Western Standard - October 21, 2022


SNP EP7： Tom Marazzo's time in Ottawa & the Emergency Act Inquiry

Topics
mob mentality
Mentioned
Jim Watson Tamara Justin Trudeau Brendan Miller Chris Barber Alex Epstein Rex Murphy Bill Blair Doug Ford Justin Trudeau Doug Chrystia Freeland John Brennan Fossil Future James Patterson Kristen Nagel Laura Lynn Tamarilich Dwayne
Cory celebrates BC's electoral move to the right AHS is to blame for our problems

Episode Stats


Length

55 minutes

Words per minute

178.26

Word count

9,918

Sentence count

56

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

5

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

On this episode of the Western Standard, I am joined by Tom Marazzo, who served 25 years in the Canadian Forces. He is a retired military officer who served with the Joint Commission on Public Order and Emergency Preparedness (JCCF) and has been involved with the Public Order Emergency Commission (PUEC) for the past 22 days.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 good evening and welcome to the sean newman show on the western standard tonight we're talking
00:00:14.880 public order emergency commission that is a mouthful and i'm joined by tom marazzo so first
00:00:20.800 off tom i'll let him into the room here uh thanks for hopping aboard tonight yeah thanks for inviting
00:00:27.560 Now, I want to make a, you know, when we're talking about something that's going on for the next six weeks, roughly,
00:00:34.060 I want to make sure the audience knows we're recording this at the end of day four with our schedules and everything else going on.
00:00:40.320 It's been a little difficult.
00:00:41.720 So as more things come out, so people understand, I can't talk to them because we've recorded it a night or two before this is released,
00:00:50.020 just so people are aware.
00:00:51.320 So day four just finished happening on October 18th.
00:00:54.900 But tonight, I thought one-on-one, Tom, and honestly, I haven't got to do this with you on the podcast.
00:01:00.920 You've been on my list of people to slowly bring across and do on the podcast.
00:01:05.740 I thought we might kick it podcast style for the Western Standard, which is normally I introduce the guest on the Western Standard.
00:01:12.460 I thought maybe we'd start with Tom giving us who Tom is, and we'll go from there.
00:01:17.260 Yeah. So I did obviously participate in the convoy back in January, February. I brought here with a, I came here to Ottawa. I was asked a couple of days after the convoy had already arrived through a mutual friend who, you know, one thing led to another.
00:01:36.800 i got on the phone with somebody from canada unity james botter um three hours later i was
00:01:41.980 standing in ottawa uh in the arc hotel it actually did happen that quickly because i at the time was
00:01:48.300 living uh just outside of kingston ontario so by the time i packed a bag and uh got cleaned up
00:01:55.420 and uh and drove here i was here within three hours of that initial phone call but the convoy
00:02:00.580 been here for two days and um it was i was asked to to take the original phone call because the
00:02:08.420 intention was to just provide some logistical advice because i'm a retired military officer
00:02:14.020 and uh so you know what i thought initially would be just to give some advice on the phone turned
00:02:20.100 into uh 22 days of being on the ground here in ottawa and um you know we you know my role did
00:02:28.820 evolve uh over time when we started to bring in more people uh into the arc hotel where we were
00:02:36.100 all working out of uh you know start building relationships but the situation started to
00:02:41.300 fundamentally um change as well so we had to you know people's roles started to change uh and then
00:02:49.380 my role started to change and then the the lawyers from the jccf uh and keith wilson um from his law
00:02:56.900 from who is is on contract with the jccf they arrived and um you know things on a daily basis
00:03:04.820 you kind of never knew what you were going to get in on a daily basis but um you know we we
00:03:10.580 we work together as a pretty good and effective team of people from all different walks of life
00:03:17.540 everything from uh truckers i mean even me i'm an unemployed now um software teacher at a at a
00:03:25.300 college in barry ontario um i was fired because i i didn't really appreciate that the the stance
00:03:33.700 that the college i was teaching at in barry ontario and georgian college uh was taking with
00:03:38.500 regard to the um vaccine mandates and masks and all that kind of stuff i cared less about the
00:03:44.740 mass than i did sticking a experimental uh injection into my body uh for money which is
00:03:51.300 is my paycheck. And I was fired for cause because I sent a email to the president and approximately
00:04:01.420 250 other faculty members objecting and questioning the legality of this mandate that the college
00:04:10.300 came out with. So, you know, put it all together. And next thing you know, I'm, you know, 10 months
00:04:16.940 later i'm sitting in ottawa participating in the uh the inquiry uh i'm currently sitting in ottawa
00:04:23.800 and i've been attending the uh the testimony uh or all the cross examinations uh since the beginning
00:04:29.380 on thursday well before we get to the the testimonies and everything else because i was
00:04:34.700 just saying to you before we started like i've been trying to keep tabs on it because i i am like
00:04:39.020 glued to it when i have time but as you know i was just saying three kids under six and and uh
00:04:45.080 certainly doing the full-time podcast and everything else I'm trying but it's it's you
00:04:48.240 know it's like eight nine hours a day so it's uh it's a commitment yes when you go back uh I think
00:04:55.500 25 years in the military correct yes 25 did you ever think you would end up walking into that
00:05:02.580 room because I remember when you walked in the room Tom and I I remember the atmosphere if you
00:05:07.160 will changing a little bit like here's somebody who's at least comfortable in this situation
00:05:11.400 because there was a ton of people there that had the best intentions um but not crisis management
00:05:18.280 or or as you would uh but in your career did you ever think you were gonna be like i mean nobody
00:05:25.240 could foresee this coming yeah but is there anything even remotely close come to this
00:05:32.920 uh it's a great question um i i guess the answer is yes and no
00:05:39.000 uh nothing obviously i've never in my life did i ever even attend a protest
00:05:47.240 um you know and i have sort of more philosophical reasons why i've never done it but also
00:05:54.760 in terms of covid i have a vulnerable um you know one of my children has an extensive medical
00:06:01.080 history so i i didn't want to be around large crowds and then knowing that i would have to go
00:06:06.200 near him so i wanted to be very very extremely cautious about his health and you know taking
00:06:11.880 the chance that i could end up getting it's not just coveted um any sort of a respiratory illness
00:06:18.440 could be dangerous for my child so um you know there was that aspect why i never participated
00:06:24.760 in another protest but then when i got to ottawa uh i have to say that this kind of a thing
00:06:31.880 i don't want to say that it's it's custom made for an army officer to to integrate into because
00:06:39.240 you know this is not an army this is not a um it's not a not even a company you know like an
00:06:45.720 intern in terms of like a corporation or an organization of business uh where there's a
00:06:50.760 leadership structure and there's employees and there's you know already well established uh
00:06:56.440 social norms and also well-established um you know procedures within the company and how they
00:07:03.400 do business is nothing like that this was a completely organic uh movement of of very
00:07:09.320 patriotic canadians that came to ottawa with the mission of ending all federal mandates and so
00:07:16.680 you know they they got to ottawa in and i think that the thinking at the time was we'll figure
00:07:21.240 it out when we get there but let's just get there and and so this is kind of where i got kind of
00:07:27.480 called into the picture it was kind of like listen we are getting there uh we physically got there
00:07:33.560 but we're we're still trying to logistically get ourselves a little bit sorted out so
00:07:38.520 for for somebody with my skill set um or any officer in in the in the canadian army
00:07:45.080 this would have been a something that we could have easily dealt with in terms of understanding
00:07:53.340 the logistics problems and less so maybe understanding the the social dynamics and
00:07:58.720 the social interactions that we went through because you got to remember I wasn't signing
00:08:03.100 anybody's paycheck I didn't have command authority over anybody like people could just tell me to get
00:08:08.860 lost and I'm not listening to you or why, why should I? So, you know, you, you had to have,
00:08:14.460 um, the ability to work with people in a high stress, complex environment. And,
00:08:19.600 and I think that, you know, a lot of my training and just maybe my personality,
00:08:23.960 I was able to do that. And, um, you know, they're, they're one thing that I've repeatedly
00:08:30.480 reminded people, I would say between five and 10 times a day is that look,
00:08:34.460 we don't have any emergencies so so just take a breath calm down uh relax let's think through
00:08:41.560 this problem we're not in a hurry here uh we don't have any emergencies only the emergency
00:08:46.720 services people in the city are the only ones who actually have emergencies we've got all the time
00:08:51.060 in the world so we can think it through and make really good decisions on on how to be both safe
00:08:56.560 and responsible uh and so i think a a big part of what i did was to try to try to keep people calm
00:09:04.080 and put them in a position to look at factors and make reasonable deductions that led to
00:09:09.900 what I had hoped sound decisions on our part you know I think it was a different guest on
00:09:17.780 the podcast who brought up he had military background and come from the army I mean
00:09:22.160 yeah and so he'd been in situations that were you know gunfire and and things that are like
00:09:28.800 you know dangerous and he said sitting in Ottawa he had to remind himself that you had a bunch of
00:09:33.760 civilians, that had never been in a situation even remotely
00:09:38.100 close to what went on there. And he had to remind himself that
00:09:42.820 almost daily, if not multiple times a day. Would you agree
00:09:46.240 with it? I mean, I'm kind of leaning on what you just said.
00:09:49.100 But yeah, I mean, I'm not a combat veteran, but I trained
00:09:52.200 for combat missions my whole life, right? And my whole adult
00:09:56.820 life. That's what you do in the military. The military is a huge
00:10:00.160 post-secondary institution of perpetual training for war. And so, you know, you're right. You had
00:10:08.900 to remind yourself that, you know, you've got the best well-intentioned Canadians that are here
00:10:17.720 supporting the convoy, but they don't think in a, in a, in a, it's, these problems are not
00:10:25.940 easy problems to confront if you don't have training in operating in a very complex,
00:10:33.740 stressful, high-tempo environment. So from that perspective, I think the people that were here
00:10:41.260 did exceptionally well. And the evidence to that is the last two days when we saw all these people
00:10:49.200 didn't retaliate with violence um they kept their heads they stayed the course their their intention
00:10:56.800 was still to end the mandates but to do it in a peaceful way uh and they didn't let the chaos
00:11:03.600 lead them towards a violent outcome the only violence that was in the city was from the
00:11:08.240 police they're the ones who brought violence not the protesters and and so you're right you're not
00:11:14.240 dealing with soldiers you're dealing with civilians uh but for a group of civilians i think they did
00:11:20.320 phenomenally well under these very difficult cold weather uh conditions yeah you ever get a group of
00:11:29.280 those people out in a in a combat action uh in minus 40 i think the canadians would do just fine
00:11:34.800 because everybody seemed to just embrace it and move forward absolutely you bring up something
00:11:39.600 Tom that I was actually literally just having a conversation earlier today on and that is you know
00:11:45.000 why was there no violence you know like you get that many people there and I would agree with the
00:11:51.700 person earlier today that on the way up there the level of anger was huge but something started to
00:11:58.480 dissipate the closer you got to Ottawa and once you're in Ottawa and you had everybody come
00:12:02.360 together and that good feeling and unity and blah blah blah blah blah and yet there was thousands
00:12:07.360 upon thousands of people there put into extreme circumstances where at times the fear was pumped
00:12:16.880 into there even more so than anything i've ever experienced uh why do you think i don't know if
00:12:23.040 you have the answer i don't know if anyone can answer it but why did nobody break the line you
00:12:27.040 know like all of a sudden just lose their absolute top because i mean right to the end it's one of
00:12:31.280 the magnificent things of it everybody stares at it like how did everybody keep their head there
00:12:35.360 well i i think there's two good reasons for that personally one is as you know from being here
00:12:43.540 which he doesn't translate at all through a screen through your your phone or through video
00:12:49.560 was the raw emotion of love and unity that we all experienced here so you know there's there's
00:12:59.900 The contrary emotion to love is said to be fear.
00:13:05.280 And there was this overwhelming emotional feeling of love in this city and unity and peace throughout the entire time that I think it was just far too powerful to be taken over by fear and thereby the fear resulting or leading to violence.
00:13:23.380 So that's one big reason. And I think the second big reason was it was exceptional Canadians like Tamarilich and Chris Barber and Bridget and all of the other people that had a social media presence that the public was listening to that were consistently preaching peace.
00:13:41.380 and you know it that message was always conveyed uh through through anybody who was was streaming
00:13:49.920 um the actual situation on the ground here it was a consistent message for for the entire time
00:13:56.960 and when you were here it was an easy message to believe because you felt it on a on a highly
00:14:03.200 spiritual religious and emotional level so there was no opportunity for the fear to give way to
00:14:10.020 to the violence on our side um it wasn't until the police showed up and i think that that lingering
00:14:18.520 emotional connection to uh to what it meant to be a canadian and to love your your your countrymen
00:14:24.980 was just too powerful to uh to lose out to fear and that's what i believe it's a very um
00:14:33.360 insightful uh look at it tom and you'd have a very good seat you know being there
00:14:39.240 uh where you sat for as many days as you did um i had a moment i had i actually had a moment um
00:14:46.920 you know this you've heard the the expression mob mentality psychologically that is a real
00:14:51.800 phenomenon that happens within a crap within a mob uh in the day that um the two people were
00:14:58.280 run over by the horses i was standing right there and there was something inside of me
00:15:04.680 that i realized i was starting to succumb to this this mob mentality even though the mob there was
00:15:12.280 no mob it was just a collection and i i mean i trained for war for 25 years uh and i there was
00:15:19.160 something in me that said okay i've had enough now i want to fight i physically want to fight
00:15:24.440 and then i i got a hold of myself it only lasted me maybe a you know 10 seconds and i realized what
00:15:30.440 was happening to me and i knew that um i needed to get myself out of that situation before even
00:15:38.200 i did something stupid and and the reason i was so easily able to snap out of it was because that
00:15:44.440 crowd set that example from even me you know i'm you know i i do krav maga i i was an instructor 0.98
00:15:53.320 in in krav maga you know a black belt in krav maga i trained for it for years i did martial
00:15:57.560 arts my whole life uh i do not fear any any person on this planet and i i knew that i everything that
00:16:07.480 i had ever trained for in my life was was starting to come into a focus that was wrong uh that was
00:16:14.600 not helpful to the situation so i literally did a 180 and i walked away from the entire crowd and um
00:16:21.400 And I went and I was re-embraced, I think, with all of the peace from the protesters further up Wellington.
00:16:29.280 But it's a real phenomenon, and I have to acknowledge it because, you know, in my position, I felt that I was losing control, but I was re-inspired by the crowd.
00:16:42.040 I just had to acknowledge it, refocus, accept the leadership of the crowd, and then walk away.
00:16:49.440 and i think that that's something that's incredibly rare
00:16:52.080 i would agree um on the mob mentality i know a lot of uh friends that were worried about me
00:16:59.820 going there was exactly that like you get there and uh i mean we just got to look at uh um i i
00:17:08.040 always think of vancouver when they lost in the stanley cup finals and the mayhem that broke out
00:17:12.500 there right and you're just like what is going on right um so it's in there and the thing you're
00:17:18.900 talking about i certainly experienced i know a ton of people that went there and experienced you
00:17:22.900 know i was talking with one guy today who showed up basically uh the last day that went on and he
00:17:29.300 took his kids and the next day they were driving around and he said you know how this was a peaceful
00:17:34.820 protest you can tell he goes look at all the windows like we're driving around and i'm like
00:17:41.860 you know that's very true right like i mean to try and put it into context for people you know
00:17:46.980 you think of some of the protests that went on and it doesn't matter which ones when it gets violent
00:17:52.820 everything gets burned looted at least at least one police car gets torched at least absolutely
00:17:58.340 everything right not one happened here no and and he when he brought it up i'm like you're
00:18:04.340 absolutely right like i mean uh the uh the thing that shocked me well not shocked me the thing that
00:18:11.780 sticks out to me you know as you you've been talking is one of the things i wrote down is
00:18:15.220 you never attended a protest that was the other thing that i found very fascinating about the
00:18:19.220 group of people who showed up in ottawa is uh certainly i i went to my first protest after
00:18:25.940 talking to brian peckford yeah about two weekends before in edmonton just to see it you know i was
00:18:31.060 like this is what peckford says gotta happen all right i'm going so i went and i was like huh this
00:18:36.100 just this is just isn't it like this isn't gonna change anything and then trucks started going and
00:18:41.220 i talked to obviously chris barber and when you showed up in ottawa you're like oh this is it like
00:18:47.140 yeah this is this is where it's at yes and and you know i um i remember once i i belonged in
00:18:54.420 this one little simple chat group of really uh great people um i'm still in that actual telegram
00:19:00.260 group and uh it's actually called well i won't say what it's called but uh it's a it's a great
00:19:05.860 group of people and i remember about a year and a half ago um i i put on this kind of little lesson
00:19:12.500 on on how to do deductive reasoning in order to make a good solid plan uh in case you didn't feel
00:19:18.740 like you could you could stay at your home anymore um that maybe you had to bug out of your place or
00:19:24.500 you had to come up with a plan because in those days in the early days things were getting really
00:19:28.820 really dark um lockdowns um different things that were happening and people were getting
00:19:36.580 you know started to prepare you know this is the the uh the absolute emergence of the doomsday
00:19:42.900 prepper and i remember doing a thing for a group of people online saying look it's it's i can't
00:19:49.460 make a plan for each and every one of you uh because there's too many different scenarios
00:19:54.020 but what i can do is teach you how to think about doing a a plan for yourself i can teach
00:20:02.420 you how to do deductive reasoning consider you know you look at the factors the considerations
00:20:08.500 make a deduction create a task and then do up a solid plan and so you know i had the skills i had
00:20:15.780 the thinking but what i remember telling people was that the challenge was what we're doing right
00:20:23.060 now is that we we don't you know if we were going up against the taliban or you know the german army
00:20:29.060 or you know some some enemy we would know what their tactics are what their training is what
00:20:35.140 their procedures are what's their doctrine but in this particular case we we didn't know who
00:20:40.820 our adversary even was uh and and you know now we talk about the world economic forum a lot of this
00:20:47.460 this come to light in the last 18 months but we we just didn't know who was who who's the adversary
00:20:53.780 how do you plan for something that when you don't even your your adversary stays in the shadows
00:20:59.380 and manipulates through through the government and so when you you look at that whole sort of a
00:21:05.140 context um it was very difficult for me and on a personal level i stayed the gray man i stayed silent
00:21:13.540 i stayed um you know out of public view of any kind i wasn't one of these people like danny
00:21:20.900 uh bulford or krista nagel i i you know i wasn't political i wasn't like maxine bernier or um you
00:21:28.500 know any of these other other people that have have come along before tom or as i ever got onto
00:21:34.260 the scene uh i was hiding in the background literally as the gray man knowing that someday
00:21:39.540 maybe i'll get my opportunity to protect my family and the important thing that i'm trying to get to
00:21:44.740 and i'm sorry it's taken so long to develop this point but the moment i saw that convoy and i was
00:21:50.820 invited to participate unquestionably instantly immediately i recognized it for the opportunity
00:21:57.380 for what it was for me to actually finally get into this uh into this fight and um do what i
00:22:05.060 felt needed to be done and that's why you know i went from a phone call to a commitment within 15
00:22:10.740 minutes of driving to ottawa although i'd never participated in any kind of a protest before in
00:22:17.300 my entire life i just recognized the opportunity that was put in front of me for what it was
00:22:23.060 and i seized it and i don't regret it to this day well i appreciate you sharing the lovely thing
00:22:28.580 about a podcast style feel tom is you can go for as long as you want the reason i brought you on is
00:22:33.700 is to get you talking right because i i want to hear some of your thoughts and some of your
00:22:37.540 experiences and everything else um the uh the seeing the opportunity uh i think a lot of people
00:22:45.940 felt that calling uh to drive you know i think about it you know like canada is
00:22:54.420 not the most habitable place i'll say especially during that time and especially when everybody
00:22:59.780 went on one road across some of the worst highway uh the earth has to offer yes and um and yet there
00:23:07.940 was a ton of people that felt an opportunity had presented itself and it was time to go and we saw
00:23:14.500 i mean i i speak from uh seeing it along the highways you know people stand out minus 40
00:23:19.700 on the highways and there was thousands upon thousands on it was something you can never
00:23:23.940 forget never you can't i mean maybe if the men in black come down and wipe my brain maybe then
00:23:29.460 but after that like i don't know how you ever forget anything like that and certainly ottawa was
00:23:34.660 uh the same way one one thing i was curious about you know after ottawa you've uh i don't know what
00:23:40.740 what it's called a list whatever you're on it you're not allowed to be um you know an association
00:23:45.380 with like tamara and different folks on that how tough has that been or is that just uh another
00:23:50.100 thing in the the because i mean you know for for it was only 27 days yeah but it probably felt like
00:23:57.940 a lifetime uh and under the the the pressure that it was you get to know people extremely well
00:24:06.340 uh and to be you know split apart from all those people not knowing if ever you get to talk to them
00:24:11.540 again without legal ramifications how difficult has that been well uh it's been a lot less
00:24:17.700 difficult for me than i would say for tamara lich because as you know she was incarcerated for 25 days 0.99
00:24:24.980 for um you know the crown attorney for the city of ottawa went after her because she appeared in
00:24:31.720 a photograph with me uh and was seen on video bending over for three seconds while i congratulated
00:24:39.620 her on a speech that she had just given and and you know the background story to that is tamara
00:24:45.840 was charged but i was not charged so i don't have any conditions so what you're referring to are
00:24:51.060 bail conditions. And Tamara was the recipient this year for the George Jonas Freedom Award
00:24:58.860 that this is the 11th year that they put this on through the Justice Center for Constitutional
00:25:04.640 Freedoms. So, you know, the keynote speaker for that was Rex Murphy. Maxine Bernier was there.
00:25:10.900 A lot of Conrad Black was there in attendance that night. And this was a dinner. We confirmed
00:25:17.380 because Tamara's bail conditions say that she cannot go near me or Chris Barber or any other
00:25:22.380 people unless in the presence of her attorney, our attorney. So not only was it our law firm
00:25:30.460 that was sponsoring the dinner, but the head of the JCCF was sitting beside Tamara.
00:25:38.220 In between us was Tamara's husband, Dwayne. And, you know, there was hardly any interaction
00:25:44.660 between tamara and i because tamara's you know um an extremely popular person i mean she's the guest 0.86
00:25:53.140 of honor uh so everybody every moment of the dinner that there was an opportunity we're coming
00:25:58.580 up and doing selfies with her and meeting her and thanking her and so you know the the idea that she
00:26:04.420 went she spent 25 days in jail i mean the how absurd it is is that the crown attorney originally
00:26:11.380 sought to put her in jail just because she publicly accepted the award that she didn't ask 0.55
00:26:19.220 for. But she accepted the award, the Freedom Award, the George Jonas Freedom Award. By virtue
00:26:25.160 of accepting that award, the Crown Prosecutor tried to have her thrown in jail for violating
00:26:30.060 her bail conditions. Okay, this is the absurdity. And I remember saying to Rex Murphy the night in
00:26:35.460 the dinner that uh the the irony of the night was that the least free person in the entire room that
00:26:42.520 night was the guest of honor tamara lynch right and and so you know this is the absurd uh world
00:26:51.680 of justin trudeau that that we all live in right now and you know chris barber um does not have
00:26:59.120 conditions where he could be in my presence um even though he was charged so some of the people
00:27:04.740 tamara's bail conditions she doesn't even know who they are so how they got on that list is kind
00:27:09.780 of a mystery to everybody else um but you know this is this is the thing like they have i think
00:27:17.700 chris and tamara and many of the others that have been charged have also got i think eight different
00:27:22.260 charges um and we've seen the crown attorney go through extraordinary measures to do things that
00:27:28.820 have never been really done before which is to have a a canada-wide warrant for her arrest because
00:27:34.340 she appeared in a in a photo because of a uh uh a violation of her bail conditions like that's 1.00
00:27:44.020 virtually unheard of i'm no law enforcement officer or or lawyer but every every police
00:27:49.540 officer i spoke into about it they're just like dumbfounded it's like how could they have issued
00:27:54.260 a canada-wide warrant on a breach of a bail condition like they don't even do that for
00:27:59.700 rapists in this country but they went after tamara lich or leech sorry i keep saying it wrong um
00:28:07.700 because she appeared in a photograph and when she walked past me i congratulated her on one
00:28:12.100 of the best speeches i've ever heard somebody deliver um you know so the can the the it's not
00:28:19.460 for me that there's a challenge but it is a challenge for other people i mean tamara
00:28:23.780 is not allowed to speak to the media she's not allowed on social media
00:28:26.980 and yet it's it seems strange to me that these are all very punitive and yet she's not been
00:28:34.060 convicted of anything she's only been charged right and she spent a total of 49 days in jail
00:28:39.960 for what exercising her charter to right to peacefully assemble this is the state of Canada
00:28:47.360 because of the likes of Justin Trudeau Doug Ford Jim Watson all of these these politicians that
00:28:55.180 that believes that their their birthright is to lord over the people of this country
00:29:01.020 as opposed to serve them uh based on election i i loosely say results but you know they were
00:29:08.700 elected to be representatives not to be kings and queens but they conduct themselves as if though
00:29:14.140 they are well how i don't know i i don't know the right word to be honest is it excited are you
00:29:24.060 interested whatever it is uh maybe you can explain in your own words uh with this you know this
00:29:29.740 commission coming about doing the inquiry into the the emergency act being uh put in play during the
00:29:37.580 end of the protest were you yeah i've been waiting i've been waiting since the day i left ottawa for
00:29:45.980 for this uh commission to start um now you know to be clear and i've and i've known this the entire
00:29:52.780 time that um there is no there's no charges that are going to be laid there's no um uh well i mean
00:30:03.260 i i i want to be careful when i say that but the intent is not to convict the government
00:30:08.540 of canada or any representative it is not to um you know force the resignation i mean it's under
00:30:17.500 second section 63 of the legislation when you invoke the emergency act you must convene a an
00:30:23.580 inquiry into the steps that led to this and also you know produce a report exactly one year to the
00:30:29.660 day that the the uh revocation of the emergency act so this process does have to happen and it is
00:30:38.540 not something that is going to result in criminal charges being laid if if justice relo determines
00:30:44.060 in the end after hearing all this testimony that that justin trudeau was wrong and what he did
00:30:49.500 uh it's not meant to do that unfortunately although i know that myself and many people
00:30:53.980 would like to have seen that but that's the reality is that that's not what is going to
00:30:58.380 happen but what is going to happen is uh that the truth is going to come out about what happened
00:31:06.060 and for canadians that are interested and i and i just did a an interview that this evening with
00:31:11.420 laura lynn uh and i had this kind of thought as in the middle of the interview um we've noticed
00:31:19.180 a significant almost uh invisible uh presence of mainstream media they're not here they're not
00:31:24.620 covering it and and so i think that that actually creates a very good opportunity for all of us
00:31:30.940 especially for for people in your position um if the mainstream media is not here covering this
00:31:37.820 then they don't get to lie right they they're not here covering the story they're not talking about
00:31:42.860 it they're completely uh it's almost a media blackout on what's happening in this commission
00:31:48.300 which is good because it opens an opportunity for people in your position to do these kinds
00:31:54.060 of podcasts and get the truth out there because when there's the absence of the the liberal
00:31:59.420 funded media then there's also the absence of the lying other than what you hear on some of
00:32:04.460 of the testimony like people like Jim Watson. So if there's nobody lying about it in the media
00:32:08.700 because they're not here covering it, well, that opens up an opportunity for people like you to
00:32:12.880 tell the truth. The only challenge is that middle 40% of Canadians that are undecided or great
00:32:19.300 consumers of the mainstream media, the onus is on them now to go out and seek alternative media to
00:32:25.100 find out what's going on. And we've all been in chat groups and on Twitter and on social media,
00:32:31.440 and we've been talking about um making sure that we're we're we're spreading what is happening in
00:32:39.120 the testimony to get people interested in and to tune in and and listen to the testimony that is
00:32:44.880 is meant to either justify or not justify what the government of canada did to his own people
00:32:50.800 and the level of violence that they brought to us even though on day four you already have heard
00:32:55.920 the testimony that that is unequivocally proven that this was unjustified we're on day four and
00:33:01.280 i think there's 39 days of this and we already know we've already heard the testimony that's
00:33:05.520 completely damning to justin trudeau um for for the audience uh on the podcast set at least i'll
00:33:12.640 put it back in the show notes but like you can go to and i'm spacing on the uh uh forgive me it is
00:33:19.120 freedom just second now public order emergency commission dot ca yes you go there you can
00:33:26.800 literally watch the live stream all day long you know and i know a ton of people are you know on
00:33:31.840 the road working out in the cold blah blah blah blah and nobody's going well i got eight hours
00:33:35.760 but like honestly you flick into it and and get a feel for what's going on it has been i wish
00:33:43.360 i could sit and watch it for nine straight hours because at times it's actually really uh
00:33:48.640 eye-opening into some of the things obviously you know they're trying at times they're trying
00:33:52.800 to paint it as you know evil and and these mean people and blah but it's almost humorous to hear
00:33:57.600 them talk about uh hot tubs and you know like these different things that is almost laughable
00:34:03.760 when you talk about the one uh testimony though that is already uh i don't know day four condemning
00:34:11.280 what do you talk about tom so people know if they haven't tuned in okay so today we heard um
00:34:16.320 um well I had to leave the uh I I left the um the hearing today uh or the Commission today around
00:34:24.060 just after two o'clock um Jim Watson from 9 30 in the morning till at least two o'clock when I left
00:34:30.480 was still giving testimony was being cross-examined by uh started off with the the uh the Commission
00:34:36.480 and then of course um every other group that are in attendance were given the opportunity to to
00:34:43.200 examine him and and for the listener uh if they don't know who jim watson is that's the mayor of
00:34:48.400 mayor of ottawa yeah yeah um and and i gotta say like so yesterday we heard testimony from uh to
00:34:56.560 to the uh the city manager um everyone excuse me refers to him as just steve k because he's
00:35:03.840 got a greek last name it's kind of tricky to pronounce uh and then the chief of staff to
00:35:08.720 mayor watson and their testimony was was just brilliant because although they did not like the
00:35:15.360 convoy being there um i think they were very righteous civil servants that were there to
00:35:20.160 to do the right thing for their city um you know they gave extremely uh truthful professional uh
00:35:30.720 honest testimony that was for me was a little bit of a surprise um in a sense that it was so
00:35:41.040 forthright uh and you know they were they were willing to focus vigorously on the truth contrast
00:35:49.680 that to the garbage that we heard from uh mayor jim watson today um i felt like i had gone back
00:35:55.600 in time nine months and was listening to somebody regurgitate mainstream media talking points but 0.97
00:36:01.840 even amplify the lies sorry it was incredible to me to listen to the rhetoric come out of this man's
00:36:11.600 mouth what are some of the things you're talking about tom what what sticks out uh to you about
00:36:16.240 what what the mayor was talking about oh that uh people were were ripping ripping uh residents
00:36:22.160 masks off their face uh that safety lanes were all blocked and we heard the testimony that completely
00:36:27.520 uh disputed that today from uh kim ayotte who he is the um the emergency service yeah
00:36:36.080 kim was great and i met him uh while i was in ottawa in one of the meetings that i was with
00:36:40.640 and you know this guy was results focused he's not a political guy and when kim gave his
00:36:46.960 testimony he confirmed that they never had an issue with safety lanes in this city the entire time
00:36:52.720 you know so it's it was nice to see at least kim's testimony where he confirmed what we
00:36:58.240 had been saying all along and then you get somebody like um uh the mayor jim watson who
00:37:05.360 uh just sorry thank you very much uh keith wilson extraordinaire just handed me a glass of water
00:37:12.480 because he heard me uh coughing it up coughing it up and um so listening to uh jim watson i i you
00:37:23.360 know this is the most bizarre thing that i've yet to hear about the convoy in relation to the give
00:37:28.800 send go he actually made the assertion today that in the the give send go had accumulated roughly
00:37:36.240 about uh three million dollars at that point and he made the actual bizarre assertion honestly that
00:37:44.080 we were just um canadians were coming to ottawa because they were they thought that they could
00:37:51.000 get a piece of that three million dollars like that was their motivation to come to ottawa to
00:37:56.220 support the convoy was just so they can get a piece of that three million like i i don't i don't
00:38:02.040 what planet this guy lives on uh but it's not the same one i'm on but you know he's he i listened to
00:38:08.680 a lot of his testimony because he was up there for quite a while and um you know at the 17 minute
00:38:15.400 mark i was i was just disgusted um with the things that i was hearing him say you could see where he
00:38:22.280 was going and he gave testimony where uh brandon miller our guy our our lawyer who's a brilliant
00:38:29.400 man um was was asking questions and there was one thing that he actually there was two things that
00:38:40.760 he actually said that stuck out for me watson alluded to the fact that they were really happy
00:38:45.400 they were the beneficiaries of the emergency act because the emergency act was used to legally
00:38:51.160 compel tow truck drivers to clear out those trucks so i brandon looked at him and said wait a minute
00:38:57.000 uh did you basically just say that you're you're you're happy you got the ea so that you could get
00:39:03.340 tow trucks right so that was a really bizarre moment but the the second thing is brandon said
00:39:09.300 to him uh they they had talked about the constant communication between the mayor and the prime
00:39:15.560 minister's office and then he said um did you know that they were going to invoke the emergency act
00:39:22.460 and he immediately said no and i and i thought you know what my my bs radar just went off like crazy
00:39:29.900 there's no way that you could have had the level of integration if communication into the pmo's
00:39:36.460 office or the sorry the pmo um and not have had some sort of a indication that the emergency act
00:39:45.260 was was going to be invoked and you could see because there's this letter between uh
00:39:50.700 jim watson and tamara um that was was leaked to the public ahead of time um where there was an
00:39:57.980 agreement between us and and it was clear to me that that jim watson was playing both sides
00:40:03.980 i i believe in in my opinion i don't have any evidence to support it but my belief
00:40:09.980 is that jim watson knew the emergency act was being going to be invoked i also know for a
00:40:16.140 fact because we heard it in the testimony that the um the pmo uh in the pm himself bill blair
00:40:23.820 rcmp all of them knew that we had a deal with the city to start moving trucks we did have that deal
00:40:30.460 and they all knew about it but they still chose violence over peace and um so you you can't you
00:40:38.140 know when you you listen to watson's testimony it's it's to me it's very uh it's very credible
00:40:45.180 to draw the conclusion that he knew the emergency act was going to be invoked and that's why he was
00:40:50.300 hedging his bets on both uh scenario because there was some testimony to suggest that um
00:40:56.060 that uh justin trudeau was kind of waffling on on certain decisions doug ford wanted nothing to do
00:41:03.420 with this uh this protest that came out today because now you're seeing both watson who's a
00:41:09.100 true liberal and justin trudeau who obviously the leader of the liberal party they're actually
00:41:14.540 attacking doug for today after doug ford actually stood in a press conference and said he stole
00:41:19.180 stood shoulder to shoulder with uh with justin trudeau and then at the end of the day justin
00:41:24.780 trudeau said well doug ford was hiding from his responsibilities actually used the word hiding
00:41:30.620 you know this is this is just the the level of of insanity uh that we had to endure the entire time
00:41:39.580 we're here and i'm just excited the fact that all this is being exposed i just want to see the the
00:41:46.140 uh the canadian public that are either on the fence or didn't support the convoy i want them
00:41:51.340 to tune in and listen to what's going on and hear it from themselves it's not about being
00:41:56.060 right or wrong it's about getting to the truth yeah you you uh you bring up a lot of good points
00:42:04.620 there uh i i caught uh much of the the mayor's uh testimony today and then a bit of the the
00:42:13.020 the second man of the emergency services uh thank you yeah yeah and uh once again i i uh
00:42:21.660 i just find if if you're an average person and you're like why do i want to tune into this
00:42:26.700 yeah listen i'm a guy that for like a hundred straight episodes talked nothing about
00:42:31.340 anything else but covid and brought on all these different people and then went to ottawa and i find
00:42:38.300 this is like the story behind the story because here they are on oath and certainly they can lie
00:42:43.580 i mean they can certainly they can i mean whatever but overall majority of them are giving them
00:42:49.180 giving you their account and they're getting interviewed by so many different people
00:42:53.180 you know i don't how many how many councils are up there there's 14 there's 14 different groups
00:42:58.060 that have standing um so on average it seems like you it's about 10 10 different groups that'll take
00:43:04.140 a shot at you like that have the the right to ask the question and the way it works is uh the the
00:43:11.260 the government actually uh the the lawyers for the commission they actually get a set amount of time
00:43:18.620 so let's say for example uh they get two hours that they've asked for to to cross-examine a
00:43:24.300 witness the remaining lawyers have to they get an equal amount of time but they have to divide it up
00:43:31.660 so it's not like we get two hours to cross-examine because the commission lawyers got two hours it's
00:43:37.180 like no all of the other 13 groups have to divide up uh two hours so we don't even get a large
00:43:44.540 portion of the the time to to um defend ourselves or start to cross-examine other witnesses now
00:43:52.380 those uh the amount of time is all kind of pre-arranged or agreed to uh between the the
00:43:57.980 commission lawyers and the rest of the lawyers they kind of how that process works i don't know
00:44:02.860 how they set the time but uh it's it's really it's quite interesting and the other interesting
00:44:09.260 thing about this process is there's no um a lot of the evidence we've heard so far is basically
00:44:15.100 hearsay right so that's why you're not hearing objections you know you don't hear a lawyer
00:44:20.060 yellow objection you don't hear say like you would see on tv that that's not what this process is
00:44:24.940 about right this is this is about fact finding and getting to the truth it's and that's why all
00:44:29.740 this anecdotal evidence is is just being kind of uh bypassed it's being allowed uh but the judge's
00:44:37.020 job is to to do two things he assigns he listens to each witness and he assigns uh credibility
00:44:45.180 uh to the witness and what he views as sort of truthfulness to what that witness is saying
00:44:51.020 so you know you and i could both go on there and give um you know we saw the exact same thing we
00:44:57.660 we we saw a person walk down the street you give your account and i give my account it's up to the
00:45:03.580 judge to see which one is uh because i could say no he ran down the street you say he walked down
00:45:08.620 the street it's up to the judge to say uh i believe this person over that person and assign
00:45:14.300 a higher value to that and that's really what his his role is uh in that and to kind of manage the
00:45:20.620 clock and in the direction and in the rules and stuff like that so it's a very different process
00:45:25.900 than what you would expect to see and the other thing is i mean a witness it's unusual for a
00:45:29.580 witness to be cross-examined by 10 different lawyers right uh it's a very different process
00:45:35.500 that's what i was going to say what you think uh you're like oh this will just be boring but when
00:45:43.180 they're just trying to lay out the series of events some of it you're like yeah okay whatever
00:45:48.060 right yeah but when you get 10 different people up there tom it's like this is this is kind of
00:45:54.460 like strange and fun all at the same time because obviously you know it's no different than yourself
00:46:00.700 sitting in that seat and getting interviewed probably 10 different times by 10 different
00:46:04.540 people the conversations have a different feel every single time yes and some people are just
00:46:09.340 really good at it and then there's some lawyers that kind of bumble around you're like well this
00:46:12.860 is a train train wreck you know but at the same time um to have somebody on stand you know and
00:46:19.100 i'll go back to the mayor this morning for as long as he was it's a long time to keep the charade up
00:46:24.220 talking to that many different people well you know he's going to sleep well tonight
00:46:29.580 right he's gonna he probably went home he's probably in bed all right already feeling like
00:46:33.660 he ran a marathon is my guess you know my my slogan for the last year has always been the truth is
00:46:41.020 easy you know you just tell the truth it's easy you don't have to track lies you just tell the
00:46:45.740 truth and i mean that is the the guiding principle that that helps you get through what you're saying
00:46:50.780 you just tell the truth but i think for him he's going to probably go home and do an after action
00:46:56.620 review of everything he said and he's going to toss and turn all night uh or he's going to be 0.97
00:47:02.220 you know uh the opposite and sleep like a baby because he's so skilled at being a liar 0.98
00:47:07.660 and yes i don't i have no issue saying that the man's a liar i don't 0.94
00:47:13.020 well what days are you i mean you're probably looking forward to every single day but you got
00:47:16.780 a day circled on the schedule tom uh is it your day you're up do you even know what day that is
00:47:22.060 i don't know yeah i don't know the days that we are up uh like there's a like different groups of
00:47:28.140 people um that kind of have their witnesses and and obviously you know myself and tamara and chris
00:47:34.780 and all the others uh when we get our chance to testify so our group let's say the the freedom
00:47:40.460 court group or the uh the convoy group i think is the group that is second last and then it is the
00:47:49.100 federal government so justin trudeau and his cabinet uh ministers will be the very last group
00:47:55.180 that will be cross-examined um and i and that's kind of a tough thing to reconcile in my mind
00:48:02.220 because they're going to have six weeks to have their legal team sitting there preparing
00:48:06.740 and coming up with viable justifications or excuses, except Christopher Freeland, because
00:48:14.720 she never answers questions anyway, so they'll just give her a pass. 0.94
00:48:18.900 But, I mean, you're giving somebody a six-week advantage to come up with really good, justifiable
00:48:26.460 excuses for your actions now had they been cross-examined first then we could have we could
00:48:33.680 have um sort of but i i don't do the strategy right i'm not the lawyers building the strategy
00:48:39.460 i don't know how they feel about it this is my own personal opinion not the legal team that uh
00:48:44.060 maybe it's maybe it's maybe it's the the opposite though tom maybe it's like when you're back in
00:48:48.240 class and you got group presentation and you're like you know what i'll just hold it to the last
00:48:52.960 except your nerves get the best of you and by the end you can't even talk and you should have just
00:48:56.200 went first and got it out and been done with it like who knows yeah maybe psychology this uh works
00:49:00.680 the opposite way i mean i don't think any of us really expect to get much out of justin trudeau
00:49:06.440 bill blair i think mendesino's in there uh freeland like i don't do any of us expect that
00:49:12.980 all of a sudden they're going on stage and like big things are going to come up no no no i don't
00:49:17.780 i the the bar is set very low for them right um but it's the people in between that you just never
00:49:24.180 know when they get up there and they get caught in something they're trying to say or what have
00:49:29.220 you i mean who knows where it comes from yeah well i mean and this is the other this is the opposing
00:49:34.180 argument too uh and again i you know i i don't do strategy around here i'm here to provide answers
00:49:40.500 uh when asked questions but um the the opposite is true is like uh you've got six weeks of
00:49:47.780 testimony you better be careful on on how you answer because people are going to call you out
00:49:54.100 so well wait a minute that doesn't jive with what mayor uh watson said are you sure that that's you
00:50:00.180 know um because now you're getting into a situation where there's the potential to uh to perjure
00:50:06.020 yourself right and so i guess the the flip side is also true um but again i'm not i'm not the
00:50:13.060 legal masterminds you got you know keith wilson eva basheba um alan from the democracy fund in
00:50:21.060 in you know brendan miller like you've got some pretty brilliant minds that uh you know i'm
00:50:27.060 privileged to to be around uh every day during this and um we're gonna see how it goes right
00:50:34.020 and and i know i like watching uh brendan because we uh we refer to it as miller time you know like
00:50:41.140 the old beer commercial it's miller time when he gets up to the microphone because he's got just a
00:50:45.300 very different uh approach a different style than all the other lawyers that he gets up there right
00:50:50.020 and uh if anyone you know dean blundell went after me on on something as he usually does
00:50:55.860 him and i banter back and forth um that uh you know he said that uh brendan he made a comment
00:51:05.220 about brendan's style and i'm like don't forget the punchline comes at the end right you gotta
00:51:11.780 set up uh you gotta set up the story to really nail the the punchline home and i sit here and
00:51:18.020 i listen to brendan and as far as i'm concerned he's setting up a phenomenal punchline and that's
00:51:24.020 how it's gonna go well it's uh i i assume uh you know when it when it comes to lawyers this is their
00:51:32.260 super bowl or stanley cup or whatever you whatever you want to call it um i just look at it and i go
00:51:38.100 i can just imagine they're having a hard time sleeping because they're they're constantly in
00:51:42.020 prep mode and going through the day's events and blah blah blah blah blah i i i get it and they
00:51:48.260 have other cases too right like keith is working in the next room on a different case altogether
00:51:53.380 and keith and eva both have the peckford thing coming up shortly uh so they're going to be in
00:51:58.580 you know both in the peckford uh lawsuit as well as participating in this um so that's another
00:52:05.060 challenge that they this isn't their only case that they're working on right uh so no you're
00:52:10.980 right they're not sleeping i can tell you for a fact because i'm living with keith right now
00:52:15.220 uh in other like we're all kind of spread all over uh and i can tell you keith doesn't keith
00:52:20.500 doesn't sleep anyway tom's going tom is going he's probably staring at you going can can you tell
00:52:25.700 sean to wrap up so i can think again as i got you just yeah yeah yeah exactly well i am gonna let
00:52:32.100 you go because i don't want to hold you here all night i know you guys got long days and certainly
00:52:36.020 knowing uh keith sitting in the room i don't want to take up a a ton of time and and you know i have
00:52:40.580 no idea i i always think my voice is just booming on that side but anyways um that's beside the
00:52:46.100 point is there something else is there anything else you want to leave with the listener today
00:52:50.180 uh after day four of of the commission uh going along is there anything you want the
00:52:55.860 the audience to pay attention to or any final thoughts yeah you know what i would like to
00:53:00.740 for the audience to do um find your friends that have not been interested or not paying attention
00:53:08.580 or not participated in any of the uh watching this and ask them to tune in and listen uh and
00:53:16.100 spread the word and assume that you're going to learn some really enlightening truths about what
00:53:23.220 really went on in the streets of ottawa uh we get through this when we all know the truth
00:53:29.140 and there's never going to be a better opportunity than this to learn what really happened in the
00:53:34.420 streets and and what the decisions were that everybody made on either side of this um so tell
00:53:40.180 your friends to to tune in and pay attention because mainstream media is not doing it
00:53:45.220 they'll only do it if it's a hit a hit piece that supports the lies um go to alternative media
00:53:51.700 listen in and learn about what's going on well i appreciate you tom uh uh hopping on and doing this
00:53:59.540 and i think you know uh assuming you're up for it i think what i'm probably going to do is i'm
00:54:04.340 going to lean on you in the weeks to come you know because this isn't uh two days and she's done like
00:54:08.900 this is a long long haul if you're if you're going to be a guy in the room i would love nothing more
00:54:13.780 to have you come back on and maybe break down uh some of the things because uh like i i was saying
00:54:19.060 earlier today you know i i and i may have said it at the start of this is like i want to watch it all
00:54:24.500 but uh it's long it's long and uh it's not that it isn't even enjoyable to listen to it's actually
00:54:30.500 for my where i sit i'm like wow this is really really intriguing um but the truth of the matter
00:54:36.020 is day after day um all of us have certain obligations that are going to make that
00:54:42.260 difficult and to have somebody there watching everything paying attention i think the audience
00:54:46.660 would uh love nothing more than to have tom back on to break down some of what's going on you know
00:54:51.380 week to week or you know every second week whatever it is either way tom i'd love to have
00:54:55.140 you back on absolutely i'd be happy to come back awesome thanks tom yeah thank you sean
00:55:05.060 you can become a western center member for just 10 a month or 99 a year for unlimited access
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