Pastor of Canada’s largest church raises alarm over Bill C-9
Episode Stats
Harmful content
Hate speech
2
sentences flagged
Summary
Bill C-9 sits at second reading in the Senate, and soon, unless something unexpected happens, it will soon be in the Governor General's hands for royal assent and will change how faith communities in Canada express their beliefs. Many Christians are worried that Bill C9 could limit how they express their faith, teach, or even discuss the Bible in a group setting. With me today is Pastor Kent Priebe, who recently became lead pastor at Centre Street Church in Calgary, Canada.
Transcript
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Good evening, Western Standard viewers, and welcome to Hannaford, the weekly politics show
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of the Western Standard. It is Thursday, April the 30th. Bill C-9 sits today at second reading
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in the Senate. This is the one that many people are anxious about because it means it can be
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illegal to quote the Bible in some contexts. So, unless something unexpected happens, it will soon
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be in the Governor-General's hands for royal assent and will change how faith communities
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express their beliefs. Not to put too fine a point on it, many Christians are worried
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that Bill C-9 could limit how they express their faith, teach, or even discuss the Scriptures
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in a group setting. With me today is Pastor Kent Priebe, who recently became lead pastor
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at Calgary's Center Street Church. Welcome, Pastor Kent.
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Thank you, Nigel. Pleasure to be here with you and your team here today.
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Kent, my researchers tell me that Center Street is the largest church in Canada.
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You know, I haven't done my own extensive research, but yeah, we are referred to as the largest, if not one of the largest churches in Canada.
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Well, I wanted to give you the opportunity to brag, but, you know, it does strike me that you are in the situation, because of the vagueness of how Bill C-9 is worded, it seems like you are among those who stand potentially to be impacted, maybe even targeted through malicious use of this legislation by bad faith actors.
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As a church, we and other pastors we've been talking with over the months, we have been concerned about this bill.
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We have encouraged our congregation to voice their concerns and their opinions to their members of parliament and right now to senators.
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And we are concerned that we could be impacted as a church in our teaching, in our worship services, in Bible studies and workshops and seminars because of the way that this bill can be interpreted in terms of hate speech.
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Yes. So, since the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was proclaimed more than 40 years ago,
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Canada's elected governments and the courts have been pushing Christianity out of the public square.
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Last year, they were even talking about cancelling tax deductions for people who give money to religious organizations,
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not just the churches, but any religious organization, I should add.
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now people are saying that they'll see nine is more of the same what how do you
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answer people who come to you pastorally and say what's going on what is this
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actually going to mean for the church mm-hmm yeah we you know it it uh it's
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hard not to draw a line through things that have been happening the last number
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of years concerning churches and Christianity to feel like you know
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religion or faith is being marginalized when people have talked to us about
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their concern of Bill C9 and every week I can confidently say every week we have
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someone from our congregation saying what what are we doing about this what
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do we feel about this what's the potential impact about this on us and we
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express our that we are concerned about this in terms of the our freedom of expression freedom
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of religion and um and in particular that um text read from scripture or doctrine that's taught
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can be interpreted as hate speech and then according to bill c9 from what i understand
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there can be allegations and then charges laid in terms of that being considered hate speech when
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our intent is not to be hateful our intent is not to stir up hate um however people might be
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offended by what they hear and at times i sit in church and i am offended because there's some
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correction from scripture right into my life and maybe over offended is a bit overstated but i'm
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convicted and um and instructed according to scripture and so yeah i i think we don't know
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exactly how the impact this will have but it is concerning that there is potential for
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for someone to say that scripture read or that sermon or that bible study or that that instruction
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uh i i felt was hateful towards me and uh and then where does it go from there and a concern
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of ours is the removal of what has been seen as a protection you know for religious communities
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and faith communities in terms of a good faith defense well the the language in the bill i mean
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we're having this conversation having reviews about the draft language that is before parliament
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now and it does seem vague where certainty actually would be very helpful the definition
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of hatred itself yeah i'm i think we're aware of the efforts made by mp andrew lawson to bring
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to bring clarity to that yeah but it's still kind of one of those things that it's who's
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offended and how they see it yeah that so there's there's certainly something to be concerned about
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there and if I could just add a bit more yes to that you know it it uh I think
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there was a member of Parliament that actually quoted scriptures from the
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Bible and said that these are hateful yes and so when you do have a member of
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Parliament publicly stating that this these texts are seen as hateful and then
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you see the government removing the good faith defense it's hard not to come
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it's not hard to see potentially where this could be going in that you know it's
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a high probability that someone teaching scripture you know it could be
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interpreted as hateful and that could be there it's hard not to draw a line and
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see where this is heading i'm not saying it is heading there
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but you know sometimes you think of worst case scenario
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and uh we could end up there and we're concerned about that
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we have become used in the last two and a half hundred years
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to a um a condition where the church has moral authority
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even among people who are not necessarily followers of the church you know they're not
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christians or they're not muslims or they're not hindus or whatever they're just but the the um
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the church itself has been recognized as authorized to say well this is right and this is wrong
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don't don't do that do do this um i get a sense that that authority has slept away in the last
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probably since the the charter of rights was proclaimed in 40 years ago um that puts us back
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does it not to more or less where the christian church was uh shortly after christ rose from the
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dead you know it was not recognized as an authority by the roman empire for about 300
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years and in the meantime you know there were no tax deductions you know for for being a christian
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in the year ad 250 so um my my question to you really is okay this is probably coming our way
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hope not we'll do our best we won't be silly but um somebody is going to be the point of the spear
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on this what happened from the point of view of the church does not the church go on without
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his buildings and his tax deductions what yeah let's go into the science fiction of that for a
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moment um you know it is uh you know you think of what could happen and um and um i guess in answer
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to that the church will you know the church will continue the church is not a man-made institution
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it's not a human institution i and so many others believe that it is god's institution
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it's what he has formed is what he jesus christ began here on earth and um you know almost
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two thousand and more years ago and um so the church has always seen challenges and currently
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around the world there's incredible challenges that churches are experiencing around the world
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i met a pastor from algeria and um essentially christian churches there were just shut down in
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a matter of weeks and uh the church is still functioning though in homes and in secret places
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and um and so i'm not i'm not saying that will happen here in canada um however you look at
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what's happening around the world and you think you know what in 20 or 30 years or 40 years
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it possibly would be but i i could the church will continue um in its various forms and expressions
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we've seen that throughout history thousands of years and um so i'm not there is hope in that
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in that context and i i do believe that the church is having a positive influential
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impact here in canada here in calgary and around the world well when you say a positive impact for
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some people that gets very very personal you have a number of i want to come back to the main subject
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just so people understand what the center street church and others like it is just not a place
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where people come on Sundays and then go home again what else goes on in that
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building that is a public benefit oh wow you know what I just in preparation I
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just thought I I don't know all that goes on so I thought I'd make some some
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notes about what does go on not only at Center Street Church but churches across
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Canada and here in Calgary but in particular at Center Street we have over
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100 people to gather every Monday night and they move out to ten different
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locations across calgary and they give out food every monday about 300 lunches are handed out to
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people bibles are given out to people and people are asked can i pray for you and rarely rarely
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does the person being asked to say no what we're finding is people want to be prayed for they need
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help they're struggling to make life work these days they've got cares and concerns and someone
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offering to pray for them is is uh get some hope you know um we have we have so many things for
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children um we have just you know a rough estimate here over two thousand two thousand three hundred
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uh activities for kids throughout the summer um individual children what sort of activities oh
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I know in the neighborhood you're sort of known as the church that brings in the bouncy castle.
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We have a – every week, every month, we give out 350 food hampers.
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every month food ambers that's 560 households you know not individuals we have we help people
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who need pay for their rent or the utility bills we have about 600 people that access clothing
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there's free clothing each month and i was i'm astounded by this but this is a true statistic
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From January till April, we have served 20,000 meals to people that either need a place to belong.
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They may have food at home, but they need a place to belong, or they need food.
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And that's just, you know, there's more I could say, but we want to have an impact.
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This is actually a Christian tradition from day one, is it not?
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Yeah, you read in the Bible in Acts, it might be familiar to some of your viewers and listeners, that's what Christians did.
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They shared food, they shared homes, they shared property.
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They existed for the benefit of others, the good of the community.
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Well, so a cynic might say that, oh yeah, right from the beginning, these people have had a wonderful public relations exercise.
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They get people on side by giving out food and whatever the Romans would have wanted.
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um but it's not that is it no like where does it come from you know what it it it uh it comes
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from a genuine gratitude and gratefulness to what we have received and experiencing from god
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that's the core of it a true christian will know what they've experienced from god
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not an easy life not a perfect life absolutely not a life free from suffering but they received
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goodness hope peace from god and then they act on that in the world not just verbally talk about it
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but act on it and that is that's the core of of being a christian um so and it's okay it is it's
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distressing to think that um what the bible says could be misinterpreted or misrepresented as
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hateful i i agree some might find it personally challenging personally challenging that's a great
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way yeah but it's not hateful absolutely not hateful yeah yeah that well that that's the
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that's that is the thing about this if if that church community up there on 40th avenue
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disappeared and if others like it people living here would notice the difference
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absolutely so so this legislation it has sort of a chilling effect on speech and preaching
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and if you have an imagination you can see how things go seriously wrong if things went
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seriously wrong it wouldn't just be the people in in the building who would feel the effect yeah
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and that's where you you kind of think does the government or people you know see the benefit
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to the benefit of churches uh the impact that will have in the community and society and there's
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there's a um there's i looked at this a number of years ago there's something called the halo effect
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yes that if a it's a it's a way to try and ascertain if if a local church did not exist
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what would be what would be the uh the negative impact to the community in terms of dollars is
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this the cardist study that you're speaking of it it is similar to card is a little bit different
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right okay but just saying you know what there what there is a place for faith there's a place
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for faith in society and i i i feel like our society at large and our government is is almost
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addressing that is there a place for faith and religion in society or not
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and it's hard not to think that bill c9 is moving towards saying
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uh there there will be a limited or controlled expression of faith in society and i i again
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that's concerning. It's something that we've noticed before. There was a philosopher by the
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name of Charles Taylor, a few years ago, wrote a book, and he talked about a secular age.
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Is this what we're talking about, the secular age? People don't merely reject God. They don't
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even have a concept of god you know i have not read as others like yourself i understand a lot
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more what that what that means right a secular age um i would say there are there are people
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that are and throughout history have been antagonistic towards christians hostile even
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in fact perhaps yes um and i that's always been the case at the same time i do see and believe
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that there are a vast majority of others others that are interested in the christian faith that
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are interested in god and interested in jesus christ and so i i think they'll always be the two
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other things get burned down, what's the big deal?
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and will adapt and not not adapt in belief or but adapt in expression adapt in practice perhaps
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but there's some things that always stay the same and um i but in another sense i think we continue
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on the bible has not changed what jesus came to to instruct us to you know to live and how to
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the mission that we have doesn't change and so in some sense we continue on as we have been and that
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is to to do good to love your neighbor as yourself to love your enemies to um you know to be generous
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to be pursuing peace to be pursuing unity and um and that that has been and then so much more could
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be said about that about that is how christians operate that's what we are that's what jesus did
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and that's what we are that we follow him and so that's what we do so uh in some cases we stay the
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course and um and what we're finding is that there are there there are people that are genuinely
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interested in scripture in the bible they um i talked to a gentleman the other day from uh from
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Sikh background in Pakistan to a Muslim background in France and here and he wants to be baptized
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and so we find people coming from a atheist background a another faith background and
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that's just what we're seeing I'm not saying that is for everyone certainly but that's what we are
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see on a on a continual regular basis and i'm hearing as well from pastors across canada
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churches are growing i wanted to ask you about that you know that's what i'm hearing i'm hearing
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the same thing i see articles of young people are coming back to church yeah do you see it at
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center street we are yeah we are we are um i um what's the attraction yeah i mean i mean it used
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to be that it wasn't going to church it's not an attraction now they're coming back what has
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changed the society that is making a young man of 21 or 22 say you know what I'm gonna go in here
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with the people who got to say yeah I I can just tell you what we what we're experiencing there's
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a group of grade 10 students who regularly at their own initiative go out to malls and parks
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and hand out bibles and in the past six months they've handed out 150 bibles to people
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and uh they have not encountered someone who is rude or offended by that and um and so they're
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living out there in an incredible personal way right open way appropriate way their faith i
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talked with another gentleman about three months ago 22 years old the university of calgary uh
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quickly his story. He did not believe in Jesus Christ, was not a Christian at all, was curious
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about spirituality. And on his TikTok feed, kept on coming up things about Jesus. And in fact, he
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hit the button that says less of these kinds of messages. But it just kept coming. It kept coming.
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And he started being interested in who Jesus Christ was. He found his parents were aware of
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that. He found his way up to a soccer tournament in Edmonton, and they stayed at a hotel. And there
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was a Gideon Bible, a Bible in the hotel room. And his mom says, well, you should take that Bible.
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And he said, no, I can't steal a Bible from the hotel. And his mom said, well, that's a Bible for
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you. You know, anyways, long story short, he ended up knowing Jesus, giving his life to follow Jesus.
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His parents are following Jesus and a 22 year old young man. And that's what we're seeing this year,
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2025 um we've seen an increase and this is across the states in canada an increase in men
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attending 43 of men say that they uh attend church interesting statistics hopeful statistics
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good note on which to end okay so kent i really appreciate you coming in there's a wonderful
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ministry that you have there at center street church and uh give you all encouragement but
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i'm going to give you the last word and the last word would be how would you
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with or without a building yeah does the church go on absolutely absolutely yeah the church is
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not a human made by humans the church is something that god has instituted and it will continue yeah
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thank you nigel thank you for the western standard i'm nigel hannaford
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