Western Standard - September 15, 2025


Paul St-Pierre Plamondon: “If Alberta Goes Independent, Quebec Will Too”


Episode Stats

Length

9 minutes

Words per Minute

144.61517

Word Count

1,418

Sentence Count

83


Summary

In this episode, I sit down with the Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau, to talk about his vision for the future of Canada's largest and most important province, Quebec. We talk about the need for a federal government that respects the sovereignty of its own people and respects the rights and liberties of its citizens.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 You know, as I've said, Alberta and Quebec both want decentralization and more power at home, but we tend to want different kinds.
00:00:08.560 Quebec more cultural, Alberta more physical, but we do to some extent.
00:00:13.660 Yeah, and things are changing.
00:00:15.120 I mean, I increasingly want more here.
00:00:17.720 Immigration is not just a fiscal issue now.
00:00:21.080 It is very much a social issue.
00:00:22.320 And so, you know, we've talked about where, so building those alliances, I find, has, you know, the two big decentralist provinces, to use that dirty word, but we've wanted different kinds.
00:00:36.600 And in large measure, that is why Meech Lake and especially Charlottetown Accords failed.
00:00:42.300 You know, Quebec and Alberta were the two leading areas of Canada that voted down Charlottetown, but we voted it down for very different reasons.
00:00:49.320 Yeah, Albertans and Westerners broadly voted it down because it was seen as creating asymmetrical federalism, giving special deals to Quebec.
00:01:01.720 And there was also some First Nations issues in it.
00:01:03.520 There was, you know, it was a huge, huge agreement.
00:01:07.240 But we voted it down for one set of reasons, being seen as overly appeasing Quebec.
00:01:12.720 Quebecers voted it down, at least as I perceive it as, it didn't go far enough in defending Quebec's culture and autonomy.
00:01:19.320 I know you prefer independence.
00:01:24.660 I prefer independence.
00:01:27.260 But, I mean, you've tried twice, didn't work.
00:01:30.260 We haven't even had a shot at it.
00:01:32.020 And even then, we'd have a, it's a long shot for us to achieve it.
00:01:35.920 Failing independence.
00:01:36.920 Is there some kind of grand bargain, we call it Charlottetown 2, that could...
00:01:51.080 Poor us.
00:01:53.460 Yeah, but like, if failing independence, if independence is not successful, is there a kind of grand bargain, from your perspective, that you think you could make, that would make the Quebec nation happy and content within Canada, that would work for you?
00:02:12.600 To the question, what does Quebec want, the answer is clear, crystal clear.
00:02:20.620 Quebec wants self-determination, democratic self-determination.
00:02:24.480 Why?
00:02:25.380 Because it's the only model that gives a future to our specificity, linguistic and cultural.
00:02:31.660 Other financial reasons have joined the reasons, but basically that's it.
00:02:37.580 So, I mean, the only reason why federal prime ministers engaged into such complicated negotiations and talks was that they felt there was a direct threat to their power and their regime.
00:02:58.040 They didn't do that in good faith because they just like to improve the life of Quebecers or Albertans.
00:03:04.000 So, it might happen that as Quebec's sovereignty movement, independence movement, grows in strength, and probably Alberta's same movement grows in strength, you'll find federal politicians nervous saying, okay, let's renegotiate in good faith.
00:03:23.700 I think we've been through that, and anything under self-determination in terms of our laws, our finances, and international relations will not work for Quebec because it will not work for our linguistic, cultural, and financial specificity.
00:03:41.200 However, once it's done, so once Quebec declares independence, I think if Alberta declares independence, Quebec will follow, same here, vice versa.
00:03:55.400 If Quebec goes, I think Alberta will say, okay, I'm also independent.
00:03:59.820 In which case, we will talk to each other about what framework would be useful on a number of topics, but without the federal trying to grab money and grab power and defend their privileges.
00:04:14.940 Without them, without interference and constant abuse of power since 1667, a constitution that we never voted or agreed upon, it's in direct link, it's really about the colonial regime for Quebec.
00:04:31.820 So, I think it's the other way around, you become independent, and a bit like Norway and Sweden or Slovakia and Czech Republic or in many, like, of course, in the following days, I will not be wanting to negotiate with the federal, I will want to negotiate with other provinces who think actually mostly the same thing as I do about how it should work.
00:04:57.120 It doesn't mean we agree on our priorities, but we agree that a framework that would show respect to our respective parliaments is much better than abuse of power based on an old and dysfunctional constitution.
00:05:14.400 And you have to add to that that we were, during the patriation of the 1982 constitution, we were totally out of it.
00:05:23.320 It's just the end of the contempt is a better start for a new framework than trying to deal with people who have been abusing their powers, begging them to stop abusing their powers.
00:05:37.600 And take the immigration situation.
00:05:40.600 So, Justin Trudeau, out of the blue, but not out of the blue, you had a group called the Century Initiative on Bay Street, they decided that we need to be 100 million Canadians, based on whatever fluke economics.
00:05:54.640 They don't consult anyone, they just start doing this by saying, hey, come to Roxham.
00:05:59.120 And they changed the criteria at the airport, they really sabotaged our immigration system that was working well.
00:06:08.240 They were warned by provinces, they were warned by their own public servants, you will create the worst housing crisis we've seen in decades, don't do it.
00:06:17.480 And they did it anyway.
00:06:19.280 So why would I negotiate with these people?
00:06:23.500 Why would I give them legitimacy?
00:06:25.480 They're abusing their power and they're toxic.
00:06:29.120 For the public good in Quebec.
00:06:31.160 And I think many Albertans are starting to think the same in regards of their conception of public good in Alberta.
00:06:38.720 So I'd rather have independence and then we make a deal and we talk because I expect collaboration to be ongoing on so many things.
00:06:47.460 Simply, we're used to it and there are so many things we can work and that's why I'm here.
00:06:52.100 So just to say, by the way, the door is open.
00:06:55.180 We have many things to talk about.
00:06:56.640 But going through a new Charlottetown or a new Meach Lake, I just don't see where it could lead that is positive.
00:07:05.440 I just don't see it.
00:07:07.680 Okay.
00:07:08.140 Well, I'm just going to sneak one last word because it's really quick.
00:07:11.500 You've convinced me on a lot of things.
00:07:13.740 So when you have that third referendum on independence, are you going to let Albertans vote in it?
00:07:18.160 Oh, I don't care.
00:07:18.720 Well, you know that the federal government cheated on the second referendum by bringing in people that were not from Quebec in order them to vote in a result that was so close.
00:07:29.680 Yeah.
00:07:29.800 So among the things that maybe people listening to us in Alberta know, I mean, they arrested members of the Parti Québécois.
00:07:38.500 They stolen the list of members.
00:07:40.520 They cheated during the patriation of the Constitution.
00:07:45.140 They cheated during the referendums.
00:07:46.800 I mean, at some point, yes, there could be some kind of solidarity or some common understanding of the fact that serving genuine democracy is serving public good.
00:08:00.220 And that's why when you're asking me about how the federal will react in terms of Clarity Act and so on, there's been so many instances where the federal cheated and was dishonest.
00:08:12.160 So I don't expect anything else.
00:08:15.460 And yes, some form of collaboration on the fundamentals would be useful.
00:08:22.940 And I think that's why I'm here.
00:08:24.480 I'm just your self-determination in Alberta is yours to determine.
00:08:29.280 And it's yours to decide.
00:08:30.740 And if you feel you have a common identity and common interests that are worth becoming a country, good for you.
00:08:38.720 And it's not for me to have a judgment on it.
00:08:41.480 But if I can be useful to democracy or if we can be useful to both our interests, economic interests in the short term and so on, why not talk instead of being in that weird equalization and federal framework where nobody agrees because the interests are just not compatible and the abuse of power is so constant it creates frustration.
00:09:05.080 So I think in a way, the reason I'm here is exactly that so we can talk at least and see what positive could come in the next decades, given the decade we just experimented under the liberals, federal liberals.
00:09:20.860 Well, I think this has been a fascinating conversation.
00:09:24.780 I think this is the kind of conversation, the whole dynamic of it is not something that Quebecers, Albertans, Westerners or Canadians broadly are very used to.
00:09:34.920 So I really appreciate you coming in.
00:09:36.360 And I salute all of those who listened.
00:09:38.800 And I might be back.
00:09:42.320 So there'll be other opportunities to think about this.
00:09:45.080 Our invitation is open.
00:09:46.400 We'd love to have you back.
00:09:47.680 Thank you very much.