Western Standard - Pastor of Canada’s largest church raises alarm over Bill C-9

00:00:00.000 Good evening, Western Standard viewers, and welcome to Hannaford, the weekly politics show

00:00:21.000 of the Western Standard. It is Thursday, April the 30th. Bill C-9 sits today at second reading

00:00:30.280 in the Senate. This is the one that many people are anxious about because it means it can be

00:00:35.820 illegal to quote the Bible in some contexts. So, unless something unexpected happens, it will soon

00:00:42.920 be in the Governor-General's hands for royal assent and will change how faith communities

00:00:48.600 express their beliefs. Not to put too fine a point on it, many Christians are worried

00:00:54.680 that Bill C-9 could limit how they express their faith, teach, or even discuss the Scriptures

00:01:01.480 in a group setting. With me today is Pastor Kent Priebe, who recently became lead pastor

00:01:07.200 at Calgary's Center Street Church. Welcome, Pastor Kent.

00:01:12.300 Thank you, Nigel. Pleasure to be here with you and your team here today.

00:01:17.060 Good to have you with us, Kent.

00:01:20.300 Kent, my researchers tell me that Center Street is the largest church in Canada.

00:01:26.080 Is that right?

00:01:28.260 You know, I haven't done my own extensive research, but yeah, we are referred to as the largest, if not one of the largest churches in Canada.

00:01:35.540 Well, I wanted to give you the opportunity to brag, but, you know, it does strike me that you are in the situation, because of the vagueness of how Bill C-9 is worded, it seems like you are among those who stand potentially to be impacted, maybe even targeted through malicious use of this legislation by bad faith actors.

00:02:04.160 Do you have any concerns in that area?

00:02:06.840 Yeah, absolutely.

00:02:08.820 As a church, we and other pastors we've been talking with over the months, we have been concerned about this bill.

00:02:15.920 We have encouraged our congregation to voice their concerns and their opinions to their members of parliament and right now to senators.

00:02:24.540 And we are concerned that we could be impacted as a church in our teaching, in our worship services, in Bible studies and workshops and seminars because of the way that this bill can be interpreted in terms of hate speech.

00:02:43.420 So we're very concerned by it.

00:02:44.660 Yes. So, since the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was proclaimed more than 40 years ago,

00:02:53.760 Canada's elected governments and the courts have been pushing Christianity out of the public square.

00:03:00.460 Last year, they were even talking about cancelling tax deductions for people who give money to religious organizations,

00:03:09.040 not just the churches, but any religious organization, I should add.

00:03:13.500 now people are saying that they'll see nine is more of the same what how do you

00:03:21.600 answer people who come to you pastorally and say what's going on what is this

00:03:28.120 actually going to mean for the church mm-hmm yeah we you know it it uh it's

00:03:34.380 hard not to draw a line through things that have been happening the last number

00:03:38.220 of years concerning churches and Christianity to feel like you know

00:03:46.800 religion or faith is being marginalized when people have talked to us about

00:03:52.560 their concern of Bill C9 and every week I can confidently say every week we have

00:03:57.620 someone from our congregation saying what what are we doing about this what

00:04:01.900 do we feel about this what's the potential impact about this on us and we

00:04:05.560 express our that we are concerned about this in terms of the our freedom of expression freedom

00:04:12.100 of religion and um and in particular that um text read from scripture or doctrine that's taught

00:04:23.580 can be interpreted as hate speech and then according to bill c9 from what i understand

00:04:29.660 there can be allegations and then charges laid in terms of that being considered hate speech when

00:04:36.000 our intent is not to be hateful our intent is not to stir up hate um however people might be

00:04:43.820 offended by what they hear and at times i sit in church and i am offended because there's some

00:04:50.100 correction from scripture right into my life and maybe over offended is a bit overstated but i'm

00:04:56.080 convicted and um and instructed according to scripture and so yeah i i think we don't know

00:05:03.640 exactly how the impact this will have but it is concerning that there is potential for

00:05:09.400 for someone to say that scripture read or that sermon or that bible study or that that instruction

00:05:17.140 uh i i felt was hateful towards me and uh and then where does it go from there and a concern

00:05:25.780 of ours is the removal of what has been seen as a protection you know for religious communities

00:05:32.660 and faith communities in terms of a good faith defense well the the language in the bill i mean

00:05:39.940 we're having this conversation having reviews about the draft language that is before parliament

00:05:45.060 now and it does seem vague where certainty actually would be very helpful the definition

00:05:51.620 of hatred itself yeah i'm i think we're aware of the efforts made by mp andrew lawson to bring

00:05:59.300 to bring clarity to that yeah but it's still kind of one of those things that it's who's

00:06:06.820 offended and how they see it yeah that so there's there's certainly something to be concerned about

00:06:12.980 there and if I could just add a bit more yes to that you know it it uh I think

00:06:24.380 there was a member of Parliament that actually quoted scriptures from the

00:06:29.600 Bible and said that these are hateful yes and so when you do have a member of

00:06:36.320 Parliament publicly stating that this these texts are seen as hateful and then

00:06:44.060 you see the government removing the good faith defense it's hard not to come

00:06:50.600 it's not hard to see potentially where this could be going in that you know it's

00:06:58.640 a high probability that someone teaching scripture you know it could be

00:07:04.760 interpreted as hateful and that could be there it's hard not to draw a line and

00:07:09.480 see where this is heading i'm not saying it is heading there

00:07:12.440 but you know sometimes you think of worst case scenario

00:07:16.120 and uh we could end up there and we're concerned about that

00:07:20.200 we have become used in the last two and a half hundred years

00:07:24.280 to a um a condition where the church has moral authority

00:07:31.640 even among people who are not necessarily followers of the church you know they're not

00:07:37.240 christians or they're not muslims or they're not hindus or whatever they're just but the the um

00:07:43.080 the church itself has been recognized as authorized to say well this is right and this is wrong

00:07:49.800 don't don't do that do do this um i get a sense that that authority has slept away in the last

00:07:58.120 probably since the the charter of rights was proclaimed in 40 years ago um that puts us back

00:08:07.720 does it not to more or less where the christian church was uh shortly after christ rose from the

00:08:15.960 dead you know it was not recognized as an authority by the roman empire for about 300

00:08:22.280 years and in the meantime you know there were no tax deductions you know for for being a christian

00:08:29.480 in the year ad 250 so um my my question to you really is okay this is probably coming our way

00:08:39.560 hope not we'll do our best we won't be silly but um somebody is going to be the point of the spear

00:08:47.480 on this what happened from the point of view of the church does not the church go on without

00:08:56.280 his buildings and his tax deductions what yeah let's go into the science fiction of that for a

00:09:01.720 moment um you know it is uh you know you think of what could happen and um and um i guess in answer

00:09:13.980 to that the church will you know the church will continue the church is not a man-made institution

00:09:21.100 it's not a human institution i and so many others believe that it is god's institution

00:09:27.860 it's what he has formed is what he jesus christ began here on earth and um you know almost

00:09:36.140 two thousand and more years ago and um so the church has always seen challenges and currently

00:09:43.320 around the world there's incredible challenges that churches are experiencing around the world

00:09:49.020 i met a pastor from algeria and um essentially christian churches there were just shut down in

00:09:57.960 a matter of weeks and uh the church is still functioning though in homes and in secret places

00:10:04.480 and um and so i'm not i'm not saying that will happen here in canada um however you look at

00:10:13.260 what's happening around the world and you think you know what in 20 or 30 years or 40 years

00:10:17.120 it possibly would be but i i could the church will continue um in its various forms and expressions

00:10:25.360 we've seen that throughout history thousands of years and um so i'm not there is hope in that

00:10:32.320 in that context and i i do believe that the church is having a positive influential

00:10:39.740 impact here in canada here in calgary and around the world well when you say a positive impact for

00:10:47.560 some people that gets very very personal you have a number of i want to come back to the main subject

00:10:53.420 just so people understand what the center street church and others like it is just not a place

00:10:59.180 where people come on Sundays and then go home again what else goes on in that

00:11:03.680 building that is a public benefit oh wow you know what I just in preparation I

00:11:10.040 just thought I I don't know all that goes on so I thought I'd make some some

00:11:13.640 notes about what does go on not only at Center Street Church but churches across

00:11:17.360 Canada and here in Calgary but in particular at Center Street we have over

00:11:23.140 100 people to gather every Monday night and they move out to ten different

00:11:28.460 locations across calgary and they give out food every monday about 300 lunches are handed out to

00:11:37.980 people bibles are given out to people and people are asked can i pray for you and rarely rarely

00:11:47.900 does the person being asked to say no what we're finding is people want to be prayed for they need

00:11:54.460 help they're struggling to make life work these days they've got cares and concerns and someone

00:12:00.620 offering to pray for them is is uh get some hope you know um we have we have so many things for

00:12:07.980 children um we have just you know a rough estimate here over two thousand two thousand three hundred

00:12:15.740 uh activities for kids throughout the summer um individual children what sort of activities oh

00:12:22.060 Camps, day camps, sports camps, Bible camps.

00:12:28.520 I know in the neighborhood you're sort of known as the church that brings in the bouncy castle.

00:12:32.780 Oh, yeah.

00:12:33.580 I mean, yeah.

00:12:34.800 Just incredible.

00:12:36.460 How many food hampers do you give out?

00:12:38.800 Yeah, I was getting there.

00:12:40.740 We have a – every week, every month, we give out 350 food hampers.

00:12:49.720 Well, actually, now it's 560.

00:12:52.060 every month food ambers that's 560 households you know not individuals we have we help people

00:12:59.520 who need pay for their rent or the utility bills we have about 600 people that access clothing

00:13:06.920 there's free clothing each month and i was i'm astounded by this but this is a true statistic

00:13:13.800 From January till April, we have served 20,000 meals to people that either need a place to belong.

00:13:23.540 They may have food at home, but they need a place to belong, or they need food.

00:13:28.900 And that's just, you know, there's more I could say, but we want to have an impact.

00:13:35.560 This is actually a Christian tradition from day one, is it not?

00:13:39.580 Absolutely.

00:13:40.640 Absolutely.

00:13:41.080 Yeah, you read in the Bible in Acts, it might be familiar to some of your viewers and listeners, that's what Christians did.

00:13:49.040 They shared food, they shared homes, they shared property.

00:13:52.440 They existed for the benefit of others, the good of the community.

00:13:55.800 Well, so a cynic might say that, oh yeah, right from the beginning, these people have had a wonderful public relations exercise.

00:14:03.680 They get people on side by giving out food and whatever the Romans would have wanted.

00:14:08.740 um but it's not that is it no like where does it come from you know what it it it uh it comes

00:14:17.200 from a genuine gratitude and gratefulness to what we have received and experiencing from god

00:14:25.460 that's the core of it a true christian will know what they've experienced from god

00:14:31.380 not an easy life not a perfect life absolutely not a life free from suffering but they received

00:14:38.360 goodness hope peace from god and then they act on that in the world not just verbally talk about it

00:14:45.560 but act on it and that is that's the core of of being a christian um so and it's okay it is it's

00:14:53.420 distressing to think that um what the bible says could be misinterpreted or misrepresented as

00:15:02.160 hateful i i agree some might find it personally challenging personally challenging that's a great

00:15:08.720 way yeah but it's not hateful absolutely not hateful yeah yeah that well that that's the

00:15:17.840 that's that is the thing about this if if that church community up there on 40th avenue

00:15:24.720 disappeared and if others like it people living here would notice the difference

00:15:31.940 absolutely so so this legislation it has sort of a chilling effect on speech and preaching

00:15:41.680 and if you have an imagination you can see how things go seriously wrong if things went

00:15:48.620 seriously wrong it wouldn't just be the people in in the building who would feel the effect yeah

00:15:56.060 and that's where you you kind of think does the government or people you know see the benefit

00:16:03.020 to the benefit of churches uh the impact that will have in the community and society and there's

00:16:07.580 there's a um there's i looked at this a number of years ago there's something called the halo effect

00:16:13.580 yes that if a it's a it's a way to try and ascertain if if a local church did not exist

00:16:23.400 what would be what would be the uh the negative impact to the community in terms of dollars is

00:16:30.020 this the cardist study that you're speaking of it it is similar to card is a little bit different

00:16:34.740 right okay but just saying you know what there what there is a place for faith there's a place

00:16:39.340 for faith in society and i i i feel like our society at large and our government is is almost

00:16:49.640 addressing that is there a place for faith and religion in society or not

00:16:54.360 and it's hard not to think that bill c9 is moving towards saying

00:16:59.940 uh there there will be a limited or controlled expression of faith in society and i i again

00:17:08.400 that's concerning. It's something that we've noticed before. There was a philosopher by the

00:17:16.800 name of Charles Taylor, a few years ago, wrote a book, and he talked about a secular age.

00:17:25.620 Is this what we're talking about, the secular age? People don't merely reject God. They don't

00:17:31.500 even have a concept of god you know i have not read as others like yourself i understand a lot

00:17:41.020 more what that what that means right a secular age um i would say there are there are people

00:17:49.060 that are and throughout history have been antagonistic towards christians hostile even

00:17:56.380 in fact perhaps yes um and i that's always been the case at the same time i do see and believe

00:18:05.060 that there are a vast majority of others others that are interested in the christian faith that

00:18:12.400 are interested in god and interested in jesus christ and so i i think they'll always be the two

00:18:18.900 the two end down.

00:18:22.740 Well, I bring it up because if our neighbors

00:18:24.440 in the broader sense,

00:18:26.920 other people,

00:18:28.940 aren't so much

00:18:30.100 lapsed Christians,

00:18:31.880 but

00:18:34.180 adherents to a secular

00:18:36.020 creed that sees nothing

00:18:38.000 remarkable in churches being

00:18:39.780 burned down, I mean,

00:18:41.780 other things get burned down, what's the big deal?

00:18:44.700 You know, how does

00:18:46.060 the church need to adapt to

00:18:48.040 a surrounding culture

00:18:49.300 that doesn't share

00:18:52.060 even basic assumptions

00:18:53.580 about God and them.

00:18:57.900 Do we adapt, in fact,

00:18:59.800 or do we just carry on?

00:19:02.660 That's a good question.

00:19:05.240 I mean,

00:19:06.020 churches have adapted in the past

00:19:08.320 to what, you know,

00:19:10.160 the society, whether it's secular

00:19:11.700 or other faiths,

00:19:14.460 you know, the churches has adapted

00:19:16.060 and morphed and

00:19:17.180 and will adapt and not not adapt in belief or but adapt in expression adapt in practice perhaps

00:19:25.800 but there's some things that always stay the same and um i but in another sense i think we continue

00:19:32.780 on the bible has not changed what jesus came to to instruct us to you know to live and how to

00:19:39.480 the mission that we have doesn't change and so in some sense we continue on as we have been and that

00:19:44.780 is to to do good to love your neighbor as yourself to love your enemies to um you know to be generous

00:19:55.820 to be pursuing peace to be pursuing unity and um and that that has been and then so much more could

00:20:03.660 be said about that about that is how christians operate that's what we are that's what jesus did

00:20:08.940 and that's what we are that we follow him and so that's what we do so uh in some cases we stay the

00:20:15.420 course and um and what we're finding is that there are there there are people that are genuinely

00:20:22.860 interested in scripture in the bible they um i talked to a gentleman the other day from uh from

00:20:32.060 Sikh background in Pakistan to a Muslim background in France and here and he wants to be baptized

00:20:40.360 and so we find people coming from a atheist background a another faith background and

00:20:50.800 that's just what we're seeing I'm not saying that is for everyone certainly but that's what we are

00:20:57.080 see on a on a continual regular basis and i'm hearing as well from pastors across canada

00:21:04.040 churches are growing i wanted to ask you about that you know that's what i'm hearing i'm hearing

00:21:09.720 the same thing i see articles of young people are coming back to church yeah do you see it at

00:21:14.200 center street we are yeah we are we are um i um what's the attraction yeah i mean i mean it used

00:21:23.800 to be that it wasn't going to church it's not an attraction now they're coming back what has

00:21:28.960 changed the society that is making a young man of 21 or 22 say you know what I'm gonna go in here

00:21:34.580 with the people who got to say yeah I I can just tell you what we what we're experiencing there's

00:21:43.060 a group of grade 10 students who regularly at their own initiative go out to malls and parks

00:21:52.540 and hand out bibles and in the past six months they've handed out 150 bibles to people

00:21:58.340 and uh they have not encountered someone who is rude or offended by that and um and so they're

00:22:07.140 living out there in an incredible personal way right open way appropriate way their faith i

00:22:13.680 talked with another gentleman about three months ago 22 years old the university of calgary uh

00:22:19.020 quickly his story. He did not believe in Jesus Christ, was not a Christian at all, was curious

00:22:25.360 about spirituality. And on his TikTok feed, kept on coming up things about Jesus. And in fact, he

00:22:32.200 hit the button that says less of these kinds of messages. But it just kept coming. It kept coming.

00:22:37.960 And he started being interested in who Jesus Christ was. He found his parents were aware of

00:22:43.320 that. He found his way up to a soccer tournament in Edmonton, and they stayed at a hotel. And there

00:22:47.420 was a Gideon Bible, a Bible in the hotel room. And his mom says, well, you should take that Bible.

00:22:52.540 And he said, no, I can't steal a Bible from the hotel. And his mom said, well, that's a Bible for

00:22:57.540 you. You know, anyways, long story short, he ended up knowing Jesus, giving his life to follow Jesus.

00:23:04.580 His parents are following Jesus and a 22 year old young man. And that's what we're seeing this year,

00:23:11.780 2025 um we've seen an increase and this is across the states in canada an increase in men

00:23:20.420 attending 43 of men say that they uh attend church interesting statistics hopeful statistics

00:23:29.300 good note on which to end okay so kent i really appreciate you coming in there's a wonderful

00:23:35.300 ministry that you have there at center street church and uh give you all encouragement but

00:23:42.260 i'm going to give you the last word and the last word would be how would you

00:23:49.140 with or without a building yeah does the church go on absolutely absolutely yeah the church is

00:23:56.180 not a human made by humans the church is something that god has instituted and it will continue yeah

00:24:01.780 thank you nigel thank you for the western standard i'm nigel hannaford

Western Standard - May 01, 2026

Pastor of Canada’s largest church raises alarm over Bill C-9

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