25:55.000 but you know like eventually depending on how much you pay for the transaction to be processed

01:26:00.060 it'll put your transaction in a queue that just gets sent out to this decentralized network

01:26:04.360 and these computers that people privately own they will eventually get to the calculation

01:26:09.940 required which is a heavy mathematical calculation required to process that transaction to generate

01:26:14.160 the key and then once the money is gone it's gone like there's no reversal unless you convince

01:26:19.540 the person to pay it back again and the reason why governments like China are so terrified by

01:26:23.940 this stuff, is that they understand exactly the challenge it poses to national fiat currencies.

01:26:31.300 And again, I mean, the whole plan for China, and this is a multi-generational plan going

01:26:36.580 back quite a while to try to get themselves on the top of the international pile, is to

01:26:43.020 replace the US dollar as the dominant currency, because they understand the kind of international

01:26:49.200 power that you can project without firing a missile, just by having that kind of a currency

01:26:55.440 that is sort of the default. And so their game plan, they don't even hide it, their game plan

01:26:59.820 is to try to supplant the US dollar in that regard. And they're actually moving towards that

01:27:05.840 with great effect. So to the same extent that cryptocurrency challenges the dominance of the

01:27:11.740 US dollar, cryptocurrency challenges the dollar or the dominance of the Chinese yuan. And that

01:27:18.540 terrifies them because it they recognize quite rightly that if this stuff really starts to

01:27:23.120 stabilize and take off that they lose all social control that they're able to exact not only over 0.98

01:27:28.000 their own population through their stupid social credit scores and this kind of stuff uh which 0.97

01:27:33.860 reduce the number of rights you have based on how how well you've behaved like never mind the 0.99

01:27:37.560 vaccine passports that they're trying to push on us here you know in china you've got a social score

01:27:41.820 that's like attached to your id card and if your social score dips too much because you've been

01:27:46.620 critical of the government or whatever, they can remove your right to ride a plane, to get on a

01:27:50.980 high-speed train, to stay at a hotel. I mean, it's terrifying. If you start introducing

01:28:00.560 cryptocurrency that they can't track and they can't regulate it, they can't exert that kind

01:28:05.520 of control over you anymore. So for anybody that's interested in discussing independence

01:28:10.620 from a federal government,

01:28:12.520 cryptocurrency is very interesting, right?

01:28:15.980 Because it provides, libertarians love it, right?

01:28:18.220 Because it provides-

01:28:18.940 Oh, they do.

01:28:19.320 I'm very aware of that.

01:28:20.580 Yeah, yeah.

01:28:21.340 But look, I mean, so do people like me.

01:28:25.020 And I'm not talking from an investment.

01:28:28.340 I'm not conflicted on this.

01:28:29.260 I have no crypto holdings whatsoever.

01:28:31.780 But conceptually, I think for people

01:28:33.720 that are interested in independence from governments,

01:28:36.280 it's the future.

01:28:38.080 So we buy a bunch of the Bitminers

01:28:40.020 and we plug them into all of the plug-ins that people use in winter,

01:28:43.240 but it's summer, so they don't need them anymore,

01:28:45.360 and we just use the free power that's lying around in our parking lots

01:28:48.080 and seeing when somebody notices?

01:28:49.860 Well, this is going to be the challenge.

01:28:51.680 I think the new iterations of cryptocurrency,

01:28:54.760 they're going to have to use less power.

01:28:57.280 They're going to have to have a less power-intensive process

01:29:00.820 because it doesn't even really – unless you're a big player,

01:29:05.740 because there's big crypto mining farms now that if you're just somebody

01:29:09.940 living in the heart running a gaming computer mining bitcoin out of your basement you're not

01:29:14.440 going to make any money in fact you're probably it's probably costing you money on the on the

01:29:17.540 power consumption alone plus the cost of like the cost we'll take site c and we'll get a bunch of

01:29:22.400 computers and we'll put it in it and we'll make million that's my plan well again i i'm not

01:29:28.960 interested in like people are interested in it because they think they're going to make a lot

01:29:32.360 of money most people that start playing around with cryptocurrency lose money because it's so

01:29:36.060 volatile and it goes up and down and it's in a bit of a crash right now uh i like it because of

01:29:41.540 the uh i like i like it conceptually because of the ability to get government out of your business

01:29:45.800 in terms of what you're paying for what you're buying i guess i guess i have to i have to redact

01:29:49.520 some of what i said there because i ultimately i mean do i think it's another bubble of course i

01:29:53.500 think it's another bubble and i do have a bubble every day well it is it's true and i i wonder i

01:29:57.220 do legitimately wonder what happens when somebody finally fires that emp over us and all of a sudden

01:30:01.700 and all the computers don't work anymore.

01:30:03.320 It would have the same effect on fiat currency.

01:30:05.540 Well, no, that's true.

01:30:06.340 You're right, because a lot of it is just data.

01:30:08.840 It's not real.

01:30:10.380 And so there's an entirely other discussion.

01:30:12.000 But at the same time, as a disrupting force,

01:30:14.360 I can sympathize with you on this count.

01:30:16.220 I don't want to put my life savings into crypto.

01:30:18.980 Or should you?

01:30:19.540 But I can sympathize with you there,

01:30:22.380 because when GameStop happened back in January,

01:30:25.460 that was hilarious.

01:30:26.560 That was awesome.

01:30:27.340 I was cheering those guys on.

01:30:28.900 Oh, hold, hold.

01:30:31.700 hold the line

01:30:33.020 little crypto joke

01:30:36.480 you wouldn't get it

01:30:37.040 I wouldn't

01:30:37.600 I don't know what that means

01:30:38.700 I don't understand

01:30:40.060 HODL

01:30:40.780 it means hold

01:30:41.520 but it was

01:30:42.020 it's based on a typo

01:30:43.780 on the internet

01:30:44.280 it's kind of like

01:30:44.860 Covfefe

01:30:45.800 yeah

01:30:46.260 well

01:30:46.700 I understand Covfefe

01:30:48.520 was like a

01:30:49.260 it was like a code word

01:30:50.600 a very intentional code word

01:30:51.640 it's more like

01:30:52.780 Q was telling us

01:30:53.720 what was going to happen next

01:30:54.640 more like spelling

01:30:55.300 the T-E-H

01:30:56.420 so yeah

01:30:57.660 they were all

01:30:58.220 it's a meme

01:30:58.980 but

01:30:59.460 social credit is what

01:31:01.060 trudeau would love to implement um well sorry i i misspoke um the social score is absolutely what

01:31:07.540 um trudeau would like to implement uh i don't want to rachel i don't want to mix social credit

01:31:13.040 up with the the good social i like social credit social credit political ideology that idea is

01:31:20.600 good social credit score or social score or what what is it they call it social score i don't know

01:31:26.880 whatever the thing the thing where the government can control your life that thing yeah not that

01:31:31.040 we don't want that yeah but yeah so this so the um the vaccine passport like i haven't even heard

01:31:37.080 of this being implemented in canada but you i've heard i've heard rumors that it is coming um i

01:31:42.740 have also met people who have already secured their fake vaccine passport um and good for them

01:31:47.940 well that's what we should go into business well we should we should hey look at that yeah that's

01:31:51.600 the thing that's the thing we're in favor of not the thing we're against this is yeah you can put

01:31:55.580 this up on the screen can i borrow this book yeah that's being given to us by our producers social

01:32:00.360 credit not to be confused with the social score from china uh the philosophy of john finley the

01:32:06.920 philosophy of uh well basically a common a common cause right having the commons and having you know

01:32:13.040 i mean peasants had a common field to graze their crops on right and graze their crops raise crops

01:32:17.980 and graze their animals and the idea of the commons and everybody benefiting from the commons is a

01:32:22.540 very old idea and and it's both a conservative and liberal idea people have argued it from

01:32:26.860 different sides and hopefully someday we all have enough understanding that we don't need to just

01:32:32.340 i don't know have everybody take it all for themselves and we could share a little bit

01:32:35.600 better that we'd have a better world i don't know let's put this comment up by helen moat it's

01:32:40.000 interesting maybe we can explore this a bit more she's called us uh but are we uh are we there's

01:32:46.200 no difference take up take up two wings of the same bird you guys sound like controlled opposition

01:32:52.140 controlled opposition that's interesting controlled opposition i i i i actually it's

01:32:59.660 funny because i turned that around on somebody the other day uh when it came to some of the

01:33:03.600 protests i'm not saying one shouldn't protest i just think that the fundamental form of protest

01:33:07.700 is to just do life so it it is a better protest for everyone to literally just not 0.97

01:33:15.820 care about whatever ordinances are coming in right now with stupid covid and everything else 0.98

01:33:20.720 and just literally live their lives that that would be better than going if you go and congregate 0.99

01:33:24.880 somewhere not only going to categorize all of you and number all of you and like write down all your

01:33:29.100 home addresses and everything and then hand out fines and then bring you to the court process and

01:33:32.640 then put you up on kangaroo charges and then humiliate you like that's a whole thing but if

01:33:37.140 all of you got in your cars and just went to church or kept driving around and you know visiting 0.98

01:33:41.460 people not giving a crap like if you just live life that is the protest that is a protest you

01:33:47.500 just live life in real life that doesn't mean there is never a place to show solidarity and 0.95

01:33:51.720 to protest to organize in the march on parliament like i don't i'm not saying you're you're forcing

01:33:56.120 the authority to arrest you for living your life yeah for doing things that you had been doing your

01:34:00.300 entire life exactly so it's just so i'm not again there is a place to protest i'm not saying don't

01:34:04.440 protest but but to the point of controlled opposition i mean i mean our discussions are

01:34:09.220 a little controlled in the sense that uh we've made a conscious effort in the time that we've

01:34:14.040 been speaking to each other you know the last few years to try to make arguments to each other that

01:34:18.860 aren't aimed at defeating each other especially in front of other people it's us versus the problem

01:34:23.300 not us versus each other well we made a very conscious decision you know in a in a show that

01:34:27.420 we used to do together that we were going to try to advance arguments that would actually convince

01:34:32.060 one another of what we were saying which is probably not the same approach that most partisans

01:34:38.960 use uh and so for me it's been quite interesting to discover you know you and i are quite aware of

01:34:44.820 the things on which we disagree and we you know we do a better job of displaying that i guess but

01:34:49.280 i don't i i mean we also would have to do that as a kind of serial thing i think that maybe maybe

01:34:54.240 that's something that i mean especially when i'm gone on my honeymoon there i mean somebody's got

01:34:57.940 to be running the show while i'm gone um or or we're going to pre-record everything and put it

01:35:02.760 up for those couple of weeks so that may be something we could do and with other guests as

01:35:07.720 well that we do a pre-coord thing and they are more oppositional or adversarial

01:35:11.120 because we're probably going to be in the middle of a federal election at that

01:35:13.640 point too. So yeah. With, with, with that young fella, Aaron O'Toole.

01:35:18.800 Yeah. Very young. Yeah. Well, no, I mean, Helen,

01:35:21.240 I disagree with you in some sense. I think division is important,

01:35:24.060 but how you go about the division is equally important. And, and again, I mean,

01:35:30.340 you know, I've, I've been critical already on the show of Jordan Peterson,

01:35:33.480 but I think one of the things that he really did a great job of communicating

01:35:37.180 to folks is that you are better people if you can make stronger arguments even if you disagree

01:35:42.940 um because it forces you and the person you're disagreeing with to contend with each other's

01:35:49.020 differences and come up with some kind of a solution and nobody likes weak people that just

01:35:54.700 sort of you know fold because they they they put unity above their own position or their own self

01:36:02.140 it's it's a very individualistic argument that probably many are marxists for instance have a

01:36:06.460 difficulty contending with themselves or adopting but um i i wouldn't say that those people are

01:36:12.260 really marxists i mean if you you go back far enough in time i mean as a trained marxist i

01:36:16.720 you know i was taught uh to engage in the process of criticism and self-criticism which is the same

01:36:22.120 as sort of what we what you and i do all the time which is we we rub our arguments up against each

01:36:26.840 other to see which are stronger and and as a result both of our arguments become stronger

01:36:31.340 they probably change a little bit so they do change a little bit i mean i'm definitely

01:36:34.300 is something a perfect example of that is i when when you were you and i were doing a podcast way

01:36:40.940 before any of this stuff was happening this is right this is right before covet is november of

01:36:44.460 2019 and we were talking back and forth i think you were still doing stuff with the labor knots

01:36:48.460 um and and we're just chatting in in my apartment which would also happen to be a studio and and

01:36:53.740 look over the city of prince george you can actually see it back there it's right this way

01:36:58.420 it was there that thing that big thing over there i'm going into the depth here i can't do it i

01:37:04.020 I can't do the thing.

01:37:05.320 I'm not a weatherman.

01:37:08.200 Anyways, the point is that right over there,

01:37:10.060 that big tall thing on the very back over Aaron's shoulder there,

01:37:13.000 that's where we were.

01:37:14.060 And we were talking about a drug supply,

01:37:17.180 and I was kind of taking the high-handed sort of approach

01:37:19.900 that a lot of us social conservatives would mostly take around.

01:37:21.900 Well, yeah, because the government should start buying people drugs.

01:37:24.340 And I still don't think the government should buy people drugs.

01:37:26.640 But then I looked down, and I realized,

01:37:27.920 because I was rolling a cigarette,

01:37:29.200 I looked down, and I realized that I had a safe supply in front of me

01:37:33.240 for my vice. And I had to contend with that. I had to face that reality. Now, someone can say

01:37:37.800 that heroin and nicotine aren't the same thing. Yes, I totally acknowledge that. People that have

01:37:42.620 done both have told me it's tougher to quit smoking. Well, it's biologically true that they

01:37:46.900 aren't the same thing. That's true. But ultimately, ultimately, I just I had to acknowledge that like

01:37:51.560 I had access to a safe supply for my vice and this person over there was going to die because

01:37:56.680 of their vice. And that that didn't seem super fair. Now, that doesn't mean that my vice might

01:38:01.800 not be less bad than their vice like even even biologically speaking but but there is an argument

01:38:07.400 to be made here that this person didn't you know that's not fair did they deserve to die just

01:38:11.560 because there's their supply isn't safe i that's that's an argument that has to be taken up yeah

01:38:17.020 that's a valid argument yeah now there's this uh bit of a switch here oh one more comment by helen

01:38:23.420 and then i want to go up to the cory cory morgan comment but we have not been educated to debate

01:38:28.180 discuss or communicate um and or communicate for a very long time because the owners don't want us

01:38:34.100 to know ourselves uh i i can agree with that helen i think um this is this is precisely what we're

01:38:39.380 what we're talking about that uh things are so divided right now and the left is like part of

01:38:43.880 the reason the reason why i first started paying any attention to jordan peterson at all i mentioned

01:38:48.320 his name a few times and i don't know if that's necessarily good but it wasn't because of the

01:38:52.800 arguments that he was making that caught my attention it was the degree to which nobody

01:38:56.760 from the left could come close uh to disproving the guy on anything and like i so i you know

01:39:03.500 walking in the sort of the left-wing circles that i walked in when this guy first came on the stage

01:39:07.400 and he was this you know horrendous transphobe that wanted to take away everybody's rights it 0.83

01:39:11.700 was going to cause everybody to kill themselves and all this stuff you know i approach it the 0.96

01:39:15.440 way i always approach it which is how i was taught in the marxist tradition that you always go

01:39:19.820 exactly to the person that you're supposed to disagree with that everybody hates so much and

01:39:23.060 find out what the hell they're saying so that if you have to disagree with it you're better

01:39:26.540 equipped to do so and so I started watching the debates he was having with like you know the

01:39:31.040 gender studies professors out of UBC and stuff and he was just decimating these people objectively

01:39:35.200 whether I agreed with what they were saying on transgender rights or whatever they weren't doing

01:39:40.300 a good job of making their argument and I just thought you know like for a guy that everybody

01:39:44.400 hates so much he's just obliterating these people in terms of his argumentation style so I became

01:39:52.140 very frustrated that nobody on my

01:39:54.140 so-called side of the debate had the

01:39:56.060 debate skills to be able to contend

01:39:57.980 with some of these new ideas that were

01:40:00.040 coming out. And that I found to be...

01:40:02.100 Yeah, and then he ran into Zizek, and that 0.99

01:40:04.120 was a mistake. That's a whole other... 1.00

01:40:06.260 Yeah, I won't go down that

01:40:08.200 road because that's another 15 minutes, but we should talk about

01:40:10.120 that debate at one point.

01:40:11.760 But let's go up... I think it was Pam

01:40:14.040 she made a comment about Corey

01:40:16.000 Morgan. You should have him on

01:40:17.420 more often.

01:40:19.880 I've never had Corey on. Rose said this.

01:40:21.580 not that i don't want cory it's just cory and i do shows on opposite days and at opposite times

01:40:28.940 so hopefully hopefully i mean i don't want to break into his labor and he doesn't need to break

01:40:33.440 into mine like i mean if he's if he's busy with other things and whatever i it's not that i don't

01:40:37.480 want cory on he's doing the monday and the friday he does the monday and fridays we do

01:40:41.260 over here i do tuesday wednesday and thursday um and that's that's that so well the reason i wanted

01:40:47.240 to i wanted to point to this comment here's here's my thing on cory like i i love that guy uh he was

01:40:54.180 getting some crap in the comments the other day too and that's that's how you know that you're

01:40:57.540 you know you're starting to do okay is when people start heckling you in the comments and 0.95

01:41:00.560 that's perfect right i mean that's the kind of debate that we want to have we and this is why

01:41:04.280 i love western standard viewers so much they just tell you what they think you know and that's no

01:41:07.960 filter there's no filter and why should there be a filter like this this is how we determine whether

01:41:12.720 or not we're going to be able to move forward together in some respect so you know poor cory's

01:41:16.400 doing a show on a monday and uh somebody makes this comment which he puts up on the screen that

01:41:21.420 says uh hey thanks for the lift last thursday cory and i don't think at first cory didn't really

01:41:26.040 know what it meant he's like who did i did i pick you up from the rodeo or something and give you

01:41:29.020 give you a ride and then he realized oh you're making fun of me because i'm an uber driver on

01:41:33.960 the side yeah and what i and then i became a cory morgan fan that day because he he just looks into

01:41:39.700 the camera and he goes what do you tell me that's not honest work like am i supposed to be ashamed

01:41:43.460 of the fact that I go from here to drive Uber.

01:41:47.980 And it was just such a perfect encapsulation.

01:41:50.760 Like this was probably,

01:41:51.480 the commenter was probably sitting in the legislature

01:41:54.180 working for the NDP or who knows who they were.

01:41:57.520 But they're clearly like somebody

01:41:59.280 from the professional managerial class

01:42:00.860 who is really kind of looking down.

01:42:02.920 They're punching down.

01:42:03.960 And they don't think they're punching down

01:42:05.460 because they see everybody on the right is like part of,

01:42:07.560 I don't know what they see them as,

01:42:08.780 but they don't see them as working class folks.

01:42:10.800 And even in the case where you've,

01:42:12.240 you know you got this evidence that somebody like cory morgan who's on tv or he's on you know he's

01:42:16.080 doing what we're doing he's live streaming uh twice a week uh happens to make some money by

01:42:20.320 driving uber on the side i fell in love with the guy when he uh uh when he demonstrated that he

01:42:25.360 wasn't ashamed of that at all he was proud of it he said it's honest work he says doing this is

01:42:28.880 honest work and i thought yeah right on man um and and way to point out the elitism in people who

01:42:34.560 consider themselves progressive i mean that's again it's one of those issues where people like

01:42:39.120 me who literally are the far left like the far radical left uh can find some common ground with

01:42:44.880 people on the right like cory morgan because you know fundamentally his material uh relation to

01:42:50.480 to the money that he makes is one of a working class person and he's not ashamed of that at all

01:42:55.040 and i and he shouldn't be and nor should he be and i became a huge fan of that guy

01:42:59.200 so i i don't i don't want to speak for you i doubt you're going to have him on very often

01:43:02.480 because he's got his own he's got his own show and he's got his own time and it's and it's not

01:43:05.760 it's not me not wanting it's just it's just like you know he he's got other things to do i got

01:43:09.680 other things to do too he's busy he's trying to make a living yeah exactly exactly like the rest

01:43:13.160 of us so so i hopefully no i'd love to i'd love to touch base of court we we've talked more via

01:43:18.460 phone and stuff than anything else because we've been talking about trying to make sure that

01:43:22.320 everything's up to the same snuff throughout the western standard and everybody's figuring out how

01:43:26.160 to do cameras and mini ati boxes and that sort of stuff um all that sort of stuff so i think with

01:43:32.680 let's just come back to the covid passport here for just a moment just kind of as we close out

01:43:36.660 the show because the pipeline is coming on and i guess it's about 20 minutes but they always want

01:43:40.280 me out of the way as as soon as they can get me out of the way but but um 20 minutes no that's

01:43:44.960 wrong it's coming on about 10 minutes um the the thing that i'm going to kind of brick on here when

01:43:50.440 it comes to the covid passport thing is that i just think i you know regardless of where you sit

01:43:54.640 with the vaccine i have no intention of taking it myself but but whatever it's each their own

01:43:59.520 I, the issue I take is that like, how, how can this possibly square with your charter rights at all? Like, it just makes no sense. And further to that, how, who, who, what happened to the ACLU people that were there, you know, back in the 80s, so that Twisted Sister could publish their record and, and, you know, Flynn could, could, could put, or Flint or whatever, could publish Hustler.

01:44:23.960 like what happened to that generation of left-wing libertarians yeah where are they today like i mean

01:44:29.720 like they're in the republican party where they should be well there it is like how can you

01:44:33.480 how can you be arguing for a coveted passport and say i'm a leftist it's like or to be progressive

01:44:38.360 or to be left-wing or even liberal it's like this is exactly the this is government control

01:44:44.440 no it absolutely is and it's alarming to me and it's not just on vaccines it alarms it alarms me

01:44:49.160 It's like, you know, irrespective of whatever position you had on the coastal gas link pipeline going straight through Wet'suwet'en territory in north central British Columbia, I happen to be in favor of that pipeline.

01:45:02.640 But I don't like the idea of the RCMP at the behest of either the federal or even worse, the provincial government marching into a nation's territory like that with sniper rifles and enforcing the will of a corporation.

01:45:17.380 I just, I mean, that's just not something

01:45:19.220 that I think any government should facilitate.

01:45:21.700 And it was funny because we talked about this before.

01:45:23.660 It was, because I do another show here in Prince George.

01:45:26.020 I do a radio show at the local radio station.

01:45:29.400 And it was my right-wing guy was the most pro,

01:45:32.980 like my old conservative guy

01:45:34.320 was the most pro-Aboriginal in that segment.

01:45:38.100 Art was more the law and order guy.

01:45:39.880 So he's the other right-wing guy

01:45:40.760 who was kind of more law and order.

01:45:42.000 He didn't, he just wanted them pushed

01:45:43.180 off the railroad tracks.

01:45:45.040 That's that.

01:45:45.520 But then, and then my two social Democrats were like, send in the army.

01:45:50.140 Like, we just, like, we'll just march in there.

01:45:51.940 Like, we got to get some tanks in there.

01:45:53.560 I'm like, what the heck?

01:45:54.960 Like.

01:45:55.520 No, this, and this is what, you know, these people that I'm supposed to be on the same side of the fence of are the ones that are advocating more lockdowns.

01:46:01.580 They're the people that are on Twitter saying, you know, Bonnie Henry's terrible because she's not, you know, because she's lifting the restrictions too soon.

01:46:07.700 She's personally murdered every single British Columbia.

01:46:09.180 That she's responsible for 1,200 new deaths.

01:46:11.420 Like, so, yeah, no, that stuff worries me. 0.82

01:46:14.960 this authoritarianism that's that's uh coming out of the left vaccine passports are very much a part

01:46:19.520 of that authoritarian uh tendency and so like you know to be clear i'm personally not opposed to the

01:46:25.120 vaccine whatsoever like i'm not i'm not choosing to not get it because you know i'm worried that

01:46:30.240 it's going to make me sick i'm sort of on the same page as you know like cory morgan and uh

01:46:34.720 uh well derek fildebrandt anyway oh yeah derek got the back the publisher of this outfit um

01:46:40.640 in that you know you make your own personal decision on whether you're going to get you

01:46:43.760 weigh the options and you make a decision based on on your own interests and the interests of

01:46:47.600 your family and you make that decision like I wear a mask everywhere right and I and I have

01:46:52.580 I don't even bat an eye when I encounter somebody else who doesn't wear a mask like that's their

01:46:56.800 that's their right um and I really appreciate um you know the position I think that's been put

01:47:03.380 putting out put out by the standard which is encouraging people not to chastise people who

01:47:08.580 wear a mask um because that's their personal right as well I mean that's that's the whole

01:47:12.620 that's how we get along better live and let live everybody just lets everybody else do whatever

01:47:16.260 the hell they you know makes them feel safe as long as it doesn't infringe on on our stuff and

01:47:21.200 so you know i might get the vaccine i haven't decided for me it's more like you know i spent

01:47:26.160 most of my time by myself in my house uh like you know you guys your linux system with my linux

01:47:32.560 system and my marxism and uh yeah uh and i figure you know there's other people like my mom for

01:47:37.300 instance who's just a giant nerd is what you are well yeah well i'm not i'm not that giant but i

01:47:41.420 i'm a nerd but uh you know like my mom for instance she's got a heart condition and she's a

01:47:45.520 very social person and she's you know like she's not as much of an isolationist like i am and

01:47:49.800 and the last year and a half has been really tough on her because she knows if she catches

01:47:53.320 the thing she's probably dead uh because she's already not in the greatest health and she really

01:47:58.140 wants to get out i mean i didn't go and see my grandmother i didn't go give her a hug like i

01:48:01.580 mean we've all made choices even us who are very skeptical of all this stuff have have

01:48:05.240 shows like we're not licking doorknobs or eyeballs as you put it yeah yeah well my and my grandfather

01:48:10.560 is wasting away in an old folks home in uh in Kelowna and nobody can see the poor guy and

01:48:16.020 you know like so she wanted to get vaccinated so she could get into the home to go see him fair

01:48:20.060 enough uh for me it's more like you know I'm just waiting for everybody who really needs it to sort

01:48:24.560 of go through and then if I've got nothing to do maybe I'll head down and get it too but

01:48:27.760 I take personal care uh to make sure I you know that I don't I don't want to catch the thing it's

01:48:34.040 it's not like i believe that it doesn't exist um but uh you know i like the other side of it is

01:48:41.220 these things aren't tested to the same degree as most things on the market because of the and i

01:48:45.440 understand the speed at which it was you have to get them out fast and so i'm in a position where

01:48:49.780 it's not really impacting my life right now to not have it so why why not wait for a few weeks

01:48:55.200 and watch to see what happens to everybody else oh there you go yeah no use that as data and make

01:49:00.120 a decision i know when everybody else turns into a zombie you can just we'll see i'll probably get

01:49:05.360 it but um i'm in no hurry at this point enough and it doesn't bother me in the slightest you 0.77

01:49:09.580 get a second head right here then we have another person to talk to the right is gay i don't really 0.72

01:49:18.520 understand what's going on there but uh well some people on the right are gay it's true actually 0.93

01:49:23.520 there was he's not on twitter anymore but there was a gay patriot he was a republican in the 0.63

01:49:28.140 united states and uh very pro-gun very pro-development and yeah um yep yeah well this 0.95

01:49:33.980 is the thing about gay folks they're everywhere they are yeah they are just like hetero folks 0.82

01:49:38.240 just like just like people people are just everywhere go figure um as we kind of close

01:49:42.640 out the show here i think i think kind of one of the places to kind of come back uh to from the

01:49:47.700 beginning is is again this question of sovereignty and independence and we're not going to get there

01:49:52.360 without each other right and that's the thing too because if you were to cut off the west tomorrow

01:49:56.080 guess who would still be here right we still have john horgan we'd still have wab canoe

01:49:59.840 we'd still have rachel notley so if you're a right winger who hates those people well i mean

01:50:04.760 they're going to be there tomorrow if you cut off uh at lakehead or take tunder bay with us

01:50:09.280 and that's that hell if you take the rest of northern ontario with us and just leave the

01:50:12.760 laurentian valley and the and the seaway and everything else like you're still going to have

01:50:18.280 even if you got the rest of the northwest territories and everything else you took like

01:50:21.500 what is that's for four you know fifths of canada basically um if you took all the rest of that

01:50:28.500 you'd still have all the people in thunder bay still vote ndp and nikki ashton's writing and

01:50:33.920 you'd still have you'd still have things going on throughout throughout and i mean the non-partisan

01:50:38.360 but usually left-wing territorial leaders uh so this is the reality of things so we're a community

01:50:44.340 we're a we live in a society um we're a community margaret thatcher disagreed but there you go

01:50:50.660 We're global village.

01:50:52.040 No, we're not.

01:50:52.900 We are your neighbors, right?

01:50:54.860 People are your neighbors.

01:50:56.340 And, you know, you've got to love your neighbor as yourself sort of thing.

01:50:59.100 And ultimately, we're not going to get into a better position either as all of Canada, as Western Canada, or just British Columbia and Alberta or whatever.

01:51:07.980 We're not going to get into a better position by not finding places to find allies and agree on things and move forward.

01:51:17.400 Yeah, I mean, we get to independence and I'll fight with you then.

01:51:19.560 Well, there it is. Right. Exactly. I mean, as soon as the revolution is over, the front guard goes.

01:51:25.720 It's like, wait a minute. I've seen this before. I've seen this movie before.

01:51:29.560 But the pipeline's coming on pretty quick here.

01:51:32.020 So we're going to close out a little bit earlier today just to make sure that we're all on the same page.

01:51:36.640 But again, thank you so much for watching. Thank you for being here.

01:51:38.880 I love it. We're going to have to come up with a better introduction for you because I kept calling you the B.C. Secretary of Labor, the former Secretary of Treasury.

01:51:45.440 Just call me that communist guy.

01:51:46.980 Yes.

01:51:47.760 And our resident godless commie who's pro-development, Aaron Ekman.

01:51:52.380 But anyways, thank you so much for being here today.

01:51:53.940 Oh, thanks for having me.

01:51:54.760 Of course.

01:51:55.300 And so that was Mountain Standard Time.

01:51:57.140 I'm your host, Nathan Gita.

01:51:58.220 We'll see you again tomorrow.

01:51:59.240 Of course, it's Stuart Parker to brick out the week on us,

01:52:01.780 to tell us everything from the other side of the left and see how we go from there.

01:52:06.020 Thank you so much for watching.

01:52:07.060 We'll see you tomorrow.

01:52:07.820 9 a.m. Pacific, 10 a.m. Mountain.

Western Standard - May 27, 2021

Mountain Standard Time - May 26, 2021

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