Western Standard - Smith shuts down the War Room

00:00:00.000 Hey, I'm Derek Pilgrim, publisher of the Western Standard, and you're watching The Pipeline.

00:00:28.380 Today is June 12, 2024, and we've got a special edition today.

00:00:33.140 We're coming to you from the ground floor of the Global Energy Show here in Calgary, Alberta.

00:00:42.120 We've got our spot set down here.

00:00:45.340 We're trying to do some business, meet with oil and gas companies, find some new advertisers.

00:00:52.300 We continue doing what we're doing.

00:00:53.500 But we're also, we have another side of that mission, and we're talking to people in the energy industry here, talking to leaders about what's happening, which is one reason.

00:01:03.960 We don't have our usual Western Standard opinion editor, Nigel Heddeford, here today.

00:01:09.700 Filling in for Nigel is Western Standard's business and energy reporter, Sean Polzer.

00:01:15.440 Thank you for joining us here on the floor of the Global Energy Show.

00:01:18.500 Thank you, Derek.

00:01:19.060 And, as usual, one of the men who has worked on the ground of the industry is Western Standard Senior Alberta columnist, Corey Morgan.

00:01:27.520 Hey, I wouldn't miss the chance to hit this show.

00:01:29.580 It's pretty good. And we get free lunch. I get free lunch.

00:01:33.040 No, I just got an exhibitor pass.

00:01:35.300 Somehow I got a better pass. But I get lunch, at least. You get lunch?

00:01:39.080 I do.

00:01:39.560 Yeah, everyone gets lunch except for Corey.

00:01:41.040 I brought a sandwich.

00:01:41.900 We're going to talk about spies in Parliament.

00:01:46.780 The NISCOP, the Committee of Parliamentarians appointed by the Prime Minister, not a parliamentary committee, it's a significant difference, but it's figured that we've got roughly 10 members of parliament, or parliamentarians, so I guess I include senators, who are witting or unwitting agents of foreign powers.

00:02:14.900 And, well, we're not allowed to know who that is.

00:02:18.040 And I think that's a big deal.

00:02:20.340 I think that's a pretty big deal.

00:02:21.840 We're going to talk about it because, guess what, we're going to find out who it is.

00:02:25.140 Someone's going to talk.

00:02:26.220 This is going to get leaked.

00:02:28.360 Anyway, we'll get into it.

00:02:30.440 We're going to talk about some energy issues, of course, what's going on here.

00:02:36.160 Sean has been talking to some of the most significant leaders in Canada and Alberta's energy industry.

00:02:41.720 I want to talk related to that, the War Room. Everyone remembers the Energy War Room?

00:02:47.380 Well, it's been kind of quietly shut down, and words kind of come out about that while we've been here.

00:02:54.300 So, you know, let's start with spies in Parliament.

00:02:59.580 Corey, I mean, it's been a long road getting here.

00:03:02.920 It started with Sam Cooper, the Globe and Mail, doing some really great reporting where he had some sources inside CSIS, provide them with some pretty bombshell intelligence showing very significant foreign interference, primarily from the People's Republic of China in the last several federal elections.

00:03:28.080 the liberals denied it they said it's racism it's racist to talk which is the

00:03:32.720 the leftist reaction to everything is uh i have point a well you're racist that's the reaction

00:03:40.660 to everything that didn't work and this has gone been a long road from there to here

00:03:45.320 where now we've got a committee of parliamentarians uh the plurality of which are liberals

00:03:52.840 who have put out this report based on the intelligence they've got,

00:03:58.740 saying we've got, I think, 10 parliamentarians, that's MPs and or senators, who are...

00:04:07.280 And media.

00:04:08.040 And media.

00:04:09.160 But I think, I mean, I've already said before, also advertising to Saudi Arabia,

00:04:13.760 I guess that wouldn't make us an AP, but 10 parliamentarians, also media involved.

00:04:22.840 the pretend parliamentarians who are winning or unwitting agents of hostile foreign powers.

00:04:32.760 The Liberals have refused to release this. The Conservatives were very quiet on it the very

00:04:37.960 first day. My instinct was that I think it's highly improbable that only the Liberals have

00:04:46.280 been targeted for foreign infiltration. Maybe they might be the biggest target of it from the People 0.99

00:04:50.680 Republican China, because the Liberal Party is traditionally very friendly to the people

00:04:54.340 of the public. But, I mean, ethnic politics is a thing. We've been around politics. We

00:05:01.400 know it's there. And it's inevitable that there's going to be some hands washing each

00:05:06.380 other in these things. But then the Conservatives have come out stronger at this point. So at

00:05:11.000 this point, the Conservatives are probably willing to accept that there's going to be

00:05:15.440 some casualties on their side as well. But this is a natural security issue. We've got

00:05:19.600 to know the names. Liberals have steadfastly refused to release this. 20 bucks on the table.

00:05:26.420 What are the chances that the Liberals get their way and we never find out? I'd say those chances

00:05:30.820 are none. It's going to come out. It's just a matter of when. It might be this week. It might

00:05:34.740 be a year. They might kick the can down the road that long. But this is too big. There's too many

00:05:39.740 people have seen it. Too many people know, as I said, Wark, a security expert who called it

00:05:45.520 textbook treason, who said it was nauseating what was said in here. And these were witting

00:05:51.360 participants. Some of them had direct, I mean, these are our parliamentarians. Somebody's going

00:05:56.600 to leak it or it's going to be forced. And then, I mean, this was the liberals who wanted more than

00:06:02.000 anything for this not to exist, even their own committee. It's racist. Yeah. Yeah. Even their

00:06:06.140 own committee had to conclude, yes, this is happening. I mean, this is like a corporation.

00:06:10.620 If you had a bunch of, it was exposed. Yeah. You've got a bunch of high level managers who

00:06:15.000 We're embezzling, but we're not going to tell the shareholders who they are,

00:06:18.420 and we're just going to let them keep doing it.

00:06:20.020 Because that's the thing, if they aren't exposed, then they're still doing it.

00:06:23.320 And this is just an outrage.

00:06:25.000 So, no, it will come out.

00:06:26.640 And as you said, the Conservatives changed their tone.

00:06:29.840 I do suspect there's probably a couple.

00:06:31.580 I mean, the foreign powers don't care about our parties.

00:06:33.180 They just want to make sure they've got some influence of senators or members of Parliament.

00:06:37.300 So it doesn't matter to them.

00:06:38.760 And they've probably got to a couple of Conservatives.

00:06:40.980 I imagine that was a bit of the pause.

00:06:42.420 But you might as well come out and say, well, we're just as outraged.

00:06:46.000 We want to root this out as well.

00:06:47.740 We want to clean out Parliament.

00:06:49.040 We were victims.

00:06:50.500 Let's get this done and let's get them out.

00:06:52.200 I suspect that was the change in tone.

00:06:54.180 They do know something.

00:06:55.600 We know that Inside Talk has probably let them know what the names are, but nobody's

00:06:59.300 going to dare say them yet.

00:07:00.760 But it's going to come out.

00:07:02.700 Sean, treason is a strong word, but I can't think of another word that appropriately describes

00:07:09.700 working with a hostile foreign power, or actually, arguably, a foreign power, period, against the interests of your own country.

00:07:22.300 Now, that might get a bit more complicated in Canada, where defining what the country is is a bit ambiguous.

00:07:28.640 A bloc amphi probably, and quite legitimately, doesn't really care about the interests of Canada, 0.59

00:07:36.900 they care about the interests of Quebec. Many Albertans might even feel similar. Like,

00:07:42.020 I don't really care about the interests of some federal issues that don't relate to the West.

00:07:48.020 It's just not of interest to me. It's interesting that you mentioned that because

00:07:52.340 in the panel today, Devin Griesen, his infrastructure, utilities, and corridors

00:07:57.140 minister, identified foreign interference as a policy risk for things like ports on the west

00:08:04.980 coast or uh you know shipping oil down into the united states so i think like when you say treason

00:08:11.380 is a very strong word it is a very strong word and i think one of the things that's going to come

00:08:15.540 out of all this is basically just how endemic it is in in the system do you know what i mean like

00:08:20.980 like i don't i think it goes beyond 10 mps and we're talking about uh you know civil service

00:08:28.340 There's witting MPs who are like actively and willingly involved, wittingly involved.

00:08:34.960 I don't know, but there could be many others who...

00:08:36.240 There's probably bureaucrats and senior staffers.

00:08:38.600 People in Parliament could be beyond the 10 who are, I mean, just not wittingly involved.

00:08:44.100 They're just kind of pawns of them.

00:08:45.460 They might not really know it themselves.

00:08:46.620 Kind of at a departmental level.

00:08:48.340 Even here today, upstairs, I've got some sessions with foreign governments.

00:08:52.280 There's a ministerial area that's kind of roped off from the media where they're having

00:08:57.860 meetings with uh nigeria and china is here and algeria and various effect members so um i think

00:09:06.180 there's kind of a higher level that maybe you could call treason but i think there's also kind

00:09:11.140 of um almost an institutional kind of you know because this is how business gets done and in a

00:09:16.180 lot of these countries you know you gotta use a few bombs and pour a few drinks you know there was

00:09:22.260 There's the liberal scandal that was that big company with, too recent, Raybald's.

00:09:29.520 Oh, SNC-11.

00:09:30.560 SNC-11.

00:09:31.940 What they did was totally illegal.

00:09:33.520 But there's a part of it that was like, you know, they were paying off officials.

00:09:37.020 That's how you operate overseas. 0.97

00:09:38.500 I know guys who do business in China, and you have to pay corrupt port officials to get the crap off a boat. 0.92

00:09:45.900 You want your stuff unloaded from the cargo ship. 0.96

00:09:49.560 You've got to grease some pumps.

00:09:51.320 And I don't know.

00:09:52.960 I think the fault there is the corruption on the Chinese. 1.00

00:09:56.160 You want to do business in China, you've got to grease the wheels. 1.00

00:09:59.640 That's the way it works.

00:10:01.780 So I got a bit of sympathy.

00:10:03.400 I'm not sure Canadians actually should get charged for this.

00:10:05.720 Well, that's different.

00:10:07.200 It's in the private world.

00:10:08.880 I mean, whether they should be charged or not.

00:10:11.280 But when you're talking now elected officials, the highest levels of government, that's a whole different.

00:10:18.520 That's a big different category.

00:10:20.000 I mean, when I was in the oil field in my younger years, I know that there was a number of payments that went to local band leaders and members to get your job done that weren't necessarily on the books as well.

00:10:31.860 Because you wouldn't operate if you didn't.

00:10:33.780 Off balance sheet.

00:10:35.620 Yeah.

00:10:36.860 Now, does that warrant criminal charges?

00:10:38.960 I don't know.

00:10:39.500 I don't think it's good practice.

00:10:40.700 I think it set bad precedents.

00:10:42.040 But there's levels and levels of, I guess, malfeasance.

00:10:45.520 And the energy sector, or SNC-Lavalin, I mean, there's things we still should be watching for.

00:10:50.920 Corporate espionage is, of course, a whole rail mullet's on as well. 0.98

00:10:54.060 But the immediate issue on the table, though, is do we have senators, do we have members of parliament that are compromised, that are purposely...

00:11:01.600 I kind of like what you've been doing on Twitter or whatever it's called now.

00:11:06.100 You know, liberals made their crazy daily accusations that the conservatives are going to, I don't know, put women in concentration camps or something.

00:11:13.720 And your response is, what for power are you working for?

00:11:16.660 Because until the liberals are willing to disclose the names on this list,

00:11:21.840 it's fair game that they're all not above suspicion.

00:11:26.800 And that's my point of it.

00:11:27.760 I mean, I'm pretty sure most of the ones I keep throwing that up have nothing to do with it.

00:11:31.900 But if you want to clear your name, I can't think of a better way than releasing the bloody document.

00:11:37.700 Show us who it is.

00:11:38.680 Something else I threw out there on X, I don't know if somebody should do it.

00:11:41.580 If a fake list came out and a bunch of people were falsely accused,

00:11:44.920 I guess the only way to clear their name would be to release the actual list of names

00:11:48.480 so we knew that they were falsely accused.

00:11:50.200 It's just saying if somebody did something like that.

00:11:52.500 I mean, we shouldn't do it.

00:11:55.560 We're not going to do it.

00:11:56.400 No, we're not going to do it.

00:11:57.120 And it's illegal to do it.

00:11:57.840 But, I mean, we could come up with a fake list tomorrow and put it out there,

00:12:02.760 and that would essentially force the federal government to release the real list.

00:12:06.020 Now, in the meantime, we would get sued for defamation because we'd be tarred.

00:12:08.600 Once the list came out, you'll get sued pretty hard.

00:12:10.840 Yeah, because there'd be 10, well, actually, what if we got it right?

00:12:16.440 There's a chance we'd get, like, a couple right randomly.

00:12:19.300 Well, and that's why I'm saying, who do you act for?

00:12:22.340 I don't say you are acting for China.

00:12:24.180 You know what you do?

00:12:24.800 I can suggest one thing.

00:12:27.260 No, you cannot say it here.

00:12:28.900 Don't get us sued, for God's sake.

00:12:30.400 A certain federal environment minister who sits on the panel of the Communist Party of China already, and that is in the public.

00:12:37.400 Actually, he is technically working for China.

00:12:40.400 Yeah, he's doing it in the open, though, unlike the other ones.

00:12:42.700 Yeah, it is open, but he is witting.

00:12:45.260 Yes.

00:12:45.600 He is very witting.

00:12:47.820 And he's against the arms.

00:12:49.200 That's where the politics collide.

00:12:51.220 Well, and this is where it can kind of get complicated.

00:12:55.000 Some people might not even see themselves as agents of foreign powers,

00:12:58.780 because they're doing probably what seems legitimate and fine in their eyes.

00:13:02.800 So, I mean...

00:13:05.260 He would be one of those.

00:13:06.940 Well, actually, you know, like, and it depends what countries would draw the line at.

00:13:10.400 Arguably, the United States can be a part of this.

00:13:13.820 They're not hostile foreign power to us in the way that China is, but they can have hostile interests.

00:13:19.340 If the CIA purchased an MP in Canada, it's still a bloody problem.

00:13:23.120 Absolutely.

00:13:23.480 Absolutely. And also, you know, there are one of the big reasons we've not been able to get enough pipelines built to tidal water is that some of the major players in the American oil and gas industry, well, they see us as a competitor and they don't want us getting to international markets.

00:13:42.980 They want us captives, left in Canada and parts of the States.

00:13:46.200 So they can buy our oil at a dispenser.

00:13:47.660 Exactly. So there are hostile American interests against our oil and gas industry, and they will work with green, like radical green elements in Canada. Now, would that radical green element in Canada see themselves as an agent of a foreign power? I mean, probably.

00:14:04.800 Some of them actually are. Some of them actually are based in the United States.

00:14:09.420 I know they are. But like, you know, say a Canadian MP who oppose MLAs, MPPs, who oppose

00:14:18.120 Alberta Saskatchewan's ability to get a pipeline to tidal water, and they might be getting some

00:14:24.260 backing from American interests. They might not see themselves as an agent of a foreign power,

00:14:30.120 even though they effectively are working with a foreign power against Canada's interests.

00:14:33.780 For them, they're ideologically opposed to this, and they're just finding allies where they can get it.

00:14:38.660 Well, that's what I mean.

00:14:39.280 When it's an ideologue, I mean, they'll take an in-justify-the-means approach,

00:14:42.320 because they feel they're on a moral high ground.

00:14:45.220 So, oh, sure, it's not good to be beholden to a foreign power, but my cause is so important in the world that...

00:14:49.840 They might not see themselves as beholden to the Americans.

00:14:52.360 They're just working for green stuff.

00:14:53.800 But they are working for certain American interests.

00:14:56.900 I'm not sure that that's the case in this particular issue.

00:15:00.000 Well, no, no.

00:15:01.400 But it's a big issue.

00:15:02.700 I think that those people will be named on the list because we're talking, when we define

00:15:07.060 cost of foreign powers, we're not normally talking about the United States, but make

00:15:11.980 no mistake, the United States has a huge interest in Canada and doesn't leave us entirely to

00:15:17.620 our own devices.

00:15:18.580 Absolutely.

00:15:19.660 And that came up as well, too.

00:15:21.520 Yeah.

00:15:22.620 I was just about to say, when things like even trade negotiations, members of parliament

00:15:28.720 that are privy to a lot of inside information

00:15:31.080 if there's going to be back and forth

00:15:32.660 on those sorts of things.

00:15:33.520 And if you've got somebody inside

00:15:34.740 leaking to the other negotiating side,

00:15:36.980 it gives a heck of an edge.

00:15:38.140 They know where you're coming from.

00:15:39.640 Indeed.

00:15:40.880 Okay, well, let's turn a little closer to home here.

00:15:46.860 News just started leaking.

00:15:48.080 I knew about it last week,

00:15:50.480 but I wasn't at liberty to use the information.

00:15:53.560 But the war room has been kind of quietly shut down now, or is being quietly shut down.

00:16:02.600 I don't know.

00:16:03.160 We have some WD-40 here.

00:16:04.260 My chair is squeaky.

00:16:05.160 I don't know if you can hear that on camera.

00:16:07.080 I can hear it here.

00:16:07.980 Petroleum products.

00:16:09.200 Can anyone have some petroleum products for this squeaky chair?

00:16:15.520 So the war room, this was a creation of Jason Kenney.

00:16:20.580 He campaigned on creating this.

00:16:22.880 in the 2019 Alberta election, he used the term war room up front to kind of give a sense

00:16:30.320 of, you know, like an election, you have a room full of, full of nerds who are at their

00:16:35.460 computers researching stuff and doing a rapid reaction.

00:16:41.160 And then the name war room stuck.

00:16:42.940 They came up with the name Canadian Energy Center.

00:16:45.160 And I said, I will not the word, but it just kind of stuck because that's what it was

00:16:48.840 called before it was called Canadian Energy Center.

00:16:51.300 And, you know, it did a fair bit of good work, did great research and whatnot, but it was a little overly involved in direct media communications, and it had some early missteps, things like plagiarizing a logo, little things like that.

00:17:09.740 Bigfoot?

00:17:11.220 What was the Bigfoot one?

00:17:12.560 Bigfoot cartoon.

00:17:14.220 Oh, yeah.

00:17:15.720 Some hidden eco messages.

00:17:17.420 It's like backward messages of rock music.

00:17:19.720 Yeah, if you need to play the record backwards, it'll tell you to ban plastic straws or something.

00:17:25.460 I mean, even those of us on this side, a little bit like, come on, guys, this is a little bit.

00:17:34.600 So it had some early missteps that its brand never really recovered from, limped along.

00:17:43.220 I thought Smith was actually going to close it down like in her first week when she became premier. 1.00

00:17:47.420 kind of the way, you know, Jip Redd has sold planes.

00:17:49.940 You know, that wasn't actually technically a smart idea.

00:17:51.960 It kind of provided a psychological break with the Redford regime.

00:17:55.220 I thought shut it down the war room might serve a similar kind of purpose.

00:17:59.700 She didn't, but it's now been kind of quietly shuttered.

00:18:03.060 Some of its functions, it had some legitimate functions,

00:18:05.460 but they're being kind of just moved to other parts of the government.

00:18:11.460 Start with you, Corey.

00:18:12.500 Was it a mistake to shut it down, or should it have just...

00:18:17.420 had a total complete overhaul of its mission as its organization it failed let it go i mean start

00:18:23.500 something new then if you really feel it needs to be done and it is a sad end to something i think

00:18:27.980 had a lot of potential the reason it was campaigned upon the reason it was created because there was

00:18:33.180 a lot of unchecked misinformation constantly being thrown out there against the the industries of

00:18:39.100 western canada and saying that was what i envisioned a group of nerds sitting there

00:18:43.180 holy cow, here's a bunch of baloney out of Greenpeace or out of here, out of there.

00:18:48.020 We're going to respond quickly to the press, on social media,

00:18:51.500 and counter that before this BS grows legs. 0.89

00:18:54.640 But it never became that.

00:18:56.360 It was a classic example, too, of government saying, well, here's the issue.

00:18:59.700 Here's $30 million.

00:19:01.020 Here's a few friends of government.

00:19:02.540 We'll get to set it up, do something.

00:19:04.840 And, of course, rarely does that turn into something good.

00:19:07.200 It just turned into a poorly run communications office is all it ever was.

00:19:12.600 of milk and toast releases and nothing that couldn't have already been done from the energy

00:19:16.800 ministry or things like that. So, I mean, it's unfortunate it even took this long to just fold

00:19:23.780 this in and just call it what it is, a comms department, if they really want to create

00:19:27.700 something that's going to be reactive, because that's what I wanted to see, something that,

00:19:30.560 yeah, you know, Greenpeace said this, that an hour later, this war room has put out a release

00:19:35.860 saying, no, that, but it never turned into that. It was never that. And maybe we'll need that down

00:19:41.640 they'll have to do it differently that's for sure well even the environmentalists i remember seeing

00:19:47.640 an interview with a guy on the west post on one of those groups it was like a normal or whatever

00:19:52.520 and said like there's no shame in telling your story like there's there's no shame in standing

00:19:56.920 up for your legitimate interest and and and telling the story and i think what happened was

00:20:02.440 they kind of got away from that but we were getting their releases and it's just it became

00:20:07.000 very data driven very uh kind of geeky uh really hard to understand well that's what it became

00:20:12.360 later on yeah as if i think i actually got better later on when it became more geeky it became just

00:20:18.200 about more hard data it sounded more like a think tank even yeah but government didn't really need

00:20:22.680 to do it yeah then it became redundant yeah but so early on the problem was government communications 0.88

00:20:30.200 are bullshit to begin, generally. I mean, it's always a spin on things. And you should always 0.87

00:20:37.220 take what the government says with a heavy dose of salt. But it was engaging in direct

00:20:45.580 media. I mean, government engages in direct media. It's a form of propaganda. And propaganda

00:20:50.420 isn't always misleading. I mean, good propaganda isn't. It just gives you a good spin on what

00:20:56.080 truth is uh but it's propaganda nonetheless and generally shouldn't exist and

00:21:06.400 was it doomed from the beginning because of that or do you think there was another path this could

00:21:12.240 have taken uh that was just simply like a data center uh just provided information for other

00:21:19.360 media to pick up rather than trying to try to develop itself into its own media organization

00:21:25.360 in a sense uh like a competitor except directly owned and operated by the government uh but set

00:21:32.080 up in a weird way as a private corporation not a crown corporation so that it wasn't even subject

00:21:36.800 to freedom of information right and you know i think that uh the premier and ministers like uh

00:21:43.120 schultz like i was thinking yesterday uh like the interception of environment and energy um i think

00:21:48.880 they've done a good job of communicating that message kind of more in a more kind of practical

00:21:54.480 way that kind of makes sense to people like you get fringy smith going off to cop 28 and she's

00:22:00.800 she's spoken extensively about energy issues and she's she's really up on them she's really well

00:22:05.840 versed and she has a way of kind of putting it into the perspective that people can understand

00:22:10.960 i i think that that's what the energy center kind of got away from like that was probably

00:22:15.840 their mandate was to kind of tell the story and then by the end there they weren't really telling

00:22:19.840 the story yeah it's like more like you you get these data information houses all the time that

00:22:25.600 you know are analyzing properties for acquisitions investors and you know just numbers and it just

00:22:31.280 becomes very uh somebody has to take those numbers and put them into kind of a common man's language

00:22:38.800 i think the premier's actually done a fairly good job on that already

00:22:41.760 So, the Energy Center itself is no more, but it's not entirely going away.

00:22:48.760 There's some functions of it that are kind of being chopped up and moved around.

00:22:52.760 What do we know about that?

00:22:53.760 It's going to Intergovernmental Affairs, which is overseeing directly from the Premier's office.

00:22:58.760 So, Premier Smith is taking over the Energy Center. She is. 1.00

00:23:03.760 So, she's just cutting out the... 0.99

00:23:05.760 And you know what functions are moving into it?

00:23:07.760 The research functions.

00:23:09.760 functions so there's I think they had six staff three of them were the ones

00:23:14.840 that were kind of crunching all these numbers so those people are moving over

00:23:18.100 to government relations and then I would imagine what's going to happen is the

00:23:23.600 cabinet ministers and other officials have got like a briefing you know when

00:23:26.780 these developments come up we make some talking points LNG, pipe wide expansion

00:23:32.100 west coast you know right that's a little more policy driven yeah as opposed to just right

00:23:38.340 on the numbers like so the research functions is pretty much what it was that's that's not

00:23:45.380 the bad thing i don't think i mean i think where they fell down was on the communication like

00:23:50.500 you're talking about they're trying to do direct communication without kind of standing up and

00:23:54.900 saying like we're arguments for this right like this yeah it's got the interest of the people

00:24:00.100 over that you know at the core right it was almost like they were kind of disguising what

00:24:06.420 the distribution was right and i think that that's probably where the conflict came because

00:24:12.500 after a while nobody really knew what it was like what it was supposed to do and

00:24:16.100 they're getting 30 million dollars like what to buy ads in times square

00:24:22.420 yeah all right they weren't really controlling the narrative you know like you know they weren't

00:24:28.020 getting on the panel shows on cbc or you know putting that message out there like in a way that

00:24:33.060 was uh objective to be able to say hey listen this is a vital industry it's a vital economic

00:24:40.420 industry, not just Alberta, but from the whole entire country. We're talking about GDP. Somebody

00:24:45.380 was saying every barrel of oil that gets sold drives down the price of groceries in all parts

00:24:51.460 of the country, right? That was the message I wasn't getting at. You know what I'm saying? Instead,

00:24:55.780 we've got a lot of charts and graphs. All right, well, we're at the Global Energy Show. It used to

00:25:04.580 be the Global Petroleum Show. Actually, you've been following us for a long time. It was the

00:25:09.860 the national petroleum show i think back in the 70s when this thing started uh but sean you're

00:25:15.140 our business and energy reporter uh you've been here on the ground uh taking in the speeches

00:25:20.500 taking in the panel discussions and that uh premier smith speaking uh today as well i think she

00:25:25.220 actually also spoke yesterday right yeah uh but once you kind of give us uh well you've been following

00:25:32.020 the global energy show for a long time because you've been you've been an energy reporter long

00:25:34.980 before you have to join the standard.

00:25:36.420 Can you just give us a little background on what it is that's here and how it got to where it is today?

00:25:41.780 Well it was kind of started as the National Petroleum Show during the National Energy Program

00:25:47.220 and you know it was part of a forum for you know the industry and the developments in the industry

00:25:52.740 and over the years it's kind of been almost a bellwether for you know the economic fortunes of

00:25:59.140 of Alberta. So it's gone through a lot of iterations and a lot of changes. You know, like you said,

00:26:05.260 it was a national petroleum show. That was a global petroleum show. Now it's a global energy show

00:26:10.820 because we're supposedly moving beyond petroleum. Second, it's the greatest indoor show on earth

00:26:15.560 because we're now actually on the stampede grounds. But it tends to go up and down,

00:26:19.540 tracks the industry, the boom and bust cycles. So when you have a really good year, then you've

00:26:24.240 got this huge show and masses of exhibits. I'm actually quite astounded by how huge this thing

00:26:30.540 is. This is the biggest. No. You don't know who I have to kill to get a booth here. I'm not joking.

00:26:42.000 All right. So, you were at Premier Smith's speech yesterday. Yeah. Give us the highlights of what

00:26:49.200 access? Well, basically, we're kind of at an inflection point with the energy industry in

00:26:55.440 Alberta. So we've got Trans Mountain Pipeline to the coast is on. We're pumping an extra 600,000

00:27:02.880 barrels a day off the coast as we speak. We've got a major LNG project that's coming on next year.

00:27:08.640 So these are the first times that Alberta, which has been landlocked, has had access to these

00:27:14.000 international buyers in asia and we've been reliant on the united states basically forever and ever

00:27:21.520 so it's uh kind of a turning point and with the election coming up in the united states

00:27:27.120 uh later on this year there's a lot of talk of what uh a trump presidency would look like

00:27:32.880 well we'll get to that and what specifically what it means for we're going to get to the trump

00:27:37.840 That it's time for Alberta, basically, to stand up on its own, and I mean, in terms

00:27:50.080 of federal policies, environment policies, but also within, as an oil jurisdiction, not

00:27:57.480 only in North America, but globally, we've truly become a global player just in the last

00:28:03.600 year.

00:28:04.600 So let's talk now the potential impacts of a potential Trump restoration here.

00:28:11.560 I think they had Minister Devin Gresham speaking today, and then he was focusing on that,

00:28:16.200 about Biden or Trump administration and what that might look like. Why don't you tell us

00:28:22.360 about that discussion that was going on? Well, he actually worked on the Trump campaign,

00:28:26.120 I believe this in 2016. So I think he's probably personally quite bullish on what a

00:28:34.200 chocolate administration would mean for Alberta in terms of getting some of these pipelines built

00:28:39.480 and access to these U.S. markets. Oh, is there a discussion about Keystone? Does he think the

00:28:45.320 Keystone gets put back on the table? It definitely could. He didn't mention it specifically, but

00:28:49.720 there was talk because his portfolio is in corridors. So he's talking about opening up

00:28:53.880 not only to the U.S., but also to Mexico as well, so Keystone would definitely be a part of that.

00:28:59.880 And, yeah, I think he's kind of positive, but at the same time, some other speakers are a little bit worried

00:29:07.880 because Trump is anti-trade, and then Canada can get wrapped up into these trade processes that he has

00:29:16.880 that means China, like, if they were to smack a 10% tariff on every barrel that would come into the U.S.,

00:29:22.880 and what that would be for Canada. So there was talk that having these new pipelines to the coast

00:29:30.400 open up and diversifying away from the American market is itself not that big.

00:29:36.800 What was the discussion around a second Biden presidency?

00:29:41.600 More of the same. Environmental restrictions, caps on industry,

00:29:48.400 You know, IRA, what was it, the Inclusion Reduction Act, subsidies for green energy, and, you know,

00:29:56.780 I think expensive oil industry, whereas a Trump administration would probably see removal

00:30:03.860 of rollback of some of these ED subsidies, more open approach to drilling in Alaska and

00:30:12.580 other parts of Canada, which is kind of a more favorable industry.

00:30:16.720 Corey, I think a second Trump presidency, I think it's fair to say Trump is a more destabilizing factor than Biden.

00:30:31.480 I mean, Biden at this point is just a senile, great, great, like, God, the latest videos of Biden are even more senile than the last.

00:30:40.240 It's got sad.

00:30:40.940 I feel like just non-ideological, non-political, non-partisan, like it's elder abuse what they're doing to this man.

00:30:50.440 He is, like, he's drooling, he can't put a sentence together, we can't say one way or another, but we're not even sure he's continent during major international events.

00:31:03.200 I mean, it is, like, you've got to put this poor old man on an ice float and let him, I've been in office longer than I've been a lot.

00:31:17.720 What do you, do you think there's, I guess it's a bit off topic, is there any chance that Democrats have any way of switching out the candidates?

00:31:26.580 because he hasn't been to convention yet, and if he himself does not accept the nomination,

00:31:32.460 I mean, this is way off topic, but we just got to talk about it, because the guy can't talk.

00:31:37.200 He can't talk anymore.

00:31:38.440 If he doesn't accept the nomination, I think that makes actually the delegates free.

00:31:41.900 They've done free delegates all of a sudden, even though the primaries have happened.

00:31:44.860 If he doesn't accept the nomination, and it's kind of an open convention,

00:31:48.120 and the delegates get to pick a new candidate.

00:31:50.040 I guess if he continues to degrade, it could lead to that be pretty unprecedented.

00:31:54.280 Actually, the idea of convention selecting delegates was actually pretty common until not that long.

00:32:03.000 They're just losing...

00:32:04.040 Sorry, the delegates at conventions selecting the president.

00:32:06.400 Right now, they're bound on first ballot.

00:32:08.280 But after first ballot, I think then they all get released.

00:32:11.480 So if a candidate doesn't accept it, they get to pick their own candidate.

00:32:14.440 Oh, yeah.

00:32:14.940 And the American campaigns, as we know, the presidential campaigns are a year long.

00:32:19.480 It's already halfway through the campaign right now.

00:32:22.160 And to change candidates at this point, I mean, again, if they fear that Biden is truly actually going to be inept by the time voting day comes, they might have to do something drastic that like we haven't seen before.

00:32:35.140 But it would have to be very, very drastic.

00:32:37.600 I mean, Kamala, I mean, that's not going to do it for them.

00:32:42.340 I think they might lose with her too.

00:32:44.140 But Kamala is, you know, far left of the American mainstream.

00:32:48.540 But she can talk. 0.86

00:32:50.400 Yeah.

00:32:50.600 she's not at risk of crapping herself on national television.

00:32:54.040 They should have put Biden to pasture a year ago.

00:32:57.480 I'm sure a lot of them are probably realizing that now,

00:33:00.140 because to change it out this close to election day.

00:33:02.980 Of course, the thing is, too, if the polls continue not to look good,

00:33:05.720 I mean, their internals, I'm sure, paint quite a picture.

00:33:09.000 He shouldn't easily beat Trump.

00:33:10.380 Trump is a dislikable figure to enough mainstream Americans.

00:33:16.260 He should be be-able. 0.90

00:33:18.760 He's been convicted as a felon.

00:33:20.600 I mean, I think it was pretty politicized, but nonetheless, he was convicted.

00:33:26.580 He's done enough that he should be very beatable.

00:33:29.980 But they insist on putting up the cryptkeeper.

00:33:33.740 I don't know.

00:33:35.300 I mean, it's one of those areas I don't like saying because I know it all.

00:33:38.360 That's my thing.

00:33:39.120 But American politics these days, they are foreign to me.

00:33:42.160 I don't see the appeal of Trump.

00:33:43.800 Obviously, there is a strong appeal aside from the weakness of Biden.

00:33:47.680 people really are attached to that weird orange man and he's not going away there's a very good

00:33:53.320 chance he's going to be the next president you know i i guess just pulling it back full circle

00:33:57.400 in places like this when we've got international companies when we got domestic companies this is

00:34:02.580 the right time to have at least those discussions how's your contingency going to work if it's this

00:34:07.460 person versus that person or even i guess that outlier third option might have a different

00:34:12.460 democrat popping out of the works but uh protectionism is always a big area that's a

00:34:17.240 concern. And the Republicans and the Democrats, neither of those parties are really better than

00:34:21.500 the other. If they think protectionism is going to help their campaign, they'll do it.

00:34:24.180 They're both protectionist, just kind of in different ways. They're both protectionist

00:34:27.680 parties at this point. There is no committed free trade, free enterprise party. The Republicans

00:34:33.700 still have probably more of the Democrats. The Democrats are more internationalist than the

00:34:40.860 Republicans who are more nationalist. But Republicans still have a free market wing to

00:34:46.100 party which the democrats don't really have anymore but neither party can stand up and say

00:34:50.740 we're the party of free trade for the party of free enterprise that just doesn't exist anymore

00:34:57.140 the uh nafta 2.0 whatever they call it now i'm still calling i can't i can't make it out

00:35:05.700 so that's coming up for renegotiation in 2026 so there's some talk about trump you know if trump

00:35:13.940 is president you know then there's a good chance that uh that'll be ripped off north american free 0.94

00:35:18.660 trade you know what i'm calling it right now cheese i want the cheese gods to save us from

00:35:25.220 our own cheese mafia in canada the cheese the milk and cheese mom you and i are the only ones

00:35:30.100 who care about supply management we keep trying to make that an issue but you know i i'm going

00:35:35.380 off topic again here but paulia cannot look canadians in the eyes on the camera and say

00:35:43.140 I care about inflation. I care about cost of living, but I'm also going to protect the milk

00:35:48.600 market. I am going to protect the cheese curd cartels and keep the price of dairy products

00:35:57.340 three to 400% higher than it should be in a free enterprise market because of a couple thousand

00:36:05.800 votes mostly in Quebec. NAFTA negotiations is where that could fall. Because every time we have

00:36:13.980 trade negotiations anywhere in the world, we have to make massive concessions somewhere else to

00:36:19.220 protect the milk mafia. And, you know, like, you know, Trump can say, I'm going to slap a 10%

00:36:27.140 tariff on your oil, or we're going to have free trade in cheese and milk. And that could be it.

00:36:34.680 I mean, I don't know.

00:36:36.560 What do you think the chances are he comes after the Milk Mafia that we actually might finally relate? 0.91

00:36:40.980 Oh, that's probably a very good chance.

00:36:43.280 He could be doing Canadians a favor by making it up.

00:36:46.060 But they also made the point, like Corey was saying, Biden has relative stability.

00:36:50.980 You know, you kind of know what he stands for, right?

00:36:53.380 Whether or not it's good for us or not.

00:36:55.720 No, you don't know what he's saying.

00:36:56.900 He makes it possible by Twitter.

00:36:59.100 You're going to wake up one morning and it's...

00:37:00.580 Biden is barely a lot.

00:37:01.600 like he's he's like a walking uh i guess it's just a general democrat direction

00:37:08.060 he's an institution biden doesn't really exist at this point no biden's not even alive

00:37:14.480 the ship is on cruise control there's a bidenism that could be re-elected with a guy plugged into

00:37:20.300 a machine like like on star trek pike red light means no green light yeah god that's oh wow 0.71

00:37:30.220 It's sad how close to the truth that might be.

00:37:32.740 You kids don't know what he's talking about.

00:37:34.240 It's way before even my time.

00:37:36.240 I'm enough of a truckie.

00:37:37.260 I know what we're talking about.

00:37:38.880 That's a meme.

00:37:39.440 Okay, we've got to remember that for off here.

00:37:40.800 I think that's a meme that makes sense.

00:37:45.500 And, you know, I just feel, I actually kind of feel bad for a fight.

00:37:48.380 I never thought I'd feel bad for the guy, but I feel bad for him at this point.

00:37:51.440 It's beneath his dignity, what they're doing, putting him out there.

00:37:54.700 Old presidents of this age, they're put on a nice float,

00:37:57.460 giving a nice presidential library to...

00:37:59.980 And the only reason he's running is basically against Trump.

00:38:03.320 He's running because I think the Democratic institution is quiring.

00:38:06.640 I think they're afraid that if he's not running, the presidential nomination gets captured by the radical left.

00:38:13.760 Well, they follow their own...

00:38:14.800 He's not just not radical left. He is just the Democratic Party doing whatever on autopilot.

00:38:20.060 If he's gone, the radical left stands a very good chance of capturing the Democratic nomination.

00:38:24.600 And then they definitely lose the chance.

00:38:25.920 well they've got their work cut out for them and what they got to do pragmatism versus hanging on

00:38:31.440 it'll be interesting to watch and i mean that's where again it shows the the importance i guess

00:38:36.640 just to trying to use the crystal balls for business leaders for our political leaders

00:38:40.700 because you got a number of scenarios that could happen the worst of all though is trump because

00:38:44.520 let's face that guy is unpredictable you just don't know what and that's what i get worried

00:38:49.640 about too though is and from our federal leadership there's nothing we can do here but

00:38:53.240 Trudeau, thankfully, has been a bit quiet about it lately, but he likes to antagonize Trump.

00:38:58.220 Trump is a vindictive man.

00:38:59.900 He holds grudges.

00:39:01.460 And even though the grudge should be against Trudeau, unfortunately, the fallout will be against Canada.

00:39:06.400 And that's our biggest trading partner.

00:39:08.040 It's a serious business.

00:39:09.300 Well, if we're lucky, his anger gets directed towards the milk mafia, and we get affordable dairy products.

00:39:15.280 If there's the concession, then, yeah.

00:39:16.920 Oh, we're so sorry.

00:39:18.040 We have to give up 400% tariffs on our milk.

00:39:21.940 And then hopefully hide the oil industry and kind of slip it under the rug and say, oh, yeah.

00:39:26.040 Yeah, I want to be in the background.

00:39:27.060 We'll take care of that fuel stuff later.

00:39:29.520 Yeah.

00:39:30.980 Okay.

00:39:31.500 Well, let's wrap it up there.

00:39:35.420 We're having a lot of...

00:39:36.380 This is an interesting event.

00:39:37.980 I can't believe I've never been to it.

00:39:39.960 I mean, as long as I've been in California, I've never actually been to this thing.

00:39:43.800 And it's a huge event.

00:39:45.800 I came in today before the exhibition area opened up.

00:39:48.660 I came down to the Western Standard section we've got.

00:39:50.600 And they had to get someone to help find it for me.

00:39:55.100 You can't walk around and just find something.

00:39:57.000 It takes you all day long.

00:39:58.100 There's over 500 exhibits, I think.

00:39:59.600 Yeah.

00:40:00.100 And as I said, you don't know who I had to kill to actually get a booster.

00:40:03.100 And it's always a dry run from Stampede.

00:40:05.100 Yeah.

00:40:06.100 Yeah, yeah.

00:40:07.100 Because you've got the tourists downtown and Stephen Avenue is full.

00:40:10.600 We're on the Stampede grounds here.

00:40:13.600 This is the new BMO Centre.

00:40:15.100 It's worth mentioning.

00:40:16.100 this is the very first event of what i believe is now canada western canada's largest uh enclosed

00:40:22.500 convention center uh it's got an interesting point to note on the architectural design of

00:40:27.220 that i do as i discovered yes so we have a 350 000 square feet just in the exhibition area what

00:40:34.020 we're in and all of this and as i circled it hiking after drinking my morning coffee i discovered

00:40:39.060 they did not put a single washroom in the entire exhibition area you have to leave the secure zone

00:40:44.340 go into the concourse and use the bathroom when when when there's bigger

00:40:49.140 events down the road there again half a billion dollars on this guys and you

00:40:53.520 didn't think to put a crapper in the thing man you need to open a puppet here

00:40:58.260 oh well I think I saw somebody coming in on X and they said you know it's the

00:41:02.640 perfect time for ACCO to come in as a display or you're talking about stick

00:41:06.060 one of their trailers here that they stick on rail sites and so on yeah right

00:41:09.000 in there you need to use one we've got it covered for you guys and you know

00:41:13.520 You know, good advertising for their services.

00:41:15.380 Yeah, that's right.

00:41:18.220 Yeah.

00:41:19.620 Corey, Sean, thanks for joining today.

00:41:22.560 Thank all of you for joining us.

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Western Standard - June 13, 2024

Smith shuts down the War Room

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