00:00:00.000Will Vassar here with the Western Standard.
00:00:02.800Got a good interview for you guys today.
00:00:04.680I'm going to be joined by Dr. Matthew Rowley.
00:00:07.300He is founder and president of Renew Alberta.
00:00:11.780They are looking at Alberta independence.
00:00:14.480They see it as an opportunity to shift back to what Canada once was in the parliamentary system that it once was.
00:00:22.760And so we're going to chat with him today, though, about independence in light of Premier Smith's new independence question that she introduced recently.
00:00:32.420And we're going to talk about his thoughts on it and kind of what it means for the movement and going forward.
00:00:37.100And so we'll throw it over to Dr. Rowley. Thank you very much for taking your time to meet with us today.
00:00:46.260so why don't we start with you giving me your overall kind of thoughts on the premier's
00:00:53.020question that she introduced on Thursday well on the surface level it's convoluted it's stupid
00:01:00.820it's frustrating but this isn't the premier's fault this doesn't speak to the premier you know
00:01:06.960like some people are saying oh she's trying to stop independence blah blah blah if she wanted
00:01:10.760to she had a hundred tools and levers that she could have used to stop independence this actually
00:01:16.140speaks to the very problem of why we need independence. The court system and the government
00:01:21.840is so messed up that this is the kind of malarkey we have to go through to ask Albertans an honest
00:01:29.300question, to get the democratic opinion of everybody in Alberta. It shows the core brokenness
00:01:37.140of Alberta's relationship with Ottawa and why we can't actually fix things from within the
00:01:43.280constitution when the government can't ask a question of its own people and when a citizen's
00:01:50.080initiative can be stopped because some judge decides it's unconstitutional to ask a question
00:01:56.640we know that we have problems so i don't put the fault at premier smith's feet i think she
00:02:01.600is trying to do her level best i know she says you know she's a federalist everything i believe she
00:02:07.520is but i think she is also someone who listens to albertans and wants us to have the opportunity
00:02:13.920700 000 people signed a petition two different petitions asking for a referendum and she respects
00:02:21.460that yeah and i remember you and i talked a couple weeks ago about renew alberta and what you guys
00:02:29.340are looking at and i heard the premier's announcement and kind of watch your reaction
00:02:33.280video that you had. And it really just seemed like what was happening, the situation kind of
00:02:37.900outlined, like you said, exactly what you guys are expressing as issues in Canada and why Alberta
00:02:43.300needs out. And I'm curious on from a standpoint, do you believe that there are individuals who
00:02:50.100are saying the premier could have just called the question if she wanted to? And that's why
00:02:53.400they're saying that she's standing in the way of independence. But there's others. And I believe,
00:02:59.500correct me if i'm wrong you are of the view that if she had called one the courts would have gotten
00:03:05.340involved and it wouldn't have reached october and it wouldn't yeah if she had called a question
00:03:09.740there would have been a court injunction the next day unfortunately the notwithstanding clause only
00:03:15.340applies to the charter rights and freedoms which means section 35 isn't covered so some judge would
00:03:20.620have said section 35 is uh violated by this it would have been tied up in the courts they never
00:03:26.700would do such a thing to quebec because you know the whole province would burn ottawa down but out
00:03:32.060here they feel free to do this so i i am frustrated i wish that it could be so simple uh but it is
00:03:40.300true that the courts would have tied it up and we would have had no referendum question full stop
00:03:46.140period so yes it's frustrating but we need to channel that frustration into recognizing that
00:03:53.260this is the problem this is the canada that we asked for that we have currently and we need to
00:03:58.540get out of this canada and you mentioned it in channeling the um channeling the anger and the
00:04:05.340frustration in the proper way the other one of the other things when i talked with you previously
00:04:09.580you mentioned is not channeling that frustration at the premier and recognizing the role that she
00:04:15.580is i know that following the announcement there are a lot of alberta independent supporters who
00:04:19.980have turned their pitchforks and directed them right at the premier for standing in the way
00:04:24.860and um what's your kind of view on that and the premier's role and kind of where she stands right
00:04:29.740now and how individuals should be reacting following it i i truly understand it i was so
00:04:36.060frustrated and annoyed myself but we have to look at the fact that the only way we are going to win
00:04:42.220the first referendum and the second is if we stay focused so if we divide our attentions divide the
00:04:48.380movement have half of us going after the premier the other half saying don't if we start fragmenting
00:04:55.100just as the let's stay in canada people are getting their feet under them
00:04:59.260then we will lose this referendum and it will be our fault if you were talking a little bit about
00:05:06.540how you guys have to stay focused on independence that if you turn your attention and get distracted
00:05:12.700by focusing on the premier you guys won't win the referendum in october and you'll have no one else
00:05:17.420to blame but you but yourselves for getting distracted yeah and honestly beyond that we will
00:05:24.220divide the vote split the party and end up with premier nahed nenshi we've been through this any
00:05:30.620albertan who went through rachel notley for four years should think long and hard it's all well and
00:05:38.860good to want to see the world burn it's all well and good to be frustrated because things aren't
00:05:42.940going the way we are but part of being an adult part of being mature part of proving that we're
00:05:47.800capable of governing ourselves and being our own country is not throwing our toys out of the pram
00:05:53.720every time things go wrong we have to be calm we have to be settled and we have to say we will do
00:06:00.460what it takes the premier is not the problem we will be the problem so I give the premier great
00:06:07.300credit she is trying to listen to all Albertans and govern for all Albertans it's frustrating
00:06:13.700because some Albertans are not for independence but that's what a premier is supposed to do is
00:06:19.540actually be the person who governs for the best for the province so we need to stop this nonsense
00:06:26.820of fighting among ourselves and fighting the UCP government the UCP government will not lose this
00:06:33.460referendum for us we will and i'm curious on it because there is the push among um grassroots
00:06:41.780members of the independence movement and even um more high profile members in the independence
00:06:46.420movement really turning their attention to the premier and saying she's turned her back on the
00:06:50.180ucp base she needs to be um removed as a leader and i'm curious on your belief whether or not you
00:06:58.660think that the best path forward for independence is under premier smith
00:07:02.740i believe that she has done this she's gotten us this far and i don't see any other way because
00:07:11.880when we start dividing the leadership and fighting into you know who's going to be the leader of the
00:07:17.380ucp now and all of this we will end up splitting the party that's all that's going to happen we
00:07:22.400will end up dividing instead of uniting so until the day when premier smith stands up and says
00:07:28.960albertans you have no right to have a voice then we have to trust that the premier is doing as she
00:07:34.940says she has said she's trying to do her best for everybody and we have to give her a bit of credit
00:07:40.480she has a track record and funny enough she's one of these people that has done the wrong thing in
00:07:46.400the past and has owned it you know it's funny i didn't vote for her in the leadership i voted
00:07:52.060for somebody else and yet she has won me over by being direct dedicated and doing her best for
00:07:59.340Albertans even the fact that she's going out and trying to negotiate with Carney she's proving the
00:08:04.500point for us that you can't actually make headway she's trying hard Carney's talking out of one
00:08:10.060side of his mouth but then we see how already they're starting to renege on their deals so
00:08:14.740she's being honest she's trying her best let's give her a little bit of slack none of us would
00:08:20.340like to do the job that she's trying to do uh and i'm curious on everything going forward and you
00:08:29.340mentioned needing to focus on uh independence there's some that have said that this could be
00:08:35.480a blessing in disguise for everything of building that support for alberta independence it you
00:08:41.880wouldn't necessarily there were people that were sitting on the fence of saying hey i don't know
00:08:46.140if uncomfortable voting for an independent Alberta, but maybe the people that are wanting
00:08:51.040to send a message to Ottawa might be more willing to give a yes vote right now. What's your view on
00:08:56.700that entire situation? I honestly do think it's a blessing in disguise. I think we will have more
00:09:02.580time to make our case. More importantly, the government of Canada and the rest of Canada
00:09:08.460will have more time to show the level of disdain and lack of care that they have for us. They will
00:09:15.200show how little they're willing to do to look after us when it comes to their own political
00:09:20.100ideas and choices we will see through this period just how much we need to go so every day longer
00:09:27.780that it takes is actually a victory because there's going to be one more story coming down
00:09:32.040the line just the other day the snowbirds we found out that they're going to be grounded
00:09:37.620that they can't even in this country pull together enough will to make one of the symbols of canada
00:09:45.180that everybody agrees is a good thing they couldn't pull together the political will to buy
00:09:50.000them a couple airplanes this is how broken canada is so every time we hear the news all you have to
00:09:57.020do is turn on the news and watch as canada slowly disintegrates around us and the more time that we
00:10:02.980have to point to these things and say hey look this isn't about whether alberta is going to break
00:10:08.240up canada this is about whether we pull the ripcord before the plane hits the mountain
00:10:12.620And that's the choice that we have. So I'm fully confident that the longer a campaign runs, the better it is for us, that the more time that we have to make our case and make our argument in the face of the best that the stay for Canada people can do is say, well, nostalgia, gosh, golly gee, there was a time when Canada was great.
00:10:32.780it's not today or they can say oh no look out what's going to happen if you vote against it
00:10:37.760well we're going to see we'll we'll have this vote and you know what people aren't going to
00:10:42.480flee the province money isn't going to flee the province because we are a province that has the
00:10:47.460commodities the world needs we have our largest trading partner right south of the border and
00:10:51.860they like us and they want to give us their money in exchange for our goods so we'll just be proving
00:10:57.140more and more that all of the fear mongering all of the worry all of the false arguments that
00:11:03.600they're making are actually just that they're false i'm curious what's the best things that
00:11:08.840can happen for the independence movement right now leading up to october for you in your opinion
00:11:13.120for the independence movement i think we're actually in the perfect world i know that's
00:11:19.020hard to see but we are seeing the government of canada be predictably arrogant we're sealing
00:11:25.980seeing the commentary at people like Andrew Coyne telling us that we can't leave anyway if we wanted
00:11:31.140to and that it's not up to us and Canada owns us and we have to suck it up. We're seeing the
00:11:36.740the world around us get more and more unstable. We have a prime minister that loves to point out
00:11:42.940that everything's divided and falling apart and the world is in chaos. Well to a certain extent
00:11:47.820he's right and the answer that they seem to have is to make it worse and worse and worse. So we're
00:11:53.840on a path that allows us to see what's going to happen if we stay in Canada. I think the best
00:12:00.880thing would be that we can actually have this referendum succeed and then we can have the
00:12:06.260Alberta government step into its role of carrying out the will of the people, of negotiating with
00:12:12.500Ottawa. I highly doubt, maybe I'll be shocked and surprised by the results, but I highly doubt that
00:12:17.720Ottawa is going to negotiate in good faith with us, treat us as an equal partner in confederation
00:12:23.700I think they will continue to use dirty tricks, everything that they can to try to damage us, but they will not actually show the humility that they need to tell Albertans that Canadians care for them.
00:12:38.600So I think we're on the best possible track.
00:12:41.120We just have to keep our heads and we have to not get distracted and we can't light our hair on fire every time we get a bit of news that we don't like.
00:12:48.580and and i just want to ask you as well i think there's been and it's a little bit interesting
00:12:55.600maybe you can speak to it the there's some messaging over the last week and especially
00:12:59.720especially after the mou got announced or the mou announcement that this is all about oil
00:13:05.440this is all about um getting alberta oil out and maybe you can speak to it there's the belief
00:13:11.840in alberta that they're ottawa's misunderstanding people in central canada are misunderstanding it
00:13:17.560that's helping the independence movement maybe them showing that they don't really even understand
00:13:21.800what's happening yeah it it is when you look at it this is about culture this is about values
00:13:28.520alberta is about hard work about doing it yourself about helping your community and not looking to
00:13:34.920the government to solve all of our problems and make all of the rules albertans want to be free
00:13:41.320and we want to be free from the petty stupid annoyances of a government that thinks that
00:13:46.360taxing the internet and getting a back door into all of your electronic communications is a good
00:13:52.440idea we want to be free of a government who thinks that they have the right to tell you that because
00:13:57.080the climate is changing they get to tax you we want to be free of a government that thinks that
00:14:02.040everything is their business and so the more that they say oh this is just about economics this is
00:14:09.800just about a pipeline the more they totally don't grasp the last 120 years of alberta's history
00:14:17.560they don't get the imbalance that we have in confederation the fact that we can't change
00:14:23.720things if we want to we had almost 10 years of a good government under stephen harper and guess
00:14:30.440what every one of those cabinet ministers who was involved in that couldn't change anything they
00:14:35.720They couldn't make it more balanced for us, even as the conservative team, the Western side.
00:14:42.020You know, there's some cabinet ministers, former cabinet ministers who are coming out to say, hey, we should stay in Canada.
00:14:47.100And to them, I say, why didn't you fix it while you could?