Western Standard - Rachel Gilmore vs Alise Mills debate on free speech

00:00:00.000 G'day and welcome. Today is July 31st, 2025. I'm Derek Vildebrandt, publisher of the Western

00:00:20.300 Standard. We're coming to you live today. I'm in our Calgary headquarters here, but I'm going to

00:00:26.440 bring in Elyse Mills, coming to us from an undisclosed location on beautiful Vancouver 0.98

00:00:32.640 Island. There she is. Thanks for joining us, Elyse.

00:00:38.620 Hello. So happy to be here. Best part of my day.

00:00:44.740 Yeah. Okay. Well, let's just talk about why we're here. It's not quite windy.

00:00:49.720 Yeah. I don't have time for many shows, but we're doing a little special one today.

00:00:57.320 you know why why don't i leave it just put it to you to introduce why we're here

00:01:07.320 hello well we're here today um because uh a not so well known until quite recently country music

00:01:16.920 singer from california i wanted to come into canada and play several venues from west coast

00:01:25.560 to east coast east coast to west coast and our government agencies representatives of our

00:01:31.240 government elected officials city hall uh every level of government tried to block him from playing

00:01:38.440 his music in this country and the argument that they gave was that it if it was not aligned with

00:01:46.760 their government whether it was the federal provincial or municipal aligned with their values

00:01:52.120 not aligned with our public spaces values i wasn't aware that our public spaces have values

00:01:57.800 but uh and so it ironically has turned into this very important discussion around the charter and

00:02:07.800 the gentleman's name is faust as you know your publication today printed one of my opinion pieces

00:02:14.920 about why it's amazingly ironic that a country music singer from California schooled our

00:02:22.840 government, our politicians, and what the Constitution really, or what the Charter really

00:02:27.500 means in Canada. And so we're here today to talk about those who have tried to silence

00:02:32.080 him and believe that the Charter is handed a permission slip instead of it actually being

00:02:39.300 So everybody's right to say what they want to say, do what they want to do, write what they want to write until it edges hate speech and willful promotion of propaganda, which this gentleman isn't even close.

00:02:53.560 So that's why we're here today. And I will then bring in the other part of why we set this up today.

00:03:01.340 If you want, I don't know, Derek, you want to talk about it, but I had been reading a former journalist, former journalist, Twitter, I guess, X.

00:03:11.540 Her name is Rachel Gilmore. She is a former pundit and now runs, I don't know what it is, her own channel. 0.57

00:03:18.320 And she was saying some of the most egregious things, which I believe to be her attempt to spread misinformation at best, disinformation at worst, and what the Charter really means.

00:03:29.780 And it was through the lens of Sean Faust coming into Canada.

00:03:34.560 And it absolutely infuriated me, Derek.

00:03:37.960 I couldn't believe a person that constantly, a woman that constantly talks about her education, her background in journalism, could get the Charter so wrong. 0.97

00:03:47.820 And then also manipulate it and twist it so that it fit her political persuasion. 0.99

00:03:53.680 And this is something I've been seeing in Canada or happen in Canada for a long time now.

00:03:58.900 We're not just on a slippery slope.

00:04:00.660 The whole edge has given out.

00:04:02.580 And so I challenged her to a debate.

00:04:05.000 I said, if you feel that strongly about your position and you can back your tweets or back your posts, then I'd like you to join me in a debate.

00:04:13.200 And that's when Western Standard and yourself, Derek, or you entered the conversation, said we'd be very happy to host it.

00:04:22.280 And so that's why I'm here today, and unfortunately we're here today.

00:04:26.780 Okay, so yeah, we, yeah, I kind of entered, you know, Derek enters the conversation, where it kind of ended, I guess.

00:04:36.480 I said, you know, Western Centre would be happy to host the debate. Now, I can understand why, you know, kind of a hard left personality might have be leery. But, you know, I've hosted debates before. I hosted a UCP leadership debate where I privately definitely had favourites. Some I like a lot more than others.

00:04:57.020 But I think I've been a pretty fair moderator and host on these kinds of things.

00:05:05.400 Even when, I mean, every moderator has always got a favorite.

00:05:10.140 And I don't care if you're debating your favorite color.

00:05:11.920 You've got your own favorite color.

00:05:13.760 So we promised, you know, to use her words, a safe space to, you know, have this out.

00:05:21.160 You know, she thinks it's fine for the government to just ban a musical act simply because it's Christian and conservative.

00:05:29.440 All right.

00:05:30.080 Well, I mean, you should probably be willing to debate.

00:05:32.560 I don't think I've ever actually seen her.

00:05:34.880 Somewhere in her life, I'm sure she's actually had a public debate where she's actually had to defend and be challenged and defend her ideas.

00:05:41.940 But I've never seen it myself.

00:05:43.420 It's always just a couple of mean girl tweets.

00:05:46.740 I don't think so, Derek.

00:05:48.280 Yeah, I've never seen it. So what we did is we invited her to the debate. She kind of snarkily declined. Is her right? Fine. But we said, well, we're going to do it anyway. So what we're going to do is we're going to schedule it for 2 p.m. Mountain Standard Time, 1 p.m. Pacific, where you are. And we sent her a private invitation. We sent her a link.

00:06:13.140 said like if you'd like to join us

00:06:14.740 here's the link, you can join us at any time

00:06:16.700 we're going to be there at 2pm

00:06:17.740 I'm not expecting her to show up at this point

00:06:20.880 but hypothetically Rachel Gilmore might 0.99

00:06:22.680 pop into the stream

00:06:23.700 I got production over here, John

00:06:25.460 I think I was copied on that, yeah we sent her the link, right?

00:06:28.940 Alright, Rachel Gilmore's got the link to the back end

00:06:31.260 here where she can enter the stream

00:06:33.120 at any time

00:06:34.380 right now I don't have to be

00:06:37.480 a neutral moderator

00:06:39.440 so we can both just shit talk and see

00:06:41.140 whatever we want really right now

00:06:42.520 But if at some point she decides to enter the chat, join the debate, you know, I promise to be as best as I humanly can, neutral and fair moderator and let the two of you at it.

00:06:56.680 I mean, that's good TV. That'd be good TV to see the two of you go head to head on this issue.

00:07:02.560 I doubtful we will, but instead we're just until or if such a time as she were to join us, I think we're going to have a discussion about the dangerously authoritarian trend in this country and across the Western world more broadly, but we'll talk about Canada more specifically, to just censor those we disagree with.

00:07:28.020 And also, but the need for those of us on what is normally the receiving end on the right to be aware of when we're trying to do it.

00:07:36.920 So, you know, we've got this FOICT Act, as I said on the pipeline yesterday, I'd never heard of them.

00:07:43.160 Never heard of them before this.

00:07:45.760 I doubt most, like if I have not heard of them, they're probably not well known at all among the broader Canadian public who don't pay as much attention to politics and the news.

00:07:54.220 But now everybody has heard of these guys.

00:07:58.020 set on the pipeline again, I'm not a big fan of Christian rock. I find it a little too on the nose 1.00

00:08:02.780 for the most part. I haven't liked a Christian rock act since Creed. But it doesn't matter if 1.00

00:08:09.040 it's good or not, or if you like it or not. We traditionally in this country have not been in

00:08:14.560 the business of banning musical acts that we disagree with. So maybe let's talk maybe one,

00:08:20.300 it's a UK, I think, example, where we're going to flip it around on its head, where we have to be

00:08:26.560 the defensive so there was uh there was a concert recently in the uk maybe it was glasgow um and

00:08:33.280 there were two acts there that um people on our side of the fence would find extremely offensive

00:08:40.080 and distasteful putting it mildly um i i can't remember do you remember the names of these guys

00:08:49.200 do you remember the names of these guys at least there's a little delay i think uh so

00:08:52.560 so it's kneecap they're an Irish band and they are they were playing at a BBC

00:08:59.940 or they were playing at a London music festival and actually it was I can't

00:09:08.580 remember what was in celebration of it was some sort of national I believe it

00:09:12.440 was the national holiday there and BBC was live streaming it and jury and they

00:09:17.800 were obviously anti not only anti-israel but i believe anti-somatic and that is my opinion and

00:09:27.080 they came right out and started chanting death to the idf death to israel and then but the bbc was

00:09:34.440 sliding it so bbc similar to the cbc taxpayer funded and they didn't cut away and people you

00:09:41.240 could tell people the presenters other people were horrified and that has led to the ban from

00:09:50.280 shows across the eu uh uh being banned um in the united states and i will say that i have written

00:10:04.040 and posted several times to our government and so I find it ironic that they've come

00:10:10.380 out and immediately tried to ban Sean Faust. Meanwhile, this is a hateful group who has

00:10:19.680 nothing pleasant to say whatsoever. And I would say quite pleasurable. Happily.

00:10:28.360 Oh, okay. So we've lost Elise there. She's had a pretty rough internet connection.

00:10:33.820 And she's going to be back in.

00:10:35.880 But, yeah, so at least we've had troubles with your connection.

00:10:40.480 I don't know.

00:10:42.040 I'll say something.

00:10:43.140 Maybe if you could try to strengthen your signal, if that's possible.

00:10:48.960 You know, what kneecap this band was saying at a concert in Glasgow.

00:10:56.340 I thought it was hateful.

00:10:58.080 I thought it was obviously anti-Israel.

00:11:01.320 Obviously anti-Israel chanting death, death, death.

00:11:03.820 I can hear myself now. Okay, there we go.

00:11:07.820 Chenin, death to the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force. 0.97

00:11:12.360 I think they probably were anti-Semitic, but I don't think that language in itself is technically.

00:11:22.000 It's fine to very much dislike a state or a government, even to hate a state or a government.

00:11:30.260 I'm not sure I use the word hate, but I have a pretty strong dislike for some regimes or I'm not sure about states themselves, but certainly some regimes around the world.

00:11:40.700 You know, I hate the People's Republic.

00:11:42.500 You know, if I chanted death to the People's Liberation Army, I don't think that necessarily means I mean death to all Chinese people. 1.00

00:11:51.220 Now, did these guys mean death to all Jewish people?

00:11:54.200 yeah maybe they did but i you know i want to be cautious about uh you know conflating the

00:12:01.320 difference between dislike or even hate of israel with hate of jewish people although there's a

00:12:06.460 pretty big overlap you know affair um but you know there were some calls on the right uh and

00:12:12.720 from jewish groups to ban these musical acts and to censor these musical acts and i and i thought

00:12:17.860 that was that was the wrong way to go about it uh you know if you're the concert organizer you

00:12:24.520 have a right to not have them and i think they probably shouldn't have had them but i uh i would

00:12:29.680 have had a bigger problem i bigger problem with governments intervening to uh pull these guys

00:12:37.480 off the air or stop them from from playing their concert um i would have had a bigger problem with

00:12:42.700 that than actually the act of these guys performing. However, probably and arguably

00:12:48.220 hateful their content was. And what we call hate, I think one of the big

00:12:55.980 promises here is what actually is hate? We used to draw the line at hate as

00:13:00.240 actively inciting violence or harm against an identifiable group. You know, if you said,

00:13:06.680 kill all the jews okay that's hateful uh we said kill all the muslims kill all the christians 1.00

00:13:13.260 well all the traditionally christians have not been allowed to be included because it's seen

00:13:17.140 as a majority privileged uh group if you if you buy into that stuff but it was pretty clear that

00:13:21.660 was hate but now you know then it went to you could say i'm not a big fan of x y group and

00:13:28.040 then that got banned and i think you should be allowed to not be a fan and say you're not a fan

00:13:32.160 of a group and maybe that is an odious opinion but guess what it's an opinion and that should

00:13:36.900 be defensible in a free society and if it's a bad opinion we should let the marketplace of ideas

00:13:42.080 hopefully the good ideas went through they don't always um but now it's not even just i'm not a fan

00:13:48.100 of that group it's um i have something negative to say about an individual who even belongs to a

00:13:53.620 group um and so you you get the types like rachel gilmore the federal government parks canada

00:13:59.840 municipalities provincial governments where it's not that's not the line of hate anymore it's um

00:14:06.480 you've said something that i find disagreeable that does not agree with my ideology at all

00:14:12.360 and then that's hate and we can cancel it i think the problem is we have moved the line on what is

00:14:18.180 so far and i i think i've gotten to the point where we cannot trust anyone to draw the line

00:14:25.440 on what is legally defined hate and perhaps we have to drop the idea of hate speech laws altogether

00:14:31.200 because the state simply can't be trusted to draw the line in a responsible place anymore

00:14:35.680 well you said a couple of things derek and i hope you can hear me because my headset's now

00:14:40.540 not working because i flipped to my phone okay great so let's just remember that unpopular or

00:14:48.680 distasteful or contrarian ideas and opinions don't immediately mean hate. This is where

00:14:56.260 people are confused. If you are offended, turn the TV off, disassociate from X, do whatever you have

00:15:05.060 to do. But you are not to ask the government to intervene on something that doesn't meet the

00:15:11.120 standard of hate speech or willful promotion of hate, which is the propaganda side. And to give

00:15:18.180 you an example of that, that would be burning flags, inciting violence, things like chanting

00:15:28.180 death to Canada, or standing outside of a Jewish nursery school or nursing home yelling death to 0.83

00:15:34.860 Jews. That is hate speech. And I think the reason why people like myself are so irritated, and I do

00:15:41.800 agree with you, I may have to put up with kneecap coming to Vancouver. But it makes my blood boil.

00:15:47.860 And I think it makes my blood boil and others' blood boil as well because of the huge disparity in what this government is willing to accept and almost agree to and sign off.

00:15:59.980 You look at what's happened in Toronto on Bathurst.

00:16:02.320 You look at downtown Toronto.

00:16:04.300 Last weekend, Scotiabank was covered in red paint and they were screaming death to Canada, death to Jews. 1.00

00:16:12.860 i think a lot of us are wondering okay so how is sean banned he's not burning flags he's not

00:16:19.720 inciting hate he's a christian musician that is that is singing in a peaceful worship type festival

00:16:27.200 that's exactly what's going on um i i as you know i i may not i don't know his music i don't think

00:16:34.080 it's my thing either but that's not that's not the point of all of this and i think the points

00:16:40.400 you're making Derek about kneecap are absolutely true but I think my tolerance and many of people

00:16:45.580 many of the people I speak to and my followers all agree that when we're watching what's been

00:16:51.440 happening in places especially like Toronto I I the tolerance for anybody for any hate is is zero

00:16:59.060 and it's because there is a huge gap between what the government says what the government does and

00:17:05.620 what our criminal code says and what our police officers do. And I have an intolerance for the

00:17:12.000 tolerance of that type of hate. I also think that certain people like Rachel Gilmore really believe

00:17:18.780 freedom of expression is a progressive perk, that it's not a constitutional right for all of us to

00:17:26.120 have. And I think that is something that's becoming increasingly obvious. It's almost like she

00:17:32.540 believes or her ilk believe that there's almost a political purity test to see if you pass so that

00:17:37.900 you can have the privilege of having your rights around freedom of expression and speech and i

00:17:43.140 think that's where people have really lost their minds on this issue and when i say lost their

00:17:48.120 minds i mean they're just extremely angry and outraged and i think the pendulum has swung

00:17:52.560 governments are not going to get away with censoring uh for no good reason and our public

00:17:58.360 spaces do not do not supersede or the government does not supersede the charter so you know i was

00:18:07.080 talking about hate laws and you're talking about hate laws but the censorship of foict here is not

00:18:13.080 been done under the guise of hate laws there's a lot of hate rhetoric around it there's uh you

00:18:18.760 know the the justifications around it in many cases oh rachel's joined us look

00:18:23.400 um the big picture oh there we go come on we don't need that much too much i was excited

00:18:32.820 too too much rachel that's a lot of rachel maybe her connection's about as good as yours

00:18:38.840 um um but you know the censorship of foict here uh hasn't been done through the criminal code

00:18:46.840 with hate speech laws hasn't been done by the human rights commission

00:18:49.800 kind of the traditional venues of the state censoring in Canada. It's been done largely,

00:18:56.180 for the most part, by pulling permits. Permits that were all approved, as far as I'm aware,

00:19:02.180 before they ended up landed in this country. There was Parks Canada once with some federal land,

00:19:08.740 provincial land, places under municipal jurisdiction. And Parks Canada put out this

00:19:16.240 mealy-mouthed statement. They didn't say, this is hate, and we're shutting it down and prosecuting

00:19:21.620 it. They put out a statement saying, well, we can't guarantee the safety and security of the

00:19:25.980 place. Bullshit. Okay. But then they had this mealy-mouthed part attached to it that says,

00:19:30.980 you know, it's not compatible with Parks Canada values. You're talking about this and diversity.

00:19:38.020 I mean, the only diversity Parks Canada should care about is biodiversity.

00:19:41.980 But if they're going to care about diversity, no one ever cares about diversity of thought,

00:19:45.000 diversity of opinions, diversity of perspectives. If we're talking about diversity of religion,

00:19:49.260 it's certainly never Christianity. You know, that never seems to fit into the mix. But 0.98

00:19:54.760 they were pulling permits. Some municipalities, like I think Quebec City, Montreal, the mayors

00:20:03.060 just said, this is hateful and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, not compatible and not welcome in our

00:20:08.540 city, which is funny because Quebec is probably the has the most discriminatory laws in North

00:20:14.000 America on the books. And I don't see much resistance from the mayors of Montreal and

00:20:19.260 Quebec City towards extremely discriminatory legislation against Muslims or against

00:20:26.020 Anglophones in Quebec. They're quite happy with that kind of discrimination. And fine, whatever.

00:20:33.480 Quebec's going to Quebec, and I've stopped caring. It's their own place. But 0.83

00:20:38.400 um you know they're quite happy with it on on their own terms uh and so but but they did it

00:20:44.960 under the guise of permit so then you know they they found a way around it and fine we won't do

00:20:49.400 it at a regular concert venue we're gonna we're gonna have a concert inside of a church uh they

00:20:54.300 didn't even bring in this is in montreal and they didn't even bring in um additional sound equipment

00:20:59.300 i've seen it reported at least they just used the stuff the church already had uh so there was

00:21:04.940 No, it was just like a pretty much a regular night.

00:21:07.580 Churches do operate outside of strictly on Sunday morning at 10 o'clock.

00:21:12.440 And now they're fined by the city of Montreal.

00:21:17.160 I would imagine if there's even a half competent judge and half fair judge, that's going to get defeated in court.

00:21:24.400 I think the Canadian Constitution Foundation is fighting on that one.

00:21:27.400 These guys are not fighting under the strict hate speech laws anymore.

00:21:31.500 They're just using, you know, permits and whatnot to disrupt it.

00:21:37.780 I don't know if there's any defense to that.

00:21:39.580 I mean, we get one of the problems with democracy is you get the government you deserve and people elect people.

00:21:47.500 Presumably the politicians in these places think it's going to make them more popular to do this.

00:21:52.800 And I'm not sure when you're when they're fighting through the permitting phase that there really is any kind of defense against this.

00:21:58.160 when you have an electorate

00:22:00.220 that's willing to reward politicians

00:22:02.080 for this kind of behavior.

00:22:04.520 Well, I think a great example

00:22:07.460 of where this has gone completely off the rails.

00:22:10.780 So Abbotsford, BC had a scheduled show

00:22:13.740 or Sean had a scheduled show there.

00:22:15.780 Abbotsford pulled the permit,

00:22:18.480 which is shocking because you might know this, Derek.

00:22:21.240 Abbotsford has one of the largest Christian communities

00:22:23.960 in all of British Columbia.

00:22:25.440 I was surprised to see Abbotsford do something

00:22:27.380 so explicitly anti-Christian. Yes, and their reasoning for it, and this is something that I 1.00

00:22:33.900 think that we need to take a look at, and it really falls under the file of intimidation,

00:22:40.600 but, and I want to say that the BC conservative MLA out there has written a letter, made a

00:22:46.500 statement, I have reposted that, and I absolutely 100% agree with her, and unfortunately her name

00:22:51.400 is slipping my mind, and I apologize, but they were saying that they weren't pulling it because

00:22:56.820 they disagreed with sean and his music and they didn't feel that there was any evidence of hate

00:23:02.420 contrary to what the premier um was talking or premier eby was was remarking on yesterday that

00:23:07.540 he said that it was unacceptable unacceptable values well we can get into sean's lyrics in

00:23:13.300 a second because there is no hate or unacceptable values in his music um but the problem abbotsford

00:23:20.260 has is that they're responding to safety concerns they cannot assure the safety of sean

00:23:25.300 or those in attendance and i think when you know what was was a strong intimidation factor threats

00:23:34.340 of violence there for concert goers or festival goers smoke bombs were released that's really

00:23:40.740 dangerous there were lots of young people in that crowd uh so now we're talking about the 0.78

00:23:45.780 intimidation as well and when low information voters and i don't mean that to be derogatory

00:23:51.780 even though it sounds that way but canadians are busy trying to pay their bills they're not

00:23:56.060 necessarily paying attention and they trust i think a lot of people still trust what their

00:24:00.580 government is saying so if the government is going out there saying we don't want this guy

00:24:04.420 playing he's a dangerous guy which is what some liberal mps this is how this all kicked off uh

00:24:10.500 which some liberal mps were calling him dangerous and hateful if i heard that and i wasn't in this

00:24:16.260 business and i wasn't actively pursuing information i would think yeah then of course

00:24:21.320 the government wouldn't make a statement like that unless it's true what's it so it's verbal

00:24:26.120 intimidation it's asking you to to just avoid him he's a bad guy because he has these values

00:24:31.360 and then now the outcome of that is you've almost endorsed people to hate him and you've endorsed

00:24:39.240 what is will become acceptable violence because when you shrink away and pull the permanent permit

00:24:44.040 you're giving over to that very small group of people who seem to be the loudest in the country

00:24:49.780 right now um uh to take it it's the illegal behavior that we see in our cities as well

00:25:00.420 have blocked roads and stopped ambulances going through we are acquiescing to the illegal and

00:25:07.540 sometimes violent behavior yeah uh so that's a break in the charter yeah sorry your stream is uh

00:25:16.100 getting a little rough again um it was good for a bit but it's getting a little rough again um

00:25:25.460 yeah i i i don't know i don't i don't think i'm not sure there's a good way to defend this anymore

00:25:30.180 um i mean the um i mean this mostly started from the cbc the cbc did some hatchet job on uh

00:25:37.860 on FOIT here, and it just said he's anti-LGTBQ plus 2SI.

00:25:45.760 Maybe I got the full alphabet acronym, right?

00:25:48.540 I don't know.

00:25:49.660 They said he's a Christian nationalist.

00:25:52.660 Well, what does that mean?

00:25:53.600 Does he mean, you know, he believes that America

00:25:55.920 was founded as a Christian country, because it was.

00:25:59.900 I mean, it was a secular state,

00:26:01.180 but it was populated by Christian people.

00:26:05.060 Like us, like Canada.

00:26:07.860 Yeah, just like Canada.

00:26:09.900 But, you know, anti-LGBQ, 2SI plus XYZ.

00:26:15.700 What does that mean?

00:26:17.100 They didn't elaborate.

00:26:18.700 I mean, maybe he said something nasty there.

00:26:21.260 But, I mean, that could mean something as simple as saying,

00:26:24.720 I don't like drag queens dancing in front of little children. 1.00

00:26:31.600 And the CBC would consider that to be hateful and anti-alphabet stuff.

00:26:37.860 I mean, maybe he said something worse than that.

00:26:40.260 I haven't seen it.

00:26:41.280 Maybe he's got songs about it.

00:26:43.620 I haven't heard it, perhaps.

00:26:46.400 But they didn't provide any examples of this stuff.

00:26:49.860 They just said, he is anti this.

00:26:51.780 He is this phobe.

00:26:52.900 He is this, that ism.

00:26:55.120 They didn't actually demonstrate any of it.

00:27:00.720 Well, they took on the CBC took on the persona of lobbyists.

00:27:04.540 that article was not written with journalistic integrity in my belief it was written with a

00:27:11.420 political agenda meant to influence government wholeheartedly and full-throatedly to block him

00:27:20.000 from coming in and i would love to do a deeper dive on who who who the person was that wrote

00:27:27.580 that piece um and how somehow parks canada got involved in this i will tell you and i have spent

00:27:34.940 a lot of time reviewing sean's music the issue is not sean's music if you listen to it it's very

00:27:41.020 what you would expect i mean derek if you and i pranced off to one of his shows to one of these

00:27:47.260 festivals we would see a lot of swaying and hand holding and love and he's very charismatic it's

00:27:55.100 what he has said on his social media and he has said as a christian i do not want drag a drag queen 1.00

00:28:04.220 reading to my children at the public library and i'm paraphrasing here um he hasn't used hateful

00:28:09.660 language i get what i would say is hateful language in the in the terms of you know inciting violence

00:28:14.860 or anything he simply has given his opinion and by the way if he was canadian he is allowed to do

00:28:21.260 that he is allowed to say controversial and statements he's allowed to give that opinion

00:28:30.540 he can people aren't going to like it but it doesn't it doesn't go into hate speech or the

00:28:37.020 willful promotion of of you know hate propaganda or whatever it is and that's the other thing people

00:28:45.820 are confusing criminal code all the time in this conversation um so it's what he's been saying and

00:28:53.500 he has what we would expect eric very traditional christian values there's a lot in there i don't

00:29:04.780 but you know he has the right to say it i feel that uh this this demonstrates the power that

00:29:13.180 that the CBC has in the ability to influence,

00:29:16.700 and it also demonstrates the CBC's role

00:29:20.260 in taking a very activist type role.

00:29:24.460 I'm not interested in the CBC

00:29:26.380 becoming an activist journalist outlet.

00:29:29.020 You know, I'm not willing to pay for that.

00:29:31.640 Well, too late, it has been for a very long time, I think.

00:29:37.320 Okay, well, let's, maybe we'll steer this back

00:29:39.580 towards Gilmore.

00:29:40.900 Um, I mean, she doesn't deserve the attention she gets, but she's kind of, uh, you know,

00:29:48.300 she's become kind of a symbol of, she's fun to pick on because she's an idiot and she, 1.00

00:29:56.200 she comes across some ditzy and I, she's actually kind of leaning into it, I guess,

00:29:59.860 the bubble pop thing.

00:30:01.300 Maybe that would have been cute if you're like 20, you know, 20 years old in university

00:30:05.900 or something and you have lots of likes, ums, you know, like you do the kind of the Valley

00:30:10.580 girl thing maybe you'd play then but uh you know you're also trying to pass yourself off as a

00:30:15.900 serious journalist uh now i don't think she's held a journalism job for more than a week and

00:30:20.380 i i don't know how long it's been a long time i think uh but she wants to try to pass herself 1.00

00:30:25.820 off as a credible professional journalist um but then both her content and the presentation of that

00:30:34.220 content is is so juvenile like the content is like first year university breakout seminar like just

00:30:45.020 repeating like uh well you know you're just repeating kind of a like a really

00:30:49.420 ditzy version of what your professor told you um kind of regurgitating that um

00:30:55.740 so i know she she gets more attention than he deserves she doesn't have a very big audience 0.95

00:30:59.420 uh she hasn't held a job in a credible media organization in an extremely long time now i

00:31:05.580 think at least by by the span of her own career i think she's probably been unemployed longer than 1.00

00:31:09.900 she's been employed as a journalist but uh but she's she's kind of fun for us to kind of keep

00:31:17.740 going back to because she's just so stupid and uh and and she's easy to pick on so you know i i do 1.00

00:31:25.580 do worry sometimes about picking on these folks that maybe we're being unfair towards kind of a

00:31:31.040 whole broad side of the spectrum because we got we've got idiots on our side too and i i hate it 0.87

00:31:36.460 when they pick on our art but you know they could pick on our ideas and it's all fair game um so i

00:31:42.160 don't want to smear everyone on one side is like that you know there are liberals a very small

00:31:47.780 number but there there are still some traditional liberals who might hate the sound of something

00:31:54.100 but will defend to the death your right

00:31:56.240 to say it. Mostly in the States

00:31:58.060 for prominent ones. You've got guys like Bill Maher.

00:32:01.480 You know, he's a liberal.

00:32:03.140 Increasingly, he actually

00:32:04.000 sounds pretty middle of the road

00:32:06.320 actually, but he's traditionally was

00:32:08.040 considered a pretty hard liberal for a long

00:32:10.340 time. But, you know,

00:32:12.060 you've got him,

00:32:13.780 maybe John Stewart-ish

00:32:16.460 a little bit.

00:32:19.080 But for the most part,

00:32:21.180 the left has lost all sense

00:32:22.280 of humor. They've lost any sense of that free speech is for anyone except for your own mealy

00:32:30.320 mouth, politically correct speech. And the left has lost this. But that's an old story. They lost

00:32:36.820 it a long time ago. So maybe we don't want to retread that too much. But maybe we'll go back to,

00:32:42.060 you know, the dangers on our side, because you can't police the other side's commitment to free

00:32:47.720 speech but you could police your own side's commitment to free speech is there anywhere

00:32:51.780 you see maybe on our our side of the aisle where maybe we're a little bit weak on this and we

00:32:58.840 maybe we need to be a bit tougher and on guard against uh ourselves trying to censor people on

00:33:04.480 the other side well i think we begin actually with our rachel gilmore's there's many of them

00:33:11.120 and I call them the YouTube tech bros and Barbies, right?

00:33:15.580 During this election, we seemed to grow an amazing amount of voices,

00:33:23.260 which I was so happy about, especially the 18 to, you know, 48 or whatever that demographic is,

00:33:29.740 them coming out, speaking, wanting to talk policy.

00:33:32.600 I love all of that.

00:33:33.720 But what also emerged was a cottage industry, and that's an old-fashioned term,

00:33:39.220 but the cottage industry on youtube of conservatives that were proclaiming to be

00:33:44.780 policy experts constitutional experts um and they were you know they they all kind of look like tech

00:33:51.740 bros and the girls look like you know kind of barbie and they're they are inciting anger and 1.00

00:33:58.440 inflaming anger in a way that i haven't seen and i find it um i've been really ticked off derek i've

00:34:05.120 seen some of this stuff and then and then they're infighting with each other they don't know policy

00:34:10.580 they've incited uh convoy number three or whatever over some random issue that really wasn't a

00:34:18.120 constitutional matter it was so stupid i can't even remember what it was now but here's the problem 0.79

00:34:23.680 rachel gilmore her type on the left the people i've just identified this whole industry on youtube

00:34:31.420 where you know some of these commentators who we've never seen you know as a staffer a journalist

00:34:38.680 an opinion writer a pundit suddenly have emerged as these experts and people are listening to them

00:34:44.020 our people are listening to them but for both sides what really concerns me is how much

00:34:51.020 the need to monetize every word they're saying is influencing what they're saying and I think we've

00:34:57.320 just traveled down a really dangerous road you know I as you I'm not being paid to sit here

00:35:05.440 today and I'm very happy about that I'm here to talk about the freedoms that are eroding in our

00:35:09.780 country I'm here to speak on the charter something that I wouldn't say I'm an expert in but I have a

00:35:15.120 fulsome understanding of I understand how legislation is made I understand how it's passed

00:35:20.060 I understand how our parliamentary system works much like you Derek you and I both come from very

00:35:24.440 similar backgrounds we have experience and background in that and i would never take

00:35:30.680 money or promote myself to monetize untruths and that's a real concern and i'm not suggesting

00:35:37.160 gilmore is in that financial relationship but we all know there are many others that are in that

00:35:43.240 business and they're using tick tock they're using youtube and they are they they're sort of drumming

00:35:49.160 up these fake conspiracies as well and that whether it's coming from the side that rachel's

00:35:55.960 on or our side that weakens our country it's intended to break our country and no matter what 0.99

00:36:03.240 i still believe in this country i think it's got more than a fighting chance but it's up for it's

00:36:08.280 up for up to all of us to start contradicting some of that pushing back on it i'm an equal

00:36:14.360 opportunist i'll take my own out as quickly as i'll take rachel gilmore's statements out

00:36:18.200 Well, where I wanted to go, though, was not just like our equivalents of Rachel Gilmore, who were kind of idiotic TikTokers on the right side of the spectrum. 0.99

00:36:27.340 I want to talk about, you know, maybe where are our blind spots for free speech on the right side?

00:36:33.620 You know, like the left, I think it's pretty fair comment to say the left is clearly much more censorious than the right.

00:36:41.280 But I do see some worrying signs on the right where the right's trying to silence views on the left or from other groups that it disagrees with.

00:36:51.820 I have a harder time coming up with ready examples because there are a lot less, but I think we need to be on guard for that.

00:36:57.940 That's why I kind of started us off with the kneecap example.

00:37:01.500 I think around the Israel-Palestine issue, I think there's an instinct from some on the right to want to censor those with a pretty hard anti-Israel view.

00:37:14.520 And I think we need to be on guard for that.

00:37:18.400 Now, sometimes it does go into outright hate, and that's different.

00:37:21.480 But I know, as I said earlier, I don't really have faith in the state to actually fairly draw the line on what is hated or not anymore, because they just push it one way or another, depending on who the group is that they favor.

00:37:33.180 So I kind of lean towards maybe we just don't have the government draw the line anymore because it's so unable to be trusted.

00:37:40.040 I see it a bit on the Israel-Palestine issue as a reflex on the right that tries to censor the other side.

00:37:47.320 is there and you could talk about that if you like uh but also if you know is there any other

00:37:52.460 areas or examples where maybe we need to be on guard against uh the right trying to censor the

00:37:58.680 left or other groups where we're in disagreement with i i'm gonna be fully self-aware i have

00:38:07.920 struggled anytime i see the anti-israel thing i'm immediately there have been times where i've

00:38:12.800 lost my mind on on x or twitter whatever you want to call it and i've had to self reflect i've had

00:38:18.860 to pull myself off of it and go i can't look at any anymore um i'm outraged a lot of the time and

00:38:25.300 then that question that you're asking is something i've asked myself as i've not only you know was on

00:38:31.120 the show with you yesterday and we're here today and i've written the op-ed for the western standard

00:38:34.880 that caused me to reflect on where i have started to uh control speech and i had to look at my own

00:38:43.040 root cause and the reason i'm bringing this up is i bet you there are people watching right now

00:38:47.120 uh that either follow me or follow you or both of us that could probably say the same thing about

00:38:53.060 themselves is that the moment that you see the other side and and you're seeing some of this

00:38:58.520 most horrible imagery i'm going to use bathhurst as the example the the the effigies um the the

00:39:06.440 absolute hate speech um i'm shocked that this is my country so when i see that it ignites me

00:39:13.960 and being a human being i want to shut them up and i ha i'm not taking the time to think okay does

00:39:20.600 that how far deep into hate speech is this uh or to the criminal code i should say uh am i stopping

00:39:27.640 their charter rights and it hasn't really been until the sean issue showed up that i've had to

00:39:32.680 really self-reflect so i want to start with me because i really feel they're speaking to me

00:39:37.720 there derek is watch ourselves right and i would say israel is the top issue i have a hard time

00:39:45.480 finding any other example on the right and i would say i mean everything from center to more

00:39:54.040 hardliner right um i have a hard time finding another example where i've seen any conservative

00:39:59.880 uh shut down free speech but israel is definitely a achilles heel it's a soft it's the soft 0.97

00:40:07.640 soft underbelly and i think that anger and that willingness to shut someone else's charter rights

00:40:13.960 down is because we feel like ours have been shut down yeah uh you know as you're talking i was

00:40:20.760 thinking uh maybe i have another example imperfect because i uh well i'll try not to be a hypocrite

00:40:29.080 here i want to be try to be honest with myself our viewers and you um you know uh and it's quite

00:40:35.640 adjacent to what just happened with foict in montreal because we've all seen the videos of

00:40:40.280 these public islamic prayers uh in the streets of montreal and i'm conflicted on that one it could

00:40:47.240 go either way i'm not a muslim i have no sympathy with it uh but i do believe in the right to public

00:40:55.560 prayer even for a faith i don't share or in some cases have very strong disagreements with beyond

00:41:02.200 just a theological level i'm talking on a cultural level um now you know islamic prayer if it's in a

00:41:10.680 park it's in an area where you would have a concert or something and they want to do that

00:41:13.800 you know i'll be honest with myself i don't like it but they're here it's their right to do it

00:41:21.720 so okay and i think i need to rein myself in from you know my own instincts to be like no

00:41:28.340 that doesn't belong here it's alien to us and we should stop it and so we have to kind of rein

00:41:34.600 that in on ourselves now the public prayer where they're doing it in the middle of the street

00:41:38.940 blocking traffic with no permit

00:41:41.320 and no fines were levied for not

00:41:43.300 having a permit

00:41:44.040 inside of a church

00:41:47.320 private property no

00:41:49.260 disruption to anyone except for the opponents

00:41:51.180 of them going and they

00:41:53.280 get the fine but yeah

00:41:55.140 if you do these Islamic prayers in the middle

00:41:57.200 of the street blocking traffic no permit

00:41:59.020 it's not like a designated parade or something

00:42:01.380 or protest

00:42:03.180 okay but

00:42:05.160 then we have to be prepared to

00:42:07.260 apply that to ourselves but we apply that to christians or mainstream canadian society quebec

00:42:12.140 society etc uh although that's not really a christians generally don't shut down an intersection

00:42:18.140 and start kneeling and whatnot that's it's not a it's not our bag but you know we we have to be

00:42:23.900 careful to apply carefully across the board but i i would see that as a potential soft uh underbelly

00:42:30.780 as well, where we need to be

00:42:32.760 on guard against being censorious ourselves

00:42:34.960 to, you know,

00:42:37.620 actually within Quebec, they've

00:42:38.820 passed laws that are

00:42:40.820 kind of on the surface neutral against

00:42:42.800 a wearing of religious imagery,

00:42:45.220 but we know what it's about.

00:42:47.220 Like, wink, wink, guys.

00:42:49.100 We know what it's about.

00:42:50.700 And so, and that's kind of the Quebec Nationalist

00:42:52.920 thing, which is, nationalism's

00:42:54.940 traditionally a phenomenon on the right, but that's

00:42:56.840 not really necessarily the case in Quebec. It's

00:42:58.840 more mixed and maybe even dominantly on the left but yeah i know i i would see that maybe as another

00:43:04.240 area where we need to be self-reflective and there i agree is a place to stop things like

00:43:08.140 you know holding a prayer of that kind outside of a church outside of a catholic church blocking

00:43:14.240 the street i think that's meant as a sort of political religious or cultural intimidation

00:43:19.840 and saying this is our place we're the dominant yeah active religion here now maybe not in numbers

00:43:25.160 but in terms of active participants you know islam is possibly more powerful in montreal now

00:43:30.380 than catholicism at least as an active cultural and religious force um i i think they were sending

00:43:36.520 a message there but so anyway i i'm not sure where i think it's intimidation yeah uh an intimidation

00:43:44.700 again where are we drawing the line so not all intimidation should be illegal

00:43:48.400 overt intimidation should be well i i think that i think honestly uh you're right okay so public

00:43:57.460 prayer yes you're you're charter right but what i'd like to invite all of us maybe to do is um

00:44:07.940 why don't we all try and block a inter a very popular intersection with our christian prayers

00:44:13.820 or our Jewish prayers, I invite all faiths to maybe join us and see how very quickly,

00:44:21.040 very quickly, the VPD or Toronto Police or Montreal Police would remove us, or even Calgary

00:44:26.880 Police, since Calgary couldn't, wasn't willing to stand up for Sean either, contrary to what

00:44:33.480 people may understand. I think we do get caught. This is a blind spot for people like myself,

00:44:39.380 and i and i'll and i'll throw myself out there to the wolves the when i'm looking at it i know it's

00:44:45.780 an attempt for social engineering i know it's intent to influence and to uh to there is and

00:44:54.020 you can't deny this there is a movement to uh change our society to to be to reflect more islamic

00:45:04.420 values. I'm happy to debate that as well and to discuss that. But when you watch it, your

00:45:13.100 immediate response is you understand what it is and you forget about the charter. And I think

00:45:20.900 you're bringing up really great points, Derek, because you're making me self-reflect. You're

00:45:24.780 making me think about this as well. I think it's been, I don't think the right has really been

00:45:32.320 caught on its back foot in regards to free speech or freedom of expression which by the way free

00:45:37.160 speech is hidden in there and um uh under free freedom of expression but um you are bringing

00:45:44.540 that up and that's something that we need to be really aware of because the people that we were

00:45:48.860 just talking about people that have styled themselves as influencers on the right they have

00:45:54.400 they themselves i think that is the achilles i think that's actually where that problem around

00:46:00.780 freedom of expression uh that you're talking about where we're not properly

00:46:08.380 ensuring that we understand charter rights apply there that is where it's growing the

00:46:12.860 most common and um you know i i think today you've reminded me to catch myself as well

00:46:19.580 but i was very quick to point it out with everybody else right so uh you know and

00:46:24.220 that's normally how it goes but i think it also and i will say this it's easy for conservatives

00:46:29.180 whether they're big c or small c conservatives fiscal conservatives social conservatives are all

00:46:34.140 types of conservatives to when they see these moments happening whether it's bathhurst or it's

00:46:39.660 downtown toronto these massive uh prayers it's hard for them not to see uh that even you know

00:46:47.340 a couple of years ago or even maybe now they would be removed uh from blocking that intersection they

00:46:53.260 they wouldn't be allowed to walk around with, you know, effigies or yelling hate, you know,

00:47:01.060 death to any other religious group. And it's got conservatives twisted up. Like I said,

00:47:08.300 no matter whether you're conservative, fiscal, social conservative, whatever, what we all seem

00:47:11.980 to share is this libertarian streak and also this belief in our fundamental freedoms and liberties.

00:47:17.560 And we understand that there's two tiers of justice and two tiers of charter that's happening

00:47:23.140 in this country Derek and I think that's the better question to ask because I think conservatives feel

00:47:27.840 stifled I think they feel they can't say anything about it without being labeled a racist or

00:47:33.320 intolerant um and it and that has enabled people that would normally be the first fighters around

00:47:41.020 charter rights to shrink back from that and say well but they but we can't get away with it and 1.00

00:47:46.860 they can't. So maybe I'm going to take a different track now about where this might go.

00:47:58.460 You know, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

00:48:04.940 I feel like our side is fighting with a hand tied between our back.

00:48:10.960 And I don't know how long that lasts. And, you know, the opponents of freedom of expression never stop to think that perhaps the laws we've passed today or the intimidation tactics we use today to silence our opponents could ever be used against us.

00:48:29.820 and you see that with totalitarian right-wing regimes totalitarian left-wing regimes or even

00:48:38.180 ostensibly democratic societies like ours when you've got the center left in power the center

00:48:44.420 right no one ever stops to think could this be used against us and it's not just free speech

00:48:49.500 it might be accountability laws a government might change the law to make the government less

00:48:53.460 accountable and everyone thinks that's great you know like this is gonna be advantageous to us

00:48:57.300 politically. But chances are, you're not going to rule forever. No regime lasts for all time,

00:49:02.300 except in Alberta. But, you know, you never stop to think the other guys are eventually going to

00:49:09.240 be in power. And they might use these laws or these tactics against us. But on freedom of

00:49:15.800 expression, for a very long time now, as long as I've been alive, and I think longer, it has been

00:49:21.960 the left that has been the more censorious kind and it's become more and more extreme and it means

00:49:28.500 that we can win some battles but aggregate we're on the losing side because we don't use the same

00:49:33.800 tools the same tactics does this inevitably lead us to a place where we're not defending to the

00:49:43.280 death your right to say something i disagree with because you won't defend to the death my right to 0.68

00:49:49.140 say something that you disagree with. If this is a one-sided, for freedom of expression to work,

00:49:54.800 it has to be a grand bargain, collectively made as a society, as a body politic, as a state,

00:50:01.220 that this applies to everyone. But when it doesn't apply to everyone, eventually,

00:50:05.660 if this is a one-sided bargain, stops being a bargain, and it will collapse. And so I foresee

00:50:14.360 at some point our side is going to stop being the the side tolerant of freedom of expression and

00:50:20.760 it's just we're going to start we're going to untie that hand and what do you think the tipping

00:50:27.240 point was for when conservatives and and i'm part of this i have to admit i've i've committed a few

00:50:32.840 offenses along my along the way too when it came to israel but what do you think the tipping point

00:50:37.480 was because i think it was was it bill c63 which was the if you're thinking of a bad thought we'll

00:50:43.720 know about it and we'll come and arrest you legislation um for me i think that was the

00:50:48.960 tipping point in our in our conservative conversations well i mean that was no i i

00:50:55.540 think that was uh the conservative side broadly speaking i think was still in the no we're

00:51:01.000 defending free speech what i'm talking about is at what point does the right side stop being

00:51:06.800 this benevolent defender of free speech because we see it only applying to us tolerating them but

00:51:13.540 them not tolerating us and if and if and if that bargain only goes one way eventually our side is

00:51:20.260 going to say well why should we be noble defenders of your rights when you will not be no noble

00:51:24.820 defenders of our rights and so in in the long term i i i can see it is is entirely plausible that

00:51:32.340 our side uh stops and and we start applying censorship and suppression to the other side

00:51:40.420 because we're going to be in a perpetually losing battle if we're the only if in a battle only one

00:51:46.320 side observes the geneva convention and it's a and you're losing the war and you're observing

00:51:51.800 the geneva convention you're going to stop following the geneva convention you're going

00:51:55.380 to start shooting prisoners so that's kind of what our where i see things potentially going on our

00:52:00.560 side the problem is is i do not see how we stop and i used to say it was slippery slope and i've

00:52:06.640 said it before the cliff is now like given away right it's now just a torrent of of a debris

00:52:13.080 coming down in regards to freedoms and rights because the government whether i like like some

00:52:18.920 of the bills or not you know the for example moving big projects in this country with no

00:52:24.720 consultation is exactly like trudeau moving forward with marine mapping and controlling

00:52:31.020 bullying and i would say appropriating british columbia's resources without consultation which

00:52:36.800 i was opposed to but suddenly i'm very happy we're going to move big projects forward um for the

00:52:41.280 under pretty much the same legislation i opposed um i don't want to go too far in the weeds in that

00:52:46.020 but i think that's a really good example as well but i do think that when government is leading us

00:52:51.780 to a two-tier charter two-tier constitution two tiers of judiciary uh we have activist judges

00:53:00.260 this will set a conservative's hair on fire and if the conservative no longer feels that the state

00:53:08.240 is being truthful and is and is is operating within the the the guardrails of the charter

00:53:15.240 and the for example the criminal code and i know i've been there myself the conservative will do

00:53:22.580 exactly what you're doing they will stop being the defenders of when it doesn't matter or relate

00:53:28.580 issues that are important to them and i agree but it's not a slippery slope we're already there

00:53:33.860 i see it all the time i've admitted i've had to catch myself but this is when when government

00:53:41.380 this responsibility as this country has experienced from all levels of government for a decade

00:53:46.820 what did they goddamn expect derek they have removed themselves from the very things that

00:53:52.900 we've demand that we require them to do which is to lead us to do the very thing that you're talking

00:53:57.300 about which doesn't matter whose rights that are it is we will defend it and it's only in recent

00:54:04.260 modern times that liberals have contorted themselves into positions not to be uh in

00:54:10.900 line with the or find excuses as to why they they this they're not in line with the charter right

00:54:16.020 and we have a whole generation that has been privy to this what i call calamity um it's an

00:54:21.460 exercise of disaster and it is decaying this country which is the whole premise as to why

00:54:26.260 i was infuriated with rachel gilmore you know and and so i think you're asking great questions but i

00:54:32.820 i'm very concerned about what i see in the future you know and and i mean the very near future

00:54:38.180 because if we continue down this road where only certain groups have certain rights or certain

00:54:44.100 uh avenues to on the judiciary or or their or their charter rights are the only ones that are

00:54:49.700 protected we're going to be in a whole world of hurt and i think we're we're very close to that

00:54:55.300 doorstep you know perhaps what we need kind of going along with my geneva convention analogy

00:55:03.940 maybe we need to shoot a few hostages like i i would prefer us to return to the grand bargain

00:55:10.420 where we'll defend your right to free speech but you have to defend mine you don't have to agree

00:55:14.740 with me you can argue with me and whatever but we're gonna have to agree on the the basic ground

00:55:19.460 rules here but you know in my analogy you were there's a war and let's say it's a rough stalemate

00:55:23.460 Like, no one's really winning.

00:55:24.920 You know, one day one's up, one day the other's up.

00:55:26.940 But only one side has signed the Geneva Convention here.

00:55:30.560 The way to get the other guy to sign the Geneva Convention in that case might be like,

00:55:34.020 okay, if you don't sign it, we're going to shoot a couple of your guys. 0.70

00:55:39.720 We're going to play by your rules on a small scale for a brief period of time

00:55:44.640 just to let you know how unpleasant it is.

00:55:47.600 so maybe you know kneecap wants to come to alberta and we very publicly ban it and i think that would

00:55:55.020 be wrong that is wrong that is a bad thing to do but maybe we need to do something like that it's

00:56:00.340 gonna feel so good derek it's gonna be like birthdays and christmases rolled into one

00:56:06.440 i wouldn't even feel good about it like i i know i wouldn't i would although although yeah maybe

00:56:12.520 you will a bunch of people you know i'm maybe i could find something i'd feel good about like

00:56:16.380 you know let's just ban a david suzuki speech like i don't know it doesn't really matter but

00:56:21.760 let's just ban let's ban rachel gilmore that's a good example okay let's ban rachel gilmore from 1.00

00:56:27.380 coming down like a great rachel gilmore poetry reading or whatever she gets up to slam poetry

00:56:33.500 yeah you know uh like and we should not do that but maybe we need to just shoot a couple of these

00:56:42.320 prisoners to make the point be like okay guys we can do it too yeah let's stop and take a breath

00:56:50.740 and kind of come back to agreement on what the ground rules are in this game and you know this

00:56:58.120 might be this is an important fight we both sides believe this is existential nearly at this point

00:57:03.140 but here's our ground rules and if you don't follow them we're not going to follow them so

00:57:08.260 we're we're gonna ban a rachel gilmore slam poetry reading and uh david suzuki uh whale call

00:57:15.720 session or something the best equivalent honestly derek is banning that massive islamic prayer 0.96

00:57:21.200 session because if you're gonna ban sean and his religious music this is an equivalent and so i'm

00:57:27.780 gonna pull all those islamic worshipers off the street and we're going to we might even put you 1.00

00:57:34.340 jail for some of the city bylaws that you've you've broken on mischief charges for seven years

00:57:41.060 throwing if an ambulance can't get through well then we're in a whole other level

00:57:44.820 um you know and let's try it that way because i will tell you i don't think they'll jump

00:57:50.500 um they'll they'll support kneecap uh because even the most crazy uh of the left are i i don't want

00:57:58.420 to be seen as supporting that but we could definitely the equivalent would be the islamic

00:58:02.580 massive prayer thing that goes on what by the way no other faiths are invited to and

00:58:08.260 this is the other thing the Muslim leadership they across this country are silent and silent 1.00

00:58:15.500 and silent and it and I would they're very little reached out to other things when terrible

00:58:23.300 things happen or committed by Muslims or from the Islamic community and I think that you

00:58:30.340 You know, some of the, I would say, there isn't a level of interfaith connectivity there that I would like to see.

00:58:40.000 So I'd like to scoop up the Islamic prayer.

00:58:43.460 I can do that.

00:58:44.000 We can do that.

00:58:44.660 That, I think, is a really good equivalent to what we've been dealing with.

00:58:48.440 There's our hostage.

00:58:49.760 I mean, and then we should try to go back to not doing that.

00:58:53.660 But this might be it.

00:58:56.400 I think we've got to make a point that we can both play dirty and we should both go back to trying to be a little more gentlemanly.

00:59:05.700 You know, we can both fall. I think we make a lot of excuses.

00:59:08.400 I think conservatives apologize way too much. I think we're always the first one to sort of put, well, maybe less today than during the Harper years.

00:59:16.820 but I remember being a, you know, a very active regular pundit on CBC. And I was very careful in

00:59:26.220 my tweets at that time. I post what I was saying. I tried to sort of give a lot of runway and legal

00:59:33.300 and legislative context as to why I believed in something. But I learned very quickly that any of

00:59:39.340 my good graces was completely lost on these people. These people are lunatics half the time.

00:59:44.200 and i think what i started to hear not just from average working canadians that are friends of mine

00:59:50.000 but you know certain politicians and it was do you feel this is canada anymore do you feel very

00:59:55.500 canadian anymore do you feel like our rights are being honored and it was in whispered tones hush

01:00:00.700 tones in private circles but that now has gone viral it's gone public people have just sort of

01:00:06.900 throwing the baby out with the bathwater and they go i don't know you need to establish something

01:00:13.700 um good for the goose good for the gander and all the other lovely things that you said

01:00:19.940 um but yes it would be a wonderful wonderful present to me if we could do something like that

01:00:26.100 okay well maybe the the left should take this as the warning uh you've you've got to comply

01:00:35.280 quickly or we're uh we're gonna start shooting our hostages metaphorically everyone metaphorically

01:00:40.240 yeah there you go uh okay well what i'd like to see is if i could just say this i know there's a

01:00:47.120 lot of people that are tuning in and i just want to give a shout out to somebody that uh connected

01:00:51.440 with me and said i'm not monetizing and that's the twitter account or x account uh at cbc watcher

01:00:57.520 fantastic work this guy does i love him fantastic but that means there's a lot of people watching

01:01:02.560 and i would say just on what derek and i were last speaking about i'd love to hear from people

01:01:06.640 on twitter whether you agree with derek and i or not i'd love to hear if you understand what

01:01:11.200 we're actually talking about and what your own personal experience is because the more we talk

01:01:15.520 the more we engage the more we debate and exercise our charter rights and freedoms the more we have

01:01:21.280 a chance of pulling ourselves back from the abyss that i think we're teetering on and i think derek

01:01:25.840 you think we're probably teetering on it too right uh i i i not i'm not even sure we're teetering

01:01:31.520 anymore. I think we're hurdling our way down. Yeah. I think we're hurtling downwards at this

01:01:38.060 point. So do I. We're going to places I don't like a society, and I don't think the left is

01:01:43.600 going to like it either. I think we're losing the ability to talk to one another, come to an

01:01:49.520 equilibrium that maybe we all don't particularly like, but we can accept we're getting to an

01:01:55.640 i think we are very quickly approaching an unacceptable place and uh and that's not just

01:02:01.320 canada i think it's right across the western civilization that uh that we're going there

01:02:06.920 and i just think we're headed for a nasty place and one side's got it's both hands untied if the

01:02:15.160 other side takes enough to it's it's gonna get nasty so i'll tell you it's it's the country

01:02:22.520 worth fighting for but we are not even close to restoring our values our freedoms and our rights

01:02:28.920 and it's not i i don't want to see any more political gaymanship i want people to lead first 0.60

01:02:33.880 with being canadian and thinking about what they want for their children i would recommend you look

01:02:39.080 at what's happened in the uk they're having to crawl or claw back their country in a way that

01:02:44.840 i had never thought i would ever see my in my entire lifetime and um we just have to remember

01:02:50.440 not to let the fear cloud our judgment on how we're going to proceed to bring this country back

01:02:55.540 to what it once was. Not that many years ago. By this country, I assume you just mean Alberta.

01:03:01.260 Yeah. Well, actually, just some of Western Canada. Yeah, just West, you know. I mean,

01:03:07.380 we'll include British Columbians. You want to hear something funny? A Torontonian tweeted at me and

01:03:13.060 said, hey, what time is this debate? And I wrote back 2 p.m. Mountain Standard Time.

01:03:21.020 And he's like, well, wait a second. What does MST stand for? Is it cow time or something

01:03:26.000 like that? And I thought, I said, only a Torontonian doesn't need to understand anyone

01:03:29.920 else's time zones because they have the privilege of just being in that EST zone or whatever

01:03:35.760 it is. And I just thought it was the perfect lead into our call or into our time together

01:03:41.080 today because this is the stuff that drives western canadians nutso uh you know don't be

01:03:47.000 calling it cow time you ignorant jerks so anyway but uh yes we have so many fights on our hands

01:03:53.800 derek and um and i and i just want to thank you for giving us or giving me the time i really wish

01:03:59.480 rachel had shown up because contrary to what she made we're waiting for you rachel oh yeah we're

01:04:04.840 waiting and i just want to say to everybody that's that tuned in she what she read oh rachel okay

01:04:13.160 do her okay rachel shared this on x uh i'm told by production here uh i'm sure she added a little

01:04:19.240 uh comment uh some thoughtful commentary to it but yeah good on her okay all right well that's nice

01:04:27.400 that's nice yeah you gotta go into clubhouses like i as a conservative i do i go into the left's

01:04:34.120 clubhouses all the time i did almost a decade on cbc power and politics with rosie barton

01:04:39.400 so you've got to go in and hold your space yeah i i yes about two years did a cbc punditry job as

01:04:46.600 well and uh i know i know it was calgary you know you you were you were on the national one that's

01:04:51.480 that's much worse okay well let's let's uh put a pin in it there uh at least uh thanks so much

01:04:57.640 this was a great conversation i thought we maybe we're gonna go 20 minutes uh assuming

01:05:01.560 Rachel didn't show up. We've got an hour and five minutes here. And I think it was,

01:05:07.540 I think at least, in my humble opinion, this was a very thoughtful discussion. So thank you very

01:05:12.840 much. Thank you. I thought it was very thoughtful and friendly. All right. And thanks for everyone

01:05:19.680 who joined us today. Thank you for joining us. Westernstandard.news, where you can find us.

01:05:26.440 Go there, click on subscribe. It's only $10 a month or $100 a year for unlimited access to

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01:05:41.700 Thank you very much for joining us today.

01:05:43.220 God bless.

Western Standard - August 01, 2025

Rachel Gilmore vs Alise Mills debate on free speech

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