Western Standard - Pipeline later, carbon tax now

00:00:00.000 good evening i'm corey morgan and you are watching the pipeline this is

00:00:28.720 western standards flagship show actually our oldest video production and it's a panel show

00:00:35.200 where we're going to break down the breaking and top issues and there's just so much going on this

00:00:39.440 week and we've shuffled our panels so that we have some different faces to at least one different

00:00:45.120 face to talk about these things and yes i'm sitting in our usual host derek fildebrand's

00:00:50.320 chair so to get into the issues and i'll just introduce everybody from my right to my left we've

00:00:55.040 We've got our former opinion editor, Nigel Henniford.

00:00:58.840 Still have opinions.

00:01:00.200 Ah, yes.

00:01:01.260 Director of operations in food reviews still.

00:01:04.920 John Sanders.

00:01:05.560 Fire chief.

00:01:06.120 And fire chief.

00:01:07.180 Wears many, many.

00:01:08.440 Fire warden.

00:01:09.180 Fire warden.

00:01:09.560 Not chief.

00:01:10.340 Don't promote yourself.

00:01:11.480 Well, I think, yeah.

00:01:12.740 I have to check what the building code is, but I am fire something.

00:01:16.580 Fire warden.

00:01:17.340 Okay, fire warden.

00:01:18.040 We're fine with fire warden.

00:01:19.620 And our ever-harried and overworked news editor at the end there, Dave Naylor.

00:01:23.620 Hey, Corey.

00:01:24.100 Good to be here.

00:01:25.040 All right, so we'll get into what's just been breaking now, and we're still chewing on.

00:01:30.500 It appears, Dave, that our government's going to have some different faces in the front.

00:01:34.160 We have a real-life cabinet shuffle going on as we speak.

00:01:38.480 As first reported by our publisher a week or so ago, Nate Horner is out as finance minister.

00:01:45.520 He's going to retire from politics, apparently.

00:01:48.880 And Jason Nixon is in.

00:01:50.940 So a big promotion for Mr. Nixon, who's never held any sort of financial position before.

00:01:57.880 Also out is Matt Jones, who had one of the health ministries.

00:02:03.480 And he is also not going to run for re-election.

00:02:07.400 So he's asked to step away from the cabinet, his replacement to be determined.

00:02:13.060 And 9.30 tomorrow morning, the premier will introduce the new members of the cabinet.

00:02:20.140 but no media allowed oh so yeah that's very strange there will be a pool camera well i'm

00:02:30.300 yeah i guess they really want to control some messaging right now i think they've got a message

00:02:34.940 to control yes so nigel i guess start with you what do you think the motivations of a shuffle

00:02:40.620 at this time might be well there's a few things it could be um if anybody is not 100 behind the

00:02:47.340 premier on her dealings with mr carnegie that would certainly be uh cause for removal uh i

00:02:55.660 don't know whether that is the case with either of the two who have uh have um let's say what it

00:03:02.620 is been sacked um another possibility is that it would deal with their positions on alberta

00:03:10.700 independence the premier is trying to walk a very tight line and i think she wants to be sure that

00:03:18.300 everybody who is in that inner circle is on exactly the same page as she was now again i don't know

00:03:25.500 that mr horner and the other chap were not but uh those are the kinds of things that as premier

00:03:32.700 i would be thinking about right now because the stakes are really high with the pipeline

00:03:38.540 with whether to put the question to the referendums on October the 19th.

00:03:46.100 So many things going on here, all the months.

00:03:48.280 Yeah, well, with a lot going on, I mean, Josh, there's always rumors.

00:03:52.860 I mean, do you think there's turmoil hiding back there?

00:03:54.660 I mean, this government's actually been pretty good as far as conservative governments go

00:03:57.740 without seeing too many cabinet ministers or others suddenly flying off the handle

00:04:01.520 or calling out the premier or anything like that.

00:04:04.180 But it doesn't mean that they haven't kept some hot words behind closed doors.

00:04:07.940 Yeah, and I think the timing of this announcement is a part of the story. It's, you know, on the eve tomorrow, they will be Daniel Smith will be likely having a televised address to the province on the upcoming independence referendum, whether they go along with Thomas Lukasik's referendum or tweak the wording is irrelevant.

00:04:30.320 In this case, I think there is a large, maybe not large, but a segment of UCP, MLA's, cabinet ministers, staff that don't want to see this referendum move forward.

00:04:42.980 And I think that's what we're seeing here is maybe not necessarily a public explosion, but something where, you know, the premier is trying to tighten up her ship, is checking loyalties and changes are being made as a result.

00:04:59.620 now we only know two are going two are coming out and one is going in we don't know the broader

00:05:05.780 shift of the shuffle we don't know um about any of the other portfolios i'm guessing that given

00:05:11.460 you have a subtraction of one um there will be some shuffling maybe they will add another cabinet

00:05:17.860 minister but i think uh this is just the premier kind of buttoning things up in cabinet and making

00:05:24.020 sure that everybody is on board with the line that she is walking which is like nigel said it's a

00:05:29.060 tightrope you've got on one hand those who seek independence on the other you have those who want

00:05:34.260 to remain in canada and i think what she's trying to do is walk that middle line of people who are

00:05:40.580 not necessarily ready to vote to leave but are you know not happy with the way things are and

00:05:48.660 they have significant grievances with the federal government so which which side these two mlas

00:05:54.260 go on is is or sit is a is a secondary question thomas lukasik of note uh tweeted earlier today

00:06:01.220 that neither horner nor jones support having an independence referendum at all and align with his

00:06:08.020 view that his quote-unquote citizen initiated referendum petition uh that isn't actually a

00:06:14.020 referendum petition somehow i don't know how the logic works on that but then again i'm not in

00:06:18.420 thomas's head but if that's what he's saying then i think there's a potential link that maybe these

00:06:23.620 two MLAs weren't supportive of the government's position and are resigning as a result, even

00:06:27.540 though their letters won't say that. Dave, have you seen if, I mean, you're stepping away from

00:06:33.620 politics, but there's two ways that would go. Does that mean one of them or both of them might be

00:06:37.380 saying, well, I'm out next week and we're going to need a by-election, or are they looking to write

00:06:40.420 it out in the back bench? I think Jones is looking to write it out in the back bench, and I think

00:06:45.220 Horner will likely want to go quickly. You know, going from finance minister to back bencher

00:06:52.020 it's a bit of a as a as nigel quite said it it's a sacking right and he he was also a uh kennedy

00:07:00.660 kenny era man and i i'm sure that's uh not lost on on people it's uh you know in terms of tightening 0.67

00:07:08.340 up the cabinet one less kenny uh follower the better i think for you know david it does seem

00:07:14.820 to me that the premier really needs some kind of public guidance in october to preserve her own

00:07:24.580 authority not just in cabinet but in caucus and in government if there is right now there

00:07:31.700 are so many people who are playing with the idea of separation independence

00:07:39.460 and they want to feel that there is going to be a result now if there is a pipeline approved

00:07:47.480 and we and we can take it seriously a lot of that support is going to fall away i have to

00:07:55.580 i have to think but the premier is hoping that the process that she's worked out with mr carney

00:08:01.200 last friday is going to give her that escape route we won't have to act on it because oh

00:08:07.020 everything's all right the independence numbers are down to 19 from 35 you know issue has gone

00:08:14.060 away but if it doesn't go away well then it would be great for her to have the voice of the people

00:08:21.980 speak and say what they actually want that gives her some options well i'm responding to i'm

00:08:27.580 responding to what the public is saying well i think there's this independence chatter this issue

00:08:34.620 it's going to dominate alberta for the next six months whether she calls a referendum to try and

00:08:39.740 put this to rest and settle it or not i i personally from what we're seeing it's going to go one of two

00:08:45.180 ways if there isn't something for that movement to shoot sink their teeth into the referendum then

00:08:49.660 they are going to turn on her and then it's going to be other battles going on that she's going to

00:08:55.900 have to be circling the wagons for all summer it's kind of a rock in a hard place you know

00:09:01.180 corey if i i'm sorry yeah i was going to say that i think i i do think that there is going

00:09:07.740 to be a referendum whether and again i don't know whether it's going to be on the kazik's question

00:09:12.460 or on uh a government uh sponsored one i don't know if we'll know that uh today we'll we'll find

00:09:18.780 out but um i think that the issue that the independent side has in this very moment is

00:09:25.340 you have a lot of the leadership that are are attacking the premier that are going after the

00:09:29.580 the premier for her lack of interest in what they're doing from their standpoint but if she

00:09:35.760 puts a referendum on the table and they continue to attack her when they have a clear objective

00:09:41.300 that they have to hit you have to win that referendum now and so if they're if you see

00:09:45.620 kind of that split where the grassroots membership looks at the direction that the leadership is

00:09:50.180 taking the movement and isn't talking about an independence referendum it's attacking the premier

00:09:54.460 trying to remove her you're seeing sylvester right now pushing people into the ucp like you

00:09:59.320 should be focused on what's coming and that's a referendum this is mainly not the way you wanted

00:10:03.600 it but it is very much a showing and perhaps even like having luke hasick's question on the ballot

00:10:10.500 where it's a not necessarily a constitutional question it's a policy question it might lower

00:10:16.760 the stakes a little bit and get more people showing up and saying like look actually i want

00:10:20.100 to send a message to the federal government i'm voting to not stay in canada because we need to

00:10:24.860 send a message to ottawa and maybe that's what happens but i think part of the issue that we're

00:10:29.220 seeing in the independence camp is is there even if they get their referendum they're going to turn

00:10:34.660 around and they're going to attack the premier and i think that's a missed opportunity because

00:10:38.580 you do have to be driving support to get the answer you want on that referendum question no

00:10:43.140 matter what you know if i if i may just comment on that uh and you probably know what i'm going

00:10:48.660 to say but it's if if you are in the independence camp you have to be really sure you know what you

00:10:57.780 want and why you want it uh we can all agree we've often said it from this there's this table

00:11:05.060 that the influence of eastern canada does alberta no good and it is the values as much as anything

00:11:12.900 that are implicit in the liberal governments that we've had which make people just want to

00:11:18.580 turn their back on the whole thing all the political correctness all the you know whites 0.76

00:11:23.460 not needed for in the army the the green stuff which you know is is hokum all of those things

00:11:30.260 are good reasons for albertans to be discontented but anybody i refer you to um judge leonard's uh

00:11:38.580 decision on the uh on the referendum uh that was to be prompted by 300 000 signatures of angry

00:11:49.540 albertans that should have been allowed to happen i view her um a decision as politically motivated

00:11:58.420 she probably would say otherwise but i that's how i see it so what i'm saying is that you

00:12:05.300 as a bona fide a peace-loving alberta independence seeker thinking to action the constitutional

00:12:13.620 mechanism that is available for a province that wants to leave talking about the clarity act

00:12:18.660 If you think that Ottawa is going to let you quietly do that and accept the results of a free vote and negotiate a peaceful exit with all our money, which keeps the rest of Canada going, so the narrative goes, I don't think it's going to work out like that.

00:12:40.620 So just how much do you want to put into this?

00:12:42.880 well i think i agree with that sentiment and i think that the federal government

00:12:48.080 they're going to interpret the clarity act however they see fit in that moment i think

00:12:53.280 that that's going like that kind of creates that deeper resentment and and it may shift a lot of

00:13:00.320 people that like we know that there's discontentment towards ottawa i mean that shows up every time we

00:13:06.400 go to the polls and elect you know 33 conservative mlas but or mps but at the same time like if they

00:13:13.520 continue to take this path it's going to harden support and and yeah maybe uh maybe it's not this

00:13:19.760 wave that gets to over the 50 maybe it's the next one like i think they're playing with fire here

00:13:24.080 they also have you know potential pq government in quebec to deal with that's watching this like

00:13:29.120 none of this is happening in a vacuum and i think the liberals are are hardening something where

00:13:36.240 And even this MOU, I don't necessarily think that's going to help, right?

00:13:39.480 I mean, it's a pipeline by 2034 is when they're expected to have it completed

00:13:44.120 in exchange for concessions on the carbon.

00:13:47.640 Well, I mean, they don't get built overnight.

00:13:49.340 The key date is approval, 2027 September, right?

00:13:54.440 And after a year-long and only a year-long review process.

00:13:58.980 But, you know, I think Nigel hinted on it earlier on. 1.00

00:14:02.520 I think Smith, not a stupid woman. 0.98

00:14:05.100 she's obviously been optimistic about the pipeline all the way through she i think she's uh optimistic 0.99

00:14:11.500 she can find a proponent uh and i think she's optimistic that she's going to have a have a

00:14:17.420 shovel ready proposal to to to give to ottawa to uh to approve by the end of the year uh and

00:14:25.100 hopefully before the referendum and that kills off any hope of independence yes i don't believe

00:14:29.900 whatsoever i mean the problem is another maybe another possibly another potential

00:14:35.420 the movement needs a yes it needs to see dirt moving it needs to see not more pushing this

00:14:42.920 this thing up i mean i could see progress on this slowing the movement absolutely but like as you

00:14:49.760 said maybe knocking it down to 17 i think oh what would happen there's a 30 that are done they've

00:14:54.540 had it they're ready to roll but it won't grow if it looks like there's progress on that i mean

00:15:00.700 they could get to the referendum and it's going to be a 30 vote uh they're not going to get any

00:15:05.800 closer to that 55 50 whatever they may think they need but they've got to see something

00:15:11.040 well that's another question too i mean they the federal judges have better watch it because they

00:15:17.060 might not care about alberta but when they tell us we can't do it they're also telling quebec they

00:15:22.020 can't do it and they're scared to come back so there's there's a lot of stuff at play but i don't

00:15:27.300 know if if the timeline works for premier smith right now she can't say well we got to defer this

00:15:31.980 referendum until we get a positive thing out of the mou and all that they're not going to wait for

00:15:36.780 that you know no no i wasn't suggesting that they defer the no i know the referendum that's still

00:15:42.280 going to go ahead in in october but if substantial progress is made during that time between now and

00:15:48.640 october you know look i mean independence has been the top total the top subject in alberta for

00:15:55.840 a year now a couple years now and it has not moved the independence movement very much

00:16:01.020 uh from uh you know from the high of the mid-30s that's maybe a lack of leadership but that's well

00:16:06.780 yeah i mean that that is certainly the case it's it's it's 100 the case and and it's it's a lot

00:16:13.020 easy to say you know when some random polling company calls you up and says yeah i've had

00:16:17.920 enough i'm gonna vote to leave uh to leave canada it's tougher when you're in that ballot box and

00:16:23.360 you're thinking wow this really could have the repercussions uh where's my canada pension check

00:16:29.200 yeah where's my canada pension check and that's the thing i'm not seeing from the independence

00:16:34.400 movement right now is any answers to any questions where's my pension check how is this going to work

00:16:40.800 how is that going to work actually it's all posted in detail through multiple meetings and

00:16:44.560 lawyers online but it doesn't seem to be getting it's not getting out the message isn't getting

00:16:48.720 out so um but yeah there's a there's a lot to be done if they're looking to change things i i just

00:16:54.960 the way the timeline is working i could see this if smith can balance it you've got to give him

00:17:00.000 the question to get it a little you're a federalist i mean you got to be sick of this talk and if

00:17:03.920 you're really that confident albertans don't want to go there's no other way to put it to bed

00:17:07.840 put it to the vote let it loose and then you can move on if you're that confident

00:17:12.960 and Freeman Smith could have that

00:17:15.200 where again, the announcement

00:17:17.120 she's looking at is by September or so

00:17:19.300 saying that we'll have our plan

00:17:21.300 that we will submit

00:17:22.200 that hopefully gets approved within a year

00:17:24.820 Right before the next

00:17:27.240 provincial election if I dated it

00:17:29.040 Well that would date well for it

00:17:30.460 If the referendum gets out of the way a month and some later

00:17:32.740 and then the talk is kind of on the shelf for a year

00:17:35.220 then she can focus on actually getting this thing

00:17:37.380 perhaps done

00:17:38.280 moving because now we're not talking about that

00:17:41.380 as an option or something that's in the background.

00:17:44.180 Okay, well, let me ask you a question, Corey.

00:17:45.980 If the independents vote fails, like I think it will,

00:17:51.060 how long does the issue go away for before it starts beating again?

00:17:55.760 Personally, I think a couple of years.

00:17:57.600 They're tired.

00:17:58.780 They're exhausted.

00:17:59.620 This would be a five-month campaign of everybody putting in everything they have.

00:18:04.820 They've already done four months of petitioning the hardcores have.

00:18:08.800 And, I mean, I'll say now, as a supporter of independents,

00:18:11.380 But as the board looks right now, some things have got to change dramatically if they're the hope to win it this fall.

00:18:20.640 And as a federalist, I'd be saying, let's just open this thing up and get it done.

00:18:25.620 I mean, they're still formally leaderless.

00:18:29.080 They got some other issues going on within.

00:18:31.860 There's potential vents happening.

00:18:33.660 Let's just get this thing done.

00:18:37.040 But if something adverse happens to me now, then I guess that's a risk.

00:18:40.440 if a new national energy program comes along or I heard somebody I think it was Andrew Coyne

00:18:45.380 talking about how the risks of this not to give him much credit for things if we remember the

00:18:49.220 Quebec referendum in the 90s support can change really fast over a little thing and there was a

00:18:54.240 scene of people dancing on the Quebec flag during the referendum campaign that infuriated Quebecers

00:18:59.460 and that alone probably shot it up by a few points yeah if I can jump into like I think the overreaction

00:19:06.020 by ottawa is something that we aren't really factoring in like we saw it with like them

00:19:11.220 shutting down the concept of a referendum in the using federally appointed lower court justices

00:19:18.580 to do so to me is an indication is that lord no no it's not longer it's medium

00:19:25.460 oh sorry it's medium size not well i mean just from context i mean i don't want to assume too

00:19:30.580 much about the way she thinks from past decisions but they are a bit of a pointer this is the same

00:19:35.860 judge who uh granted a restraint on danielle smith's policy of no sex change operations for

00:19:44.500 kids under 18. somebody challenged it she was the one who said the key with this judge is she's

00:19:49.540 true to appointed she's true to appointed i don't think she would have i don't think trudeau would

00:19:54.660 have appointed somebody who was one of us yeah that's agreed 100 but i think just like the way

00:20:00.660 that the the system is designed it's it's go like as we move the ball forward in this referendum

00:20:07.380 process i can imagine that the sentiment coming out of the rest of the country becomes more hardened

00:20:12.420 against alberta you see more anti-alberta stuff so i'm showing up on social media more toronto

00:20:17.620 star articles smearing whoever speaks out in favor of it i think that the reaction by the

00:20:24.660 stay in canada no matter what crowd uh will just it'll diminish the the people who aren't

00:20:35.000 necessarily separatists and are frustrated with the federal government they're they're the lost

00:20:39.780 cheap and if the federal government is coming down hard they vote well then that's how will

00:20:45.820 they vote i think is the question i mean do they go it does ottawa come down hard on on us or the

00:20:51.700 flip side is maybe the real mark carney stands up after the referendum loss maybe we see carney's

00:20:58.160 hammer maybe the pipeline deal gets rejected i don't know what happens after this card gets

00:21:02.460 played if if the referendum doesn't uh come off successfully so there's if i may throw one of

00:21:08.820 i don't know whether you want to move this in a different direction but carry on before we go

00:21:12.300 one thing about carney which none of us are giving him any um any credit for

00:21:18.240 he has a significant green caucus there are probably about two dozen people who think that

00:21:27.480 uh stephen gilboe had the right idea and that it's been terribly handled and they're very

00:21:33.880 suspicious of mr carney the banker the businessman you know what have we got in brookfield sir you

00:21:39.480 know that all that line of thinking and he's got a majority of about two and he's going to lose that

00:21:47.380 over the summer when they resign for different reasons one's taken a diplomatic post and i think

00:21:52.260 the other one just wants out so he won't even have his majority for very long so much as i

00:22:00.420 suspect his motives don't care for his policies and i'm highly suspicious of him i have to admit

00:22:06.100 that as a matter of political chess playing he's got a couple of knights and queens in the wrong

00:22:11.860 place at the moment uh and this has got to be a consideration for him if he came out and said look

00:22:17.380 pipeline let's go we'll we'll just let you start digging in september those scrapple the approval

00:22:24.620 process on you go that's obviously an exaggeration for effect but he is going to have trouble in his

00:22:31.800 caucus he'll find himself in another election before he's you know before christmas he's both

00:22:37.200 got balancing acts going on yeah there he's got a divided caucus smith to a degree must have it as

00:22:42.660 well i mean it's something i would see it kind of get back to what dave was asking what would cool

00:22:46.320 them down though is that private proponent can smith pull a rabbit out a hat some company that

00:22:51.760 has the means to say yes you know what we'll start committing to working towards this process we

00:22:58.900 believe this process will lead to an end with a pipeline thus we're raising our hand to say we'll

00:23:04.520 take part in it i think that would make because then it's not a politician talking it's somebody

00:23:09.580 with money in the game who's had the football pulled away from them many times already they

00:23:14.640 believe it enough to say, we will commit towards moving on this. And the closest I've seen so far

00:23:20.720 from business leaders is hope. Optimism. But she might get one.

00:23:26.080 You know, I mean, let's look at what is actually happening under our feet right now.

00:23:30.960 Bridger, the little pipeline company, Southpaw, has grabbed the KXL assets,

00:23:40.400 the pipe that's already in the line they pitched the u.s government with a permission to connect

00:23:46.560 that to um the system in wyoming trump signed off on it and when they've when they finish

00:23:55.280 completion which construction is supposed to start next year they'll be shipping 500 000 barrels a

00:24:01.600 day so that's one i i'm told by those who know more about this than i do which is just about

00:24:07.200 everybody but uh you know that's really a recommendation for what i'm about to say line

00:24:12.080 three and enbridge are optimizing and deep bottlenecking their lines and there's hundreds

00:24:17.520 of thousands of barrels per day that can that could be added to that basically the premier wants

00:24:23.600 to be export eight million barrels a day right now on a good day we do 4.1 so you know you put

00:24:30.160 together your bridger your line three your line we still need this pipeline for the last two million

00:24:35.600 barrels a day. Well, one of the symbolic victories that has been getting to bigger markets. I mean,

00:24:41.600 just still selling at a discount, though more of it at a discount to our sole customer,

00:24:46.880 it's good. But we've been yelling for a decade, we need to get it to the coast.

00:24:52.000 Yep. And just again, the symbolism of it is absolutely these are optimistic things. I mean,

00:24:56.480 it puts people to work, it brings in revenue to the country, to the province, but unless

00:25:01.360 somewhere to a deep water port we're looking at a pipe i think that's really what that's the point

00:25:06.400 i'm drawing on this is yeah they're the these people are sitting still they're not standing

00:25:10.240 back waiting for things to happen they're doing what they can and if it comes up something solid

00:25:15.040 that they can grab onto and say yes to they'll be there for it but with the indigenous component

00:25:20.880 crossing bc with a no tanker ban eb's hostility mr carney is going to have to show what the

00:25:28.080 canadian prime minister's powers are well that's the big if going on and that's that chicken and

00:25:32.720 egg because i think some companies aren't going to stick their neck out again unless they're

00:25:35.440 confident the prime minister is going to stop the axe from getting them again he isn't he's

00:25:41.280 throwing out a bunch of maybes and that goes back to nigel's point about his caucus like if he's

00:25:45.680 walking on knives edge which i think both i think like the mou in in the way it turned out is

00:25:52.640 reflective of both carney and smith kind of tight roping their own caucus like you've got potentially

00:25:59.280 i mean if we're right about if if thomas lukasic is right and nate horner and matt jones are

00:26:04.160 drawing the line on calling an independence referendum and that's why they're leaving

00:26:08.720 then on one hand she's got this pressure and carney's got the pressure from the left so you

00:26:14.320 get kind of this mishmash of a policy in the middle that they both agree to to keep everybody happy

00:26:19.680 and but carney's carney's the one who's laughing all the way to the bank like his poll numbers are

00:26:26.580 up like he's i and it's it's i don't like it's i don't i i don't know what the fix is i i don't

00:26:35.740 know how i i don't have any advice for pierre polyev right now i i'm i i feel bad for the

00:26:41.840 entire situation up there and so yeah i don't i don't know how things will get better given

00:26:48.480 that you know the political calculus in ottawa is the same you again like you said you've got those

00:26:55.080 green mla or mps in carney's cabinet they aren't going to let him go very far and if he starts

00:27:01.520 dragging his feet that's going to create more tension in it with uh the residents of alberta

00:27:06.920 maybe not the caucus or the cabinet i mean i don't know we'll see what happens after this

00:27:10.300 uh after tomorrow morning but i mean there's yeah it's it could potentially lead to a very

00:27:18.140 interesting october as we head through the summer with again like i get like we're we're talking

00:27:24.220 about pipeline approvals that are you know we don't have a proposal and we won't have an approval

00:27:29.500 again for another 12 months so we're pushing papers but again we're not pushing dirt like

00:27:33.420 that's what we need to see and if if we were pushing dirt like this should have happened

00:27:38.140 we should have had approvals for this like three years ago i think there was a pipeline in dubai

00:27:42.220 they approved and dave you might know the story better than i do aren't they building it in a year

00:27:47.740 i'm surprised it would be taking that long yeah i think it's something like that there are to be

00:27:53.100 fair okay they're just digging across a desert they don't concern themselves with human rights 0.91

00:27:56.860 and they can use slavery they don't paint around the bush i think the germans built uh lng plant

00:28:02.860 in just a matter of a few months.

00:28:04.580 109 hours.

00:28:05.440 Four days.

00:28:06.080 TC Energy had a project off Mexico.

00:28:08.740 I think it was 18 months from the time they made their first request

00:28:12.000 to the time they started running gas through it.

00:28:14.100 The Alaska pipeline took eight months.

00:28:15.980 I mean, not the Alaska pipeline, but the Alaska Highway, I should say.

00:28:18.640 But that's a big project.

00:28:20.200 If we want to get things done,

00:28:21.980 if the government can and is willing to get out of the way,

00:28:24.500 if they truly believe in the national interest, things get done.

00:28:27.840 Well, what if they move fast on Venezuela?

00:28:30.100 Like they're predicting five years.

00:28:31.340 what happens if they've got stuff up and running in two years and that you know it's like so we

00:28:35.020 have to worry about market share and all of this and once you lose market share you're kind of

00:28:39.720 hoping for like a catastrophe in iran to gain it back kind of a thing like you you lose market

00:28:45.400 share it's hard to build it back and i i do worry about the future of our industry still to this

00:28:50.480 day and i in my opinion the mou hasn't done anything to fix that the appetite for oil in

00:28:55.600 Asia will be just increasing and increasing and increasing for the next several decades.

00:29:01.720 Getting back to actually just a lot of something out of the blue that just kind of occurred to me

00:29:05.180 though, we're looking at caucus divisions and possible ways that conservatives love to blow

00:29:09.120 themselves up. A favorite is to form a new party. There's a lonely Pete Guthrie sitting over in the

00:29:15.100 corner of the legislature who would certainly love to grab a couple of wayward ex-cabinet

00:29:18.960 ministers or even other discontented people. Do you think there's any chance of that sort of

00:29:24.180 gong show erupting no zero especially as they're both retiring or leaving politics they say but

00:29:31.260 i mean you know we've heard liberals say they're going home to spend more time with their family

00:29:34.580 and then discover they're not like their family when they find a better opportunity that is true

00:29:37.660 warner coming out as a red tory uh would be quite damaging to him and drumheller stetler unless he

00:29:44.220 wanted to switch ridings and run somewhere in central calgary for guthrie i don't i think

00:29:48.880 corners uh i think he's retiring at the end of this term i think he'll be done um if he does go

00:29:54.220 to the what are they calling themselves now the united tory party united tory party because they

00:29:58.860 can't call themselves progressive like why don't they just call them the red tories like i mean

00:30:03.800 like let's be real here so yeah no i i i don't i don't think i'm not worried about horner going to

00:30:11.660 guthrie too much matt jones southeast calvary riding maybe he thinks he's got to play like if

00:30:16.440 is one of those like if the reason he is quitting is because he thinks that this this entire situation

00:30:22.600 is so damaging to his personal reputation that he has to exit stage right as fast as possible

00:30:28.520 maybe i'm just looking at risks to parties right i mean one way you can maintain unity to a degree

00:30:32.600 is if there's nowhere else for them to go yeah if there's not a home they can land in then yeah

00:30:37.640 maybe they'll just go home as as it appears but i i can speak a little bit to this from like

00:30:43.720 experience because i was helping rick strengthman in 2018 when derek fildebrandt came to us and

00:30:50.120 said would you join the freedom conservative party sorry derek we said no um so it's one

00:30:55.720 of those things where it's like yeah maybe there's a fit ideologically but from a political

00:31:01.080 standpoint i don't know i don't see the tories going anywhere no no so narrowly with guthrie

00:31:06.680 i just throw it out there i mean going back to our own experience too even prior to that

00:31:09.800 show my grayness, but when we had a lone MLA in there with, with Paul Hinman,

00:31:15.160 but these changed really fast or dramatically when suddenly we had Rob Anderson, we had Heather

00:31:19.160 Forsyth, uh, and, uh, Guy Boulier. Yeah. And now suddenly you've got this corner in the legislature

00:31:24.920 that's drawing funds and research and getting questions. It really only takes sometimes a seed

00:31:29.320 and then you get a real headache. Though I like to remind all our listeners and everything,

00:31:32.840 the ultimate end of that was four years of nothing. Yes. And then there was, but even when

00:31:37.160 kenny merged the wild rose and pcs together there was that small little rump that from a

00:31:42.280 job like rick fraser i think went and i don't know the sandra jansen ended up in the ndp yeah

00:31:49.400 i mean but they had this little wrong so i mean it's it's a risk um it's always a risk to

00:31:57.400 leave the government um but i don't know like it's it's going to be interesting to see how

00:32:02.840 this develops over time and whether horner and uh jones just kind of sit quietly in in the back and

00:32:10.440 work their way towards retirement i mean or if they do become thorns and public thorns in the

00:32:16.680 side but i don't know i think they're in a difficult position because i mean what are

00:32:21.240 they going to do endorse nenshi's position on on not having an independence referendum go ahead

00:32:28.120 but one thing you can say about them because there is no pension for serving as an mla at

00:32:36.040 least you can't throw that at any of them who they're not hanging on for the pension no they're

00:32:41.000 not john give them credit for a little bit of uh what's what's the word uh dignity in their beliefs

00:32:50.040 i'll give you credit for that yeah well let's turn the page a bit onto something that's been

00:32:54.040 kind of emerging in the north uh sturgeon lake cree nation i believe they go by uh they're

00:32:59.960 recently in the news because their chief was one of the ones challenging the the ability to hold

00:33:03.800 the referendum appears they feel they may have found their own personal cantaloups yeah apparently

00:33:09.720 the uh they're they're saying that they're uh they're missing 82 kids uh that went to the school

00:33:17.880 in the last you know back in the in the olden days so to speak residential school

00:33:22.680 and they think they found potential grave sites of 62 of them so cory here we go again

00:33:31.000 uh we uh we interviewed frances widdowson uh on it today and she'll she says the exact same

00:33:37.560 thing you will say the only way to deal with this is to excavate get a shovel

00:33:44.280 so yeah i mean whether this is a uh a ruse to get money which the kamloops tribe 0.81

00:33:52.200 They certainly did. They got, I think, close to $13 million and haven't done anything with it, except I think they've opened up a museum or something.

00:34:01.780 So whether this is just a ruse to get some more money, we'll have to see.

00:34:05.980 We'll have to see if any level of government falls for it again.

00:34:10.420 Well, I mean, the world doesn't seem to be falling for it this time, though, right?

00:34:14.100 Like, I mean, we've got a jaundiced eye from the public, I think, at this point.

00:34:18.200 it's only you know insensitive souls like me and francis widowson to come right out and say there's

00:34:23.420 nobody buried in kamloops and and put that on but also those who really were saying banging that

00:34:28.160 drum that there was people buried they've at least gone silent and this revelation from from sturgeon

00:34:33.820 we're not hearing much of it if i could provide a suggestion to the university of lethbridge

00:34:39.420 administration if you really want to uh save your reputation as an evidence-based institution you

00:34:46.600 can fund the excavation yourself they kicked you out didn't they i know i graduated but they might

00:34:52.920 take my degree can they do that could they take my degree back they could strike you off the rolls

00:34:59.640 i don't know let's not keep on the universe it's not like you're doing much with it yeah exactly

00:35:08.280 there's those different people shonegan lake celebrates that barry cooper went to their school

00:35:11.880 i don't think they mentioned that i was yeah well nobody watches even derek so

00:35:19.720 so here's the thing with this story from sturgeon lake are are the indigenous leadership out there

00:35:27.080 claiming that these are children who were murdered or is it just that they they don't know which

00:35:35.320 grave belongs to which paperwork because they're asking for the paperwork from the federal government

00:35:39.480 need the records these are our children well you know the way things were done and 30 40 50 years

00:35:47.080 ago the simple wooden cross that would have been placed upon the grave would have eventually rotted

00:35:53.320 and withered and been cleaned up and sure enough there could well be graves there but does that

00:35:58.680 does not mean that there is something terrible or malicious it merely means that eventually the

00:36:05.080 grave became overgrown and uh but we knew that so-and-so died and that's where they that's where

00:36:13.400 they put them somewhere over there there's no there's there's no doubt children died at indian

00:36:18.120 residential schools but they had a little thing called the spanish flu to deal with they had

00:36:22.840 tuberculosis to deal with and kids died of that right everywhere yeah well you know across canada 0.89

00:36:30.040 of people died from that not just indigenous children so yeah the life for a settler wasn't

00:36:35.140 exactly you know what we have today i mean they were living on the land like i i mean i can look

00:36:40.420 at my own family tree and i'll see you know kids died at 11 7 in 1919 or you know somebody fell off

00:36:48.940 a bridge you're like i mean life was just more perilous and your mortality rates were higher i'd

00:36:53.860 like to see the i mean they they're confident that 82 children have been located and maybe in 62 on

00:37:00.860 mark graves at the site but again like are they saying that they were abused in the system and

00:37:07.060 that the system is the reason that they died or is it just you know they're just even bringing it up

00:37:13.900 that's what they're hoping people think oh they must have been they must have been murdered or

00:37:18.360 anything like you know stuff like that but on the bright side we're not seeing mark carney with a

00:37:23.420 little teddy bear on one knee uh ordering the uh flags to be lowered this time yeah that's what

00:37:29.680 i'm saying is the world's not jumping to attention with this this time nearly as as much it's like a

00:37:35.500 oh we'll see what happens no i don't i don't think you'll see any international media jumping on this

00:37:40.040 one well it was originally a port uh reported by aptn news which is the group that's tied to the

00:37:46.860 current uh we'll call it a developing scandal out of ottawa where a aptn news partnered with cbc

00:37:56.540 entertainment division and uh brought dr francis widowson lindsey shepherd and a few others i think

00:38:03.020 you covered it on your show earlier today corey so i mean i don't know if maybe this announcement

00:38:07.740 is a direct reaction to that because they're wearing a bit of a black eye right now publicly

00:38:12.220 and it's coming from aptn news like this is not being reported related to what their beat

00:38:17.500 ostensibly would be too they are the aboriginal networks so but i mean they'd be the first to

00:38:22.540 get on that i guess i noticed on the story as well though that the rcmp has said that yeah

00:38:26.860 we're not having anything to do with this that's a note that a lot of people don't mention but the

00:38:31.420 reason that the rcmp never dug in kamloops is because there's no evidence of murders you know

00:38:37.180 the rcmp's mandate i mean people we've seen all those stories twists and turns oh culturally

00:38:41.340 they're not allowed to in it no no it doesn't work that way i can't murder somebody bury them

00:38:44.940 on a reserve and say sorry it's all done you can't go they will go in yeah they will exhume

00:38:48.940 and they will arrest or investigate but if there's no evidence that there was actually a crime yeah

00:38:53.500 they're not going to spend the resources and the time to dig a hole oh that's the sandbox is 0.92

00:38:57.900 bullshit well i i'm not taking that bet hey just because derek's here doesn't mean you can't swear 0.54

00:39:03.340 oh sorry you see it looked like john could get away without having to edit and and you didn't 0.97

00:39:08.380 even give them that one week breeder man sorry guys sorry what if you would have thought it'd

00:39:15.900 be me who would have done that i actually was expecting it i had to yeah call yourself a fire

00:39:21.500 warden all right well let's see we're getting into the last few minutes here uh we'll see what

00:39:28.060 happens up in sturgeon lake i mean you know it's not impossible but we just need to see more evidence

00:39:33.180 you know more than just that's all anybody has ever asked for show us the evidence and then

00:39:38.220 they'll take it from the league zoom do it as donald trump said dig baby dig yeah something

00:39:45.180 like that uh maybe they'll find hoffa all right never know so we'll start with some parting shots

00:39:55.020 on that uh note of tastelessness uh sure i'll give you one so i have quite a few people from

00:40:02.860 the military environment to email me what what's going on in the military and i guess it's uh

00:40:09.580 i guess it's really hard if you're a white guy to join the army they they'll take your

00:40:15.340 application but they'll put in a separate pile while they go off to find the people they want

00:40:20.540 to hire so that there is this picture of the armed services as a microcosm of the society

00:40:29.020 they want canada to become so if they're you know every demographic group is percentage-wise

00:40:38.300 represented so what what the emails coming in are saying is that in order to get

00:40:43.980 the visible minority proportion that they want for canada they have been recruiting

00:40:51.660 and the deal is that if you sign the if you take the king's shilling you'll get canadian

00:40:56.300 citizenship they've been recruiting in cameroon and ivory coast so you have to ask yourself

00:41:03.500 what kind of a cruel joke this is on everybody involved but in order to get the candidate you

00:41:09.980 want represented in the armed forces you have to go abroad to find one of these and one of those

00:41:15.900 and we need some from this country so that you have the appearance what a way to run an army 0.75

00:41:22.620 we're gonna lose a war well yeah like what happens like do they speak english no so like

00:41:27.820 what happens if like it well some of them speak french well they're coming from french okay so

00:41:32.220 we've got like we now need all of our like lieutenants all the way up to generals to speak

00:41:39.740 every language you know message across after colonel i believe you have to be bilingual but

00:41:44.460 you like when you get to carol just so you know the rules you're not allowed to comment on people's

00:41:48.780 parting shots oh sorry they're going a long time yeah i know you're a newbie

00:41:56.220 interesting and no swearing yeah all right well what have you got josh it's a party um

00:42:02.780 not much it's been a crazy week uh i'm interested to see the rest of the cabinet shuffle um we know

00:42:10.700 obviously the two names that are leaving we're pretty confident that jason nixon is the one

00:42:16.700 going in i'd be interested to see whether uh some other ministers are shuffled around tomorrow

00:42:21.980 um that's something i'm keeping an eye on um and and then obviously the big news will be the

00:42:28.060 independence referendum um and presuming just presuming that that is what uh premier smith's

00:42:35.500 addressed to the province is about tomorrow so yeah i'll be keeping an eye on that but i don't

00:42:40.140 have much else great i'm going to steal one that nigel had in mind and i hope i can remember it

00:42:46.300 word for word because it was pretty good uh we heard news this week that the snowballs snowballs

00:42:53.100 see even i did it the snowbirds uh jet acrobatic team uh being uh mothballed i mean the planes

00:43:02.620 are old there's no doubt about that they're they're falling apart there's no doubt about that

00:43:07.180 but apparently they're being replaced by prop planes so only in canada do you go from a jet

00:43:14.940 airplane to a prop airplane and call it progress yeah certainly moving forward how'd i do there

00:43:20.460 nigel i remember pretty well you you got it exactly yeah all right well i'll close it off

00:43:25.100 just something i ranted a bit on my own show but still floored me i don't know why i allow myself

00:43:28.460 to get floored anymore but let's talk about the beauty of state-funded media the bbc put out this

00:43:34.140 sob story with the sad looking man if you look it up online saying he's selling children selling

00:43:41.100 children to survive, Afghan fathers forced to make impossible choices. So they're talking about,

00:43:45.600 and they profiled a couple, a gentleman was selling two of his daughters, this gentleman's

00:43:48.800 selling one of his daughters, because they can't make ends meet, and they're poor, and they're

00:43:52.560 going to sell their five-year-olds into sexual servitude, and apparently it happens all over 0.82

00:43:56.100 Afghanistan. The BBC paints it as if this is a tragedy that these guys were courted into,

00:44:01.180 despite, I don't recall, the Irish potato famine fathers selling their daughters or anybody else,

00:44:05.100 it seems to be kind of unique to Afghanistan. How low do you have to get to try and put a 0.60

00:44:10.560 sympathetic eye on men who are selling their

00:44:12.580 children. The BBC managed

00:44:14.640 to do it.

00:44:16.620 All right. Well, on that note...

00:44:18.780 Happy, happy times.

00:44:20.700 Well, yes. There's going to be

00:44:22.540 happiness somewhere. So, just so as you

00:44:24.640 know, you don't have me next week.

00:44:26.520 Okay. Well, that means we're stuck with

00:44:28.660 Josh for two weeks in a row now.

00:44:30.320 We'll see if Derek lets me on the air again.

00:44:32.100 We'll put you in your obscenity training

00:44:34.340 with the shock collar next week.

00:44:37.080 Josh,

00:44:37.520 the beep.

00:44:38.540 it's been proven effective and as we know there is no hr department here well it's me so if i put

00:44:46.020 the collar on it's my own fire warden and hr yeah you wear a lot of hats my friend i actually start

00:44:52.340 to wonder what derek does around here okay time time to kill a team we're gonna find out if he

00:45:00.320 does watch this show the email will be incoming yes all right well thank you all for helping

00:45:09.260 dissect this hornet's nest and mush of miss issues we've got today guys and uh i'll see some of you

00:45:15.160 next week not you enjoy the breather and again thank you to all you guys for tuning in one more

00:45:21.680 reminder the reason we can pay all these folks even with that half-ass hr department is through

00:45:27.680 your subscriptions. It's $10 a month, a hundred bucks for a year. Get on there guys. Western 0.97

00:45:31.460 Standard News slash subscription keeps us rolling. Let's us get that news as it's breaking and

00:45:36.460 interpreted for you on shows like this after it is broken. So thank you all very much for tuning

00:45:42.560 in. Subscribe to those channels. We'll be breaking the news as soon as we find out about it and

00:45:46.580 sharing it with you.

00:45:57.680 We'll be right back.

Western Standard - May 21, 2026

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